So I'm joined today by Katie Calella. And we came across each other in business. And I thought that Katie would be really good to have a chat today about business strategy, business visibility, and aimed at flower farmers and who traditionally struggle with the whole social media, visibility lives on Instagram, all of that sort of thing. And so I thought it'd be great to introduce it to Katie, Katie, and I've been working together for a while. So tell us a little bit about your journey, Katie, and where you are today and about the work you do, what are you up to?
Katie Colella:Hi, Roz. Thanks for having me. So I am in sunny south Wales today, which is nice for change. And I am currently working as a business mentor and strategist and Facebook Ads Manager. my entrepreneurial journey started quite young, I started my first business at 18. And apart from a few years of my 20s, I've been self employed all of that time. So I've seen the huge growth of kind of social media, and the big changes that we've seen in online business along that way. And it's still rapidly obviously changing and evolving, and growing, and so forth. So I've seen it all in that time, I've grown and started multiple businesses in service, as I am now in product online offline, have kind of done all the different things. And I think for me, that kind of part of the accumulation that have taken me and got me to where I am now, which is, you know, I absolutely adore what I do now. And I've never been happier, because it's very much about that freedom for me and having the business that works for me in a way that suits me. And in my style of success.
Roz Chandler:Yeah. And you're working for yourself is all about, isn't it about flexibility and making sure that business works for you. I always say that. If you don't want to work weekends, don't do weddings. Absolutely, or flower markets, or you're much better sticking to a funeral market or to a local bouquet delivery market, work out what the business you want the business to do for you. And then work from there onwards, other working things, you don't really want to
Katie Colella:do everything. Absolutely, I've totally been there as well, you know, my last business that I sold about six years ago, I think now, I started from nothing, it was all about having that flexibility and freedom around my den very young children. You know, it absolutely took over my life, I'd be on holiday. Occasionally, I'd still have been having to work every day from even if it was any for a couple of hours, I'd be very on it. And whilst I wasn't in that business and working on it very, very, you know, all day, every day, you could see the sales slip in. So I would always I need to do something, even though I'm on holiday, I remember vividly walking around the medina in Marrakech, and one of my staff phoning me and being like, Oh, this has happened. And you know, you're having this breakdown in a different country. So that was very much I've been there and done the business that didn't work for me. Although on paper, it was super successful. And it ticked all the boxes of what people would deem has been a successful business. It wasn't working for me, and I totally fell in love with it. Because the reason I started the flexibility and freedom ended up being the complete opposite. So yeah, I am very much about setting your businesses out as you mean to go on in a way that works for you. And I know sometimes we have to do the things that are not ideal. But on the whole, I think if you can get to the stage where it's 99% in alignment in a way that suits you, that's, you know, that's the ideal. That's what we're chasing, that's what we set out to be when we set out to be a business owner.
Roz Chandler:So talk to me about business visibility, and what that actually means.
Katie Colella:So visibility, for me, consistent visibility, and I will insert that word because we can all be visible when it suits and we can take and leave it. And then we go through phases were super visible. It's about being consistently visible, not constantly but consistently visible and showing up in the places that our ideal clients show up. And I absolutely believe it is the backbone for having a successful business, you can be the world's best kept secret, you can be amazing at what you do. If you're not visible, no one even knows you exist. And it is hugely, hugely important to build a successful business. My previous business is totally built off the back of visibility, using social media, email marketing, ads, and without any of that I wouldn't have been able to grow it to where it got to simple fact of the matter. So visibility in whichever style that suits you and suits your ideal clients. I feel that it has to suit us up and your personality and has to be something you kind of enjoy, even if it's pushing those boundaries initially. But it also has to be in those places where your ideal clients hang out because if you're going visible in the wrong places, it's probably not going to kind of benefit you in the long term. Yeah.
Roz Chandler:Your clients and to oaring them and naming them and
Katie Colella:absolutely any of the objections, what keeps them up at night, their pain points, the gaps where they are now where they want to be. And I think it's one of those exercises that as business owners, lots of courses and programmes we've done over the years go back To the ideal client, and it's one of those, I think a lot of people roll their eyes and say, Oh, I've done this a million times. But it actually is super important. Because if you don't know who you're talking to your messaging is going to be off, everything you're talking about is going to be off. And again, that visibility piece is going to be out of alignment a little bit. So everything goes back to the ideal client.
