If you're someone who has a passion for cut flowers, or environment, and wants to make the world more beautiful, you're in the right place. Whether you grind flowers for pleasure, or profit, I'm on a mission to empower flower enthusiasts, and professionals to help change the world around them. Whether you're just starting out and need a helping hand, or we're looking to scale a substantial flower business, I'm your cut flower woman. Welcome to cut flower. And hello, and I'd really, really like to welcome Scott Shepard over when actually, for me, it's the evening for Scott, it's the morning over to our podcast. So Scott is drinking water, and I'm drinking wine. So that will give you the sort of where we are in our time zones. And it is a Saturday, so I think I'm allowed. So I'd love to, I mean, with a name like Scott Shepard, it really feels like you ought to be a TV producer or an author or something. It sounds really like your parents gave you the name Scott Shepard like, or maybe you're going to be some sort of, I don't know, Explorer or something. It sounds really strong name here. But it's, it's lovely to have you over on the podcast today. We first met in Boston way back in August. And I've been a fan of your podcast for some time. So I had a bit of fun at the flower podcast. So do tell us about yourself and your background and how you came into this wonderful world of flowers.
Scott Shepherd:Well, this, I'll try to make this short because I know it can be a long story. I'll make this short. I have been a gardener for quite some time. I was that 1415 year old guy that was the member of the African violence society when everyone else was 50 years older than me. And I love to grow and show plants and and that was in the garden. And so it's no surprise to anyone that I ended up at the University of Georgia. I got a degree in horticulture. I you know, my professor who's been a guest on our podcast, Allah Dr. Alan Armitage. He's okay. You know, he was also my advisor. So he was like, okay, Scott, what do you want to do now? You're getting ready to graduate? What do you want to do? And I'm like, I don't know. I love it all. How do I pick one area? I feel like I'm sure you know, I'm, there's how do you just choose one thing when you've got like, 10 things you like? And so I lined up these internships and I thought, Okay, I'll do some internships for a couple years. And I'll figure out what that thing is. Well, he got a phone call from someone who was an owner of a wholesale company, a floral wholesale company. And they described me perfectly just didn't have my name yet, you know. And so I decided, when I heard this, I interviewed with them. And I'm like, Okay, this really feels right. And right out of college, I went into the world of floral wholesaling, and it was just a perfect fit every weeks a new week. There's always seasons, there's always different flowers. I didn't have to dig holes and ditches. But yeah, I got to enjoy all these beautiful flowers. And I you know, with my, my attention span issues, it was always something new and exciting. And yeah. And so 32 years later, I'm still Yeah, I'm still here. So I my it must be good. It must, must fit. So yeah.
Roz Chandler:Yeah. And it definitely does fit in the whole wholesale market. We'll talk about that a bit later on. But it's very different in the US and is in the UK. And it's like you say something new every day. And it's fascinating. And no, you don't have to dig ditches because we planted 18,000 tulips today and we planted lots and lots of ditches. We there were seven artists and it was hard work. So yes, at that point, somebody said you want to join the wholesale market? I said yes, definitely. But yeah, our listeners will be interested in the wholesale of cut flowers tell us how it works and how it works in the US.
Scott Shepherd:Well, I think different wholesalers do it differently. The ones I've worked for, have typically, we tried to do a combination of domestic products and import product. We I've been fortunate to be a part of two wholesalers, both of which then and now probably bring more domestic product into the building than any other wholesaler even close to us. We just feel strongly about trying to support us products as much as possible. But they're still because of weddings, trans demands are still in need for some imports. And so obviously we do that. And so it's a combination of the two. Most wholesalers, you know, they're selling to florist or selling to wedding and event companies are selling to your business to business, you know, maybe hotels, maybe restaurants, things like that people where they use florals, on a weekly basis, not just here and there, but on a weekly basis, some wholesalers branch out and will dabble in retail a little bit. Some wholesalers are more, you know, tried to have local product, which is one of my passions. So we always are trying after that, and you know, and I feel like overall, I think a lot of wholesalers have come and gone recently as the probably the last five years, you know, a lot of them is because you know, things are shifting trends are changing, demand is changing, the kinds of product people want are changing. And if you don't change with that, you can often get left behind or struggle. And, and so it's it's interesting, it's an interesting dynamic. I mean, we could talk wholesale for hours. So I don't know if that if it's
Roz Chandler:in the UK, they have no local product at all. It's an imported product or nothing. So there is not enough big growers that could could give to the wholesaler. There are some but the cost doesn't work out. So the wholesalers are inputs only. And therefore the flower farmers who are growing, have to find another route to market can they can't find a wholesale market, which I find quite staggering, really. Maybe you could change that somehow. But at the moment is 100% inputs. 100%.
Scott Shepherd:That's interesting, because there's so many wonderful seasons and climates and flowers and plants, people out there that grow amazing flowers locally. I know we've had Shane Connolly on and he and I've had conversations you know about British flower week, and you know, some of these things to promote that. And I hope that helped as a trend that changes for you guys, because you guys have such a wonderful climate.
