{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":0.21,"endTime":3.81,"body":"In his classic"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":0.21,"endTime":3.81,"body":"novel, 1984, George Orwell dreamt"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3.81,"endTime":8.189,"body":"up the all-seeing, ever-present,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3.81,"endTime":8.189,"body":"omnipotent entity, Big Brother."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":8.79,"endTime":13.92,"body":"This concept of tracking someone's every"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":8.79,"endTime":13.92,"body":"waking - and sleeping - moment was once a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":13.92,"endTime":16.29,"body":"fictional warning of a dystopian future."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":16.8,"endTime":20.56,"body":"Now, I'm far from the first to comment"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":16.8,"endTime":20.56,"body":"on just how accurate some of the book's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":20.58,"endTime":24.96,"body":"predictions turned out to be, but one"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":20.58,"endTime":24.96,"body":"of its eerier parallels is just how"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":24.96,"endTime":29.34,"body":"comfortable and accepting people can"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":24.96,"endTime":29.34,"body":"become of certain conditions when everyone"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":29.34,"endTime":33.93,"body":"is experiencing them, or when there is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":29.34,"endTime":33.93,"body":"limited intervention from outsiders."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":34.29,"endTime":37.29,"body":"For some, the notion of being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":34.29,"endTime":37.29,"body":"tracked every second of every day"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":37.29,"endTime":39.54,"body":"is not such a far-fetched reality."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":39.87,"endTime":43.943,"body":"In modern day sport, many athletes are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":39.87,"endTime":43.943,"body":"being monitored in some way, shape or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":43.943,"endTime":47.658,"body":"form from the second they step into"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":43.943,"endTime":47.658,"body":"the workplace, to the moment they"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":47.658,"endTime":50.238,"body":"leave again, and sometimes even beyond."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":50.748,"endTime":54.528,"body":"In the space of merely a few decades,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":50.748,"endTime":54.528,"body":"we've started measuring the athlete for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":54.528,"endTime":56.341,"body":"just about everything we can think of."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":56.551,"endTime":59.881,"body":"Whether it's self-reported monitoring"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":56.551,"endTime":59.881,"body":"of their health and wellness,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":60.181,"endTime":63.871,"body":"detailed physiological assessments,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":60.181,"endTime":63.871,"body":"or prolific camera tracking of their"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":63.871,"endTime":67.691,"body":"every move - a condition we're all"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":63.871,"endTime":67.691,"body":"too familiar with in broader society"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":67.691,"endTime":70.459,"body":"too - no stone is left unturned."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":70.849,"endTime":74.149,"body":"Undoubtedly, these developments"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":70.849,"endTime":74.149,"body":"have been transformational to the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":74.149,"endTime":78.619,"body":"industry, providing new insights,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":74.149,"endTime":78.619,"body":"refining current practice, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":78.619,"endTime":80.689,"body":"improving overall athlete health."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":81.109,"endTime":84.959,"body":"But how much information is really needed"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":81.109,"endTime":84.959,"body":"in order to understand the athlete?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":85.439,"endTime":89.119,"body":"Are the obvious privacy and ethical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":85.439,"endTime":89.119,"body":"considerations being addressed?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":89.569,"endTime":93.169,"body":"And how much say does the athlete"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":89.569,"endTime":93.169,"body":"really have in what they sign up to?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":93.739,"endTime":96.649,"body":"I'm Sam Robertson and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":93.739,"endTime":96.649,"body":"this is One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":103.029,"endTime":107.589,"body":"Hello and welcome to One Track Mind, a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":103.029,"endTime":107.589,"body":"podcast about the real issues, forces and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":107.589,"endTime":109.839,"body":"innovations shaping the future of sport."},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":110.499,"endTime":114.759,"body":"athlete tracking - how much is too much?"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":115.359,"endTime":117.969,"body":"My first guest is associate"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":115.359,"endTime":117.969,"body":"professor Stuart Morgan."},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":118.469,"endTime":122.139,"body":"Stuart is lead of the Australian Institute"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":118.469,"endTime":122.139,"body":"of Sport's Machine Learning, Artificial"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":122.139,"endTime":124.239,"body":"Intelligence and Data Innovation group."},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":124.739,"endTime":128.864,"body":"He completed his PhD in sensory"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":124.739,"endTime":128.864,"body":"neuroscience at Swinburne University"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":128.864,"endTime":133.094,"body":"in 1999, and has worked as a sports"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":128.864,"endTime":133.094,"body":"analyst at the Victorian Institute of"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":133.094,"endTime":137.354,"body":"Sport and the AIS, including with the"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":133.094,"endTime":137.354,"body":"successful Australian men's hockey"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":137.354,"endTime":139.977,"body":"team at the 2008 Olympic games."},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":140.547,"endTime":144.427,"body":"Stuart is also involved in research,"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":140.547,"endTime":144.427,"body":"having co-authored a competition-winning"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":144.447,"endTime":149.487,"body":"paper at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":144.447,"endTime":149.487,"body":"Conference, and his current work focuses"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":149.487,"endTime":153.567,"body":"on research and development in computer"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":149.487,"endTime":153.567,"body":"vision for sports, including using"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":153.567,"endTime":157.827,"body":"data mining and machine learning to"},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":153.567,"endTime":157.827,"body":"gain competition and training insights."},{"speaker":"On today's episode, we're asking","startTime":158.087,"endTime":159.227,"body":"Stuart, thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":159.557,"endTime":160.457,"body":"Very nice to be with you."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":161.207,"endTime":164.797,"body":"Now, before we get"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":161.207,"endTime":164.797,"body":"into the detail about how computer"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":164.797,"endTime":169.547,"body":"vision is being used around the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":164.797,"endTime":169.547,"body":"world and why it's so fantastic, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":169.547,"endTime":173.057,"body":"completely understandable that some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":169.547,"endTime":173.057,"body":"of our listeners may not be completely"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":173.057,"endTime":177.797,"body":"familiar with what it is and potentially"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":173.057,"endTime":177.797,"body":"some of its current applications now."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":178.197,"endTime":181.077,"body":"The first comment I'd make on it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":178.197,"endTime":181.077,"body":"is it moved incredibly quickly."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":181.127,"endTime":184.887,"body":"I remember, in the football codes, which"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":181.127,"endTime":184.887,"body":"I'm most heavily involved with, going"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":184.887,"endTime":188.537,"body":"from being an utter skeptic maybe just"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":184.887,"endTime":188.537,"body":"a handful of years ago on how good it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":188.537,"endTime":192.474,"body":"could be for positional tracking, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":188.537,"endTime":192.474,"body":"position of a player on the field, to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":192.574,"endTime":196.954,"body":"now being almost completely won over"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":192.574,"endTime":196.954,"body":"about it's maybe a better option than"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":196.954,"endTime":198.394,"body":"other technologies we've got out there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":198.754,"endTime":201.774,"body":"So, as someone that's been involved"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":198.754,"endTime":201.774,"body":"with it for a very long time now, not"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":201.774,"endTime":205.324,"body":"saying that you're old Stuart but been"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":201.774,"endTime":205.324,"body":"around for a while, what are some of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":205.324,"endTime":208.724,"body":"the main applications that we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":205.324,"endTime":208.724,"body":"and what indeed is computer vision?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":209.034,"endTime":210.864,"body":"Well, there's a couple of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":209.034,"endTime":210.864,"body":"questions there, isn't there ? Firstly,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":211.074,"endTime":215.924,"body":"computer vision really at its essence"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":211.074,"endTime":215.924,"body":"is the task of image understanding,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":216.224,"endTime":221.444,"body":"and we want to use the computers to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":216.224,"endTime":221.444,"body":"try to help us understand something"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":221.444,"endTime":223.694,"body":"about what's happening, in this"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":221.444,"endTime":223.694,"body":"case in the sporting environment."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":223.694,"endTime":225.254,"body":"So what are athletes doing?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":225.284,"endTime":226.484,"body":"How fast are they running?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":226.814,"endTime":228.314,"body":"What actions are they performing?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":228.374,"endTime":230.354,"body":"What kind of techniques"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":228.374,"endTime":230.354,"body":"are they executing?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":231.044,"endTime":235.244,"body":"And so, at its essence, computer vision"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":231.044,"endTime":235.244,"body":"is simply about understanding imagery and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":235.574,"endTime":237.744,"body":"video is really just a stream of images."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":237.804,"endTime":241.434,"body":"And what we ask a computer to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":237.804,"endTime":241.434,"body":"do is, at each frame, understand"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":241.434,"endTime":243.144,"body":"something about what's going on."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":243.694,"endTime":246.874,"body":"At a high performance level, though,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":243.694,"endTime":246.874,"body":"the problem becomes more sophisticated."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":246.874,"endTime":250.534,"body":"We're not just asking questions about,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":246.874,"endTime":250.534,"body":"is there an athlete in the scene?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":250.534,"endTime":251.734,"body":"Are they holding a tennis racket?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":252.154,"endTime":255.604,"body":"We're asking more sophisticated"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":252.154,"endTime":255.604,"body":"questions about what are they doing?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":255.664,"endTime":260.129,"body":"And once we arrive at the high-performance"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":255.664,"endTime":260.129,"body":"level, we're really asking our computer"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":260.129,"endTime":265.079,"body":"vision systems to give us some kind"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":260.129,"endTime":265.079,"body":"of actionable intelligence, actionable"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":265.079,"endTime":266.669,"body":"insight about what's going on."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":267.329,"endTime":270.569,"body":"The principle objective, of course,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":267.329,"endTime":270.569,"body":"using computer vision as opposed to,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":270.569,"endTime":274.739,"body":"as you alluded to in your question,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":270.569,"endTime":274.739,"body":"sensors, maybe GPS sensors, or"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":274.739,"endTime":278.039,"body":"accelerometers, or other kinds of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":274.739,"endTime":278.039,"body":"devices that you might attach to the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":278.039,"endTime":282.119,"body":"athlete, is exactly that, that you"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":278.039,"endTime":282.119,"body":"have to attach a device to the athlete."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":282.749,"endTime":288.099,"body":"So the inspiration behind investing"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":282.749,"endTime":288.099,"body":"in computer vision in sport has"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":288.099,"endTime":289.809,"body":"been the non-invasive nature."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":290.229,"endTime":293.469,"body":"And it comes with a whole range of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":290.229,"endTime":293.469,"body":"strengths and weaknesses, of course,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":293.499,"endTime":296.649,"body":"which we can dive into, but at its"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":293.499,"endTime":296.649,"body":"essence, what we're trying to do with"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":296.649,"endTime":300.819,"body":"computer vision in sport is to understand"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":296.649,"endTime":300.819,"body":"something about what athletes are doing."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":300.879,"endTime":303.459,"body":"Maybe it's in the training environment,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":300.879,"endTime":303.459,"body":"the daily training environment,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":303.459,"endTime":305.559,"body":"where we might be interested"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":303.459,"endTime":305.559,"body":"in monitoring their workload."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":306.279,"endTime":308.619,"body":"It could be in the competition"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":306.279,"endTime":308.619,"body":"environment, where we're interested in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":309.189,"endTime":313.719,"body":"monitoring the actions and behaviors"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":309.189,"endTime":313.719,"body":"of our opponents and understanding"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":314.259,"endTime":318.249,"body":"in a game analysis sense or a sports"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":314.259,"endTime":318.249,"body":"analytics sense, deriving information"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":318.249,"endTime":320.109,"body":"that we can use for competition insight."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":320.704,"endTime":323.404,"body":"But the principle difference here"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":320.704,"endTime":323.404,"body":"between computer vision and the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":323.404,"endTime":328.864,"body":"reason we use that and not sensors"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":323.404,"endTime":328.864,"body":"is that it is noninvasive, and so it"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":328.864,"endTime":332.734,"body":"means that we can derive information"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":328.864,"endTime":332.734,"body":"about our opponents in competition."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":333.184,"endTime":337.324,"body":"And we're not generally going to be"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":333.184,"endTime":337.324,"body":"able to do that with sensors, unless"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":337.324,"endTime":340.174,"body":"they're willing to share their GPS"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":337.324,"endTime":340.174,"body":"data with us or put sensors on for"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":340.174,"endTime":341.344,"body":"us and help us out in that way."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":341.344,"endTime":344.854,"body":"But generally speaking, we have an"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":341.344,"endTime":344.854,"body":"objective where we'd like to know more"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":344.854,"endTime":349.114,"body":"about our opponents than they know about"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":344.854,"endTime":349.114,"body":"themselves, and so that necessarily means"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":349.114,"endTime":353.014,"body":"doing things that are noninvasive, which"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":349.114,"endTime":353.014,"body":"is where the computer vision comes in."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":353.014,"endTime":358.989,"body":"But there is a cost and the cost is"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":353.014,"endTime":358.989,"body":"that computer vision is more difficult"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":358.989,"endTime":364.029,"body":"to do than simply putting on a sensor,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":358.989,"endTime":364.029,"body":"and so it comes with a whole raft of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":364.599,"endTime":368.439,"body":"additional computational processes we"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":364.599,"endTime":368.439,"body":"need to go through to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":368.439,"endTime":371.709,"body":"the data we're getting is clean, it's"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":368.439,"endTime":371.709,"body":"accurate, it's valid, and that we can"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":371.709,"endTime":375.879,"body":"work with it, and sensors are often a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":371.709,"endTime":375.879,"body":"lot easier to work with on that front."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":375.879,"endTime":378.699,"body":"So it comes with...there's a trade-off,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":375.879,"endTime":378.699,"body":"but essentially what we want to do with"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":378.699,"endTime":382.049,"body":"computer vision is learn something about"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":378.699,"endTime":382.049,"body":"our opposition without them knowing"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":382.049,"endTime":383.769,"body":"the least bit about what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":384.249,"endTime":387.219,"body":"You mentioned some of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":384.249,"endTime":387.219,"body":"the challenges and some of the things"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":387.219,"endTime":389.829,"body":"that have progressed over time and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":387.219,"endTime":389.829,"body":"I do want to dig into those, you're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":389.829,"endTime":392.819,"body":"right, but before we do, I'm interested"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":389.829,"endTime":392.819,"body":"in just setting the scene, just how"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":392.819,"endTime":395.129,"body":"pervasive this has become across sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":395.559,"endTime":398.979,"body":"When I speak to people that aren't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":395.559,"endTime":398.979,"body":"familiar with computer vision in sport, it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":399.729,"endTime":401.559,"body":"can seem a bit like a black box to them."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":401.629,"endTime":405.669,"body":"That's not to say that other forms of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":401.629,"endTime":405.669,"body":"sensors aren't either, but I'm just"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":405.669,"endTime":408.999,"body":"wondering, even though it's a lot more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":405.669,"endTime":408.999,"body":"feasible now maybe than it has been,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":409.029,"endTime":412.089,"body":"is it really that pervasive still"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":409.029,"endTime":412.089,"body":"across sports and in particularly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":412.089,"endTime":413.499,"body":"in some of these individual sports?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":413.499,"endTime":416.149,"body":"I think the most publicized one,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":413.499,"endTime":416.149,"body":"I would imagine, is sports like"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":416.169,"endTime":421.029,"body":"basketball because they probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":416.169,"endTime":421.029,"body":"provide a very user-friendly environment"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":421.059,"endTime":422.469,"body":"for computer vision, don't they?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":422.469,"endTime":426.439,"body":"It's an indoor controlled environment,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":422.469,"endTime":426.439,"body":"fairly even dimensions, low"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":426.439,"endTime":427.669,"body":"number of people on the court."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":427.699,"endTime":429.559,"body":"But just how pervasive"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":427.699,"endTime":429.559,"body":"is this across sports?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":429.559,"endTime":430.309,"body":"Do you have a take on that?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":430.959,"endTime":433.329,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":430.959,"endTime":433.329,"body":"becoming increasingly pervasive"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":433.329,"endTime":435.189,"body":"for two principle reasons."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":435.759,"endTime":442.869,"body":"Firstly, the complexity in computer"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":435.759,"endTime":442.869,"body":"vision algorithms has enabled us in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":442.869,"endTime":445.959,"body":"recent years, particularly with the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":442.869,"endTime":445.959,"body":"advent of artificial intelligence, to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":445.959,"endTime":447.729,"body":"solve much more difficult problems."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":447.939,"endTime":452.649,"body":"So it used to be that, for instance,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":447.939,"endTime":452.649,"body":"Hawk-Eye is a computer vision based"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":452.859,"endTime":456.309,"body":"system, and so for a system like"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":452.859,"endTime":456.309,"body":"Hawk-Eye you're dealing with a very small"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":456.309,"endTime":461.079,"body":"number of players, a very homogenous"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":456.309,"endTime":461.079,"body":"environment, nice blue court or a nice"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":461.079,"endTime":464.719,"body":"green court, and tracking the ball"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":461.079,"endTime":464.719,"body":"is relatively easy, the lines don't"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":464.719,"endTime":469.399,"body":"move, and so it's a very constrained"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":464.719,"endTime":469.399,"body":"environment to do computer vision and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":469.399,"endTime":471.489,"body":"so it's quite a tractable problem space."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":471.529,"endTime":476.869,"body":"It gets progressively harder when"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":471.529,"endTime":476.869,"body":"you start moving into team sports,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":476.869,"endTime":479.419,"body":"where you've got lots of players that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":476.869,"endTime":479.419,"body":"might cluster together and they become"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":479.419,"endTime":482.899,"body":"hidden by one another, and becomes"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":479.419,"endTime":482.899,"body":"even more difficult when you start"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":482.929,"endTime":487.074,"body":"trying to create mobile and ad hoc"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":482.929,"endTime":487.074,"body":"systems, maybe even handheld systems,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":487.104,"endTime":488.634,"body":"that can derive something meaningful."