{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":0.51,"endTime":3.78,"body":"Mention the term sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":0.51,"endTime":3.78,"body":"analytics and the mind of the typical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3.78,"endTime":7.86,"body":"person on the street will likely go"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3.78,"endTime":7.86,"body":"straight to Moneyball, much to the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":7.86,"endTime":9.69,"body":"annoyance of analysts everywhere."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":10.49,"endTime":13.95,"body":"Although there's no harm in being"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":10.49,"endTime":13.95,"body":"likened to Brad Pitt, or maybe even"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":13.95,"endTime":18.12,"body":"Jonah hill, the realm of sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":13.95,"endTime":18.12,"body":"analytics has grown enormously since"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":18.12,"endTime":20.25,"body":"the book and subsequent movie's release."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":20.67,"endTime":23.88,"body":"Despite still being one of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":20.67,"endTime":23.88,"body":"industry's newest professions, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":23.88,"endTime":28.146,"body":"become far more than just finding"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":23.88,"endTime":28.146,"body":"undervalued players for clubs to sign."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":28.596,"endTime":32.646,"body":"In fact, it's progressed so much that it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":28.596,"endTime":32.646,"body":"now entirely commonplace in most sports,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":32.946,"endTime":34.736,"body":"and thoroughly ingrained in others."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":34.986,"endTime":38.821,"body":"The increased quantification of sport,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":34.986,"endTime":38.821,"body":"the typically broad skill sets of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":38.821,"endTime":42.421,"body":"analysts, and the potential to make"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":38.821,"endTime":42.421,"body":"radical gains are just some of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":42.421,"endTime":44.821,"body":"reasons behind its growth in popularity."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":45.121,"endTime":47.911,"body":"You could say that the role of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":45.121,"endTime":47.911,"body":"sports analyst is one of the most"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":47.911,"endTime":52.261,"body":"exciting professions in all of sport,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":47.911,"endTime":52.261,"body":"but it hasn't all been smooth sailing."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":52.711,"endTime":56.491,"body":"One look at job ads for these positions"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":52.711,"endTime":56.491,"body":"tells you there can sometimes be a lack"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":56.491,"endTime":60.691,"body":"of understanding about what the role"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":56.491,"endTime":60.691,"body":"actually is, and there can often be a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":60.691,"endTime":64.932,"body":"disconnect between the outputs of analysts"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":60.691,"endTime":64.932,"body":"and organi sational decision makers."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":65.382,"endTime":68.652,"body":"It's also possible that one of sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":65.382,"endTime":68.652,"body":"analytics' greatest strengths, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":68.652,"endTime":72.882,"body":"absence of a single educational or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":68.652,"endTime":72.882,"body":"accreditation pathway, could also"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":72.882,"endTime":74.502,"body":"be one of its potential threats."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":75.132,"endTime":77.022,"body":"So is sports analytics here to stay?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":77.382,"endTime":79.932,"body":"It certainly it looks like"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":77.382,"endTime":79.932,"body":"that's the case, but the next"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":79.932,"endTime":81.252,"body":"few years will be critical."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":81.582,"endTime":83.352,"body":"How will its impact be evaluated?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":83.892,"endTime":86.132,"body":"Where indeed will it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":83.892,"endTime":86.132,"body":"actually have this impact?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":86.642,"endTime":89.732,"body":"And above all else, what will"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":86.642,"endTime":89.732,"body":"it need to address in order"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":89.732,"endTime":91.802,"body":"to remain valued and viable?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":92.222,"endTime":95.324,"body":"I'm Sam Robertson and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":92.222,"endTime":95.324,"body":"this is One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":95.324,"endTime":101.721,"body":"Hello and welcome to One Track Mind - a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":95.324,"endTime":101.721,"body":"podcast about the real issues, forces and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":101.721,"endTime":104.28,"body":"innovations, shaping the future of sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":104.28,"endTime":108.544,"body":"On today's episode, we're asking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":104.28,"endTime":108.544,"body":"'What's next in sports analytics?'"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":108.544,"endTime":111.103,"body":"My first guest is Sarah Rudd."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":111.103,"endTime":115.794,"body":"Sarah is the former Director of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":111.103,"endTime":115.794,"body":"Analytics at Arsenal Football Club"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":115.794,"endTime":121.338,"body":"and has spent over a decade working"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":115.794,"endTime":121.338,"body":"in the field of football analytics."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":121.338,"endTime":126.881,"body":"She was the Vice President of Software"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":121.338,"endTime":126.881,"body":"and Analytics at StatDNA before they"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":126.881,"endTime":131.146,"body":"were acquired by Arsenal and became"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":126.881,"endTime":131.146,"body":"their in-house analytics department."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":131.146,"endTime":136.69,"body":"Prior to working in the football industry,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":131.146,"endTime":136.69,"body":"Sarah spent several years working at"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":136.69,"endTime":138.822,"body":"Microsoft and other technology companies."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":138.822,"endTime":143.513,"body":"She holds a Bachelor's degree from"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":138.822,"endTime":143.513,"body":"Columbia University and an MBA"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":143.513,"endTime":145.645,"body":"from the University of Washington."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":145.645,"endTime":148.191,"body":"Sarah, thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":148.581,"endTime":149.151,"body":"Yeah, my pleasure."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":149.151,"endTime":149.901,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":150.368,"endTime":153.078,"body":"Now, this is a really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":150.368,"endTime":153.078,"body":"broad topic, like a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":153.078,"endTime":154.828,"body":"topics that we cover on the show."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":155.178,"endTime":158.878,"body":"I am constantly astounded as I go"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":155.178,"endTime":158.878,"body":"around the world about how people"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":158.878,"endTime":162.027,"body":"actually define the term ' sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":158.878,"endTime":162.027,"body":"analytics' and indeed a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":162.027,"endTime":165.417,"body":"people, particularly in your country,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":162.027,"endTime":165.417,"body":"that don't actually like that term."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":165.987,"endTime":170.397,"body":"So perhaps you might want to comment on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":165.987,"endTime":170.397,"body":"that, but equally importantly, how do you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":170.397,"endTime":174.465,"body":"define it, but also how do you delimit"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":170.397,"endTime":174.465,"body":"it in terms of maybe what it normally"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":174.465,"endTime":178.035,"body":"entails in a football club, what kind"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":174.465,"endTime":178.035,"body":"of disciplines or sub-disciplines are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":178.035,"endTime":181.605,"body":"involved in it, what are the activities"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":178.035,"endTime":181.605,"body":"and roles that are important in this area?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":182.055,"endTime":184.665,"body":"There's a little bit in that question,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":182.055,"endTime":184.665,"body":"I know, but sports analytics, what does"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":184.665,"endTime":186.525,"body":"that mean to you when you hear that term?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":187.205,"endTime":190.175,"body":"Yeah, I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":187.205,"endTime":190.175,"body":"something I think I've thought a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":190.175,"endTime":194.825,"body":"about over my career and I still kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":190.175,"endTime":194.825,"body":"of struggle to define it, but what I'm"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":194.825,"endTime":200.795,"body":"starting to kind of settle into is really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":194.825,"endTime":200.795,"body":"sports analytics is taking a sporting"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":200.795,"endTime":207.515,"body":"match or event and trying to break it down"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":200.795,"endTime":207.515,"body":"into discretised or small little chunks so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":207.515,"endTime":213.215,"body":"that you can analyse it and come up with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":207.515,"endTime":213.215,"body":"something that will help your organisation"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":213.385,"endTime":214.795,"body":"come to better decision-making."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":215.275,"endTime":219.925,"body":"And so what I kind of mean by that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":215.275,"endTime":219.925,"body":"is it could be a bunch of things."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":219.925,"endTime":224.755,"body":"It could be tagging a match and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":219.925,"endTime":224.755,"body":"saying like, this is a pass, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":224.755,"endTime":228.205,"body":"a shot, you know, so just breaking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":224.755,"endTime":228.205,"body":"it down into those little events."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":228.535,"endTime":229.885,"body":"It could be something broader."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":229.885,"endTime":234.265,"body":"It could be saying from this point in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":229.885,"endTime":234.265,"body":"time to this point in time we're in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":234.265,"endTime":238.455,"body":"this phase of play and so I want to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":234.265,"endTime":238.455,"body":"able to add that context to my analysis,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":238.785,"endTime":242.172,"body":"but really I think at the crux of it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":238.785,"endTime":242.172,"body":"it's just trying to break things down"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":242.202,"endTime":248.412,"body":"into small digestible components that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":242.202,"endTime":248.412,"body":"will lend themselves to a more, I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":248.412,"endTime":253.512,"body":"want to say objective analysis, but"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":248.412,"endTime":253.512,"body":"that's kind of what we, I wouldn't say"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":253.512,"endTime":258.702,"body":"fantasise, but maybe dream that we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":253.512,"endTime":258.702,"body":"doing is being objective about things."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":258.732,"endTime":262.482,"body":"I mean, there's certainly a ton of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":258.732,"endTime":262.482,"body":"subjectivity in terms of what we do."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":263.052,"endTime":264.732,"body":"So in terms of like how I delimit it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":265.402,"endTime":270.562,"body":"Within a football club, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":265.402,"endTime":270.562,"body":"there's probably four main verticals"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":270.562,"endTime":274.852,"body":"or pillars that we would operate"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":270.562,"endTime":274.852,"body":"in, in terms of sports analytics."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":274.852,"endTime":281.437,"body":"So you'd have first team analytics"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":274.852,"endTime":281.437,"body":"where you're really trying to focus"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":281.437,"endTime":285.547,"body":"on the actual on-field performance"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":281.437,"endTime":285.547,"body":"of the team, but then you have youth"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":285.547,"endTime":291.637,"body":"development, so the on-pitch performance"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":285.547,"endTime":291.637,"body":"of the academy teams, but also player"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":291.637,"endTime":295.867,"body":"progression and player development, are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":291.637,"endTime":295.867,"body":"they really getting what they need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":295.867,"endTime":297.487,"body":"become the best athlete that they can."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":297.727,"endTime":301.747,"body":"Then you have recruitmen, so being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":297.727,"endTime":301.747,"body":"able to bring in the best players"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":301.747,"endTime":306.277,"body":"into your club, maybe optimise the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":301.747,"endTime":306.277,"body":"sale of players leaving your club."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":306.637,"endTime":308.257,"body":"And then lastly you have sports science."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":308.557,"endTime":312.377,"body":"And so, I think a lot of times in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":308.557,"endTime":312.377,"body":"the club you might have one person"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":312.377,"endTime":316.097,"body":"responsible for those, you might have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":312.377,"endTime":316.097,"body":"multiple people responsible for those,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":316.097,"endTime":320.687,"body":"but they're very distinct areas that there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":316.097,"endTime":320.687,"body":"is some overlap and you would obviously"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":320.687,"endTime":325.382,"body":"hope that they're working together,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":320.687,"endTime":325.382,"body":"but they are pretty separate verticals."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":325.652,"endTime":329.972,"body":"And now within that, you can kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":325.652,"endTime":329.972,"body":"break down those roles a little bit"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":329.972,"endTime":335.882,"body":"more and say, well, I'm responsible for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":329.972,"endTime":335.882,"body":"first team analysis, but in order to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":335.972,"endTime":339.842,"body":"accomplish that, I need to know about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":335.972,"endTime":339.842,"body":"data engineering, I need to be a data"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":339.842,"endTime":345.212,"body":"scientist, I need to know about data"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":339.842,"endTime":345.212,"body":"visualisation, be a front end engineer."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":345.212,"endTime":348.212,"body":"And again, like, it could be one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":345.212,"endTime":348.212,"body":"person doing it, it could be multiple"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":348.212,"endTime":352.137,"body":"people doing it, but the way that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":348.212,"endTime":352.137,"body":"I see everything is you have these"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":352.187,"endTime":355.277,"body":"verticals and then you have the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":352.187,"endTime":355.277,"body":"skillset or the roles that kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":355.277,"endTime":358.907,"body":"support that and enable you to actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":355.277,"endTime":358.907,"body":"operate within those verticals."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":359.847,"endTime":362.257,"body":"Listening to you describe"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":359.847,"endTime":362.257,"body":"that, and I'm sure this isn't lost"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":362.257,"endTime":366.547,"body":"on you, that sounds like in order to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":362.257,"endTime":366.547,"body":"fulfill that, if that indeed was one"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":366.547,"endTime":369.88,"body":"person at an organisation, they'd need"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":366.547,"endTime":369.88,"body":"to be an extremely skilled person."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":370.51,"endTime":374.05,"body":"And I think my mind is turning to some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":370.51,"endTime":374.05,"body":"of the job advertisements that we see"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":374.05,"endTime":379.369,"body":"online from clubs, offering these paltry"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":374.05,"endTime":379.369,"body":"salaries for people that can understand"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":379.369,"endTime":382.579,"body":"the game better than anyone, and be"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":379.369,"endTime":382.579,"body":"across those four pillars that you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":382.579,"endTime":386.539,"body":"just mentioned there, have engineering"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":382.579,"endTime":386.539,"body":"skills, analytic skills, analytical"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":386.539,"endTime":390.289,"body":"skills in terms of model development,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":386.539,"endTime":390.289,"body":"and of course we know that that's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":390.289,"endTime":391.729,"body":"pretty difficult skillset to have."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":392.299,"endTime":395.809,"body":"And that really leads me to something"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":392.299,"endTime":395.809,"body":"I wanted to ask you off the back of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":395.839,"endTime":400.319,"body":"your response there, which is, that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":395.839,"endTime":400.319,"body":"clarity that some organisations don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":400.319,"endTime":402.659,"body":"have about what analytics actually is."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":402.887,"endTime":406.329,"body":"And I think that's partly inherent in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":402.887,"endTime":406.329,"body":"your response there, that it is so broad,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":406.539,"endTime":409.659,"body":"and it could depend completely on how"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":406.539,"endTime":409.659,"body":"many people are in the organisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":410.199,"endTime":413.679,"body":"Again, obviously you'd prefer to have"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":410.199,"endTime":413.679,"body":"someone responsible for data engineering,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":413.799,"endTime":416.819,"body":"I'm sure, rather than some of the other"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":413.799,"endTime":416.819,"body":"tasks that you just mentioned there, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":416.819,"endTime":420.689,"body":"it's not always possible financially, or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":416.819,"endTime":420.689,"body":"they might want to invest in that area."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":421.177,"endTime":424.387,"body":"Do you think that breadth and the fact"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":421.177,"endTime":424.387,"body":"that we really are still in the early"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":424.387,"endTime":428.077,"body":"stages of sports analytics compared"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":424.387,"endTime":428.077,"body":"to, say, coaching or other areas,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":428.172,"endTime":431.532,"body":"does that broadness or that breadth"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":428.172,"endTime":431.532,"body":"of that definition kind of actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":431.532,"endTime":435.082,"body":"hurt its ability to be adopted in some"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":431.532,"endTime":435.082,"body":"organisations or is it just a fact that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":435.102,"endTime":437.122,"body":"it's at an early stage of its development?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":437.468,"endTime":439.118,"body":"Well, it can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":437.468,"endTime":439.118,"body":"be a double-edged sword."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":439.118,"endTime":444.428,"body":"So on the one hand, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":439.118,"endTime":444.428,"body":"it is so broad, it does give"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":444.428,"endTime":448.608,"body":"individuals or the club an"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":444.428,"endTime":448.608,"body":"opportunity to really be successful."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":448.608,"endTime":453.018,"body":"So in order to be successful, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":448.608,"endTime":453.018,"body":"just need one person within the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":453.018,"endTime":457.848,"body":"organization to say, yes, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":453.018,"endTime":457.848,"body":"going to be essential to how I operate,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":457.848,"endTime":459.438,"body":"how I'm going to make decisions."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":459.438,"endTime":461.568,"body":"Like, I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":459.438,"endTime":461.568,"body":"fully invested in this."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":461.568,"endTime":467.328,"body":"And so of those four pillars, if you just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":461.568,"endTime":467.328,"body":"have one, then you can have great impact."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":467.328,"endTime":471.918,"body":"Whereas if it was like a little"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":467.328,"endTime":471.918,"body":"bit more narrowly defined, you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":471.918,"endTime":475.668,"body":"might be kind of bottlenecked on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":471.918,"endTime":475.668,"body":"one individual or two individuals."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":475.668,"endTime":480.198,"body":"So in that sense, I think it's a little"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":475.668,"endTime":480.198,"body":"bit advantageous where there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":480.228,"endTime":482.808,"body":"kind of surface area to be successful."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":483.148,"endTime":487.488,"body":"But I think, exactly as you said, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":483.148,"endTime":487.488,"body":"a lot of clubs have adverts for one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":487.488,"endTime":493.128,"body":"person to do it, they might not have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":487.488,"endTime":493.128,"body":"realistic expectations around what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":493.128,"endTime":495.498,"body":"exactly they need to be successful."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":495.498,"endTime":499.968,"body":"And so they think like, I'll just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":495.498,"endTime":499.968,"body":"hire this person, like, I see this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":499.968,"endTime":503.058,"body":"stuff on Twitter, it looks easy,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":499.968,"endTime":503.058,"body":"one person can come in and just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":503.718,"endTime":505.368,"body":"absolutely revolutionise things."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":505.932,"endTime":507.492,"body":"I don't think that's the case."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":507.492,"endTime":509.112,"body":"I think it's really quite difficult."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":509.112,"endTime":512.742,"body":"And especially if the club has"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":509.112,"endTime":512.742,"body":"expectations that you'll work"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":512.742,"endTime":514.302,"body":"across all four of those pillars."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":514.332,"endTime":516.732,"body":"I mean, that's just too much"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":514.332,"endTime":516.732,"body":"work for one individual."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":516.732,"endTime":520.632,"body":"So I think if you're going to only"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":516.732,"endTime":520.632,"body":"hire one individual, you need to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":520.632,"endTime":524.802,"body":"really focused around what you would"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":520.632,"endTime":524.802,"body":"want them to be responsible for."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":525.412,"endTime":530.832,"body":"You know, the kind of flip side, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":525.412,"endTime":530.832,"body":"is that these days, there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":531.032,"endTime":534.792,"body":"off-the-shelf products that can kind"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":531.032,"endTime":534.792,"body":"of help out with some of these areas."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":534.792,"endTime":540.202,"body":"So a lot of the data providers are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":534.792,"endTime":540.202,"body":"helping out in terms of making their"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":540.202,"endTime":544.612,"body":"data as accessible as possible, so you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":540.202,"endTime":544.612,"body":"can hold off on maybe hiring a data"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":544.612,"endTime":548.797,"body":"engineer for a little while until you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":544.612,"endTime":548.797,"body":"fully understand what you would need."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":548.797,"endTime":553.717,"body":"But more often than not, what I see is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":548.797,"endTime":553.717,"body":"someone who's good in one area but not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":553.717,"endTime":557.377,"body":"the other, trying to make things work."