Roz Chandler:Yeah, we do. I mean, we're growing probably 11 months of the year now. And once we start to go tulips, which we're trying, I'm trying to do in January, February, March, and we have a 12 month season, which we've never had. And then even if you have a 10 month season, but yeah, it's quite interesting, maybe I should just most of the, I suppose most of the wholesalers in the UK are owned by the Dutch. So their Dutch own. So they're bringing in from Holland. So which of course means Colombia, and Kenya and Ethiopia in the main for us, some South American, mainly Kenyan, Ethiopian. So maybe we need to shake that market market up a bit. But it was quite interesting to see that the wholesalers in the US were taking local products. I mean, that's amazing.
Scott Shepherd:Well, I will say this, I think that when it comes to this specific topic, I think wholesalers around the world need to be shook up because, unfortunately, their lack of supporting local markets, local flower farmers, you know, not necessarily, there's always the big guys, right? You know, like here in California, we've got, you know, Sun Valley, we have Kenya, we have all these big, big farms that do, you know, the wholesalers by their product, they have a lot of great product, it's when you start scaling down into smaller, more specified, you know, the specific growers or you know, smaller growers. They have a harder time breaking in. There's a lot of excuses around that. But I think that that's definitely something that can be improved pretty much everywhere, but especially sounds like there, and it sounds like the wholesalers probably gonna get in trouble for this, but might have a conflict of interest.
Roz Chandler:Yeah. Who knows? Maybe it needs shaking up a bit. So tell us about your podcast, why you set it up and the philosophy behind it. It's been going some time now Scott, hasn't it? And you're you're very consistent with it, which is always odd with the podcast. How do you manage that? Yeah, that's
Scott Shepherd:a challenge these days. But I will say we've been doing it four and a half years. And for probably five or six years ago, I had really long commute into Atlanta. And I mean, I would spend three hours a day in the car, and I got tired radio and I listened to you know, all these books and all these different things. And when it came down to it, I finally, I'm someone who told me about podcasts and I'm like, I don't even know what that is and Anyway, so once I realised, oh, my phone, my phone has an app on it for that. It was like somebody opened the candy store and said, Take whatever you want forever. And I was just like, this is an amazing tool. This is an amazing gift. And I anyway, so for a couple of years, I tried to digest a lot of things. But of course, anything formal was on the top of my list. I saw recently you had Deborah on your podcast. And I listened to her for quite a long time to and some other podcasts that you know, and it's just like, I don't know. So then I started some of the people that were guests on their podcast, I knew personally, and, and a lot of those podcasts, they were shorter episodes, or they would talk about different things. And I'm like, I know this person, and there's so much to this person than then could be covered in that period of time, or whatever. And I don't know if it's because I just had personal relationships, or what it was. But anyway, I'm like, I talked to my family and my kids had all the gear, they had all the recording, I mean, because they were gamers and stuff, they were doing all the stuff. And so they had all the gear so so it was like and they and of course, we met we started off as a family business. And it's still been a family business sort of to this day, my youngest son edits or episodes. You know, I, my wife does our website design and handling all my emails for me during the week when I'm at the wholesaler. And then weekends like today is spent in production and just you know, recording and all this kind of stuff. So it's a challenge to say the least. But I started it because I'm like, there's so much more, and an eye being my little ADHD, self and love. And yeah, remember
Roz Chandler:every entrepreneur worldwide,
Scott Shepherd:or good, then I'm gonna have that, but I'm just saying, you're in college. You remember when I said I just loved it all? Well, the podcast has given me the opportunity to share it all. And so whether you're a flower farmer, or a huge, you know, million dollar wedding and event designer or photographer, or, you know, brick and mortar shop, you know, I want to I want to talk to you. And I've worked with so many of these people or people like them for 30 years, that I feel like I have something in common with all of them. And so we just sit down and we just chat. And sometimes it's a lot more story. And sometimes it's a lot more just dig deep into some topics. And, you know, it's kind of a little bit of everything, which is what I liked, because I'm like, sometimes when you do the same thing we can we we can week out if you just feel like it's the same. Everything's the same, right? And so, yeah, just stuff up and keeps it interesting. Yeah, it's
Roz Chandler:amazing how you do that with a full time job as well. Because, I mean, I struggled. I had two podcasts, and I've now merged them into one. And I struggled with the consistency but I'm back on back on it again. So it's fine. But it takes a lot of effort. And you've got to put some work in and but what you can get it I listened to podcasts the whole time. I'm the same as you I was out in the garden, I was in the car, I was out walking the dog, oh, I need to listen to something I need to listen to something. And I, you know, obviously I probably as you would expect Scott and your episode recently on the one about cooperatives was very interesting. So. So we'll come on to that in a minute. Because that's a major difference in the UK market as well. So tell us about some of your guests you've had on the podcast, you know, most interesting as funniest or even one that you found quite difficult. We don't need to name them.
