With All Wisdom
With All Wisdom
Episode #142: Food and False Religion
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In this final episode in a three part series, pastors Derek and Cliff consider how false religions are often characterized by food restrictions. They also discuss whether veganism can be squared with the Bible.
Welcome to the With All Wisdom Podcast, where we are applying biblical truth to everyday life. My name is Derek Brown, and I'm here today with Cliff McManus. We are both pastors and elders at Creekside Bible Church in Cupertino, California, and professors of theology at the Cornerstone Bible College and Seminary in Vallejo, California. And we are continuing our conversation about food. Who thought that it would take three podcasts? But this is a big topic, as we've seen already. We encourage you to check out those last two podcasts if you haven't already, those last two episodes. And we also encourage you to check out Withallwisdom.org, where we have a large and growing collection of resources all rooted in God's Word and aimed at helping you grow in spiritual maturity. Okay, let's get back to our topic. Cliff, where we left off was the issue of false religion. And the way Paul addresses it in the New Testament is that false religion is at least has as part of its element food restrictions. But that's not just in the New Testament. I mean, Paul, Paul is addressing probably at the time claims of uh of Christians, professing Christians, who are saying that you need to restrict your diet. But we see that kind of thing today, and I think it's really important to highlight for those Christians who are promoting certain diets, or Christians who are just confused about this, here's a really important point. All the false religions in the world, at least as far as I've seen, um, uh, they all have food restrictions. So a mark of false religion is food restrictions. You need to keep that in mind when you start attaching spiritual and religious significant significance to any kind of diet. Uh so, um, Cliff, now you had you had done some research on this. Can you kind of share with us what you picked up as you were going through these various religions and their their uh food restrictions?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you had mentioned, uh, and I totally agree with you, that one of the takeaways from what Paul's saying here about false religion and doctrines of demons is a mark of false religion will be they'll have a wrong view about food. And usually it's in the form of abstinence. Yeah. Abstaining.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01Which actually you mentioned Colossians 2 in our last episode, when Paul said in Colossians 2, um, therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink. And he calls this self-abasement. And then he goes on to call it in verse 20, the elementary principles of the world. This is false religion. And at the heart of a lot of false religion with practical matters is abstinence, because they think abstinence uh makes you holy. And this is at the heart of their overall doctrine, which is um earning favor with God by works righteousness. Yeah. You gotta do stuff to please God, you gotta do stuff to earn forgiveness, you gotta do stuff to get to heaven. And it's not just doing stuff, it's it's stuff you don't do. So you gotta do certain things, but you also gotta refrain from certain things. So that's this abstinence that they spiritualize. And Paul mentions this in Colossians 2.21 when he says, the one of the marks of false religion is people who go around saying, do not handle, do not taste, do not touch. Do not, do not, do not. Abstain, abstain, abstain. He literally says abstain from tasting. Yeah. Uh so that's a mark of false religion. Food restrictions. It's not even, and it's not even people who are necessarily religious. It's really every false all ideology, every false worldview will have a wrong view of food. Yeah. Even agnostics, atheists, environmentalists who don't claim to be religious, or environmentalists, many of those groups that are either atheistic or whatever, like you don't eat animals. Right. It's abstain from that because it will hurt the earth or it's not good for the earth. Right. Uh Kamala Harris, when she was running for president, one of her platform views that she was holding for a while was she was going to force people to not eat meat or hamburger. That was why I didn't vote for her, Derek. One of the main reasons I'm Because I want double cheeseburgers with bacon. Thank you very much. And if you become president, you can't take my hamburger away. No. And she wasn't saying that on a religious basis. Yeah. But that's her worldview. Right. Abstain. It's to abstain from certain things from diet or whatever makes them superior in some regard. Yeah. Or more spiritual or whatever, or more enlightened. Anyway, uh, so uh I totally agree with you, Derek, that um a mark of false religion is usually these religions are gonna have a false view in some area about food, and