How to survive the empty nest

How are you going to feel when your child leaves for college?  Have you given it any thought in advance and how prepared are you to face an empty nest?

In this episode I talk with Stacy Kaye, an award-winning journalist and source of encouragement for those facing the silence of an empty nest.  Listen in and be inspired  as we explore the depth of parental love, the pain that comes with letting go, and the new opportunities that await in this transitional phase of life.

https://www.stacykayebooks.com/

Chapters

• 0:09 "The Impact of Empty Nest Syndrome"
• 7:33 Letting Go
• 20:25 Navigating Empty Nest
• 25:40 Navigating the Empty Nest Phase

Transcript

Michelle: 0:09

Well, hey everybody, and welcome back to Qualified, the place where incredible people share their stories of overcoming great adversity and loss to inspire you and give you hope. I'm Michelle Heaton. Grief and loss are words that we often associate with death and mourning, but, as you probably already know, we can also experience grief and loss unrelated to death. We can lose a job and grieve. Get a divorce and grieve. Forfeit a dream and grieve and grieve. Forfeit a dream and grieve. Whenever something or someone significant in our lives is no longer a part of our lives, we can feel sorrow and maybe even depression.

Michelle: 0:55

Well, my guest today has experienced her share of loss in life. She understands that loss brings grief and that grief can cause emotions to spiral, but her most recent loss had an impact on her that she didn't see coming. Today, we'll talk about the grief that many parents feel when their children move out of the home, called Empty Nest Syndrome. In addition to being a wife, a mother and a grandmother, she's also an award-winning journalist and editor. Her recently published book Damaged Goods a devotional for the slightly imperfect, explores relevant issues Christian women face today, offering hope and encouragement. Her name is Stacy Kay and it's my honor to have her as my guest on the show. Welcome to Qualified Stacy.

Stacy: 1:48

Thank you, I'm so happy to be here today.

Michelle: 1:50

Great, Glad to have you. So when we first met we had a conversation about your early life and the losses you experienced in your first marriage. Can you just take a minute and kind of summarize that time in your life and how all of those different losses left you feeling emotionally?

Stacy: 2:07

Oh, absolutely. So I got married right out of high school and I had my first baby soon after that. And then, you know, at some point my husband became abusive. You know, it's one of those things. You know, I don't really know when it started, but it just kind of spiraled into that. And it wasn't just physical, you know, it was mainly verbal and emotional, and that really messes with your head when you're in a relationship like that.

Stacy: 2:33

And I just kind of entered this phase of my life where I felt like it was just wave after wave of trauma, if you will. So I just never felt like I could get my head above water. And so during that time I had a miscarriage, my daughter became really ill and we didn't know, you know, what was really causing it. And then so we were kind of going through all of that. And during the midst of that I became pregnant again and my husband told me he didn't want to be married to me anymore. And that really threw me for a loop, because no one in my family had ever been divorced and I had not seen that. I didn't ever picture that for my life. I was raised in a family where people just stay together, you don't get divorced and you just work it out. If you have problems, you work it out. So one day he did something you know abusive that my daughter saw she was three at the time and I just decided right then that, you know, my children are not going to be raised in a home where they see their mother mistreated or abused.

Stacy: 3:35

And so, even though I eventually was the one who left, I really had to deal with that whole brokenness of just not knowing what to do, not knowing where to go, where to turn, and I felt like I was just, I just felt completely broken. I believed all the things that he said about me that I was unlovable and that I was ugly and I was stupid, and just all the things he said to me over and over again. I believe those to be true of things he said to me over and over again. I believe those to be true. And I still distinctly remember just like laying on the couch and just burying my head in my mom's lap and just sobbing and just repeating those things to her and I can't imagine how she must have felt, trying to comfort me at that moment. But I don't ever remember being feeling that low. You know that was probably the lowest point in my life. Was right then?

Michelle: 4:27

Well, I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that Stacy Dealing with domestic abuse, a miscarriage, an illness with your daughter and then a divorce.

