{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":0.15,"endTime":2.85,"body":"Artificial"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":0.15,"endTime":2.85,"body":"intelligence, not that long ago, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2.85,"endTime":6.54,"body":"term conjured up images of sentient"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2.85,"endTime":6.54,"body":"robots and self-driving cars."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":7.02,"endTime":9.45,"body":"And while some of these visions"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":7.02,"endTime":9.45,"body":"of an AI future have yet to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":9.45,"endTime":13.8,"body":"materialise, an AI-saturated world"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":9.45,"endTime":13.8,"body":"is now very much the reality."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":14.49,"endTime":16.1,"body":"But what exactly is AI?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":16.77,"endTime":20.13,"body":"Practically speaking, there is no"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":16.77,"endTime":20.13,"body":"universally accepted definition."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":20.73,"endTime":23.37,"body":"But what is often being talked"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":20.73,"endTime":23.37,"body":"about are recommender systems"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":23.37,"endTime":24.87,"body":"and machine learning algorithms."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":25.44,"endTime":29.7,"body":"With near automation, these tools make"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":25.44,"endTime":29.7,"body":"predictions, recommend courses of action,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":29.91,"endTime":32.13,"body":"or simply make processes more efficient."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":32.73,"endTime":35.82,"body":"The progression in AI has opened"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":32.73,"endTime":35.82,"body":"doors we never thought possible"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":35.97,"endTime":37.35,"body":"in every single industry."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":38.055,"endTime":39.645,"body":"But does AI belong in sport?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":40.185,"endTime":44.145,"body":"From customisation of the fan experience"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":40.185,"endTime":44.145,"body":"to predicting the next draft talent,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":44.565,"endTime":48.015,"body":"advocates point to its ability"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":44.565,"endTime":48.015,"body":"to harness troves of data and the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":48.015,"endTime":51.945,"body":"potential for faster, more objective"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":48.015,"endTime":51.945,"body":"and more accurate decision-making."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":52.725,"endTime":56.625,"body":"Meanwhile, detractors emphasise"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":52.725,"endTime":56.625,"body":"the dehumanisation of sport and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":56.625,"endTime":59.745,"body":"the looming threat of job losses"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":56.625,"endTime":59.745,"body":"as AI replaces human labor."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":60.435,"endTime":63.405,"body":"Those in the know, perhaps take"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":60.435,"endTime":63.405,"body":"bigger issue with the potential for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":63.405,"endTime":67.965,"body":"systemic, and often prejudicial,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":63.405,"endTime":67.965,"body":"bias to be built into AI's very core."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":68.715,"endTime":71.325,"body":"So what, if any, are the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":68.715,"endTime":71.325,"body":"limits for AI in sport?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":71.985,"endTime":75.735,"body":"Will it help to achieve new levels of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":71.985,"endTime":75.735,"body":"exciting, never-before-seen game play?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":75.735,"endTime":80.055,"body":"Or will too much cause sport to no"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":75.735,"endTime":80.055,"body":"longer be considered \"sport\" at all."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":80.79,"endTime":81.9,"body":"I'm Sam Robertson."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":82.26,"endTime":84.01,"body":"And this is One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":84.73,"endTime":90.48,"body":"Hello and welcome."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":90.62,"endTime":95.15,"body":"One track, mind a podcast about the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":90.62,"endTime":95.15,"body":"real issues, forces and innovations"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":95.15,"endTime":96.8,"body":"shaping the future of sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":97.28,"endTime":100.7,"body":"Actually today, I wish you all a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":97.28,"endTime":100.7,"body":"particularly special welcome as it marks"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":100.7,"endTime":102.59,"body":"our very first episode of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":103.47,"endTime":104.82,"body":"I'm your host, Sam Robinson."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":105.21,"endTime":108.57,"body":"As a professor of sports analytics"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":105.21,"endTime":108.57,"body":"at Victoria University in Melbourne"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":108.57,"endTime":112.289,"body":"Australia, and as one of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":108.57,"endTime":112.289,"body":"directors of Track, a large portion"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":112.289,"endTime":113.97,"body":"of my life revolves around sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":114.72,"endTime":117.449,"body":"I consider myself very fortunate"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":114.72,"endTime":117.449,"body":"to be able to spend a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":117.479,"endTime":121.199,"body":"reading, writing, and thinking about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":117.479,"endTime":121.199,"body":"some of the most pressing issues"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":121.199,"endTime":122.85,"body":"currently facing the industry."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":123.57,"endTime":127.11,"body":"Each episode, I'll be exploring some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":123.57,"endTime":127.11,"body":"of sport's biggest questions alongside"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":127.11,"endTime":131.73,"body":"two expert guests, as we try to flesh"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":127.11,"endTime":131.73,"body":"out what is the future of sport?"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":132.525,"endTime":137.445,"body":"artificial"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":132.525,"endTime":137.445,"body":"intelligence in sport - help or hindrance?"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":138.285,"endTime":139.545,"body":"My first guest is Dr."},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":139.545,"endTime":140.355,"body":"Ellen Broad."},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":140.865,"endTime":144.495,"body":"Ellen is a senior fellow at the 3A"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":140.865,"endTime":144.495,"body":"Institute at Australian National"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":144.495,"endTime":148.845,"body":"University, which focuses on everything"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":144.495,"endTime":148.845,"body":"from advanced robotics and autonomous"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":148.845,"endTime":151.305,"body":"cars, to smart grids and machine learning."},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":151.875,"endTime":154.725,"body":"Ellen has spent more than a decade"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":151.875,"endTime":154.725,"body":"working in the technology sector"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":154.755,"endTime":160.065,"body":"across Australia, the UK and Europe, in"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":154.755,"endTime":160.065,"body":"leadership roles spanning policy standards"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":160.095,"endTime":165.25,"body":"and engineering for organisations"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":160.095,"endTime":165.25,"body":"such as CSIRO's Data 61, the Open Data"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":165.25,"endTime":170.4,"body":"Institute in the UK, and as an advisor"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":165.25,"endTime":170.4,"body":"to UK cabinet minister Elizabeth Truss."},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":170.65,"endTime":174.4,"body":"She's a frequent keynote speaker and"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":170.65,"endTime":174.4,"body":"writer on AI governance issues, and"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":174.4,"endTime":179.71,"body":"is the author of the much awarded 2018"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":174.4,"endTime":179.71,"body":"book 'Made By Humans: The AI Condition'."},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":180.1,"endTime":183.67,"body":"Ellen is also the co-designer of a"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":180.1,"endTime":183.67,"body":"board game about open data that is"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":183.67,"endTime":185.89,"body":"now being played in 19 countries."},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":186.19,"endTime":189.55,"body":"I'm really interested to hear about how"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":186.19,"endTime":189.55,"body":"someone very much at the cutting edge of"},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":189.55,"endTime":192.55,"body":"AI sees its future as it relates to sport."},{"speaker":"On this episode, we're asking","startTime":193.06,"endTime":194.47,"body":"Ellen, thank you so much for joining us."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":194.89,"endTime":196.12,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":194.89,"endTime":196.12,"body":"so much for having me."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":197.11,"endTime":199.93,"body":"So before"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":197.11,"endTime":199.93,"body":"we get into any topic in great"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":199.93,"endTime":203.29,"body":"detail, I think it's important"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":199.93,"endTime":203.29,"body":"that we talk about AI itself."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":203.41,"endTime":206.2,"body":"I've lost track of the number of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":203.41,"endTime":206.2,"body":"different ways I've heard it described,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":206.2,"endTime":209.26,"body":"and you probably are the same,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":206.2,"endTime":209.26,"body":"but I also heard some reasonably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":209.26,"endTime":212.74,"body":"strong arguments to suggest that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":209.26,"endTime":212.74,"body":"the term is in fact problematic."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":213.09,"endTime":216.329,"body":"I noticed the way you describe"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":213.09,"endTime":216.329,"body":"AI in your recent book 'Made By"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":216.329,"endTime":219.45,"body":"Humans' is quite similar to what"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":216.329,"endTime":219.45,"body":"I outlined in the introduction."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":219.9,"endTime":222.0,"body":"Is this still how you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":219.9,"endTime":222.0,"body":"would define it today?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":222.81,"endTime":223.88,"body":"Yeah, pretty much."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":223.91,"endTime":229.25,"body":"It's been two years since the book was"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":223.91,"endTime":229.25,"body":"published, and I think my advice remains,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":229.25,"endTime":233.209,"body":"to anyone speaking about artificial"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":229.25,"endTime":233.209,"body":"intelligence, is to ask for a more"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":233.209,"endTime":236.45,"body":"specific term to describe what they're"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":233.209,"endTime":236.45,"body":"doing because there typically is one."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":238.3,"endTime":240.97,"body":"I mean, do you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":238.3,"endTime":240.97,"body":"have a view on what those buckets"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":240.97,"endTime":243.79,"body":"outside of that would be, for example,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":240.97,"endTime":243.79,"body":"is it prediction that you're talking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":243.79,"endTime":247.27,"body":"about, is it automation, is it machine"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":243.79,"endTime":247.27,"body":"learning, or do you have a view on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":247.27,"endTime":250.81,"body":"that or is it really quite a continuum"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":247.27,"endTime":250.81,"body":"rather than a classification per se?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":251.73,"endTime":253.32,"body":"I think it's a continuum."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":253.38,"endTime":256.92,"body":"I remember somebody telling me"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":253.38,"endTime":256.92,"body":"a useful way of thinking about"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":256.92,"endTime":260.49,"body":"artificial intelligence is that it's"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":256.92,"endTime":260.49,"body":"whatever a computer can't do yet."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":260.935,"endTime":265.165,"body":"Because as soon as it is something"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":260.935,"endTime":265.165,"body":"a computer can do we give it a name,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":265.344,"endTime":271.675,"body":"like machine learning or virtual"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":265.344,"endTime":271.675,"body":"reality or drones or robotics,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":272.215,"endTime":274.135,"body":"and a lot of these terms overlap."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":274.765,"endTime":279.545,"body":"And often, when we're talking"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":274.765,"endTime":279.545,"body":"about artificial intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":280.435,"endTime":285.395,"body":"we're usually using it to refer to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":280.435,"endTime":285.395,"body":"things that involve the replacement"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":285.395,"endTime":286.925,"body":"or augmentation of human labor."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":287.165,"endTime":291.335,"body":"So I like your use of the word"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":287.165,"endTime":291.335,"body":"'automation' just then, because I"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":291.335,"endTime":295.835,"body":"think quite often where we get really"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":291.335,"endTime":295.835,"body":"kind of excited about it and where"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":295.835,"endTime":301.54,"body":"it preoccupies media debate, policy"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":295.835,"endTime":301.54,"body":"discussions, the sense of innovation"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":301.54,"endTime":308.83,"body":"and disruption, is where we're proposing"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":301.54,"endTime":308.83,"body":"to automate processes using different"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":309.31,"endTime":315.88,"body":"computational techniques that once they"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":309.31,"endTime":315.88,"body":"are implemented, get their own name."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":316.18,"endTime":322.0,"body":"So I like the, we call it AI"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":316.18,"endTime":322.0,"body":"when it's something that a"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":322.0,"endTime":323.29,"body":"computer can't quite do yet."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":324.125,"endTime":325.765,"body":"I haven't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":324.125,"endTime":325.765,"body":"heard that and I quite like it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":325.784,"endTime":328.455,"body":"And I think that's something I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":325.784,"endTime":328.455,"body":"might, I might use in the future."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":328.995,"endTime":332.625,"body":"Just as you were speaking there, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":328.995,"endTime":332.625,"body":"thinking about perhaps the preoccupation"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":332.625,"endTime":336.974,"body":"we have with the future application"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":332.625,"endTime":336.974,"body":"of AI, and it was kind of inherent in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":336.974,"endTime":339.945,"body":"your answer then that maybe the media"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":336.974,"endTime":339.945,"body":"does tend to focus on things that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":339.945,"endTime":341.445,"body":"maybe aren't really a problem yet."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":341.895,"endTime":345.825,"body":"Do you think that it's useful to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":341.895,"endTime":345.825,"body":"still keep our eye on those bigger"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":345.825,"endTime":348.195,"body":"picture things, particularly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":345.825,"endTime":348.195,"body":"as they affect us ethically and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":348.195,"endTime":349.795,"body":"us as a society moving forward?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":349.795,"endTime":352.805,"body":"Or is it okay just to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":349.795,"endTime":352.805,"body":"talk about automation?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":352.805,"endTime":355.875,"body":"Do we need to keep our eye on that,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":352.805,"endTime":355.875,"body":"particularly in the broader society"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":355.875,"endTime":358.635,"body":"for the implications it has for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":355.875,"endTime":358.635,"body":"us, particularly with our privacy,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":358.815,"endTime":362.265,"body":"ethics, automation, which could"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":358.815,"endTime":362.265,"body":"lead to job losses, is it premature"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":362.265,"endTime":364.635,"body":"to worry about that yet or is it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":362.265,"endTime":364.635,"body":"something we should be talking about?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":365.175,"endTime":368.415,"body":"So the founder of our"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":365.175,"endTime":368.415,"body":"institute, distinguished Professor"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":368.415,"endTime":372.495,"body":"Genevieve Bell, who's like a kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":368.415,"endTime":372.495,"body":"very famous digital anthropologist,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":372.495,"endTime":375.315,"body":"said something to me while I was"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":372.495,"endTime":375.315,"body":"writing 'Made By Humans' a few years"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":375.315,"endTime":379.975,"body":"ago, where she said that the fears"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":375.315,"endTime":379.975,"body":"that we have about technologies, are a"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":379.975,"endTime":382.485,"body":"reflection of long-standing human fears."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":382.965,"endTime":389.115,"body":"Fears of being irrelevant, fears of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":382.965,"endTime":389.115,"body":"being replaced, fears of losing agency."