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":557.437,"endTime":561.787,"body":"And then what happens is they just get"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":557.437,"endTime":561.787,"body":"what we would call technical debt, where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":562.087,"endTime":565.957,"body":"things are just kind of cobbled together"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":562.087,"endTime":565.957,"body":"and like, it works, but you're just hoping"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":565.957,"endTime":569.917,"body":"that it survives until the off season"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":565.957,"endTime":569.917,"body":"and then you can kind of like fix it,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":569.917,"endTime":574.117,"body":"but that's not your area of expertise and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":569.917,"endTime":574.117,"body":"so you don't really know how to fix it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":574.117,"endTime":579.487,"body":"So I think then what ends up happening"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":574.117,"endTime":579.487,"body":"is like, the stakeholders are like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":579.487,"endTime":581.047,"body":"whoa, what are we paying this guy for?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":581.047,"endTime":583.117,"body":"Like, everything's broken all the time."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":583.127,"endTime":587.737,"body":"And it's just not a, I think,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":583.127,"endTime":587.737,"body":"a successful way to operate."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":588.237,"endTime":591.892,"body":"Yeah and ideally, I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":588.237,"endTime":591.892,"body":"just thinking, you'd want that person"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":591.892,"endTime":595.88,"body":"to be able to play the long game in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":591.892,"endTime":595.88,"body":"terms of getting some early wins in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":595.88,"endTime":599.404,"body":"and developing something that's really"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":595.88,"endTime":599.404,"body":"user-friendly and practically applied"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":599.404,"endTime":602.914,"body":"by the coach or coaching team or the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":599.404,"endTime":602.914,"body":"recruitment department, as you mentioned."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":603.324,"endTime":606.434,"body":"But again, not being so inefficient that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":603.324,"endTime":606.434,"body":"they take their eye off the engineering"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":606.434,"endTime":609.434,"body":"piece and again, as you said, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":606.434,"endTime":609.434,"body":"off-the-shelf products can help with that,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":609.464,"endTime":613.784,"body":"but it really requires a mid-to-longer"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":609.464,"endTime":613.784,"body":"term vision from the club, probably more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":613.784,"endTime":617.144,"body":"so than many other areas, and we know that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":613.784,"endTime":617.144,"body":"we don't always get that, unfortunately."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":617.531,"endTime":621.821,"body":"A really basic question that I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":617.531,"endTime":621.821,"body":"stems off all this is why sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":621.821,"endTime":625.511,"body":"analytics is important, full stop, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":621.821,"endTime":625.511,"body":"why it's even come about, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":625.577,"endTime":628.337,"body":"Tied into that is where it can"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":625.577,"endTime":628.337,"body":"actually have its greatest impact?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":628.547,"endTime":629.897,"body":"You mentioned a couple of things already."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":630.617,"endTime":634.967,"body":"And in particular, why I want to pick up"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":630.617,"endTime":634.967,"body":"on the objectivity comment that you made,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":635.357,"endTime":639.137,"body":"because I do agree with that, but as you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":635.357,"endTime":639.137,"body":"kind of hinted at it is there's kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":639.497,"endTime":641.897,"body":"elements or shades of objectivity as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":641.922,"endTime":644.742,"body":"It's almost being more objective"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":641.922,"endTime":644.742,"body":"than what's there now, that's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":644.742,"endTime":645.792,"body":"sometimes the battle we've got."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":646.272,"endTime":649.032,"body":"But I think the other one as well that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":646.272,"endTime":649.032,"body":"you mentioned is across those pillars"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":649.032,"endTime":652.972,"body":"and some of the difficulties that I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":649.032,"endTime":652.972,"body":"see is having a common language for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":652.972,"endTime":655.822,"body":"those elements, all those pillars,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":652.972,"endTime":655.822,"body":"to be able to speak together."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":655.822,"endTime":658.042,"body":"And I think sports analytics"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":655.822,"endTime":658.042,"body":"can actually provide that in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":658.042,"endTime":659.602,"body":"some cases, if it's done well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":660.152,"endTime":663.372,"body":"Unfortunately, some organisations you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":660.152,"endTime":663.372,"body":"see a recruitment department actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":663.872,"endTime":668.187,"body":"speak or evaluate players or teams in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":663.872,"endTime":668.187,"body":"different language to  the coaching"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":668.187,"endTime":669.627,"body":"department in that same organisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":669.627,"endTime":671.037,"body":"And that obviously that's a real problem."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":671.637,"endTime":675.357,"body":"But those two areas, you know, that common"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":671.637,"endTime":675.357,"body":"language and providing more objectivity,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":675.357,"endTime":676.497,"body":"they're two that come to mind."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":677.037,"endTime":679.237,"body":"Do you think that's where it can"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":677.037,"endTime":679.237,"body":"have its greatest impact or are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":679.237,"endTime":680.607,"body":"there other things that you look for?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":681.197,"endTime":686.057,"body":"Yeah, I think humans are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":681.197,"endTime":686.057,"body":"inherently bad at making decisions and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":686.057,"endTime":690.747,"body":"I think anybody who's worked in sports"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":686.057,"endTime":690.747,"body":"will say people within sports are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":690.747,"endTime":693.237,"body":"particularly bad at making decisions."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":693.547,"endTime":695.137,"body":"Honestly, there's a lot at stake."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":695.287,"endTime":698.797,"body":"The pressure is high and you"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":695.287,"endTime":698.797,"body":"want to oftentimes do what you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":698.797,"endTime":701.977,"body":"most comfortable with, which is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":698.797,"endTime":701.977,"body":"not necessarily the best thing."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":701.977,"endTime":706.567,"body":"And so I think what sports analytics can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":701.977,"endTime":706.567,"body":"help with is to try to bring some of that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":706.567,"endTime":712.327,"body":"air of objectivity to things, but really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":706.567,"endTime":712.327,"body":"bring in a fresh perspective and say like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":712.657,"endTime":718.262,"body":"you might be focusing on this because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":712.657,"endTime":718.262,"body":"it's top of mind, it's recent, but here's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":718.262,"endTime":720.662,"body":"the bigger picture, let's look at that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":720.662,"endTime":727.532,"body":"So I think recruitment absolutely is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":720.662,"endTime":727.532,"body":"a huge area of impact where those are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":727.532,"endTime":730.442,"body":"probably some of the most important"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":727.532,"endTime":730.442,"body":"decisions that a club is going to make."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":730.952,"endTime":736.682,"body":"And some of the ones where I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":730.952,"endTime":736.682,"body":"say it's like easiest, but just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":736.682,"endTime":740.732,"body":"ruling out bad decisions, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":736.682,"endTime":740.732,"body":"is one of the things that sports"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":740.732,"endTime":742.742,"body":"analytics can really help you with."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":742.822,"endTime":746.542,"body":"Talking about having a common language"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":742.822,"endTime":746.542,"body":"between the coaching staff, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":746.542,"endTime":753.902,"body":"that's so important, but also so difficult"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":746.542,"endTime":753.902,"body":"to get right, because particularly in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":754.382,"endTime":758.162,"body":"football clubs where there tends to be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":754.382,"endTime":758.162,"body":"high turnover with coaching staff, your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":758.162,"endTime":761.012,"body":"recruitment department might stay on,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":758.162,"endTime":761.012,"body":"but your coaching staff might change."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":761.972,"endTime":765.092,"body":"And so now you kind of have to work"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":761.972,"endTime":765.092,"body":"through that again, but it's really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":765.092,"endTime":769.9,"body":"important that the club has that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":765.092,"endTime":769.9,"body":"long-term vision to say, like, this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":769.9,"endTime":773.2,"body":"is how we're going to do things and,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":769.9,"endTime":773.2,"body":"you know, we need to work together to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":773.2,"endTime":778.81,"body":"kind of merge what our language is and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":773.2,"endTime":778.81,"body":"make sure that that's all connected."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":779.697,"endTime":782.007,"body":"Yeah, as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":779.697,"endTime":782.007,"body":"it comes back to that long game."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":782.007,"endTime":785.727,"body":"If the club has, you know, obviously"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":782.007,"endTime":785.727,"body":"it's always going to be fluid, but a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":785.727,"endTime":789.387,"body":"somewhat established framework about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":785.727,"endTime":789.387,"body":"how they want to evaluate players that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":789.387,"endTime":790.777,"body":"are coming into their organisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":790.997,"endTime":794.777,"body":"That does allow you to have that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":790.997,"endTime":794.777,"body":"continuity over time, which is obviously"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":794.777,"endTime":796.668,"body":"lost when a coaching department goes out."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":797.155,"endTime":801.205,"body":"You also talked about decision-making"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":797.155,"endTime":801.205,"body":"then and I think often even when I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":801.205,"endTime":804.385,"body":"think a decision maker, or the layperson"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":801.205,"endTime":804.385,"body":"who doesn't know a lot about sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":804.385,"endTime":808.705,"body":"analytics thinks about decision-making,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":804.385,"endTime":808.705,"body":"the inclination is that it's just"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":808.705,"endTime":812.815,"body":"adding objectivity across the board,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":808.705,"endTime":812.815,"body":"it's enhancing little decisions"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":812.845,"endTime":814.735,"body":"by bits and pieces here and there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":814.735,"endTime":818.665,"body":"But you made a great point then, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":814.735,"endTime":818.665,"body":"actually making sure you don't get a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":818.665,"endTime":822.475,"body":"really bad decision made or make the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":818.665,"endTime":822.475,"body":"wrong decision, pick up that player that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":822.776,"endTime":826.076,"body":"there should've been something obvious"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":822.776,"endTime":826.076,"body":"about them that was a red flag that you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":826.076,"endTime":827.906,"body":"didn't bring them into the organisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":828.146,"endTime":832.316,"body":"I think this is a really interesting part"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":828.146,"endTime":832.316,"body":"of sports analytics in terms of not only"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":832.421,"endTime":836.051,"body":"these kind of binary yes or no decisions"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":832.421,"endTime":836.051,"body":"about whether you choose a player or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":836.051,"endTime":840.04,"body":"not, but there's also decisions that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":836.051,"endTime":840.04,"body":"exist on a continuum as well, and I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":840.04,"endTime":841.54,"body":"there's a little nuance in that as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":841.54,"endTime":844.99,"body":"And if you go through those other"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":841.54,"endTime":844.99,"body":"pillars you mentioned, there's probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":845.59,"endTime":849.22,"body":"a whole heap of different outputs, which"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":845.59,"endTime":849.22,"body":"make that whole job of being a sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":849.22,"endTime":850.78,"body":"analyst really, really interesting."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":850.985,"endTime":853.045,"body":"You mentioned sports science"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":850.985,"endTime":853.045,"body":"at the end there, and I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":853.045,"endTime":854.455,"body":"we're starting to see that now."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":854.455,"endTime":858.625,"body":"I had a good discussion in the US when I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":854.455,"endTime":858.625,"body":"was there last, with a lot of people that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":858.625,"endTime":863.451,"body":"have been in sports analytics for a while,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":858.625,"endTime":863.451,"body":"and I'm not sure at that point, this was"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":863.451,"endTime":868.147,"body":"a couple of years ago now, I guess, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":863.451,"endTime":868.147,"body":"there was as much recognition of the value"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":868.147,"endTime":872.047,"body":"they could add to sports science as maybe"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":868.147,"endTime":872.047,"body":"there is even now a couple of years later."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":872.303,"endTime":875.463,"body":"Is that something that you've got stuck"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":872.303,"endTime":875.463,"body":"into a little bit in your work as well?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":875.933,"endTime":880.073,"body":"Yeah, it's something that I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":875.933,"endTime":880.073,"body":"think quite naturally, because in sport"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":880.073,"endTime":884.508,"body":"science you collect a lot of data that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":880.073,"endTime":884.508,"body":"you would want to apply data analysis to."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":885.018,"endTime":890.898,"body":"It's also something that is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":885.018,"endTime":890.898,"body":"difficult, I think, to analyse, because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":891.708,"endTime":897.138,"body":"if you're just looking at, say, like GPS"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":891.708,"endTime":897.138,"body":"data, or maybe the in-game tracking data,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":897.558,"endTime":902.928,"body":"you're missing so much of that context"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":897.558,"endTime":902.928,"body":"around what's happening with the athlete,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":902.958,"endTime":907.428,"body":"what has been their preparation going"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":902.958,"endTime":907.428,"body":"into the match, what are the demands"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":907.428,"endTime":908.928,"body":"of the coach going into that match?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":909.318,"endTime":913.998,"body":"So it's something that we've looked"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":909.318,"endTime":913.998,"body":"into, certainly done I think a few"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":913.998,"endTime":917.508,"body":"bits of work that's been pretty"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":913.998,"endTime":917.508,"body":"interesting, but definitely an area"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":917.508,"endTime":921.378,"body":"I think that's underrated in terms"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":917.508,"endTime":921.378,"body":"of like the difficulty to actually"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":921.378,"endTime":923.358,"body":"produce something pretty useful."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":923.358,"endTime":928.518,"body":"And there's the holy grail of an injury"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":923.358,"endTime":928.518,"body":"prediction model that, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":928.518,"endTime":933.168,"body":"everybody says like, I'll put this in a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":928.518,"endTime":933.168,"body":"neural network or something like that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":933.168,"endTime":937.998,"body":"And then you realise like, oh, I have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":933.168,"endTime":937.998,"body":"about 90 minutes worth of data on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":937.998,"endTime":940.068,"body":"a player who lives 24 hours a day."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":940.158,"endTime":941.898,"body":"Like, not going to happen."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":943.549,"endTime":946.319,"body":"Yeah I can"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":943.549,"endTime":946.319,"body":"only nod and agree with that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":947.099,"endTime":951.379,"body":"You mentioned context there as well,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":947.099,"endTime":951.379,"body":"but it's also the difficult thing with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":951.379,"endTime":954.889,"body":"sports science as opposed to coaching"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":951.379,"endTime":954.889,"body":"or recruitment, those other areas you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":954.889,"endTime":958.676,"body":"mentioned, is they're sometimes, and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":954.889,"endTime":958.676,"body":"alluded to this earlier, they're sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":958.696,"endTime":962.446,"body":"viewing the athlete or viewing the team"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":958.696,"endTime":962.446,"body":"in a completely different lens as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":962.506,"endTime":967.456,"body":"And so even the context that they would"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":962.506,"endTime":967.456,"body":"apply, a sports performance person, to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":967.486,"endTime":970.396,"body":"a certain problem is quite different"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":967.486,"endTime":970.396,"body":"to the way a coach would look at it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":970.667,"endTime":974.297,"body":"So you're then stuck with requiring"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":970.667,"endTime":974.297,"body":"this analyst to have different"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":974.797,"endTime":977.752,"body":"understandings of the mental models of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":974.797,"endTime":977.752,"body":"the individuals that they're dealing with."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":977.969,"endTime":981.639,"body":"All of this points to needing someone"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":977.969,"endTime":981.639,"body":"long-term in an organisation that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":981.659,"endTime":985.796,"body":"has time to get into this, because it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":981.659,"endTime":985.796,"body":"doesn't matter how technically gifted"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":985.796,"endTime":988.886,"body":"they are, they are going to need time to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":985.796,"endTime":988.886,"body":"get across what the organisation wants."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":989.036,"endTime":990.006,"body":"Yep, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":990.256,"endTime":993.166,"body":"So with all this in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":990.256,"endTime":993.166,"body":"mind, I want to ask you about the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":993.166,"endTime":996.556,"body":"current state of sports analytics"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":993.166,"endTime":996.556,"body":"and whether you think it's healthy."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":996.556,"endTime":1000.456,"body":"And I know that's a relative term,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":996.556,"endTime":1000.456,"body":"but you're often described as a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1000.456,"endTime":1003.996,"body":"pioneer in sports analytics, so"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1000.456,"endTime":1003.996,"body":"you've seen it evolve quite a lot."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1004.32,"endTime":1005.67,"body":"Is it getting better or worse?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1005.697,"endTime":1008.414,"body":"and, And also, are some sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1005.697,"endTime":1008.414,"body":"leading the way better than others?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1008.414,"endTime":1010.934,"body":"Your most recent time's been in soccer."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1011.354,"endTime":1012.224,"body":"Is it getting better?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1012.224,"endTime":1016.364,"body":"It seems like it's getting certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1012.224,"endTime":1016.364,"body":"more publicised at least, there's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1016.364,"endTime":1018.914,"body":"more conferences coming up and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1016.364,"endTime":1018.914,"body":"there's probably more sharing,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1019.023,"endTime":1019.953,"body":"but do you have a comment on that?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1020.758,"endTime":1024.628,"body":"Yeah absolutely and I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1020.758,"endTime":1024.628,"body":"ooof, I'm coming up on, I think, close"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1024.628,"endTime":1027.148,"body":"to a decade now of being in the industry."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1027.148,"endTime":1029.758,"body":"So in relative terms, that's like ancient."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1030.538,"endTime":1034.018,"body":"And if you think back about where"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1030.538,"endTime":1034.018,"body":"things were when I got started, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1034.018,"endTime":1038.878,"body":"mean, just analysing shots was seen"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1034.018,"endTime":1038.878,"body":"as like technologically advanced."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1039.448,"endTime":1042.088,"body":"And these days, the things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1039.448,"endTime":1042.088,"body":"that I see in the public sphere"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1042.148,"endTime":1044.188,"body":"are just so far beyond that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1044.188,"endTime":1049.978,"body":"I mean really interesting stuff that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1044.188,"endTime":1049.978,"body":"people are doing and not just from a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1049.978,"endTime":1054.178,"body":"technical standpoint, where it's very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1049.978,"endTime":1054.178,"body":"commonplace for somebody to be able to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1054.178,"endTime":1056.578,"body":"scrape data, visualise it, analyse it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1056.922,"endTime":1060.912,"body":"That's kind of, I think, taken for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1056.922,"endTime":1060.912,"body":"granted in terms of like minimum toolset"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1060.972,"endTime":1062.502,"body":"that somebody would have these days."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1062.892,"endTime":1067.182,"body":"But I think the big difference"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1062.892,"endTime":1067.182,"body":"that I'm seeing now is a far better"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1067.332,"endTime":1069.012,"body":"tactical understanding of the sport."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1069.702,"endTime":1075.492,"body":"And trying to do the analysis within"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1069.702,"endTime":1075.492,"body":"a tactical framework and really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1075.522,"endTime":1080.732,"body":"understand how is what I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1075.522,"endTime":1080.732,"body":"analyse actually relatable to a coach,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1081.032,"endTime":1086.582,"body":"or relatable to a technical director,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1081.032,"endTime":1086.582,"body":"and trying to actually answer questions"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1086.582,"endTime":1088.082,"body":"that those types of people would have."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1088.682,"endTime":1093.302,"body":"Whereas I think, in the early days, it was"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1088.682,"endTime":1093.302,"body":"much more of like, oh, here's something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1093.302,"endTime":1097.442,"body":"interesting that I could do, but I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1093.302,"endTime":1097.442,"body":"really know what I would do with it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1097.512,"endTime":1099.572,"body":"It just sounds smart."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1099.842,"endTime":1103.872,"body":"So I think that's, probably like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1099.842,"endTime":1103.872,"body":"a really big, big shift that I've"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1103.872,"endTime":1105.612,"body":"noticed in the last couple of years."