Scott Shepherd:Thanks. Thanks for that. No, um, ah, wow. You know, it was so funny. I was working on a project and I was looking through all of our guests, you know, we've had, we've had officially 200 episodes, and, and well over that technically with bonus episodes and things like that. And it's just, it's just so hard. I know, I mentioned Shane already. Shane is so funny. I had worked with Shane when he was in the States. And he would often be in cities where we had a connection, but yet we never met and so I would actually supply a large portion of his florals for wherever he was, because they were close enough but not in Atlanta. And so I felt like I no shame. In fact, even when we started he was like, Don't do have we met and I'm like, No, we've actually never met. But yeah, I feel like I know you. And so and he's brilliant. I mean just truly, just so amazing. We've had so many you know one of Some of the things like recently, I was really excited. This past summer, I had the opportunity to meet Dr. Solomon liong, who is an aifd member and a designer in Hong Kong, we had a hard time breaking into that area, because language barriers and things. And when I met him over the summer, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, we, you know, I would love to have you on the podcast. And he agreed, and it was just fascinating to hear about, you know, Hong Kong, you know, he has a Flower Shop Business, he does. Weddings, and events and things like that. It was just fascinating to hear about that. But you know, we had stuff, you know, like Aaron benzocaine, talking to her about dahlias and different cut flowers throughout different times of the year. I mean, that's always fascinating. But then, you know, there we've had these episodes. This year, especially in the past, it was Sean Lowe. But we had Charlotte Smith and Christy Lopez, and, and just talking about mindset, you know, as entrepreneurs, you know, this is a part that, you know, it's fun to talk about flowers and design, and how did you grow this? And when to grow that? And then all that, but how many times are do we feel isolated? And do we not have the self confidence we need to do what we do. And when you're so isolated? Sometimes you do feel like, am I the only one that's been through this? And there's all these mind games? And so I'm really proud of that work, because I feel like, you know, there's, there's a lot of levels to being in the flower business. And in trying to create content that speaks to all of those, it's really important to me, because I deal with it, too. I mean, I don't know about you, but I deal with some of the same struggles. And yeah, and I don't know, maybe it's just me trying to get a free therapy session. But at the same time, I it's just, I just feel like it's really important. And so I'm glad that we have that opportunity to do that. I know one of the things that I share that. So do you remember the World Cup, which I hear is going to be in your neck of the woods? When it was in Philadelphia, Asheville was announced three years ago. Yeah. And I watched it from work and Bart Hassan won. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is this is incredible. One of his students who listen to the podcast that teaches at a local community college here in Australia, reached out to me and said, You need to have him on your podcast. I'm like, Well, I would love to have him on my podcast. And you know, so when you have a fellow teacher, at a community college sitting there, telling us this and introducing me, as literally within two weeks after he won the World Cup. We had him on our podcast. And I mean, it was just such an incredible story to hear how he, how he has learned what he's learned where he's learned where he's, you know, trained in Japan and other places. I mean, it's just, it was incredible. So I mean, we've had so many great stories, and I just feel like we can all learn from other people's experiences.
Roz Chandler:Yeah, I mean, I'm taking it as mental health month in January, and being interviewing quite a few people about mindfulness. And I interviewed someone from LA yesterday. And we talked a lot about perfectionism, and how flower farmers cannot be perfect, because nothing in nature is ever perfect. And we can't control it. We cannot control nature. We can't tell it what to do. It's not perfect. And we have to get over it. If you're a person who struggles with perfectionism, then that's an issue. And so yeah, I spoke to him for about 40 minutes. And it was a therapy session. And, and afterwards, I ordered two books, which I thought would be one of Brandon Brown Books, and another another book that she recommended, but it was really interesting. And we are running a business course at the moment for startup flower farmers. And we find that the biggest problem they have is competence. The biggest problem, can I do it? Will I do it? How do I do it? What if I'm not good enough? What if nobody buys what I produce? Can I make money out of this because their second career is generally in it. They've had another career beforehand, in something else nursing, your teaching. And now they're doing something completely different and they haven't had a business background. And it really is hard. It's an imposter syndrome that jumps in and says, Now you can't do that. Don't be silly course you can't do that. What you mean you're actually going to go on business and do it yourself. And I yeah, I find that. You know, I'm teaching the marketing and web and social media and really, it's there's a lot more that I can be teaching them. Absolutely. Yeah, it's quite interesting.
Scott Shepherd:Well, the thing too, is to keep in mind is I know you're We're saying that for flower farmers, but beginning for us beginning designers, I mean, it's, I think it's a, it's a human condition that we all that we all deal with. And it's, and a lot of times those feelings make you feel like, gosh, I'm the only one that feels that way. You know, you feel in, you're embarrassed to even say those words out loud. But we're all thinking, and we're all feeling it. And it's, it's, I'm glad, I'm excited that you have the opportunity to share that. That's awesome.