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":389.775,"endTime":397.335,"body":"And those have been a part of how we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":389.775,"endTime":397.335,"body":"approach the business of work, how we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":397.335,"endTime":402.315,"body":"approach leisure, how we approach our"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":397.335,"endTime":402.315,"body":"relationships with governments, in"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":402.315,"endTime":406.215,"body":"ways that predate the current suite"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":402.315,"endTime":406.215,"body":"of technologies that we call AI."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":406.275,"endTime":411.315,"body":"And I think perhaps the comment that"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":406.275,"endTime":411.315,"body":"I'd make is: it is not that we should be"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":411.315,"endTime":414.525,"body":"more afraid of artificial intelligence."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":414.914,"endTime":420.025,"body":"It is that the level of fear we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":414.914,"endTime":420.025,"body":"have, I think, is a healthy one,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":420.055,"endTime":423.995,"body":"that forces us to have conversations,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":420.055,"endTime":423.995,"body":"perhaps not about the role technology"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":423.995,"endTime":427.205,"body":"plays in our lives, but about our"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":423.995,"endTime":427.205,"body":"relationship to things like labor."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":427.505,"endTime":429.724,"body":"Like what does it mean"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":427.505,"endTime":429.724,"body":"to do meaningful work?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":430.265,"endTime":435.034,"body":"What does it mean to have the ability"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":430.265,"endTime":435.034,"body":"to challenge decisions made about you?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":435.604,"endTime":440.304,"body":"So, I think we're starting to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":435.604,"endTime":440.304,"body":"move into those conversations and"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":440.304,"endTime":445.705,"body":"away from Elon Musk's \"What about"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":440.304,"endTime":445.705,"body":"the AI that takes over the world"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":445.705,"endTime":447.835,"body":"generating strawberry fields forever\"."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":448.825,"endTime":450.354,"body":"I think we've moved past that."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":450.625,"endTime":453.174,"body":"And we're now starting to talk"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":450.625,"endTime":453.174,"body":"about it more in terms of humans."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":453.825,"endTime":455.655,"body":"It's interesting"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":453.825,"endTime":455.655,"body":"that response, cause it picks up on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":455.655,"endTime":458.864,"body":"something else I wanted to talk to you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":455.655,"endTime":458.864,"body":"about, which is really related to this in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":458.864,"endTime":464.46,"body":"terms of whether it's an education problem"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":458.864,"endTime":464.46,"body":"and whether we need to raise a literacy,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":464.46,"endTime":468.18,"body":"so to speak, of people's understanding of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":464.46,"endTime":468.18,"body":"not only AI, but technology in general."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":468.52,"endTime":471.51,"body":"I'm reminded of the old Carl Sagan"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":468.52,"endTime":471.51,"body":"quote about, you know, how we've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":471.51,"endTime":474.18,"body":"got this kind of society that's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":471.51,"endTime":474.18,"body":"completely reliant on technology,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":474.18,"endTime":475.739,"body":"but no one understands how it works."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":476.159,"endTime":479.71,"body":"Now that's what, 40 years ago"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":476.159,"endTime":479.71,"body":"now, but it's the same with AI."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":479.76,"endTime":484.62,"body":"But I wonder just with your response"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":479.76,"endTime":484.62,"body":"there, it may be less important that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":484.81,"endTime":487.63,"body":"people are aware of how it all works"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":484.81,"endTime":487.63,"body":"and more important about what the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":487.63,"endTime":491.52,"body":"implications are for them, and in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":487.63,"endTime":491.52,"body":"terms of the biases that are built into"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":491.53,"endTime":493.12,"body":"certain machine learning, for example."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":493.12,"endTime":497.02,"body":"And a question I'm really  fascinated"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":493.12,"endTime":497.02,"body":"with, for example, is bias in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":497.02,"endTime":498.55,"body":"algorithms versus bias in humans."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":498.55,"endTime":502.0,"body":"Obviously bias is everywhere and in any"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":498.55,"endTime":502.0,"body":"types of decision-making or judgment"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":502.0,"endTime":506.2,"body":"and I think it seems to be those bigger"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":502.0,"endTime":506.2,"body":"questions that you just raised are far"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":506.2,"endTime":510.52,"body":"more important than maybe having a better"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":506.2,"endTime":510.52,"body":"understanding or high literacy levels"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":510.52,"endTime":512.26,"body":"in the public of what AI actually is."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":512.76,"endTime":515.58,"body":"I guess"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":512.76,"endTime":515.58,"body":"you made two points there."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":515.61,"endTime":517.11,"body":"I might tackle them in reverse order."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":517.11,"endTime":520.35,"body":"Cause I'm really keen on what it's been"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":517.11,"endTime":520.35,"body":"like for you working in sports and how"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":520.35,"endTime":526.38,"body":"you approach the kind of literacy versus"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":520.35,"endTime":526.38,"body":"comprehension of implications issues."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":526.38,"endTime":529.8,"body":"Cause you've worked with cutting"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":526.38,"endTime":529.8,"body":"edge technologies in sports where"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":529.8,"endTime":531.06,"body":"you must face into these everyday."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":531.06,"endTime":533.07,"body":"So I'm really keen to hear"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":531.06,"endTime":533.07,"body":"how you've managed it."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":533.61,"endTime":537.15,"body":"But just quickly, working back"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":533.61,"endTime":537.15,"body":"from the bias issues, like it's"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":537.15,"endTime":541.745,"body":"completely true that we have bias in"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":537.15,"endTime":541.745,"body":"the technical systems that we use in"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":541.745,"endTime":545.345,"body":"the same way that we as humans have"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":541.745,"endTime":545.345,"body":"manifested bias in different ways."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":545.765,"endTime":550.325,"body":"What I get frustrated about is"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":545.765,"endTime":550.325,"body":"the kind of false equivalence"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":550.325,"endTime":552.285,"body":"that we place between those two."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":552.465,"endTime":556.745,"body":"Like, well, humans are biased, so if"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":552.465,"endTime":556.745,"body":"our technology is biased they're just"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":556.745,"endTime":558.515,"body":"replacing another kind of human bias."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":559.025,"endTime":563.435,"body":"Because one of the things that is"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":559.025,"endTime":563.435,"body":"very different about the design of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":563.435,"endTime":567.885,"body":"technical systems is that our systems are"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":563.435,"endTime":567.885,"body":"designed to scale as technical systems."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":568.275,"endTime":573.915,"body":"So that something that I design in"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":568.275,"endTime":573.915,"body":"Canberra, Australia could be deployed in"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":573.915,"endTime":578.655,"body":"every state and territory in Australia"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":573.915,"endTime":578.655,"body":"and in other geographical jurisdictions."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":578.685,"endTime":584.835,"body":"So whatever I've put into that, could be"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":578.685,"endTime":584.835,"body":"applied to more people in more contexts"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":585.165,"endTime":590.175,"body":"than I could reach as me, Ellen Broad,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":585.165,"endTime":590.175,"body":"deciding what athlete is fit to play."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":590.505,"endTime":593.565,"body":"So that's why it's just really important"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":590.505,"endTime":593.565,"body":"that we're talking about these issues"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":593.565,"endTime":600.484,"body":"in technologies with great seriousness,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":593.565,"endTime":600.484,"body":"because where a system is not working as"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":600.484,"endTime":605.645,"body":"intended, where it has error, where it is"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":600.484,"endTime":605.645,"body":"manifesting certain kinds of bias towards"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":605.795,"endTime":611.405,"body":"certain societal groups, for example, the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":605.795,"endTime":611.405,"body":"effects at scale can be more devastating."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":611.405,"endTime":615.635,"body":"So I think that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":611.405,"endTime":615.635,"body":"why it is rightly such an"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":615.635,"endTime":617.104,"body":"area of focus at the moment."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":617.584,"endTime":622.069,"body":"To your point about literacy, the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":617.584,"endTime":622.069,"body":"thing that I think about is there"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":622.069,"endTime":625.699,"body":"are so many things in my life that I"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":622.069,"endTime":625.699,"body":"genuinely have no idea how they work."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":625.88,"endTime":628.1,"body":"Like I have no idea how to wire my house."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":628.52,"endTime":630.319,"body":"I have no idea how to build a house."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":630.319,"endTime":631.73,"body":"I have no idea how to make clothes."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":631.79,"endTime":637.33,"body":"I have no idea how to do most of the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":631.79,"endTime":637.33,"body":"things that I rely on day to day,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":637.36,"endTime":639.079,"body":"which are all forms of technology."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":639.92,"endTime":643.375,"body":"We kind of now just talk about"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":639.92,"endTime":643.375,"body":"technology as being cutting edge"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":643.405,"endTime":649.405,"body":"computer systems, but technologies"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":643.405,"endTime":649.405,"body":"extend to sewing and cooking and house"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":649.405,"endTime":651.685,"body":"construction and vehicle manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":651.925,"endTime":654.445,"body":"And it's not that I need to know"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":651.925,"endTime":654.445,"body":"how any of those things work."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":654.475,"endTime":657.745,"body":"I don't know how to take a car apart and"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":654.475,"endTime":657.745,"body":"name every part and put it back together."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":658.045,"endTime":661.755,"body":"But I know the sounds it's"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":658.045,"endTime":661.755,"body":"making when it's not working."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":662.055,"endTime":666.194,"body":"And I know the instinctive levels"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":662.055,"endTime":666.194,"body":"of distrust I get when I take it to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":666.194,"endTime":669.555,"body":"new mechanics and then they say it"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":666.194,"endTime":669.555,"body":"needs all of these parts replaced."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":669.915,"endTime":677.564,"body":"So it's like we get a feel for the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":669.915,"endTime":677.564,"body":"kinds of implications or knowledge, and"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":677.564,"endTime":680.564,"body":"also the kinds of professionals that"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":677.564,"endTime":680.564,"body":"we can talk to in all these settings."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":680.595,"endTime":680.925,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":681.555,"endTime":687.584,"body":"And I think the difference at the moment"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":681.555,"endTime":687.584,"body":"in AI is, one, it's still very young."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":687.94,"endTime":690.91,"body":"Like computing in general is"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":687.94,"endTime":690.91,"body":"less than a hundred years old."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":690.94,"endTime":694.545,"body":"So we're still kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":690.94,"endTime":694.545,"body":"in awe of its potential."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":695.085,"endTime":696.765,"body":"We were like that with electricity."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":697.625,"endTime":700.525,"body":"I remember...[laugh] I remember"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":697.625,"endTime":700.525,"body":"250 years ago when I was born."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":700.865,"endTime":705.635,"body":"No, I remember that in early discussions"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":700.865,"endTime":705.635,"body":"about electricity, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":705.635,"endTime":706.625,"body":"thought it could do everything."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":706.625,"endTime":711.275,"body":"Cure cancer, cure blindness, treat"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":706.625,"endTime":711.275,"body":"women for hysteria, and we've"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":711.275,"endTime":715.564,"body":"obviously changed a great deal in our"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":711.275,"endTime":715.564,"body":"response to that technology over time."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":715.985,"endTime":723.54,"body":"I think something that makes implication"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":715.985,"endTime":723.54,"body":"gaining harder with computing technologies"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":723.99,"endTime":729.2,"body":"is that we have explicitly designed them"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":723.99,"endTime":729.2,"body":"to make the work involved invisible."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":730.05,"endTime":735.57,"body":"It is very hard for members of the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":730.05,"endTime":735.57,"body":"public to even get a sense of it being"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":735.93,"endTime":741.535,"body":"constructed by humans because all of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":735.93,"endTime":741.535,"body":"the work, and what makes it magic,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":741.745,"endTime":743.694,"body":"is that it just seems instantaneous."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":743.845,"endTime":746.515,"body":"And, you know, we talk"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":743.845,"endTime":746.515,"body":"about it like magic spells."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":746.545,"endTime":750.685,"body":"We kind of, you know, it's peanut butter"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":746.545,"endTime":750.685,"body":"and goblins just sticking things together."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":751.074,"endTime":756.265,"body":"So I think that makes it really hard"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":751.074,"endTime":756.265,"body":"for people to do the kind of human"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":756.345,"endTime":760.704,"body":"smell-sniffing-sound detection that we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":756.345,"endTime":760.704,"body":"do with other kinds of technologies."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":761.005,"endTime":763.345,"body":"But I'm really interested"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":761.005,"endTime":763.345,"body":"for you, like how does that"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":763.345,"endTime":764.605,"body":"actually work out in practice?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":764.605,"endTime":767.335,"body":"Cause this is me kind of saying,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":764.605,"endTime":767.335,"body":"this is what I think it is, but"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":767.335,"endTime":771.505,"body":"what's it been like for you,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":767.335,"endTime":771.505,"body":"working with it in applied settings?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":772.17,"endTime":772.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":772.53,"endTime":776.34,"body":"I mean, there's a whole, like every"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":772.53,"endTime":776.34,"body":"industry, the technology adoption"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":776.34,"endTime":780.36,"body":"in, and the computing systems in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":776.34,"endTime":780.36,"body":"sport, has exponentially increased."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":780.63,"endTime":784.8,"body":"But before I answer that, I think you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":780.63,"endTime":784.8,"body":"mentioned something about the nature of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":784.8,"endTime":789.0,"body":"technology then and I always think of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":784.8,"endTime":789.0,"body":"the way that Don Norman refers to this in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":789.0,"endTime":793.26,"body":"terms of surface represented technology"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":789.0,"endTime":793.26,"body":"versus internally represented technology."