Finding Healing in the Forest: How a Chronic Condition Led to Epic Adventure

Curtis LaFleche's life changed dramatically at age 16 when he was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis – a condition that causes spinal fusion and threatened his athletic pursuits. Rather than surrendering to limitations, this diagnosis sparked an unexpected journey into the wilderness that transformed his life.

"I just started walking down the ski trails," Curtis recalls, "and then I fell in love with hiking... seeing birds for the first time I didn't know existed and these plants." What began as rehabilitation became a profound connection with nature that would shape his future career in forestry and conservation, where he made conscious decisions to protect wildlife habitats and riparian zones while managing logging operations.

Now 46, Curtis embraces outdoor adventures with a wisdom born from decades managing chronic pain. His upcoming 15-day solo canoe expedition through Ontario's Temagami region represents both a physical challenge and a deeply meaningful journey. Beginning on Gamble Lake, where he planted trees 25 years ago, and ending at Emerald Lake, where his partner's family has scattered ashes of loved ones, the 160-kilometer route creates a perfect circle in his life story.

Curtis shares his meticulous planning process – from creating detailed spreadsheets tracking gear weight to dehydrating trail meals and calculating necessary daily calories. His "nothing but time" philosophy prioritizes enjoyment and safety over covering distance. "If I have to triple carry, I don't care," he explains. "I'm going to pull out my camera and watch birds and take three carries and spend two hours on the trail."

Beyond his personal adventures, Curtis finds joy in introducing his teenage daughters to the backcountry, carefully balancing challenge with comfort. "I think someday they're going to find solace in the forest," he reflects, recognizing how his own wilderness connection began during life's challenges.

Ready to embark on your own wilderness journey? Follow Curtis (@notsoepicdventurers) on Instagram and YouTube to witness his upcoming Temagami adventure and discover how nature can transform challenge into opportunity.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Curtis LaFleche
• 1:25 Living with Ankylosing Spondylitis
• 7:10 Forestry Work and Conservation Values
• 9:01 Husky Training and Dog Sledding
• 12:00 Favorite Paddling Destinations
• 16:13 Planning the 15-Day Solo Trip
• 22:30 Navigating Bush Camping Challenges
• 26:52 Adventures with Teenage Daughters
• 32:04 Balancing Different Outdoor Preferences

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and good day. Welcome to this Super Good Camping podcast. My name is Pamela, I'm Tim.

Speaker 1: 0:04

And we are from supergoodcampingcom. We're here because we're on a mission to inspire other people to get outside and enjoy camping adventures such as we have as a family. Today's guest is a gentleman that Tim has been following on Instagram for a while now. Unlike Tim, he also puts out video tripping content on his YouTube channel, though he's extremely passionate about being out in nature and, like us, loves to bring the kids along. He has worked in forestry and logging related positions for most of his life, among other things. Today, he's going to tell us about a 15-day, 160-kilometer trip he has planned for Tomogami slash Lady Evelyn area this spring, which, very coolly, he is starting on a lake that he planted trees on 25 years ago. Please welcome Curtis LaFleche, also known as the Not so Epic Adventurer on YouTube and Instagram. Welcome, curtis.

Speaker 3: 0:49

Thank you, that was an amazing intro.

Speaker 1: 0:51

That's Tim's work.

Speaker 2: 0:54

I pull it out of my butt about 15 minutes before we go live. Nice, the pressure seems to work Right out of the gate. I'm going to go off topic, but I think it's part of the story. So, having done some chatting with you, I understand you. At 16, I think, you were diagnosed with AS immune disorder. Tell us a little bit about what it is, tell us how it affects your tripping and how you deal with it.

Speaker 3: 1:25

Yeah, I mean I think I was about 16 years old, I was big into hockey and I pulled my groin and I just kind of felt that sciatic pain for the first time and just being well, not knowing what AS was, I just thought it was a pulled groin or like hockey injuries and I just kind of dealt with it for about two to three years and then finally got diagnosed with AS ankylosing spondylitis which essentially is your spine is slowly fusing together. So you know, at 18, 19 years old it was a pretty huge blow, tough pill to swallow. It was tough to maintain playing sports, which was really hard and you know, just trying to heal and discover who I'm going to become. You know that was my identity. So I just started walking and then I still remember to this day I walked off to the ski trails. I'm just like, let me go down these ski trails.