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":488.934,"endTime":494.784,"body":"But artificial intelligence has"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":488.934,"endTime":494.784,"body":"become a pipeline, like an algorithmic"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":494.784,"endTime":498.174,"body":"pipeline, or a technical solution"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":494.784,"endTime":498.174,"body":"to solving a whole range of things"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":498.174,"endTime":501.834,"body":"in computer vision that were just"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":498.174,"endTime":501.834,"body":"unthinkable even five or six years ago."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":501.884,"endTime":503.004,"body":"So that means a couple of things."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":503.004,"endTime":507.774,"body":"That firstly means that the sophistication"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":503.004,"endTime":507.774,"body":"in the systems is increasing and the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":507.774,"endTime":513.289,"body":"capacity to deploy these systems in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":507.774,"endTime":513.289,"body":"really complicated world spaces, in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":513.289,"endTime":518.989,"body":"the wild, is increasing, but we're also"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":513.289,"endTime":518.989,"body":"seeing changes in the technology that's"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":518.989,"endTime":520.729,"body":"available to deploy these as well."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":521.269,"endTime":524.629,"body":"If I can indulge you, our indulge"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":521.269,"endTime":524.629,"body":"myself, with a small story..."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":525.049,"endTime":527.869,"body":"we're going back, I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":525.049,"endTime":527.869,"body":"did allude to my age earlier, and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":528.019,"endTime":529.669,"body":"so going back nearly 10 years..."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":529.759,"endTime":530.659,"body":"I didn't mention it though!"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":532.549,"endTime":535.159,"body":"Going back nearly"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":532.549,"endTime":535.159,"body":"10 years now, one of our first"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":535.369,"endTime":539.119,"body":"significant deployments of a player"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":535.369,"endTime":539.119,"body":"tracking system, which we call Vision"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":539.379,"endTime":543.189,"body":"Kit, was deployed in Dublin at an"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":539.379,"endTime":543.189,"body":"international hockey competition."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":543.879,"endTime":547.689,"body":"And we did that in partnership with"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":543.879,"endTime":547.689,"body":"Disney Research, thankfully because it"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":547.689,"endTime":552.639,"body":"was an expensive proposition, and the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":547.689,"endTime":552.639,"body":"system consisted of a shipping container"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":552.909,"endTime":558.369,"body":"that was dropped in pitch side, behind"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":552.909,"endTime":558.369,"body":"the grandstand, with roughly a hundred"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":558.369,"endTime":562.149,"body":"thousand dollars worth of computing"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":558.369,"endTime":562.149,"body":"equipment on board, camera's mounted up"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":562.179,"endTime":565.449,"body":"in different places around the stadium"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":562.179,"endTime":565.449,"body":"and on the light posts, and it was a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":565.719,"endTime":568.089,"body":"substantial investment in resources."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":568.929,"endTime":572.319,"body":"And that was the scale of the computing"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":568.929,"endTime":572.319,"body":"resources that we needed at the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":572.319,"endTime":575.259,"body":"time, in order to track the players"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":572.319,"endTime":575.259,"body":"as they ran around the hockey pitch."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":575.529,"endTime":577.089,"body":"And that wasn't even an automated system."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":577.089,"endTime":579.819,"body":"That was a semi-automated system"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":577.089,"endTime":579.819,"body":"that required a lot of human"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":579.819,"endTime":581.559,"body":"input at the end of the pipeline."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":582.309,"endTime":587.529,"body":"But we jump forward a few years and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":582.309,"endTime":587.529,"body":"we have roughly the same capability"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":587.589,"endTime":589.749,"body":"now embedded on iOS devices."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":589.749,"endTime":593.919,"body":"So we can carry around an iPad"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":589.749,"endTime":593.919,"body":"Pro and do many of the same things"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":594.309,"endTime":595.809,"body":"with increasing sophistication."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":596.319,"endTime":600.249,"body":"These iPad Pros now have these neural"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":596.319,"endTime":600.249,"body":"engines on board, which allow a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":600.249,"endTime":603.749,"body":"significant amount of computer vision"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":600.249,"endTime":603.749,"body":"and artificial intelligence to happen"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":603.749,"endTime":605.669,"body":"in real time on a handheld device."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":606.089,"endTime":608.039,"body":"And that transition's"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":606.089,"endTime":608.039,"body":"happened in under 10 years."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":608.489,"endTime":611.459,"body":"So I think what we're going to see"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":608.489,"endTime":611.459,"body":"is this evolution of pervasiveness"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":611.459,"endTime":615.929,"body":"across sport really grow as the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":611.459,"endTime":615.929,"body":"computational resources available"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":615.929,"endTime":618.629,"body":"to us on mobile devices increases."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":619.007,"endTime":622.287,"body":"You may be familiar with, or many of your"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":619.007,"endTime":622.287,"body":"listeners may be familiar with, HomeCourt,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":622.307,"endTime":626.587,"body":"which is an iOS app, runs entirely on an"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":622.307,"endTime":626.587,"body":"iPhone and you can take it to your local"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":626.587,"endTime":630.037,"body":"basketball court with your daughter or"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":626.587,"endTime":630.037,"body":"your son and film their training session"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":630.097,"endTime":635.147,"body":"or film their game and you can map out on"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":630.097,"endTime":635.147,"body":"a court space where their shots have been"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":635.167,"endTime":639.517,"body":"taken from and the shooting percentage"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":635.167,"endTime":639.517,"body":"and a whole range of really cool features."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":639.847,"endTime":643.057,"body":"And that lives now on an iOS device"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":639.847,"endTime":643.057,"body":"that you carry around in your pocket."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":643.177,"endTime":646.687,"body":"And that's only 10 years after a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":643.177,"endTime":646.687,"body":"similar kind of operation would"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":646.687,"endTime":650.677,"body":"have been tens if not a hundred"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":646.687,"endTime":650.677,"body":"thousand dollars worth of computing"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":650.677,"endTime":653.607,"body":"equipment and a shipping container"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":650.677,"endTime":653.607,"body":"and a whole lot of infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":653.607,"endTime":656.632,"body":"So, your question is about the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":653.607,"endTime":656.632,"body":"pervasiveness, and I think as the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":656.632,"endTime":660.712,"body":"technology evolves and the sophistication"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":656.632,"endTime":660.712,"body":"of the algorithms evolve, it's going"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":660.712,"endTime":665.602,"body":"to be increasingly the domain of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":660.712,"endTime":665.602,"body":"amateur and participation sport."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":665.632,"endTime":670.372,"body":"Whereas previously Hawk-Eye, or the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":665.632,"endTime":670.372,"body":"basketball examples that you talked"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":670.372,"endTime":673.432,"body":"about, were really the domain of the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":670.372,"endTime":673.432,"body":"big professional sports that could"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":673.432,"endTime":674.602,"body":"afford that kind of infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":675.102,"endTime":678.652,"body":"I've always kind of had"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":675.102,"endTime":678.652,"body":"in my head that GPS and other athlete"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":678.652,"endTime":682.902,"body":"tracking technologies and computer"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":678.652,"endTime":682.902,"body":"vision converging on the same space"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":682.902,"endTime":686.772,"body":"and being used for the same purpose,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":682.902,"endTime":686.772,"body":"but it occurred to me just listening"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":686.772,"endTime":689.772,"body":"to you then that in many ways they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":686.772,"endTime":689.772,"body":"actually separating out, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":689.772,"endTime":694.202,"body":"I mean, potentially there's things that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":689.772,"endTime":694.202,"body":"computer vision can now be used for which,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":694.662,"endTime":697.992,"body":"you know, we always knew maybe it could"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":694.662,"endTime":697.992,"body":"be eventually, that is becoming a reality."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":698.042,"endTime":700.882,"body":"And even in the way that they're being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":698.042,"endTime":700.882,"body":"marketed they're separating out, for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":700.882,"endTime":704.422,"body":"example, GPS systems now are being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":700.882,"endTime":704.422,"body":"marketed at cheaper rates than ever"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":704.422,"endTime":708.772,"body":"before and there's still 10 Hertz tracking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":704.422,"endTime":708.772,"body":"systems, but extremely accessible."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":708.922,"endTime":712.432,"body":"But in a sense, probably starting to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":708.922,"endTime":712.432,"body":"be used for different things to what a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":712.432,"endTime":714.652,"body":"computer vision system would be used for."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":714.652,"endTime":717.142,"body":"Even though, yes, they're still going"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":714.652,"endTime":717.142,"body":"to be used for tracking position of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":717.142,"endTime":720.852,"body":"an athlete, or maybe technique, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":717.142,"endTime":720.852,"body":"certainly velocities, these types of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":720.852,"endTime":724.212,"body":"characteristics, but maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":720.852,"endTime":724.212,"body":"separating out a little bit and that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":724.212,"endTime":727.592,"body":"really ties into something I wanted"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":724.212,"endTime":727.592,"body":"to talk to you about, which is not so"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":727.592,"endTime":732.342,"body":"much just what's been constraining the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":727.592,"endTime":732.342,"body":"development of computer vision, which"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":732.342,"endTime":735.762,"body":"doesn't sound like it's been too much"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":732.342,"endTime":735.762,"body":"given the growth we've seen in 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":736.422,"endTime":739.602,"body":"but what's the future look like in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":736.422,"endTime":739.602,"body":"terms of the challenges to be overcome?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":739.652,"endTime":743.162,"body":"Feel free to rip apart my metaphorical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":739.652,"endTime":743.162,"body":"buckets here, but like, I guess I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":743.162,"endTime":747.032,"body":"always view this problem in a couple of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":743.162,"endTime":747.032,"body":"different buckets, which is in terms of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":747.632,"endTime":751.742,"body":"the hardware, in terms of what's available"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":747.632,"endTime":751.742,"body":"to us, and I guess I'll separate the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":751.742,"endTime":756.022,"body":"computer from the camera so to speak"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":751.742,"endTime":756.022,"body":"here for the example that we're about to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":756.022,"endTime":758.122,"body":"use, and then the algorithms themselves."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":758.122,"endTime":760.852,"body":"And to me, I might be wrong here"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":758.122,"endTime":760.852,"body":"and I'm interested in your take, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":761.302,"endTime":764.572,"body":"it doesn't seem like the algorithms"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":761.302,"endTime":764.572,"body":"are the limiting factor right now."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":764.752,"endTime":766.402,"body":"It'll literally be the computation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":766.402,"endTime":767.052,"body":"Is that correct?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":767.052,"endTime":770.042,"body":"Are the cameras moving quicker and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":767.052,"endTime":770.042,"body":"the algorithms are up to speed?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":770.062,"endTime":773.902,"body":"Is it more the computation that's going to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":770.062,"endTime":773.902,"body":"need to continue to keep up, so to speak?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":774.312,"endTime":775.902,"body":"Yeah, that's a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":774.312,"endTime":775.902,"body":"really interesting question."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":775.962,"endTime":780.852,"body":"I mean, ironically, we actually use"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":775.962,"endTime":780.852,"body":"sensors in many cases as part of the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":780.852,"endTime":784.257,"body":"training environment for computer vision."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":784.947,"endTime":789.447,"body":"If we start from the principle assumption"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":784.947,"endTime":789.447,"body":"that a sensor is as close as we can get"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":789.447,"endTime":794.547,"body":"to a gold standard in estimating some"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":789.447,"endTime":794.547,"body":"kind of physiological parameter, and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":794.547,"endTime":798.337,"body":"maybe it's ground reaction forces, or"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":794.547,"endTime":798.337,"body":"maybe it's running speed, although I'm"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":798.337,"endTime":802.287,"body":"always hesitant to say that in relation"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":798.337,"endTime":802.287,"body":"to GPS specifically, but there are"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":802.287,"endTime":803.967,"body":"other more accurate methods, of course."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":804.057,"endTime":810.687,"body":"We often use sensors as the principal"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":804.057,"endTime":810.687,"body":"source of data that we then use"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":810.797,"endTime":816.347,"body":"algorithmically to train an AI to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":810.797,"endTime":816.347,"body":"predict what would the sensor output"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":816.347,"endTime":819.647,"body":"be, if an athlete was wearing a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":816.347,"endTime":819.647,"body":"sensor, in an environment where"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":819.647,"endTime":820.967,"body":"the athlete's not wearing a sensor."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":821.557,"endTime":824.997,"body":"So that relates to , of course we"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":821.557,"endTime":824.997,"body":"talked before about opposition analysis."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":824.997,"endTime":827.927,"body":"So if we want to know something about"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":824.997,"endTime":827.927,"body":"what the opposition is doing and we"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":827.927,"endTime":831.127,"body":"don't have sensors on them, then we want"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":827.927,"endTime":831.127,"body":"to predict what their sensors would be"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":831.147,"endTime":832.857,"body":"telling us if they were wearing them."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":833.367,"endTime":836.127,"body":"And there are other cases,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":833.367,"endTime":836.127,"body":"of course, where sensors are"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":836.127,"endTime":837.747,"body":"just not even safe to wear."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":837.777,"endTime":841.347,"body":"We do a lot of work with diving, for"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":837.777,"endTime":841.347,"body":"instance, and we're interested in some"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":841.347,"endTime":843.687,"body":"of the forces that act on the body."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":844.197,"endTime":847.737,"body":"Divers can train for three hours"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":844.197,"endTime":847.737,"body":"in a high-performance session and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":847.737,"endTime":850.767,"body":"maybe do as many as 200 dives,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":847.737,"endTime":850.767,"body":"and if they're diving from the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":850.767,"endTime":854.067,"body":"10-meter platform, they're hitting"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":850.767,"endTime":854.067,"body":"the water at 80 kilometers an hour."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":854.067,"endTime":857.787,"body":"So these physical forces that run"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":854.067,"endTime":857.787,"body":"through the body are immense and you"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":857.787,"endTime":861.867,"body":"can't put sensors on a diver in that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":857.787,"endTime":861.867,"body":"scenario, because it's just too dangerous"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":861.867,"endTime":864.937,"body":"when you hit the water at that speed"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":861.867,"endTime":864.937,"body":"to have things strapped to bodies."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":864.937,"endTime":868.707,"body":"So in those kinds of instances, we're"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":864.937,"endTime":868.707,"body":"trying to predict what would a sensor"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":868.707,"endTime":870.267,"body":"tell us if we were able to wear one?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":870.507,"endTime":876.097,"body":"And so we often then use sensor based"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":870.507,"endTime":876.097,"body":"data to train AI models to predict that."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":876.127,"endTime":880.237,"body":"Jacqueline Alderson is doing some"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":876.127,"endTime":880.237,"body":"interesting work at UWA, again using"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":880.597,"endTime":884.377,"body":"AI and computer vision to try to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":880.597,"endTime":884.377,"body":"predict ground reaction forces, where"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":884.377,"endTime":890.407,"body":"they have large scale resources in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":884.377,"endTime":890.407,"body":"terms of Vicon and force plate data."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":890.937,"endTime":894.937,"body":"So a really highly sensored environment,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":890.937,"endTime":894.937,"body":"a laboratory environment, and then trying"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":894.937,"endTime":897.967,"body":"to transport that out into the real"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":894.937,"endTime":897.967,"body":"world so that you could make reliable"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":898.117,"endTime":902.417,"body":"predictions about what would a force"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":898.117,"endTime":902.417,"body":"plate be telling you about the ground"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":902.417,"endTime":906.587,"body":"reaction forces of an athlete doing a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":902.417,"endTime":906.587,"body":"particular action in an environment where"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":906.587,"endTime":909.317,"body":"you don't have that as a sensor resource."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":909.74,"endTime":913.25,"body":"And the other step from that is"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":909.74,"endTime":913.25,"body":"what we call sensor fusion, where we"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":913.25,"endTime":914.84,"body":"actually take the best of both worlds."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":915.08,"endTime":919.495,"body":"We take the really interesting things"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":915.08,"endTime":919.495,"body":"about sensors and information we get from"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":919.495,"endTime":922.935,"body":"that, but then we fill in the gaps with"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":919.495,"endTime":922.935,"body":"the things that sensors can't give us."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":923.295,"endTime":926.445,"body":"Sensors are not very good at giving us"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":923.295,"endTime":926.445,"body":"information about pose, for instance."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":926.985,"endTime":931.425,"body":"If you're wearing a GPS unit and we're"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":926.985,"endTime":931.425,"body":"interested in what you're doing with the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":931.425,"endTime":936.705,"body":"football, the GPS unit gives us nothing"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":931.425,"endTime":936.705,"body":"in terms of understanding anything other"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":936.705,"endTime":939.945,"body":"than really how fast are you running,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":936.705,"endTime":939.945,"body":"how hard did you accelerate, and where"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":939.945,"endTime":941.275,"body":"are you when you receive the ball?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":941.985,"endTime":946.355,"body":"And so computer vision can add"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":941.985,"endTime":946.355,"body":"to that information network."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":946.775,"endTime":949.835,"body":"And so by fusing both sources of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":946.775,"endTime":949.835,"body":"information together, you can go"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":949.835,"endTime":953.915,"body":"a long way towards building a much"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":949.835,"endTime":953.915,"body":"richer and more granular picture and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":953.915,"endTime":957.575,"body":"a more representative picture of what"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":953.915,"endTime":957.575,"body":"people are actually doing in sport."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":957.755,"endTime":961.205,"body":"And so far from it being, as you were"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":957.755,"endTime":961.205,"body":"alluding to, far from it being one"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":961.205,"endTime":964.715,"body":"versus the other, you can often kind"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":961.205,"endTime":964.715,"body":"of bring them in together in many ways"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":964.715,"endTime":967.045,"body":"to arrive at a better overall solution."