it usually has to do with abstinence. So I I added, I came up, I followed, I wrote down your list that you gave of these false religious views. Oh, yeah. And then I just added to them. So here they are. Uh false religious views about food that amount to abstinence. There's uh Orthodox Jews to this day, and even in Jesus' day among the Pharisees who had a wrong view about food, uh, but even Orthodox Orthodox Jews today who abstain from unclean foods, uh, particularly the list in Leviticus 11. Yeah. So that's why kosher Jews, Orthodox Jews today abstain from pork and bacon and uh uh shrimp and crab, etc. etc. That we are free to eat today. Yeah. But they do it for religious purposes. Thinking it gets them closer to God. No, it doesn't. Um number two after them is uh Seventh-day Adventists. And uh I know a lot of Seventh-day Adventists. Yeah. In our church plant, we rented from five different Seventh-day Adventist facilities. So thank God for the Seventh-day Adventists. But don't thank God for their false theology. Yeah. They have some good views and then they have some very bad views. I think they have the wrong view of salvation and soteriology because they believed in doing some good works to earn God's forgiveness, or you please God by doing human works. And one of those is abstaining from certain foods. So Seventh-day Adventists abstain from alcohol. They're supposed to anyway. Tobacco? Tobacco's a plant. Unclean meats and based on Leviticus 11. So they're still under the Mosaic Code to a degree. Excessive sugar. Excessive? Excessive sugar. Define define and excessive. How arbitrary. Excessive sugar. That's not in Leviticus 11. So that's man-made religion. But you abstain from those things to uh secure spirituality or level of spirituality. That's false religion. Uh the Muslims, as you had mentioned, Islam, the largest religion in the world, has uh uh very specific abstinence rules regarding some food, particularly pork. There's a lot of unclean meats listed in Leviticus 11. Yeah. But they emphasize pork for some reason. They abstain from alcohol, or you're supposed to if you're a good Muslim. Blood sausage, uh, blood uh you're supposed to abstain from any meat, even allowable meat like chicken. If you're a Muslim, you can eat chicken, but you can only eat chicken if you're a Muslim if it was slaughtered in the name of Allah. Oh, right. So is that called uh halal? I can't remember. Um and also they are to refrain from fanged and clawed animals. Uh no frogs, no frog legs for Muslims.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01No vanilla extract because some of it has alcohol in it. So I guess you can't have some cough medicines too. Alcohol. No alcohol whatsoever in any form if you're a Muslim. Uh Buddhists, they have again there's different kinds of Buddhists and there's different kinds of Muslims, but uh there are certain sects of Buddhists who believe in refraining from meat, fish, alcohol, the five pungent spices like garlic and onions, horse meat, dog meat, lion meat, dairy. And some of their uh monks believe in abstaining from food after twelve o'clock until the next day. Abstinence, abstinence, abstinence, because it can make you more holy.
SPEAKER_00So far, I'm glad I'm not Muslim or Buddhist.
SPEAKER_01Well, that takes us to the Hindus, one of the largest religions in the world, abstain from pork. For the most part, they're kind of vegetarian. So abstaining almost from all meat, particularly pork, alcohol, meat, fish.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_01I'm always surprised at Christians who abstain from all meat, including fish, when Jesus ate fish and his apostles. I just don't get that one. But anyway, Hindus. Uh some Hindus abstain from eggs, dairy products, onions, garlic, mushrooms for whatever reason. They got all their spiritual reasons for this. And again, abstaining from all this makes you holier on a higher level of spirituality. Number six, you and I, Derek, Catholics, Catholicism, false religion.
SPEAKER_00Are you asking?
SPEAKER_01That's controversial.
SPEAKER_00Are you asking? Yeah. It's a false religion. Whoa. They have a false gospel, it's formalized in their teaching.
SPEAKER_01Okay, if you're listening to this podcast and that comment surprised you, go back and listen to the podcast Derek and I did on Catholicism. Yeah. Yeah. And you'll see why he said dogmatically and clearly that it's a false religion. Wrong view of salvation, clearly. Uh but as Catholics, you and I were told to abstain from meat. I remember those days. Yeah. On Fridays we couldn't eat meat. I that meant because I love bologna sandwiches with mayonnaise. Actually, we didn't do that. It wasn't mayonnaise, it was miracle whip. Yeah. And white bread. And I could not have a bologna sandwich on Friday. And I was upset. I had to put peanut butter and jelly. Because we had to abstain on Fridays during Lent.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and always got school lunch. And school lunch on Fridays was non-meat. I can't remember what it was.