Speaker 3: 2:18

And then I just fell in love with hiking and then I was like seeing birds for the first time I didn't know existed and these plants, like I still remember the first Solomon seal, the false Solomon seal I saw and I was just like is this? Like did someone plant this here? This doesn't seem like it belongs in a forest, like, say, when neo-tropical birds, I was like, did someone lose their pet? Like what's going on? So I just rushed down to the library and start researching and I just became passionate about the outdoors after. I just never looked back and I just, you know, looking back I realized that's where I was going to heal, where I was going to, like, connect with nature and just process things, I guess for mentally, yeah, so it was looking back. It was a huge transition of my life, that's for sure.

Speaker 2: 3:05

So something crappy turned into something wonderful One.

Speaker 1: 3:08

So you said it helped you heal, so has the disease. You know, like you haven't ended up in a wheelchair, obviously.

Speaker 3: 3:16

You know a lot of people that have what I have are slunched over like really badly, and I feel just being active and mobile and pushing myself has allowed me to be straight as I can be. And I mean I've been tripping with a lot of people and I can hold my own. I'm 46 years old. So it's like at this point I don't let it hold me back because it's I'm 46. It's been too long. I've been fighting it so much. I've learned how to pain manage. So it's just become who I am.

Speaker 3: 3:51

And you know, talk about like adjustments at camping. Yeah, I have to bring pain meds. I really have to watch how I sleep. I have to try my best to stretch as much as possible and more in the last five years, I would say, just because of a tree planner. Like production wise, I've always been working production and maybe and that's my excuse anyway but I always want to get to point a to b as fast and efficient as possible. I'm really learning to like drop my pack mid portage and take a five minute break and it's like extra five minutes doesn't make a difference at all on your trip but it makes a massive difference on my health and my back.

Speaker 2: 4:23

So just learning to slow down at my age, I guess, yeah, I can't truly explain how much I hear myself echoed in in literally in that story. I've got some back issues. I stopped doing trying to do, you know, single carries. Anymore we don't move every day, we often do two days or do a three-day base camp, move a couple of days, do two days, because, yeah, I got you beat by a few years but it took me a little little while to smarten up for some of the things. But, yeah, cool, well, that's great. I mean I'm glad that, I'm glad that it's one of those. You just deal with it like yeah, I still want to get out there, I want to do this stuff. This is, this is how, 30 years later, I've I've figured out how to, how to best manage it. You should see my bag of meds as well. Same same deal. Man, anti-inflammatories at you know, like advil the whole.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah uh okay, how awesome that, like disease, I mean crappy to have a disease, especially at such a young age, but that it ignited such a wonderful thing for you a passion for nature I tend to burn out once in a while, but it pushes me to get out like I don't take life for granted, I don't take my body for granted.

Speaker 3: 5:37

I just like that's kind of why, like I got into dog sledding and just like moved out west to like paddle with the salmon, just like at that point I was like worried that later on in my life I wouldn't be able to do those things. So I pushed myself to just do everything I could and lots of it. But now it's I'm at a point where I can just ease back a little bit and just enjoy it more too.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Yeah, very cool. Um so, getting out nature, plants, animals, all that sort of jazz is I make the assumption that's. That's what pointed you at, forestry type jobs and stuff, right?

Speaker 3: 6:18

yeah, I wanted to be part of the management side of things and maybe back then I was a little bit naive on how that all worked and thought maybe you know there is good management, there is good management out there, but I thought there was. It was a bit different, a little bit naive, but at the same time I was making at some points making really big decisions and it was nice to know that you know I'm making decisions that other people wouldn't make, tend to make, based on my knowledge on birds and like cavity trees and riparian zones and things like that. Just having a heart, I guess where some people are like pushing towards, like let's get as close to the river as we can for the mill, like, but where I was, like let's go as far away from the river as we can for the mill because of habitat because of whatever.