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":967.74,"endTime":971.43,"body":"You mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":967.74,"endTime":971.43,"body":"example there of using the sensor and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":971.44,"endTime":975.22,"body":"maybe not as a gold standard, but at"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":971.44,"endTime":975.22,"body":"least as a criterion measure to compare"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":975.22,"endTime":978.33,"body":"against division output, and when you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":975.22,"endTime":978.33,"body":"talk about opposition analysis, for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":978.33,"endTime":982.29,"body":"example, in not only team sports, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":978.33,"endTime":982.29,"body":"individual sports, say some of the combat"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":982.29,"endTime":985.71,"body":"sports, for example, it does invoke"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":982.29,"endTime":985.71,"body":"images of being able to get a very,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":985.71,"endTime":990.185,"body":"very good insight about the behaviors,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":985.71,"endTime":990.185,"body":"not only the preferences, but also the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":990.185,"endTime":994.565,"body":"movement patterns of your individual"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":990.185,"endTime":994.565,"body":"in a way that we've never seen before."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":994.985,"endTime":998.945,"body":"Of course the really beneficial"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":994.985,"endTime":998.945,"body":"part there, but also the scary part"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":999.095,"endTime":1003.175,"body":"for the opposition, is your ability"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":999.095,"endTime":1003.175,"body":"potentially to get this information"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1003.175,"endTime":1006.445,"body":"without asking their consent, in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1003.175,"endTime":1006.445,"body":"this case just through filming them."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1006.985,"endTime":1010.915,"body":"And that obviously opens up some ethical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1006.985,"endTime":1010.915,"body":"questions, which I do want to ask you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1010.915,"endTime":1015.385,"body":"about, but before we get to that, how much"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1010.915,"endTime":1015.385,"body":"further can this go in the short term?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1015.535,"endTime":1018.085,"body":"When I look at this, there's an"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1015.535,"endTime":1018.085,"body":"operational piece to it, but there's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1018.085,"endTime":1021.745,"body":"also an applications piece, and you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1018.085,"endTime":1021.745,"body":"just talked about a fantastic one"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1022.285,"endTime":1023.455,"body":"from Jacqueline Alderson's group."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1023.485,"endTime":1027.585,"body":"I had the good fortune of marking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1023.485,"endTime":1027.585,"body":"one of the PhD theses from that work,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1027.585,"endTime":1029.195,"body":"which was a really interesting read."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1029.685,"endTime":1034.852,"body":"But my mind goes to things like automated"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1029.685,"endTime":1034.852,"body":"refereeing, maybe using computer vision"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1034.852,"endTime":1039.292,"body":"eventually to detect gaze behaviours,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1034.852,"endTime":1039.292,"body":"which I'd imagine right now is probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1039.772,"endTime":1043.202,"body":"beyond what it's capable of but I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1039.772,"endTime":1043.202,"body":"interested in your thoughts on that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1043.802,"endTime":1047.372,"body":"But then from an operational"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1043.802,"endTime":1047.372,"body":"standpoint, I also think of things"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1047.372,"endTime":1052.622,"body":"like completely instrumented training"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1047.372,"endTime":1052.622,"body":"bases for organisations, where the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1052.622,"endTime":1057.122,"body":"player can literally be tracked inside"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1052.622,"endTime":1057.122,"body":"and outside an entire facility, 24"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1057.122,"endTime":1060.032,"body":"hours a day, or the entire period"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1057.122,"endTime":1060.032,"body":"they're at that training base."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1060.422,"endTime":1063.212,"body":"Which again, sounds like a very"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1060.422,"endTime":1063.212,"body":"scary proposition, but there's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1063.212,"endTime":1064.322,"body":"massive advantages of that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1064.892,"endTime":1068.012,"body":"Now they might seem far-fetched, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1064.892,"endTime":1068.012,"body":"I get the feeling you might suggest"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1068.012,"endTime":1069.172,"body":"that they're not that far-fetched."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1069.382,"endTime":1070.922,"body":"Are there's some things that you think of?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1070.922,"endTime":1072.962,"body":"I know you spend a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1070.922,"endTime":1072.962,"body":"in this space, most of your time."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1073.312,"endTime":1074.542,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1073.312,"endTime":1074.542,"body":"there's still a lot to do."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1074.632,"endTime":1078.682,"body":"I mentioned the advent of AI; it might be"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1074.632,"endTime":1078.682,"body":"worth just spending a couple of minutes"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1078.682,"endTime":1082.862,"body":"for your listeners to kind of have a clear"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1078.682,"endTime":1082.862,"body":"sense of what the real meaning of that is."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1083.042,"endTime":1085.412,"body":"Historically, when we build"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1083.042,"endTime":1085.412,"body":"computer vision systems, we"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1085.412,"endTime":1087.212,"body":"do it in a programmatic way."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1087.212,"endTime":1090.872,"body":"So we'd write a program line by line"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1087.212,"endTime":1090.872,"body":"that says, okay, if we want to understand"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1090.872,"endTime":1094.142,"body":"and image that has a tennis player"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1090.872,"endTime":1094.142,"body":"in it, and we want to find the tennis"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1094.142,"endTime":1098.012,"body":"ball, or we want to find the athlete,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1094.142,"endTime":1098.012,"body":"then we have to write, line by line,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1098.762,"endTime":1103.472,"body":"code that tells us maybe breaks apart"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1098.762,"endTime":1103.472,"body":"the colors to separate the athlete"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1103.472,"endTime":1104.852,"body":"from the foreground and the background."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1104.852,"endTime":1108.242,"body":"And then we have to maybe build"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1104.852,"endTime":1108.242,"body":"another part to the program which"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1108.242,"endTime":1111.572,"body":"works out what are the straight lines"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1108.242,"endTime":1111.572,"body":"which might approximate part of the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1111.572,"endTime":1114.752,"body":"tennis racket, or what are the circles"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1111.572,"endTime":1114.752,"body":"which might be used to find the ball."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1115.082,"endTime":1119.072,"body":"So line by line and piece by piece,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1115.082,"endTime":1119.072,"body":"the historical way of doing computer"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1119.072,"endTime":1123.722,"body":"vision has been to build these"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1119.072,"endTime":1123.722,"body":"very handcrafted computer programs"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1123.722,"endTime":1124.892,"body":"to try to solve these problems."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1125.322,"endTime":1130.422,"body":"You can, kind of, arrive at fairly good"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1125.322,"endTime":1130.422,"body":"outcomes doing it that way, but artificial"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1130.422,"endTime":1135.522,"body":"intelligence takes a different approach"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1130.422,"endTime":1135.522,"body":"where the idea is that the algorithm"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1136.052,"endTime":1140.072,"body":"is a learned approximation between what"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1136.052,"endTime":1140.072,"body":"it is that you're putting in, which"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1140.072,"endTime":1143.252,"body":"might be an image, and what it is that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1140.072,"endTime":1143.252,"body":"you want to get out, which might be"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1143.252,"endTime":1146.342,"body":"the location of the tennis player and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1143.252,"endTime":1146.342,"body":"the orientation of the tennis racket."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1147.032,"endTime":1150.342,"body":"And if you have that information, so"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1147.032,"endTime":1150.342,"body":"if you have the vision and you have"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1150.972,"endTime":1155.742,"body":"knowledge of what the answer should be,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1150.972,"endTime":1155.742,"body":"artificial intelligence is the algorithmic"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1155.742,"endTime":1161.232,"body":"process of a computer over thousands"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1155.742,"endTime":1161.232,"body":"and thousands, in often cases millions,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1161.232,"endTime":1167.502,"body":"of trials working out some kind of set"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1161.232,"endTime":1167.502,"body":"of a neural network, a set of numerical"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1167.502,"endTime":1170.802,"body":"weights if you like, that when you"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1167.502,"endTime":1170.802,"body":"multiply all those numbers together,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1170.852,"endTime":1172.062,"body":"you get the answer that you want."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1172.272,"endTime":1175.722,"body":"And when you talk about black box and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1172.272,"endTime":1175.722,"body":"that's exactly what it is, humans can't"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1175.722,"endTime":1178.742,"body":"really interpret what all these numbers"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1175.722,"endTime":1178.742,"body":"mean because there can be millions of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1178.742,"endTime":1183.732,"body":"numbers in these numerical weights that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1178.742,"endTime":1183.732,"body":"when they're multiplied together in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1183.732,"endTime":1188.377,"body":"certain ways give you a particular kind"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1183.732,"endTime":1188.377,"body":"of response that you're searching for."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1188.827,"endTime":1193.237,"body":"I'm conscious that I don't want to muddy"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1188.827,"endTime":1193.237,"body":"the waters here with too much AI talk,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1193.237,"endTime":1198.187,"body":"but the end result of this process is"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1193.237,"endTime":1198.187,"body":"that we end up with systems that are much"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1198.187,"endTime":1204.342,"body":"more robust and much more reliable, if"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1198.187,"endTime":1204.342,"body":"you have a lot of training data to go on."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1204.342,"endTime":1208.742,"body":"So in other words, if you have hundreds"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1204.342,"endTime":1208.742,"body":"and hundreds of examples of a tennis"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1208.742,"endTime":1213.932,"body":"player holding a racket, then the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1208.742,"endTime":1213.932,"body":"AI learning process is able to build"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1213.932,"endTime":1218.042,"body":"its own model construct to predict"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1213.932,"endTime":1218.042,"body":"what a tennis player would look"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1218.042,"endTime":1221.522,"body":"like and what they'd be doing with a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1218.042,"endTime":1221.522,"body":"tennis racket in some new examples."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1221.882,"endTime":1223.082,"body":"Now that's important for two reasons."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1223.112,"endTime":1227.192,"body":"One of them is that it completely changes"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1223.112,"endTime":1227.192,"body":"the game for computer vision, and it"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1227.192,"endTime":1230.282,"body":"means a whole bunch of things that were"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1227.192,"endTime":1230.282,"body":"incredibly hard five or six years ago,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1230.672,"endTime":1235.442,"body":"before this AI revolution really took"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1230.672,"endTime":1235.442,"body":"hold, are much easy now, and there really"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1235.442,"endTime":1239.402,"body":"aren't too many computer-vision-based"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1235.442,"endTime":1239.402,"body":"problems, whether it relates to position"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1239.402,"endTime":1244.362,"body":"tracking or pose detection or action"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1239.402,"endTime":1244.362,"body":"recognition or face detection, number"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1244.362,"endTime":1245.592,"body":"recognition, these kind of things."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1246.042,"endTime":1249.492,"body":"They're all really quite easily"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1246.042,"endTime":1249.492,"body":"solvable problems now because these"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1249.552,"endTime":1253.572,"body":"AIs are able to solve these problems"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1249.552,"endTime":1253.572,"body":"with the right training data."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1254.172,"endTime":1255.592,"body":"But that's the second"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1254.172,"endTime":1255.592,"body":"part of the equation."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1255.592,"endTime":1259.492,"body":"The training data is a really critical"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1255.592,"endTime":1259.492,"body":"part and it's the barrier at the moment"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1259.852,"endTime":1261.982,"body":"to anything we might do in the future."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1262.492,"endTime":1268.012,"body":"If we have lots of training examples"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1262.492,"endTime":1268.012,"body":"that we can teach an AI to solve, so"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1268.012,"endTime":1270.982,"body":"that then it's able to go off into"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1268.012,"endTime":1270.982,"body":"the future and deal with new examples"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1271.042,"endTime":1275.092,"body":"robustly, we need to have a lot of those"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1271.042,"endTime":1275.092,"body":"initial examples as training cases."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1275.842,"endTime":1279.532,"body":"That's a barrier then, for instance, if"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1275.842,"endTime":1279.532,"body":"you take the model that you've trained"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1279.532,"endTime":1283.422,"body":"to find tennis players and you take"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1279.532,"endTime":1283.422,"body":"them off the hard court and you put"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1283.422,"endTime":1287.962,"body":"them on grass, suddenly the environment"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1283.422,"endTime":1287.962,"body":"changes and the model needs to change."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1287.962,"endTime":1291.412,"body":"So you need to have a lot of data with"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1287.962,"endTime":1291.412,"body":"a whole range of different venues and a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1291.412,"endTime":1295.732,"body":"whole range of different camera angles"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1291.412,"endTime":1295.732,"body":"and perspectives and color balances and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1295.732,"endTime":1299.992,"body":"all of these kinds of things that then"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1295.732,"endTime":1299.992,"body":"the AI is able to take into account so it"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1299.992,"endTime":1305.932,"body":"learns exactly what you want it to predict"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1299.992,"endTime":1305.932,"body":"and to find the actions or understand the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1305.932,"endTime":1307.402,"body":"images in the way that you want it to."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1307.762,"endTime":1311.392,"body":"Now, that's a long-winded answer and I"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1307.762,"endTime":1311.392,"body":"apologise for that, but I'm coming back to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1311.392,"endTime":1315.442,"body":"the original point, which is where are the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1311.392,"endTime":1315.442,"body":"barriers and what still needs to be done."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1315.892,"endTime":1319.762,"body":"And one of the really active areas of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1315.892,"endTime":1319.762,"body":"research at the moment in AI and computer"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1319.762,"endTime":1325.012,"body":"vision is how can we get models to learn"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1319.762,"endTime":1325.012,"body":"how to predict what it is that we want"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1325.012,"endTime":1327.502,"body":"them to predict with many fewer cases."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1328.232,"endTime":1332.282,"body":"If the barrier to building a new system"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1328.232,"endTime":1332.282,"body":"tomorrow that tracks people kicking"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1332.282,"endTime":1336.302,"body":"footballs is that you need hundreds or"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1332.282,"endTime":1336.302,"body":"thousands of examples of people keeping"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1336.302,"endTime":1340.742,"body":"footballs, and you need either the sensor"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1336.302,"endTime":1340.742,"body":"data, or you need manually annotated"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1340.742,"endTime":1344.672,"body":"examples of what it is that you want,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1340.742,"endTime":1344.672,"body":"then it could be quite some time before"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1344.672,"endTime":1346.082,"body":"you actually have a working model."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1346.802,"endTime":1350.102,"body":"And AI is inspired partly by"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1346.802,"endTime":1350.102,"body":"the way the human brain works,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1350.102,"endTime":1351.402,"body":"but humans are very good."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1351.402,"endTime":1355.402,"body":"We only have to see somebody kick a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1351.402,"endTime":1355.402,"body":"football once to know that that's the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1355.642,"endTime":1358.972,"body":"act of kicking the football, whereas"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1355.642,"endTime":1358.972,"body":"a computer needs to seed hundreds"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1358.972,"endTime":1360.592,"body":"and maybe even thousands of times."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1361.162,"endTime":1365.002,"body":"So the really active part of research at"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1361.162,"endTime":1365.002,"body":"the moment is how can we get computers"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1365.002,"endTime":1370.672,"body":"to learn and to build these AIs without"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1365.002,"endTime":1370.672,"body":"having to first collect hundreds or"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1370.672,"endTime":1372.982,"body":"thousands of examples to train it on."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1373.852,"endTime":1379.612,"body":"That then opens up a whole new cornucopia"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1373.852,"endTime":1379.612,"body":"of opportunities in sports science, where"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1379.612,"endTime":1383.512,"body":"a computer only has to see something"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1379.612,"endTime":1383.512,"body":"once in order to recognise what it is."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1384.022,"endTime":1389.062,"body":"So imagine a more sophisticated scenario"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1384.022,"endTime":1389.062,"body":"where maybe we're filming a football match"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1389.782,"endTime":1392.212,"body":"and we see a particular kind of play."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1392.752,"endTime":1395.932,"body":"If we had thousands of examples of that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1392.752,"endTime":1395.932,"body":"kind of play, we could teach an AI to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1395.932,"endTime":1399.172,"body":"recognise that and so any time it sees"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1395.932,"endTime":1399.172,"body":"it in the future, it could automatically"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1399.502,"endTime":1403.132,"body":"tag that, recognise it, log it away,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1399.502,"endTime":1403.132,"body":"and create a video highlights package"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1403.132,"endTime":1406.012,"body":"of all of those kinds of examples."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1406.012,"endTime":1409.522,"body":"And maybe it's a tactical consideration,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1406.012,"endTime":1409.522,"body":"maybe it's a centre clearance with"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1409.522,"endTime":1411.382,"body":"certain kinds of features around it."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1411.562,"endTime":1414.862,"body":"A human can see that once, a skilled"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1411.562,"endTime":1414.862,"body":"human can see that once, and know it"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1414.862,"endTime":1418.432,"body":"again, whereas a computer at the moment"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1414.862,"endTime":1418.432,"body":"can't, and the idea that we're working"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1418.432,"endTime":1422.482,"body":"towards is that, or that the community"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1418.432,"endTime":1422.482,"body":"is working towards is that, a computer"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1422.482,"endTime":1427.042,"body":"should be able to see an example of a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1422.482,"endTime":1427.042,"body":"centre clearance, with particular kind"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1427.042,"endTime":1431.202,"body":"of tactical constraints around it,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1427.042,"endTime":1431.202,"body":"only once, and then be able to find it."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1431.472,"endTime":1435.292,"body":"And I think that's where the next"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1431.472,"endTime":1435.292,"body":"big area of work is happening that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1435.292,"endTime":1438.982,"body":"will be important for sport at"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1435.292,"endTime":1438.982,"body":"a higher level than just action"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1438.982,"endTime":1440.392,"body":"recognition or player tracking."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1440.392,"endTime":1441.102,"body":"Those things are solved."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1441.502,"endTime":1443.982,"body":"What we want to do now is go to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1441.502,"endTime":1443.982,"body":"that next level further, where we're"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1443.982,"endTime":1449.352,"body":"looking at the more high-level tactical"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1443.982,"endTime":1449.352,"body":"constraints or tactical considerations."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1449.862,"endTime":1452.592,"body":"And it's a much harder proposition"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1449.862,"endTime":1452.592,"body":"for a computer because they need"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1452.592,"endTime":1456.582,"body":"lots and lots and lots of examples"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1452.592,"endTime":1456.582,"body":"in order to learn what it looks like."