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1106.152,"endTime":1111.582,"body":"And this is, I think, brought on by a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1106.152,"endTime":1111.582,"body":"better access to data, where a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1111.582,"endTime":1117.312,"body":"data providers are giving young people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1111.582,"endTime":1117.312,"body":"the opportunity to showcase their skills."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1117.802,"endTime":1122.382,"body":"We now have tracking data available"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1117.802,"endTime":1122.382,"body":"for people to analyse if they want to."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1122.382,"endTime":1126.981,"body":"So I think all of that is leading"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1122.382,"endTime":1126.981,"body":"to kind of a growth in ideas."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1127.501,"endTime":1134.521,"body":"In terms of healthy, I still see maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1127.501,"endTime":1134.521,"body":"a lack of rigor in terms of some of the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1134.521,"endTime":1136.801,"body":"work, particularly around predictions."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1136.801,"endTime":1141.541,"body":"So if someone is trying to maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1136.801,"endTime":1141.541,"body":"predict whether or not a player is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1141.541,"endTime":1145.651,"body":"going to be successful after they"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1141.541,"endTime":1145.651,"body":"transfer, rarely will you see any sort"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1145.651,"endTime":1148.261,"body":"of like error or confidence in that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1148.261,"endTime":1151.291,"body":"It's just kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1148.261,"endTime":1151.291,"body":"it'll go up, it'll go down."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1151.621,"endTime":1155.771,"body":"So, you know, I think that's just a pet"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1151.621,"endTime":1155.771,"body":"peeve in terms of an area to improve."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1156.281,"endTime":1160.451,"body":"I think the other side of it too is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1156.281,"endTime":1160.451,"body":"like, healthy in terms of diversity."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1160.811,"endTime":1164.531,"body":"I think it's still"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1160.811,"endTime":1164.531,"body":"struggling there quite a bit."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1164.531,"endTime":1170.756,"body":"I mean, you do see diversity initiatives"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1164.531,"endTime":1170.756,"body":"happening and there's some progress"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1170.756,"endTime":1172.796,"body":"there, but there's still a long way to go."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1172.796,"endTime":1177.666,"body":"And it's not just race and gender and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1172.796,"endTime":1177.666,"body":"background, but I think in terms of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1177.816,"endTime":1179.526,"body":"you know, academic skills as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1179.826,"endTime":1183.636,"body":"I think a lot of clubs think like"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1179.826,"endTime":1183.636,"body":"PhD in physics, that's what I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1183.636,"endTime":1187.416,"body":"have to hire, when there's a very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1183.636,"endTime":1187.416,"body":"broad skillset, as we talked about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1187.416,"endTime":1189.426,"body":"earlier, that you need to hire from."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1189.666,"endTime":1192.906,"body":"Communication is so, so, so important."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1193.266,"endTime":1197.286,"body":"I'm not saying go out and hire English"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1193.266,"endTime":1197.286,"body":"majors, but I think there needs to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1197.286,"endTime":1201.326,"body":"be a little bit more thought in terms"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1197.286,"endTime":1201.326,"body":"of what does an analyst really need"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1201.326,"endTime":1203.996,"body":"to have on their CV to be successful?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1205.166,"endTime":1206.906,"body":"How are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1205.166,"endTime":1206.906,"body":"we going to improve that?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1207.026,"endTime":1212.456,"body":"I mean, we know that in jobs in sport"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1207.026,"endTime":1212.456,"body":"it's invariably through a network,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1212.486,"endTime":1214.226,"body":"that's how people land jobs in sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1214.569,"endTime":1217.69,"body":"Occasionally obviously there's an open"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1214.569,"endTime":1217.69,"body":"advertisement process, but it's definitely"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1217.69,"endTime":1219.31,"body":"the exception rather than the norm."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1220.66,"endTime":1223.69,"body":"I'm surprised that it hasn't improved"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1220.66,"endTime":1223.69,"body":"more as well, and I would have kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1223.69,"endTime":1227.23,"body":"hoped that it had, particularly because"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1223.69,"endTime":1227.23,"body":"of that breadth and depth of the roles"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1227.23,"endTime":1230.0,"body":"that they can have, and they can look"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1227.23,"endTime":1230.0,"body":"so different at different organisations."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1230.32,"endTime":1232.99,"body":"Yeah, I don't have any easy answers."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1233.74,"endTime":1235.42,"body":"I don't have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1233.74,"endTime":1235.42,"body":"any of the answers either."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1235.42,"endTime":1238.93,"body":"I mean, building my department, it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1235.42,"endTime":1238.93,"body":"something that we've always kind of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1239.96,"endTime":1244.76,"body":"valued quite a bit, but at the end of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1239.96,"endTime":1244.76,"body":"the day, you know, when we have a job"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1244.76,"endTime":1249.53,"body":"advert open, we only get applications"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1244.76,"endTime":1249.53,"body":"from a certain demographic, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1249.53,"endTime":1251.27,"body":"so that really limits the options."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1251.27,"endTime":1258.03,"body":"And so I think as an industry, we need to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1251.27,"endTime":1258.03,"body":"do better about keeping people interested"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1258.09,"endTime":1264.18,"body":"and make them know that this is a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1258.09,"endTime":1264.18,"body":"viable career path for a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1264.5,"endTime":1269.46,"body":"And whether that's getting more engaged"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1264.5,"endTime":1269.46,"body":"with schools at an early age and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1269.46,"endTime":1272.97,"body":"talking to the kids and saying like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1269.46,"endTime":1272.97,"body":"Hey, you know, this is a really cool"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1272.97,"endTime":1278.27,"body":"application of STEM, so stick with it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1272.97,"endTime":1278.27,"body":"and if you don't end up at a sports"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1278.27,"endTime":1281.15,"body":"organisation, these are the other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1278.27,"endTime":1281.15,"body":"careers that you could have as well."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1281.24,"endTime":1284.21,"body":"So I think there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1281.24,"endTime":1284.21,"body":"outreach we can do there."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1284.48,"endTime":1289.04,"body":"There's certain initiatives, one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1284.48,"endTime":1289.04,"body":"that I'm involved in now it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1289.04,"endTime":1290.99,"body":"called Measurables Office Hours."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1291.38,"endTime":1296.12,"body":"So they're just trying to match"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1291.38,"endTime":1296.12,"body":"people in the industry with people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1296.12,"endTime":1301.25,"body":"from underrepresented backgrounds"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1296.12,"endTime":1301.25,"body":"to hopefully make some networking"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1301.25,"endTime":1305.9,"body":"connections or provide feedback in terms"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1301.25,"endTime":1305.9,"body":"of how to get your foot in the door."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1306.35,"endTime":1309.08,"body":"But, you know, I think those are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1306.35,"endTime":1309.08,"body":"just kind of drops in the bucket."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1313.07,"body":"I don't really know if things will"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1313.07,"body":"be much different in five years."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1314.035,"endTime":1316.615,"body":"That sounds like a start,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1314.035,"endTime":1316.615,"body":"and I'll certainly drop a link to that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1316.615,"endTime":1320.405,"body":"in the link to this episode, but I agree"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1316.615,"endTime":1320.405,"body":"that's only just a drop in the ocean."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1320.692,"endTime":1324.382,"body":"I wanted to ask you about some of sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1320.692,"endTime":1324.382,"body":"analytics' biggest challenges and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1324.382,"endTime":1326.452,"body":"think that's one perhaps right there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1327.007,"endTime":1331.117,"body":"One that I think exists, although"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1327.007,"endTime":1331.117,"body":"I wouldn't say it's big in terms"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1331.117,"endTime":1333.997,"body":"of difficulty, it's just something"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1331.117,"endTime":1333.997,"body":"that it needs to do better,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1334.057,"endTime":1336.967,"body":"which is evaluating its impact."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1337.297,"endTime":1342.457,"body":"I talked about this with someone"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1337.297,"endTime":1342.457,"body":"recently on the show around staff teams"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1342.457,"endTime":1344.617,"body":"full stop, in sporting organisations."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1345.176,"endTime":1348.996,"body":"Again, sometimes I get guilty of beating"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1345.176,"endTime":1348.996,"body":"up on sport a little bit because I know"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1348.996,"endTime":1352.066,"body":"the area so well, but I don't think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1348.996,"endTime":1352.066,"body":"it's great in other organisations,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1352.086,"endTime":1353.826,"body":"in other industries, in some places."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1354.11,"endTime":1357.791,"body":"But I think we could do more in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1354.11,"endTime":1357.791,"body":"terms of evaluating its impact."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1358.217,"endTime":1360.707,"body":"The reason we don't is sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1358.217,"endTime":1360.707,"body":"that people feel like it's a threat"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1360.707,"endTime":1363.767,"body":"to maybe their freedom in their"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1360.707,"endTime":1363.767,"body":"role, but also a threat to the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1363.767,"endTime":1365.237,"body":"viability of their role as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1365.237,"endTime":1369.437,"body":"But for the reasons we've discussed"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1365.237,"endTime":1369.437,"body":"already and the breadth of areas in which"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1369.497,"endTime":1373.397,"body":"it can help, I actually think it would"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1369.497,"endTime":1373.397,"body":"probably increase the emphasis on sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1373.397,"endTime":1375.197,"body":"analytics and find new homes for it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1375.661,"endTime":1378.871,"body":"We've talked about the intersect"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1375.661,"endTime":1378.871,"body":"between sports analytics and sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1378.871,"endTime":1382.001,"body":"science already, and that hopefully"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1378.871,"endTime":1382.001,"body":"does create more opportunities"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1382.001,"endTime":1383.411,"body":"and more jobs in the future."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1383.411,"endTime":1389.622,"body":"But some ability to evaluate the job"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1383.411,"endTime":1389.622,"body":"is important, not just how accurate was"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1389.622,"endTime":1393.612,"body":"your model, for example, but all those"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1389.622,"endTime":1393.612,"body":"other things that analysts do as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1393.795,"endTime":1394.635,"body":"Do you agree with that?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1394.645,"endTime":1398.595,"body":"And what are some other challenges"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1394.645,"endTime":1398.595,"body":"you see ahead or even existing now?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1399.455,"endTime":1401.615,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1399.455,"endTime":1401.615,"body":"absolutely agree with that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1401.615,"endTime":1406.725,"body":"And I think it's so difficult because,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1401.615,"endTime":1406.725,"body":"at the end of the day, I think the value"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1406.725,"endTime":1411.765,"body":"of a sports analytics department is being"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1406.725,"endTime":1411.765,"body":"able to affect what happens on the pitch."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1412.065,"endTime":1416.475,"body":"So whether that's giving the coaching"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1412.065,"endTime":1416.475,"body":"staff some sort of insight that changes"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1416.475,"endTime":1421.585,"body":"the way that they approach their game set"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1416.475,"endTime":1421.585,"body":"up, whether it's bringing in new signings"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1421.615,"endTime":1424.585,"body":"that are impactful, you know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1421.615,"endTime":1424.585,"body":"lot of different ways that you can have"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1424.585,"endTime":1426.685,"body":"impact as a sports analytics department."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1427.195,"endTime":1431.665,"body":"I think that one of the difficulties"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1427.195,"endTime":1431.665,"body":"is that we're so far removed from the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1431.665,"endTime":1437.952,"body":"field that there's a lot of things that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1431.665,"endTime":1437.952,"body":"can change or alter our impact before"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1437.952,"endTime":1439.152,"body":"it actually ends up on the field."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1439.152,"endTime":1443.022,"body":"So we could go out and say, sign this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1439.152,"endTime":1443.022,"body":"player, this player and this player."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1443.622,"endTime":1443.982,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1444.192,"endTime":1445.872,"body":"Maybe that player doesn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1444.192,"endTime":1445.872,"body":"want to come to our club."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1446.232,"endTime":1449.832,"body":"Maybe that player has wage"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1446.232,"endTime":1449.832,"body":"demands that are outside of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1449.862,"endTime":1451.722,"body":"what we can currently afford."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1451.752,"endTime":1454.482,"body":"Maybe that player isn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1451.752,"endTime":1454.482,"body":"available for a work permit."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1454.872,"endTime":1458.082,"body":"Those are all things that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1454.872,"endTime":1458.082,"body":"could impact our effectiveness."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1458.532,"endTime":1463.032,"body":"So let's say we say, okay, so our top"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1458.532,"endTime":1463.032,"body":"targets aren't available, what about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1463.032,"endTime":1464.732,"body":"this guy, this guy, or this guy?."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1465.537,"endTime":1470.247,"body":"Well, maybe coaching staff doesn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1465.537,"endTime":1470.247,"body":"like him, or they're not sure, or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1470.247,"endTime":1473.797,"body":"maybe they have an agent that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1470.247,"endTime":1473.797,"body":"like to do business with the clubs."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1473.797,"endTime":1479.987,"body":"So there's just a whole host of factors"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1473.797,"endTime":1479.987,"body":"that can really impact whether or not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1480.107,"endTime":1484.697,"body":"some of the recommendations that we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1480.107,"endTime":1484.697,"body":"making actually end up coming to fruition."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1485.087,"endTime":1488.627,"body":"Some of them are out of our control,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1485.087,"endTime":1488.627,"body":"some of them you could say maybe"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1488.957,"endTime":1493.667,"body":"we need to do a better job managing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1488.957,"endTime":1493.667,"body":"up, or kind of speaking that same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1493.667,"endTime":1495.557,"body":"language, getting everything integrated."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1495.977,"endTime":1498.127,"body":"So, I think that's one"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1495.977,"endTime":1498.127,"body":"of the difficulties."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1498.607,"endTime":1502.717,"body":"And I think, at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1498.607,"endTime":1502.717,"body":"a lot of decisions aren't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1502.717,"endTime":1506.377,"body":"like, this is what we wanted to do or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1502.717,"endTime":1506.377,"body":"that's what we wanted to do, but it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1506.377,"endTime":1510.817,"body":"more of a compromise and saying like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1506.377,"endTime":1510.817,"body":"okay, we're all in agreement that this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1510.817,"endTime":1513.322,"body":"is the best decision going forward."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1513.712,"endTime":1516.472,"body":"And so if it's like, well, if I was in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1513.712,"endTime":1516.472,"body":"charge of the club, I would have done"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1516.472,"endTime":1520.652,"body":"something differently, but because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1516.472,"endTime":1520.652,"body":"it's a team sport we're going to go"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1520.652,"endTime":1521.912,"body":"in this direction and go with that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1521.912,"endTime":1525.772,"body":"And so again, I think it makes it a"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1521.912,"endTime":1525.772,"body":"little bit more difficult to measure"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1525.772,"endTime":1530.722,"body":"the impact, but for sure it's something"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1525.772,"endTime":1530.722,"body":"that I think probably every department"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1530.722,"endTime":1533.062,"body":"in the world could improve upon."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1533.062,"endTime":1537.412,"body":"And I think a lot of times we get asked to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1533.062,"endTime":1537.412,"body":"do that for other departments, but like,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1537.412,"endTime":1541.302,"body":"we don't want to do it to ourselves and,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1537.412,"endTime":1541.302,"body":"you know, they have the same difficulties."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1541.962,"endTime":1547.812,"body":"Yeah and in terms of other difficulties"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1541.962,"endTime":1547.812,"body":"I see for sports analytics, one that is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1547.812,"endTime":1555.627,"body":"top of mind for me these days is really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1547.812,"endTime":1555.627,"body":"around longevity issues with the data."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1556.167,"endTime":1561.087,"body":"So a lot of the data providers are not"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1556.167,"endTime":1561.087,"body":"very old, and so if you want to do any"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1561.087,"endTime":1566.607,"body":"sort of like longitudinal analysis, you're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1561.087,"endTime":1566.607,"body":"really kind of hamstrung in terms of,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1566.727,"endTime":1571.587,"body":"well I can only go back seven years, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1566.727,"endTime":1571.587,"body":"can only go back three years, or maybe I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1571.587,"endTime":1574.887,"body":"can go back seven years for one league,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1571.587,"endTime":1574.887,"body":"but three years for another league."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1575.187,"endTime":1580.317,"body":"And so it just kinda makes things"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1575.187,"endTime":1580.317,"body":"complicated and you just, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1580.647,"endTime":1584.487,"body":"have to be patient a lot of times"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1580.647,"endTime":1584.487,"body":"and say, well, we'll look at this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1584.487,"endTime":1586.707,"body":"next year or five years from now."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1587.277,"endTime":1593.007,"body":"Maybe this is unique to soccer, maybe this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1587.277,"endTime":1593.007,"body":"isn't unique to soccer, but the tactical"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1593.007,"endTime":1599.907,"body":"evolution of the sport is so quick that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1593.007,"endTime":1599.907,"body":"even if you could have 10, 20, 30 years"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1599.907,"endTime":1602.127,"body":"of data, would you even want to use it?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1602.607,"endTime":1607.257,"body":"And I'm sure this is something that other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1602.607,"endTime":1607.257,"body":"sports have come across and dealt with."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1607.257,"endTime":1612.867,"body":"I mean, the NBA for sure is drastically"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1607.257,"endTime":1612.867,"body":"different now than it was in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1612.867,"endTime":1614.337,"body":"eighties when I was watching it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1614.817,"endTime":1620.697,"body":"So I don't think it's unique to football"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1614.817,"endTime":1620.697,"body":"or soccer, I just don't know if enough"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1620.727,"endTime":1624.657,"body":"people are talking about it and worrying"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1620.727,"endTime":1624.657,"body":"about it and saying like, this is"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1624.657,"endTime":1629.577,"body":"something that's really going to impact my"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1624.657,"endTime":1629.577,"body":"models going forward because now everybody"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1629.577,"endTime":1633.477,"body":"wants to play with a back five, whereas"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1629.577,"endTime":1633.477,"body":"before only the worst teams wanted to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1633.477,"endTime":1635.387,"body":"play with a back five, that's a big shift."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1635.687,"endTime":1637.547,"body":"And are we accounting for that?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1637.937,"endTime":1642.527,"body":"That's something that I guess worries"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1637.937,"endTime":1642.527,"body":"me a little bit, but it seems solvable."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1643.502,"endTime":1643.772,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1643.782,"endTime":1645.912,"body":"It's a problem, but not the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1643.782,"endTime":1645.912,"body":"end of the world, I guess."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1646.272,"endTime":1647.682,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1646.272,"endTime":1647.682,"body":"mean, it definitely is."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1647.682,"endTime":1651.792,"body":"And you would hope, as I think I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1647.682,"endTime":1651.792,"body":"earlier, we really are talking about early"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1651.792,"endTime":1654.072,"body":"days here in terms of sports analytics."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1654.072,"endTime":1657.042,"body":"We're probably going to look back in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1654.072,"endTime":1657.042,"body":"a couple of decades time and wonder"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1657.042,"endTime":1660.312,"body":"what we were doing, you know, two"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1657.042,"endTime":1660.312,"body":"cave men rubbing sticks together."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1660.635,"endTime":1664.475,"body":"But I think the resolution of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1660.635,"endTime":1664.475,"body":"data as well is an interesting point."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1664.835,"endTime":1667.685,"body":"It's very clear we're going to have"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1664.835,"endTime":1667.685,"body":"better quality data on everything."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1667.925,"endTime":1671.855,"body":"We've got the sports tech, the startup"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1667.925,"endTime":1671.855,"body":"industry moving at a million miles"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1671.855,"endTime":1674.915,"body":"an hour, and you mentioned some of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1671.855,"endTime":1674.915,"body":"the third-party providers, they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1674.915,"endTime":1678.928,"body":"really prolific now and organisations"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1674.915,"endTime":1678.928,"body":"have so much choice with respect"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1678.928,"endTime":1680.398,"body":"to who they decide to work with."