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":793.74,"endTime":798.69,"body":"And I think a hammer is a surface"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":793.74,"endTime":798.69,"body":"representative piece of technology."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":798.87,"endTime":801.75,"body":"You can look at a hammer and you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":798.87,"endTime":801.75,"body":"can know what it does and how"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":801.765,"endTime":803.055,"body":"to use it just by looking at it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":803.445,"endTime":807.015,"body":"And something of, I'm not the first"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":803.445,"endTime":807.015,"body":"person to notice this, but certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":807.015,"endTime":811.125,"body":"in sport, like most industries, as"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":807.015,"endTime":811.125,"body":"you've rightly pointed out now, more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":811.125,"endTime":814.275,"body":"and more types of technology we're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":811.125,"endTime":814.275,"body":"using are internally represented."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":814.275,"endTime":817.305,"body":"You can't find out how it works"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":814.275,"endTime":817.305,"body":"or how to use it unless you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":817.685,"endTime":819.335,"body":"unpack it or take it apart."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":819.845,"endTime":824.135,"body":"And so in sport, we haven't really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":819.845,"endTime":824.135,"body":"dealt with that very well as a whole."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":824.165,"endTime":825.185,"body":"We're still grappling with it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":825.215,"endTime":829.985,"body":"We have whole jobs now that are set"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":825.215,"endTime":829.985,"body":"up to monitor or utilise one piece"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":829.985,"endTime":834.185,"body":"of technology, of which 99% of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":829.985,"endTime":834.185,"body":"workforce don't know how it works,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":834.365,"endTime":835.925,"body":"and sometimes even why it's important."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":836.655,"endTime":840.88,"body":"So, again, I don't want to be totally"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":836.655,"endTime":840.88,"body":"self-critical on sport because I don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":840.88,"endTime":845.02,"body":"think a lot of industries have been"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":840.88,"endTime":845.02,"body":"well-prepared for that, but certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":845.02,"endTime":848.8,"body":"there hasn't been enough sitting back"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":845.02,"endTime":848.8,"body":"and taking stock of where we are, where"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":848.8,"endTime":851.92,"body":"we're heading, why we're certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":848.8,"endTime":851.92,"body":"taking up certain technologies."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":851.92,"endTime":855.79,"body":"And again, this is a complex, complex"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":851.92,"endTime":855.79,"body":"world, like lots of industries and lots"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":855.79,"endTime":860.26,"body":"of fields are and there's pressures"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":855.79,"endTime":860.26,"body":"on sporting clubs to keep up with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":860.26,"endTime":861.76,"body":"the Joneses more than most sports."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":861.76,"endTime":865.92,"body":"And so they're also not exempt from"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":861.76,"endTime":865.92,"body":"the whims of salesmen and people"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":865.94,"endTime":867.37,"body":"trying to pedal products either."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":867.37,"endTime":870.04,"body":"And so there's a whole range"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":867.37,"endTime":870.04,"body":"of considerations there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":870.04,"endTime":874.67,"body":"And let's not forget management owners,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":870.04,"endTime":874.67,"body":"boards in sporting clubs, are invariably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":874.69,"endTime":877.99,"body":"not trained scientifically, and they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":874.69,"endTime":877.99,"body":"certainly not trained technologists."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":877.99,"endTime":882.18,"body":"So it's not any wonder we are in a little"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":877.99,"endTime":882.18,"body":"bit of, uh, an interesting position there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":882.18,"endTime":884.34,"body":"But I'm not going to be too"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":882.18,"endTime":884.34,"body":"negative on my own industry, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":884.34,"endTime":886.44,"body":"guess it's like this everywhere."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":887.36,"endTime":888.35,"body":"I don't"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":887.36,"endTime":888.35,"body":"even think it's negative."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":888.35,"endTime":889.27,"body":"It's like a reality."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":889.42,"endTime":892.67,"body":"I mean, sports more than any other"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":889.42,"endTime":892.67,"body":"industry is explicitly about winning."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":892.7,"endTime":895.58,"body":"I mean, you could challenge me on"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":892.7,"endTime":895.58,"body":"that, but like you're rewarded if you"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":895.58,"endTime":898.19,"body":"win and you get more jobs if you win."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":898.78,"endTime":905.14,"body":"And so you can't really ignore potential"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":898.78,"endTime":905.14,"body":"technologies that could have an effect"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":905.14,"endTime":906.339,"body":"because you might lose your edge."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":906.91,"endTime":909.4,"body":"So I don't think it's being"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":906.91,"endTime":909.4,"body":"hard on your industry."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":909.4,"endTime":913.065,"body":"I think it's like"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":909.4,"endTime":913.065,"body":"something that is just..."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":913.665,"endTime":916.965,"body":"I think every industry to a certain"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":913.665,"endTime":916.965,"body":"extent has that with developing new"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":916.965,"endTime":923.295,"body":"technologies generally, but in sport,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":916.965,"endTime":923.295,"body":"in particular, it feels like when your"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":923.325,"endTime":928.455,"body":"potential future is predicated on the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":923.325,"endTime":928.455,"body":"success in quite an explicit way of what"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":928.455,"endTime":933.015,"body":"you're doing now, it's very hard to ignore"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":928.455,"endTime":933.015,"body":"these things or say \"Let's just take a"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":933.015,"endTime":935.385,"body":"few seasons and like, think about it.\""},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":935.895,"endTime":937.995,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":935.895,"endTime":937.995,"body":"again, it's not unique to sport, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":937.995,"endTime":940.825,"body":"it's certainly a characteristic that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":937.995,"endTime":940.825,"body":"other industries don't always have."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":941.115,"endTime":944.715,"body":"It's very, very fast paced and very"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":941.115,"endTime":944.715,"body":"short memories a lot of the time as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":945.735,"endTime":949.605,"body":"I think one of the great things about AI"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":945.735,"endTime":949.605,"body":"is it's pervasive and it's literally being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":949.605,"endTime":954.225,"body":"applied to just about everything we do"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":949.605,"endTime":954.225,"body":"as humans now, but I'm really interested"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":954.345,"endTime":959.03,"body":"to hear your thoughts on where it could"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":954.345,"endTime":959.03,"body":"potentially be used best in sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":959.03,"endTime":961.699,"body":"And particularly what are the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":959.03,"endTime":961.699,"body":"implications for lots of stakeholders."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":961.699,"endTime":965.27,"body":"I mean, we just talked about a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":961.699,"endTime":965.27,"body":"few then, athletes versus coaches"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":965.3,"endTime":970.34,"body":"versus franchise owners, media fans,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":965.3,"endTime":970.34,"body":"they all have different interests."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":970.38,"endTime":973.85,"body":"I mean, you just talked about it being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":970.38,"endTime":973.85,"body":"that sport is there to win and certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":973.91,"endTime":977.915,"body":"athletes and fans and probably coaches"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":973.91,"endTime":977.915,"body":"think that, but potentially other"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":977.915,"endTime":979.235,"body":"stakeholders are trying to make money."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":979.235,"endTime":982.295,"body":"And that might be a little bit cynical,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":979.235,"endTime":982.295,"body":"but that's really their main goal."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":982.955,"endTime":986.435,"body":"Do you have ideas about what you've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":982.955,"endTime":986.435,"body":"seen in other disciplines about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":986.435,"endTime":990.965,"body":"what implications of, say, a more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":986.435,"endTime":990.965,"body":"AI-friendly sports industry might"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":990.965,"endTime":993.425,"body":"mean for some of those stakeholders"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":990.965,"endTime":993.425,"body":"or what it could potentially mean?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":994.875,"endTime":998.29,"body":"So, I'll say two things."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":998.56,"endTime":1002.76,"body":"One is, so in other industries, because"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":998.56,"endTime":1002.76,"body":"I can talk about other industries"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1002.76,"endTime":1005.79,"body":"with much more expertise than I can"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1002.76,"endTime":1005.79,"body":"talk about sport, but then I can"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1006.33,"endTime":1010.92,"body":"definitely have a crack at sport"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1006.33,"endTime":1010.92,"body":"given my family is sports mad and I"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1010.92,"endTime":1012.75,"body":"can reflect and what I've seen work."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1013.17,"endTime":1016.345,"body":"But one of the things that I think"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1013.17,"endTime":1016.345,"body":"we don't talk enough about, is"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1016.345,"endTime":1020.335,"body":"that quite often some of your most"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1016.345,"endTime":1020.335,"body":"game-changing applications of AI - so"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1020.335,"endTime":1024.535,"body":"say we're talking about like using"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1020.335,"endTime":1024.535,"body":"massive quantities of data to speed"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1024.535,"endTime":1030.145,"body":"up or automate certain aspects of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1024.535,"endTime":1030.145,"body":"how you might complete a process - is"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1030.145,"endTime":1034.615,"body":"that quite often, AI is really"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1030.145,"endTime":1034.615,"body":"helping us out in deeply unsexy ways."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1034.855,"endTime":1037.315,"body":"Like the administrative side of sport."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1037.855,"endTime":1045.12,"body":"Processing databases of gameplays,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1037.855,"endTime":1045.12,"body":"changing the way that we, I know,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1045.12,"endTime":1050.58,"body":"for example, in HR to give you a case"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1045.12,"endTime":1050.58,"body":"study that we've looked at, it's not"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1050.58,"endTime":1055.41,"body":"that AI necessarily gives us great"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1050.58,"endTime":1055.41,"body":"advantages in knowing candidates better."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1055.705,"endTime":1059.725,"body":"Because it's just really hard to know how"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1055.705,"endTime":1059.725,"body":"people are going to perform in a workplace"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1059.785,"endTime":1063.535,"body":"for a bunch of reasons, unrelated to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1059.785,"endTime":1063.535,"body":"the quality of their interview, but"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1063.535,"endTime":1067.795,"body":"can help us automate other parts of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1063.535,"endTime":1067.795,"body":"this otherwise deeply painful process."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1068.065,"endTime":1075.425,"body":"Like randomly allocating CVs to humans to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1068.065,"endTime":1075.425,"body":"look at, or creating a more streamlined"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1075.425,"endTime":1079.745,"body":"workflow so it's easier for humans to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1075.425,"endTime":1079.745,"body":"get to the bits of the applications"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1079.745,"endTime":1085.055,"body":"that are really important to deciding"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1079.745,"endTime":1085.055,"body":"who should be a candidate for a job."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1085.385,"endTime":1089.795,"body":"And so that's not replacing the human"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1085.385,"endTime":1089.795,"body":"looking at the other human, it's like"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1089.855,"endTime":1093.935,"body":"making it faster and more targeted and"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1089.855,"endTime":1093.935,"body":"easy to find the bits that you need."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1094.415,"endTime":1097.685,"body":"So I think there's likely, you're"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1094.415,"endTime":1097.685,"body":"probably thinking of them right now - I"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1097.685,"endTime":1101.385,"body":"can see you smiling because we're on"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1097.685,"endTime":1101.385,"body":"video - that there are many, elements"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1101.385,"endTime":1106.845,"body":"of processes in sport that are not the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1101.385,"endTime":1106.845,"body":"magic spells, sexy bit at the end where"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1106.845,"endTime":1111.814,"body":"you're like I can predict when you will"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1106.845,"endTime":1111.814,"body":"have an injury exactly to this extent,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1112.084,"endTime":1116.435,"body":"but you could automate parts of the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1112.084,"endTime":1116.435,"body":"process that make injury prevention"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1116.645,"endTime":1119.135,"body":"easier and more targeted for humans."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1119.135,"endTime":1122.495,"body":"So I think unsexy processes."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1122.885,"endTime":1128.915,"body":"We get a huge kick out of using massive"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1122.885,"endTime":1128.915,"body":"quantities of information and kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1128.945,"endTime":1132.335,"body":"more sophisticated computing techniques"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1128.945,"endTime":1132.335,"body":"that just help us speed those up."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1132.845,"endTime":1139.175,"body":"So, and even just things like in"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1132.845,"endTime":1139.175,"body":"sports, I imagine you would focus as"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1139.175,"endTime":1145.625,"body":"much as in other sectors on things"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1139.175,"endTime":1145.625,"body":"like the effects of weather and ground"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1145.625,"endTime":1153.725,"body":"conditions and ball bounce, and a range"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1145.625,"endTime":1153.725,"body":"of aspects of the game, depending on"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1153.725,"endTime":1159.455,"body":"what game that is, where these are more"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1153.725,"endTime":1159.455,"body":"measurable using a range of sensors"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1160.145,"endTime":1164.465,"body":"in ways that perhaps are not so kind"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1160.145,"endTime":1164.465,"body":"of calling on us to make assumptions"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1164.465,"endTime":1166.145,"body":"about what the data is telling us."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1166.145,"endTime":1170.375,"body":"Like, if you're just trying to understand"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1166.145,"endTime":1170.375,"body":"quality of ground conditions, effective"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1170.375,"endTime":1174.965,"body":"weather, they're kind of more, I hate to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1170.375,"endTime":1174.965,"body":"use the word neutral, but we can collect"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1174.985,"endTime":1178.105,"body":"lots and lots of information about"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1174.985,"endTime":1178.105,"body":"them, and we can use them as a close"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1178.105,"endTime":1179.695,"body":"proxy for what we're trying to measure."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1180.085,"endTime":1184.795,"body":"I think it gets harder in sport, as it"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1180.085,"endTime":1184.795,"body":"does everywhere else, where we're trying"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1184.795,"endTime":1190.845,"body":"to use what we can measure with sensors"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1184.795,"endTime":1190.845,"body":"to stand in for something that's actually"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1190.845,"endTime":1192.495,"body":"quite hard to measure in practice."