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1456.884,"endTime":1458.775,"body":"Like a lot of things"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1456.884,"endTime":1458.775,"body":"we talk about on this show, it's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1458.775,"endTime":1461.715,"body":"really kind of multidisciplinary,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1458.775,"endTime":1461.715,"body":"well interdisciplinary,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1461.715,"endTime":1462.555,"body":"kind of problem isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1462.555,"endTime":1466.785,"body":"Listening to you talk about the thousands"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1462.555,"endTime":1466.785,"body":"or millions of examples required and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1466.875,"endTime":1470.985,"body":"ensuring you get adequate heterogeneity"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1466.875,"endTime":1470.985,"body":"in the context and also the types of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1470.985,"endTime":1475.705,"body":"samples, that's a very human-dependent"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1470.985,"endTime":1475.705,"body":"problem right now, I'd imagine."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1475.725,"endTime":1478.545,"body":"You know, you need to get someone"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1475.725,"endTime":1478.545,"body":"who, if you're looking at detecting"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1478.545,"endTime":1482.115,"body":"the as you mentioned around a tennis"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1478.545,"endTime":1482.115,"body":"forehand, you'd want to know someone"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1482.115,"endTime":1485.555,"body":"who knows every single court surface"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1482.115,"endTime":1485.555,"body":"that someone could ever play tennis"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1485.555,"endTime":1488.195,"body":"on and all the varying techniques and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1485.555,"endTime":1488.195,"body":"things like that to make sure they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1488.195,"endTime":1490.805,"body":"represented, and that is an arduous task."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1490.895,"endTime":1493.625,"body":"And then of course, coming back to your"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1490.895,"endTime":1493.625,"body":"second part of your example, when you're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1493.625,"endTime":1498.04,"body":"talking about the ability for humans"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1493.625,"endTime":1498.04,"body":"to still at least pattern recognise"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1498.5,"endTime":1500.15,"body":"in ways that computers can't yet."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1503.66,"body":"I'm not an expert in that area,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1503.66,"body":"but is it as simple as we're better"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1503.66,"endTime":1505.52,"body":"at extracting features from that?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1505.52,"endTime":1508.36,"body":"Is that part of the problem, that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1505.52,"endTime":1508.36,"body":"computers need to get better at, or at"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1508.36,"endTime":1513.25,"body":"least creating higher level, higher order,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1508.36,"endTime":1513.25,"body":"constructs or models from those features?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1513.25,"endTime":1516.4,"body":"I mean, I think your tactical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1513.25,"endTime":1516.4,"body":"example is a great one there and also"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1516.4,"endTime":1520.09,"body":"probably an element of humans picking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1516.4,"endTime":1520.09,"body":"up things subconsciously as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1520.15,"endTime":1523.35,"body":"They're not sure that they're pattern"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1520.15,"endTime":1523.35,"body":"recognising even when they are."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1523.42,"endTime":1526.35,"body":"It seems like both of those"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1523.42,"endTime":1526.35,"body":"things still rely on a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1526.35,"endTime":1527.4,"body":"human involvement, don't they?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1527.73,"endTime":1528.2,"body":"Yeah they do."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1528.2,"endTime":1530.94,"body":"It's interesting because I think, as"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1528.2,"endTime":1530.94,"body":"you alluded to, humans are very good at"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1530.94,"endTime":1535.23,"body":"recognising patterns and if you were a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1530.94,"endTime":1535.23,"body":"novice at football and you'd never seen a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1535.23,"endTime":1540.657,"body":"football game, you get flown in from the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1535.23,"endTime":1540.657,"body":"US and you got no idea what this insane"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1540.657,"endTime":1544.537,"body":"sport is about, then the odds of you being"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1540.657,"endTime":1544.537,"body":"able to recall the features of a centre"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1544.617,"endTime":1547.977,"body":"clearance with the kinds of features we"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1544.617,"endTime":1547.977,"body":"talked about are pretty small, right?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1548.697,"endTime":1552.907,"body":"Round about the same odds as I could"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1548.697,"endTime":1552.907,"body":"recognise a recurring pattern in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1552.907,"endTime":1556.467,"body":"an American football game, which"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1552.907,"endTime":1556.467,"body":"is a complete black box to me."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1556.917,"endTime":1560.127,"body":"But if you watch that sport often"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1556.917,"endTime":1560.127,"body":"enough, then you build these kind of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1560.127,"endTime":1564.297,"body":"perceptual schema, these understandings"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1560.127,"endTime":1564.297,"body":"of the patterns that are relevant."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1564.297,"endTime":1566.367,"body":"So it's a level of skill"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1564.297,"endTime":1566.367,"body":"acquisition, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1566.457,"endTime":1571.227,"body":"And any new variation you see"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1566.457,"endTime":1571.227,"body":"on that is not that far from"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1571.227,"endTime":1572.607,"body":"something you've seen before."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1572.697,"endTime":1577.737,"body":"And so there's this idea of chunking"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1572.697,"endTime":1577.737,"body":"isn't there, where you chunk complicated"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1577.737,"endTime":1583.787,"body":"ideas into more manageable neural bits"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1577.737,"endTime":1583.787,"body":"that then anything new that you see"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1583.787,"endTime":1587.657,"body":"has some relationship to, and so you're"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1583.787,"endTime":1587.657,"body":"able to recall it on the basis of other"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1587.657,"endTime":1589.067,"body":"patterns that you've already seen."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1589.067,"endTime":1591.197,"body":"So it's just like what they"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1589.067,"endTime":1591.197,"body":"normally do, but this play was"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1591.197,"endTime":1592.367,"body":"in a slightly different position."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1593.387,"endTime":1596.357,"body":"And that's the challenge I think, in"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1593.387,"endTime":1596.357,"body":"the computer vision space, is getting"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1596.717,"endTime":1601.817,"body":"computers to understand, to have all"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1596.717,"endTime":1601.817,"body":"of this historical information as a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1601.817,"endTime":1607.162,"body":"starting point, and then to be able to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1601.817,"endTime":1607.162,"body":"take that, if we continue the perceptual"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1607.192,"endTime":1611.212,"body":"chunking analogy, for computers to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1607.192,"endTime":1611.212,"body":"have been able to take historical"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1611.212,"endTime":1614.782,"body":"information and learn something about"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1611.212,"endTime":1614.782,"body":"that, so that they only need to see"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1615.232,"endTime":1619.132,"body":"one or two examples of something new"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1615.232,"endTime":1619.132,"body":"to recognise where it sits in the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1619.132,"endTime":1621.022,"body":"greater scheme of centre clearances."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1621.082,"endTime":1622.292,"body":"And that's still an open question."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1622.692,"endTime":1626.472,"body":"And that's the really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1622.692,"endTime":1626.472,"body":"nice thing about, I guess, most sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1626.472,"endTime":1629.642,"body":"as opposed to the, I think the wild is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1626.472,"endTime":1629.642,"body":"what you referred to earlier, because"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1630.282,"endTime":1633.162,"body":"the constraints that are inherent in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1630.282,"endTime":1633.162,"body":"many sports, you know, you've got a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1633.162,"endTime":1636.762,"body":"fixed field position, you've got a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1633.162,"endTime":1636.762,"body":"fixed size, fixed number of people,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1637.212,"endTime":1638.952,"body":"those things aren't changing over time."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1638.952,"endTime":1642.672,"body":"So it does provide an advantage"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1638.952,"endTime":1642.672,"body":"for AI to use the historical data."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1642.672,"endTime":1645.942,"body":"Whereas we know in some problems,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1642.672,"endTime":1645.942,"body":"unfortunately, that's not a luxury we have"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1645.942,"endTime":1650.232,"body":"because the world is changing more quickly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1645.942,"endTime":1650.232,"body":"than we have time to get up to speed with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1650.282,"endTime":1652.232,"body":"and our models become redundant overnight."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1652.372,"endTime":1654.842,"body":"And fortunately that's not always,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1652.372,"endTime":1654.842,"body":"or most of the time, that's not"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1654.842,"endTime":1656.312,"body":"an issue for us in sport, is it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1657.002,"endTime":1659.852,"body":"So I did want to talk to you about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1657.002,"endTime":1659.852,"body":"the ethical part, not so much about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1659.852,"endTime":1663.882,"body":"the ethical considerations, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1659.852,"endTime":1663.882,"body":"just more the future focus, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1664.092,"endTime":1665.442,"body":"I think ethics is part of that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1665.502,"endTime":1667.212,"body":"Data ownership is another one."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1667.542,"endTime":1669.972,"body":"Consent, which probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1667.542,"endTime":1669.972,"body":"falls under ethics."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1670.002,"endTime":1671.202,"body":"Shared infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1671.262,"endTime":1672.402,"body":"All these different things."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1672.462,"endTime":1674.892,"body":"Are we prepared for this in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1672.462,"endTime":1674.892,"body":"sport, as a collective we?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1674.952,"endTime":1677.112,"body":"And what are the big things"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1674.952,"endTime":1677.112,"body":"we're going to run into?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1677.212,"endTime":1679.822,"body":"Yeah I don't think that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1677.212,"endTime":1679.822,"body":"we're even remotely prepared for it."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1679.972,"endTime":1685.222,"body":"I think that the technology has"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1679.972,"endTime":1685.222,"body":"evolved so quickly that we're still,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1685.492,"endTime":1689.902,"body":"after the event, coming to terms with"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1685.492,"endTime":1689.902,"body":"what some of these technologies mean."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1690.622,"endTime":1693.802,"body":"And in no particular order, I can"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1690.622,"endTime":1693.802,"body":"think of a bunch of things that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1694.262,"endTime":1698.402,"body":"are ethical considerations, and I"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1694.262,"endTime":1698.402,"body":"throw open to discussion with no"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1698.432,"endTime":1702.842,"body":"preconceived idea about what's right"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1698.432,"endTime":1702.842,"body":"or wrong or where we should be heading."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1702.842,"endTime":1707.732,"body":"But anytime an athlete performs, there's"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1702.842,"endTime":1707.732,"body":"a huge amount of their own intellectual"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1707.732,"endTime":1712.357,"body":"property embedded in that performance,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1707.732,"endTime":1712.357,"body":"and there's an understanding and an"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1712.357,"endTime":1716.527,"body":"expectation that you perform in a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1712.357,"endTime":1716.527,"body":"public domain and that people are going"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1716.527,"endTime":1719.197,"body":"to video your performance and they're"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1716.527,"endTime":1719.197,"body":"going to see you and they're going to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1719.197,"endTime":1724.897,"body":"understand something about what you"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1719.197,"endTime":1724.897,"body":"do, but we're reaching levels of sports"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1724.897,"endTime":1728.937,"body":"analytics, and computer vision is part"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1724.897,"endTime":1728.937,"body":"of that, as are sensors as we've said,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1729.557,"endTime":1733.832,"body":"but we're building much more detailed"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1729.557,"endTime":1733.832,"body":"understandings of the way that athletes"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1733.942,"endTime":1738.692,"body":"perform and so this whole battleground"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1733.942,"endTime":1738.692,"body":"of sports analytics has the potential"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1738.692,"endTime":1741.392,"body":"to end or shorten people's careers."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1741.392,"endTime":1745.682,"body":"If you're able to unlock the key to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1741.392,"endTime":1745.682,"body":"defeating a certain tennis player,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1746.162,"endTime":1750.482,"body":"then you have the capacity to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1746.162,"endTime":1750.482,"body":"shorten their career or end their"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1750.482,"endTime":1754.472,"body":"career and diminish their capacity"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1750.482,"endTime":1754.472,"body":"to earn an income for their family."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1755.042,"endTime":1757.812,"body":"Now, I'm not saying for a moment that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1755.042,"endTime":1757.812,"body":"we should be living in this utopian"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1757.832,"endTime":1761.582,"body":"world, where people are allowed to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1757.832,"endTime":1761.582,"body":"compete without being scrutinised."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1762.062,"endTime":1766.622,"body":"It's a competitive world, but it's also"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1762.062,"endTime":1766.622,"body":"an imbalanced world because not everybody"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1766.622,"endTime":1769.297,"body":"has access to these kinds of technologies."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1769.327,"endTime":1772.447,"body":"It's the developed nations that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1769.327,"endTime":1772.447,"body":"have access to the computing"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1772.447,"endTime":1775.627,"body":"resources and the expertise to"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1772.447,"endTime":1775.627,"body":"do all these kinds of systems."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1775.687,"endTime":1780.637,"body":"So, I'm not for a moment positioning"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1775.687,"endTime":1780.637,"body":"myself ethically anywhere on this"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1780.637,"endTime":1784.237,"body":"spectrum, just raising these as some of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1780.637,"endTime":1784.237,"body":"the really interesting questions that"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1784.237,"endTime":1786.897,"body":"are starting to evolve that I'm not"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1784.237,"endTime":1786.897,"body":"sure anybody's really thought about."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1786.907,"endTime":1789.847,"body":"And there's a broader question of course"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1786.907,"endTime":1789.847,"body":"with, we're getting science-fiction a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1789.847,"endTime":1794.782,"body":"little bit, but the ethics of artificial"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1789.847,"endTime":1794.782,"body":"intelligence altogether, and the safety"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1794.782,"endTime":1798.772,"body":"of artificial intelligence as we build"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1794.782,"endTime":1798.772,"body":"more and more sophisticated computer"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1798.772,"endTime":1800.602,"body":"vision systems and robotic systems."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1800.842,"endTime":1803.452,"body":"If anybody wants to be thoroughly"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1800.842,"endTime":1803.452,"body":"terrified, they should look up"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1803.572,"endTime":1808.702,"body":"Boston Dynamics on YouTube and take"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1803.572,"endTime":1808.702,"body":"a look at some of the new robotic"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1808.912,"endTime":1813.082,"body":"entities, these bipedal robots"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1808.912,"endTime":1813.082,"body":"that can navigate their way through"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1813.082,"endTime":1815.572,"body":"really tricky physical environments."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1815.962,"endTime":1820.252,"body":"They're about six foot eight and they"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1815.962,"endTime":1820.252,"body":"weigh about 250 kilos and they can jump"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1820.312,"endTime":1824.612,"body":"and they can shoot and they can chase,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1820.312,"endTime":1824.612,"body":"and it's really Terminator kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1824.612,"endTime":1829.982,"body":"And this is the natural landing point"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1824.612,"endTime":1829.982,"body":"for evolution in computer vision and"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1829.982,"endTime":1831.722,"body":"robotics and artificial intelligence."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1831.722,"endTime":1835.592,"body":"And so there's a whole range of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1831.722,"endTime":1835.592,"body":"ethical questions about what should"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1835.592,"endTime":1839.072,"body":"we be, in fact, thinking about when"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1835.592,"endTime":1839.072,"body":"we build computer vision systems."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1839.092,"endTime":1842.972,"body":"I think sport is somewhat separate"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1839.092,"endTime":1842.972,"body":"to those kinds of considerations,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1842.972,"endTime":1846.572,"body":"but there are a lot of ethical"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1842.972,"endTime":1846.572,"body":"considerations to take into"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1846.572,"endTime":1848.402,"body":"account in artificial intelligence."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1848.772,"endTime":1853.372,"body":"You alluded to earlier actually,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1848.772,"endTime":1853.372,"body":"and it's a good point, that many AI"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1853.372,"endTime":1858.262,"body":"algorithms, computer vision included,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1853.372,"endTime":1858.262,"body":"are black box kind of algorithms."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1858.862,"endTime":1864.232,"body":"The image comes in and the predictions"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1858.862,"endTime":1864.232,"body":"that you want, whether it's pose or"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1864.232,"endTime":1868.282,"body":"position or action recognition, or any of"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1864.232,"endTime":1868.282,"body":"those kinds of features, that comes out,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1868.672,"endTime":1873.802,"body":"and all that you have in the middle are"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1868.672,"endTime":1873.802,"body":"these boxes of numerical weights between"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1873.892,"endTime":1877.732,"body":"one and zero, thousands and thousands"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1873.892,"endTime":1877.732,"body":"and thousands of them, and they're"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1877.732,"endTime":1879.682,"body":"impossible for humans to really interpret."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1880.282,"endTime":1884.372,"body":"So what do you do then when decisions"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1880.282,"endTime":1884.372,"body":"about selection to the Olympic Games,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1884.392,"endTime":1889.132,"body":"or decisions about selection for the"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1884.392,"endTime":1889.132,"body":"next game, what do you do when those"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1889.132,"endTime":1893.632,"body":"decisions might be made by an artificial"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1889.132,"endTime":1893.632,"body":"intelligence and nobody can explain"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1893.632,"endTime":1896.092,"body":"to you how the AI came that decision?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1896.392,"endTime":1899.332,"body":"It's not a decision tree where somebody"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1896.392,"endTime":1899.332,"body":"says, okay, these are your positions"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1899.332,"endTime":1901.822,"body":"in the last three games, you've"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1899.332,"endTime":1901.822,"body":"barely touched the ball, you're not"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1901.822,"endTime":1903.412,"body":"scoring, okay, you're on the bench."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1903.862,"endTime":1908.432,"body":"If an algorithm just says, your stats"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1903.862,"endTime":1908.432,"body":"went in and a yes or no answer came"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1908.512,"endTime":1912.182,"body":"out, are you picked or not, and there's"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1908.512,"endTime":1912.182,"body":"nothing in between that's interpretable"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1912.182,"endTime":1917.212,"body":"by a human, do you as an athlete have a"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1912.182,"endTime":1917.212,"body":"right to a better explanation about why"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1917.212,"endTime":1918.712,"body":"that decision has been made about you?"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1919.312,"endTime":1922.402,"body":"And so I think there's a whole range"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1919.312,"endTime":1922.402,"body":"of these kinds of questions that we"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1922.402,"endTime":1926.812,"body":"haven't really got to the teeth of yet"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1922.402,"endTime":1926.812,"body":"because the technology is so new, but"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1926.812,"endTime":1929.302,"body":"I think we're going to have to grapple"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1926.812,"endTime":1929.302,"body":"with a lot of these in the future."