Speaker 3: 7:01

Yeah, yeah yeah, just recognizing that habitat and caring for it, not just seeing the logs as money, I guess. So yeah, I was really into the forest management side of things.

Speaker 1: 7:12

Cool. Wow, so training huskies too, that sounds pretty cool.

Speaker 3: 7:16

Yeah, I was just adopting Siberian huskies and just I didn't have a clue. I bought a kick sled and I bought a dog sled and then bought all the ropes. Have a clue, I bought a kick sled and I bought a dog sled and then bought all the ropes, and then I just YouTube, kind of reading books and YouTube and trial and error, lots of accidents, and yeah, it was a lot of hard work, that's for sure. And do you?

Speaker 1: 7:35

still have dogs.

Speaker 3: 7:36

No, I just have one Husky, but he's just a bonehead that I love. He doesn't pull sleds, he doesn't like going out in the rain too much, yeah, but uh, yeah, we all adopted them away to um actual dog rate, like dog teams. So one of the females actually went on to like win a bunch of races, which was kind of cool and what didn't?

Speaker 2: 7:57

the dude that did that won this year's iditarod. I think he did it with all rescues. Pretty sure that was the. That was the deal. So he was determined he wasn't gonna be once. He trained for a bazillion years. He was gonna be all rescues. He was gonna train them for a year or something like that. I don't don't know all the details, but it was like holy crap, I thought, because that's serious stuff, man yeah, it's a a lot of hard work for you get like three, four.

Speaker 3: 8:22

Well out there I was getting more but three, four months of winters that you get to actually use them on the sleds and that the amount of work it takes all year to get there is just incredible. Even I only had I had five dogs at one point, but the the team is mostly four and that was hard work. Just four dogs, yeah, it's a lot of dog. We had a lot of good friends that dropped off a lot of moose scraps and helped feed them cool.

Speaker 2: 8:48

So before we get to your big trip, where do you, where do you normally trip, what? What are your normal outdoor adventure pursuits?

Speaker 3: 8:56

I know you like to fish you're also a way better fisherman than I am I don't know about that, but yeah, yeah, I don't really have spots I love to go. I'm not too big on parks. It's not nothing against parks, I don't have any reasons. I tend to like going places where no one's gone before, so I usually just kind of look on Avenza or maps and just find rivers and like go exploring by foot. As far as like canoeing, tomogamy is definitely a place I've traveled over the years, and then just local areas around here in mattawa river um, we have highway 533. That's all full of small brook um splake mostly, but also brook trout lakes and rivers, so that's a great place to to go and explore and then yeah, you're west, you're North Bay, right.

Speaker 3: 9:47

Yeah, I'm in North Bay area, sorry, yeah. So coming from out west it was kind of hard like paddling some of those rivers and the salmon and the eagles and the mountains. I'm like, what am I going to do in Ontario? And I was kind of bummed out. But then I got here and I was just like it didn't take long to be reminded why, how beautiful it is up here, you know, and it's not much different really.

Speaker 2: 10:07

yeah I mean there's a you know you're, you're into, you're into granite, you're into, you know, windswept pines, it's that sort of a deal. But there's, I don't know, I don't know, I never can quite figure it out. There's something about it like like look at how, so, so, so, from, certainly from our perspective, because we've been asked a number of times like why, why do you just do Ontario people? Cause there's so many of them and because they're so awesome, like as far as guests go, right, we don't we're. We have been trying to branch out a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 10:39

The community here is extremely strong, extremely supportive, because there's so much cool stuff to do, so much amazing things to see. You know, I, until my, our eldest and I were paddling through I want to say it was Algonquin at some point and I looked up and went I think that's a bald eagle man. Do we have bald eagles up there? Well, I don't know. So then we came home, we researched, I think we looked it up on the internet as opposed to youtube or going to the library. But uh, yeah, I was like cool, and then, and then we saw a bunch down on the french. You know, it's like that's awesome, that's a massive bird of prey. I had no idea.