Roz Chandler:Yeah, I've got some exciting interviews lined up in the next weeks. So we're going to share that in January, because January is a very dull month, isn't it? And we'll be talking about, you know, mental health and gardening because because the two go together and about how nature didn't get just get out, just go out. And it's for you, you're with flowers every day. So apparently, the happiest people in the world are gardeners, florists, and people who work with flowers. So you're right, you're in the right place. So because it's creative, and it's, it's beautiful. And your mind is taken somewhere else. And that's the whole point. Sure. So differences in the UK and the US market there. We've already established the wholesale market, which is interesting, but there are so many differences I found when I came over to the US and I met lots of flower farmers. You have strong cooperatives, which I would love that to work in the UK, to tell us how that tell our listeners who have never come across a cooperative, how they work, you know, obviously, I saw a recent podcast that you did on this. But how do these cooperatives work? I know some of them were, were actually profitable businesses were set up as a business and others were more corporate cooperative, where they shared the roles and the responsibilities, which is a mindful in itself mindful, and I can't imagine what how people do that. It's almost like,
Scott Shepherd:yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's so funny, because I'm glad that this thing called cooperatives and collectives has happened, because there's so many wholesalers that have closed the doors to these farmers, that it's kind of like, okay, now, what do we do? Right? You know, it's like, how do we? How do we move our product, and you can do it individually. But by by harnessing other growers, and you all collectively working together, it's it's possible to not only supply more flowers, but it's sort of an expression that a rising tide raises all ships. And I know a lot of people, you know, when I've had conversations about this, they're concerned about, for example, Well, isn't that like working with your competition? And, you know, what about that kind of thing? And it's, and that's a very, you know, how do you do pricing and, and all this and, you know, let's just say that almost everyone that I know of, that is involved in this, this style of marketing, or this style of business has only experience really positive outcomes. I will say, depending on how you structure them, it can be stressful. I will say that it's important that you find a model that is profitable for the cooperative itself, not just the individual farmers, but there's overhead, right, you've got sometimes a separate building, you have a meeting place, you have extra coolers, you might have to hire a person or two or three, to help manage that on market days. Some of them aren't open all the time. Some of them are open one to three days a week. Some of them may open retail, like on a Friday or Saturday for flowers that are leftover. They do different things. And it really depends on the you know, that group of growers and how they want to approach it how they want to, you know, make those decisions that work for them. You know, some of the I know the interview I did recently one of the collectives had, I guess it was technically cooperative had the farmers were so spread out from being closer to the coast to being a little bit more inland, higher elevations that they had different microclimates that allowed you know, maybe this person started with dahlias first, but this person ended with dahlias first, you know, I mean, maybe, or whatever the crop may be peonies, for example. So yes, there might be some overlapping but overall it was it. It can be a community driven thing that is very, very powerful thing really very powerful. I know that some of them are harder to do than others, depending on maybe the size of the farms or the objectives of the farms or, you know, do I have one acre but own 20, and I'm planning on growing 20 acres someday with flowers, it's not going to be stressful on the co op. And as a total, some of these businesses are privately owned, some of these businesses are owned by the collective. So I mean, it's just different different situations. I know the Connecticut flower collective, they have 28 Different growers. It's privately owned by one of the farms. They have the facility, the building the structure, the employees, that they have all of that, and but yet they still work with 28 other growers. I mean, that takes vision to be able to do that. And it's very successful. They actually make money as a collective. They actually, you know, to pay their overhead and things. But yeah, it's a really interesting dynamic. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's something that I think is very powerful. I know here in Nashville, where I'm located as a wholesaler I'm with, we don't have one here. So my goal is, I don't know if it's possible. But my goal is to try to work with local farmers under our roof, like a collective little different pricing structure, because of our overhead, we have a lot greater overhead, because we also have delivery vehicles, you know, we provide an extra level of service than quite normal cooperatives or collectives would, but yet, we also have 52 weeks worth of traffic to kind of move products. So we're working on that we're gonna see how that continues to work. This year, I will say it's been highly successful. We've we've managed to move, literally Thau I mean, 1000s 10s of 1000s of stems of local product on top of our California, I'm not counting like California or Oregon. For my I'm not counting domestic product. And when I mean local product, I mean, within an hour and a half of Nashville, we've moved 10s of 1000s of stems every week that we can do that. So yeah, it's been it's been fascinating. And I hope we continue to grow that. But that might be a great answer for you guys.