Roz Chandler:Yeah, absolutely. And with flower farmers that's working that one out as well. Because, you know, we're not, we're not right, for every, every customer, we define who that's going to be. And we go, and you know, obviously, personally, I draw them, name them, write about them, what do they need? Where do they go? Where they go on holiday? Well, what do they have every year. And that allows us to get the messaging, right. But I think that's quite difficult. I mean, what happens with a lot of flower farmers and people with is that they, they are really, really, really good at growing really good. And they do have the best kept secret in the world because of the best I was in the world. And it's how they then get that to market in whatever that looks like. It's a real struggle, because it's not their forte, generally, they haven't come from a background in marketing, background and business strategy. So it's like, okay, well, we have an Instagram, you know, they generally have an Instagram account and some Facebook accounts. But where would you start? If you they've set up this flower farm, and they've started growing all these beautiful flowers? And it looks fabulous? What next? What was their visibility piece? Where did they start?
Katie Colella:I think it's a mixture of different things that again, can work for you going back to having a strategy, like you said, I work with an awful lot of creative people. So I completely understand that they, they'll start a business. And then the business element is missing from that they'd have the skills they have the outcome, they know what they're doing in terms of the business side of things, sorry, the, you know, the product or the service, but they don't necessarily have the skills to get the business side of it or grow that business and getting visibility and so forth. So for me, there's a few different things that I tend to concentrate on recommend, I would have a strategy or a plan. So if you're kind of going into these things blind, and you're winging it a little bit, and I've been there, when certain elements of my business over over the years, but have something written down, even if it is loose, even if it's not set in stone, you know, there's more than one destination to a journey, but you must know where you're heading, and work backwards from that. If it is, in terms of social media, you're absolutely going to have to have a social media presence, who's back to the ideal clients, where your ideal clients, probably Instagram, I would say without knowing everyone's ideal clients just based on that loosely, maybe Facebook, so find out where they are, where they're hanging out, learn as much as you can about them, and you need to start showing up in these different places. So you're always going to start I always recommend starting out, but you mean to go on to a lot of clients will come to me they've been in business quite a while they haven't got any freebies, they haven't got any sales funnel setup, they haven't got a process for staying in contact with people and nurturing people goes back to the strategy. If there is no strategy in place, you don't really know what you're doing before you know it a years gone by, you still haven't got any funnels in place, you still haven't started growing that email list, which is super important because we don't own social media. And I do think social media went hand in hand with email automations. And growing that email list there, the way that you can stay in contact with people, it's just another way of staying up. And it's all these touch points. So depending on what you read 22 to 27 touch points before someone is likely to buy it from you. So it just goes back again to that visibility and showing up in the right place is having that strategy. Even with just a tick box exercise, I'm going to show up on stories every day and show something behind the scene, which I'm going to feed from Instagram through to Facebook, I'm then going to show up on my feed three times a day. And sometimes if you have that written down in a bit of a plan, and you'll check you know, it's a checklist or you're you're taking this off as you go, you're more likely to stick to something if you have got a plan in place. sharing your knowledge and your values, your personality, you know, people by people to show up as you and that's one of the main things that I would say no matter what you're doing with the visibility. Don't try and change who you are. Don't try and put on an accent. Don't try and change who you are your knowledge or your you know, if you're out there and wacky and extrovert, then show up as that person if you're quiet and meek, very elegant, show up as that person, don't try and change anything because it's really going down then you know, six months later trying to stay in this personality and that persona. So always be yourself shortly your ideal clients, which we spoke about before. If they are different groups, you can share your knowledge. If you're utilising ads, whether that's Facebook, Instagram, Google, whatever, have a bit of a strategy around that and don't necessarily look at it as the be all and end