SPEAKER_01School lunch on Fridays during Lent was lame.
SPEAKER_00That's what it was. That's exactly right. No chicken fried steak, which was one of our favorites, but it wasn't on Fridays.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and as a Catholic, for sure, we were taught that abstaining from meat made you more spiritual.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Clearly. Clearly. Yeah. That's what I I thought that this was a good thing that pleased God.
SPEAKER_01You were earning salvation as a Catholic in as many ways as possible. And abstaining from food was one of them. Categorically false religion.
SPEAKER_00You know, I'm pretty confident though that when I once I got into high school, I am pretty sure I didn't abide by that. Because you I could we could just drive to Wendy's whenever we wanted.
SPEAKER_01So if my parents were abstaining, I definitely was a compromiser in high school, even though I was still going to a Catholic church. I was eating meat during land. You mentioned this one, then I looked it up because I thought it was interesting. Um Pythagoras, who was he was a Greek, 500 BC. So he came before Plato, or Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle by a couple hundred years. 500 BC. So he was known for being a mathematician, polymath, philosopher, whatever. But he had religious teachings too. Oh. Yes. He was an influential religious teacher. As a matter of fact, um, he had a very specific belief and teaching on transmigration of the soul and reincarnation. Wow. Pythagoras, 500 BC, the Greek. Um, and so he believed that souls were immortal. Animals had souls the same way humans did. There was really no difference. And when you as a person died, your soul left and could go into an animal or become an animal or another person. And so Pythagoras uh religiously uh taught to abstain from eating meat and fish because of reincarnation, his belief.
SPEAKER_00Okay. That makes that now makes sense because I didn't, I didn't, I only got some of that information from the vegan website. I didn't delve into Pythagoras's religious beliefs. That's very interesting. And that makes sense as to why he would be uh vegetarian.
SPEAKER_01And he was very influential, Greek, and it his teachings leak into Plato and some of his, and Aristotle as well. Um Mormons, false religion, uh, in the Doctrines of Covenants. Apparently you were doing your devotions in the Doctrines of Covenants because you mentioned it from the pulpit in section 89, uh, where they have what is called the word of wisdom in Mormonism, and that's abstaining. There it is, abstaining from certain foods. Yeah. So you get more spiritual, uh, including alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, sparing use of meat. Uh there's controversy in the Catholic Church about there was a rumor, it was just a rumor that Catholics weren't supposed to, I mean, uh sorry, Mormons. Mormons were not supposed to uh have caffeine or Coca-Cola when actually technically the Doctrine of Covenants is it says hot drinks. And when Joseph Smith wrote that in the 1800s, the only hot drinks that were known were coffee and tea. So with time uh it became a wives' tale that Mormons are supposed to abstain from coffee because of the caffeine, and therefore they couldn't drink coke. But so this was a uh Mormon scholar who was telling me this over lunch, how this confusion came about. But it's from hot drinks that you're supposed to abstain from.
SPEAKER_00That is just so lame. I'm sorry, just from a very just horizontal viewpoint here, just considering restricting good things. Yep. Things that taste good.
SPEAKER_01Good things are that's in the Bible. Good things, yeah. All things are to be enjoyed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01A gift from God. Ecclesiastes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh man.
SPEAKER_01Enjoy all that food. Yep. Yep. Restrict, restrict, restrict. False religion. Uh Jehovah's Witnesses, uh, they abstain, they believe abstaining from blood. Yeah. I think in wrong ways, because uh they say that that's why you can't have a blood transfusion if you're a Jehovah's Witness. Because if you have a blood transfusion, which could save your life, that's actually an intake of blood or drinking blood. Yeah. I think that's illegit. Yeah. Um false religions. Well, I don't know if these these aren't false religions, but it's a wrong view, and that's a lot of fundamentalist Christians have a wrong view of some food and drink in terms of abstaining from it because it'll make you holy. Uh, in the fundamentalist tradition of the early 1900s, which would include some Baptist fundamentalists, Pentecostal fundamentalists, Salvation Army, the fundamentalists, the holiness movement, and some fundamentalist methods in the early 1900s all believed that you should abstain from alcohol 100% totally. Wow. And any form of tobacco. If you smoked a cigar, that was sin. Wow. And we know that Pastor uh Charles Spurgeon smoked a cigar for the glory of God. He did. He did.