Roz Chandler:I think I think it would be a great answer, I think, because actually, the whole supply chain is not right, the supply chain isn't right, because you got the you were making it right, we are making it really difficult for a florist. So if a florist is doing a big event, she probably has to travel to five different farms. And she has to go and collect. And she may have spent all day in her car. And she may have got some corn flowers from that, and some some dailies from that one and some roses from that one. And she and it's just I mean, I've spoken to him, and she's just making it too difficult. Because all I need to do if I'm going to wholesalers and the Dutch wholesalers is go online, put what I want in my basket and arrives at my front door. That's got to be it's easier, much, much easier. But the market at the moment is driving to buy local and buy British and be sustainable and eco and all of that. So the florists are going, Oh, I know I need to be and I know that that's what I've got to do. But you're just all making it too difficult for me. So if we had a cooperative of farmers who were in, I don't know, 30 kilometres of each other 20 miles, 25 miles, something like that, then that seems the most sensible option that you have somebody who has cooler space and is there the whole time and taking the product and you have a technology solution at the front end that basically makes it easy for the florist, because I saw that and they're doing it late at night. They're ordering what they need to order. And you know, quite it can be quite late because they've forgotten something. And unless you make it easy, they aren't we are never going to succeed in that in that market.
Scott Shepherd:Yeah, it's really hard. Yeah. Well, I hope you guys figure that out. Because you have too many grape growers to kind of be held back by by the big boys. And like I said, I might get in trouble for that. But that's
Roz Chandler:we like to during the market, that's where change comes. That's where innovation comes. Absolutely. So another module when I was there, and went outside Boston to five foot farms, which was really amazing, was to see this CSA model working where actually it looked to me like they'd sold a lot of stock before they'd actually put anything in the ground. So the investment for them. Because the hardest thing for a flower farmer is to know where they plant everything. Like I have a plant in 1000s and 1000s of tulips and I haven't sold one yet. I kind of hope I've got a market for it. I kind of know where it's gonna go, but I'm sold one yet and I haven't got a subscription based model and no one's given me any money. And I've bought all the bulbs and I've got all the products and I've taken all the labour and I haven't sold anything yet. Whereas in the US this whole community feel of subscribing to a local flower farmer. And having regular deliveries of flowers or picking flowers up is really quite common. And I thought, why haven't we tackled that whole thing?
Scott Shepherd:Yeah, it's an amazing thing. We actually, I just got done recording a small lesson on this topic. And so I feel pretty versed on this. CSA. CSA stands for community supported agriculture. And so if you have a supportive community, which let's say, maybe you started at a local farmers market, maybe you work with some floors, we didn't matter what it is. But as you've grown your business, you reach out. And it's a way for agriculture, the started with vegetable farmers, too, who have bad cashflow during the coldest part of the year, to get cash flow at the beginning of the year that will help carry them through their business. And then in return, you get a weekly box of vegetables, well, that was a no brainer for flowers, right? I mean, you can do the same thing. It's a little, it's a little trickier, because there can be some nuances and climates and things and timing sometimes. But five, four farms was an amazing place. They used to do this. They used to do subscriptions, and CSA, and they kind of still do a hybridization of both of those. Subscriptions can be the difference between a CSA and subscription is you might get a subscription That's twice a month, maybe the second and fourth week of the month, and be every single week, maybe once a month. I mean, it can be a very regularity depending on what you want to pay for. And then they they scheduled it out or and do that. Well, the thing about it was is five forks started with doing like a lot of mixed bouquets, which means what you've got to grow lots of different kinds of flowers. And over and over time, they honed that in to growing much less variety, but many more stems of the things that are so popular like dahlias like peonies, like tulips, like all these things. And so every season, they have like a main crop, then you have I think a period in the summer for a couple of weeks when they do a mix, okay. But they have the ability to let people know and to book that weekly product. And then usually they find different locations around the city where they may have drop off points for people to come pick up. Some places we'll even do like to your door delivery depending on how you know the area big of an area that might be in so it's a really brilliant model. And it's a way again to provide it's a win win, you provide cash flow from these farms and and you provide them with the finances, they need to get off the ground and start their year. Of course, they grow extra product, right that they might sell it other, you know, other revenue streams. But But yeah, it's a great way to support your local flower shops, that flower shops and flower farms. And yeah, I don't know. Does that answer your question? I mean, there's so much to it. I just
Roz Chandler:Yeah, yeah, it's we've done subscriptions, but we haven't done CSA very well. And I think the whole community thing we've probably not done very well. So I'm starting actually next year, I'm going to tackle it and try it. And you know, within a designated area are delivered door to door kind of thing. So you know, you commit to a 28 week season and I will deliver a weekly and you will have a mixed bucket and every week I will turn up at your door and I will deliver but it's quite new. So that will be interesting to see how that works. You know, I'll be going off in my little old Morris Minor 1960s little car and it's all about fun really. So we'll see we'll see it's just another avenue. I mean, we try lots of different avenues but it will be interesting having seen it work I'd like to see it work