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1929.302,"endTime":1932.812,"body":"Particularly as it relates to the impact"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1929.302,"endTime":1932.812,"body":"that these decisions might have on"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1932.812,"endTime":1936.892,"body":"individuals and their capacity to earn"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1932.812,"endTime":1936.892,"body":"an income as professional athletes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1937.322,"endTime":1940.232,"body":"Yeah, I'm glad you brought"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1937.322,"endTime":1940.232,"body":"that example up because I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1940.232,"endTime":1943.932,"body":"about the word bias throughout, and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1940.232,"endTime":1943.932,"body":"think some people have an understanding"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1943.932,"endTime":1949.122,"body":"or at least a perception that bias is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1943.932,"endTime":1949.122,"body":"either heavily reduced or removed when"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1949.122,"endTime":1952.032,"body":"they're handing over these decisions"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1949.122,"endTime":1952.032,"body":"to AI, and that's probably not a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1952.062,"endTime":1953.592,"body":"correct assumption a lot of the time."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1953.622,"endTime":1958.382,"body":"And again, the inability to go and dig"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1953.622,"endTime":1958.382,"body":"into where the recommendation is coming"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1958.382,"endTime":1961.772,"body":"from, particularly with the yes, as you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1958.382,"endTime":1961.772,"body":"said, these black box approaches, that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1961.772,"endTime":1964.507,"body":"is concerning in a lot of applications."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1964.507,"endTime":1965.167,"body":"Maybe not everything."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1965.167,"endTime":1968.407,"body":"Maybe it's fine not to know all the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1965.167,"endTime":1968.407,"body":"time, but I think certainly in selection"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1968.407,"endTime":1971.857,"body":"for an Olympic games, as you said, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1968.407,"endTime":1971.857,"body":"think the athlete has a, at least I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1971.857,"endTime":1973.537,"body":"do, I think they have a right to know."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1973.597,"endTime":1977.077,"body":"But it's a very in-depth topic and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1973.597,"endTime":1977.077,"body":"probably beyond of where we got time"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1977.077,"endTime":1980.467,"body":"for today, but thanks for joining"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1977.077,"endTime":1980.467,"body":"us, Stuart, it's been a pleasure as"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1980.467,"endTime":1983.557,"body":"always and a very interesting topic"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1980.467,"endTime":1983.557,"body":"that is sure to be redundant, a lot"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1983.557,"endTime":1984.847,"body":"of what we said, in five years time."},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1985.417,"endTime":1985.897,"body":"I think so!"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1986.907,"endTime":1988.197,"body":"It's been great to talk,"},{"speaker":"Stuart Morgan","startTime":1986.907,"endTime":1988.197,"body":"thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1993.657,"endTime":1995.457,"body":"Our next guest"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1993.657,"endTime":1995.457,"body":"on the show is Steve McCaig."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1995.637,"endTime":1998.247,"body":"Steve is the Athlete Health"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1995.637,"endTime":1998.247,"body":"Consultant at the English Institute"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1998.247,"endTime":2001.177,"body":"of Sport, where he provides athlete"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1998.247,"endTime":2001.177,"body":"health plans and system-wide"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2001.177,"endTime":2002.917,"body":"initiatives to a range of sports."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2003.367,"endTime":2006.981,"body":"Previously, he worked at the English"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2003.367,"endTime":2006.981,"body":"Cricket Board as a senior physiotherapist,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2006.997,"endTime":2010.657,"body":"and more recently as the Head of Research"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2006.997,"endTime":2010.657,"body":"and Innovation for Physiotherapy."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2011.197,"endTime":2014.497,"body":"Steve has published research on injury"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2011.197,"endTime":2014.497,"body":"surveillance, workload monitoring,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2014.557,"endTime":2018.457,"body":"and musculoskeletal adaptations to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2014.557,"endTime":2018.457,"body":"throwing in cricketers, and is currently"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2018.457,"endTime":2022.567,"body":"completing his PhD on throwing arm"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2018.457,"endTime":2022.567,"body":"pain in elite adolescent players."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2023.047,"endTime":2026.917,"body":"He has three children aged five and under"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2023.047,"endTime":2026.917,"body":"and has little time for much else these"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2026.917,"endTime":2030.217,"body":"days, which is all the more reason as"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2026.917,"endTime":2030.217,"body":"to why we're really lucky to have him"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2030.247,"endTime":2031.987,"body":"provide his thoughts on the topic today."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2032.197,"endTime":2033.917,"body":"Steve, thanks for joining me on the show."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2034.157,"endTime":2034.567,"body":"Thanks, Sam."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2034.567,"endTime":2035.507,"body":"Thanks for the invitation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2035.997,"endTime":2038.957,"body":"Now I want to start off by"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2035.997,"endTime":2038.957,"body":"talking a little about an area that I know"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2038.957,"endTime":2042.837,"body":"you've spent a lot of time in your work,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2038.957,"endTime":2042.837,"body":"particularly with the English Institute"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2042.857,"endTime":2047.057,"body":"of Sport, and that relates to identifying"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2042.857,"endTime":2047.057,"body":"some of the main reasons as to why sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2047.057,"endTime":2049.037,"body":"actually track or monitor athletes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2049.547,"endTime":2053.057,"body":"Now, I think it's fairly intuitive"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2049.547,"endTime":2053.057,"body":"that practitioners want to collect"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2053.057,"endTime":2056.567,"body":"information, and that's probably any"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2053.057,"endTime":2056.567,"body":"type of practitioner, on athletes"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2056.597,"endTime":2059.477,"body":"so that they learn more about the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2056.597,"endTime":2059.477,"body":"athlete and of course informs the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2059.477,"endTime":2060.917,"body":"way in which they engage with them."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2060.947,"endTime":2064.397,"body":"But I think, and I often wonder"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2060.947,"endTime":2064.397,"body":"about this, does athlete tracking and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2064.397,"endTime":2068.087,"body":"monitoring need to be a bit more pointed"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2064.397,"endTime":2068.087,"body":"than just that in terms of its goals?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2068.087,"endTime":2073.037,"body":"For example, some common reasons I hear"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2068.087,"endTime":2073.037,"body":"for undertaking monitoring are to gain"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2073.037,"endTime":2077.477,"body":"insights into an athlete's readiness,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2073.037,"endTime":2077.477,"body":"or their wellness, or to assess their"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2077.477,"endTime":2081.617,"body":"level of fatigue, but I think this raises"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2077.477,"endTime":2081.617,"body":"another question with respect to how well"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2081.617,"endTime":2085.457,"body":"we can actually really measure or even"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2081.617,"endTime":2085.457,"body":"differentiate those types of concepts."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2085.487,"endTime":2087.257,"body":"And then the next step of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2085.487,"endTime":2087.257,"body":"course, is whether they're really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2087.317,"endTime":2088.937,"body":"understood by the key stakeholders."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2089.177,"endTime":2091.897,"body":"Is that something you've explored"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2089.177,"endTime":2091.897,"body":"in some of your work at the EIS?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2091.947,"endTime":2092.857,"body":"Yeah it is, Sam."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2093.017,"endTime":2098.547,"body":"So, the reason I've done a lot of"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2093.017,"endTime":2098.547,"body":"work on our fleet monitoring is at the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2098.567,"endTime":2102.797,"body":"English Institute of Sport we have the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2098.567,"endTime":2102.797,"body":"Air app, and the Air app is an app that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2102.797,"endTime":2106.787,"body":"athletes can use to record self-reported"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2102.797,"endTime":2106.787,"body":"monitoring measures that the sports use."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2107.357,"endTime":2111.437,"body":"And as part of my role, we help advise"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2107.357,"endTime":2111.437,"body":"sports on when using the Air app and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2111.437,"endTime":2115.097,"body":"how to get it in place and when I"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2111.437,"endTime":2115.097,"body":"talk to the sports there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2115.127,"endTime":2118.997,"body":"discussion around what measures we"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2115.127,"endTime":2118.997,"body":"should be taking and what we should be"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2118.997,"endTime":2124.937,"body":"using, but less discussion around the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2118.997,"endTime":2124.937,"body":"why and the purposes and the processes."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2125.477,"endTime":2130.337,"body":"And so that's why we decided to do"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2125.477,"endTime":2130.337,"body":"a review on monitoring within, not"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2130.337,"endTime":2133.227,"body":"only the high performance system, in"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2130.337,"endTime":2133.227,"body":"terms of, you know, what our sports"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2133.227,"endTime":2136.007,"body":"we're doing, what our practitioners"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2133.227,"endTime":2136.007,"body":"were doing, but also what does the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2136.007,"endTime":2138.497,"body":"research tell us about monitoring?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2138.917,"endTime":2141.107,"body":"And so that's how I kind of got into it."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2141.737,"endTime":2145.947,"body":"You know, in terms of the purpose, if you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2141.737,"endTime":2145.947,"body":"ask practitioners why they monitor, most"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2145.947,"endTime":2149.197,"body":"of them, well it'll depend on who you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2145.947,"endTime":2149.197,"body":"ask, first of all, but most of them will"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2149.197,"endTime":2154.127,"body":"say is to prevent injuries and illness,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2149.197,"endTime":2154.127,"body":"and some will say optimising performance."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2154.787,"endTime":2158.957,"body":"And I think we've really got to question"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2154.787,"endTime":2158.957,"body":"ourselves, is monitoring capable of"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2158.957,"endTime":2162.197,"body":"actually preventing injuries and illness,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2158.957,"endTime":2162.197,"body":"or is it just part of the picture?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2162.737,"endTime":2164.327,"body":"And so that's what practitioners will say."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2164.777,"endTime":2167.797,"body":"If you look at probably more the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2164.777,"endTime":2167.797,"body":"theoretical reasons for why we monitor,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2168.157,"endTime":2171.327,"body":"originally it was about training and is"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2168.157,"endTime":2171.327,"body":"our training program being effective and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2171.327,"endTime":2172.987,"body":"is it having the adaptations that we want?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2173.16,"endTime":2175.47,"body":"That was how monitoring"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2173.16,"endTime":2175.47,"body":"really kind of started."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2176.01,"endTime":2179.04,"body":"And then recently we've probably"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2176.01,"endTime":2179.04,"body":"become more interested in, can we"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2179.04,"endTime":2180.9,"body":"use monitoring to prevent injuries?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2180.9,"endTime":2183.45,"body":"And in some cases, people"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2180.9,"endTime":2183.45,"body":"say predict injuries."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2184.02,"endTime":2187.68,"body":"And certainly in team sports, as"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2184.02,"endTime":2187.68,"body":"you mentioned, there's a lot around"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2187.68,"endTime":2191.28,"body":"this concept of readiness, you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2187.68,"endTime":2191.28,"body":"know, are they ready to perform?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2191.37,"endTime":2192.96,"body":"Those are some of the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2191.37,"endTime":2192.96,"body":"reasons that are given."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2193.3,"endTime":2198.925,"body":"I think my take on it is it should just be"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2193.3,"endTime":2198.925,"body":"about informing conversations with coaches"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2198.925,"endTime":2200.155,"body":"and athletes about their management."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2200.575,"endTime":2204.805,"body":"It's just that extra bit of information"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2200.575,"endTime":2204.805,"body":"to help have better conversations about"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2204.805,"endTime":2205.765,"body":"how we're going to look after you."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2206.065,"endTime":2207.505,"body":"That's how I think we"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2206.065,"endTime":2207.505,"body":"should be monitoring."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2207.885,"endTime":2211.575,"body":"Listening to you speak,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2207.885,"endTime":2211.575,"body":"there's kind of three main areas that it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2211.575,"endTime":2214.395,"body":"sounds like you've found in some of your"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2211.575,"endTime":2214.395,"body":"work, which is the performance angle,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2214.445,"endTime":2218.645,"body":"the injury angle, and then that kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2214.445,"endTime":2218.645,"body":"athlete response to training or practice."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2219.165,"endTime":2222.615,"body":"Without being specific about any sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2219.165,"endTime":2222.615,"body":"or any different personnel, what have you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2222.615,"endTime":2227.445,"body":"found just in broad terms with respect"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2222.615,"endTime":2227.445,"body":"to, are they three quite different models"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2227.445,"endTime":2228.705,"body":"that you find that sports are using?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2228.705,"endTime":2232.485,"body":"Like for example, if a sport's very"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2228.705,"endTime":2232.485,"body":"predominantly focused on monitoring"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2232.485,"endTime":2236.445,"body":"for injury prevention versus"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2232.485,"endTime":2236.445,"body":"performance, are you finding they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2236.445,"endTime":2238.859,"body":"using quite different measures or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2236.445,"endTime":2238.859,"body":"have quite a different approach to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2238.859,"endTime":2239.939,"body":"the way that they do their monitoring?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2240.239,"endTime":2242.969,"body":"I think what was most"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2240.239,"endTime":2242.969,"body":"interesting on the journey that we did"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2242.969,"endTime":2247.069,"body":"with this review is when you look at"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2242.969,"endTime":2247.069,"body":"the literature out there, most of it's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2247.069,"endTime":2251.779,"body":"been done in professional team sports,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2247.069,"endTime":2251.779,"body":"and what we saw was there are quite a"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2251.779,"endTime":2254.749,"body":"number of Olympic sports who were just"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2251.779,"endTime":2254.749,"body":"trying to replicate what had been done in"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2254.749,"endTime":2258.469,"body":"professional team sports, and actually not"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2254.749,"endTime":2258.469,"body":"realise well what's appropriate for us."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2259.339,"endTime":2263.989,"body":"And so I think a lot of the measures"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2259.339,"endTime":2263.989,"body":"that are taken can be used for"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2263.989,"endTime":2266.869,"body":"different purposes, but I think it's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2263.989,"endTime":2266.869,"body":"more about actually what's appropriate"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2267.429,"endTime":2270.559,"body":"for our sport and for what we're"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2267.429,"endTime":2270.559,"body":"trying to achieve rather than just"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2270.559,"endTime":2271.939,"body":"a, this has been done elsewhere."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2271.939,"endTime":2274.669,"body":"I don't know if that answers your"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2271.939,"endTime":2274.669,"body":"question, Sam, or covers some of"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2274.669,"endTime":2275.759,"body":"the things you're talking about."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2276.039,"endTime":2278.259,"body":"Yeah, the way I kind"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2276.039,"endTime":2278.259,"body":"of interpret your answer there is some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2278.259,"endTime":2281.799,"body":"sports are going to be more, well they"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2278.259,"endTime":2281.799,"body":"have higher injury rates full-stop, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2281.799,"endTime":2284.259,"body":"it's probably more accepted in certain"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2281.799,"endTime":2284.259,"body":"sports, certainly some of the team"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2284.269,"endTime":2286.749,"body":"sports potentially than say other sports."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2286.749,"endTime":2289.989,"body":"So I think that probably talks to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2286.749,"endTime":2289.989,"body":"culture a little bit in the sport,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2289.989,"endTime":2291.969,"body":"which is something I wanted to ask"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2289.989,"endTime":2291.969,"body":"you about a little bit later on, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2291.969,"endTime":2293.379,"body":"I think I'll save that for later."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2293.829,"endTime":2297.519,"body":"But I wanted to talk a little bit"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2293.829,"endTime":2297.519,"body":"about the notion of data in monitoring,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2297.609,"endTime":2301.779,"body":"and I'm sure that the EIS, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2297.609,"endTime":2301.779,"body":"different sports in the EIS, have"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2302.469,"endTime":2304.149,"body":"various athlete monitoring systems."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2304.179,"endTime":2308.109,"body":"We see AMS's all over most kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2304.179,"endTime":2308.109,"body":"organised, or semi-professional,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2308.109,"endTime":2311.679,"body":"professional sports these days, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2308.109,"endTime":2311.679,"body":"something that I find quite interesting"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2311.679,"endTime":2313.629,"body":"is, monitoring is not really new."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2313.719,"endTime":2316.539,"body":"It's something that's been done"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2313.719,"endTime":2316.539,"body":"by coaches or practitioners for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2316.539,"endTime":2319.089,"body":"a long period of time, even if"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2316.539,"endTime":2319.089,"body":"it's just been through their eyes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2319.749,"endTime":2322.629,"body":"And obviously AMS's, or athlete"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2319.749,"endTime":2322.629,"body":"management systems or monitoring"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2322.629,"endTime":2325.569,"body":"systems, have kind of made it a little"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2322.629,"endTime":2325.569,"body":"bit more structured, and certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2325.569,"endTime":2329.619,"body":"the data we're getting from technology"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2325.569,"endTime":2329.619,"body":"has increased that structure as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2330.009,"endTime":2333.429,"body":"So I think a really interesting question,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2330.009,"endTime":2333.429,"body":"given that we're really still at the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2333.429,"endTime":2336.789,"body":"early stages of that, I know we've been"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2333.429,"endTime":2336.789,"body":"monitoring with data for a little while,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2336.789,"endTime":2339.999,"body":"but we really are still at the early"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2336.789,"endTime":2339.999,"body":"stages of technology I think in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2339.999,"endTime":2345.039,"body":"overall scheme of things, is how do we"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2339.999,"endTime":2345.039,"body":"reconcile the data that we're getting"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2345.039,"endTime":2349.719,"body":"from a piece of machinery, or a piece of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2345.039,"endTime":2349.719,"body":"data that's coming from a technology, with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2349.719,"endTime":2351.249,"body":"that of the coach or the practitioner?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2351.849,"endTime":2355.809,"body":"And from my observations, it seems"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2351.849,"endTime":2355.809,"body":"like technology is starting to measure"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2356.019,"endTime":2359.649,"body":"certain aspects of an athlete's status,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2356.019,"endTime":2359.649,"body":"whatever that is, whether it's readiness"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2359.649,"endTime":2364.479,"body":"or performance or recovery, probably more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2359.649,"endTime":2364.479,"body":"reliably and accurately than say a human"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2364.479,"endTime":2368.199,"body":"can in some cases, but in other aspects,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2364.479,"endTime":2368.199,"body":"it's definitely the reverse is true."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2368.249,"endTime":2372.019,"body":"To be specific for a moment, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2368.249,"endTime":2372.019,"body":"technology measures the psychological"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2372.019,"endTime":2375.139,"body":"component particularly well yet,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2372.019,"endTime":2375.139,"body":"versus say a very experienced coach."