Speaker 2: 11:16

So getting out there and doing stuff with, yeah, the community it's, it's a. It's a weird thing. We we, um, had a had an amazing chat with a dude from saskatchewan recently and I think it was probably pushing three hours of just yakking like we did it. You know, yeah, it was, I'm sure it was a 40 minute segment, but we, we ended up yakking for hours like and it's like yeah, it's, there's not so many people here, there's not so much, it's not there, there are some, but it's a.

Speaker 2: 11:45

It's a slightly different deal, whereas here, you know, you go to the whatever outdoor adventure show and it's like hey, hey, hey, you know, you see all your, your, your cool youtubers and stuff.

Speaker 3: 11:56

Yeah, it's a very welcoming community, that's for sure. Yeah, cool.

Speaker 2: 12:01

Well, so let's unveil the big prize. Tell me about, tell me about what. What went into planning 15 days, 160 kilometers, that's like that's a. That's a pretty epic trip. That's much as it's not. So. Epic adventurers yeah, that's an epic trip. Like I don't see how. That's not what. How long did it take you? Where do you start? What resources do you use? Give us the. Give us the spiel man.

Speaker 3: 12:29

Yeah, I uh. So I started working for Shopify and they had this thing where after five years you get a month off free, like paid. So I was just like right away when I got closer to five years, I was like I know what I'm using my time for, because when else will I have an opportunity to have that much time off? I guess.

Speaker 2: 12:48

Certainly in a block.

Speaker 3: 12:49

Yeah, because they never go in a block like that.

Speaker 2: 12:50

You can maybe take two weeks, that's it.

Speaker 3: 12:52

Yeah, exactly, and it could be any time of the year for me, so I can pick when I can go. I decided on spring because I didn't want to wait till fall, decided on spring because I didn't want to wait till fall just never know what happens with work, I guess and uh, so I wanted to do it in spring, um, and then I was just trying to think of places. Wabakimi was up there. What other places? Uh, yeah, I was just thinking of all these different places. I guess I had out west in mind at one point with one of my friends and, um, I was just looking at the logistics of all that. I was losing too many days traveling and the cost. And I've traveled all over Tamagami. I've done a lot of the north, east and south, but not so much northwest, and there's definitely parts that I haven't touched. And I was just looking at it. I'm like you know what I'll have if I just go an hour and a half away. I reduce all the travel, all that cost, and I can get on more time on the water and in the forest. So I decided on Tamagami. So that was step one, and then I just had the backcountry map and I just sat there for days like daydreaming. That's like my favorite thing to do. I just I planned about maybe 10 different trips, started watching YouTube, started researching blogs, looking at different aspects, and then it just kind of came to me. I think the tree planting, like Gamble Lake, the Beauty Lake Road is where I planted for like probably three years I was on that lake all in Elk Lake and Golgonda area Shining Tree. So I was like that seems like a bit of a calling like start at Gamble Lake and then Backroads.

Speaker 3: 14:26

Bill I'm not sure if you heard of him. He's a podcaster, he owns the ecology, he's a director at the Canadian Ecology Center here in Mattawa. He's on CBC Radio often and he did a piece on Florence Lake which has those petroglyphs and I was like, okay, that's something I'd like to explore. It seems like a hard lake to get into. So I went from Gamble down to Florence and now I just started looking at Lady Evelyn, which I did a couple years ago, so I want to incorporate that in the trip. So I decided to go north of Lady Evelyn and then head towards Diamond Lake, which is kind of the center of Tomogami, and then I'm paddling down towards um Diamond. Always mix it up. It's not Wabakimi, it's um Wabimaka Lake River which connects Obabaca and then down to Emerald. So it's just a kind of like a dead center, like down to Florence, up down the center of Tomogami and all the way to the south and I'm ending ending on Emerald, which is also a special place, like I'm starting in a special place and I'm ending in a place where my partner's family there's a lot of ashes that have been spread there in Manitou and Emerald area because they're from Bear Island so their old trap lines used to run kind of in that area back in the day. So they have an aunt and an uncle and a grandmother that they have their ashes there. So it's very. She's going to pick me up at the end of the trip and we're going to spend a couple of days on that lake and we've been going in the last couple of years just to like tobacco ties and just kind of stare at the lake for a while and just relax with the dog. But it's a very special place for her, so it's a great place to end the trip. Very special place for her, so it's a great place to end the trip. So, yeah, I got the.