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1192.825,"endTime":1196.665,"body":"So I used job recruitment as the"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1192.825,"endTime":1196.665,"body":"previous example where we like try"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1196.665,"endTime":1200.715,"body":"to measure, using video technology,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1196.665,"endTime":1200.715,"body":"the extent to which people smile"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1201.015,"endTime":1207.165,"body":"or make eye contact as a measure of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1201.015,"endTime":1207.165,"body":"say they're empathy and awareness,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1207.465,"endTime":1209.325,"body":"and those are not the same thing."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1209.865,"endTime":1213.225,"body":"So I can imagine you have some contexts"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1209.865,"endTime":1213.225,"body":"in sport as well, where some things are"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1213.225,"endTime":1219.195,"body":"quite easy to measure, like strain on"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1213.225,"endTime":1219.195,"body":"the knees, connecting with the ground,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1220.075,"endTime":1226.155,"body":"but if you are trying to measure,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1220.075,"endTime":1226.155,"body":"like, endurance in a more human sense,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1227.055,"endTime":1229.125,"body":"maybe you get into stickier territory."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1229.335,"endTime":1230.445,"body":"I don't know what you've found."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1230.93,"endTime":1233.18,"body":"Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1230.93,"endTime":1233.18,"body":"particularly an issue on some of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1233.18,"endTime":1234.83,"body":"human factors that you mentioned then."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1234.86,"endTime":1237.92,"body":"We just don't have, and again I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1234.86,"endTime":1237.92,"body":"not a psychologist, but we don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1237.92,"endTime":1242.18,"body":"have great ways through technology of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1237.92,"endTime":1242.18,"body":"measuring some of those characteristics,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1242.18,"endTime":1245.3,"body":"which we know are important to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1242.18,"endTime":1245.3,"body":"sports performance - resilience,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1245.3,"endTime":1247.34,"body":"communication, all these types of things."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1247.79,"endTime":1250.13,"body":"And so we really struggle"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1247.79,"endTime":1250.13,"body":"with availability bias."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1250.16,"endTime":1254.665,"body":"It's very easy to focus on things that are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1250.16,"endTime":1254.665,"body":"easy to measure from technology, which is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1254.665,"endTime":1257.064,"body":"largely the physical components of sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1257.095,"endTime":1260.004,"body":"So we're very good at measuring how"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1257.095,"endTime":1260.004,"body":"fast someone can run and how fast they"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1260.004,"endTime":1263.574,"body":"are, and that does draw our attention"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1260.004,"endTime":1263.574,"body":"to them more than perhaps they should."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1263.995,"endTime":1267.145,"body":"There's some understanding of that, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1263.995,"endTime":1267.145,"body":"suppose, but we've still got a way to go."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1267.445,"endTime":1268.945,"body":"Oh, I need to come back"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1267.445,"endTime":1268.945,"body":"to what you said earlier."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1268.945,"endTime":1273.04,"body":"And I know anyone listening that knows"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1268.945,"endTime":1273.04,"body":"me at all will think I put you up to that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1273.04,"endTime":1278.17,"body":"response about focusing on the unsexy"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1273.04,"endTime":1278.17,"body":"part of data, but it is something that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1278.2,"endTime":1281.11,"body":"kind of yell from the rooftops to people"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1278.2,"endTime":1281.11,"body":"in sport when I have an opportunity,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1281.11,"endTime":1283.45,"body":"because it frustrates me on two levels."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1283.48,"endTime":1287.47,"body":"Firstly, that we don't necessarily always"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1283.48,"endTime":1287.47,"body":"see the opportunities for automation"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1287.47,"endTime":1289.09,"body":"or semi-automation of processes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1289.72,"endTime":1291.94,"body":"And then secondly, when we do"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1289.72,"endTime":1291.94,"body":"see the opportunities, we either"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1291.94,"endTime":1295.835,"body":"don't take them, or we don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1291.94,"endTime":1295.835,"body":"take advantage of the time saved."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1296.315,"endTime":1302.305,"body":"And again, evaluation of a player in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1296.315,"endTime":1302.305,"body":"a team sport accurately and reliably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1302.325,"endTime":1306.635,"body":"could be done in somewhat semi-automated"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1302.325,"endTime":1306.635,"body":"fashion now, but yet coaches still"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1306.905,"endTime":1310.595,"body":"enjoy spending six hours together in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1306.905,"endTime":1310.595,"body":"a room on a Monday morning discussing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1311.465,"endTime":1314.555,"body":"who was good and who wasn't, and then"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1311.465,"endTime":1314.555,"body":"coming to some kind of binary decision"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1314.555,"endTime":1317.855,"body":"anyway, which is generally deferred"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1314.555,"endTime":1317.855,"body":"to the most senior person in the room."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1317.855,"endTime":1321.395,"body":"So this is where we're at, and this is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1317.855,"endTime":1321.395,"body":"not, again, a sports-specific problem."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1321.495,"endTime":1324.355,"body":"It's just something that's inherent"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1321.495,"endTime":1324.355,"body":"all over the place, I'm sure."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1324.835,"endTime":1327.764,"body":"I always say, cause"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1324.835,"endTime":1327.764,"body":"I used to work on a lot of big data"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1327.794,"endTime":1331.754,"body":"infrastructure implementation challenges,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1327.794,"endTime":1331.754,"body":"and I'd always say the first thing"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1331.784,"endTime":1333.885,"body":"is people are like, \"What should we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1331.784,"endTime":1333.885,"body":"do?\", and I'd be like, this is a human"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1333.885,"endTime":1335.835,"body":"problem, it is not a technology problem."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1336.625,"endTime":1341.685,"body":"The way in which we make use of technology"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1336.625,"endTime":1341.685,"body":"more effectively is we change our"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1341.685,"endTime":1344.175,"body":"culture as humans interacting with that."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1344.715,"endTime":1346.645,"body":"But it is really hard to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1344.715,"endTime":1346.645,"body":"get people to undersand."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1346.765,"endTime":1350.685,"body":"Like we still have this idea that you"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1346.765,"endTime":1350.685,"body":"can just drop an expensive solution"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1350.685,"endTime":1353.175,"body":"in the middle of it and then all of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1350.685,"endTime":1353.175,"body":"the change you want to see will happen"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1353.175,"endTime":1360.355,"body":"around it, and we forget that humans have"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1353.175,"endTime":1360.355,"body":"traditions and expectations and previous"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1360.655,"endTime":1362.425,"body":"understandings of how a job is done."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1362.485,"endTime":1365.545,"body":"And unless we really help with that,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1362.485,"endTime":1365.545,"body":"they're always going to be shiny"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1365.545,"endTime":1367.135,"body":"toys that we don't use very well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1367.605,"endTime":1369.865,"body":"Yeah and I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1367.605,"endTime":1369.865,"body":"there's a role that's becoming more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1369.915,"endTime":1373.785,"body":"popular in the banking sector, I think,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1369.915,"endTime":1373.785,"body":"but also it's creeping into sport too,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1373.785,"endTime":1375.105,"body":"which is that role of storyteller."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1375.105,"endTime":1379.115,"body":"And I don't know if that's the right word,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1375.105,"endTime":1379.115,"body":"but I think certainly it's almost like"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1379.115,"endTime":1381.755,"body":"a PR advocate for AI in sport is needed."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1381.755,"endTime":1384.695,"body":"And maybe that's a storyteller or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1381.755,"endTime":1384.695,"body":"maybe it's someone who just understands"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1384.695,"endTime":1386.195,"body":"it, who can relate well to coaches."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1386.195,"endTime":1389.735,"body":"And of course there's not a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1386.195,"endTime":1389.735,"body":"those people out there, in sport anyway."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1390.185,"endTime":1394.115,"body":"Now I know we're, as often is the case,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1390.185,"endTime":1394.115,"body":"we're running short on time, but I really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1394.115,"endTime":1396.165,"body":"wanted to talk to you about limitations."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1396.165,"endTime":1400.544,"body":"Because I think it's very easy to get"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1396.165,"endTime":1400.544,"body":"carried away with the advantages, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1400.575,"endTime":1404.325,"body":"are there limitations or negative effects"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1400.575,"endTime":1404.325,"body":"that you could see playing out in sport,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1404.325,"endTime":1407.685,"body":"and potentially some things you've seen"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1404.325,"endTime":1407.685,"body":"elsewhere, in the future or even now."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1408.274,"endTime":1410.825,"body":"So there's a few things."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1410.855,"endTime":1416.095,"body":"So I think, a general limitation that"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1410.855,"endTime":1416.095,"body":"we have is that a lot of the time,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1416.095,"endTime":1420.865,"body":"particularly when we're trying to use"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1416.095,"endTime":1420.865,"body":"AI to chase things that have previously"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1420.865,"endTime":1425.965,"body":"been elusive, that we can put too much"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1420.865,"endTime":1425.965,"body":"trust in the systems that we're using"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1425.965,"endTime":1427.764,"body":"and ignore our own human judgment."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1427.764,"endTime":1430.465,"body":"So that's where you're like, well,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1427.764,"endTime":1430.465,"body":"the system is telling me this guy runs"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1430.465,"endTime":1434.725,"body":"the fastest and he is the strongest,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1430.465,"endTime":1434.725,"body":"so he's going to be the best player"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1435.35,"endTime":1439.19,"body":"- irrespective of how we might have"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1435.35,"endTime":1439.19,"body":"known before using a predictive system"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1439.19,"endTime":1440.81,"body":"that there's more to it than that."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1441.76,"endTime":1447.29,"body":"So one limitation is how do we ensure"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1441.76,"endTime":1447.29,"body":"that we still maintain some kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1447.32,"endTime":1452.12,"body":"equilibrium between the systems that we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1447.32,"endTime":1452.12,"body":"use to help us make decisions, but still"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1452.24,"endTime":1455.33,"body":"kind of using our own experience as well?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1455.78,"endTime":1459.35,"body":"Something that I think about a lot"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1455.78,"endTime":1459.35,"body":"for elite athletes, is that probably"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1459.35,"endTime":1465.08,"body":"more than most other people in any"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1459.35,"endTime":1465.08,"body":"other jobs, the amount of data being"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1465.08,"endTime":1467.87,"body":"collected about them is incredible."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1467.899,"endTime":1471.949,"body":"There is nobody measuring, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1467.899,"endTime":1471.949,"body":"my body weight and body mass and"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1472.25,"endTime":1477.08,"body":"performance on a daily or weekly basis"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1472.25,"endTime":1477.08,"body":"and how fast I'm moving and looking"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1477.08,"endTime":1480.679,"body":"at my genetic history in order to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1477.08,"endTime":1480.679,"body":"understand what makes a fantastic athlete."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1480.679,"endTime":1483.05,"body":"Like that is not"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1480.679,"endTime":1483.05,"body":"happening for most people."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1483.08,"endTime":1486.98,"body":"And that is not only a huge amount"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1483.08,"endTime":1486.98,"body":"of information to collect about"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1486.98,"endTime":1491.61,"body":"individuals, but something that I"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1486.98,"endTime":1491.61,"body":"think about for athletes is, how"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1491.61,"endTime":1493.905,"body":"does that follow you over time?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1494.265,"endTime":1500.505,"body":"Like we know, for example, that your"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1494.265,"endTime":1500.505,"body":"injury record is a factor in the kinds"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1500.505,"endTime":1507.895,"body":"of future opportunities you have with"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1500.505,"endTime":1507.895,"body":"different clubs, but as we start to amass"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1508.935,"endTime":1516.53,"body":"richer pictures of athletes, what kinds of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1508.935,"endTime":1516.53,"body":"decisions could be made about them using"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1516.53,"endTime":1520.7,"body":"information that actually is just not"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1516.53,"endTime":1520.7,"body":"that predictive, but because we have so"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1520.7,"endTime":1522.53,"body":"much of it, we just start relying on it?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1522.83,"endTime":1528.879,"body":"So you could have an injury record going"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1522.83,"endTime":1528.879,"body":"back three quarters of your career."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1528.879,"endTime":1532.21,"body":"So moving from, we have really detailed"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1528.879,"endTime":1532.21,"body":"data about you from the last three years,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1532.24,"endTime":1537.399,"body":"to if you're a young athlete now you could"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1532.24,"endTime":1537.399,"body":"be looking at your whole career is now"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1537.429,"endTime":1540.129,"body":"incredibly quantifiable using information."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1540.49,"endTime":1543.97,"body":"And how do you allow people"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1540.49,"endTime":1543.97,"body":"to also move on from that?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1544.33,"endTime":1548.74,"body":"To not be beholden to this"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1544.33,"endTime":1548.74,"body":"digital footprint of the past?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1548.915,"endTime":1551.375,"body":"So for athletes, I think about that a lot."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1551.885,"endTime":1553.785,"body":"I remember you and I were"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1551.885,"endTime":1553.785,"body":"having a conversation about"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1553.785,"endTime":1556.985,"body":"unique identifiers for athletes."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1557.015,"endTime":1560.635,"body":"And we know, for example, from using"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1557.015,"endTime":1560.635,"body":"unique identifiers for researchers,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1560.765,"endTime":1564.905,"body":"that that changes the way we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1560.765,"endTime":1564.905,"body":"measure research, it changes how"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1564.905,"endTime":1567.155,"body":"we value certain research outputs."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1567.485,"endTime":1572.105,"body":"So it has both a positive in that it makes"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1567.485,"endTime":1572.105,"body":"your history as a researcher easier to"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1572.105,"endTime":1578.409,"body":"track, but it also skews how we measure"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1572.105,"endTime":1578.409,"body":"research and the quality of outputs."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1578.83,"endTime":1583.6,"body":"So I just think about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1578.83,"endTime":1583.6,"body":"what is the effect of lasting, more"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1583.6,"endTime":1585.96,"body":"detailed information about humans?