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2375.869,"endTime":2378.359,"body":"Can you talk a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2375.869,"endTime":2378.359,"body":"how you're reconciling those two"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2378.359,"endTime":2380.219,"body":"different views of monitoring?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2380.219,"endTime":2382.859,"body":"I mean, you mentioned before"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2380.219,"endTime":2382.859,"body":"that very much the data or the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2382.889,"endTime":2384.749,"body":"monitoring informs the conversation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2385.059,"endTime":2387.929,"body":"Is it as simple as that or is there"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2385.059,"endTime":2387.929,"body":"a need and a place for both of them?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2389.189,"endTime":2390.769,"body":"I think there's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2389.189,"endTime":2390.769,"body":"a need and a place for both."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2390.769,"endTime":2393.829,"body":"And I think, again, it does really"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2390.769,"endTime":2393.829,"body":"depend on the context of the sport."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2393.829,"endTime":2397.959,"body":"So if you've got an A to B sport, which"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2393.829,"endTime":2397.959,"body":"is very physiologically driven - so"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2398.209,"endTime":2403.189,"body":"triathlon, swimming, rowing, those types"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2398.209,"endTime":2403.189,"body":"of sports - you want to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2403.189,"endTime":2408.024,"body":"your training program is stimulating"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2403.189,"endTime":2408.024,"body":"the adaptation that you're desiring,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2408.294,"endTime":2410.484,"body":"and so therefore monitoring that."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2410.574,"endTime":2414.024,"body":"So monitoring actually, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2410.574,"endTime":2414.024,"body":"coaches are in the training program, has"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2414.024,"endTime":2415.554,"body":"what's delivered actually matched that?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2415.794,"endTime":2418.824,"body":"Have we got the physiological"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2415.794,"endTime":2418.824,"body":"response that we want and have we"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2418.824,"endTime":2420.084,"body":"got the adaptations that we want?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2420.204,"endTime":2424.074,"body":"That's pretty critical in those"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2420.204,"endTime":2424.074,"body":"sports, because again, the coach might"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2424.074,"endTime":2427.144,"body":"have their coach's eye about what"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2424.074,"endTime":2427.144,"body":"they're doing, but does that actually"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2427.164,"endTime":2428.304,"body":"match up with what's happening?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2428.754,"endTime":2432.384,"body":"I think the other context too is that one"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2428.754,"endTime":2432.384,"body":"of the challenges that everyone has with"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2432.474,"endTime":2434.514,"body":"monitoring systems can be coach buy-in."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2434.604,"endTime":2437.754,"body":"And if they're used to doing things"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2434.604,"endTime":2437.754,"body":"a certain way, and all of a sudden"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2437.754,"endTime":2441.684,"body":"they're being presented with a lot"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2437.754,"endTime":2441.684,"body":"of data that may not be interpreted"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2441.684,"endTime":2445.854,"body":"that well, or may conflict with"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2441.684,"endTime":2445.854,"body":"their opinions, do they actually act"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2445.854,"endTime":2447.054,"body":"on that information and change it?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2447.084,"endTime":2451.614,"body":"Now I think as technology becomes more"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2447.084,"endTime":2451.614,"body":"commonplace and people get more used"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2451.614,"endTime":2454.314,"body":"to using it, that's going to become"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2451.614,"endTime":2454.314,"body":"less and less, but there is still"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2454.314,"endTime":2457.794,"body":"coaches who, this is my method, this"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2454.314,"endTime":2457.794,"body":"is what I've used, this is what I've"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2457.794,"endTime":2462.264,"body":"been successful with, and getting"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2457.794,"endTime":2462.264,"body":"that buy-in can be quite challenging."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2462.804,"endTime":2466.254,"body":"Whereas if you were in another sport,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2462.804,"endTime":2466.254,"body":"for example, let's say your target"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2466.254,"endTime":2470.974,"body":"sports such as archery or shooting, well"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2466.254,"endTime":2470.974,"body":"the monitoring that you're going to do"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2470.974,"endTime":2473.104,"body":"there is going to be very different."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2473.134,"endTime":2476.384,"body":"You're not necessarily looking for"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2473.134,"endTime":2476.384,"body":"what is their training load and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2476.384,"endTime":2478.844,"body":"what is their response look like"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2476.384,"endTime":2478.844,"body":"to get a physiological response."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2479.474,"endTime":2481.034,"body":"So what's your purpose"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2479.474,"endTime":2481.034,"body":"for monitoring them?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2481.064,"endTime":2484.107,"body":"Is it actually, you just want to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2481.064,"endTime":2484.107,"body":"know have they been doing the volume"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2484.107,"endTime":2485.577,"body":"of training to improve that skill?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2485.757,"endTime":2487.047,"body":"And it's not physiological based."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2487.737,"endTime":2491.007,"body":"And you might want to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2487.737,"endTime":2491.007,"body":"you're really looking at, are there any"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2491.007,"endTime":2495.867,"body":"signs that they could be at risk of injury"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2491.007,"endTime":2495.867,"body":"and illness, and that time loss from"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2495.867,"endTime":2499.077,"body":"those injuries and illness is actually"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2495.867,"endTime":2499.077,"body":"the biggest factor for them rather than"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2499.077,"endTime":2500.407,"body":"actually the training that they're doing."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2501.117,"endTime":2504.237,"body":"So I hope that kind of covers you in"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2501.117,"endTime":2504.237,"body":"the differences in why you might use it."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2504.597,"endTime":2510.087,"body":"And again, the challenge is you've got"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2504.597,"endTime":2510.087,"body":"this coaching model and how actually"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2510.087,"endTime":2513.297,"body":"that fits with that coaching model,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2510.087,"endTime":2513.297,"body":"and that's going to depend so much on"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2513.447,"endTime":2518.217,"body":"the sport, the coach's' backgrounds"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2513.447,"endTime":2518.217,"body":"and coach's beliefs, but also how we"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2518.217,"endTime":2523.097,"body":"present that data to the coach in a"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2518.217,"endTime":2523.097,"body":"way that fits with their approach."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2523.297,"endTime":2526.087,"body":"Well, I'm thinking a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2523.297,"endTime":2526.087,"body":"culture as we go through this conversation"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2526.087,"endTime":2530.567,"body":"and the sport differences and particularly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2526.087,"endTime":2530.567,"body":"those sports that are really coach-led,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2530.587,"endTime":2531.847,"body":"which are a lot of sports still."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2532.717,"endTime":2536.377,"body":"But I'm interested in particularly, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2532.717,"endTime":2536.377,"body":"this is probably another research question"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2536.587,"endTime":2538.957,"body":"in and of itself and something we're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2536.587,"endTime":2538.957,"body":"going to have to grapple with over the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2538.957,"endTime":2544.062,"body":"next couple of decades is, what happens"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2538.957,"endTime":2544.062,"body":"in these scenarios where we have two"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2544.062,"endTime":2548.682,"body":"forms of monitoring measuring the same"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2544.062,"endTime":2548.682,"body":"construct, and let's say it's fatigue"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2548.712,"endTime":2553.122,"body":"where we have a really nice suite of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2548.712,"endTime":2553.122,"body":"physiological data and an athlete that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2553.122,"endTime":2555.972,"body":"says that they are fatigued or they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2553.122,"endTime":2555.972,"body":"not fatigued, and then the coach is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2555.972,"endTime":2558.822,"body":"giving a very different - and maybe"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2555.972,"endTime":2558.822,"body":"even the athlete for that matter - is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2558.822,"endTime":2560.742,"body":"giving a very different response to that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2560.742,"endTime":2563.912,"body":"And that's probably another question which"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2560.742,"endTime":2563.912,"body":"I won't raise now, but is the athlete's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2563.932,"endTime":2565.692,"body":"self-awareness of their own body as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2565.722,"endTime":2569.022,"body":"This is a difficult question, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2565.722,"endTime":2569.022,"body":"think, but how do we reconcile that?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2569.022,"endTime":2571.712,"body":"When we're getting completely"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2569.022,"endTime":2571.712,"body":"different impressions from an athlete"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2571.712,"endTime":2573.182,"body":"versus a coach versus the data?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2573.232,"endTime":2575.837,"body":"The thing that comes to mind for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2573.232,"endTime":2575.837,"body":"me is, with my research hat on,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2575.837,"endTime":2580.007,"body":"is a longitudinal comparison and a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2575.837,"endTime":2580.007,"body":"validation process, but that's very"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2580.007,"endTime":2581.447,"body":"tricky in the applied world, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2581.447,"endTime":2584.807,"body":"So, are there other ways that you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2581.447,"endTime":2584.807,"body":"can reconcile that and move forward?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2585.007,"endTime":2588.617,"body":"I think it depends a lot"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2585.007,"endTime":2588.617,"body":"upon how I'm using the multidisciplinary"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2588.617,"endTime":2593.597,"body":"team works within that sport, but also,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2588.617,"endTime":2593.597,"body":"I suppose the interdisciplinary team,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2593.627,"endTime":2596.647,"body":"so actually, multidisciplinary team"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2593.627,"endTime":2596.647,"body":"just implies that we've got people from"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2596.647,"endTime":2598.417,"body":"disciplines working in the same sport."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2598.417,"endTime":2600.007,"body":"That doesn't mean they're"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2598.417,"endTime":2600.007,"body":"necessarily working together."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2600.487,"endTime":2603.817,"body":"And I think it depends on how"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2600.487,"endTime":2603.817,"body":"decisions are made within that sport."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2603.997,"endTime":2604.837,"body":"What's the forum?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2604.837,"endTime":2608.017,"body":"Do you have quite a didactic coach"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2604.837,"endTime":2608.017,"body":"who it's, you know, my way or the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2608.017,"endTime":2611.817,"body":"highway, or actually do you have"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2608.017,"endTime":2611.817,"body":"a forum which is athlete-centred,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2611.817,"endTime":2616.237,"body":"coach-led, where everyone's allowed"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2611.817,"endTime":2616.237,"body":"to input, and then we discuss, what is"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2616.237,"endTime":2617.497,"body":"the best way to manage that athlete?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2617.497,"endTime":2620.197,"body":"And we make that collaborative"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2617.497,"endTime":2620.197,"body":"decision with the athlete at heart."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2620.947,"endTime":2622.957,"body":"I think it also depends on risk."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2623.387,"endTime":2627.677,"body":"So, what is the risk to that athlete"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2623.387,"endTime":2627.677,"body":"if they ignore that information?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2628.017,"endTime":2631.947,"body":"The risk is, okay, do they get"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2628.017,"endTime":2631.947,"body":"nonfunctional, overreaching,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2632.217,"endTime":2633.957,"body":"overtraining syndrome, injured or ill?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2634.017,"endTime":2634.737,"body":"That's a risk."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2635.307,"endTime":2638.607,"body":"But also if you're in an Olympics"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2635.307,"endTime":2638.607,"body":"scenario, where you've got to get"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2638.607,"endTime":2641.577,"body":"a certain volume of training in"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2638.607,"endTime":2641.577,"body":"to perform, if we pull you out"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2641.577,"endTime":2645.177,"body":"when you don't need to be, that's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2641.577,"endTime":2645.177,"body":"a potential risk to performance."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2645.237,"endTime":2647.757,"body":"And I think there's lots"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2645.237,"endTime":2647.757,"body":"of shades of gray there."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2648.117,"endTime":2652.857,"body":"And again, it does depend upon what"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2648.117,"endTime":2652.857,"body":"is the actual risk to these athletes?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2653.487,"endTime":2657.427,"body":"And that's going to depend a lot"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2653.487,"endTime":2657.427,"body":"on the athlete, the goal, the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2657.427,"endTime":2660.757,"body":"time in the cycle, what that bit"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2657.427,"endTime":2660.757,"body":"of information is telling us."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2661.192,"endTime":2664.192,"body":"And I think that's where, as I"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2661.192,"endTime":2664.192,"body":"talked about earlier in the review,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2664.462,"endTime":2669.032,"body":"the processes that support your"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2664.462,"endTime":2669.032,"body":"monitoring system are more important"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2669.052,"endTime":2671.512,"body":"than the actual measure that you're"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2669.052,"endTime":2671.512,"body":"taking, if you want it to have input."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2672.102,"endTime":2674.922,"body":"So with that in mind"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2672.102,"endTime":2674.922,"body":"then, and coming back to the culture"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2674.922,"endTime":2679.182,"body":"pieces as well, and again without being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2674.922,"endTime":2679.182,"body":"specific, are there instances where you've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2679.182,"endTime":2683.982,"body":"felt like a sport, is it going over the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2679.182,"endTime":2683.982,"body":"top in terms of what they're covering?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2683.982,"endTime":2686.112,"body":"Or maybe the other way,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2683.982,"endTime":2686.112,"body":"maybe not doing enough?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2686.094,"endTime":2689.364,"body":"With a dominant practitioner, who's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2686.094,"endTime":2689.364,"body":"having a large say, and maybe it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2689.364,"endTime":2692.364,"body":"an individual practitioner having a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2689.364,"endTime":2692.364,"body":"large say on what it looks like, or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2692.364,"endTime":2693.444,"body":"indeed the athlete for that matter."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2694.344,"endTime":2697.874,"body":"Have there been instances where you've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2694.344,"endTime":2697.874,"body":"had to intervene in your role or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2697.874,"endTime":2700.844,"body":"at least work with stakeholders to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2697.874,"endTime":2700.844,"body":"intervene to increase that information"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2700.844,"endTime":2702.644,"body":"coming in, or indeed decrease it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2703.094,"endTime":2705.854,"body":"And that's really changing a culture,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2703.094,"endTime":2705.854,"body":"I'd imagine, if you do have to do that."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2706.324,"endTime":2710.554,"body":"One of the tendencies with"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2706.324,"endTime":2710.554,"body":"technology, and that there are so many"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2710.554,"endTime":2713.974,"body":"different measures you can take in so many"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2710.554,"endTime":2713.974,"body":"different metrics and new stuff coming"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2713.974,"endTime":2720.664,"body":"out every day, is the temptation is to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2713.974,"endTime":2720.664,"body":"just look at it all and feed it all back."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2721.084,"endTime":2726.604,"body":"And then again, when you get really"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2721.084,"endTime":2726.604,"body":"busy feedback sheets or PDF that you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2726.604,"endTime":2729.934,"body":"hand to a coach, if it's taking you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2726.604,"endTime":2729.934,"body":"more than 30 seconds to interpret"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2729.934,"endTime":2733.874,"body":"it, and that's probably generous,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2729.934,"endTime":2733.874,"body":"and you have to work really hard to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2733.874,"endTime":2737.444,"body":"understand what this means in doing"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2733.874,"endTime":2737.444,"body":"it, you're probably doing too much."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2737.864,"endTime":2741.304,"body":"And again, because there are some"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2737.864,"endTime":2741.304,"body":"coaches who they won't look at"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2741.304,"endTime":2742.924,"body":"that unless it's really obvious."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2743.464,"endTime":2746.674,"body":"The only two is if you've got all"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2743.464,"endTime":2746.674,"body":"these measures, well, what are"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2746.674,"endTime":2747.784,"body":"you really hanging your hat on?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2747.874,"endTime":2750.964,"body":"What's the thing that actually"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2747.874,"endTime":2750.964,"body":"you value that is most important?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2751.114,"endTime":2755.314,"body":"And again, I think it's one where you kind"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2751.114,"endTime":2755.314,"body":"of need to commit to what you think is the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2755.314,"endTime":2760.054,"body":"key measure and really track that closely"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2755.314,"endTime":2760.054,"body":"over time, rather than just do everything"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2760.864,"endTime":2763.234,"body":"and then not be able to interpret"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2760.864,"endTime":2763.234,"body":"it, and I've definitely seen that."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2763.234,"endTime":2767.264,"body":"And I think GPS is, and the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2763.234,"endTime":2767.264,"body":"inertial measurement units, are"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2767.284,"endTime":2770.194,"body":"brilliant, but there's so many"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2767.284,"endTime":2770.194,"body":"different metrics they can spit out."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2770.624,"endTime":2773.214,"body":"I know the football codes have probably"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2770.624,"endTime":2773.214,"body":"gone through an evolution of, well"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2773.744,"endTime":2776.264,"body":"actually, what is most important for us?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2776.954,"endTime":2780.044,"body":"And I think that's when it comes back"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2776.954,"endTime":2780.044,"body":"down to the, just that clarity of purpose,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2780.044,"endTime":2782.384,"body":"like actually, what are we trying to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2780.044,"endTime":2782.384,"body":"achieve and what do we need to do?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2783.134,"endTime":2787.724,"body":"I think from an athlete's self-reported"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2783.134,"endTime":2787.724,"body":"measures too, with these apps that you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2787.724,"endTime":2791.724,"body":"can use with the different question"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2787.724,"endTime":2791.724,"body":"options, there's a tendency for, I want"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2791.724,"endTime":2794.584,"body":"to ask about this, I want to ask about"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2791.724,"endTime":2794.584,"body":"mood, I want to ask about sleep, I want"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2794.584,"endTime":2798.994,"body":"to ask about this, and then before you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2794.584,"endTime":2798.994,"body":"know it you've got 10 questions, which"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2799.144,"endTime":2802.984,"body":"haven't necessarily been validated, if"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2799.144,"endTime":2802.984,"body":"they're ones that you've developed, and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2803.044,"endTime":2806.524,"body":"the athlete gets questionnaire fatigue,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2803.044,"endTime":2806.524,"body":"because they're like, I'm having to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2806.524,"endTime":2809.194,"body":"fill in this thing all the time, so"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2806.524,"endTime":2809.194,"body":"they just put the same answers down."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2809.884,"endTime":2811.774,"body":"They don't get any feedback,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2809.884,"endTime":2811.774,"body":"so they don't value it."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2812.524,"endTime":2814.774,"body":"I think those are things"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2812.524,"endTime":2814.774,"body":"I've seen as well."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2814.774,"endTime":2817.594,"body":"It's like, okay, well actually, when"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2814.774,"endTime":2817.594,"body":"you're asking an athlete for these"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2817.594,"endTime":2820.474,"body":"daily self-reported measures, what are"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2817.594,"endTime":2820.474,"body":"you actually trying to get from it?