Speaker 3: 16:06

That was the trip that and I part of me was like I have all this time, am I? Am I like bailing on myself and just making it easier and like skipping out on Waba Kini, should I? I kept that in the back of my head Like maybe I should switch up plans and do something bigger. But I once I decided on this trip, that's when I got down to the notes and started writing like distances and safety, route plans and just kind of like going into the major planning. And then I got into like food gear, yeah, just all the logistics involved. I mean I considered flying into Florence at one point. All the logistics involved. I mean I considered flying into Florence at one point. The cost was a little too much. There's shuttles to get from Tamagami to Gamble. I'm hoping that it looks like I have a ride which is kind of nice, so I'll just yeah, my friend and girlfriend are going to drive me down hopefully, so that'll be nice to avoid those costs.

Speaker 3: 17:03

So, yeah, I've just been planning. I think the biggest thing now has just been what gear am I going to bring? And the food like I've already started dehydrating, just like the berries, and I'll do corn and peppers, just so I can build meals. But yeah, I got about 10 day menu planned. I feel like I will buy some meals. I listened to your podcast with Camp Kitchen and you know I actually didn't know about freeze dried versus dehydrated, so it's just like back to the drawing board. I'm going to, I feel like I'm going to support his business and that's where I'm going to get the freeze dried portion into my planning and then the rest I'll just dehydrate my own meals, which I love to do. But even just like the calorie intake per day, you know I'm usually not that big on that stuff. I just eat what I can and I don't eat too much some days and lots of the others. But this, this is a big trip where I need to be, need to be, have those calories in me, that's for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:00

You're going to stay on top of. On top of that, your your your burn rate.

Speaker 3: 18:03

For lack of a better term, yeah, exactly yeah, so I created this master spreadsheet where it's like everything I add equipment, wise, gets added to the master and then adds the weight pack weight and then same with my menu as I add food, um, it'll add the weight to the final, the final tally. I guess, just to be just to have something that I can print out and have a visible, like visibility of what I'm bringing. But yeah, it's a, it's a. I've got like a journal here that's got about 10 pages and the spreadsheet and it takes a lot, like you know, you just want to plan, plan, plan Like there's. There's always bad luck, but you can really reduce it by really good preparation and planning.

Speaker 1: 18:46

People have told us that's part of the anticipation of the whole trip is the planning and trying to get the details just right, Looking forward to making sure that you actually got the food on point. You got the meals that you wanted to have done. I think that's part of the fun.

Speaker 3: 19:02

It has to be because it's such a big part of it and everyone that does it loves. They go camping afterwards. That's the reward. But I love the planning part and I love I call it mise en place. Like a chef, I love having all my gear out on the room and just looking at it and just prepping and then taking this gear out, maybe adding something, or just like what's that old bushcraft, like everything should have three uses almost. So just coming up with ideas of like, oh, if I bring this rope, this will be my bear hang, this will be my canoe tie, this will be this, and you know, multiple use for everything. So, yeah, I just I've been packing and repacking in my mind already and it's fun. It's a fun part of it for sure.

Speaker 1: 19:46

This is a solo trip, curtis right.