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1680.848,"endTime":1684.638,"body":"Coming back to what you said in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1680.848,"endTime":1684.638,"body":"the middle there around evaluation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1684.745,"endTime":1688.285,"body":"the example you gave then I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1684.745,"endTime":1688.285,"body":"is a great one in terms of just the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1688.285,"endTime":1692.638,"body":"nuance and how difficult it actually"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1688.285,"endTime":1692.638,"body":"would be to evaluate a sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1692.638,"endTime":1694.468,"body":"analytics department or an individual."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1694.798,"endTime":1699.178,"body":"And maybe this is part of the reason"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1694.798,"endTime":1699.178,"body":"why it hasn't been done, is you can make"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1699.178,"endTime":1703.155,"body":"a recommendation or develop a process"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1699.178,"endTime":1703.155,"body":"or a system or an answer to a problem,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1703.155,"endTime":1706.425,"body":"but it doesn't necessarily mean the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1703.155,"endTime":1706.425,"body":"organisation will actually act on that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1706.575,"endTime":1710.841,"body":"And even the ability to record"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1706.575,"endTime":1710.841,"body":"that over time can be problematic."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1710.841,"endTime":1714.831,"body":"Because again, if that information is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1710.841,"endTime":1714.831,"body":"shown longitudinally, or even discretely,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1714.831,"endTime":1719.811,"body":"on a particular decision to discredit,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1714.831,"endTime":1719.811,"body":"or to show that an existing decision"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1719.811,"endTime":1724.511,"body":"maker, either a manager or a coach,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1719.811,"endTime":1724.511,"body":"was or is wrong, that's potentially"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1724.511,"endTime":1728.051,"body":"dangerous in terms of the interpersonal"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1724.511,"endTime":1728.051,"body":"relationships the analyst has as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1728.398,"endTime":1732.478,"body":"And that's a tricky it's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1728.398,"endTime":1732.478,"body":"human resources piece as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1732.478,"endTime":1736.418,"body":"It's, kind of inherent in the role"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1732.478,"endTime":1736.418,"body":"sometimes that it is inherently"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1736.443,"endTime":1738.183,"body":"confrontational at times, I think."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1738.183,"endTime":1740.716,"body":"And that's another part of why"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1738.183,"endTime":1740.716,"body":"maybe that piece hasn't been done."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1740.873,"endTime":1745.043,"body":"Now just before I let you go, I always"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1740.873,"endTime":1745.043,"body":"try and finish on a positive note."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1745.083,"endTime":1746.723,"body":"We talked about some challenges there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1747.413,"endTime":1749.753,"body":"Where do you think this is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1747.413,"endTime":1749.753,"body":"going to go in the near future?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1749.753,"endTime":1754.073,"body":"And I don't want to put a time limit on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1749.753,"endTime":1754.073,"body":"that, whether it's five years, 10 years."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1754.073,"endTime":1756.793,"body":"We talked about some challenges,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1754.073,"endTime":1756.793,"body":"but what's the really good stuff"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1756.883,"endTime":1760.573,"body":"that hopefully is coming or you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1756.883,"endTime":1760.573,"body":"think will be coming in this"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1760.573,"endTime":1762.043,"body":"area in the next little while?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1762.603,"endTime":1766.173,"body":"Yeah, I mean I think, this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1762.603,"endTime":1766.173,"body":"isn't anything kind of groundbreaking,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1766.203,"endTime":1771.903,"body":"but as we see the generations turn"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1766.203,"endTime":1771.903,"body":"over, you're going to start seeing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1771.903,"endTime":1776.013,"body":"more people in really powerful"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1771.903,"endTime":1776.013,"body":"positions who really buy into this."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1776.613,"endTime":1781.143,"body":"And it's not just going to be,"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1776.613,"endTime":1781.143,"body":"we have this because we want"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1781.143,"endTime":1782.823,"body":"to stay ahead of the pack."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1782.853,"endTime":1787.498,"body":"It's going to be, we have this because"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1782.853,"endTime":1787.498,"body":"it's essential to how I need to operate."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1788.008,"endTime":1789.568,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1788.008,"endTime":1789.568,"body":"going to be a big shift."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1789.568,"endTime":1795.568,"body":"I think right now you'll see a couple"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1789.568,"endTime":1795.568,"body":"of clubs in the world that really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1795.568,"endTime":1800.548,"body":"truly believe in this and have it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1795.568,"endTime":1800.548,"body":"fully integrated into every aspect"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1800.728,"endTime":1804.898,"body":"of how they do business, but they're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1800.728,"endTime":1804.898,"body":"definitely the exception and not the norm."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1805.348,"endTime":1809.458,"body":"And I think that's going to change"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1805.348,"endTime":1809.458,"body":"over the next couple of years, whether"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1809.458,"endTime":1814.408,"body":"it's five years, 10 years, I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1809.458,"endTime":1814.408,"body":"really have a good grasp on what the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1814.408,"endTime":1817.678,"body":"timeframe will be, but I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1814.408,"endTime":1817.678,"body":"coming sooner rather than later."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1818.248,"endTime":1822.908,"body":"And I think with that we're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1818.248,"endTime":1822.908,"body":"going to see a big shift in the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1822.908,"endTime":1825.248,"body":"resources being allocated to it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1825.668,"endTime":1830.448,"body":"I think you're going to see a lot"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1825.668,"endTime":1830.448,"body":"more departments that are properly"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1830.468,"endTime":1835.508,"body":"staffed with the data engineers, and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1830.468,"endTime":1835.508,"body":"the data scientists, and all of that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1835.508,"endTime":1837.008,"body":"stuff to really make things hum."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1837.488,"endTime":1842.543,"body":"But then what's going to happen, I"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1837.488,"endTime":1842.543,"body":"think, is right now a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1842.543,"endTime":1847.343,"body":"are just kind of operating in the same"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1842.543,"endTime":1847.343,"body":"way and you can still get a competitive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1847.343,"endTime":1850.973,"body":"advantage by operating the same way as"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1847.343,"endTime":1850.973,"body":"the person next to you because there"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1850.973,"endTime":1852.443,"body":"aren't that many people doing it."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1852.863,"endTime":1857.933,"body":"And so, as long as there's 15 other"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1852.863,"endTime":1857.933,"body":"people in the league that aren't doing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1857.933,"endTime":1859.913,"body":"anything, you're ahead of the pack."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1860.213,"endTime":1860.663,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1861.263,"endTime":1864.473,"body":"Well, what's going to happen is as it"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1861.263,"endTime":1864.473,"body":"becomes more and more commonplace to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1864.473,"endTime":1868.523,"body":"make these data-driven decisions, people"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1864.473,"endTime":1868.523,"body":"are going to have to start to get really"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1868.523,"endTime":1874.193,"body":"experimental and really creative in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1868.523,"endTime":1874.193,"body":"terms of how are they going to create"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1874.193,"endTime":1876.113,"body":"and maintain that competitive advantage."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1876.773,"endTime":1879.563,"body":"I don't have specifics, or I don't"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1876.773,"endTime":1879.563,"body":"want to go into specifics of what"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1879.563,"endTime":1883.583,"body":"that looks like, but I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1879.563,"endTime":1883.583,"body":"where the fun really begins and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1883.613,"endTime":1886.933,"body":"you'll start to see some really clever"},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1883.613,"endTime":1886.933,"body":"people doing some really clever stuff."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1887.526,"endTime":1891.546,"body":"That is a nice and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1887.526,"endTime":1891.546,"body":"optimistic tone to finish on and I agree."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1891.546,"endTime":1895.641,"body":"And I think the thread that ran through"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1891.546,"endTime":1895.641,"body":"our conversation there is a little"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1895.641,"endTime":1897.501,"body":"bit of stability in the long game."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1897.501,"endTime":1903.044,"body":"And I think, again, those organisations"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1897.501,"endTime":1903.044,"body":"that are willing to invest now and plan"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1903.044,"endTime":1908.681,"body":"now and provide certain staff time and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1903.044,"endTime":1908.681,"body":"freedom to focus on those bigger ideas"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1908.681,"endTime":1911.651,"body":"and bigger questions will certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1908.681,"endTime":1911.651,"body":"reap the benefits down the track."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1912.425,"endTime":1915.275,"body":"On that note, Sarah Rudd, thank"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1912.425,"endTime":1915.275,"body":"you for joining me on the show."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1915.845,"endTime":1916.535,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Sarah Rudd","startTime":1916.695,"endTime":1921.045,"body":"It was a great time."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1923.185,"endTime":1925.555,"body":"My next guest on the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1923.185,"endTime":1925.555,"body":"show is Professor David Sumpter."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1925.965,"endTime":1929.55,"body":"David is author of the books"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1925.965,"endTime":1929.55,"body":"Soccermatics, Outnumbered, and The"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1929.55,"endTime":1931.41,"body":"Ten Equations That Rule the World."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1931.65,"endTime":1935.04,"body":"His research covers everything from the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1931.65,"endTime":1935.04,"body":"inner workings of fish schools and ant"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1935.04,"endTime":1940.23,"body":"colonies, through to social psychology"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1935.04,"endTime":1940.23,"body":"and segregation in society, to machine"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1940.23,"endTime":1942.24,"body":"learning and artificial intelligence."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1942.54,"endTime":1945.69,"body":"David has consulted for leading"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1942.54,"endTime":1945.69,"body":"football clubs and countries, including"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1945.69,"endTime":1948.03,"body":"Hammarby, Barcelona and England."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1948.36,"endTime":1952.26,"body":"He works actively with outreach to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1948.36,"endTime":1952.26,"body":"schools, industry, and the social sector,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1952.68,"endTime":1957.57,"body":"and his talks at Google, TEDx, the Oxford"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1952.68,"endTime":1957.57,"body":"Mathematics Public Lecture, and the Royal"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1957.57,"endTime":1959.42,"body":"Institution are all available online."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1961.096,"endTime":1962.217,"body":"David, thank you for joining us!"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":1962.877,"endTime":1963.897,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1964.397,"endTime":1967.127,"body":"We've just heard"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1964.397,"endTime":1967.127,"body":"from Sarah about how she's come"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1967.127,"endTime":1971.582,"body":"to define sports analytics herself"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1967.127,"endTime":1971.582,"body":"after giving it considerable"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1971.582,"endTime":1972.992,"body":"thought throughout her career."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1973.802,"endTime":1977.222,"body":"And I agree with some of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1973.802,"endTime":1977.222,"body":"things she said in the fact that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1977.222,"endTime":1981.182,"body":"the term's not really nailed down"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1977.222,"endTime":1981.182,"body":"yet in terms of how we define it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1981.812,"endTime":1984.122,"body":"And I think there's a couple of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1981.812,"endTime":1984.122,"body":"reasons as to why this is the case,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1984.152,"endTime":1988.622,"body":"but before perhaps we get into those,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1984.152,"endTime":1988.622,"body":"I'll be interested in how you define"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1988.622,"endTime":1993.362,"body":"and maybe even delimit that term"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1988.622,"endTime":1993.362,"body":"of 'sports analytics' and perhaps"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1993.362,"endTime":1995.942,"body":"whether it's even appropriate, or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":1993.362,"endTime":1995.942,"body":"maybe there's a better term out there."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":1997.072,"endTime":2000.402,"body":"I think, I mean, I'm"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":1997.072,"endTime":2000.402,"body":"specifically interested in one thing."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2000.432,"endTime":2003.642,"body":"So if it's okay, I'm going to define"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2000.432,"endTime":2003.642,"body":"it kind of down the lines of the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2003.642,"endTime":2005.442,"body":"things that I'm interested in."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2005.472,"endTime":2009.222,"body":"And I'm interested in the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2005.472,"endTime":2009.222,"body":"collective aspects, so how"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2009.222,"endTime":2010.212,"body":"things are done in the group."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2010.212,"endTime":2013.452,"body":"So, I mean, sports analytics"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2010.212,"endTime":2013.452,"body":"of course is very broad."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2013.452,"endTime":2017.622,"body":"There's all kind of ways in which you can"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2013.452,"endTime":2017.622,"body":"use maths and numbers in sports, but I'm"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2017.622,"endTime":2023.412,"body":"interested in how individuals act together"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2017.622,"endTime":2023.412,"body":"to achieve a goal, and in football or"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2023.462,"endTime":2025.862,"body":"soccer, the goal is to score goals."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2026.282,"endTime":2027.842,"body":"And so how would you manage to do that?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2027.842,"endTime":2030.332,"body":"How would you get a group"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2027.842,"endTime":2030.332,"body":"of people to come together?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2030.812,"endTime":2035.522,"body":"Both tactically, both combining"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2030.812,"endTime":2035.522,"body":"their skills, both mentally,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2035.762,"endTime":2040.112,"body":"physically, how do you get them to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2035.762,"endTime":2040.112,"body":"come together to achieve a goal?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2040.502,"endTime":2042.552,"body":"And then how do you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2040.502,"endTime":2042.552,"body":"use numbers to do that?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2043.042,"endTime":2044.822,"body":"So then, okay, that's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2043.042,"endTime":2044.822,"body":"what we're trying to do."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2044.822,"endTime":2046.982,"body":"We're trying to get the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2044.822,"endTime":2046.982,"body":"collective behavior aspect."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2047.552,"endTime":2050.102,"body":"And that is where I think the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2047.552,"endTime":2050.102,"body":"mathematics comes in because"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2050.102,"endTime":2052.682,"body":"maths is describing patterns."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2053.072,"endTime":2056.582,"body":"It describes how things fit"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2053.072,"endTime":2056.582,"body":"together and it can describe how"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2056.582,"endTime":2057.782,"body":"players in the team fit together."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2058.637,"endTime":2063.087,"body":"And so for me, sports analytics, if"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2058.637,"endTime":2063.087,"body":"I come then to my definition, sports"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2063.087,"endTime":2068.297,"body":"analytics is the use of mathematical"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2063.087,"endTime":2068.297,"body":"tools to explain the collective."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2068.297,"endTime":2072.107,"body":"And we're probably going to go into more"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2068.297,"endTime":2072.107,"body":"concrete examples as we go along, but"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2072.107,"endTime":2076.637,"body":"that's the kind of overall definition"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2072.107,"endTime":2076.637,"body":"of what I see sports analytics as being."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2077.317,"endTime":2080.597,"body":"And you're right, you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2077.317,"endTime":2080.597,"body":"did provide a suitably broad definition."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2080.597,"endTime":2084.143,"body":"We will narrow that down a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2080.597,"endTime":2084.143,"body":"but I don't think this is necessarily"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2084.143,"endTime":2088.673,"body":"exclusive of individual sports either,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2084.143,"endTime":2088.673,"body":"but that emphasis on the collective, even"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2088.673,"endTime":2093.893,"body":"in which the way a team of individuals"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2088.673,"endTime":2093.893,"body":"come together, working with an individual"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2093.893,"endTime":2097.0,"body":"athlete, for example, their coach"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2093.893,"endTime":2097.0,"body":"and their psychologist, and I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2097.0,"endTime":2100.6,"body":"there's a growing recognition of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2097.0,"endTime":2100.6,"body":"complexity of sporting environments."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2100.6,"endTime":2103.03,"body":"And I know some of your work for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2100.6,"endTime":2103.03,"body":"example in, I don't know whether"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2103.03,"endTime":2106.48,"body":"it's ecology, but it's certainly with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2103.03,"endTime":2106.48,"body":"animal species, is certainly relevant."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2106.48,"endTime":2109.351,"body":"And I think we're seeing a growing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2106.48,"endTime":2109.351,"body":"number of people coming from areas"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2109.351,"endTime":2111.564,"body":"like ecology into sports analytics."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2112.072,"endTime":2115.312,"body":"I think some other reasons why it's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2112.072,"endTime":2115.312,"body":"little difficult for people as well is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2115.312,"endTime":2116.632,"body":"because it's still quite new, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2116.632,"endTime":2120.562,"body":"And it does differ so much across"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2116.632,"endTime":2120.562,"body":"sports and nations and cultures."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2121.162,"endTime":2124.032,"body":"And it's also very fast"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2121.162,"endTime":2124.032,"body":"moving, there's no question."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2124.032,"endTime":2127.512,"body":"And perhaps as it becomes more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2124.032,"endTime":2127.512,"body":"entrenched, more diverse roles"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2127.662,"endTime":2130.854,"body":"start to become established, it will"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2127.662,"endTime":2130.854,"body":"become a little bit easier to define"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2130.884,"endTime":2132.754,"body":"or perhaps not, we'll find out."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2132.984,"endTime":2134.384,"body":"For one thing."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2134.444,"endTime":2139.344,"body":"I mean, I gave a very kind of abstract"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2134.444,"endTime":2139.344,"body":"definition at the start, but actually one"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2139.344,"endTime":2143.274,"body":"thing that's very important to me is that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2139.344,"endTime":2143.274,"body":"these things are very concrete, that when"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2143.724,"endTime":2149.244,"body":"you work as a sports analytics expert or"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2143.724,"endTime":2149.244,"body":"a data scientist within a football club"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2149.244,"endTime":2153.384,"body":"or a sports club, you're actually part"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2149.244,"endTime":2153.384,"body":"of the day-to-day activities of that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2153.384,"endTime":2157.224,"body":"club, that you're involved with talking"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2153.384,"endTime":2157.224,"body":"to the trainer, you're involved with"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2157.224,"endTime":2161.394,"body":"talking to the people who are running the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2157.224,"endTime":2161.394,"body":"club, you're involved in talking to the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2161.394,"endTime":2164.064,"body":"players, you interact with a physiologist."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2164.544,"endTime":2169.014,"body":"And that's because, exactly as you said,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2164.544,"endTime":2169.014,"body":"because a sport is a complex system."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2169.524,"endTime":2172.224,"body":"And if you're working with a complex"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2169.524,"endTime":2172.224,"body":"system, and this is what I learned"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2172.524,"endTime":2175.374,"body":"from working with ants, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2172.524,"endTime":2175.374,"body":"been a lot to Australia and I actually"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2175.374,"endTime":2180.484,"body":"worked with ant biologists in Sydney in"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2175.374,"endTime":2180.484,"body":"particular, but I've worked a lot on ant"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2180.484,"endTime":2183.444,"body":"behavior, on fish behavior, and so on."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2183.654,"endTime":2186.894,"body":"If you're working with a complex"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2183.654,"endTime":2186.894,"body":"system, you have to get deep"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2186.984,"endTime":2188.814,"body":"inside that complex system."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2189.294,"endTime":2190.804,"body":"And my wife's just come"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2189.294,"endTime":2190.804,"body":"in with a cup of coffee."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2191.254,"endTime":2191.874,"body":"Great timing."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2191.874,"endTime":2195.664,"body":"So you have to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2191.874,"endTime":2195.664,"body":"sort of be embedded in it, and I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2195.664,"endTime":2198.264,"body":"think that is really key to that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2198.264,"endTime":2200.154,"body":"It's not something you do from outside."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2200.544,"endTime":2204.474,"body":"You actually have to be part of that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2200.544,"endTime":2204.474,"body":"complex system and do it from the inside."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2204.844,"endTime":2207.364,"body":"It's a great"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2204.844,"endTime":2207.364,"body":"point and that coffee looks good."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2207.764,"endTime":2209.944,"body":"Although on the other side of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2207.764,"endTime":2209.944,"body":"world, we're just about turning to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2209.944,"endTime":2211.264,"body":"red wine at this time of the evening."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2211.714,"endTime":2215.574,"body":"So that's the beauty of doing these"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2211.714,"endTime":2215.574,"body":"things all around the world at the moment."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2215.614,"endTime":2218.594,"body":"But I think that there's some great"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2215.614,"endTime":2218.594,"body":"points, but I think there's a couple"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2218.594,"endTime":2221.49,"body":"of other things as well that come to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2218.594,"endTime":2221.49,"body":"mind as you were speaking, which  until"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2221.49,"endTime":2226.14,"body":"recently, I mean, you could still argue"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2221.49,"endTime":2226.14,"body":"that there is no real degree or training"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2226.14,"endTime":2227.89,"body":"that you do to become a sports analyst."