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1586.33,"endTime":1589.449,"body":"I cannot think of other"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1586.33,"endTime":1589.449,"body":"industries that are perhaps as"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1589.449,"endTime":1590.889,"body":"quantifiable for individuals."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1591.36,"endTime":1592.24,"body":"Astronauts!"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1592.6,"endTime":1593.79,"body":"Astronauts and athletes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1593.79,"endTime":1595.1,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1593.79,"endTime":1595.1,"body":"they're probably pretty close."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1595.13,"endTime":1597.02,"body":"They might have a athletes covered even."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1597.35,"endTime":1602.27,"body":"Yeah I think, hearing you speak there, it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1597.35,"endTime":1602.27,"body":"becomes, as so often is the case, it comes"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1602.57,"endTime":1606.65,"body":"back to where we're starting and what's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1602.57,"endTime":1606.65,"body":"our understanding of sports performance."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1606.65,"endTime":1610.52,"body":"Do we have a working model, a mental"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1606.65,"endTime":1610.52,"body":"model, or even an analytical model about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1611.305,"endTime":1615.145,"body":"when we are doing things like you just"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1611.305,"endTime":1615.145,"body":"mentioned that we're aware of the gaps?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1615.565,"endTime":1619.615,"body":"So we're aware that we haven't got great"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1615.565,"endTime":1619.615,"body":"ways of tracking their communication,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1619.615,"endTime":1622.045,"body":"their resilience, their mood, those"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1619.615,"endTime":1622.045,"body":"things that we talked about earlier."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1622.435,"endTime":1625.375,"body":"But again, even doing that, I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1622.435,"endTime":1625.375,"body":"it's very easy still to forget about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1625.375,"endTime":1629.975,"body":"those things and you do become reliant"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1625.375,"endTime":1629.975,"body":"and I think that's still a danger."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1630.555,"endTime":1632.985,"body":"Just before I let you go, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1630.555,"endTime":1632.985,"body":"just wanted to ask you this."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1633.165,"endTime":1638.445,"body":"This is such a fast moving area,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1633.165,"endTime":1638.445,"body":"but big things that AI is grappling"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1638.445,"endTime":1640.155,"body":"with as a whole, what are they?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1640.155,"endTime":1643.725,"body":"What's one or two big things that they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1640.155,"endTime":1643.725,"body":"grappling with now, or they could be soon?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1643.725,"endTime":1647.004,"body":"And you don't need to talk about how it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1643.725,"endTime":1647.004,"body":"might impact sport, but certainly our"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1647.004,"endTime":1648.284,"body":"listeners might be able to take that away."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1648.284,"endTime":1652.065,"body":"But what's the one or two big things"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1648.284,"endTime":1652.065,"body":"you think that it's grappling with now?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1652.66,"endTime":1655.33,"body":"So I think"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1652.66,"endTime":1655.33,"body":"conversations now are moving very"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1655.33,"endTime":1659.47,"body":"explicitly to discussions of power"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1655.33,"endTime":1659.47,"body":"and structure and accountability."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1659.98,"endTime":1664.45,"body":"My area is kind of AI ethics"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1659.98,"endTime":1664.45,"body":"and responsible AI, and we"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1664.45,"endTime":1667.39,"body":"talk about there being two or"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1664.45,"endTime":1667.39,"body":"three waves that we've been on."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1667.39,"endTime":1670.46,"body":"One being about kind of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1667.39,"endTime":1670.46,"body":"values-driven, principles-driven"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1670.48,"endTime":1672.31,"body":"approaches to technology design."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1672.754,"endTime":1677.615,"body":"The second being about improving"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1672.754,"endTime":1677.615,"body":"technical issues with systems."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1678.185,"endTime":1681.875,"body":"So reducing bias in your model,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1678.185,"endTime":1681.875,"body":"improving your error rates."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1682.264,"endTime":1685.504,"body":"And now this third category is kind"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1682.264,"endTime":1685.504,"body":"of, well, how do you think about these"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1685.504,"endTime":1690.155,"body":"systems in context and who has ownership"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1685.504,"endTime":1690.155,"body":"of them and how will they be deployed?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1690.455,"endTime":1695.58,"body":"So I think the next 10 to 25, to probably"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1690.455,"endTime":1695.58,"body":"50 years, we're going to be talking a"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1695.58,"endTime":1700.35,"body":"lot more about things like organisational"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1695.58,"endTime":1700.35,"body":"accountability for the use of systems."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1700.89,"endTime":1703.53,"body":"We're going to be talking"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1700.89,"endTime":1703.53,"body":"about professionalisation of"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1703.53,"endTime":1705.18,"body":"the design of those systems."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1705.21,"endTime":1708.27,"body":"So it's going to move away from"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1705.21,"endTime":1708.27,"body":"how do we make the system as good"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1708.27,"endTime":1714.0,"body":"as it can be, to what are your"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1708.27,"endTime":1714.0,"body":"responsibilities as, say, a team using"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1714.0,"endTime":1716.26,"body":"the systems in high-stakes contexts."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1716.28,"endTime":1720.325,"body":"So if you're going to make decisions that"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1716.28,"endTime":1720.325,"body":"could affect a player's livelihood, what"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1720.325,"endTime":1723.955,"body":"are your obligations in using the systems?"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1724.285,"endTime":1726.655,"body":"I don't think we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1724.285,"endTime":1726.655,"body":"that perhaps explicitly in sport"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1726.655,"endTime":1730.524,"body":"yet, but it's definitely happening in"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1726.655,"endTime":1730.524,"body":"other contexts like law enforcement,"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1730.675,"endTime":1735.535,"body":"facial recognition, this move away"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1730.675,"endTime":1735.535,"body":"from \"how do we improve the system?\""},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1735.805,"endTime":1740.335,"body":"to \"what are your responsibilities as"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1735.805,"endTime":1740.335,"body":"organisations designing and using them?\"."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1740.635,"endTime":1741.865,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1740.635,"endTime":1741.865,"body":"mean, there's certainly lots of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1741.865,"endTime":1743.455,"body":"implications for sport there, I think."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1743.455,"endTime":1747.045,"body":"And I would agree though that we're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1743.455,"endTime":1747.045,"body":"probably not quite addressing those in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1747.045,"endTime":1748.735,"body":"certainly not a wholesale level yet."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1749.125,"endTime":1749.425,"body":"Dr."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1749.425,"endTime":1751.165,"body":"Ellen Broad thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1749.425,"endTime":1751.165,"body":"for joining me on the show."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1751.705,"endTime":1752.815,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1751.705,"endTime":1752.815,"body":"so much for having me."},{"speaker":"Dr Ellen Broad","startTime":1752.815,"endTime":1754.595,"body":"It was fun."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1759.754,"endTime":1762.36,"body":"Now for a different"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1759.754,"endTime":1762.36,"body":"perspective on AI, from someone who"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1762.36,"endTime":1766.65,"body":"experiences its influence on a daily basis"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1762.36,"endTime":1766.65,"body":"in the professional sporting environment."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1767.52,"endTime":1767.79,"body":"Dr."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1767.79,"endTime":1770.91,"body":"Xavi Schelling is the director of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1767.79,"endTime":1770.91,"body":"sports science and performance for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1770.91,"endTime":1775.86,"body":"the NBA franchise the San Antonio"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1770.91,"endTime":1775.86,"body":"spurs, where he has worked since 2014."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1776.46,"endTime":1779.58,"body":"Prior to that, he worked with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1776.46,"endTime":1779.58,"body":"Basquet Manresa and the successful"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1779.64,"endTime":1781.53,"body":"Spanish Under 20 national team."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1782.04,"endTime":1785.5,"body":"In addition to his considerable"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1782.04,"endTime":1785.5,"body":"basketball industry experience, Xavi"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1785.52,"endTime":1790.47,"body":"also has a PhD in exercise physiology,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1785.52,"endTime":1790.47,"body":"along with a couple of master's degrees."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1790.92,"endTime":1795.15,"body":"He has also published extensively across"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1790.92,"endTime":1795.15,"body":"applied sports science, including more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1795.15,"endTime":1799.74,"body":"recently on the implementation of decision"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1795.15,"endTime":1799.74,"body":"support systems to the sporting context."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1800.07,"endTime":1802.17,"body":"Consequently, I'm really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1800.07,"endTime":1802.17,"body":"interested to hear what he has"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1802.17,"endTime":1803.49,"body":"to say on this particular topic."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1803.7,"endTime":1805.379,"body":"Xavi, thanks so much for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1803.7,"endTime":1805.379,"body":"joining me on the show."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1806.09,"endTime":1807.08,"body":"Hi Sam, how are you?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1807.11,"endTime":1807.98,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1807.98,"endTime":1811.22,"body":"I'm great and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1807.98,"endTime":1811.22,"body":"thanks once again for joining us."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1811.28,"endTime":1813.149,"body":"I'm going to get straight into it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1813.72,"endTime":1818.0,"body":"Which areas of sport do you see as most"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1813.72,"endTime":1818.0,"body":"likely to benefit from AI into the future?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1818.24,"endTime":1820.22,"body":"And are there some that are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1818.24,"endTime":1820.22,"body":"more likely to be problematic?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1820.58,"endTime":1821.179,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1821.21,"endTime":1826.29,"body":"I mean, I think that AI can be"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1821.21,"endTime":1826.29,"body":"implemented in literally any field."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1826.31,"endTime":1831.67,"body":"I mean, AI is in our phones, AI"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1826.31,"endTime":1831.67,"body":"is in our watches, AI is in cars,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1831.67,"endTime":1833.929,"body":"in our fridges, it's everywhere."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1833.96,"endTime":1835.85,"body":"Why should it be different in sports?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1836.389,"endTime":1842.495,"body":"Obviously, the more data you have, what"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1836.389,"endTime":1842.495,"body":"more hot topic is big data, but the more"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1842.495,"endTime":1848.195,"body":"data you have, the more applicable and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1842.495,"endTime":1848.195,"body":"more sense it makes to have AI behind it."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1848.375,"endTime":1853.325,"body":"But also for simpler processes that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1848.375,"endTime":1853.325,"body":"can be just automated and to improve"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1853.325,"endTime":1854.555,"body":"the efficiency of the process."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1854.885,"endTime":1861.38,"body":"And that can go from scouting reports, to"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1854.885,"endTime":1861.38,"body":"talent identification, to the performance"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1861.41,"endTime":1866.81,"body":"staff and trying to assess or evaluate"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1861.41,"endTime":1866.81,"body":"performance on court or off court."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1867.08,"endTime":1868.37,"body":"It's literally endless."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1868.37,"endTime":1872.99,"body":"It will depend on the data that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1868.37,"endTime":1872.99,"body":"you have available and how mature"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1872.99,"endTime":1876.08,"body":"your information systems are in"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1872.99,"endTime":1876.08,"body":"your organisation, basically."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1876.68,"endTime":1878.87,"body":"And you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1876.68,"endTime":1878.87,"body":"mentioned a couple of areas of sporting"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1878.87,"endTime":1883.52,"body":"organisations there that have probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1878.87,"endTime":1883.52,"body":"been at the forefront of picking up AI."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1884.45,"endTime":1887.96,"body":"Do you see any that lagging behind"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1884.45,"endTime":1887.96,"body":"in your experience across different"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1887.96,"endTime":1889.94,"body":"sporting codes for various reasons?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1890.09,"endTime":1893.0,"body":"Do you have any take on why they might"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1890.09,"endTime":1893.0,"body":"be lagging behind in their uptake?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1894.82,"endTime":1897.67,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1894.82,"endTime":1897.67,"body":"that scouting is catching up."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1898.264,"endTime":1903.185,"body":"I'm saying catching up, and it will depend"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1898.264,"endTime":1903.185,"body":"on the sport, but in basketball and in"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1903.185,"endTime":1907.955,"body":"the NBA in particular, which is my field"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1903.185,"endTime":1907.955,"body":"right now, our scouts are very, very good"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1907.985,"endTime":1910.564,"body":"and our scouting team is very, very big."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1910.925,"endTime":1914.705,"body":"And we've relied for many, many"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1910.925,"endTime":1914.705,"body":"years - for 20 plus, 30 years - on"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1914.735,"endTime":1919.655,"body":"their experience and their subjective"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1914.735,"endTime":1919.655,"body":"analysis of talent identification."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1920.044,"endTime":1925.875,"body":"Now we are in the perfect marriage"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1920.044,"endTime":1925.875,"body":"between basketball analytics"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1925.875,"endTime":1929.685,"body":"and advanced statistics and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1925.875,"endTime":1929.685,"body":"AI, and the human expertise."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1929.685,"endTime":1935.795,"body":"So I think that scouting was, a few"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1929.685,"endTime":1935.795,"body":"years ago, clearly behind, but they are"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1936.005,"endTime":1940.325,"body":"very quickly catching up because the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1936.005,"endTime":1940.325,"body":"future of the organisations is on that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1940.325,"endTime":1942.455,"body":"talent, young talent identification."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1942.875,"endTime":1947.945,"body":"And very closely, and probably we'll talk"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1942.875,"endTime":1947.945,"body":"about it later on, is the medical side."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1947.975,"endTime":1953.455,"body":"Medical side, I would say that they"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1947.975,"endTime":1953.455,"body":"are trying to catch up, but there's a"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1953.455,"endTime":1956.075,"body":"lot of skepticism and for good reason."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1956.185,"endTime":1959.784,"body":"The decisions are very, very hard"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1956.185,"endTime":1959.784,"body":"to make, which involves health"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1960.115,"endTime":1964.405,"body":"and injury prevention and the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1960.115,"endTime":1964.405,"body":"implementation of AI machine learning"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1964.405,"endTime":1969.054,"body":"and information systems is very, very"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":1964.405,"endTime":1969.054,"body":"cautious and very, very conservative."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1969.675,"endTime":1970.085,"body":"You're right."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1970.115,"endTime":1972.735,"body":"I probably did want to explore"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1970.115,"endTime":1972.735,"body":"it a little bit later on, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1972.735,"endTime":1974.625,"body":"perhaps we can even do that now."