Speaker 3: 19:48

Sorry, I did solo. That's a big part of it. I know a lot of my especially my parents like why don't you go with someone? For the safety reasons? But that's a big part of this. It's like a. It's a. I'm challenging myself, that's for sure. This is a big trip. I've never done anything, let's see here. I think like six, seven days has been the biggest trips I've ever done. So this is double that. I have safety plans. I know I can get out earlier, like through Sandy Inlet or the airplane or call it Eco Lodge, you know, but at the same time I don't want to bail Like I want to push myself to be there that long. So it's gonna be challenging. I'm gonna have some ups and downs, that's for sure. I'm already, as we get closer to the date, I can feel that anxiety building of the trip and yeah, it's all part of it well, yeah, this is it's late, late, late May into June, right?

Speaker 3: 20:42

yeah, I'm gonna go May 26 I guess that's the week after long weekend, yeah, I believe. And then, yeah, I'm planning 15 days. I feel like my trip is about nine to 10 days. I mean, you can make it a lot smaller too if you're really wanting to push and lightweight. But with the double carries and my, my unofficial motto for this trip is nothing but time. I just keep repeating that. So it's like I get on those portages. If I have to triple carry, I don't care. I'm going to pull out my camera and watch birds and take three carries and spend two hours on the trail. So that's kind of my motto. I don't want to. Last thing I want to do is injure myself and and myself and leave early, Aggravate a tendon or a ligament or something, or twist an ankle or just fatigue.

Speaker 2: 21:33

Anything can happen. So, as somebody who really hasn't done like, I'm on terror parks all the time, that's me. How do you do if you're in a more wilderness setting? Wilderness setting, I keep bushwhacking is what keeps coming to mind. How do you, how do you plan, like when you're talking about it was was it the back roads, uh, that you used for the maps?

Speaker 3: 21:56

um, for the maps I used. Yeah, the back country tripping map, and then avenza.

Speaker 2: 22:00

Yeah, that was it so are there, do they lay out campsites and that sort of jazz? So you have a rough idea of what you're, where you're going.

Speaker 3: 22:11

You don't know how much clearing you're gonna have to do or who's cleared it or what have you yeah, they're unmanned parks but, um, I know derrick, derrick outdoors and I did the lady evelyn loop a couple years ago and there's definitely portages that aren't marked clearly or that weren't there and they're just like next thing. You know we're going down rapids and then we're waiting for a or we're waiting for rapids and they never appear. Just you know water levels and then, yeah, campsites, you can just never know. I guess, like I've had one map show a site here and then the main map showed another place. It's like where is it actually going to be, kind of thing. So it's not as like as algonquin. You know, when you get there's a designated site, it's there, it's going to be there that's a big orange tag on the tree and stuff.

Speaker 3: 22:57

Yeah, yeah, and that's the other side of it too, is someone could be there. So you got to watch, like if I'm pushing on a day, like I just want to reach this campsite by you know, by the sun down, and then all of a sudden you pull up and someone's there. It's like, oh no, you know, I didn't book it. It's not, you have to book to permit to camp, but you don't book the actual campsites themselves.

Speaker 2: 23:19

Yeah, so it's first come, first serve yeah, a bit of a bit of a crapshoot. I mean I get, I get the, I think I get the allure of it. I'm a bit anal, retentive myself, so. So, knowing that this is where I'm going, like I don't, I didn't, never minded booking a lake, right, because there's six sites on it or what, what have you. And sure as all get out, I will paddle past the first one. There'll be somebody on it. Second, one, third, fourth, fifth, so we're on the sixth site, the farthest one away, whatever, but at least I know I'm on this lake, I'm on a site. So, if I can plan, we can get there an hour before sundown, we can get there two minutes before sundown, but we can still get there before sundown.

Speaker 3: 24:08

That's good too, too for safety as well, like if you can't. You know, tomogamy is pretty like. In the heart of tomogamy you don't really see a lot of people, which at this point anyway, so that's kind of comforting it's coming man.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Everywhere else is insane. Like, if you can book it. Like if you can do that process the five months and whatever. The a, they're all gaming the system. B it's booked. Like it is booked man. So when they don't have the opportunity to go to the provincial parks, guess where they're going?

Speaker 1: 24:35

uh yeah, I was just gonna ask bug season, because it's april may may.