Scott Shepherd:yeah, please do another thing that's fun that might help help people build community is doing you know maybe once a month you do a pick your own situation where people come to the farm, and then you you're directly connected to these people then and they see what you do they see all the work in it. They see how hot it is they see all these things. They might they might be more interested into a CSA or subscription because it's way easier
Roz Chandler:than pick your own. Yeah. I might be doing pick your own with tulips I can assure you another difference I found in the US is that you do you know you're very proud to buy local and Actually, the cost of flowers is a lot higher in the US than it is in the UK. I don't know if that's because we've been flooded with imports for so long that the price has decreased in the UK. But if I look at what you're charging in the US for flowers versus what we're charging that there are poles apart, I just honestly don't know why, why that I mean, I know the Dutch government invested in the 70s, into a wholesale market, and they're bringing it all into Holland and flooding Europe, really generally, that's how it's working. So most people in UK think that their flowers come from Holland, which of course they don't, because we've got the same climate. And if they did, we could grow what they grew. So the roses on Valentine's Day definitely do not come from Holland. So they were very clever, they invested, they built wholesalers, and they built a whole market and our whole industry aren't being a wholesaler for Europe. And so therefore, that kind of flooded the market, which has decreased the price. So what you can get for a stem was staggering compared to what we could get for STEM. So I'm hoping now, I mean, we never wanted Brexit, but I never went to Brexit. But having had Brexit, the price of imports is so much higher now. That maybe now the flower farmers will be proud to be able to charge what their product is worth. Based on the fact that whole market is slowly increasing so much, and that people will attend to local because of a price will drive the market. So price will say right, okay, this is a market, we're going to drive this market, where can we get this at the best price. So we may be able to put our prices out. But that was the thing for me, I thought wow, you appreciate it a lot more than we do. And the price is brilliant. If I could sell in the US, I would? Well, I think
Scott Shepherd:that is you know, when you look at your cost of goods in the US, so much of it is freight. You know, I was speaking I interviewed somebody the other day, and we were talking about the price of flowers in LA versus on the East Coast. And it's just so again, so much of its freight, and even having product there, you know, where some of it comes from Holland and it's flooding in from Holland there, that freight percentage is very minimal compared to bring it over the ocean. And so it's it's very different. And then you guys don't I think have the same agricultural inspection process, I'm thinking that we do. So then that's another that's another added expense that comes with all of that. So it's, it's, it's very expensive to have imports and the cost of the flowers are, are inexpensive. But by the time you add all of those other things, you know, it does drive the prices up. And so that gives us the opportunity. And when I work with local flower flower farmers, that's one of the things I tell them, I'm like, Okay, this is where we need to be not because I can get the flowers cheaper. But when I add all those other expenses, it adds value to your product. But I'll say this, you know, one of the things that we that I personally have worked on and with is, you know, there's let's just look at the basic flower, I'm thinking right now. snapdragons. Okay, so there are so many of you look at the Dutch, you look at what they produce in snapdragons, or wherever they're, you know, peddling them from. And it's a very standard mix. It's a very standard varieties, you know, you know, the basic, you know, the varieties, you know what you're going to get, well, this is where the local farmer farmers, I'm like, Okay, well, you can grow those crops, you can grow those same snaps, because you think, Oh, wow, those are really popular. Or you can grow something that's different, like the more open face or butterfly type snapdragons, which they're not growing, and they probably won't ever grow. And you know, because it's not streamlined enough for them, but you can grow them as a local farmer. And you can have that and that's a unique product right there. So it brings added value, and people can say, well, I can get this snack Dragon for less. I'm like, okay, mine are smaller, mine coming colours, theirs don't fine. But mine do things those don't because they're so tall or they're so stiff, or that flower columns are long. This is more Designer Friendly. This is more elegant, and this has more play with it. This is more movement. You know, these things that designers love so much now, you know, by growing different kinds of flowers. I know we got in some awesome local chrysanthemums and I was really sceptical people would pay the price for these things, because they're not like cheap South American imports, okay. They're much more expensive to produce. Well, people went crazy over them because they were different. They looked More, they look so stiff and rigid, they add more movement to them, they came in colours that you don't see at the grocery store. They can't you know, and so in or the wire service, you know, florist, you don't see these kinds of products. That's an added value that you can charge for. And it's so important.
Roz Chandler:Yeah, I think you've hit the nail, you've hit the nail on the head that really flower farmers should be looking for different varieties. Because there are so many, you know, there's so many British flowers, for instance, that can't be imported, because they don't travel very well, daily doesn't travel very well. Right. But you know, in the UK, we grow you know, coneflowers don't travel well, I sweetpeas don't have a where all the British annuals me major Sami, there's no longer none of that travels very well. So. And actually, that's what farmers are growing. So I think there's some lessons about that about having a premium product because it is a premium product and being different about it. So yeah, I wait to see what I can charge my Hanoi for my run up to some noise. I guess that was a bit of elegance for mine. Really?
Scott Shepherd:Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, they charge a lot for them. And, you know, as a market value to force and thing. So they hear they they're not? They're not the same price. That's for sure.