SPEAKER_00He did it with a clean conscience. Yep. And I think that was legit smoking a cigar for the glory of God. Yeah. It was. There's nothing in scripture that would lead you to conclude that it was wrong, that it is wrong to smoke a cigar. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then, but what about a cigarette with tobacco? Is that a sin to puff on a cigar? No. I mean it's a cigarette. No, I don't think it's a good thing. And then there are Christians out there who would disagree with that and say, oh no, you're harming the temple of your body by smoking cigarettes. And then you have to say, well, you're harming your body by all the sugar you're eating and all that other stuff you're doing. Yeah. So that's a feudal argument. But anyway, but that this whole idea of just abstaining to become uh more spiritual. And then the last category I have are I didn't know where to clump them, but uh professing Christians and also some legitimate Christians, independent Christians, evangelicals, who promote various Christian diets. Yes. And every time you look at a promotion a promoted Christian diet, uh a quote, biblical diet, the Christian diet, God's diet, whatever it is, by some so-called Christian, and you read the book, eventually you're going to run into something where it says you need to abstain from something. Yeah. Because uh, or the for example, the two most popular ones since I've been a Christian, Christian Diets was the Maker's Diet published in 2004, best-selling book by Jordan Rubin. You mentioned this on Sunday. Yeah. He's a messianic Jew by profession. Okay. There you go. He grew up in a messianic kind of home where he wants to mix the Bible with the Mosaic Law. Yep. And you see that in his best-selling book, The Maker's Diet. There you go. Came out with another one 20 years later called the Bibliodiet. Not the Paleo Diet, but the Biblios. But I read the Maker's Diet in 2004 22 years ago when it came out, because everybody was talking about it. Because it was such a hot, famous bestseller in the Christian community. And sure enough, not it didn't take me long to get in that book where all of a sudden he's quoted from Leviticus. And God said to abstain from pork and because these aren't healthy foods when God never said these aren't healthy foods. So that's misleading. Yeah. And the other one that I was very familiar with that hit the churches uh like a storm in the late 1990s. I remember a very close Christian friend of mine called me on the phone and told me about Pastor Cliff, what do you think of the way down diet by Gwen Shambler? And I was a little bit familiar with it, and I said, I think that's kind of a crazy thing. And she's kind of weird, isn't she? Then I did the research and found out she's got Jehovah's Witness Theology. Oh gosh. She's a cult leader. She calls herself a prophet. She started a church called Remnant Church. It's still around today, 26 years later. Um, I think Netflix or somebody came up with a very good documentary on her and her husband in the church recently. It's really good, but she's just crazy. She ended up getting killed in an airplane crash. But anyway, her daughter took over the church, and her daughter's the prophetess of the church today in Tennessee. Oh. And you quote, gain uh spiritual purity through weight loss and and what you eat in your diet. That's way down. Best-selling book, by the way, in 1997, Gwen Shamblin. So, and then you go on the internet today, Derek, and you quoted some of these from the pulpit as well, is uh just go on the internet and Christian books on diet or whatever. And like gazillion pop-up. Yeah. With all kinds of authors you've never heard of. And you look at their bio, and some of them are like Christians. And a lot of it is they did the, I think a lot of it is just a scam to make a buck off the Bible.