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2228.01,"endTime":2231.79,"body":"We're seeing people from a whole variety"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2228.01,"endTime":2231.79,"body":"of backgrounds, and I mentioned ecology"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2231.79,"endTime":2233.35,"body":"there and you gave some examples."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2233.95,"endTime":2237.57,"body":"I can guarantee the spiders are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2233.95,"endTime":2237.57,"body":"just as prolific here as the ants."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2239.17,"endTime":2240.55,"body":"We're seeing people from a..."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2241.0,"endTime":2244.1,"body":"yeah, I think there's a lot of people from"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2241.0,"endTime":2244.1,"body":"physics, for example, right now in sport."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2244.47,"endTime":2248.05,"body":"And perhaps before that, we saw a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2244.47,"endTime":2248.05,"body":"lot from economics, I think, maybe"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2248.05,"endTime":2251.03,"body":"back into the nineties and the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2248.05,"endTime":2251.03,"body":"early days of sports analytics."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2251.41,"endTime":2255.28,"body":"But unless your sporting organisation's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2251.41,"endTime":2255.28,"body":"very well resourced, and perhaps even"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2255.28,"endTime":2260.26,"body":"if it is, you're going to be performing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2255.28,"endTime":2260.26,"body":"multiple functions when you come into a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2260.26,"endTime":2264.325,"body":"sports organisation, you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2260.26,"endTime":2264.325,"body":"be probably doing much physics at all,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2264.325,"endTime":2268.105,"body":"even though if it might be valuable to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2264.325,"endTime":2268.105,"body":"you, whether that's state engineering,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2268.105,"endTime":2269.895,"body":"model development, visualisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2270.265,"endTime":2272.845,"body":"Now, your background of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2270.265,"endTime":2272.845,"body":"course is applied mathematics."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2272.845,"endTime":2276.119,"body":"So you're going to advocate for people"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2272.845,"endTime":2276.119,"body":"with that type of training, of course, to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2276.119,"endTime":2277.999,"body":"come in and perform these roles, I'm sure."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2278.519,"endTime":2281.479,"body":"Yeah I'm not sure I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2278.519,"endTime":2281.479,"body":"am going to advocate precisely for"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2281.479,"endTime":2284.509,"body":"someone with my type of training,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2281.479,"endTime":2284.509,"body":"but what you need to have is"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2284.509,"endTime":2285.919,"body":"that sort of complex thinking."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2286.249,"endTime":2290.599,"body":"And when I worked on animal behavior,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2286.249,"endTime":2290.599,"body":"we saw lots of physicists come in"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2290.599,"endTime":2295.279,"body":"with their models, we saw biologists"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2290.599,"endTime":2295.279,"body":"develop different models, and I think"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2295.279,"endTime":2298.749,"body":"it's that type of thinking, in terms"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2295.279,"endTime":2298.749,"body":"of how you create a mathematical"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2298.749,"endTime":2300.549,"body":"model of something, is what you need."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2300.999,"endTime":2303.219,"body":"So yeah, of course, if you've"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2300.999,"endTime":2303.219,"body":"got an applied maths training"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2303.219,"endTime":2306.339,"body":"you can be good at that, but"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2303.219,"endTime":2306.339,"body":"that's not necessarily the thing."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2306.339,"endTime":2310.689,"body":"It's that thinking about how do you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2306.339,"endTime":2310.689,"body":"find a good way of looking at a system,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2310.719,"endTime":2312.589,"body":"which allows us to better understand it?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2312.609,"endTime":2316.869,"body":"I mean, maybe I will become a little"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2312.609,"endTime":2316.869,"body":"bit concrete, so I'll say like one thing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2316.869,"endTime":2320.749,"body":"that we worked on a lot at Hammerby when"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2316.869,"endTime":2320.749,"body":"I started there, so the first thing we"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2320.749,"endTime":2324.619,"body":"did is we find out what is the manager"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2320.749,"endTime":2324.619,"body":"interested in, in terms of the team"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2324.619,"endTime":2329.329,"body":"performance, and we use that to create"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2324.619,"endTime":2329.329,"body":"our KPIs, our key performance indices."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2329.719,"endTime":2333.579,"body":"Now there is a tendency for some sort"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2329.719,"endTime":2333.579,"body":"of business executives to come down to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2333.579,"endTime":2336.349,"body":"a football club and say, well, we're"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2333.579,"endTime":2336.349,"body":"going to measure expected goals, and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2336.619,"endTime":2339.259,"body":"we're going to measure this, or we're"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2336.619,"endTime":2339.259,"body":"going to measure that, and that's what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2339.259,"endTime":2340.369,"body":"you're going to have to live up to."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2340.789,"endTime":2343.089,"body":"And what we did is I actually"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2340.789,"endTime":2343.089,"body":"went out on the training field."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2343.089,"endTime":2347.139,"body":"I found out how they were training,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2343.089,"endTime":2347.139,"body":"how they were playing, and then we"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2347.139,"endTime":2351.434,"body":"started to build up measurements"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2347.139,"endTime":2351.434,"body":"of the team on the basis of that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2351.914,"endTime":2355.034,"body":"And one thing that was central for"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2351.914,"endTime":2355.034,"body":"the manager was to get the ball back,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2355.274,"endTime":2357.314,"body":"quickly, in the attacking third."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2357.704,"endTime":2361.754,"body":"And so this is the sort of Pep"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2357.704,"endTime":2361.754,"body":"Guardiola rule of getting the ball"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2361.754,"endTime":2365.774,"body":"back after five seconds, and that was"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2361.754,"endTime":2365.774,"body":"very important to our style of play."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2366.194,"endTime":2368.414,"body":"And so that was the thing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2366.194,"endTime":2368.414,"body":"that we focused on measuring."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2368.474,"endTime":2370.934,"body":"And so, first of all, we focused"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2368.474,"endTime":2370.934,"body":"on measuring it so that every"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2370.934,"endTime":2373.124,"body":"week we could have a report"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2370.934,"endTime":2373.124,"body":"to see how that was developed."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2373.814,"endTime":2378.824,"body":"And then we started to focus on, well,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2373.814,"endTime":2378.824,"body":"how can we actually organise the team"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2379.004,"endTime":2380.774,"body":"in order to get the ball back quickly?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2381.074,"endTime":2385.724,"body":"And then we use things like tracking data"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2381.074,"endTime":2385.724,"body":"to find out the positions of the players."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2386.084,"endTime":2388.754,"body":"Then we started to think about what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2386.084,"endTime":2388.754,"body":"would be the optimal positions of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2388.754,"endTime":2391.35,"body":"the player and we came up with an"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2388.754,"endTime":2391.35,"body":"idea, what we called the cross."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2392.04,"endTime":2395.685,"body":"And that is that when you're in"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2392.04,"endTime":2395.685,"body":"the attacking third, what you do"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2395.685,"endTime":2399.075,"body":"is you make a cross in midfield"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2395.685,"endTime":2399.075,"body":"with your remaining players."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2399.075,"endTime":2403.755,"body":"You have your five attacking players"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2399.075,"endTime":2403.755,"body":"in the top, and you have your remaining"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2403.905,"endTime":2408.165,"body":"outfield players and you make them"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2403.905,"endTime":2408.165,"body":"into a cross, and that covers a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2408.165,"endTime":2410.505,"body":"the space if you lose the ball again."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2411.195,"endTime":2412.995,"body":"And this was our sort of form of working."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2412.995,"endTime":2415.605,"body":"I've given that example before,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2412.995,"endTime":2415.605,"body":"but there's lots of other examples."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2416.025,"endTime":2419.61,"body":"First, you start by finding out what's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2416.025,"endTime":2419.61,"body":"important, then you think about how you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2419.61,"endTime":2423.84,"body":"measure what's important, and then you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2419.61,"endTime":2423.84,"body":"sort of dig down deeper and find out"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2423.84,"endTime":2425.64,"body":"how you can manipulate what's important."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2425.94,"endTime":2429.09,"body":"And you can only do that when"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2425.94,"endTime":2429.09,"body":"you have a complex systems way of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2429.09,"endTime":2432.48,"body":"thinking, that you're kind of embedded"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2429.09,"endTime":2432.48,"body":"inside what you're working in."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2432.836,"endTime":2435.956,"body":"Yeah and I was going to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2432.836,"endTime":2435.956,"body":"say that therefore leaves the definition"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2435.956,"endTime":2437.786,"body":"open for someone from any background."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2437.896,"endTime":2441.836,"body":"It's more, the commonality running"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2437.896,"endTime":2441.836,"body":"through there is the understanding"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2441.836,"endTime":2443.316,"body":"of complexity, as you mentioned."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2443.336,"endTime":2445.706,"body":"And I think that should be liberating"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2443.336,"endTime":2445.706,"body":"for people from any background"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2445.706,"endTime":2448.466,"body":"wanting to come into sport and work"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2445.706,"endTime":2448.466,"body":"and maybe have an impact, I think."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2448.906,"endTime":2452.776,"body":"The other thing you said that I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2448.906,"endTime":2452.776,"body":"pick up on, because I'm fascinated by this"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2452.776,"endTime":2459.206,"body":"and I think it's not done anywhere near"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2452.776,"endTime":2459.206,"body":"well enough, is that matching of a coach"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2459.206,"endTime":2463.286,"body":"or a manager's or decision-maker's mental"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2459.206,"endTime":2463.286,"body":"model with that of an analytical model."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2463.826,"endTime":2467.576,"body":"But also, I'm thinking of the term"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2463.826,"endTime":2467.576,"body":"construct validity, but I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2467.576,"endTime":2472.406,"body":"get so much into measurement, but the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2467.576,"endTime":2472.406,"body":"ability to add the weighting to something"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2472.406,"endTime":2475.046,"body":"that previously hasn't been measured"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2472.406,"endTime":2475.046,"body":"with anything other than the human"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2475.046,"endTime":2479.576,"body":"eye, and the example you gave then was,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2475.046,"endTime":2479.576,"body":"there was words, there was a definition"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2479.636,"endTime":2484.136,"body":"in that coach's mental model, and then"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2479.636,"endTime":2484.136,"body":"you sought to under underpin that with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2484.136,"endTime":2488.546,"body":"some evidence or some objective data,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2484.136,"endTime":2488.546,"body":"dare I say it, or even a framework."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2488.876,"endTime":2491.846,"body":"I think that, I mean, I know it happens"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2488.876,"endTime":2491.846,"body":"now, you just gave a great example of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2491.846,"endTime":2494.256,"body":"it, but I think that's an area there's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2491.846,"endTime":2494.256,"body":"even more work that we could do in."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2494.756,"endTime":2495.626,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2495.686,"endTime":2497.036,"body":"I think it's very difficult."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2497.036,"endTime":2500.706,"body":"I mean, I was very lucky in the way"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2497.036,"endTime":2500.706,"body":"that I came in working in Hammerby"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2500.756,"endTime":2505.146,"body":"and I don't think that this, I mean,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2500.756,"endTime":2505.146,"body":"I work with others top clubs and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2505.266,"endTime":2508.566,"body":"countries and there it's very difficult"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2505.266,"endTime":2508.566,"body":"to work in that type of way, because"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2508.566,"endTime":2512.316,"body":"there's a hierarchical structure,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2508.566,"endTime":2512.316,"body":"there's a way of doing things before."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2512.616,"endTime":2516.576,"body":"They do have data people, but data"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2512.616,"endTime":2516.576,"body":"people it's sort of a different role."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2516.576,"endTime":2519.456,"body":"It's more about providing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2516.576,"endTime":2519.456,"body":"some kind of visualisation for"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2519.456,"endTime":2521.016,"body":"the manager to maybe look at."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2521.696,"endTime":2524.286,"body":"It's not integrated in the same way."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2524.346,"endTime":2528.426,"body":"And I think that that's what has to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2524.346,"endTime":2528.426,"body":"happen within football clubs, that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2528.426,"endTime":2532.596,"body":"they need to find a way of treating"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2528.426,"endTime":2532.596,"body":"the data scientist in the same way"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2532.596,"endTime":2536.95,"body":"as they maybe treat the physiologist,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2532.596,"endTime":2536.95,"body":"that they're sort of part of the team"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2537.31,"endTime":2538.9,"body":"and there's an everyday interaction."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2538.91,"endTime":2541.36,"body":"So they're like the assistant"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2538.91,"endTime":2541.36,"body":"trainer or something like that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2541.69,"endTime":2545.14,"body":"And they're formulating those models"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2541.69,"endTime":2545.14,"body":"and continually developing that process."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2545.53,"endTime":2550.495,"body":"But the thing is also about that is, six"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2545.53,"endTime":2550.495,"body":"months later, we maybe change our style"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2550.495,"endTime":2556.075,"body":"of play and that idea of getting the ball"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2550.495,"endTime":2556.075,"body":"back within five seconds is not central"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2556.075,"endTime":2558.725,"body":"to what we're doing and there's another"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2556.075,"endTime":2558.725,"body":"type of way we're doing it and so other"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2558.775,"endTime":2560.395,"body":"seasons we've worked on different models."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2560.845,"endTime":2565.045,"body":"And so you can't just like build that one"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2560.845,"endTime":2565.045,"body":"model, deliver it to the club, and then"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2565.045,"endTime":2570.145,"body":"go away and leave them be, because that's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2565.045,"endTime":2570.145,"body":"continually evolving as they do things."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2570.205,"endTime":2574.435,"body":"And I think that that's where"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2570.205,"endTime":2574.435,"body":"the future of analytics lies,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2574.495,"endTime":2575.875,"body":"in that kind of interaction."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2576.235,"endTime":2580.745,"body":"I see actually, there's quite a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2576.235,"endTime":2580.745,"body":"moaning on Twitter about, well there's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2580.745,"endTime":2585.645,"body":"always moaning on Twitter, but there's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2580.745,"endTime":2585.645,"body":"some specific moaning on Twitter about"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2585.645,"endTime":2590.055,"body":"like maybe that football analytics isn't"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2585.645,"endTime":2590.055,"body":"going so far, that we've seen the same"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2590.055,"endTime":2592.155,"body":"visualisations time and time again."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2592.665,"endTime":2598.245,"body":"But I think it's more about, the future"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2592.665,"endTime":2598.245,"body":"is about, taking that into and actioning"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2598.245,"endTime":2600.585,"body":"it within inside football clubs."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2600.915,"endTime":2604.095,"body":"And that can be, for the people on Twitter"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2600.915,"endTime":2604.095,"body":"I mean, it can even be in your local team."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2604.125,"endTime":2608.235,"body":"You can start to use this sort of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2604.125,"endTime":2608.235,"body":"stuff on your own team, the team that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2608.235,"endTime":2611.535,"body":"you're playing with, you can film"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2608.235,"endTime":2611.535,"body":"them and do that type of analysis."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2611.835,"endTime":2614.625,"body":"So it's really about taking"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2611.835,"endTime":2614.625,"body":"those visualisations and putting"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2614.625,"endTime":2616.405,"body":"them into action and using them."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2617.495,"endTime":2618.455,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2618.475,"endTime":2620.805,"body":"And again, it's just different"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2618.475,"endTime":2620.805,"body":"levels of measurement,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2621.015,"endTime":2622.635,"body":"sophistication or detail, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2622.635,"endTime":2626.145,"body":"You can, as you said, cameras are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2622.635,"endTime":2626.145,"body":"prolific now, anyone can go out and film"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2626.145,"endTime":2628.385,"body":"and record an activity and measure it."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2628.501,"endTime":2630.871,"body":"They might not have tracking data,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2628.501,"endTime":2630.871,"body":"but they can still do it through"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2630.871,"endTime":2634.527,"body":"video and,  let's face it, it won't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2630.871,"endTime":2634.527,"body":"be too far away that just about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2634.527,"endTime":2638.067,"body":"anyone can obtain tracking data,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2634.527,"endTime":2638.067,"body":"probably within a decade I'd imagine."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2638.705,"endTime":2642.635,"body":"I wanted to talk to you about evaluating"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2638.705,"endTime":2642.635,"body":"sports analysts, because towards the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2642.635,"endTime":2645.365,"body":"end of my conversation with Sarah"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2642.635,"endTime":2645.365,"body":"we talked a little bit about how to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2645.365,"endTime":2650.185,"body":"evaluate the role of the sports analyst"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2645.365,"endTime":2650.185,"body":"and the example you gave then was a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2650.345,"endTime":2653.705,"body":"good one because it's not intangible,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2650.345,"endTime":2653.705,"body":"but it's quite a difficult thing to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2653.705,"endTime":2655.145,"body":"measure that example that you just gave."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2655.985,"endTime":2658.745,"body":"And I'm going to assume that it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2655.985,"endTime":2658.745,"body":"not done particularly well in general"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2658.745,"endTime":2661.565,"body":"in sport and it is a generalisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2661.955,"endTime":2664.955,"body":"And I don't think this is exclusive"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2661.955,"endTime":2664.955,"body":"to the sports analyst, either."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2665.225,"endTime":2667.895,"body":"Some of the other roles you've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2665.225,"endTime":2667.895,"body":"mentioned as well may be similar."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2668.461,"endTime":2671.281,"body":"Now, when it comes to analysts,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2668.461,"endTime":2671.281,"body":"we probably attempted to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2671.281,"endTime":2672.541,"body":"do this very objectively."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2672.661,"endTime":2676.543,"body":"We're going to evaluate on how accurate"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2672.661,"endTime":2676.543,"body":"the models that you build are, or whether"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2676.543,"endTime":2680.399,"body":"your decision or your recommendation"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2676.543,"endTime":2680.399,"body":"helped to avoid a decision being made."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2680.837,"endTime":2685.012,"body":"But I wonder sometimes whether we"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2680.837,"endTime":2685.012,"body":"miss, not so much the softer stuff,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2685.012,"endTime":2687.472,"body":"but some of the things you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2685.012,"endTime":2687.472,"body":"there, those human components of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2687.472,"endTime":2689.332,"body":"what it is to work in this space."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2689.332,"endTime":2692.147,"body":"So these are things that aren't just"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2689.332,"endTime":2692.147,"body":"true of data analytics, but perhaps"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2692.147,"endTime":2694.127,"body":"in science communication, full-stop."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2694.157,"endTime":2697.517,"body":"Things like, how can I communicate"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2694.157,"endTime":2697.517,"body":"something that's very challenging"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2697.907,"endTime":2700.157,"body":"without losing its inherent complexity?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2700.157,"endTime":2704.94,"body":"Or is this visualisation I'm providing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2700.157,"endTime":2704.94,"body":"actually even enjoyable to the end user?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2705.45,"endTime":2708.21,"body":"I mean, and that obviously means"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2705.45,"endTime":2708.21,"body":"it could be useful, not just for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2708.21,"endTime":2711.33,"body":"the decision-maker, but for fan"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2708.21,"endTime":2711.33,"body":"engagement and these types of areas."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2711.9,"endTime":2714.6,"body":"And I'm interested in your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2711.9,"endTime":2714.6,"body":"here, because I know, probably more"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2714.6,"endTime":2719.34,"body":"than most people working in this"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2714.6,"endTime":2719.34,"body":"space, you do a lot of varied things."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2719.4,"endTime":2722.01,"body":"And so that involves"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2719.4,"endTime":2722.01,"body":"communicating to different people."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2722.49,"endTime":2726.365,"body":"Authorship of books, research,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2722.49,"endTime":2726.365,"body":"teaching, working with Hammerby and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2726.365,"endTime":2730.535,"body":"other teams, presentations to the Royal"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2726.365,"endTime":2730.535,"body":"Institution, fantasy football apps."