or in terms of putting the thing in front of the people and then buying that thing. There needs to be you know, a nurture and rapport building with that as well. So ads can be a bit of a longer game we are seeing things change In that kind of online landscape, people are taking longer to make decisions. So it might just be a case ad for your strategy helping you be visible, even when you're not feeling up to it, or you don't want to show up, at least your ads are still showing up in front of people and nurturing people by sharing the story sharing your value, your knowledge, so they're still working for you, even when you're not necessarily leading up to it. Absolutely 100%, recommend leveraging other people's audiences. So you know, make connections network, whether that's online, or you know, you prefer in person, whatever that is, build your audience of connections, and your, your people you can work with and help each other, not just for making connections as a tick box exercise, but to actually work together, whether it's going to be masterclasses and helping people out in that sense, sharing your knowledge with their audience, and vice versa, you're going to grow your network, and you're going to naturally attract people that way, as well. So if you've got other business owners, potentially where you can, you know, very much built a bit of a community or work together, collaborate together, and get in front of those audiences can be absolutely huge. And it also gives you the practice and the confidence. So I think you mentioned earlier, a lot of people, you know, don't like going live and stuff. And I hear that constantly, constantly get told about going live and it being an issue. And all I can say to that is keep practising, I never watch any video back that I record I never have done just once it's done, it's done, I can't change it. You can't change all the names and the o's and the oh, I sound really high pitched and loud and wild. Well, I know things so I can't change it. So I just don't believe in watching it. That's not for everybody. Some people have different strategies, but do what feels comfortable to you when it's done. It's out there. I think the biggest issue for me with going live and things like that I was always quite comfortable doing it in front of other people's audiences. When it came to going live on my own page or, or something, it was more of a blocker because friends and family are there and they kind of even though it was being self employed, it was still for a long time, this big blocker of mine, so I completely understand it. But just practice, set up a group with you and a friend or a couple of friends in practice. And then just do it just press go, you know, start off small, you could do set yourself a little target, you could go live every day for seven days and just share one little tip a day. And it is you know, that old thing of just using your brain and stretch and that brain matter and that muscle and before you know it does become a little bit more second nature. And then you wonder what you know, you've put off for that six months, a year, two years, whatever it is. So keep showing up? I would say.
Roz Chandler:Yeah, I think and also with our farmers and cut flowers. It's a beautiful product. I mean, yeah, exactly. product. That's beautiful. And you've got this most pleasing, beautiful product. So it's very easy to say that these are my top flowers this month or these Yes. Yeah. Blooms this week, or this is what I'm going to be cutting today. Or here's the bucket I've just produced or I'm I always say to people carry your phone with you all the time. Yeah, absolutely. It's good tip little belt and carry it and just take video of everything. Yeah,
Katie Colella:absolutely. And like you said, it's so like my last business product. And I had lots it was like shabby chic Home wear and stuff. And there was I used to hide behind the product, which was fine to a certain extent because at least it was there. And again, like you said, used to sell itself because it was pretty it was what everyone wanted for their homes. And again, with the flowers. It's like the behind the scenes element of that is huge. Because you're always doing stuff behind the scenes, you know, you're out in the fields or, you know, whatever different elements you have in your day to day, you could literally have spent the day with me, or this is what I do. You know, this is what time I get. This is how the flowers look today, you know, you can do little slow mo but sped up of a flower groaning and there's so much you can do and it does sell itself. It's all very, very beautiful content, which does make a difference.
Roz Chandler:Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And also we can show the reality. So I do quite a lot. This is what is really the reality, you might be bleeding in the mud all over the place, or in with rain. And then this is this is the Instagram reality, Instagram feel which Yeah, skipping through the tunnels and thinking this is beautiful in a gingham dress. And the two words. That's quite funny. It's kind of like, okay, that's the truth.
Katie Colella:Yes, absolutely.