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't want to be cynical, but that's what I was concluding is that you know, maybe some of this is helpful nutritional advice, and but don't co-opt Jesus so you can sell more copies. It's just offer it for what it is. Here are some health recommendations, and here's some foods, and but don't come along and say that this is what Jesus requires for faithful Christians. Yeah. Um, or this is what Jesus taught, and this is this is the key, this is the spiritual, God-given key to health. Yep. Who's not gonna buy that, right? Especially Christians who are maybe a little naive, right? They're they're gonna spill some coin for that. Yeah. And so you're you could you're prostituting Christ in the gospel for this. I don't want to be cynical, but that I do think that's probably some of that's going on. That's kind of the feel you get like this is just a scam.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, even if they're doing it with good intentions or sincerely, it is prostituting the gospel. You are mixing new covenant theology with Mosaic law. Yeah. And Paul rebuked Peter to the face for doing that publicly.
SPEAKER_00Golly, that's true. Well, that that makes me feel a little better because I did call some people out from the pulpit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so Christians be warned anytime you see a book being advertised by a Christian or a Christian organization saying that, oh, here's God's spiritual diet, and you need to know God's eating plan. Yeah. It's probably illegitimate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And to your point about uh the maker's diet author being a messianic jury. I mean, that makes sense, right? His background, right? Uh that's why he's he's drawing these conclusions.
SPEAKER_01And you read at the beginning of the book is his biography, and it's he was incredibly sick, he was gonna die from cancer, did God's diet for 40 days, and poof, got healed. So a lot of these books make that promise. You want to be healed, right? Or you want to live on a higher spiritual plane, right? Then do my diet for$39.95.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a scam. Uh well, so I think it's helpful. I think it's really helpful to see that false religion is characterized by food restrictions. That's just a helpful kind of key. We know when you hear these things, you'd be like, oh, yep, false religion.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00And uh our our creator, our God, our savior, he is lavish, he is good, he is kind, and Christ came to set us free. And uh in these are these foods, these variety of foods that we can eat, they're meant to be an occasion for worshiping God.
SPEAKER_01They are to be enjoyed. Yep. And uh isn't it in Timothy, am I thinking, your passage where These foods from God are to be enjoyed, and we're supposed to say a Thanksgiving prayer when we eat. Yep. That's right. Oh yeah. Yep. So 1 Timothy 4, that passage. Don't abstain from good food that God's given you. Rather, for everything created by God, all these animals that He wants that you can eat. Nothing is to be rejected. So you you want to go with that crab or that shrimp? How about some octopus? Go for it. Bring it on, baby. Yeah. Or if you're Filipino, some of the Philippines, they eat dog meat. They do. I've never done that. I probably won't, but they probably and they enjoy it.
SPEAKER_00I know.
SPEAKER_01My wife went to Cambodia and she came home and showed me pictures of barrels and barrels of salted roasted cockroaches that they feast on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm probably not going to do that.
SPEAKER_01I'm not going to do that. But they do that. Anyway, for everything created by God is good. Nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude or thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by means of the word of God. And get this, and prayer. This is why we pray every time before we eat.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Amen. Well, can we take the last few minutes of this uh episode to answer a few kind of dismissellaneous questions? Yeah, let's do it. Uh can we uh get a stay a little theolog theological and then we'll talk about maybe some more practical ones. But one question is okay, what do you do about the blood? Are we still required to not eat the blood that was required under the Levitical or the Mosaic covenant, the Levitical laws? Um and we've had questions about that because some have told us they have Christian friends in various cultures that believe that freedom in Christ means that they can uh eat the blood, drink the blood. Um and so let can we talk about that for a minute? Yeah. So first place you see anything related to this is in Genesis chapter 9. And we talked about this at the beginning, I think we was this the first episode uh in this series. So we talked about it in what you have there is God giving these instructions to Noah, opening up the diet to all the living things that they can eat now, not just the plants, but now all living things. But then he he does provide just one restriction. Don't eat the blood, don't eat it with the blood, don't eat the blood. And when you get to the Mosaic covenant, that restriction is maintained. So this is not just a mosaic old covenant thing. This actually goes back to Genesis 9, when you had the expansion of food. God's the the the the expansion is is massive. I mean, is massive. I mean, it's that's a you want to talk about opening up access to all various kinds of foods. Genesis 9 was huge, but there's still a small uh restriction, namely don't eat the blood. And that's maintained in the Levitical uh laws in in the Mosaic Covenant. But then also you come to Acts chapter 15, and I know you've done some some research in this, so you can pick it up uh when you want to here, but Acts 15, we actually see something reiterated about the the blood, and actually I'm gonna pull Acts 15 up here so we can talk about it. But there's um this question about what to require of the Gentile believers. They've they've come to Christ. Should they be under obligation to obey any of the uh old covenant laws? They're living in the context of Jews, what should they do? And so the the uh apostles and others have to come together, apostles and apostles and elders have to come together and make a decision here. And they do, and they write a letter, and let me pull that up here so we can uh just hear what it says here. Uh verse 23 of Acts chapter 15. Actually, I'll start in verse 22. Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders with the whole church. I'm just gonna read this, and I want you to comment on it, Cliff, and the whole church to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Bur uh Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barersabbas and Silas, leading men of the brothers, with the following letter. Quoting the letter now. The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and uh S Sicil uh Sicilia, uh, greetings, since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds. Although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you some things by word of mouth, for it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay you no bur a further burden than these requirements, that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. So point of bringing this up is that you have this repeated instruction to abstain from the blood. There it is, and from what has been strangled. And I think those are meant to be held together, because when an animal is strangled, that the blood is not let out, and you strangle it for the purpose of eating it with its blood. So I take those as kind of combined things there. But Cliff, what do you say about this? Because it appears as though there is a maintaining of this prohibition from Genesis 9 through the uh old covenant into the the new.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so at the Jerusalem Council is about how Gentiles and Jews are now one in Christ in the church, the new church, the new covenant. So some things are new. One thing that's new is the diet is new in a little bit. But the main point of the Jerusalem Council was the apostles and leaders are saying uh Gentile Christians are not bound by the Mosaic Law. They're not obligated to submit to it or obey it. Right. Umcluding Leviticus 11 and all the food restrictions. That is clear from the text. Um so when but they said but abstain from immorality or porn pornea sexual immorality, that's Genesis 2, basically, Genesis 1 and 2. This is universal, that'll always be true. So that abstinence from fornication is not a command from the Mosaic Code. That's just from God's moral law that never changes. Uh and then I agree with you that uh so just tell the Gentile Christians to abstain from sexual immorality, which every Christian is obligated to do, um, and also from strangled uh animal or whatever is strangled, usually animals, strangled and from blood. Uh don't drink blood. Uh that's verse 20, and then it's reiterated and stated again in verse 29. The Gentiles are to abstain from blood. Uh and I would just put it this way: if you look at the Bible in the eras throughout redemptive history, uh before the Mosaic Code, God said, You can eat animal meat but not the blood. During the Mosaic Code, it's you can eat animal meat but not the blood. And then with the New Testament era after the Mosaic Code, you can eat animal meat but not the blood. That's just a consistent law that God laid down. Yeah. Uh and the reason is Genesis 9, 4, when God first instituted the menu to expand to meat, he said, why? Don't eat uh blood because that's the life of the animal. Don't do that. The life is in the blood. You shall not eat the flesh with its life, namely its blood. So that's why you're supposed to abstain from blood. So I think all throughout redemptive history, that has never changed. It's consistent. That's what God said. The life is in the blood. Don't eat it. So I think of this movie I saw. I can't remember if it was Kevin Costner or one of those cowboy movies where he was pretending to be an Indian and killed like a buffalo and immediately ripped out the heart and it's still beating, and he's got it in his hand and he takes a big chunk out of it with his mouth. Okay. Because that was the tradition, that's what you did. Okay. So you're literally eating the blood of the animal. Wow. Which historically that's what pagans do. I mean, who drinks and eats blood in history? It's pagans. Right. And I'd say almost every time it's attached with some kind of false religion, which was what the issue was in Acts 15. Yeah. Okay, Gentiles, you were involved in pagan false religion your whole life. It was gross. There was sexual immorality going on in your temples, and there was meat dedicated to idols in your temples, and that's carried over into your social life, family life, personal life, your neighborhoods. You're a stumbling block to Jews who are unbelieving, you're a stumbling block to Jewish Christians. Uh, don't do those practices that you did in the temple with pornea immorality and blood.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's great. That's really helpful. And uh I we had that question specifically, and we hope that this has made it clear that this is not something that Christians should partake in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we should not be eating blood. I had this came up in seminary class where there was a debate where they said, Well, what about the red steak that you cook and you pull it off the barbecue and it look at that red stuff? Should we not is that a violation?