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2821.044,"endTime":2824.764,"body":"And I think we're probably seeing the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2821.044,"endTime":2824.764,"body":"pendulum going from people asking,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2824.764,"endTime":2825.994,"body":"well, what are these daily measures?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2826.604,"endTime":2829.769,"body":"To some people saying actually"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2826.604,"endTime":2829.769,"body":"are they even worthwhile at all?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2830.285,"endTime":2834.382,"body":"Some of that sports have gone to a stage"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2830.285,"endTime":2834.382,"body":"now where they're not asking for a score"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2834.382,"endTime":2838.442,"body":"on these measures, they're just saying"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2834.382,"endTime":2838.442,"body":"do you have any concerns in these areas?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2838.832,"endTime":2842.732,"body":"And then that flags a conversation, they"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2838.832,"endTime":2842.732,"body":"have a conversation with the athlete"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2842.732,"endTime":2846.332,"body":"and they decide what they do, rather"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2842.732,"endTime":2846.332,"body":"than trying to interpret, do I need to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2846.332,"endTime":2848.432,"body":"act on this score that's six out of 10?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2848.942,"endTime":2849.782,"body":"What does that mean?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2849.902,"endTime":2853.532,"body":"And so I think we've definitely seen"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2849.902,"endTime":2853.532,"body":"that shift of, okay we can ask all these"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2853.532,"endTime":2857.072,"body":"things let's ask everything, to oh hang"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2853.532,"endTime":2857.072,"body":"on it's not really telling us what we"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2857.072,"endTime":2861.422,"body":"think it is, in some cases let's not"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2857.072,"endTime":2861.422,"body":"even ask at all, to this kind of middle"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2861.422,"endTime":2865.262,"body":"ground of, okay, is there any issue that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2861.422,"endTime":2865.262,"body":"you would like to talk to someone about?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2866.099,"endTime":2869.705,"body":"To me that is probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2866.099,"endTime":2869.705,"body":"evidence of how important a role like"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2869.705,"endTime":2873.155,"body":"yours is, really, and having it in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2869.705,"endTime":2873.155,"body":"sports or at least organisations like"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2873.155,"endTime":2876.395,"body":"the governing bodies or institutes"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2873.155,"endTime":2876.395,"body":"of sport, to have that role."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2876.575,"endTime":2880.505,"body":"But it also leads me to another"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2876.575,"endTime":2880.505,"body":"question, which is I wonder where"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2880.505,"endTime":2883.865,"body":"the responsibility lies in terms"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2880.505,"endTime":2883.865,"body":"of ensuring that these things are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2883.865,"endTime":2885.575,"body":"valid and they are fit for purpose."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2886.115,"endTime":2890.075,"body":"You mentioned then, it's impossible"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2886.115,"endTime":2890.075,"body":"to keep up with the, not only the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2890.105,"endTime":2892.745,"body":"types of measures that are coming"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2890.105,"endTime":2892.745,"body":"out or the types of technology"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2892.745,"endTime":2895.385,"body":"that are coming out, but also the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2892.745,"endTime":2895.385,"body":"volume of options that someone has."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2895.925,"endTime":2899.015,"body":"And again, the typical practitioner,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2895.925,"endTime":2899.015,"body":"whether it's a physiotherapist or a sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2899.015,"endTime":2902.295,"body":"scientist or strength and conditioning"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2899.015,"endTime":2902.295,"body":"coach, that's a very tricky job, when"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2902.315,"endTime":2903.455,"body":"they're already servicing athletes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2903.455,"endTime":2906.045,"body":"So, is that something that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2903.455,"endTime":2906.045,"body":"you've looked at as well?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2906.045,"endTime":2907.155,"body":"Like how that model works?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2907.155,"endTime":2910.095,"body":"Is it through collaborations with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2907.155,"endTime":2910.095,"body":"third parties that are doing that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2910.095,"endTime":2912.525,"body":"validation or is it something that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2910.095,"endTime":2912.525,"body":"you're trying to handle in-house?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2912.525,"endTime":2915.525,"body":"I know once upon a time, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2912.525,"endTime":2915.525,"body":"it was a major part of selling the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2915.525,"endTime":2918.185,"body":"institutes of sports, but it's a big"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2915.525,"endTime":2918.185,"body":"job in and of itself particularly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2918.185,"endTime":2920.715,"body":"as there's a lot more technology"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2918.185,"endTime":2920.715,"body":"around than there was 20 years ago."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2921.215,"endTime":2923.555,"body":"And getting"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2921.215,"endTime":2923.555,"body":"bigger and bigger all the time."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2924.005,"endTime":2927.455,"body":"And they're driven by commercial"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2924.005,"endTime":2927.455,"body":"imperatives as well, with wanting to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2927.455,"endTime":2930.815,"body":"get things out there and your athletes"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2927.455,"endTime":2930.815,"body":"are being approached by companies"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2930.875,"endTime":2934.895,"body":"to wear this thing or do this, and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2930.875,"endTime":2934.895,"body":"it's really quite challenging for the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2934.895,"endTime":2936.575,"body":"individual practitioners to keep pace."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2937.505,"endTime":2940.025,"body":"In terms of the organisations"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2937.505,"endTime":2940.025,"body":"themselves, you know, you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2940.025,"endTime":2943.595,"body":"think that they've gone through some"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2940.025,"endTime":2943.595,"body":"validation process of their metrics,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2943.595,"endTime":2945.005,"body":"and I think that that is happening."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2945.035,"endTime":2948.785,"body":"Although in terms of being able to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2945.035,"endTime":2948.785,"body":"see published evidence of that being"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2948.785,"endTime":2953.79,"body":"done by independent organisations"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2948.785,"endTime":2953.79,"body":"is uncommon, shall we say?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2954.21,"endTime":2955.23,"body":"Although there's more coming."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2955.23,"endTime":2958.02,"body":"But I think the first thing"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2955.23,"endTime":2958.02,"body":"for me is with any measure that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2958.02,"endTime":2959.66,"body":"you're taking, is it reliable?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2959.85,"endTime":2961.74,"body":"Does it claim to measure"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2959.85,"endTime":2961.74,"body":"what it claims to measure?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2961.74,"endTime":2964.68,"body":"And I think on that validity point"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2961.74,"endTime":2964.68,"body":"of view, touching back to what you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2964.68,"endTime":2968.52,"body":"talked about earlier is, if we take"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2964.68,"endTime":2968.52,"body":"account of movement jump and the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2968.52,"endTime":2972.34,"body":"various metrics you can get from a"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2968.52,"endTime":2972.34,"body":"force platform that may indicate neuro"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2972.34,"endTime":2977.05,"body":"muscular fatigue, we're then assuming"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2972.34,"endTime":2977.05,"body":"that that is a measure of readiness."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2977.59,"endTime":2980.38,"body":"The readiness is a construct which"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2977.59,"endTime":2980.38,"body":"makes up lots of different things."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2980.38,"endTime":2984.7,"body":"So, you know, a jump on a countermovement"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2980.38,"endTime":2984.7,"body":"jump on a force platform, is a valid"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2984.7,"endTime":2989.32,"body":"measure of that jump, that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2984.7,"endTime":2989.32,"body":"make that a valid measure of readiness"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2989.41,"endTime":2991.87,"body":"for sport X, sport Y, sport Z."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2992.53,"endTime":2996.88,"body":"So even for a device such as a"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2992.53,"endTime":2996.88,"body":"countermovement jump on a force platform,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2996.88,"endTime":3000.53,"body":"which there's so much reliability"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":2996.88,"endTime":3000.53,"body":"data out there and so much that it"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3000.53,"endTime":3004.13,"body":"is a valid measure, that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3000.53,"endTime":3004.13,"body":"make it valid for the construct that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3004.2,"endTime":3009.315,"body":"you're interested in necessarily, I've"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3004.2,"endTime":3009.315,"body":"probably go way off topic there, but..."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3009.315,"endTime":3011.425,"body":"No, not at all, I'm really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3009.315,"endTime":3011.425,"body":"glad you brought that up because I've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3011.425,"endTime":3014.245,"body":"had that conversation in the past with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3011.425,"endTime":3014.245,"body":"people and I think it's hard enough to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3014.245,"endTime":3018.415,"body":"get certain people to understand the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3014.245,"endTime":3018.415,"body":"concept of validity without actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3018.415,"endTime":3021.805,"body":"getting them to understand the different"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3018.415,"endTime":3021.805,"body":"types of validity and also the different"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3021.805,"endTime":3024.585,"body":"applications of it, and I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3021.805,"endTime":3024.585,"body":"really good example that you made then."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3024.838,"endTime":3027.298,"body":"This is a question that's maybe a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3024.838,"endTime":3027.298,"body":"little bit off topic as well, but is it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3027.408,"endTime":3029.308,"body":"regulated well enough, these technologies?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3029.308,"endTime":3030.128,"body":"And whose job is it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3030.128,"endTime":3033.728,"body":"Maybe that's the challenge in regulating"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3030.128,"endTime":3033.728,"body":"and obviously validating a piece of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3033.728,"endTime":3036.818,"body":"technology, that the results could vary"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3033.728,"endTime":3036.818,"body":"depending on the application, right?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3036.818,"endTime":3039.158,"body":"So it's a tricky job to regulate."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3039.158,"endTime":3043.268,"body":"And if, for example, EIS was going to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3039.158,"endTime":3043.268,"body":"put someone on technology validation,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3043.288,"endTime":3046.528,"body":"they may have someone like that, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3043.288,"endTime":3046.528,"body":"there would be a number of full-time jobs"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3046.528,"endTime":3047.878,"body":"I'd imagine to get that job done well."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3048.148,"endTime":3050.818,"body":"Yeah I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3048.148,"endTime":3050.818,"body":"certainly some bits of tech, which"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3050.818,"endTime":3055.018,"body":"we have done some internal validity"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3050.818,"endTime":3055.018,"body":"on, and again that's probably the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3055.018,"endTime":3058.088,"body":"ones which are most commonly used,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3055.018,"endTime":3058.088,"body":"but as you mentioned there's new"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3058.118,"endTime":3060.753,"body":"products coming on a weekly basis."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3061.413,"endTime":3064.153,"body":"It's a full-time, well it's more"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3061.413,"endTime":3064.153,"body":"than a full-time job for one person."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3064.153,"endTime":3068.353,"body":"And then again I think, is that a"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3064.153,"endTime":3068.353,"body":"useful way of spending resources?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3068.433,"endTime":3070.183,"body":"On just validating"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3068.433,"endTime":3070.183,"body":"these different metrics?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3070.183,"endTime":3074.563,"body":"And I think that's where I kind of come"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3070.183,"endTime":3074.563,"body":"back to first principles, because that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3074.563,"endTime":3078.853,"body":"bit of kit could be valid, it could"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3074.563,"endTime":3078.853,"body":"be reliable, but if you're not really"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3078.853,"endTime":3082.003,"body":"clear on what your purpose is for why"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3078.853,"endTime":3082.003,"body":"you're using it, or you don't have the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3082.003,"endTime":3086.393,"body":"processes in place to actually capture"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3082.003,"endTime":3086.393,"body":"it in a time efficient manner, analyse"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3086.413,"endTime":3089.413,"body":"it, interpret it, contextualise it,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3086.413,"endTime":3089.413,"body":"feed back to the relevant people and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3089.413,"endTime":3091.133,"body":"act on it, well why are you doing it?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3091.223,"endTime":3094.143,"body":"I've spoken to friends in other"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3091.223,"endTime":3094.143,"body":"sports where they've just got files"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3094.143,"endTime":3097.533,"body":"and files of monitoring data that"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3094.143,"endTime":3097.533,"body":"just sits on a computer somewhere"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3097.533,"endTime":3101.463,"body":"that no one's ever looked at because"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3097.533,"endTime":3101.463,"body":"we have to be monitoring and that's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3101.463,"endTime":3102.963,"body":"not really an effective use of time."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3103.113,"endTime":3107.403,"body":"And so I think for me it's really"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3103.113,"endTime":3107.403,"body":"nail why you're doing it and can"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3107.403,"endTime":3108.783,"body":"you do it in your environments?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3108.993,"endTime":3111.693,"body":"And then let's pick the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3108.993,"endTime":3111.693,"body":"measure, as opposed to, here's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3111.693,"endTime":3113.013,"body":"this new device let's use it."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3113.313,"endTime":3117.423,"body":"No, actually, let's really identify"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3113.313,"endTime":3117.423,"body":"what we're trying to achieve and then"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3117.423,"endTime":3120.783,"body":"let's figure what is the best way to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3117.423,"endTime":3120.783,"body":"actually achieve that, because the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3120.783,"endTime":3124.803,"body":"technology can be quite seductive in its"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3120.783,"endTime":3124.803,"body":"claims and there's pressure to be seen"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3124.803,"endTime":3126.963,"body":"to be using the most up-to-date thing."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3127.243,"endTime":3128.573,"body":"I would 100"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3127.243,"endTime":3128.573,"body":"percent agree with that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3128.573,"endTime":3132.413,"body":"So, coming back to your countermovement"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3128.573,"endTime":3132.413,"body":"jump example, let's say neuromuscular"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3132.433,"endTime":3136.413,"body":"fatigue is the measure that's deemed"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3132.433,"endTime":3136.413,"body":"important, you then use that particular"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3136.413,"endTime":3138.423,"body":"test as a proxy, and you agree on that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3138.423,"endTime":3140.733,"body":"And then of course, the knowing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3138.423,"endTime":3140.733,"body":"that the technology is going to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3140.733,"endTime":3144.153,"body":"change all the time in a sense it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3140.733,"endTime":3144.153,"body":"does matter, but it doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3144.153,"endTime":3147.333,"body":"You know, you're planning that there"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3144.153,"endTime":3147.333,"body":"could be a better provider in 12, 24"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3147.333,"endTime":3151.323,"body":"months, but the constant is that you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3147.333,"endTime":3151.323,"body":"associate the countermovement jump"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3151.323,"endTime":3153.783,"body":"with neuromuscular fatigue and you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3151.323,"endTime":3153.783,"body":"keep that running through your program."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3154.263,"endTime":3156.663,"body":"So, yeah, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3154.263,"endTime":3156.663,"body":"probably the best way that that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3156.663,"endTime":3157.723,"body":"whole approach can be covered."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3158.06,"endTime":3160.8,"body":"And on that point, Sam,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3158.06,"endTime":3160.8,"body":"that doesn't mean that once you've"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3160.82,"endTime":3163.19,"body":"got your process in, that's it."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3163.82,"endTime":3167.39,"body":"There's a continual reiterating"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3163.82,"endTime":3167.39,"body":"and evolving and reviewing"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3167.39,"endTime":3168.53,"body":"and pushing forwards."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3168.53,"endTime":3170.61,"body":"And I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3168.53,"endTime":3170.61,"body":"final part I omitteed."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3170.63,"endTime":3173.66,"body":"Once we've got it up and running,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3170.63,"endTime":3173.66,"body":"we then need to review it and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3173.66,"endTime":3174.83,"body":"say, is this being effective?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3174.83,"endTime":3176.24,"body":"Is there something new coming along?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3176.36,"endTime":3179.99,"body":"Get that feedback from the athletes"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3176.36,"endTime":3179.99,"body":"and coaches around that whole process."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3180.61,"endTime":3184.78,"body":"And again, if there becomes a better"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3180.61,"endTime":3184.78,"body":"bit of kit on the market to help achieve"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3184.78,"endTime":3186.55,"body":"that purpose, well then you jump on it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3186.84,"endTime":3189.09,"body":"Yeah and that brings"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3186.84,"endTime":3189.09,"body":"me to a question that I wanted to ask"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3189.09,"endTime":3193.11,"body":"you now anyway, it's a nice way segue"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3189.09,"endTime":3193.11,"body":"in, which we've kind of talked about a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3193.11,"endTime":3196.23,"body":"little bit, but the question was going"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3193.11,"endTime":3196.23,"body":"to be around how do you know when you're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3196.23,"endTime":3198.38,"body":"monitoring too much, or maybe not enough?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3198.38,"endTime":3201.5,"body":"And we kind of talked about that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3198.38,"endTime":3201.5,"body":"earlier, but I think with the output, you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3201.5,"endTime":3205.28,"body":"mentioned, if a coach is taking, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3201.5,"endTime":3205.28,"body":"30 seconds to look at the output, it's too"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3205.28,"endTime":3207.2,"body":"long, which I think we'd all agree with."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3208.09,"endTime":3211.72,"body":"But that doesn't really solve the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3208.09,"endTime":3211.72,"body":"problem of, let's say down the track,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3211.77,"endTime":3215.07,"body":"the scenario you kind of outlined then"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3211.77,"endTime":3215.07,"body":"does start to occur and we start to get"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3215.07,"endTime":3218.25,"body":"a lot of good measures on a lot of good"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3215.07,"endTime":3218.25,"body":"constructs or a lot of good components"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3218.25,"endTime":3219.78,"body":"of performance that we don't have now."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3220.44,"endTime":3222.75,"body":"We're probably negligent if"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3220.44,"endTime":3222.75,"body":"we're not looking at that data"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3222.75,"endTime":3223.77,"body":"in some way, shape or form."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3223.77,"endTime":3226.98,"body":"And so to be specific, let's say we"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3223.77,"endTime":3226.98,"body":"start to understand the psychological"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3226.98,"endTime":3228.75,"body":"component of performance better with data."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3228.8,"endTime":3232.97,"body":"We get more granular, sophisticated"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3228.8,"endTime":3232.97,"body":"measures of recovery and some of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3232.97,"endTime":3235.49,"body":"the measures we can get now in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3232.97,"endTime":3235.49,"body":"lab, we can get a little bit easier."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3236.06,"endTime":3238.04,"body":"And all of a sudden we"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3236.06,"endTime":3238.04,"body":"have a large suite again."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3238.55,"endTime":3240.35,"body":"Obviously you've got to take"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3238.55,"endTime":3240.35,"body":"the information in, that's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3240.35,"endTime":3241.19,"body":"going to be a constant."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3241.79,"endTime":3245.517,"body":"And assuming we're not going to roll"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3241.79,"endTime":3245.517,"body":"out and automate readiness decisions"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3245.517,"endTime":3249.247,"body":"yet to a computer, which may well be on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3245.517,"endTime":3249.247,"body":"their radar, how are we going to know?