Roz Chandler:It's still farming. It's still sort of it's still
Katie Colella:farming. And people resonate with that at the end of the day. And I think when it when a lot of people were a little bit over the whole pristine curated kind of content. So I absolutely adore stuff where it's kind of real, it's raw, it's behind the scenes, especially that kind of Yeah, absolutely. It's my favourite sort of content to watch as well. So yeah, I think don't overthink it would be a good tip there for maestros because we do give so much overthinking sometimes to things that really unnecessarily Yeah,
Roz Chandler:I think you're right. I think I never watch a video About like you said, I go live and I don't think about it. And sometimes if I've caught a glimpse from I myself think Oh, no. And then I've just and because it's still all about visibility, for sure. It is,
Katie Colella:it is, I think you're about carrying your camera with you. I am that girl that used to absolutely hate having her photo taken. Whenever someone took a photo of me, I think I was smiling nicely, you know, time the photo come out, I'd have one Aisha, I'd be pulling her face, it was always that you could knit and it was like an ongoing joke in my friendship group, if you've never get a nice photo of me on when I started the service based business, and it was me that I had to sell. I really struggled initially. And then my husband kind of just was like my ongoing little paparazzi. And whenever we were in a different location, or add a little bit lipstick on, he'd be there, right? Come on, let's get a photo of your scope and done with. And that helped, because then once I put a few of those out, and I had this bank of images, and it wasn't my husband to start with. It just helped. Okay, well, they're out there now. And no, you know, it's not a case of being like, Oh, look at me, I'm amazing. Maybe it is, but that's okay to own that as well. But you have to get past the whole, you're putting yourself out there constantly. It's okay to do that. In when you're the business owner, and it's difficult, initially, yeah. But I think just do it. And then yeah, afterwards, you do get stronger
Roz Chandler:retreat here on the farm on the 19th and 20th. Go well, for flower farmers. And it's aimed at flower farmers. And we're going to have a sort of professional little branch shoot while they're here. So they'll do a big tour and isolation. And now we'll end up with some imagery, because that's also it. It's also about staging some images well, and having some brand backup photographs you can use when everything else is not going great. And you can use what you've got in your back pocket.
Katie Colella:Absolutely.
Roz Chandler:I think that's quite and also,
Katie Colella:you know, when the person when a person A is having that done, person B can be sharing the behind the scenes and setting up and changing outfits and all the rest of it. It's a bit. There's multiple levels of content going on as well, I think for that sort of thing.
Roz Chandler:Yeah, yeah, a close round with all the clothes on it. So tell us about your current business, then Katie, you're obviously doing Facebook accounts, which was where I came across you. And then in business visibility and business strategy, what does what does a day look like for you?
Katie Colella:Quite buried, which is how I kind of like it. I work with solely female service based businesses on the whole people that are looking to grow their list. become more visible, I don't do anything organic is purely the Facebook and Instagram ads. There's various different strategies for that whether someone's doing a free training or challenge free masterclasses. free downloads and that type of thing sort of launches the mentor and and strategy side of things. I suppose I've always done it, I've always done the mentoring for quite a long time, the strategy, although I've done an element of that I've recently taken a certification in that just to add another string to my bow really, and something else that I offer. Because I love watching women kind of grow. So I do quite a lot of that's the aim as well, more and more VIP days with people that are quite intense days, either in person or online, I'm spending 10 to four with them, whether we're looking at their ads, their launches or their business strategy. And planning that out looking at the gaps and then trying to help them find solutions and planning to forget to fill those gaps. And a lot of it does come down to lack of visibility or wanting to be more visible or having a fear of visibility or not knowing where to go to become extra visible. So it's an awful lot of I spent an awful lot of my time doing that sort of stuff directly and intensely with people planning out that visibility piece. Definitely.
Roz Chandler:So what would be your top five tips on visibility then for business owners such as the flower farmer? Yeah, I have probably
Katie Colella:I've probably said most of them to be honest, as I've been rabbiting on. So show up as you make sure you have that strategy or send me a bit quicker because I've probably rabbeted on. So show up as you is when I mean kind of tips and show your personality, have a strategy have a plan in place rather than trying to wing it. Do share behind the scenes tips, the real and the role. People absolutely love that sort of stuff. Having that insight into your life of what goes on behind the scenes. Do set up your freebies and your funnels and make sure you're linking those everywhere as well. Don't Don't be shy to share these things. What often happens is people share something once and then they kind of shy away especially if they've got nothing from it or nobody signed up. They kind of go oh, I can't show that again. That's embarrassing. Nobody knows nobody cares. So stop thinking everyone is watching everything. Don't be afraid to show up fairly regularly as well because most people won't see everything. We could share the same thing on Instagram, Facebook, on stories as well as the feeds, in our email list on a podcast on a blog. Not everyone is going to read or watch or listen