Roz Chandler:So going back then, Scott, who do you think inspired you that and you've talked about some of your lectures when you when you were at college, and you've talked about who's inspired you to do what you do? Wow. You know,
Scott Shepherd:it's so interesting, you asked that because I, I feel like I do get inspired by designers and things. I don't know that the who is as important as the what flowers truly inspire me. I see something. And I'm like, I don't know what piece of Earth on this planet that flower grew on, but I want it, you know, and I'm like a dog on a hunt for a bone. And I want to find it. And if I can't find it, I'm gonna say I'm going to shoot to a local flower farm right now. Or somebody, I must say, I really wish you'd grow this, I would buy all of it if you would grow it. And, and I think there's so many times I I've been doing this for such a long time, I have worked with some of the most amazingly talented floral designers, I have been there helping them pull their flowers to help them pick their palates. I've helped them sometimes physically, I've been on the ladders with them doing installations. I've done all that on top of you know, not many people know this, but I used to also grow flowers. And so when when my farmers wouldn't grow what I wanted, I'm like, Okay, I guess I have a degree in horticulture, I can do this. And so I would wear them. And you know, it's just, it's so amazing. There's so much out there. And I think I just am really good at picking winners when it comes to varieties. I'm really good at seeing something and seeing 100 applications for it. I don't know if you can see behind me, but there's this green rose. That is a new rose from an Ecuadorian farm. And when it came in, everybody looked at me like I lost my mind because it looked like a gigantic Brussel sprout. And it did not like a little cabbage almost, I mean, not a pretty one. And and when it started opening, everybody was like, what is that? And I'm like, it looks like a cross between a peony and a hellebore. And it's, it is now people are like, like from Utah messaging me. How can I get this rose? And all this crazy stuff? And it's like yeah, I mean, sometimes you've got to think down the road when you look at these flowers. And I think that I know that doesn't really answer your question, but I really feel like that's what inspires me is just beauty and, and seeing flowers. I know I saw an Australian grower on Instagram the other day, and they were showing the I've never seen it anywhere pink flannel flower. And in I don't know that it was my the most beautiful flower I've ever seen. But I know the popularity of flannel flower and I know that people would probably wake out over and I'm just like, Gosh, I really wish I hadn't. And someday I will. But But yeah, I just I think flowers just inspire me. And there's just so many amazing ones and the seasons change all the time. So it's always something new.
Roz Chandler:Sorry if you're on a desert island. We have a programme in the UK called Desert Island Discs and people are allowed to take three things with them. So if you're on a desert island, which three flowers would you have with you?
Scott Shepherd:Wow, okay, well, first of all, it has to be dahlias, because I would be obsessed with starting my own breeding programme. And I know one Dahlia would probably bring me about 100,000 varieties over the course of you know, three years. So that is a treasure box I would take with me is Italia. Ah, gosh, hydrangeas, as mundane and boring to some people they may be is truly one of my obsessions for many, many years. And they're just getting more fabulous. There's so many more varieties and yeah, I'm pretty obsessed with Hyperion does that last one? The this is hard? Um, gosh, there's so many How can you pick one more? I don't even know. Um, yeah, I just I don't know, I guess I would have to say probably lie lock if I could grow. Because, well, you know, I've never lived anywhere relying, like thrived. And I would love a desert island is probably not the place. No,
Roz Chandler:but you don't need a UK climate for lilac.
Scott Shepherd:And that's, I mean, that's an island up there somewhere. So
Roz Chandler:definitely not. No, I can get Lila Yeah, I could do like,
Scott Shepherd:I don't know. I mean, you made me pick something. I mean, I could pick 1000 days earlier,
Roz Chandler:it was really interesting. When you mentioned about working with flower farmers and talking to them about what you'd like them to grow. That would be a really interesting conversation to have, you know, to talk, I talked to my local florist because I supply of you, what would you like, what tulips would you like, you know, we they obviously want them to be different. They don't want the reds and yellows that you can import they want, you know, the parents, of course, and the fringe, they want them to look different when a customer comes in. So I think there could be more of that. I think there could be more communication to between florist and flower farmers to say, Okay, what do you want us to grow? We'll grow what you want us to grow. But tell us what you want. And that could be an interesting conversation, that doesn't really have Sure. doesn't really happen.