SPEAKER_00So I had this question actually yesterday uh after the church service, and I said because he said I like to eat rare steak. And I was like, that's not what's being referred to here. The that that's the that's the the flesh, that that redness, that that ju those juices are not what's being referred to as the blood, the lifeblood that pulses through the the veins and the arteries and the the heart and these kinds of things. That's not what we're talking about, the that that that flesh, that meat being uh rare or undercooked or whatever. That's not what we mean by the blood, or it's not what scripture means by the blood.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Absolutely. So, no, don't drink eat blood.
SPEAKER_00And so so you can still eat a rare steak if you want.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You can, because it's not really blood when it's cooked and on a plate. Yep. So no vampires, they drink strictly blood.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So uh let's just take a few more minutes if we can, Cliff, because I know we have questions about uh just issues related to uh gluttony, self-control, this kind of thing. Is is gluttony something that Christians should be concerned about in their own spiritual lives?
SPEAKER_01Is that just kind of is that just Well up to this point some people would think that you and I are saying there's there are no restrictions on food or drink whatsoever. That we should not abstain in any regard, in any way, shape, or form regarding food and five. You could you could take it then. You could, and that's probably true up to this point. So we gotta give the balance. There are things that we need to restrict the menu or our appetite. Yeah. Or refrain from with respect to food and drink. So um I'd say you should refrain from too much alcohol. Yeah. Ephesians 5.18. Do not get drunk. Don't get drunk. So that's refraining. Uh the book of Proverbs um talks about the sin of gluttony. Yep. That's eating too much food. So you we need to refrain from eating too much food. Yeah. It's not what kind of food is much as too much food. Yeah. Um and this, the the New Testament principle for that, I think, is one of the fruits of the Spirit, which is self-control. Yep. Um, self-control of food. And this, you know, 1 Corinthians 10 31, one of my favorite verses, one of my life verses. Whether then you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God. That's right. So we need to so that's the abiding biblical principles. We need to honor God even in how we eat, what we eat, how much we eat. What's the proper balance? So there are things we need to refrain from. We need to refrain from blood, because the life is in the blood. We need to refrain from too much alcohol and getting drunk. We need to refrain from the sin of gluttony, which is a lack of self-control and having too much food.
SPEAKER_00So, can we think about it though, too, similarly, where you know you have people wanting to tell us what our diet should be, right? And making it spiritual. Is it also possible, and and and we're saying, no, you can't do that, but is it also possible that we could also all overreach and tell someone, you know you've eaten too much if it's blank, blank, blank? In other words, I it seems to me that the way that these instructions are given throughout the Old and New Testament in terms of self-control and gluttony and this sort of thing, is that you kind of know, you know, you know, if your spirit, if the spirit dwells in you, you know whether you've eaten too much. You don't need it. It's like a one donut is not gluttony, but two is. Like who made up that rule? Yeah. Right? So it's almost as though, like, as we preach and teach these things, we want to tell people, don't you eating too much food is gluttony. We're called not to do that. Uh drinking too much, becoming drunk, we're not okay. Well then what is what's what what is gluttony? Tell me what is it? Is it one steak or two? Is it and I think we have to trust the spirit to convict and and to guide fellow believers as we teach these things, and not to want to put in our rules and say, you know, you're right, you probably shouldn't eat three donuts, but two's probably fine. Yeah. Like that's not that's not script that's not biblical.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's uh I think you you can't have a one-dimensional view of gluttony, meaning, okay, how much uh how many donuts am I allowed to consume as opposed to well why? Right, right. Why are you eating so many donuts?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great point.