Michelle: 4:38

That's a lot of adversity and loss, and I wanted you to take us back to that time and tell us briefly about it, because we're now going to talk about how things eventually changed in your life. You said you began to learn more about what a healthy relationship should look like and then at some point after your divorce, you married again. So you had your two children from the first marriage and then you married your current husband and you two had two children together and then your life changed and evolved over the years. You're in a healthy marriage now with four great kids, but now at some point you face having a senior in high school and then another one, and then another one, and you had to say goodbye to your children one by one as they left for college. You told me that when you faced an empty nest, you felt a new kind of grief and emotional distress that you hadn't experienced before. Can you talk about that?

Stacy: 5:37

So I felt like there was a mixture of emotions, because on the one hand, you have that excitement for your kids and for their future and for what might be for them, and then you also have that just that terror inside of, okay, they're out on their own. I'm not involved in the day-to-day anymore. How, you know, did they listen to anything that I told them? You know, how are they going to fare on their own, you know. But then on that other side of it is just that sadness of okay, this part of my life is over, I can't go back. Anything that I wanted to do differently, it's too late. You know, I've done that, I'm done. And it was really scary too to think, okay, I've arrived at this point in my life. I'm, you know, a middle-aged woman and, you know, do I even know what I want to do, you know? So it was kind of scary because I felt like I was just looking at, like all of everything that I had done before, and I'm looking ahead, thinking what do I do now? What's next?

Michelle: 6:39

Yeah, I get it. It feels like whenever there's loss in our lives, we start to realize we have decisions to make about the future who we are now, what we will become, what's our purpose. So can you tell us a little more about the feelings you had when the reality hit and each of those kids went away to school?

Stacy: 6:59

When I dropped my daughter off in college, I felt like I left, you know, my heart there in her dorm. I was probably crying again because it just felt like I was leaving a physical part of me and I know part of that is my control freak nature but then the other, and just being terrified because she was my first and she's my only girl, and just being nervous about that. And then when I left, my oldest son stayed kind of close to us and it wasn't and he was very ready, and so I felt more confident. But my third son, my third child, my second son, went to college.

Stacy: 7:49

He went six hours away and it was the longest drive of my entire life because he's my introvert, he is, um, he is not comfortable in, you know, like an unusual situations where he doesn't know people, he's not somebody that's going to go out and talk to you and things like that, which is funny because he was. You know he was a pitcher and a shortstop in sports and he was out there doing his thing. But you know he was a pitcher and a shortstop in sports and he was out there doing his thing. But you know, he was my child when he was a baby, if a child, even as a toddler, if someone would speak to him, he would cry like a stranger, like he was.

Stacy: 8:12

So it was really like we worked on him, like getting out there and feeling comfortable, and so for him to go and want to go to school that far away and none of his friends were there, he didn't know anybody. I just it broke my heart and I just kept asking my husband can we just go back and get, like I could just stay for just a few, like I could stay in a hotel for maybe for a week or for a few days, you know, and you can come back and get me, but I literally I remember just crying pretty much the whole way home, just thinking this is never, ever going to work. How is this going to work? We're going to be back next week picking him up.

Michelle: 8:47

Yeah, when you were saying you know, maybe I'll stay in a hotel nearby, I was thinking I think that's how I'd feel too. I mean, it seems like there's nothing incremental about it. It's just today. He leaves and we drop him off and we go back home. So, yeah, it almost seems like wouldn't it be better to let him have a first night with mom and dad, only 10 minutes away? So I can imagine a lot of people would feel that way, and I think it's totally understandable right.

Stacy: 9:15

Yeah, it's just like I'm like we're just dropping him off. He knows nobody and you know. So that was, I think, that added to the stress of it, just thinking. And it's so funny because now you know he runs these meetings and he has to go and give presentations to these board people and like I mean, he's like he can do all the things you know, and it's just you know, it was exactly what he needed.

Michelle: 9:45

It's just that I wanted to just stay there and like, hover over him longer and keep him under my wings as long as I could. Well, I'm thinking about somebody who might be listening right now and they're really struggling with missing their child and wanting to get in the car and go see him. What would you say to that person to encourage them?

Stacy: 10:00

So I completely understand that that desire and that want to go and just like be with them is so strong. But I do think that there is, you know, I think that God kind of makes it. Where they start to break away from us, right, at a certain age they start to get to what? Maybe junior or senior year, they start to kind of pull away and they start to become difficult to even live with. And I think that that's kind of God's grace.