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2730.595,"endTime":2732.395,"body":"So I think you're well"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2730.595,"endTime":2732.395,"body":"placed to talk about this."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2732.865,"endTime":2735.775,"body":"Yeah, at the start,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2732.865,"endTime":2735.775,"body":"when you were talking about sort of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2735.775,"endTime":2739.225,"body":"evaluating, and I can imagine what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2735.775,"endTime":2739.225,"body":"Sarah was talking about, evaluating"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2739.225,"endTime":2741.445,"body":"is like knowing that analytics works."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2741.625,"endTime":2744.685,"body":"I'm kind of, this is sort of maybe"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2741.625,"endTime":2744.685,"body":"controversial, but I'm sort of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2744.745,"endTime":2746.785,"body":"anti bothering with evaluation."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2746.815,"endTime":2750.535,"body":"I'm not really interested"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2746.815,"endTime":2750.535,"body":"in that type of evaluation."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2750.535,"endTime":2754.165,"body":"Like how many points we get from"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2750.535,"endTime":2754.165,"body":"using analytics, for example,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2754.555,"endTime":2757.675,"body":"because, and I think that's related"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2754.555,"endTime":2757.675,"body":"to it being a complex system."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2758.065,"endTime":2763.345,"body":"The idea is that you would never not"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2758.065,"endTime":2763.345,"body":"have a fitness trainer in a football"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2763.345,"endTime":2764.935,"body":"team, because you need to have one."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2764.935,"endTime":2767.335,"body":"And it's very difficult to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2764.935,"endTime":2767.335,"body":"evaluate if that fitness trainer"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2767.335,"endTime":2771.415,"body":"is the one that's contributing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2767.335,"endTime":2771.415,"body":"to your performance, for example."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2771.905,"endTime":2773.665,"body":"And I think it's the same"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2771.905,"endTime":2773.665,"body":"with the data scientist."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2773.665,"endTime":2776.935,"body":"You should have the data scientists"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2773.665,"endTime":2776.935,"body":"in the team and they should contribute"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2778.065,"endTime":2781.965,"body":"and do as much as they can to make the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2778.065,"endTime":2781.965,"body":"team better, but we shouldn't be so"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2781.965,"endTime":2785.875,"body":"focused on that their role should be"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2781.965,"endTime":2785.875,"body":"sort of evaluating some sort of expected"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2785.875,"endTime":2787.375,"body":"goals metric or something like that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2787.675,"endTime":2791.365,"body":"It should really be about this"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2787.675,"endTime":2791.365,"body":"embedment, the embodiment thing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2791.365,"endTime":2792.445,"body":"that I talked about before."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2792.925,"endTime":2794.935,"body":"And then that's reflected"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2792.925,"endTime":2794.935,"body":"in my communication."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2794.935,"endTime":2799.375,"body":"I think that I maybe can appear, what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2794.935,"endTime":2799.375,"body":"do you call it, when I kind of like"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2799.435,"endTime":2804.025,"body":"move between lots of different areas and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2799.435,"endTime":2804.025,"body":"sometimes I'm doing a fantasy football"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2804.025,"endTime":2807.655,"body":"thing, sometimes I'm writing a book,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2804.025,"endTime":2807.655,"body":"sometimes I'm working, and that can maybe"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2807.655,"endTime":2811.915,"body":"make me appear not so serious about these"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2807.655,"endTime":2811.915,"body":"things, but I actually think that we"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2811.915,"endTime":2814.405,"body":"don't need to take things so seriously."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2814.435,"endTime":2818.125,"body":"The idea is that what we do with Twelve"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2814.435,"endTime":2818.125,"body":"with the fantasy football thing, for"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2818.125,"endTime":2823.835,"body":"example, is we created an app and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2818.125,"endTime":2823.835,"body":"actually the algorithm that is the basis"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2823.855,"endTime":2827.935,"body":"of that app, that originates from some"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2823.855,"endTime":2827.935,"body":"of Sarah's work, where she started with"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2827.935,"endTime":2829.885,"body":"making Markov chain models of football."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2830.245,"endTime":2834.775,"body":"We made an extended expected goals model"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2830.245,"endTime":2834.775,"body":"of football based on possession chains,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2835.525,"endTime":2838.855,"body":"and this is one of the most advanced"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2835.525,"endTime":2838.855,"body":"ways in which we can measure performance."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2839.785,"endTime":2844.705,"body":"And we said, let's actually just"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2839.785,"endTime":2844.705,"body":"put that in the hands of an everyday"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2844.705,"endTime":2850.255,"body":"football enthusiast, and the app you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2844.705,"endTime":2850.255,"body":"can download it at twelve.football/app,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2851.035,"endTime":2856.285,"body":"and it turns out that this app is most"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2851.035,"endTime":2856.285,"body":"enjoyable or very enjoyable for people"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2856.285,"endTime":2857.785,"body":"who aren't that interested in football."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2857.785,"endTime":2861.535,"body":"My daughter, who I've always tried to get"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2857.785,"endTime":2861.535,"body":"interested in football, you know, and took"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2861.535,"endTime":2865.885,"body":"her to train and play when she was seven"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2861.535,"endTime":2865.885,"body":"or eight and she sort of ran around a"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2865.885,"endTime":2867.655,"body":"little bit, but never really got into it."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2868.075,"endTime":2870.715,"body":"And I've managed to get her very"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2868.075,"endTime":2870.715,"body":"interested in watching football."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2870.745,"endTime":2874.255,"body":"Now she's 18 and she watches it with"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2870.745,"endTime":2874.255,"body":"her boyfriend, who also has no interest"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2874.255,"endTime":2878.275,"body":"in football, and they play this app"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2874.255,"endTime":2878.275,"body":"together and they gather up points."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2878.725,"endTime":2882.415,"body":"So the idea in the app is you get"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2878.725,"endTime":2882.415,"body":"points based on how your player performs"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2882.415,"endTime":2886.575,"body":"according to this advanced algorithm,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2882.415,"endTime":2886.575,"body":"and they can actually see and she 's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2886.605,"endTime":2890.095,"body":"sitting there like telling me who the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2886.605,"endTime":2890.095,"body":"best central midfielders are and why"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2890.095,"endTime":2891.925,"body":"their ball distribution is perfect."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2892.135,"endTime":2896.695,"body":"All of these sorts of stats, that many"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2892.135,"endTime":2896.695,"body":"fans, many hardcore fans, don't grasp,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2896.935,"endTime":2898.405,"body":"she's actually repeating back to me."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2898.825,"endTime":2902.485,"body":"And I think that, for me, that's an"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2898.825,"endTime":2902.485,"body":"evaluation of performance - to link back"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2902.485,"endTime":2906.925,"body":"to what I said at the start is that if"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2902.485,"endTime":2906.925,"body":"you can get somebody engaged in that way,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2907.93,"endTime":2912.07,"body":"in watching football in a different way,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2907.93,"endTime":2912.07,"body":"then you've actually achieved something."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2912.715,"endTime":2915.115,"body":"That's a fantastic story"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2912.715,"endTime":2915.115,"body":"because I think, and I don't think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2915.115,"endTime":2919.315,"body":"everyone agrees with this unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2915.115,"endTime":2919.315,"body":"but the more people that are exposed"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2919.315,"endTime":2922.405,"body":"to a sport, let's say you're a football"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2919.315,"endTime":2922.405,"body":"purist and you want everyone to enjoy"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2922.405,"endTime":2924.985,"body":"it, I mean, it doesn't really matter"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2922.405,"endTime":2924.985,"body":"how they enjoy it as long as they"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2924.985,"endTime":2926.749,"body":"enjoy it in some way, shape or form."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2926.749,"endTime":2928.789,"body":"And I think that's a good example of that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2929.209,"endTime":2932.809,"body":"This also reminds me, what you said"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2929.209,"endTime":2932.809,"body":"at the start, of an episode we had"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2932.809,"endTime":2937.189,"body":"earlier this season talking about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2932.809,"endTime":2937.189,"body":"the strategy of a teams structure"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2937.219,"endTime":2939.199,"body":"versus fitting it around personnel."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2939.249,"endTime":2942.879,"body":"You got me thinking a little bit, they're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2939.249,"endTime":2942.879,"body":"saying that a data person, whatever"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2942.879,"endTime":2946.489,"body":"that might be termed, is inherent to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2942.879,"endTime":2946.489,"body":"the structure of a football department."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2946.892,"endTime":2950.192,"body":"And I quite liked that because again,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2946.892,"endTime":2950.192,"body":"yeah, if we do consider the football"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2950.192,"endTime":2954.842,"body":"department as a complex system, it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2950.192,"endTime":2954.842,"body":"basically is impossible for us to evaluate"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2954.842,"endTime":2958.172,"body":"them and then take that piece out that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2954.842,"endTime":2958.172,"body":"they had, or the influence that they"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":2958.172,"endTime":2959.732,"body":"had, on performance, so I like that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2960.102,"endTime":2961.922,"body":"Well I want to elaborate"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2960.102,"endTime":2961.922,"body":"on that because that's something I've"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2961.922,"endTime":2966.192,"body":"been thinking about a lot, and what I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2961.922,"endTime":2966.192,"body":"got asked a lot to do at Hammerby and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2966.212,"endTime":2970.592,"body":"what I'm asked to do a lot in other"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2966.212,"endTime":2970.592,"body":"roles that I've had, is to evaluate"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2970.592,"endTime":2973.802,"body":"things, is to say how good something is."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2973.802,"endTime":2978.422,"body":"And I really believe that that's sort"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2973.802,"endTime":2978.422,"body":"of intrinsically impossible and that's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2978.422,"endTime":2982.502,"body":"what you learn in academia, that you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2978.422,"endTime":2982.502,"body":"just can't evaluate things like that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2983.012,"endTime":2986.627,"body":"And so you're asked to do something"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2983.012,"endTime":2986.627,"body":"intrinsically impossible, and so what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2986.627,"endTime":2990.217,"body":"then happens is academics and people with"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2986.627,"endTime":2990.217,"body":"actual training in this, they're kind of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2990.217,"endTime":2991.687,"body":"like, well we'll just leave them to it."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2991.957,"endTime":2995.797,"body":"And you get all of these sorts of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2991.957,"endTime":2995.797,"body":"bullshit artists who come in and sell"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2995.797,"endTime":3000.317,"body":"the clubs these ridiculous performance"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":2995.797,"endTime":3000.317,"body":"products or something like that, which"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3000.717,"endTime":3005.187,"body":"tell them some number or some kind"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3000.717,"endTime":3005.187,"body":"of thing, and then they go away and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3005.187,"endTime":3006.417,"body":"they base their decisions on that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3006.417,"endTime":3008.067,"body":"Or they don't base"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3006.417,"endTime":3008.067,"body":"their decisions on that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3008.677,"endTime":3012.927,"body":"I've found that quite depressing actually,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3008.677,"endTime":3012.927,"body":"when I see the alternatives, instead of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3013.191,"endTime":3017.926,"body":"trying to get someone embedded and trying"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3013.191,"endTime":3017.926,"body":"to work in detail with the particular"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3017.926,"endTime":3023.446,"body":"problem, you end up with this kind of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3017.926,"endTime":3023.446,"body":"not very good management tools that come"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3023.446,"endTime":3027.886,"body":"in from above and don't help anybody"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3023.446,"endTime":3027.886,"body":"and take a lot of money away from the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3027.886,"endTime":3030.856,"body":"football club into pointless products."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3031.836,"endTime":3034.876,"body":"I've come out quite strong on"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3031.836,"endTime":3034.876,"body":"that one, but that's a lot of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3034.876,"endTime":3038.082,"body":"my impression of working inside"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3034.876,"endTime":3038.082,"body":"professional football, unfortunately."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3038.596,"endTime":3040.506,"body":"I'll ask, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3038.596,"endTime":3040.506,"body":"and maybe you think about this while"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3040.506,"endTime":3043.726,"body":"I say something else, but I mean,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3040.506,"endTime":3043.726,"body":"why you think that might be the case?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3043.756,"endTime":3046.809,"body":"I've seen the same as well, and I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3043.756,"endTime":3046.809,"body":"it's fine to be strong on it because I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3047.149,"endTime":3050.109,"body":"would a hundred percent agree, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3047.149,"endTime":3050.109,"body":"sure some of the listeners would as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3050.441,"endTime":3053.756,"body":"But the point I wanted to make to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3050.441,"endTime":3053.756,"body":"supplement that would be, and there is"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3053.756,"endTime":3057.806,"body":"some research on this, around the length"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3053.756,"endTime":3057.806,"body":"of tenure of managers, not so much of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3057.806,"endTime":3062.021,"body":"staff, but the negative or potentially"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3057.806,"endTime":3062.021,"body":"negative effects that can have on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3062.021,"endTime":3063.851,"body":"performance, at least in the short term."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3064.475,"endTime":3068.315,"body":"But it bugs me a little bit that a lot"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3064.475,"endTime":3068.315,"body":"of staff don't get enough time either."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3068.345,"endTime":3072.474,"body":"And when they, particularly, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3068.345,"endTime":3072.474,"body":"emphasis is so short-term as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3072.504,"endTime":3075.464,"body":"Some of the things we talked"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3072.504,"endTime":3075.464,"body":"about earlier require time."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3076.574,"endTime":3080.354,"body":"They require time and not just time"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3076.574,"endTime":3080.354,"body":"full stop, but time in someone's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3080.354,"endTime":3082.784,"body":"work schedule to be able to go"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3080.354,"endTime":3082.784,"body":"and think about those things."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3083.474,"endTime":3086.834,"body":"So why do you think that managers"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3083.474,"endTime":3086.834,"body":"or decision-makers, let's say, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3087.074,"endTime":3090.134,"body":"probably not so much just managers,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3087.074,"endTime":3090.134,"body":"but decision-makers fall for that?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3091.214,"endTime":3093.814,"body":"Is it just like everyone else that we"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3091.214,"endTime":3093.814,"body":"just fall for the glitz and glamour?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3094.254,"endTime":3096.164,"body":"I don't think it's the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3094.254,"endTime":3096.164,"body":"managers that fall for that because"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3096.164,"endTime":3099.974,"body":"the managers don't get much input"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3096.164,"endTime":3099.974,"body":"on these types of things typically."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3100.394,"endTime":3104.054,"body":"The short life of managers is"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3100.394,"endTime":3104.054,"body":"also an interesting question."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3104.264,"endTime":3108.884,"body":"One reflection I have on that is that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3104.264,"endTime":3108.884,"body":"being a manager of a football team is"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3108.884,"endTime":3115.454,"body":"just an incredibly tough job and you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3108.884,"endTime":3115.454,"body":"just have to work so hard, with such"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3115.454,"endTime":3119.984,"body":"intense expectations of you, that I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3115.454,"endTime":3119.984,"body":"can imagine that some managers are"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3119.984,"endTime":3124.834,"body":"kind of happy when they get sacked and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3119.984,"endTime":3124.834,"body":"find another challenge and can just"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3124.834,"endTime":3126.514,"body":"take a breather and do something else."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3126.844,"endTime":3129.454,"body":"So that's one reflection"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3126.844,"endTime":3129.454,"body":"I have on that particular."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3130.354,"endTime":3131.974,"body":"I think that's a very specific role."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3131.974,"endTime":3135.774,"body":"We often, in the media anyway, we"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3131.974,"endTime":3135.774,"body":"get focused on the manager, but often"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3135.774,"endTime":3141.094,"body":"the staff at a club do have longer"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3135.774,"endTime":3141.094,"body":"tenures to manage to achieve things."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3141.394,"endTime":3144.244,"body":"So I'm not quite sure, I've never"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3141.394,"endTime":3144.244,"body":"quite solved that manager thing."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3144.244,"endTime":3147.994,"body":"On the one hand, it might be a good idea"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3144.244,"endTime":3147.994,"body":"to have a longer time with a manager,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3148.234,"endTime":3151.684,"body":"but on the other time, the pressure on"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3148.234,"endTime":3151.684,"body":"that particular individual, it should"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3151.684,"endTime":3153.754,"body":"be actually a rotating scheme, I think."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3154.174,"endTime":3157.444,"body":"Within a club they should have sort of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3154.174,"endTime":3157.444,"body":"10 people and everyone should take a"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3157.444,"endTime":3160.684,"body":"turn - maybe even the data scientists can"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3157.444,"endTime":3160.684,"body":"have a go at being the manager for a bit."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3161.054,"endTime":3164.224,"body":"Anyway, no I'm getting a bit carried away."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3164.474,"endTime":3168.874,"body":"But so that manager thing isn't quite"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3164.474,"endTime":3168.874,"body":"the problem, but the performance bit that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3168.874,"endTime":3173.929,"body":"I mentioned, I think that's just a sort"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3168.874,"endTime":3173.929,"body":"of, I don't know if it's a kind of modern"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3174.734,"endTime":3179.294,"body":"problem that we have this idea - I've"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3174.734,"endTime":3179.294,"body":"been writing about this actually for the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3179.294,"endTime":3182.774,"body":"Barcelona Innovation Hub, it will come out"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3179.294,"endTime":3182.774,"body":"later in the year - but if you think back"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3182.774,"endTime":3188.594,"body":"to the whole Kahneman idea of class one"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3182.774,"endTime":3188.594,"body":"and class two thinking, now that book and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3188.594,"endTime":3192.724,"body":"that research tells you a lot of different"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3188.594,"endTime":3192.724,"body":"messages, but how it's read by the public"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3193.144,"endTime":3196.714,"body":"is that there's this class one irrational"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3193.144,"endTime":3196.714,"body":"thinking, and that's the sort of thing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3196.714,"endTime":3200.824,"body":"that football players and football"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3196.714,"endTime":3200.824,"body":"managers do, and there's this class two"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3201.004,"endTime":3204.154,"body":"rational thinking, and that's the sort"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3201.004,"endTime":3204.154,"body":"of thing that management consultants do."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3204.634,"endTime":3207.214,"body":"And what we need to do is get rid"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3204.634,"endTime":3207.214,"body":"of the class one thinking, and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3207.214,"endTime":3208.544,"body":"we get in the class two thinkers."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3209.304,"endTime":3212.379,"body":"And so then they are the people who are"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3209.304,"endTime":3212.379,"body":"then offering those products to the club,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3212.669,"endTime":3216.899,"body":"but actually these class one thinkers,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3212.669,"endTime":3216.899,"body":"the people who are doing this kind of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3216.899,"endTime":3221.639,"body":"intuitive thinking, that's based on years"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3216.899,"endTime":3221.639,"body":"of experience and it's based on being out"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3221.639,"endTime":3223.679,"body":"there and actively part of the system."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3224.159,"endTime":3227.069,"body":"And so it's not really true that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3224.159,"endTime":3227.069,"body":"we should just throw away all of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3227.069,"endTime":3231.449,"body":"that class one stuff and bring in"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3227.069,"endTime":3231.449,"body":"these kinds of class two thinkers."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3231.899,"endTime":3236.399,"body":"And the way it Kahneman is portrayed, and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3231.899,"endTime":3236.399,"body":"partly this is his own fault, but partly"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3236.399,"endTime":3241.589,"body":"it's the fault of the way it's being read,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3236.399,"endTime":3241.589,"body":"is that we should take in these kind of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3241.619,"endTime":3246.869,"body":"intellectuals, management, statistic,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3241.619,"endTime":3246.869,"body":"people from outside and employ logic on"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3246.869,"endTime":3249.029,"body":"it, and that's not where I'm at at all."