SPEAKER_01Um some people are gluttons when they grab a they'll go buy a box of 24 donuts and hide in their bedroom and eat all those. Uh Christians do this. Yes. Why are you doing that? Yes. Why are you doing it? Depression, loneliness. You're so you're trying to find comfort, resolution, relief, whatever, not in God's principles that he's laid down. That's right. That's just a human tendency, that's sin. So there's a lot more questions you gotta ask regarding gluttony instead of that superficial, one-dimensional one. Is so how much can I have? That's a great point. Getting to the heart of it, really. Yeah. Um, it wouldn't be any different than somebody who's cutting their wrist with a razor blade or knife. You and I have had to counsel people like that, or just one of these, you know, uh unhealthy behaviors regarding your body. Yeah. And you can't just deal with the surface issue. It's not you don't just counsel and say, stop cutting your wrist with that knife. Right. Only eat two donuts. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You gotta talk more about what are the real issues here. Yeah. Uh a principle that's been helpful for me too is uh uh I'm not even sure where I picked this up at, but gluttony is not gluttony is not an event, it's a lifestyle. In other words, like there's feasting in the Bible, lots of feasting. And so just because you even ate a lot at a meal in a feast, like there's plenty of opportunities for that to happen. Just because you ate ate a lot doesn't mean that you were gluttonous, yep. Um, or that you are a glutton. Um, to your point, you may have taken all that food to the glory of God and enjoyed it and had a full belly and walked out of that uh party with a good conscience and went home praising the Lord. Um that doesn't mean you are a glutton just because you had a full belly. But uh it also you also have to say that um if someone is consistently pursuing uh food in a way that, like you said, gives them they're seeking comfort, they're seeking relief, they're they're nervous, they're whatever it might be, they're anxious about things, and that helps settle them, then the real issue is is the heart. And it it becomes a lifestyle because you're taking your heart with ever you and your problems with you wherever you go. Whereas just having a big meal and eating a lot doesn't mean you're a glutton. Yeah. I can't can you think of a verse in the New Testament that says, do not be a glutton? Uh I in terms of looking up the word glutton, I found that um the only time it's used is when Jesus is accused of being a glutton. Yeah. Interestingly enough. Because he's eating, enjoying food.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And the Pharisees are but there's not really Yeah. Uh that's why it's when you're dealing with gluttony, you're dealing with other things. So I like this comment that gluttony's uh a lifestyle. There's uh and it's interesting if you do look at gluttony in the Old Testament book of Proverbs or examples of it in Esther chapter one and other places, the book of Daniel, uh it's accompanied by other things, godless behavior, usually drunkenness, reveling, partying, uh pagan worship or whatever. It usually doesn't exist by itself when it's condemned or called out. Um that's why it's a lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00Uh accompanies a worldview. Yep. Can we also say another thing, this important thing about gluttony? It's be careful that you don't mistake someone being a certain a certain size with being glutton or being a glutton or not being a glutton. In other words, you can be trim and appear very fit and be someone who gorges in food and then works it off really hard in exercise.
SPEAKER_01Or or making themselves throw up.
SPEAKER_00Or making themselves throw up, or you can be someone who's uh a little overweight who um just you're just a bigger person.
SPEAKER_01You're just built bigger. Or they have a slower metabolism. Yep, or they're on medication. Yeah. There are people just different bone structures, they're just bigger bones. Yeah. Yeah. It's the way, and then it's like some people are it's like I have a sibling who is very skinny, has always been skinny, and when we every time we sit down to eat, he eats four times more than I do. And we have a joke about his hollow leg. It's like where does that food go? Exactly. And he's sixty years old.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, you gotta be that reminds me of 2 Samuel 7. Is it 167 or 716? Uh 2 Samuel. 1 Samuel. Anyway, no, it's 1 Samuel. Yeah, 1 Samuel 16, 7. God looks at the well, man looks at the outside, yeah, but God looks at the heart. So we can't rush to judgment.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Well, I this has been a great conversation. Uh Cliff, it turned out to be three episodes, and I think it took that many. I think we uh we covered some ground that was covered in these sermons, but I think we covered a lot a lot more ground and things that weren't covered in those sermons. And so we we trust this has been helpful uh for you. Uh, we encourage you to check out with all wisdom.org. Check out the other podcast if you haven't, and until next time, keep seeking the Lord and his word.