Stacy: 10:29

And by the time it's time for them to go, we want them to go, but then when they do actually go, then we want to grab them back in, right, because we've kind of forgotten. But I do think if you, you know when, when, when you have those feelings, I think you need to remember that they are out there and they're forming new friendships and they're making new connections and they're moving on, and if you've taught them the things that they need, they're going to soar time, then they don't really have the opportunity to make the connections they need to make and even make mistakes. It's okay for them to make mistakes because you're still there, because at some point you're no longer going to be there and you're no longer going to be their catch, and so you know, for them to be able to do this now, while you're still a little bit close by even if you're not right there, but you're just a phone call away, then that's really important, I think.

Michelle: 11:38

That's really good advice. Probably hard stuff to apply, but good, sound advice, thank you. I think I also remember you telling me about a friend who really struggled to let go and she was even tracking her children at school.

Stacy: 11:47

She is one of those like helicopter parents right, yeah.

Stacy: 11:52

And so she wanted to know, like she wanted to track her kids. She wanted to know exactly where they were. And they had to be home, even in college, like, like I'm looking, why are you not in your apartment, why are you not here and see, I wasn't that. I wasn't that mom, because I felt like, just like I said, I do think that you want them to be safe and I understand that's an important part of the world that we live in right now. But I also understand that they have to make it on their own.

Stacy: 12:18

We're not always going to be there. We don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. So if they don't have us, are they still going to be able to make that right choice? So if they don't have us, are they still going to be able to make that right choice? This is to me, when they build their self-confidence so that they can go out and they can step into the world and know that mom and dad are still there. But I don't have to have them take off the training wheels. They never get that opportunity to really grow and soar until they have to and they have no choice.

Michelle: 12:54

Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, men and women, and I'm sure there's people listening that are in the midst of it right now. So I'm glad that you kind of got into the detail of those emotions because people can understand. It's normal and natural, something that a mother goes through. So what did you end up doing with it? As you were in the midst of it, how did you cope with the way you were feeling, and was there any place that you could turn to kind of get support or compassion?

Stacy: 13:20

So I don't think I handled it well at all because at first I just threw myself into work. I took a promotion, I got so busy at work that I was either at work or I was at home talking about work, thinking about work on phone with somebody from work, you know. And so I think I did that because I just didn't want to go home and be in that empty house, you know. And my poor husband, you know, he tried to comfort me and he tried to be there for me and but honestly, he got frustrated because, you know, I was always just focused on work and he was kind of looking forward to, like, this new phase of our life and I wasn't really there for it.

Michelle: 14:02

Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought that up, because I was thinking about the male perspective. So talk a little bit more about how he felt about everything.

Stacy: 14:11

So I think his process was a lot shorter than mine. I think, on the one hand and I don't even know if you would call it grief, I know that there's some reflection there but since we married and I already came with two children and then we had two children quickly after we never had that couple's time, and so he was really looking forward to kind of this new phase of like we can date, we can go out and we don't have to think about, you know, our kids or their extra activities or whatever. For him, when I wasn't really there and you know I was so focused on you know work and everything. But I do know that he he would tell me sometimes that he would see little kids practicing t-ball or having a baseball game or something at a park and he would pull over sometimes and just watch for a little bit and he would want me to, like we would go.

Stacy: 15:03

We had one of our kids was really into band and is a professional musician and he so he would want to go to like band contests and just kind of. I think he's very nostalgic and it kind of helps him to. He likes to reminisce about things like that. So that's kind of how he has worked through. It is just little things like that, okay.

Michelle: 15:23

Yeah, you hear people talk about different ways that the man and the woman deal with a child going to college, and I've heard so many different stories. It's interesting to hear your perspective and I'm sure everybody's different. But you know, as I was reading through your book, in chapter 18, you talk specifically about this and I want to read because it was very good. But you said, when the games, the concerts, the plays, the practices and rehearsals and all the extracurriculars you felt were running you ragged, screech to a halt, you're suddenly faced with a black void of nothingness. Some might say a blank page. But what good is a blank page when you don't know what to write? And I thought, wow, I'm just thinking about how you went from all of that to being faced with a blank page. So it sounds like it had an impact on you and your identity. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Stacy: 16:19

So for me, I was that mom. You know I volunteered for everything. I was the homeroom mom, the Girl Scouts, the PTA band, any kind of sports. If you could coordinate it or volunteer for it, I probably did it. So and all of the things that I did, they coordinated around my kids' activities and interests. Not really mine per se, it's because I was so focused on, you know, what they wanted and making every moment. You know, count for them and count for us. You know, count for them and count for us.