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3249.247,"endTime":3252.937,"body":"Is it simply going to be constrained"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3249.247,"endTime":3252.937,"body":"by time and cost and these things,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3252.937,"endTime":3256.087,"body":"or should there be some kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3252.937,"endTime":3256.087,"body":"philosophy behind that I wonder?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3256.117,"endTime":3258.938,"body":"Or is it again, maybe a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3256.117,"endTime":3258.938,"body":"sport by sport problem?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3259.388,"endTime":3262.248,"body":"Let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3259.388,"endTime":3262.248,"body":"readiness and I think ready for what?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3262.398,"endTime":3265.788,"body":"And I think being ready for a game of"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3262.398,"endTime":3265.788,"body":"AFL on Saturday is very different to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3265.788,"endTime":3270.648,"body":"being ready for this block of training"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3265.788,"endTime":3270.648,"body":"in an A to B sport like rowing, triathlon"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3270.648,"endTime":3276.178,"body":"or swimming, where they might be doing"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3270.648,"endTime":3276.178,"body":"a really hard block and actually they"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3276.178,"endTime":3277.918,"body":"don't need to be a hundred percent ready."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3277.948,"endTime":3282.388,"body":"And I think that's what is actually"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3277.948,"endTime":3282.388,"body":"relevant, whereas closer to a major"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3282.388,"endTime":3286.228,"body":"games or an Olympics, well actually"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3282.388,"endTime":3286.228,"body":"that's different, we want them"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3286.228,"endTime":3289.348,"body":"to be optimally ready or as close"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3286.228,"endTime":3289.348,"body":"to optimally ready as possible."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3289.348,"endTime":3293.288,"body":"So I think it's periodising when these"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3289.348,"endTime":3293.288,"body":"metrics are most important in Olympic"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3293.308,"endTime":3296.298,"body":"sports, whereas in professional sports,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3293.308,"endTime":3296.298,"body":"when the next game is the next most"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3296.298,"endTime":3300.528,"body":"important one to win and coaches' careers"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3296.298,"endTime":3300.528,"body":"on the line and professional careers"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3300.528,"endTime":3305.148,"body":"on the line, readiness in that context"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3300.528,"endTime":3305.148,"body":"is very different to an Olympic sport."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3305.718,"endTime":3309.108,"body":"Now that doesn't mean that while"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3305.718,"endTime":3309.108,"body":"they're doing that hard block, you"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3309.108,"endTime":3313.878,"body":"can't be gathering data to understand"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3309.108,"endTime":3313.878,"body":"readiness, which might be used later on."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3314.628,"endTime":3317.898,"body":"And I think touching on the things where"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3314.628,"endTime":3317.898,"body":"I may have come across a bit black and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3317.898,"endTime":3321.258,"body":"white in terms of, if you're not using"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3317.898,"endTime":3321.258,"body":"that data, why are you collecting it?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3321.648,"endTime":3325.458,"body":"But that doesn't mean that, okay,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3321.648,"endTime":3325.458,"body":"we're not sure about this thing,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3325.758,"endTime":3329.148,"body":"let's just track it over 12"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3325.758,"endTime":3329.148,"body":"months and see if it's valuable."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3329.148,"endTime":3333.598,"body":"I think there's a real role for"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3329.148,"endTime":3333.598,"body":"that, because again, if you just"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3333.598,"endTime":3335.608,"body":"go, well, we're not sure, so we're"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3333.598,"endTime":3335.608,"body":"not going to do it well, you miss"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3335.608,"endTime":3336.868,"body":"out on that opportunity to learn."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3336.958,"endTime":3340.368,"body":"And I think, certainly in an Olympic"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3336.958,"endTime":3340.368,"body":"cycle, the time to do that is in the"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3340.718,"endTime":3343.968,"body":"first one or two years on the cycle"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3340.718,"endTime":3343.968,"body":"where you learn as much as you can"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3343.968,"endTime":3346.668,"body":"and then going into your third and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3343.968,"endTime":3346.668,"body":"fourth year, it's like, okay right,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3347.328,"endTime":3349.668,"body":"we're really clear on what we're"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3347.328,"endTime":3349.668,"body":"going to do here, we've captured these"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3349.668,"endTime":3351.198,"body":"learnings, we're going to move forward."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3352.127,"endTime":3357.177,"body":"There are opportunities to go broadly and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3352.127,"endTime":3357.177,"body":"learn, but it's a matter of, okay, we're"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3357.177,"endTime":3359.307,"body":"going to trial this for X amount of time."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3359.997,"endTime":3363.427,"body":"We're going to say, what did we learn, and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3359.997,"endTime":3363.427,"body":"then what do we integrate moving forwards?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3363.817,"endTime":3367.097,"body":"As long as everyone's clear that that's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3363.817,"endTime":3367.097,"body":"why we're doing it, and in particular"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3367.117,"endTime":3371.207,"body":"the athlete, because if an athlete sees"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3367.117,"endTime":3371.207,"body":"all this stuff being done to them, but"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3371.237,"endTime":3374.567,"body":"they're not getting any feedback or it's"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3371.237,"endTime":3374.567,"body":"not changing how they're doing it, then"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3374.627,"endTime":3376.667,"body":"their buy-in is going to drop as well."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3377.177,"endTime":3380.787,"body":"And I think just being really clear"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3377.177,"endTime":3380.787,"body":"on, okay, we're taking this stuff,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3381.522,"endTime":3383.442,"body":"we're not sure if it's going to be"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3381.522,"endTime":3383.442,"body":"useful, we're going to figure out"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3383.472,"endTime":3386.112,"body":"this is why we're doing it, and at"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3383.472,"endTime":3386.112,"body":"the end of this period we're going to"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3386.112,"endTime":3389.502,"body":"feedback to you as to what we've learned"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3386.112,"endTime":3389.502,"body":"and what we need to do differently."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3389.852,"endTime":3393.462,"body":"And that's where I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3389.852,"endTime":3393.462,"body":"come back to that notion of covert"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3393.462,"endTime":3396.542,"body":"monitoring, those monitoring measures"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3393.462,"endTime":3396.542,"body":"which they don't encumber the athlete"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3396.542,"endTime":3399.662,"body":"per se, and obviously they present"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3396.542,"endTime":3399.662,"body":"more of an opportunity than others"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3399.692,"endTime":3401.432,"body":"potentially to do that trial and error."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3402.122,"endTime":3403.322,"body":"And you talked about periodisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3403.382,"endTime":3406.042,"body":"I just was thinking it's almost"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3403.382,"endTime":3406.042,"body":"like an opportunity for monitoring"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3406.042,"endTime":3407.362,"body":"periodisation as well, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3407.362,"endTime":3411.802,"body":"It's almost the same as the training,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3407.362,"endTime":3411.802,"body":"so interesting in and of itself."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3412.372,"endTime":3416.062,"body":"Now I know we've got to let you go, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3412.372,"endTime":3416.062,"body":"I do want to talk a bit about the future."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3416.112,"endTime":3417.882,"body":"How will this space look in the future?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3417.972,"endTime":3421.482,"body":"And let's put a time limit on it,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3417.972,"endTime":3421.482,"body":"let's say 10, 20 years from now."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3421.482,"endTime":3426.322,"body":"We know it's, it's moving pretty quick,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3421.482,"endTime":3426.322,"body":"I think the startup, the sports startup"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3426.322,"endTime":3428.242,"body":"scene, is a big reason for this."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3428.242,"endTime":3432.272,"body":"There's a lot of companies all over"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3428.242,"endTime":3432.272,"body":"Europe or the US, and probably even"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3432.272,"endTime":3436.382,"body":"here in Australia, that are doing a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3432.272,"endTime":3436.382,"body":"lot of work on monitoring and some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3436.382,"endTime":3440.012,"body":"of them will be successful I'm sure,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3436.382,"endTime":3440.012,"body":"but what's going to be the big change"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3440.012,"endTime":3443.552,"body":"that you see across sports, say in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3440.012,"endTime":3443.552,"body":"10, 20 years time, in monitoring?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3443.812,"endTime":3445.522,"body":"Well, as we talked"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3443.812,"endTime":3445.522,"body":"about earlier, there's going"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3445.522,"endTime":3446.572,"body":"to be more options out there."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3446.632,"endTime":3449.212,"body":"There's going to be more"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3446.632,"endTime":3449.212,"body":"commercial organisations doing it."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3449.722,"endTime":3453.502,"body":"There's going to be, I suppose,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3449.722,"endTime":3453.502,"body":"more claims about what it can do."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3454.132,"endTime":3457.882,"body":"The end user practitioner, the athlete,"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3454.132,"endTime":3457.882,"body":"is going to be more savvy about this."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3457.882,"endTime":3460.522,"body":"They're going to have to be more"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3457.882,"endTime":3460.522,"body":"savvy in identifying what is"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3460.522,"endTime":3462.352,"body":"useful for them and make choices."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3463.012,"endTime":3468.352,"body":"I think in terms of analysis, no one"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3463.012,"endTime":3468.352,"body":"sport is ever going to have enough"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3468.682,"endTime":3473.732,"body":"data points to really infer much, and"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3468.682,"endTime":3473.732,"body":"I think we're seeing some organisations"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3473.732,"endTime":3479.302,"body":"already where they're de-anonymising"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3473.732,"endTime":3479.302,"body":"data and collating it to see what"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3479.302,"endTime":3480.712,"body":"insights we can gain from that."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3481.262,"endTime":3485.312,"body":"I think it's one where institutes"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3481.262,"endTime":3485.312,"body":"of sport are going to have to look"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3485.312,"endTime":3489.502,"body":"at, okay, are we comfortable sharing"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3485.312,"endTime":3489.502,"body":"our data with this organisation?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3489.602,"endTime":3492.962,"body":"And how is that going to be used when"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3489.602,"endTime":3492.962,"body":"potentially our major competitors"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3492.962,"endTime":3495.152,"body":"could be using that data as well?"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3495.182,"endTime":3499.437,"body":"So are the insights that we're going"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3495.182,"endTime":3499.437,"body":"to gain from this worth the risk of"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3499.917,"endTime":3503.607,"body":"sharing that competition IP, because"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3499.917,"endTime":3503.607,"body":"if we look like some of our smaller"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3503.607,"endTime":3507.387,"body":"sports, where there may only have six"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3503.607,"endTime":3507.387,"body":"athletes on program, it's going to take"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3507.387,"endTime":3510.987,"body":"you years and years and years to learn"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3507.387,"endTime":3510.987,"body":"a lot about them from a monitoring point"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3510.987,"endTime":3512.547,"body":"of view or a performance point of view."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3513.007,"endTime":3516.757,"body":"Even in our bigger sports where"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3513.007,"endTime":3516.757,"body":"they might have 40 or 50 athletes"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3516.757,"endTime":3519.727,"body":"on scholarship, I mean, you know"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3516.757,"endTime":3519.727,"body":"statistics better than me, Sam."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3520.127,"endTime":3522.497,"body":"That's not a lot of athletes"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3520.127,"endTime":3522.497,"body":"to gather insights on."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3523.007,"endTime":3528.087,"body":"And so I think you're looking at how we"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3523.007,"endTime":3528.087,"body":"can collaborate with other organisations"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3528.107,"endTime":3533.057,"body":"to learn, but still protect our own"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3528.107,"endTime":3533.057,"body":"IP and our own performance advantage."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3533.057,"endTime":3536.057,"body":"It's going to be challenges"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3533.057,"endTime":3536.057,"body":"for institutes to reconcile"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3536.057,"endTime":3537.997,"body":"against, and professionals too."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3538.277,"endTime":3539.177,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3539.197,"endTime":3539.827,"body":"I would agree with that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3539.877,"endTime":3543.417,"body":"I know there are pockets of work being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3539.877,"endTime":3543.417,"body":"done around the world on that topic, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3543.477,"endTime":3546.327,"body":"we're a little bit late to the party, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3543.477,"endTime":3546.327,"body":"think, as an industry I would imagine."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3546.807,"endTime":3549.207,"body":"Not that we're on our own in that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3546.807,"endTime":3549.207,"body":"space, but yeah, I think it's caught"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3549.207,"endTime":3551.847,"body":"a lot of industries off guard and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3549.207,"endTime":3551.847,"body":"definitely sport's one of them."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3553.042,"endTime":3555.502,"body":"With that in mind, Steve McCaig,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3553.042,"endTime":3555.502,"body":"thank you so much for joining us on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3555.502,"endTime":3556.642,"body":"the show, it was a real pleasure."},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3557.042,"endTime":3565.302,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Steve McCaig","startTime":3557.042,"endTime":3565.302,"body":"cheers, thanks a lot, Sam."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3565.432,"endTime":3567.662,"body":"And now, some final"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3565.432,"endTime":3567.662,"body":"thoughts from me on today's question."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3568.242,"endTime":3572.002,"body":"As with so many aspects of sport,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3568.242,"endTime":3572.002,"body":"athlete tracking and monitoring"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3572.002,"endTime":3576.202,"body":"continues to be somewhat of a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3572.002,"endTime":3576.202,"body":"runaway train, moving more quickly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3576.202,"endTime":3577.822,"body":"than stakeholders can keep up with."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3578.332,"endTime":3582.112,"body":"There's a clear need to pause and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3578.332,"endTime":3582.112,"body":"reflect on the actual purpose of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3582.112,"endTime":3583.382,"body":"the information we're collecting."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3583.847,"endTime":3587.597,"body":"Is the data going to help coaches and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3583.847,"endTime":3587.597,"body":"practitioners deliver the best possible"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3587.597,"endTime":3589.967,"body":"service and duty of care to the athlete?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3590.237,"endTime":3592.017,"body":"How does it serve our bottom line?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3592.437,"endTime":3596.31,"body":"Sure, more data can help to make"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3592.437,"endTime":3596.31,"body":"a high-performance program look"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3596.34,"endTime":3599.91,"body":"leading or sophisticated, but its"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3596.34,"endTime":3599.91,"body":"intended use needs to be clearly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3599.91,"endTime":3601.89,"body":"articulated before being rolled out."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3602.13,"endTime":3606.69,"body":"Further to that, it's underlying validity"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3602.13,"endTime":3606.69,"body":"should be established - old news, I know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3606.69,"endTime":3608.67,"body":"but seemingly still bears repeating."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3609.18,"endTime":3611.88,"body":"As the commercial battle heats"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3609.18,"endTime":3611.88,"body":"up for companies offering new and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3611.88,"endTime":3615.9,"body":"improved forms of tracking and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3611.88,"endTime":3615.9,"body":"monitoring, so too will questions"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3615.9,"endTime":3618.45,"body":"of quality, privacy and ownership."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3619.02,"endTime":3622.95,"body":"There's no doubting that new tools such"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3619.02,"endTime":3622.95,"body":"as computer vision have the potential to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3622.95,"endTime":3627.63,"body":"describe athletes actions in currently"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3622.95,"endTime":3627.63,"body":"unrivaled detail, however, the inner"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3627.63,"endTime":3631.74,"body":"workings or the intent behind why and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3627.63,"endTime":3631.74,"body":"when athletes behave the way they do,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3632.28,"endTime":3637.44,"body":"remains largely phenomena described"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3632.28,"endTime":3637.44,"body":"or judged by manual and human means."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3637.98,"endTime":3640.92,"body":"It does make one wonder whether"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3637.98,"endTime":3640.92,"body":"there is still a place for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3640.92,"endTime":3642.69,"body":"simply the humble conversation?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3643.53,"endTime":3646.5,"body":"So with all of that in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3643.53,"endTime":3646.5,"body":"mind, how much is too much?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3646.86,"endTime":3650.82,"body":"I'm optimistic that sports science"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3646.86,"endTime":3650.82,"body":"can be key in answering this question"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3650.82,"endTime":3652.53,"body":"both now and into the future."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3652.95,"endTime":3657.125,"body":"Whether conceptual models being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3652.95,"endTime":3657.125,"body":"implemented to recogni se saturation"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3657.143,"endTime":3660.863,"body":"points in information collection,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3657.143,"endTime":3660.863,"body":"to checking overall data quality,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3661.223,"endTime":3665.303,"body":"in this area as much as any, sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3661.223,"endTime":3665.303,"body":"science needs to be leading the way."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3665.723,"endTime":3669.593,"body":"And of course, if all else fails,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3665.723,"endTime":3669.593,"body":"we could always ask the athlete."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3670.133,"endTime":3673.343,"body":"I'm Sam Robertson, and this"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3670.133,"endTime":3673.343,"body":"has been One Track Mind,"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3675.163,"endTime":3679.123,"body":"One Track Mind is brought"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3675.163,"endTime":3679.123,"body":"to you by Track and Victoria University."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3679.513,"endTime":3682.783,"body":"Our host is Professor Sam"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3679.513,"endTime":3682.783,"body":"Robertson and our producer is"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3682.783,"endTime":3684.403,"body":"Lara Chan-Baker - that's me!"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3684.853,"endTime":3688.963,"body":"If you care about these issues, as"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3684.853,"endTime":3688.963,"body":"much as we do, please support us by"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3688.963,"endTime":3692.983,"body":"subscribing, leaving a review on iTunes,"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3688.963,"endTime":3692.983,"body":"and recommending the show to a friend."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3693.283,"endTime":3696.023,"body":"It only takes a minute, but"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3693.283,"endTime":3696.023,"body":"it makes all the difference."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3696.368,"endTime":3699.448,"body":"If you want more where this"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3696.368,"endTime":3699.448,"body":"came from, follow us on Twitter"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3699.508,"endTime":3705.338,"body":"@trackvu, on Instagram @track.vu,"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3699.508,"endTime":3705.338,"body":"or just head to track vu.com."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3705.908,"endTime":3708.218,"body":"While you're there, why not"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3705.908,"endTime":3708.218,"body":"sign up for our newsletter?"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3708.608,"endTime":3712.178,"body":"It's a regular dose of sports science"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3708.608,"endTime":3712.178,"body":"insights from our leading team of"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3712.178,"endTime":3715.598,"body":"researchers, with links to further"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3712.178,"endTime":3715.598,"body":"reading on each episode topic."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3716.078,"endTime":3718.448,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3716.078,"endTime":3718.448,"body":"listening to One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":3718.718,"endTime":3719.888,"body":"We will see you soon."}]}