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1975.195,"endTime":1979.504,"body":"You mentioned skepticism by the end"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1975.195,"endTime":1979.504,"body":"user, but I think it's an image problem"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1979.504,"endTime":1983.044,"body":"also, perhaps because it's quite a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1979.504,"endTime":1983.044,"body":"new area still for many disciplines."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1983.675,"endTime":1986.794,"body":"And I feel like that image"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1983.675,"endTime":1986.794,"body":"problem is a lot to do with the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1986.794,"endTime":1988.385,"body":"human versus machine quandary."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1988.715,"endTime":1993.455,"body":"And in medicine and other very black"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1988.715,"endTime":1993.455,"body":"and white decision-making sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1993.455,"endTime":1996.905,"body":"I think if the AI system recommends a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1993.455,"endTime":1996.905,"body":"course of action that turns out to be"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1996.905,"endTime":2001.885,"body":"the wrong one, sometimes I feel like"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":1996.905,"endTime":2001.885,"body":"it might be judged more harshly than"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2001.885,"endTime":2003.835,"body":"if the same error was made by a human."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2004.315,"endTime":2006.565,"body":"Do you think that's part of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2004.315,"endTime":2006.565,"body":"the problem with medicine?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2006.595,"endTime":2009.675,"body":"And maybe injury prediction"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2006.595,"endTime":2009.675,"body":"modeling is something else that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2009.675,"endTime":2010.915,"body":"comes to mind in that area."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2011.275,"endTime":2013.275,"body":"Does that resonate in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2011.275,"endTime":2013.275,"body":"what you've experienced?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2013.555,"endTime":2014.355,"body":"Yeah absolutely."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2014.385,"endTime":2018.945,"body":"I think that for injury prediction, we can"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2014.385,"endTime":2018.945,"body":"do a whole podcast and a whole interview"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2018.945,"endTime":2023.735,"body":"about it because as you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2018.945,"endTime":2023.735,"body":"very hot topic in our field and we can"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2023.764,"endTime":2025.655,"body":"expand later on, on injury prediction."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2025.655,"endTime":2026.885,"body":"But yeah, I agree."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2026.885,"endTime":2029.945,"body":"I think that the reason in"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2026.885,"endTime":2029.945,"body":"medicine is exactly that."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2029.975,"endTime":2034.895,"body":"Because the skepticism relates"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2029.975,"endTime":2034.895,"body":"to the impact of the decision."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2035.105,"endTime":2041.105,"body":"So you can implement a very complex and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2035.105,"endTime":2041.105,"body":"not very successful AI in a decision"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2041.105,"endTime":2045.385,"body":"that is not very important for the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2041.105,"endTime":2045.385,"body":"organisation, because if you fail in the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2045.385,"endTime":2047.815,"body":"decision, it won't have a huge impact."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2047.815,"endTime":2053.034,"body":"Now, when you are deciding on health,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2047.815,"endTime":2053.034,"body":"an injury, or selecting a high"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2053.034,"endTime":2056.395,"body":"caliber player where you are putting"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2053.034,"endTime":2056.395,"body":"millions of dollars, failing on"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2056.445,"endTime":2058.614,"body":"that decision, it's very, very hard."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2058.875,"endTime":2063.655,"body":"And there is a risk aversion, which is"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2058.875,"endTime":2063.655,"body":"very natural in humans, that we would"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2063.655,"endTime":2067.165,"body":"rather take that ownership instead"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2063.655,"endTime":2067.165,"body":"of relying on something that we don't"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2067.165,"endTime":2069.114,"body":"understand completely the process."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2069.355,"endTime":2072.835,"body":"Even though maybe that process"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2069.355,"endTime":2072.835,"body":"is better than our judgment."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2072.965,"endTime":2074.855,"body":"But it's human nature, I guess."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2074.915,"endTime":2076.115,"body":"We need a lot of education."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2076.345,"endTime":2078.595,"body":"Yeah and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2076.345,"endTime":2078.595,"body":"guess it's also much easier to stop"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2078.625,"endTime":2083.665,"body":"using AI than it is to move on a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2078.625,"endTime":2083.665,"body":"staff member, which is much more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2083.665,"endTime":2085.375,"body":"confronting, or discipline them even."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2085.375,"endTime":2087.535,"body":"So it's quite multifaceted probably."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2088.165,"endTime":2091.255,"body":"I guess, following on from that a little"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2088.165,"endTime":2091.255,"body":"bit, we've talked a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2091.255,"endTime":2096.595,"body":"understanding and education, but I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2091.255,"endTime":2096.595,"body":"in AI something that's remarked upon a lot"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2096.595,"endTime":2102.355,"body":"by people, particularly who are working"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2096.595,"endTime":2102.355,"body":"directly with it, is the ability of some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2102.355,"endTime":2105.745,"body":"of these systems and particularly some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2102.355,"endTime":2105.745,"body":"of these newer algorithms to be very"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2105.745,"endTime":2107.875,"body":"powerful, but also to be black boxes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2108.325,"endTime":2111.775,"body":"And I've certainly found in my"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2108.325,"endTime":2111.775,"body":"experience that in order to achieve"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2111.805,"endTime":2116.754,"body":"buy-in from a coach or in fact almost"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2111.805,"endTime":2116.754,"body":"any other stakeholder, they often want"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2116.754,"endTime":2121.23,"body":"to be able to understand and interpret"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2116.754,"endTime":2121.23,"body":"components of a model or algorithm."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2121.92,"endTime":2125.4,"body":"And I think that's human nature as"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2121.92,"endTime":2125.4,"body":"well, but sometimes it's also because"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2125.4,"endTime":2129.48,"body":"they want to almost compare the way"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2125.4,"endTime":2129.48,"body":"they are arriving at a decision with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2129.48,"endTime":2130.62,"body":"the way that the algorithm would."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2131.22,"endTime":2134.335,"body":"But of course, this is a quandary"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2131.22,"endTime":2134.335,"body":"because as we get more and more data,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2134.335,"endTime":2136.795,"body":"as you mentioned in the introduction"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2134.335,"endTime":2136.795,"body":"there, we're going to have hundreds"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2136.795,"endTime":2139.465,"body":"and thousands of inputs that are going"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2136.795,"endTime":2139.465,"body":"to be going into these algorithms."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2140.035,"endTime":2141.505,"body":"So we might not have much of a choice."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2141.505,"endTime":2145.315,"body":"So moving forward towards the future,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2141.505,"endTime":2145.315,"body":"do you think we are always going to need"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2145.315,"endTime":2147.565,"body":"to know how AI arrives at an answer?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2147.835,"endTime":2150.775,"body":"Are there situations in sport where"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2147.835,"endTime":2150.775,"body":"it might be okay that we don't know?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2151.105,"endTime":2153.445,"body":"And I guess vice versa, where"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2151.105,"endTime":2153.445,"body":"could it be an absolute disaster?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2154.165,"endTime":2158.41,"body":"Yeah, I think the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2154.165,"endTime":2158.41,"body":"question is more generic, meaning any"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2158.41,"endTime":2161.319,"body":"implementation process requires time."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2161.77,"endTime":2165.41,"body":"And I would say that when you are"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2161.77,"endTime":2165.41,"body":"implementing AI in an organisation,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2165.85,"endTime":2170.5,"body":"for people that are not versed on"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2165.85,"endTime":2170.5,"body":"AI at all, I think that you have"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2170.5,"endTime":2175.6,"body":"to first build models and decision"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2170.5,"endTime":2175.6,"body":"support systems that are easier for"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2175.6,"endTime":2180.669,"body":"the end user to understand in order"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2175.6,"endTime":2180.669,"body":"for them to embrace it and accept it."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2181.12,"endTime":2183.399,"body":"And that's the first"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2181.12,"endTime":2183.399,"body":"step of implementation."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2183.79,"endTime":2190.18,"body":"Now, when that is implemented and the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2183.79,"endTime":2190.18,"body":"end user finds useful the DSS, the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2190.18,"endTime":2193.96,"body":"decision support system that you've"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2190.18,"endTime":2193.96,"body":"developed - their decisions are better,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2194.14,"endTime":2198.279,"body":"or the decision-making process is"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2194.14,"endTime":2198.279,"body":"faster and more efficient, one or the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2198.279,"endTime":2203.259,"body":"other or both - then you can sacrifice"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2198.279,"endTime":2203.259,"body":"a little bit more the interpretability"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2203.259,"endTime":2205.54,"body":"of the model, going for more accuracy."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2205.779,"endTime":2209.529,"body":"But in order to do that, you need a"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2205.779,"endTime":2209.529,"body":"maturity in your organisation first."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2209.529,"endTime":2210.61,"body":"And again, education."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2210.819,"endTime":2214.54,"body":"Implementation slowly with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2210.819,"endTime":2214.54,"body":"explanation of the reasoning behind the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2214.54,"endTime":2218.56,"body":"model, and then you can then sacrifice"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2214.54,"endTime":2218.56,"body":"a little bit more that interpretability"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2218.83,"endTime":2223.81,"body":"with acceptance from the end user"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2218.83,"endTime":2223.81,"body":"and go for more accurate and more a"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2223.87,"endTime":2225.85,"body":"black box model, if that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2226.2,"endTime":2226.65,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2226.65,"endTime":2230.59,"body":"So it's a bit of a process to you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2226.65,"endTime":2230.59,"body":"of education, but also rolling out"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2230.61,"endTime":2234.81,"body":"to complexity, which of course in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2230.61,"endTime":2234.81,"body":"computer science is a term called"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2234.81,"endTime":2238.59,"body":"'regularisation', where we're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2234.81,"endTime":2238.59,"body":"penalising an excessively complex model."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2238.71,"endTime":2242.31,"body":"And I think you've just provided a good"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2238.71,"endTime":2242.31,"body":"example of how that's useful practically."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2243.18,"endTime":2245.4,"body":"I want to come back to something"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2243.18,"endTime":2245.4,"body":"you mentioned earlier on,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2245.4,"endTime":2248.58,"body":"which was efficiency, as a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2245.4,"endTime":2248.58,"body":"word you talked about with AI."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2248.58,"endTime":2252.665,"body":"And I think a lot of people when you think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2248.58,"endTime":2252.665,"body":"of AI, particularly those that aren't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2252.665,"endTime":2257.855,"body":"working directly in that area, talk a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2252.665,"endTime":2257.855,"body":"lot about prediction and automation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2258.125,"endTime":2262.624,"body":"And obviously automation is quite well"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2258.125,"endTime":2262.624,"body":"linked to efficiency, but I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2262.624,"endTime":2266.285,"body":"almost something that people think of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2262.624,"endTime":2266.285,"body":"second relative to prediction, because"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2266.285,"endTime":2268.565,"body":"that's the glossy output, I guess."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2269.105,"endTime":2273.279,"body":"But on the ladder in terms of improved"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2269.105,"endTime":2273.279,"body":"insights, have you seen anything in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2273.279,"endTime":2277.149,"body":"sports science or in sports performance"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2273.279,"endTime":2277.149,"body":"-  you've obviously worked in this area for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2277.149,"endTime":2282.279,"body":"quite a while now - where AI has really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2277.149,"endTime":2282.279,"body":"started to challenge well-held beliefs"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2282.279,"endTime":2286.45,"body":"or models or theories of sport that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2282.279,"endTime":2286.45,"body":"are now kind of being proved redundant"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2286.45,"endTime":2288.49,"body":"with so much new data and AI coming in?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2290.22,"endTime":2292.62,"body":"Yeah, that first"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2290.22,"endTime":2292.62,"body":"thing, or the first topic that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2292.65,"endTime":2294.81,"body":"comes to mind is injury prediction."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2294.81,"endTime":2301.29,"body":"I mean, it's something that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2294.81,"endTime":2301.29,"body":"vendors and consultants are using to sell"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2301.29,"endTime":2303.31,"body":"their products, is injury prediction."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2303.31,"endTime":2307.41,"body":"We have beautiful machine learning"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2303.31,"endTime":2307.41,"body":"behind our systems that predict"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2307.44,"endTime":2311.55,"body":"injuries and this is something that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2307.44,"endTime":2311.55,"body":"lots of organisations have tried"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2311.58,"endTime":2315.36,"body":"internally with very good experts and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2311.58,"endTime":2315.36,"body":"data scientists, trying to model that."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2315.78,"endTime":2320.69,"body":"Very important vendors have tried that,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2315.78,"endTime":2320.69,"body":"but at least in my personal opinion"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2320.69,"endTime":2326.43,"body":"and talking with several colleagues, we"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2320.69,"endTime":2326.43,"body":"haven't found that tool that we can really"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2326.43,"endTime":2329.61,"body":"rely on to actually predict an injury."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2329.88,"endTime":2331.85,"body":"And the reasons are many."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2332.24,"endTime":2336.435,"body":"One of them is, do we really"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2332.24,"endTime":2336.435,"body":"have the data, or can we really"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2336.435,"endTime":2341.475,"body":"measure the KPIs that will provide"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2336.435,"endTime":2341.475,"body":"us, or the model, something to"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2341.475,"endTime":2343.755,"body":"predict accurately the injury?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2344.155,"endTime":2348.255,"body":"Well I don't know, maybe eventually"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2344.155,"endTime":2348.255,"body":"we will with technology, but I"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2348.255,"endTime":2351.405,"body":"don't think that right now we are"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2348.255,"endTime":2351.405,"body":"measuring what really matters."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2351.795,"endTime":2355.875,"body":"That's one and two is, are we"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2351.795,"endTime":2355.875,"body":"measuring those KPIs, if we"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2355.875,"endTime":2358.12,"body":"really have them, often enough?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2358.149,"endTime":2363.759,"body":"Or are we inferring those injury"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2358.149,"endTime":2363.759,"body":"risks on game data that we're"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2363.759,"endTime":2368.919,"body":"playing every seven days and we"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2363.759,"endTime":2368.919,"body":"disregard the six days in between?