Stacy: 16:48

You know, as a family, that I didn't really carve out any time for myself or to think about what my interests were, what I really had hoped for, dreamed about, and I just really think that my identity became, you know, okay, I'm Tori's mom, I'm Ty's mom, you know, and that's what they call you.

Stacy: 17:06

They don't even know your name anymore, you're just so-and-so's mom. And so I think that we all start out, you know, with hopes and plans and what we think we want to do in our lives. And then for me, I just tabled that very early on and they just kind of set, you know, all those plans set so unattended for so long that I didn't really think they applied to me anymore by the time I got around to having time for me, and so you know, you change right and you're not the same person anymore that you were when you were 18, 19, 20 years old and making these plans or whatever. And so, all of a sudden, I had to just think what do I want to do for me, and who am I, and how is this going to look, this next phase of my life? I'm still relatively young, and what do I want to do? Because I didn't have an identity apart from being their mom.

Michelle: 17:58

Yeah, and we talked a little bit about that before. When people are faced with what do I want to do with my life? It could be at any kind of crossroads, it could be empty nest, it could be the death of a spouse or a child Anytime there's a change like this and you're faced with that. I've talked to people or I've asked them and often the answer is I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. So I like that we're having this conversation, because you're going to talk a little bit about how you use the opportunity to search out your purpose and move forward in your life. So talk about that.

Stacy: 18:31

Yeah, because there I was. You know, my kids are all gone and they're off on their own, and my husband was frustrated with me because I was never home and you know, when I was, I was just so wrapped up in the work and the job wasn't even something I enjoyed anymore, in fact, I dreaded going there. And so I really just had to stop and reflect. And I think it was so interesting because two of my staff brought me the same devotional and the same within a week. It wasn't the exact same devotional, but it was written by the same person and it was the same like it was a daily devotional. And I thought, okay, somebody's trying to get my attention here. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to stop, and I started reading through I take turns reading through both of the devotionals and really praying through that and really seeking what I thought God wanted for me at this moment in my life. And I ended up.

Stacy: 19:24

Just, I changed careers, I wrote this book and I, you know, I really felt like God had laid it on my heart a long time ago, but I never really had the time to do it and think about it and I thought this is the time. This is the time for me to put this out here and do this, and I thought this is the time. This is the time for me to put this out here and do this, and just in hopes that it can help other people who are going through something similar, because, even though our experiences are not going to be the same, I think the fact that you know, everybody goes through something Nobody gets through life unscathed, so but those shared experiences, I think really connect us and if we can be transparent with one another and we can be honest and kind of put away that Instagram facade and just say this is what happened and this is how I felt, then we can have real connections and real experiences and I think that can actually help in the long run. So that was my goal.

Michelle: 20:17

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. Congratulations for doing that and for actually taking the time to be prayerful and ask God. You know, what should I do with this time? Because I think when I did ask people, when I mentioned that before, it was because I was struggling with it myself and I was facing retirement without my son and kind of feeling like I have you know what is my purpose, I don't know, kind of feeling like I have you know what is my purpose, I don't know.

Michelle: 20:43

And the people that I talked to, prayer, didn't always come up.

Michelle: 20:45

It was just kind of like, well, I've always liked to sew or I've always liked to garden, you know, and all of those things are good.

Michelle: 20:51

But you talked about work before pouring yourself into work which could be good, could be bring income in, but could be a distraction, you know, could be used as a distraction, and sometimes those other things, like gardening and sewing or whatever, could be just something that we enjoy doing. But when you go to God, he will reveal to you, I believe, kind of a purpose, kind of what we were created to do, and that's what you did. So I love it that you wrote the book. Like I said, I really enjoyed reading it and I think that your experiences will help other people, so I commend you for that. On that note, I want to ask you, having gone through a lot of the other losses in your life and then coming to this point in your life later and then losing the children and kind of arriving at a new purpose, can you share with us some lessons that you learned through all of it that might help someone who is struggling with empty nest.