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3249.029,"endTime":3252.269,"body":"Where I'm at is that we should put"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3249.029,"endTime":3252.269,"body":"those types of people, because there"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3252.269,"endTime":3257.219,"body":"is value in that type of thinking, but"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3252.269,"endTime":3257.219,"body":"we should put it within the intuitive"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3257.579,"endTime":3262.159,"body":"understanding that we already have of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3257.579,"endTime":3262.159,"body":"the world and use those people in there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3262.869,"endTime":3265.639,"body":"Yeah and I think I've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3262.869,"endTime":3265.639,"body":"commented on this before on the show even,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3265.639,"endTime":3270.049,"body":"but the couple of things that come to mind"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3265.639,"endTime":3270.049,"body":"with that work is that the reliability"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3270.359,"endTime":3275.629,"body":"of that experience being matched with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3270.359,"endTime":3275.629,"body":"the objective, so to speak, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3275.809,"endTime":3278.889,"body":"using inverted commas there because"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3275.809,"endTime":3278.889,"body":"of course, how objective is it really?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3279.154,"endTime":3283.804,"body":"But again, all of that matching over"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3279.154,"endTime":3283.804,"body":"time to work out what's reliable,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3284.074,"endTime":3287.134,"body":"what's systematic differences"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3284.074,"endTime":3287.134,"body":"versus random differences,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3287.164,"endTime":3288.424,"body":"these things take time as well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3288.424,"endTime":3292.594,"body":"And all of this points back towards"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3288.424,"endTime":3292.594,"body":"needing people to spend some time"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3292.594,"endTime":3295.414,"body":"together to understand how they"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3292.594,"endTime":3295.414,"body":"work, those mental models they have."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3295.504,"endTime":3299.037,"body":"I think it all points to not sacking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3295.504,"endTime":3299.037,"body":"a manager after three months,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3299.097,"endTime":3300.387,"body":"unless they're very, very bad."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3300.587,"endTime":3304.967,"body":"In my book 'Outnumbered' I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3300.587,"endTime":3304.967,"body":"wrote a little bit about this particular"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3305.057,"endTime":3309.167,"body":"problem of human decision-making versus"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3305.057,"endTime":3309.167,"body":"algorithmic decision-making and I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3309.167,"endTime":3310.647,"body":"also wrote  about it in Soccermatics."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3310.717,"endTime":3314.587,"body":"The one I wrote about in Soccermatics was"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3310.717,"endTime":3314.587,"body":"if you're predicting the league positions"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3314.587,"endTime":3320.652,"body":"next year, and it turns out basically"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3314.587,"endTime":3320.652,"body":"using previous seasons' positions,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3320.672,"endTime":3324.422,"body":"so if I took the Premier League, if I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3320.672,"endTime":3324.422,"body":"say that my prediction for next season"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3324.422,"endTime":3328.142,"body":"is Manchester City or Man United will"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3324.422,"endTime":3328.142,"body":"come second, Liverpool, I didn't know"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3328.142,"endTime":3331.732,"body":"Liverpool came third, my son informed"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3328.142,"endTime":3331.732,"body":"me of this yesterday, I watched the and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3331.802,"endTime":3334.232,"body":"I was very excited that we got to the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3331.802,"endTime":3334.232,"body":"Champions League but actually Liverpool"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3334.232,"endTime":3338.642,"body":"got third, and then Chelsea fourth,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3334.232,"endTime":3338.642,"body":"those will be the positions next season."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3338.722,"endTime":3343.262,"body":"And that kind of intuitive prediction"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3338.722,"endTime":3343.262,"body":"of what will happen next season."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3343.532,"endTime":3346.412,"body":"All of the stuff that people are"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3343.532,"endTime":3346.412,"body":"putting on and all of the models,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3346.412,"endTime":3351.122,"body":"which are kind of around that, they"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3346.412,"endTime":3351.122,"body":"add a lot of unnecessary complexity,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3351.362,"endTime":3354.692,"body":"but they don't tend to make any better"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3351.362,"endTime":3354.692,"body":"predictions than that basic thing."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3355.022,"endTime":3358.112,"body":"And that's what you see for League"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3355.022,"endTime":3358.112,"body":"prediction, but that's what you see"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3358.112,"endTime":3362.372,"body":"in a lot of the ways that people can"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3358.112,"endTime":3362.372,"body":"make predictions about the future,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3362.372,"endTime":3366.122,"body":"that you can't actually improve"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3362.372,"endTime":3366.122,"body":"things very much using algorithms."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3366.392,"endTime":3370.172,"body":"And so when you hear somebody telling"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3366.392,"endTime":3370.172,"body":"you that they have this algorithm"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3370.172,"endTime":3373.412,"body":"that will tell you the future of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3370.172,"endTime":3373.412,"body":"your football club, then you have"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3373.412,"endTime":3374.902,"body":"to be very suspicious of that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3375.742,"endTime":3379.412,"body":"I definitely agree with"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3375.742,"endTime":3379.412,"body":"that, but I'm not going to be concrete"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3379.412,"endTime":3383.132,"body":"on algorithms not being able to improve"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3379.412,"endTime":3383.132,"body":"things at all, but I think the way"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3383.132,"endTime":3386.672,"body":"that we measure the world around us in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3383.132,"endTime":3386.672,"body":"terms of the quality of those measures,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3387.182,"endTime":3390.182,"body":"and indeed, perhaps the volume in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3387.182,"endTime":3390.182,"body":"some cases is going to have a bigger"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3390.182,"endTime":3391.872,"body":"impact, at least in the short term."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3392.272,"endTime":3394.792,"body":"I suppose I want to go"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3392.272,"endTime":3394.792,"body":"back and be clear that, of course, I think"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3394.792,"endTime":3399.562,"body":"the algorithms are useful, but it comes"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3394.792,"endTime":3399.562,"body":"back to exactly what analytics should be."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3399.562,"endTime":3404.722,"body":"Analytics should be a model of collective"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3399.562,"endTime":3404.722,"body":"interactions and how they produce"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3404.752,"endTime":3408.562,"body":"outcomes, and that model should be"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3404.752,"endTime":3408.562,"body":"something which everyone has contributed"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3408.562,"endTime":3413.242,"body":"to, everyone can build up an understanding"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3408.562,"endTime":3413.242,"body":"of, and that we can use together,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3413.482,"endTime":3417.262,"body":"rather than a prediction of where"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3413.482,"endTime":3417.262,"body":"we will be one year into the future."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3417.262,"endTime":3419.762,"body":"So that's the bit, I'm more skeptical of."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3419.942,"endTime":3424.037,"body":"The use of models in football, of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3419.942,"endTime":3424.037,"body":"course I'm all sold on, that's what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3424.037,"endTime":3425.227,"body":"you've got me here talking about."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3425.911,"endTime":3426.391,"body":"Correct."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3426.871,"endTime":3431.701,"body":"I recorded an episode last week with a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3426.871,"endTime":3431.701,"body":"colleague on complexity and you might've"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3431.701,"endTime":3436.051,"body":"seen this work, it's on the visual"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3431.701,"endTime":3436.051,"body":"language of complexity, it's out of a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3436.051,"endTime":3441.124,"body":"centre in the UK actually, and it boils"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3436.051,"endTime":3441.124,"body":"complexity down to 16 features, which"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3441.334,"endTime":3447.194,"body":"in and of themselves are quite large,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3441.334,"endTime":3447.194,"body":"so things like emergence and tipping"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3447.194,"endTime":3449.414,"body":"points, hubs and levers change over time."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3449.846,"endTime":3453.396,"body":"The difficulty I have with this, and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3449.846,"endTime":3453.396,"body":"plenty of people have commented on it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3453.676,"endTime":3458.936,"body":"already, is as our understanding or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3453.676,"endTime":3458.936,"body":"at least our recognition of complexity"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3458.936,"endTime":3464.416,"body":"grows in football, so too we kind of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3458.936,"endTime":3464.416,"body":"paradoxically become further away from"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3464.416,"endTime":3468.871,"body":"a working model of it, I find, unless"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3464.416,"endTime":3468.871,"body":"we find some tools to, not so much"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3468.931,"endTime":3471.901,"body":"reduce the complexity, but make it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3468.931,"endTime":3471.901,"body":"more interpretable for the end user."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3472.351,"endTime":3475.021,"body":"And so I think that's a really tricky"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3472.351,"endTime":3475.021,"body":"thing that analysts are going to face."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3475.681,"endTime":3479.521,"body":"Let's say a manager tomorrow comes in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3475.681,"endTime":3479.521,"body":"and says, yep, I'm on board with you,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3479.521,"endTime":3483.241,"body":"I understand and I agree that it's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3479.521,"endTime":3483.241,"body":"complex system, now give me some tools,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3483.541,"endTime":3485.521,"body":"some simple tools, to navigate this."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3485.521,"endTime":3488.821,"body":"And I know there is work done in that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3485.521,"endTime":3488.821,"body":"space, but I think it's a tricky question."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3488.821,"endTime":3491.731,"body":"Like how much do you reduce"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3488.821,"endTime":3491.731,"body":"before the complexity is no longer"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3491.731,"endTime":3493.051,"body":"complex or it's no longer there?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3493.351,"endTime":3497.951,"body":"That's a really good"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3493.351,"endTime":3497.951,"body":"question for me because that is precisely"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3497.971,"endTime":3499.591,"body":"what we do as applied mathematicians."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3499.711,"endTime":3505.201,"body":"So you hear all of the time philosophers"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3499.711,"endTime":3505.201,"body":"or psychologists or something telling"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3505.201,"endTime":3508.381,"body":"us, oh it's all a complex system, it's"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3505.201,"endTime":3508.381,"body":"all a complex system, you can't do this"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3508.381,"endTime":3511.081,"body":"because it's a complex system, you can't"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3508.381,"endTime":3511.081,"body":"do that because it's a complex system."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3511.621,"endTime":3516.271,"body":"And that I think, this is quite"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3511.621,"endTime":3516.271,"body":"arrogant of me, but that I think is"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3516.421,"endTime":3518.611,"body":"what the applied mathematician does do."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3519.271,"endTime":3523.891,"body":"He or she does provide tools for"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3519.271,"endTime":3523.891,"body":"dealing with complexity, and to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3523.891,"endTime":3527.971,"body":"go back to the five second rule"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3523.891,"endTime":3527.971,"body":"example, that was one of them."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3528.301,"endTime":3529.411,"body":"Let me give another one."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3529.601,"endTime":3533.101,"body":"This comes from Vosse"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3529.601,"endTime":3533.101,"body":"de Boode's work at Ajax."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3533.581,"endTime":3538.751,"body":"What she did is the team they have"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3533.581,"endTime":3538.751,"body":"to play Champions League games and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3538.751,"endTime":3543.351,"body":"they have to play the Eredivisie,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3538.751,"endTime":3543.351,"body":"the Dutch first division games."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3543.401,"endTime":3545.291,"body":"You pronounced"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3543.401,"endTime":3545.291,"body":"that better than I did."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3545.911,"endTime":3550.881,"body":"And what they found is"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3545.911,"endTime":3550.881,"body":"that the tempo in the Champions League"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3550.971,"endTime":3555.831,"body":"is much higher than the tempo in the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3550.971,"endTime":3555.831,"body":"Dutch League, and they're playing all"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3555.831,"endTime":3558.941,"body":"these games at the lower tempo and then"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3555.831,"endTime":3558.941,"body":"they have to move up to the higher tempo."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3559.461,"endTime":3565.281,"body":"And so what she did is she filmed the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3559.461,"endTime":3565.281,"body":"two games and she sped up their training"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3565.281,"endTime":3570.561,"body":"session games to Champions League level,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3565.281,"endTime":3570.561,"body":"their games in the Dutch First Division"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3570.561,"endTime":3573.801,"body":"up to the champions league level, and she"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3570.561,"endTime":3573.801,"body":"compared it to a Champions League level"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3573.801,"endTime":3577.251,"body":"game, and she showed it to the players"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3573.801,"endTime":3577.251,"body":"so they could actually see that their"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3577.251,"endTime":3582.171,"body":"training was only 20% as fast as what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3577.251,"endTime":3582.171,"body":"was going on in the Champions League."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3582.801,"endTime":3586.101,"body":"There's not much mathematics in there,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3582.801,"endTime":3586.101,"body":"but there's a complex systems way of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3586.101,"endTime":3589.701,"body":"thinking, which says, we have this"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3586.101,"endTime":3589.701,"body":"problem to do with passing tempo,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3590.001,"endTime":3591.411,"body":"how are we going to communicate it?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3591.411,"endTime":3595.011,"body":"And she used the video sped up at"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3591.411,"endTime":3595.011,"body":"different levels so she could do it, and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3595.011,"endTime":3597.036,"body":"then she took this through the whole club."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3597.036,"endTime":3600.156,"body":"So she takes it down to the under"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3597.036,"endTime":3600.156,"body":"nineteens and said, if you played"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3600.156,"endTime":3604.026,"body":"like the men's first team in the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3600.156,"endTime":3604.026,"body":"Dutch Division this is the tempo"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3604.026,"endTime":3605.046,"body":"that you would be playing at."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3605.176,"endTime":3609.466,"body":"And they can see that and they think,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3605.176,"endTime":3609.466,"body":"right, that's the tempo I have to get to."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3610.096,"endTime":3613.426,"body":"And she is the perfect example"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3610.096,"endTime":3613.426,"body":"of somebody embedded in."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3613.426,"endTime":3616.016,"body":"She did a great study of it, you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3613.426,"endTime":3616.016,"body":"should watch this on the Friends of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3616.016,"endTime":3619.446,"body":"Tracking , you should have her on as"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3616.016,"endTime":3619.446,"body":"well and talk about this because..."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3619.766,"endTime":3620.706,"body":"She is on the list!"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3621.006,"endTime":3622.686,"body":"Another"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3621.006,"endTime":3622.686,"body":"example was penalties."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3623.596,"endTime":3627.006,"body":"There's a lot of game theoretic papers"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3623.596,"endTime":3627.006,"body":"written about penalties and Google"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3627.006,"endTime":3631.236,"body":"have had a go at penalties, and yeah,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3627.006,"endTime":3631.236,"body":"that's all very well and good, but"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3631.236,"endTime":3635.316,"body":"what she actually did is they filmed"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3631.236,"endTime":3635.316,"body":"what the goalkeeper was looking at"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3635.856,"endTime":3640.896,"body":"when a penalty was taken and then how"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3635.856,"endTime":3640.896,"body":"successful the goalkeeper was at saving"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3640.896,"endTime":3645.636,"body":"those penalties, and they found that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3640.896,"endTime":3645.636,"body":"if the goalkeeper looked at the foot of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3645.666,"endTime":3651.006,"body":"the penalty taker, then the goalkeeper"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3645.666,"endTime":3651.006,"body":"would not save the penalty as often."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3651.756,"endTime":3653.646,"body":"And so that was the first observation."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3653.646,"endTime":3656.046,"body":"And then this, I think"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3653.646,"endTime":3656.046,"body":"this is the genius, right?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3656.046,"endTime":3659.886,"body":"So what they did is they"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3656.046,"endTime":3659.886,"body":"built a wall up to the ball."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3659.886,"endTime":3664.146,"body":"So when the penalty taker was running"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3659.886,"endTime":3664.146,"body":"up to the ball, the goalkeeper couldn't"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3664.146,"endTime":3669.276,"body":"see the penalty taker, then they got"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3664.146,"endTime":3669.276,"body":"the goalkeeper to train in that way."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3669.486,"endTime":3672.786,"body":"So the goalkeeper could never see the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3669.486,"endTime":3672.786,"body":"penalty taker and the goalkeeper got a"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3672.786,"endTime":3675.006,"body":"much more intense training in that way."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3675.096,"endTime":3676.656,"body":"It was much more difficult."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3677.196,"endTime":3682.876,"body":"Plus, the goalkeeper learned to focus on"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3677.196,"endTime":3682.876,"body":"what was important, which was the ball in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3683.369,"endTime":3685.339,"body":"Hmm, and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3683.369,"endTime":3685.339,"body":"think Geir Jordey in Norway"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3685.363,"endTime":3686.503,"body":"has done some similar work."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3686.533,"endTime":3689.683,"body":"And I think the example you gave"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3686.533,"endTime":3689.683,"body":"then is a perfect one, again, of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3689.683,"endTime":3695.263,"body":"commonality of individuals working in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3689.683,"endTime":3695.263,"body":"sport, recognising that is a complex"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3695.263,"endTime":3699.485,"body":"system, that you can perturb or alter"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3695.263,"endTime":3699.485,"body":"things in that system to create learning."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3699.485,"endTime":3704.285,"body":"And I happen to think that, personally,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3699.485,"endTime":3704.285,"body":"the biggest opportunity for analytics"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3704.285,"endTime":3707.795,"body":"in the short term is in the design"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3704.285,"endTime":3707.795,"body":"of learning environments for the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3708.005,"endTime":3711.185,"body":"athletes, and the two examples"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3708.005,"endTime":3711.185,"body":"you gave then are exactly those."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3711.185,"endTime":3715.04,"body":"I think the first, the skill learning"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3711.185,"endTime":3715.04,"body":"people would call representative design."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3715.05,"endTime":3719.75,"body":"So, which in simple terms is really,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3715.05,"endTime":3719.75,"body":"are you training how you play?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3720.05,"endTime":3723.519,"body":"And I think that's, in Vosse's particular"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3720.05,"endTime":3723.519,"body":"club, I think that's something that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3723.609,"endTime":3724.539,"body":"they're known for, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3724.539,"endTime":3727.749,"body":"All the way through their academy,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3724.539,"endTime":3727.749,"body":"that they have that specific way that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3727.749,"endTime":3729.089,"body":"they want to develop their athletes."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3729.139,"endTime":3729.489,"body":"Exactly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3730.099,"endTime":3731.919,"body":"Yeah, I mean, certainly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3730.099,"endTime":3731.919,"body":"they're a great example of that."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3732.299,"endTime":3733.679,"body":"They use"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3732.299,"endTime":3733.679,"body":"science in it as well."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3733.819,"endTime":3738.659,"body":"And one thing that I've been working"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3733.819,"endTime":3738.659,"body":"with a lot with players is, so now"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3738.659,"endTime":3742.229,"body":"those ones don't involve so much sort"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3738.659,"endTime":3742.229,"body":"of technical mathematics, but we use"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3742.229,"endTime":3746.479,"body":"a model called pitch control, which"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3742.229,"endTime":3746.479,"body":"shows who would get to the ball first"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3746.699,"endTime":3748.324,"body":"if the ball was dropped down randomly."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3748.324,"endTime":3753.094,"body":"And so it gives a nice kind of picture"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3748.324,"endTime":3753.094,"body":"of who controls what parts of the pitch."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3753.524,"endTime":3756.964,"body":"We also use the value of passes,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3753.524,"endTime":3756.964,"body":"and that's what we use in"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3756.964,"endTime":3758.254,"body":"the Twelve game, for example."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3758.284,"endTime":3760.314,"body":"How much value do you get"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3758.284,"endTime":3760.314,"body":"from a different pass?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3760.744,"endTime":3764.704,"body":"And these give different surfaces"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3760.744,"endTime":3764.704,"body":"that we can put onto a pitch and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3764.704,"endTime":3767.884,"body":"then what we do is we can actually"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3764.704,"endTime":3767.884,"body":"show these things to the players."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3768.454,"endTime":3771.604,"body":"So after they've been playing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3768.454,"endTime":3771.604,"body":"in a particular match, we take"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3771.604,"endTime":3772.984,"body":"in a small group of players."