Scott Shepherd:No. But one thing I do tell people, you know, a lot of times flower farmers either don't have time or interest in social media, because they don't, you know, they don't embrace it a lot of times, which I understand. But I will say that, you know, I and I've shared this on my podcast before, that I follow people in just about every time zone in both hemispheres around the world. Because there's always seasonality, there's always new things. There's always like, I found there, we have something, I'm going to totally destroy the name. I want to say it's pronounced to Lotus or something Matilda looks like a spiky pink clothes, every kind of flower. That's beautiful. Okay, work? Well, I found it's big brother that is a larger, more white, larger, like almost as white bottlebrush looking thing. And the flower of this smaller version holds up well. And when I saw this bigger version, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing. We need to grow this. But I found that on social media, and it's just, it's becoming a student. It's becoming a student of the world and who grows what, where, when, and especially, you know, here, I don't even know what zone I'm in anymore growing wise, because I moved. But I think it's seven B or something. So here in our temperate climate, you know, especially go around the world. And you know, in England go around the world and look at other flower farmers, what are they growing? And that would fit your climates, right? See what they're doing? See it maybe follow, you know, follow some of the, you know, you can go to the flower podcast website, and we have all kinds of huge wedding designers that have amazing taste and flowers. Make sure you're following them on Instagram to see what are they using? What are they, you know, what are they like, what colour palettes, you know, because sometimes you might have a flower. I mean, I was I was talking with a hellebore grower here locally that we source a lot of local hellebore from. And he they kept telling me they're almost done. They're almost done. They're almost done. And I've grown hellebore, we at one time, you know, had a couple of acres of hellebore that we dealt with. I know when the season's over. Okay, I've done this now for 19 years. I mean, I know when the season's over. And this was like two or three weeks before it should have been over and I'm like I just don't. I said do you mind if I come visit the farm? And I know I'm sure come on up. So I went to the farm and I'm looking at all these flowers and I'm like, Oh, those are really pretty. Are you going to bring those to me next week? Well, no. Why would you want those I'm like because they're are amazing. And they're like, no, they're not. They're all muddy looking, or the colours are very clean and pretty and pristine. And I'm like, exactly. And that's what everybody wants right now. And they're like, you've got to be kidding me. And I'm like no. And, and sure enough, we were able to extend the season, we got them lots more money for their crop. And because we went on for another, I think we ended up going two weeks, because we had a warm spell that kind of did shorten the season, but they just their own personal preferences got in the way of sales. And sometimes knowing, you know, knowing what trends are out there, what are florist looking for, makes all the difference. And you might have might have some diamond in the rough that you could be making money on. And you think it's a weed, I mean, truly grasses,
Roz Chandler:we're all into grasses this year, big grasses, everyone's going mad. Yeah, into classes. And then the big other things is going to, I think, for 2020, food, lots of peaches with a strong colour. So you tend to get a burgundy with an apricot or something really quite, because the year just gone, we did everything was green, and white. Everything was green and white. And, and trends change. And I will be I will be popping over to your website. And I know we've got all of your contact details in our show notes. But I will be popping over and following some because I think that's inspiration, I think some of the massive installations they're doing are inspiring. So you could look at that and go, Wow, you know, that would look really good when I did it and that marquee and why haven't I done that before. So that's why I shall be heading straightaway after I'm going to sit and watch the television and follow people on Instagram. So I'll keep you posted. So what next few Scott, then you've got a YouTube channel, we've got a podcast is there going to be a book, what comes next? What comes next for you?
Scott Shepherd:Well, we did go to YouTube about a year and a half ago. And we are we are investing time and energy into that more. So we have grown a little pretty good following over there. And just trying to figure out what content and those people want in the world of YouTube. And we're doing that we are looking at, I'm going to share it here because now it'll make me it'll force me to do this. We are looking at trying to create some membership content. So that way we can do more one on one consulting and do more, you know, helping people whether it's sourcing product or figuring out what to grow or how to budge something just really how to market and move local stems. I just feel too passionately about how I how I see the next five to 10 years progressing in the US. And I think we will need and I do mean need more flower farmers, I think that the world of imports are going to only get more wacky, and the supply chains are going to get a little more fragile. And I think customer right? We need. Yeah, absolutely. And after the pandemic we learned, you know, we can't count on everybody on the other sides of the border. We need to, there's no reason why we shouldn't be supplying our own steps. So hopefully, we'll see a lot more of that.
Roz Chandler:So I want to thank you for coming over on my Saturday evening, Scott, and I want to thank you for coming over. That's absolutely amazing, and really, really interesting. And it's lovely to see the differences and how we can incorporate some of that into the UK market. And I just yeah, it's every, it's always a learning. So I look I look forward to meeting you in 2023 at the conference again, I don't know where it's gonna be. I know where it is yet. But I look forward to seeing Roz.
Scott Shepherd:I want to say it was it was just so wonderful to meet you back at the ASC fg conference. And I was thrilled to get your invitation and it's always a pleasure to talk flowers with another podcaster. So congratulations and thank you so much.
Roz Chandler:Thank you very much, Scott, take care if you're someone who has a passion for cut flowers, or environment, and wants to make the world more beautiful, you're in the right place. Whether you're growing flowers for pleasure, or profit. I'm on a mission to empower flower enthusiasts and professionals to help change the world around them. Whether you're just starting out and need a helping hand, or we're looking to scale a substantial flower business, I'm your cut flower woman. Welcome to the cut flower podcast.