Stacy: 21:48

Yes, absolutely. I really think it's important that you don't wait until your kids have left or they're about to leave, because you need to start planning kind of your next phase while you're still in it right. Because you need to start planning kind of your next phase while you're still in it Right. Because I see it all the time where parents like they're waiting until senior year or even last semester of senior year, and then they're all of a sudden, now what you know, and they have all these emotions, they're reeling with emotions from you know just the graduation and whatever's happening next, and then I think that it can kind of be overwhelming, and I think a lot of especially moms, I think we can get really depressed and really get sidetracked. So I think it's important that we kind of keep that in mind and even though you know, of course there's times that you know somebody else is going to be the focus, we're not the main focus and that's how it should be. Our children should be our focus when they're in the home, but that doesn't mean that we completely set aside ourselves. I mean, take a class or, you know, find some friends that do the things that you like to do, join a group, so that you just are carving out a little bit of time for your own interests and staying plugged in to like the core of who you are and not have every single thing that you do be about your children and your family, and I think that's super important.

Stacy: 23:02

And then I also, for me, I think, investing in real, true friendships are key, because to me, a true friendship requires a time commitment. It requires you to give and receive grace and you know, those people to me are sounding boards and they're my husband is wonderful, he's a wonderful friend to me. But having those female friendships that they kind of can relate to me because they've been where I've been or they have some of the similar emotions that this maternal, you know, emotion that we have, I feel like that's beneficial to me, to just have that time to have that person to talk to. So I think that if, if you can find, you know, a friend or a group of friends, I think that's wonderful.

Stacy: 23:48

And then I also think just giving yourself that time to grieve because I don't think that we really recognize it as you know, something to grieve necessarily, something to grieve necessarily, but I do think it's like to your point, it's a loss. You know we are no longer in that phase. We're not going back, it's gone, and so we have to understand that we're moving to the next phase and our relationship with our children will change and our relationship with our spouse will change, and there's just a lot that changes there and you have to give yourself some grace and give yourself some time to work through those emotions and not just pretend like it's not happening. So I think that those are really important because there's a lot that's wrapped up in that, not just sadness and excitement. There's just a lot in one big bundle that we need to kind of work through.

Michelle: 24:37

Yeah, I love it. Thank you for all of those. Those are very good practical tips as well. And, like you just said, loss is loss, and we talked about the fact that when I lost my son, there was an issue about identity as a mother. You know, am I a mother anymore? And I think there's a certain aspect of that too, when children leave with empty nest because several of your children are married now, right, how many? Yes three.

Stacy: 25:02

Three of the four are married.

Michelle: 25:03

So that creates a new dynamic. When they get married, you know, do they need me anymore? So I think that was. Those are very good tips. It is an important job it's probably the most important job to be a mom, but don't lose sight of who you are. Very good, thank you for that. Okay, well, Stacy, I will put a link to your website in the show notes so that listeners can get a copy of your devotional, because I think it's really comforting and meaningful. So at this point, I just want to say thank you so much for agreeing to come on the show and be my guest. It was great getting to know you.

Stacy: 25:36

Yes, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Michelle: 25:40

So for those of you listening, you may be facing an empty nest for the first time in your life and it may be taking its toll on you. You might be missing your child like crazy and resisting the urge to call or text or even drive over to see them and make sure they're okay. But, like Stacy said, those feelings are normal and it's natural for a parent to grieve the loss of their children at home. But I hope you found some comfort in Stacy's words about letting them make their own way, letting them make new friends and even letting them make some mistakes. But in addition to the courage it takes to let them soar, don't forget yourself in the process.

Michelle: 26:25

Remember that God has great plans for your life too, and that this time in your life can be used to discover new purpose and a deeper relationship with God. Don't forget to seek Him first in all your plans and seek Him in your sorrow as you grieve your loss. Seek him first in all your plans and seek him in your sorrow as you grieve your loss. He's near to the brokenhearted and he works all things for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. So enjoy the new opportunities and trust that your kids will be okay. And as you walk through this new challenge in your life and you begin to heal and even thrive in your newfound endeavors, just remember that one day you'll be able to help someone else with the lessons you learned in your loss. Thanks for listening.