Speaker 3: 24:42

Yeah, it's right, at the arrival of bugs, I'll start when, when they're just well, it depends on the weather, I guess. But when those leaves start to open up, I'll be out there and that's when the bugs come out. So I've just worked with bugs my whole life. They don't really bother me. I don't even wear bug jackets. If they're in the peak of the season, if I'm fishing, I'll wear a bug thing over my head, but I usually lift it up so I can just cover my ears, cause I don't like them chewing on my ears as long as they're not biting the tops of my feet.

Speaker 3: 25:15

I don't really, they don't bug me.

Speaker 2: 25:16

But black flies. I don't mind mosquitoes so much, I mean I I hate the noise when you're, especially when you're carrying a canoe and you can't do anything about it. I hate the noise in my ears when you're walking through that marshy bit of business. But they don't. Their bites don't really annoy me that much. Black flies, on the other hand, because they love to just chew behind my ears, to the back of my neck and stuff. That makes me a little bit insane yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 25:38

I'm like one of those lucky guys I found that out tree planning where, like I, uh, they bother me more, just like bothering me. Like you know, like the peak of Black Fleet, we were wearing like ski goggles and like T-shirts over our face and but some people just like get eaten and swollen and I would just like I wouldn't even get itchy, like knock on wood, I'm prepared. I brought bug spray and a bug net for sure. Just, you know, you want the port when your hands are busy. That's when I, that's when they really start to bite.

Speaker 2: 26:09

So if I have two hands on a canoe, I better have some bug spray, yeah yeah, I hear you, but thomas and I thomas and I actually bought one of the original bug shirts because we were doing planning an earlier trip, a end of may trip, and uh, it turned out we it didn't play out and and I was kind of mixed feelings about having to cancel the trips, like later into June or early July. Not so bad, I could probably deal with that fact, you know. So I lost whatever 150 bucks. That's probably a small price to pay here at this point. So what other, I don't know, share, share, share a trip, one of your, one of your six or seven day solos, or share a trip. I know I'd see you take, uh, your daughters out with you, just like I don't know how much you muck about with them. Um, if they do, if they do, you know, a long weekend trip with you or something like that, what's? Are they digging it or are you dragging them kicking and screaming?

Speaker 3: 27:07

Well, they're teenagers so they don't dig anything. But yeah, when they were younger it was definitely easier, for sure, because I just forced them. Now they're teenagers, they're like ugh. But we do go to parks every year, like Martin River Park or Tomogami. They like that, they like the toilets, they like the beaches and stuff, and I know it's not for everybody. So I don't want to push them to a point where I want them in bug season and getting rained on and suffering Just because I enjoy that.

Speaker 3: 27:41

But I've taken them on the last few years. I've taken them on backcountry trips. We went on the Mattawa River which we got rained on and bugged out, but they were troopers, which was awesome, and they still talk about that memory. So it's like, even though it was a bit of a sketchy memory, they still talk about it, which makes me happy. Um, and then the next, but you know, sorry, the next day after the bugs and rain, we paddled up to the waterfalls on the Mattawell River and it was just like incredible and I think they saw that balance of like okay, like sometimes there's rewards, you know, like, push yourself and get out of your comfort zone and it's just so special to see them on their own paddling near the water, like pushing themselves to get closer to the falls, and I can tell they were enjoying their time. I always kind of remind them that after too.

Speaker 1: 28:29

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:29

Was that you enjoying your time?

Speaker 3: 28:32

No, just checking, just checking. Last year I was really proud we did a two night back country trip. So like I got a bug tent. When did we go? Because there was no bug. It must've been early spring, I guess, because there wasn't very much bugs. Go because there was no bug. It must have been early spring, I guess, because there wasn't very much bugs. So that was okay and I was proud of them.