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2369.25,"endTime":2372.869,"body":"Are we really capturing - everyone"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2369.25,"endTime":2372.869,"body":"is talking about how important sleep"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2372.919,"endTime":2377.649,"body":"is or hydration is - are we capturing"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2372.919,"endTime":2377.649,"body":"sleep for every single player every"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2377.649,"endTime":2380.14,"body":"day and imputing that in the model?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2380.379,"endTime":2386.35,"body":"I think that we are making a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2380.379,"endTime":2386.35,"body":"assumptions and making pretty blunt claims"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2386.62,"endTime":2390.819,"body":"that are dangerous for the industry, not"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2386.62,"endTime":2390.819,"body":"just for the industry, but also for AI."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2390.819,"endTime":2395.68,"body":"When we want to implement AI, if it's"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2390.819,"endTime":2395.68,"body":"being used wrongly, it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2395.68,"endTime":2397.779,"body":"harder for us to implement later on."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2398.049,"endTime":2405.29,"body":"It's definitely a use to contextualise"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2398.049,"endTime":2405.29,"body":"the player status that may infer or"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2405.29,"endTime":2410.6,"body":"be related to injury risk, but we have"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2405.29,"endTime":2410.6,"body":"to be very smart in how we do that."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2410.6,"endTime":2414.589,"body":"We need to know our limitations"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2410.6,"endTime":2414.589,"body":"and we need to keep growing and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2414.65,"endTime":2419.12,"body":"implementing the right technology,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2414.65,"endTime":2419.12,"body":"having various smart data systems."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2419.12,"endTime":2426.694,"body":"And with this I also mean data workflows,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2419.12,"endTime":2426.694,"body":"not just acquiring a new device that has"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2426.694,"endTime":2431.555,"body":"been proved to be good to assess hamstring"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2426.694,"endTime":2431.555,"body":"strength and another one that it has been"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2431.555,"endTime":2438.095,"body":"proved good to assess sprint on court"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2431.555,"endTime":2438.095,"body":"or speed on court, but we have them in"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2438.095,"endTime":2440.165,"body":"isolation, they don't talk to each other."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2440.225,"endTime":2444.305,"body":"And then we have a sleep monitor that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2440.225,"endTime":2444.305,"body":"doesn't talk to the hamstring strength."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2444.665,"endTime":2449.075,"body":"I think that having the right KPIs,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2444.665,"endTime":2449.075,"body":"having the right data workflow and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2449.075,"endTime":2451.399,"body":"then having the right model is good."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2451.399,"endTime":2455.6,"body":"And once you have that first"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2451.399,"endTime":2455.6,"body":"step, making smart decisions with"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2455.6,"endTime":2459.529,"body":"information that that model is giving"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2455.6,"endTime":2459.529,"body":"you and being very careful with it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2460.06,"endTime":2460.24,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2460.24,"endTime":2463.48,"body":"My mind's kind of going to a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2460.24,"endTime":2463.48,"body":"different places hearing you speak there,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2464.049,"endTime":2469.42,"body":"but I'm thinking a little bit about the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2464.049,"endTime":2469.42,"body":"importance of organisations working very"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2469.42,"endTime":2473.11,"body":"closely with industry, in particular,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2469.42,"endTime":2473.11,"body":"in the technology and the startup area."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2473.71,"endTime":2476.29,"body":"And I'm also thinking about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2473.71,"endTime":2476.29,"body":"the skill sets of people that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2476.29,"endTime":2477.68,"body":"are working in organisations."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2477.7,"endTime":2481.84,"body":"And you mentioned infrastructure and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2477.7,"endTime":2481.84,"body":"communication, and these are things that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2481.84,"endTime":2486.73,"body":"can often get glossed over in, I guess, in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2481.84,"endTime":2486.73,"body":"replacement for someone being brought into"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2486.73,"endTime":2488.47,"body":"an organisation to build a fancy model."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2489.07,"endTime":2493.96,"body":"I'll talk about the roles and skill sets"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2489.07,"endTime":2493.96,"body":"of people working in sport in a moment,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2493.96,"endTime":2498.94,"body":"but just on the first point, I wonder,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2493.96,"endTime":2498.94,"body":"it does seem from your response and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2498.94,"endTime":2503.61,"body":"would totally agree with this, that the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2498.94,"endTime":2503.61,"body":"algorithms are maybe, or the AI itself,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2503.61,"endTime":2507.64,"body":"is maybe at a stage where it's probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2503.61,"endTime":2507.64,"body":"quite sufficient for our use in sport, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2507.64,"endTime":2510.94,"body":"it's the inputs coming into these models"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2507.64,"endTime":2510.94,"body":"that need the greatest amount of work."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2511.51,"endTime":2515.74,"body":"Are sports and universities and all"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2511.51,"endTime":2515.74,"body":"of these other stakeholders in sport"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2515.74,"endTime":2520.025,"body":"working well enough with the startup"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2515.74,"endTime":2520.025,"body":"industry to make sure they're focusing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2520.025,"endTime":2521.615,"body":"their time and energy on the right areas?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2521.615,"endTime":2526.265,"body":"I wonder, for example, if I think about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2521.615,"endTime":2526.265,"body":"how we evaluate a player in any team"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2526.265,"endTime":2529.924,"body":"sport, I think we do a reasonably good"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2526.265,"endTime":2529.924,"body":"job of connecting on the technical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2529.924,"endTime":2534.125,"body":"elements and probably the physical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2529.924,"endTime":2534.125,"body":"as well, but we do such a poor job"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2534.125,"endTime":2537.665,"body":"of measuring those human factors of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2534.125,"endTime":2537.665,"body":"a player's performance, like their"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2537.665,"endTime":2542.875,"body":"communication, their mood, their ability"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2537.665,"endTime":2542.875,"body":"to help a team self-organise even."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2543.015,"endTime":2547.845,"body":"The way that they are cohesive with a unit"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2543.015,"endTime":2547.845,"body":"on the floor or the pitch or the field."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2548.445,"endTime":2550.035,"body":"Is that something you'd agree with?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2550.985,"endTime":2552.155,"body":"I agree 100%."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2552.155,"endTime":2555.935,"body":"Actually, not long ago, we had an"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2552.155,"endTime":2555.935,"body":"internal meeting and something that we"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2555.935,"endTime":2561.81,"body":"were discussing in an informal discussion"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2555.935,"endTime":2561.81,"body":"about KPIs - specifically on defense"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2561.81,"endTime":2565.56,"body":"but it could be used on offence - and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2561.81,"endTime":2565.56,"body":"something that we all agreed, and I had"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2565.56,"endTime":2570.23,"body":"this conversation with colleagues in the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2565.56,"endTime":2570.23,"body":"past, is we found ourselves talking all"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2570.23,"endTime":2575.54,"body":"the time  about how important the intent"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2570.23,"endTime":2575.54,"body":"of the player was to do this or that."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2575.6,"endTime":2577.79,"body":"Okay, how are you measuring intent?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2578.06,"endTime":2580.73,"body":"Intent is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2578.06,"endTime":2580.73,"body":"impossible to measure."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2581.18,"endTime":2584.6,"body":"And if intent is something that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2581.18,"endTime":2584.6,"body":"is very relevant to actually"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2584.6,"endTime":2589.42,"body":"assess how well that player is"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2584.6,"endTime":2589.42,"body":"performing, well we're in trouble,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2589.78,"endTime":2592.06,"body":"because we are missing a huge KPI."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2592.51,"endTime":2597.46,"body":"Besides intent, which is a very, very good"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2592.51,"endTime":2597.46,"body":"example of an unmeasurable thing - because"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2597.46,"endTime":2602.64,"body":"we will never know if the player really"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2597.46,"endTime":2602.64,"body":"wanted to do that or was just speculating"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2603.11,"endTime":2607.6,"body":"- the other thing that's interesting is"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2603.11,"endTime":2607.6,"body":"when the player is not doing something."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2607.81,"endTime":2610.39,"body":"Measuring that reliably"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2607.81,"endTime":2610.39,"body":"is really, really hard."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2610.39,"endTime":2615.28,"body":"There are players that have a huge"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2610.39,"endTime":2615.28,"body":"influence on defense because they are"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2615.28,"endTime":2621.04,"body":"not doing something and that not doing"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2615.28,"endTime":2621.04,"body":"something from a team perspective,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2621.07,"endTime":2625.72,"body":"team behavior perspective, maybe you"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2621.07,"endTime":2625.72,"body":"can infer it, but this is another"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2625.75,"endTime":2628.09,"body":"really hard, immeasurable thing."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2628.12,"endTime":2633.09,"body":"So I would agree with your statement 100%"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2628.12,"endTime":2633.09,"body":"percent and two days ago we were talking"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2633.09,"endTime":2634.8,"body":"about it, I mean, what defines what?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2635.01,"endTime":2637.97,"body":"Yeah, again, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2635.01,"endTime":2637.97,"body":"think the more complex a team sport, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2637.97,"endTime":2639.86,"body":"harder it is to separate that intent."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2640.4,"endTime":2643.01,"body":"It does make you wonder about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2640.4,"endTime":2643.01,"body":"the football codes and basketball"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2643.01,"endTime":2646.1,"body":"codes, that is a whole nother"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2643.01,"endTime":2646.1,"body":"challenge to get to that level."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2646.31,"endTime":2650.49,"body":"I'll come back to my second point"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2646.31,"endTime":2650.49,"body":"now, while I remember, on the staff"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2650.51,"endTime":2651.98,"body":"and the structure of the workforce."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2651.98,"endTime":2655.589,"body":"And you might talk about this in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2651.98,"endTime":2655.589,"body":"terms of basketball and your own"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2655.589,"endTime":2659.49,"body":"experience, but also more generally,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2655.589,"endTime":2659.49,"body":"what does this mean for how we're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2659.49,"endTime":2660.97,"body":"structuring our sporting organisations?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2660.97,"endTime":2665.22,"body":"Obviously we're seeing people with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2660.97,"endTime":2665.22,"body":"data science skillsets and computer"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2665.22,"endTime":2668.559,"body":"science skillsets now cropping up"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2665.22,"endTime":2668.559,"body":"in most sporting organisations,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2668.58,"endTime":2670.59,"body":"but have we got the balance right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2670.88,"endTime":2673.11,"body":"Are they the skillsets that we"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2670.88,"endTime":2673.11,"body":"need and how's it going to look"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2673.11,"endTime":2673.98,"body":"in the future, do you think?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2674.75,"endTime":2677.42,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2674.75,"endTime":2677.42,"body":"that there are three big blocks"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2677.57,"endTime":2679.88,"body":"that we need to cover for sure."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2680.3,"endTime":2682.34,"body":"It doesn't mean that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2680.3,"endTime":2682.34,"body":"you need three people."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2682.37,"endTime":2685.64,"body":"Maybe you have hybrid roles that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2682.37,"endTime":2685.64,"body":"are covering more than one, but"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2685.64,"endTime":2688.16,"body":"there are three roles that I think"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2685.64,"endTime":2688.16,"body":"that we need to cover for sure."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2689.1,"endTime":2692.52,"body":"One is the IT, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2689.1,"endTime":2692.52,"body":"information technologies."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2692.55,"endTime":2696.69,"body":"You need someone that is in charge"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2692.55,"endTime":2696.69,"body":"of that hardware and making sure that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2696.69,"endTime":2700.71,"body":"we have the right technology in place"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2696.69,"endTime":2700.71,"body":"to build our information systems."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2701.37,"endTime":2704.21,"body":"The other one is data engineers."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2704.64,"endTime":2709.31,"body":"Sometimes that's a hybrid in between the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2704.64,"endTime":2709.31,"body":"IT or data engineer, or a data scientist"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2709.31,"endTime":2715.03,"body":"that is a data engineer, but someone"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2709.31,"endTime":2715.03,"body":"needs to make sure that we are connecting"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2715.03,"endTime":2719.89,"body":"the different databases, the different"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2715.03,"endTime":2719.89,"body":"tables, the different departments, and not"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2719.89,"endTime":2722.08,"body":"that each department is living in a silo."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2722.35,"endTime":2725.59,"body":"Having someone that has the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2722.35,"endTime":2725.59,"body":"big picture, not just from the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2725.59,"endTime":2728.86,"body":"decision-making perspective, but"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2725.59,"endTime":2728.86,"body":"also from the technical aspect."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2728.89,"endTime":2732.97,"body":"What's the best data structure that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2728.89,"endTime":2732.97,"body":"you want behind your models and behind"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2732.97,"endTime":2735.07,"body":"your AI, is absolutely critical."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2735.49,"endTime":2738.64,"body":"And then when those two fundamental"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2735.49,"endTime":2738.64,"body":"pieces are in place, then you"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2738.64,"endTime":2740.32,"body":"have to have a data scientist."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2740.65,"endTime":2746.76,"body":"Data scientist slash the new sport"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2740.65,"endTime":2746.76,"body":"scientist, which is a hybrid between"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2746.76,"endTime":2752.28,"body":"data scientist and a specific field"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2746.76,"endTime":2752.28,"body":"in sport performance, which maybe is"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2752.55,"endTime":2755.71,"body":"psychology, maybe it's strength and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2752.55,"endTime":2755.71,"body":"conditioning, maybe it's physiology,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2756.0,"endTime":2761.41,"body":"whatever it is, but it's clearly focused"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2756.0,"endTime":2761.41,"body":"and his toolkit has a lot of strengths"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2761.59,"endTime":2763.68,"body":"in data management and data analysis."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2764.01,"endTime":2769.44,"body":"But those three blocks, I think that not"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2764.01,"endTime":2769.44,"body":"just in the future organisations, today"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2769.59,"endTime":2775.29,"body":"you need to be sound and you need to"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2769.59,"endTime":2775.29,"body":"be very good at data workflow and data"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2775.29,"endTime":2778.23,"body":"engineering, IT, and then data science."