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3773.524,"endTime":3776.474,"body":"Maybe we take in all the forwards,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3773.524,"endTime":3776.474,"body":"if we were interested in goal-scoring"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3776.494,"endTime":3780.784,"body":"opportunities, we take in the forwards"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3776.494,"endTime":3780.784,"body":"and the left and the right wingers, and"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3780.784,"endTime":3784.734,"body":"we sit them in a room in a small group,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3780.784,"endTime":3784.734,"body":"so it was kind of learning experience,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3784.734,"endTime":3789.384,"body":"we put up on the screen and we show"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3784.734,"endTime":3789.384,"body":"first a particular situation, which"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3789.384,"endTime":3792.924,"body":"they were playing in in the recent"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3789.384,"endTime":3792.924,"body":"match, then we show them the pitch"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3792.924,"endTime":3796.974,"body":"control and the different value metrics"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3792.924,"endTime":3796.974,"body":"for those types of things, and then we"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3796.974,"endTime":3799.854,"body":"lead a discussion around those points."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3800.544,"endTime":3804.744,"body":"And what is fascinating for me"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3800.544,"endTime":3804.744,"body":"there is that they began to see."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3804.774,"endTime":3808.194,"body":"So we don't want to say that the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3804.774,"endTime":3808.194,"body":"pitch control is the absolute correct"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3808.194,"endTime":3811.809,"body":"answer, we want them to discuss,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3808.194,"endTime":3811.809,"body":"the typical thing is like should you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3811.809,"endTime":3813.129,"body":"have passed or should you have shot?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3813.549,"endTime":3815.829,"body":"Or you have two different"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3813.549,"endTime":3815.829,"body":"passing alternatives, which of"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3815.829,"endTime":3818.229,"body":"those two should you have taken?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3818.259,"endTime":3821.279,"body":"And we want them to discuss that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3818.259,"endTime":3821.279,"body":"thing, but after a bit they often"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3821.519,"endTime":3823.509,"body":"start saying like, show me the answer."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3823.809,"endTime":3827.949,"body":"This is a difficult thing is they want to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3823.809,"endTime":3827.949,"body":"know what the computer says, so they'll"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3827.949,"endTime":3829.409,"body":"discuss it first and then they'll say it."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3829.409,"endTime":3831.909,"body":"And then, yeah, maybe it will be like,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3829.409,"endTime":3831.909,"body":"you know, one of the players will be like,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3831.909,"endTime":3836.229,"body":"yeah, I told you so, something like this,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3831.909,"endTime":3836.229,"body":"but it's a really good tool I think for"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3836.229,"endTime":3840.819,"body":"having a discussion about the decisions"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3836.229,"endTime":3840.819,"body":"they've made, which becomes a lot more"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3840.819,"endTime":3845.829,"body":"neutral, in a sense, they are able to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3840.819,"endTime":3845.829,"body":"have it in a much better way than just"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3845.829,"endTime":3848.919,"body":"kind of arguing with each other about"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3845.829,"endTime":3848.919,"body":"should you have passed or shot there?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3849.249,"endTime":3850.119,"body":"Should you have passed to me?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3850.119,"endTime":3851.409,"body":"Should you have passed"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3850.119,"endTime":3851.409,"body":"to that other player?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3852.005,"endTime":3855.425,"body":"And of course the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3852.005,"endTime":3855.425,"body":"other great opportunity, and I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3855.425,"endTime":3858.605,"body":"analytics is part of this as well,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3855.425,"endTime":3858.605,"body":"the other great opportunity is in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3858.605,"endTime":3862.535,"body":"those learning sessions to evaluate,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3858.605,"endTime":3862.535,"body":"we'll use the word evaluate, but to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3863.005,"endTime":3867.0,"body":"determine perhaps, how much learning"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3863.005,"endTime":3867.0,"body":"they retain from a session like that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3867.03,"endTime":3870.12,"body":"Again, there's opportunities"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3867.03,"endTime":3870.12,"body":"everywhere for the analysis area."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3870.9,"endTime":3875.97,"body":"Now, before I let you go and get on"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3870.9,"endTime":3875.97,"body":"with your day, I wanted to finish on a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3876.23,"endTime":3879.8,"body":"futuristic note, as I often do on the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3876.23,"endTime":3879.8,"body":"show, and hopefully a positive one,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3880.075,"endTime":3881.445,"body":"and where will this head in future?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3881.775,"endTime":3884.415,"body":"I've been a little critical of an area"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3881.775,"endTime":3884.415,"body":"that I know you're interested in, and I"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3884.415,"endTime":3887.835,"body":"know it's not the only area that you're"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3884.415,"endTime":3887.835,"body":"interested in because we've spoken about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3887.818,"endTime":3891.238,"body":"many others today, but I think there's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3887.818,"endTime":3891.238,"body":"a bit of a preoccupation with tracking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3891.238,"endTime":3893.278,"body":"data at the moment in the football codes."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3893.878,"endTime":3897.318,"body":"I know we have spoken predominantly"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3893.878,"endTime":3897.318,"body":"about football today and there's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3897.318,"endTime":3900.785,"body":"whole heap of other sports that don't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3897.318,"endTime":3900.785,"body":"even have tracking data, and obviously"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3900.785,"endTime":3905.105,"body":"it's kind of an example of drilling"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3900.785,"endTime":3905.105,"body":"deeply down into a single area."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3905.105,"endTime":3908.135,"body":"There's a little bit of availability"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3905.105,"endTime":3908.135,"body":"bias there as well, it's a data source"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3908.135,"endTime":3912.725,"body":"that's readily available, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3908.135,"endTime":3912.725,"body":"require us to think outside the square"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3912.725,"endTime":3914.285,"body":"in terms of where our data's coming from."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3914.585,"endTime":3917.96,"body":"I'm being a little bit dismissive,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3914.585,"endTime":3917.96,"body":"of course, but there's probably other"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3917.99,"endTime":3921.74,"body":"equally interesting and maybe potentially"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3917.99,"endTime":3921.74,"body":"even more impactful areas as well,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3921.74,"endTime":3923.2,"body":"but where do you think it will head?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3923.2,"endTime":3924.94,"body":"Where would you like"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3923.2,"endTime":3924.94,"body":"it to head, this area?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3925.18,"endTime":3926.38,"body":"You can be as broad as you like."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3927.347,"endTime":3931.527,"body":"I'm interested in what your"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3927.347,"endTime":3931.527,"body":"specific criticism is of tracking data."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3931.527,"endTime":3936.157,"body":"You mean that it won't give as much as"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3931.527,"endTime":3936.157,"body":"we might have thought it would give, or?"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3936.307,"endTime":3937.407,"body":"No, I don't think that."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3937.617,"endTime":3940.077,"body":"I think it's probably going"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3937.617,"endTime":3940.077,"body":"to continue to give us things,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3940.077,"endTime":3942.597,"body":"although there'll be diminishing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3940.077,"endTime":3942.597,"body":"returns at some point, of course."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3943.017,"endTime":3948.042,"body":"I suppose, it's not so much the analyst's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3943.017,"endTime":3948.042,"body":"problem, it's perhaps more the fault"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3948.042,"endTime":3951.072,"body":"of the way that we've pigeonholed the"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3948.042,"endTime":3951.072,"body":"role and we've talked a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3951.072,"endTime":3954.755,"body":"that today, but things like, and I know"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3951.072,"endTime":3954.755,"body":"organisations do this, but when should"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3954.755,"endTime":3959.795,"body":"teams travel, the design of the training"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3954.755,"endTime":3959.795,"body":"sessions, injury is obviously a big one,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3959.825,"endTime":3967.375,"body":"but just questions that broadening our"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3959.825,"endTime":3967.375,"body":"remit, so to speak, creates more value and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3967.375,"endTime":3969.385,"body":"creates probably more jobs down the track."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3969.565,"endTime":3970.645,"body":"That's more what I mean."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3970.765,"endTime":3973.845,"body":"I mean, tracking data is fantastic and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3970.765,"endTime":3973.845,"body":"I don't think we have hit that high"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3973.845,"endTime":3977.075,"body":"point yet and, let's face it, it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3973.845,"endTime":3977.075,"body":"the closest thing to the game that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3977.075,"endTime":3979.708,"body":"people have and they're always going"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":3977.075,"endTime":3979.708,"body":"to be interested in it, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3979.708,"endTime":3982.208,"body":"No, I think I'm"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3979.708,"endTime":3982.208,"body":"just going to take your criticism"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3982.208,"endTime":3983.738,"body":"and say it's completely valid."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3983.978,"endTime":3985.538,"body":"That's what I'm interested in, right?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3986.738,"endTime":3991.148,"body":"It becomes very difficult to justify it,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3986.738,"endTime":3991.148,"body":"but I think what we found very quickly"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3991.568,"endTime":3996.038,"body":"when we started working within Hammerby,"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3991.568,"endTime":3996.038,"body":"that there were all sorts of questions"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3996.038,"endTime":3999.848,"body":"that had nothing to do with tracking"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3996.038,"endTime":3999.848,"body":"data that we needed to address first"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":3999.938,"endTime":4001.768,"body":"in setting up an analytics department."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4002.158,"endTime":4007.018,"body":"And I think that you're absolutely"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4002.158,"endTime":4007.018,"body":"right, that tracking data is not the"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4007.018,"endTime":4011.128,"body":"first one, the first thing that you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4007.018,"endTime":4011.128,"body":"need to deal with, and you can deal"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4011.128,"endTime":4012.988,"body":"with a lot without tracking data."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4013.678,"endTime":4014.518,"body":"So where's the future?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4014.548,"endTime":4017.038,"body":"I mean, I'm really bad at"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4014.548,"endTime":4017.038,"body":"this future question, right?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4017.038,"endTime":4021.448,"body":"So I think we used to get this when"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4017.038,"endTime":4021.448,"body":"I ran a research group and looking at"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4021.748,"endTime":4026.983,"body":"birds and fish and ants and so on, I"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4021.748,"endTime":4026.983,"body":"remember a postdoc started in our group"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4027.553,"endTime":4030.423,"body":"and he was like, \"Oh, what's the really"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4027.553,"endTime":4030.423,"body":"big questions that you're working on?\""},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4030.423,"endTime":4032.973,"body":"You know, \"The other group leaders"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4030.423,"endTime":4032.973,"body":"they told me about these brilliant"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4032.973,"endTime":4035.763,"body":"things, and this is going to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4032.973,"endTime":4035.763,"body":"be the future\", or whatever."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4036.303,"endTime":4038.553,"body":"And like, that's not what I do."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4038.553,"endTime":4039.903,"body":"That's not what I'm interested in."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4039.903,"endTime":4043.833,"body":"What I'm interested in is a problem"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4039.903,"endTime":4043.833,"body":"comes in, somebody says we have to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4043.833,"endTime":4047.493,"body":"get the ball back in five seconds, or"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4043.833,"endTime":4047.493,"body":"we've got to get better at penalties."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4047.763,"endTime":4052.263,"body":"A problem comes in and we find"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4047.763,"endTime":4052.263,"body":"a solution to that problem."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4052.473,"endTime":4056.403,"body":"And it's very difficult in that"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4052.473,"endTime":4056.403,"body":"framework to say what the future holds."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4056.773,"endTime":4059.283,"body":"It's more like, you know, as soon as you"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4056.773,"endTime":4059.283,"body":"start talking about your traveling to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4059.283,"endTime":4062.523,"body":"matches and the effect of those types"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4059.283,"endTime":4062.523,"body":"of things, should you get the sleep?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4062.613,"endTime":4065.553,"body":"I just start, like, thinking"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4062.613,"endTime":4065.553,"body":"what could we actually do to try"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4065.553,"endTime":4066.873,"body":"and solve that type of problem?"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4067.203,"endTime":4069.423,"body":"So I don't really have"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4067.203,"endTime":4069.423,"body":"any good things about..."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4069.423,"endTime":4075.268,"body":"The future I hope is that people like"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4069.423,"endTime":4075.268,"body":"me are embedded within, not just in"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4075.268,"endTime":4079.108,"body":"football, but all sorts of organisations"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4075.268,"endTime":4079.108,"body":"where they can be much more involved with"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4079.108,"endTime":4083.218,"body":"the daily running of the things rather"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4079.108,"endTime":4083.218,"body":"than giving performance measurements."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4083.548,"endTime":4086.368,"body":"The point is that it's each"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4083.548,"endTime":4086.368,"body":"problem that's interesting."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4086.438,"endTime":4090.358,"body":"A problem comes up and you want to"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4086.438,"endTime":4090.358,"body":"solve it, and that is kind of what"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4090.358,"endTime":4092.968,"body":"drives me forward and I suppose"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4090.358,"endTime":4092.968,"body":"that's what I'll still be doing"},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4093.028,"endTime":4094.468,"body":"right up until the day I retire."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4095.036,"endTime":4096.356,"body":"It's a"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4095.036,"endTime":4096.356,"body":"nice position to be in."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4097.026,"endTime":4099.746,"body":"I think you've answered it"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4097.026,"endTime":4099.746,"body":"in a different way there."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4099.746,"endTime":4103.946,"body":"I mean, I think there's all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4099.746,"endTime":4103.946,"body":"people that do future scenarios exercises,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4103.946,"endTime":4107.966,"body":"it's almost not so much what analytics"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4103.946,"endTime":4107.966,"body":"looks like, it's almost what football"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4107.966,"endTime":4109.426,"body":"looks like or what a sport looks like."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4109.426,"endTime":4113.646,"body":"And then are you prepared, or are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4109.426,"endTime":4113.646,"body":"you preparing a workforce, or are you"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4113.646,"endTime":4116.916,"body":"preparing a mental state even, to handle"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4113.646,"endTime":4116.916,"body":"those questions, which is more what"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4116.916,"endTime":4120.243,"body":"you're referring to there, so  I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4116.916,"endTime":4120.243,"body":"you've still answered the question well."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4121.743,"endTime":4125.973,"body":"On that note, I'd like to thank you once"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4121.743,"endTime":4125.973,"body":"again, Professor David Sumpter for coming"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4125.973,"endTime":4126.963,"body":"on the show, it's been a real pleasure."},{"speaker":"David Sumpter","startTime":4127.303,"endTime":4127.973,"body":"Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4131.733,"endTime":4137.303,"body":"And now some final"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4131.733,"endTime":4137.303,"body":"thoughts on today's question."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4137.783,"endTime":4141.713,"body":"Whilst the definition of sports analytics"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4137.783,"endTime":4141.713,"body":"continues to be elusive, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4141.713,"endTime":4145.943,"body":"data infrastructure, streamlining"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4141.713,"endTime":4145.943,"body":"of processes, increasing objectivity"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4145.943,"endTime":4150.833,"body":"in decision-making, or deriving new"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4145.943,"endTime":4150.833,"body":"insights, its potential broad impact and"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4150.833,"endTime":4155.093,"body":"opportunity for inclusivity means that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4150.833,"endTime":4155.093,"body":"it will continue to experience growth."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4155.423,"endTime":4158.873,"body":"But at a higher level, it appears that"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4155.423,"endTime":4158.873,"body":"the impact of the sports analyst can be"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4158.873,"endTime":4161.473,"body":"much more fundamental to an organisation."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4162.168,"endTime":4166.518,"body":"Whether they're from data science,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4162.168,"endTime":4166.518,"body":"statistics, mathematics, physics, or"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4166.518,"endTime":4170.208,"body":"computer science, the analyst could"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4166.518,"endTime":4170.208,"body":"provide a shared language for viewing"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4170.208,"endTime":4174.288,"body":"problems across departments, by"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4170.208,"endTime":4174.288,"body":"communicating complex phenomena, and in"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4174.288,"endTime":4178.428,"body":"many cases, playing the role of conduit"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4174.288,"endTime":4178.428,"body":"between people from different backgrounds."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4178.758,"endTime":4182.808,"body":"This should mean that over time, such"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4178.758,"endTime":4182.808,"body":"roles move to becoming an inherent part"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4183.078,"endTime":4184.998,"body":"of the typical performance department."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4185.298,"endTime":4189.378,"body":"However, right now there is perhaps"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4185.298,"endTime":4189.378,"body":"too much being required from too few."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4189.828,"endTime":4193.938,"body":"It's simply not reasonable or sustainable"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4189.828,"endTime":4193.938,"body":"to expect the typical analyst to"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4193.938,"endTime":4197.738,"body":"spend their time across areas as"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4193.938,"endTime":4197.738,"body":"diverse as those just mentioned."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4198.128,"endTime":4200.228,"body":"There is also room for"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4198.128,"endTime":4200.228,"body":"improvement from within."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4200.948,"endTime":4204.788,"body":"As is the case with many fast-moving"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4200.948,"endTime":4204.788,"body":"areas, rigour and quality control"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4204.818,"endTime":4205.778,"body":"could fall by the wayside."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4206.528,"endTime":4210.098,"body":"And as we've spoken about on other"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4206.528,"endTime":4210.098,"body":"episodes of this show, the diversity"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4210.098,"endTime":4213.968,"body":"of individuals working in the area"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4210.098,"endTime":4213.968,"body":"still leaves a lot to be desired."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4214.388,"endTime":4217.328,"body":"But perhaps the most important"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4214.388,"endTime":4217.328,"body":"consideration in ensuring sports"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4217.328,"endTime":4221.618,"body":"analytics is as impactful as it can be"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4217.328,"endTime":4221.618,"body":"is to ensure that these individuals are"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4221.618,"endTime":4226.058,"body":"given time, not only time in their work"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4221.618,"endTime":4226.058,"body":"week, but in the length of their tenure."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4226.418,"endTime":4229.778,"body":"Without this, the long-term,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4226.418,"endTime":4229.778,"body":"innovative and high impact"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4229.778,"endTime":4231.928,"body":"benefits are unlikely to ensue."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4232.148,"endTime":4235.808,"body":"Whilst not every sports analyst will"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4232.148,"endTime":4235.808,"body":"or should be a visionary and innovator,"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4236.288,"endTime":4240.038,"body":"such a vote of confidence should mean"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4236.288,"endTime":4240.038,"body":"that sports analytics is not only"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4240.038,"endTime":4244.073,"body":"entrenched for the years to come, but"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4240.038,"endTime":4244.073,"body":"also is a key instigator in taking"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4244.073,"endTime":4245.783,"body":"sports performance to new levels."},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4246.233,"endTime":4249.333,"body":"I'm Sam Robertson and this"},{"speaker":"Sam Robertson","startTime":4246.233,"endTime":4249.333,"body":"has been One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4251.313,"endTime":4255.283,"body":"One Track mind is brought"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4251.313,"endTime":4255.283,"body":"to you by Track and Victoria University."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4255.643,"endTime":4258.913,"body":"Our host is Professor Sam"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4255.643,"endTime":4258.913,"body":"Robertson and our producer is"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4258.913,"endTime":4260.533,"body":"Lara Chan-Baker - that's me!"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4260.983,"endTime":4265.123,"body":"If you care about these issues as"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4260.983,"endTime":4265.123,"body":"much as we do, please support us by"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4265.123,"endTime":4269.113,"body":"subscribing, leaving a review on iTunes,"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4265.123,"endTime":4269.113,"body":"and recommending the show to a friend."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4269.413,"endTime":4272.163,"body":"It only takes a minute, but"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4269.413,"endTime":4272.163,"body":"it makes all the difference."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4272.573,"endTime":4275.598,"body":"If you want more where this"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4272.573,"endTime":4275.598,"body":"came from, follow us on Twitter"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4275.658,"endTime":4281.468,"body":"@trackvu, on Instagram @track.vu,"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4275.658,"endTime":4281.468,"body":"or just head to trackvu.com."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4282.038,"endTime":4284.348,"body":"While you're there, why not"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4282.038,"endTime":4284.348,"body":"sign up for our newsletter?"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4284.738,"endTime":4288.308,"body":"It's a regular dose of sports science"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4284.738,"endTime":4288.308,"body":"insights from our leading team of"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4288.308,"endTime":4291.728,"body":"researchers, with links to further"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4288.308,"endTime":4291.728,"body":"reading on each episode topic."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4292.238,"endTime":4294.608,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4292.238,"endTime":4294.608,"body":"listening to One Track Mind."},{"speaker":"Lara Chan-Baker","startTime":4294.878,"endTime":4296.018,"body":"We will see you soon."}]}