Speaker 3: 28:50

Like they didn't really want to go, I did all the planning, all the packing and forced them to go. But once they were out there, they were giggling and singing in the canoe and laughing and just like I really let them know that time was like just want to stop here for a moment and reflect on what's happening right now. And they and they acknowledged that, which was nice and I was a very. I think that was a good transition for us. I think they they liked it, they had fun and I have video proof so I can show it to them before the next trip too. But yeah, they don't like to admit it, but they're not, they're not big, I don't think they're gonna you know who knows in the future, but I think they, once they're out there, they do appreciate it and enjoy themselves. So I want to give them that opportunity. Like I, I think they'll change in the future just the way they were raised. I think someday they're to find solace or whatever in the forest. They're going to find that.

Speaker 2: 29:48

Well, I, I, totally, totally agree. I mean, look at so you in your mid to late teens kind of get forces the wrong term but get pushed towards, you know, getting out in nature, doing, doing those things, and look how it has played out for you. The amount of people that we talked to that were, you know, uh, the only time I got to spend some time with my dad was out fishing in a canoe or scouts, or you know, it's the, it's the it's in those, those formative years. Get out, get some enjoyment out of it. At some point down the road it will come back to you like you will. You will go, yeah, you know what I want to get out and do that stuff. I you know.

Speaker 2: 30:33

For me personally, I had an insanely busy life from early 20s into, I don't know, 40 ish, maybe something like that, and I still managed to, like, I did a lot of skiing on my very small amount of time off, but I would still go and even do just a three, three day drive into some piece of dirt campsite. I don't care, man, I'm plunking down, I'm cooking stuff over an open fire, I'm slapping at bugs. I'm loving this stuff. So nice. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm proud of them. I'm slapping at bugs. I'm loving this stuff.

Speaker 3: 31:06

Nice. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm proud of them. I'm going to continue pushing them and this year we'll go. We'll plan another big trip and I think the back country is a good like around here it's easy to to go not too far. So for them for me, it's not that fun. Well, it's not back country, but for them it is backcountry. Like we're paddling to a random island on a lake and in the middle of nowhere and so, yeah, they, they enjoy it. I'm gonna keep pushing them to get out at least once, like once a year.

Speaker 2: 31:40

Talked about winter camping a little bit, that's out of the question, but I'll just continue to do that solo and you just keep suggesting so so one of us didn't, didn't want to be doing backcountry camping, uh, but but managed to say, okay, we'll give it a shot, uh, last year. So we did a three. It ended up being a two night storm was coming in and we needed to get the hell out of there. We're doing, uh we're currently planning a five day with some friends, uh, through um point grandine down into philip edward island on georgian bay. Uh, it's like that would have been like three years ago. That was a no. Uh, none of that's happening. Absolutely not Now. Okay.

Speaker 1: 32:32

Somebody's persuasive.

Speaker 2: 32:34

Somebody pastors a lot.

Speaker 1: 32:36

I was being nice. I know you were.

Speaker 2: 32:38

I appreciate it sweetie, when it's nonstop, it's like, oh my God come on.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Oh, all right, shut up Exactly.

Speaker 3: 32:49

I just have to change change. I call it glamping. It's far from glamping, but when I go with my girlfriend that's what we do. Yeah, she likes to have certain things and that's okay with me, like if, as long as we're going outdoors, we um her connections with tomogamy, with her family, so she likes to go there and squirrel lake road, although it tends to get pretty busy. There's times where you can kind of sneak out there in late fall and just camp off the car camp essentially. And yeah, she likes, she likes to get out.

Speaker 2: 33:20

She's not too big on the type two fun though but car camping still, like you said, getting out there man like, okay, it's fine, well, let's do a weekend, let's go do car camping and I'll get my type two next weekend. Whatever, however, it needs to play out for sure, yeah, yeah all right, that's it for us for today.

Speaker 1: 33:40

Thank you so much to our special guests, curtis laflesh, from the not so epic adventure on instagram and youtube. Please do check him out, check us out while we're there, and if you want to talk to us, we are at hi at supergoodcampaigncom. If you have a question, a comment, if you have even somebody you would like us to interview, we would love to hear from you. So it's hi at supergoodcampaigncom, that's hi at supergoodcampaigncom, and we'll talk to you again soon. Bye.

Speaker 2: 34:05

Bye.