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2778.49,"endTime":2781.64,"body":"And again, if you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2778.49,"endTime":2781.64,"body":"can find someone with all those skillsets,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2781.67,"endTime":2785.359,"body":"they may well be a unicorn, but I guess"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2781.67,"endTime":2785.359,"body":"that makes them even more valuable."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2786.11,"endTime":2790.37,"body":"So just wanted to, before I let you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2786.11,"endTime":2790.37,"body":"go, just one more question relating"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2790.37,"endTime":2792.65,"body":"again to the future of AI, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2793.04,"endTime":2796.97,"body":"We kind of talked about this in our"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2793.04,"endTime":2796.97,"body":"opening, but which of those big areas"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2796.97,"endTime":2798.32,"body":"are getting the benefit from sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2798.32,"endTime":2803.48,"body":"But I think as we've spoken, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2798.32,"endTime":2803.48,"body":"about AI being more than just algorithms"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2803.48,"endTime":2807.26,"body":"and more than just systems and much"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2803.48,"endTime":2807.26,"body":"more about the data inputs as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2807.99,"endTime":2811.98,"body":"As I think of it now, I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2807.99,"endTime":2811.98,"body":"geneticist, but I feel like the genetics"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2811.98,"endTime":2815.91,"body":"field is probably an area that's going"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2811.98,"endTime":2815.91,"body":"to benefit from AI as we uncover more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2816.21,"endTime":2818.399,"body":"insights from there in the future."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2818.399,"endTime":2821.669,"body":"And the other area that comes to mind is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2818.399,"endTime":2821.669,"body":"probably unstructured data from vision."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2821.669,"endTime":2824.7,"body":"And particularly with markerless"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2821.669,"endTime":2824.7,"body":"3D motion capture now starting"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2824.7,"endTime":2826.68,"body":"to become a reality, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2827.319,"endTime":2829.9,"body":"Can you think of other areas or you would"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2827.319,"endTime":2829.9,"body":"agree that they're probably two of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2829.9,"endTime":2834.22,"body":"ones that are most ripe over the next 10"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2829.9,"endTime":2834.22,"body":"or 20 years to really benefit from AI?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2834.72,"endTime":2836.64,"body":"I think that"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2834.72,"endTime":2836.64,"body":"yeah, you are right on the money."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2836.64,"endTime":2840.75,"body":"I think computer vision, which with a"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2836.64,"endTime":2840.75,"body":"lot of different branches underneath"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2840.75,"endTime":2845.89,"body":"computer vision, including imaging"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2840.75,"endTime":2845.89,"body":"and a good example is how to read an"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2846.21,"endTime":2851.41,"body":"MRI or how to interpret a painting"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2846.21,"endTime":2851.41,"body":"from the emotional side, which"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2851.66,"endTime":2853.0,"body":"there is some research about it."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2853.0,"endTime":2856.45,"body":"But analyzing images, there"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2853.0,"endTime":2856.45,"body":"is a huge field there."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2856.66,"endTime":2860.29,"body":"Also another branch in computer"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2856.66,"endTime":2860.29,"body":"science is all the tracking systems and"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2860.29,"endTime":2862.279,"body":"markerless tracking  systems in sport."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2862.9,"endTime":2863.65,"body":"That's huge."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2863.98,"endTime":2867.87,"body":"And there is a lot of data,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2863.98,"endTime":2867.87,"body":"25 data points per second."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2868.08,"endTime":2872.91,"body":"With, in our case, ten players on court, a"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2868.08,"endTime":2872.91,"body":"lot of information to analyse right there."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2873.3,"endTime":2877.62,"body":"The other thing that I think that will"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2873.3,"endTime":2877.62,"body":"benefit a lot are two more branches."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2877.62,"endTime":2881.37,"body":"I think that, as I was saying before,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2877.62,"endTime":2881.37,"body":"talent identification and roster"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2881.37,"endTime":2887.21,"body":"management are fields that are currently"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2881.37,"endTime":2887.21,"body":"being benefited from AI because it"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2887.27,"endTime":2892.49,"body":"allows you to simulate, which is another"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2887.27,"endTime":2892.49,"body":"very important word that AI will allow"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2892.49,"endTime":2898.97,"body":"us to do, is simulating your future"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2892.49,"endTime":2898.97,"body":"team without actually making the trade."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2899.21,"endTime":2903.8,"body":"Meaning, if I cluster this type of"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2899.21,"endTime":2903.8,"body":"player that I'm looking for, which is"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2903.8,"endTime":2910.315,"body":"a type A player, I want to find this"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2903.8,"endTime":2910.315,"body":"type A player and put it in my team"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2910.375,"endTime":2912.535,"body":"and what's the effect on my output?"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2912.895,"endTime":2916.975,"body":"Those types of simulations are endless"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2912.895,"endTime":2916.975,"body":"and that's where machine learning"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2916.975,"endTime":2922.85,"body":"and AI is very good at classifying,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2916.975,"endTime":2922.85,"body":"clustering, and then simulating outputs"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2922.91,"endTime":2924.77,"body":"and playing endlessly with that."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2925.16,"endTime":2929.81,"body":"And when you tie the team performance,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2925.16,"endTime":2929.81,"body":"the player performance, with the salary"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2929.81,"endTime":2935.87,"body":"cap and the budget, then it's a very"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2929.81,"endTime":2935.87,"body":"powerful tool where you are simulating"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2936.17,"endTime":2940.25,"body":"performance of the team related"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2936.17,"endTime":2940.25,"body":"to money that you have to invest."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2940.52,"endTime":2945.08,"body":"That's a huge field where teams"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2940.52,"endTime":2945.08,"body":"are playing with AI already."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2945.685,"endTime":2948.475,"body":"And I'm sure that they will grow this"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2945.685,"endTime":2948.475,"body":"because at the end of the day, they"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2948.475,"endTime":2950.275,"body":"are managing the budget of the teams."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2950.665,"endTime":2953.905,"body":"And the other aspect that I think, the"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2950.665,"endTime":2953.905,"body":"third aspect that I think that we will"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2953.905,"endTime":2959.305,"body":"benefit from, is not just from medicine,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2953.905,"endTime":2959.305,"body":"not just from the imaging side, I"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2959.305,"endTime":2963.565,"body":"think that there is a lot on medicine"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2959.305,"endTime":2963.565,"body":"slash performance where biomechanics"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2963.925,"endTime":2969.025,"body":"and understanding the complexities of"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2963.925,"endTime":2969.025,"body":"human movement, AI will be for sure,"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2969.195,"endTime":2971.634,"body":"is already, being very, very useful."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2971.815,"endTime":2978.9,"body":"But once we understand how complex systems"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2971.815,"endTime":2978.9,"body":"work and we use smartly AI to deconstruct"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2978.9,"endTime":2983.799,"body":"that complexity, skill acquisition"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2978.9,"endTime":2983.799,"body":"and injury prevention can be fields"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2983.799,"endTime":2986.1,"body":"that will be hugely benefited from AI."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":2986.22,"endTime":2987.09,"body":"100%."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2987.46,"endTime":2988.62,"body":"I absolutely agree."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2988.62,"endTime":2993.779,"body":"And hopefully the current students"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2988.62,"endTime":2993.779,"body":"studying sports science and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2993.779,"endTime":2997.72,"body":"sports engineering, etc, are all"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2993.779,"endTime":2997.72,"body":"having a good look at, well a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2997.74,"endTime":2998.88,"body":"good listen to that, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2998.88,"endTime":3002.09,"body":"Because these are the hard skills"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":2998.88,"endTime":3002.09,"body":"it'll be really important to develop."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3002.6,"endTime":3006.385,"body":"On that note, thank you Xavi for joining"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3002.6,"endTime":3006.385,"body":"us on the show and sharing some of your"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3006.415,"endTime":3008.515,"body":"insightful perspectives on AI in sport."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":3009.135,"endTime":3009.735,"body":"Thank you, Sam."},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":3009.755,"endTime":3012.575,"body":"I'm very excited to be a part of"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":3009.755,"endTime":3012.575,"body":"this project because I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":3012.605,"endTime":3017.085,"body":"great idea and it's the future of our"},{"speaker":"Dr Xavi Schelling","startTime":3012.605,"endTime":3017.085,"body":"field, if not the present right now."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3027.779,"endTime":3030.39,"body":"And now some final"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3027.779,"endTime":3030.39,"body":"thoughts from me on today's question."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3030.81,"endTime":3034.2,"body":"It seems that the inner workings of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3030.81,"endTime":3034.2,"body":"AI will, for the short term at least,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3034.319,"endTime":3036.209,"body":"largely remain a mystery to many of us."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3037.08,"endTime":3040.319,"body":"But this hidden and mysterious"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3037.08,"endTime":3040.319,"body":"nature of AI is actually inherent."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3040.95,"endTime":3044.189,"body":"It is, after all, the covert"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3040.95,"endTime":3044.189,"body":"implementation of AI that actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3044.189,"endTime":3046.35,"body":"helps to make our lives so much easier."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3046.799,"endTime":3049.89,"body":"If we were noticing it all of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3046.799,"endTime":3049.89,"body":"the time, chances are it wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3049.89,"endTime":3051.12,"body":"be doing its job properly."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3051.4,"endTime":3055.25,"body":"Having said this, definitions of AI"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3051.4,"endTime":3055.25,"body":"need to be and can be made clearer."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3055.54,"endTime":3058.81,"body":"The many benefits of doing this were"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3055.54,"endTime":3058.81,"body":"mentioned all throughout this episode."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3059.2,"endTime":3063.31,"body":"If we can do that, we're able to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3059.2,"endTime":3063.31,"body":"start demystifying AI and talking more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3063.31,"endTime":3065.5,"body":"specifically about what we actually mean."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3066.06,"endTime":3069.66,"body":"Processing, databasing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3066.06,"endTime":3069.66,"body":"machine learning, automation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3069.93,"endTime":3073.29,"body":"And of course doing this also allows"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3069.93,"endTime":3073.29,"body":"us to evaluate both its impact"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3073.32,"endTime":3075.24,"body":"and shortcomings more accurately."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3075.63,"endTime":3078.21,"body":"It also seems that sport's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3075.63,"endTime":3078.21,"body":"generally cautious approach"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3078.21,"endTime":3081.78,"body":"to date, to the widespread"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3078.21,"endTime":3081.78,"body":"implementation of AI, is well-placed."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3082.2,"endTime":3086.49,"body":"We're right to hold AI to a much higher"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3082.2,"endTime":3086.49,"body":"level of scrutiny than we do of humans."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3086.839,"endTime":3090.29,"body":"It's ability to impact at scale"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3086.839,"endTime":3090.29,"body":"is far greater, and we have the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3090.29,"endTime":3093.98,"body":"ability to design it how we want,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3090.29,"endTime":3093.98,"body":"rather than let it conform us."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3094.58,"endTime":3099.049,"body":"But of course, it's also this scalability"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3094.58,"endTime":3099.049,"body":"that makes AI so powerful and attractive."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3099.68,"endTime":3102.44,"body":"Thankfully, as we've heard, there"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3099.68,"endTime":3102.44,"body":"are people and teams working to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3102.44,"endTime":3104.21,"body":"ensure its appropriate governance."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3104.75,"endTime":3108.259,"body":"There's no doubt that complex simulations"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3104.75,"endTime":3108.259,"body":"and real time predictions are on the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3108.259,"endTime":3110.6,"body":"near horizon for many areas in sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3111.225,"endTime":3114.165,"body":"But it's perhaps the more mundane"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3111.225,"endTime":3114.165,"body":"aspects which have the ability to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3114.165,"endTime":3116.865,"body":"save us time and make our work easier."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3117.825,"endTime":3121.354,"body":"In sport, however, these benefits"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3117.825,"endTime":3121.354,"body":"still remain largely unrealised."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3121.575,"endTime":3125.654,"body":"As almost anyone working in sport would"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3121.575,"endTime":3125.654,"body":"no doubt agree though, that is a form of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3125.654,"endTime":3127.904,"body":"help that would be very much appreciated."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3128.355,"endTime":3131.384,"body":"I'm Sam Robinson, and this"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3128.355,"endTime":3131.384,"body":"has been One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3132.185,"endTime":3134.765,"body":"Join us next episode, where"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3132.185,"endTime":3134.765,"body":"we'll be asking: Will your"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson (Host)","startTime":3134.765,"endTime":3136.415,"body":"job exists in the future?"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3137.775,"endTime":3141.645,"body":"One Track Mind is brought"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3137.775,"endTime":3141.645,"body":"to you by Track and Victoria University."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3142.615,"endTime":3146.725,"body":"Our host is Professor Sam Robertson"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3142.615,"endTime":3146.725,"body":"and our producer is Lara Chan-Baker."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3146.955,"endTime":3147.495,"body":"That's me!"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3148.545,"endTime":3152.685,"body":"If you care about these issues as"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3148.545,"endTime":3152.685,"body":"much as we do, please support us by"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3152.685,"endTime":3156.675,"body":"subscribing, leaving a review on iTunes,"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3152.685,"endTime":3156.675,"body":"and recommending the show to a friend."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3157.305,"endTime":3160.065,"body":"It only takes a minute, but"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3157.305,"endTime":3160.065,"body":"it makes all the difference."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3160.725,"endTime":3163.785,"body":"If you want more where this"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3160.725,"endTime":3163.785,"body":"came from, follow us on Twitter"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3163.845,"endTime":3169.575,"body":"@trackvu, on Instagram @track.vu,"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3163.845,"endTime":3169.575,"body":"or just head to trackvu.com."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3170.235,"endTime":3172.545,"body":"While  you're there, why not"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3170.235,"endTime":3172.545,"body":"sign up for our newsletter?"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3173.055,"endTime":3176.625,"body":"It's a regular dose of sports science"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3173.055,"endTime":3176.625,"body":"insights from our leading team of"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3176.625,"endTime":3180.029,"body":"researchers, with links to further"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3176.625,"endTime":3180.029,"body":"reading on each episode topic."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3180.779,"endTime":3183.12,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3180.779,"endTime":3183.12,"body":"listening to One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3183.39,"endTime":3184.529,"body":"We will see you soon."}]}