to every single one of those pieces of content. So don't be afraid to repurpose your messaging as well. I think we overthink doing things differently. Your messaging is gonna be pretty much the same throughout your business. And that's okay to keep sharing different versions of that or different variations. So what were your ideal clients are, we spoke about leveraging other people's audiences. So masterclasses podcast summits, workshops, share your expertise, don't be afraid to share some real golden nuggets as well. A lot of people show up on master classes, really wishy washy, talk about themselves share very something very, very fluffy. And then kind of just, you know, do a bit of a sale and disappear. It's just boring. give someone something tangible, don't be afraid. Because if you give something for free, people kind of think, Oh, well, if they given that for free, what are they going to give, if I work with them, and it's you that they work with or that wherever that next step is, you know, with the flower farmers, don't be afraid to share some of that knowledge. Because people will, that will grow your expertise and your authority in the area as well. So that really, really helps build people's knowledge of you. And also that you want to go to and and actually, this person really knows their thing. So I'm definitely gonna go to them. And link everything everywhere. You know, use your personal profile, if that's part of your strategy, make sure you're on LinkedIn and your BIOS everywhere, have BIOS set up everywhere. If you haven't a website, link things everywhere. And don't be afraid to kind of give people the next step. If you want these come and get them hit, click here, check this by here. Don't forget to put those call to actions on again, a lot of people will share stories and stuff and just never have the call to action or the buy now because they're scared of actually asking for it as well. Yeah,
Roz Chandler:it's about scared about asking for the sale. You know, it's kind of I've been a sales director. So for me, that's quite natural at the end of the conversation to say, oh, and okay, I'll send you the proposal. And when we make a decision and come back and ask for it, because actually, someone else will if you don't, yeah, and that
Katie Colella:probably doesn't come naturally, I would say for most people, you know, because we kind of shy away from it a little bit. And also even sometimes stating the obvious of the next step, or what they need to do now, you know, you can lead a horse to water and you can't make a drink as the saying goes, and it is so true. You do need to spoon feed a lot of the time and make it super obvious. Yeah,
Roz Chandler:I agree. I agree. So if you weren't a business strategist, or Facebook ads and all the things at what would you be doing? What was your childhood thing? Well,
Katie Colella:God knows. I think I always had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit started like little kiddie businesses with friends and things I always wanted to make my own money. So work from about the age of 12 always been a really hard worker love working with always loved seeing that many come in, I did. I went between being a midwife, and a hostess and a physiotherapist quite a lot of the time, it was medical lead. And I did three weeks voluntary. And my local hospital absolutely hated it, and decided it wasn't for me, and then did my A levels. And at the time, there was no university degree kind of saying, how to be an entrepreneur, how to start your own business, as I'm sure there's multiple out there. But they didn't really exist. So I was like, just eager to get stuck into business. So I went to work, I should say, so I went to work for I think, eight months. And then the opportunity came up to run my own business while I was 18. So kind of jumped at that and then never really looked back. Like I said, I went into employment for a few years but always back to self employment. Yeah, yeah.
Roz Chandler:So who's inspired you would you say now in your career is inspired do
Katie Colella:really rubbish with names and remembering things? So I think there's lots of people I read a lot. And I'll absorb everything or some of it take what I want and not what I want. I'm rubbish at remembering the names of people that I've read. So I mean, someone like one of the first books, I suppose. I say business, a business, a stroke kind of mindset. And everything else was the nice Duffield Thomas get rich Lucky Bitch. And it just resonated with it because it was written in such a relatable way that I could understand. So something like that really stuck on my brain. And the last book that I just finished reading at the weekend, was a book by Claire sweet, I forget the name of it. But it's about living life. She's a financial advisor, and her knowledge is just outstanding, but it's very, very practical. And she explains things again in a way that is easy to understand, rather than I'm not into kind of complicated bamboozling things, it just goes over my head, like things kind of really simplistically explained. So check out Claire sweet if you want to learn about kind of investing and making your money grow and work for you. So that's probably one of the better books that I've read recently. Lots of the usual people you know, Stephen Bartlett Marie Forleo Lisa Johnson fan printer podcast, lots of different things like that. I listened to a lot I read a lot but I am rubbish with my brain everyone's name Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Roz Chandler:But yeah, I find I actually like Steve Bartlett. People do some love him or hate him, but I find some of these. I love his podcasts for sure. Yeah. So going on to that. Do you listen to any other podcasts? Do you listen to
Katie Colella:probably just Steven Bartlett fan printer. And I do listen to Mr. Johnson's. If I'm kind of walking occasionally, I'm not the biggest podcast listener. I go through phases and stages. Well, I'll absorb a lot more. And I remember back last year, I go through phases doing early morning walks. And back last year I was I used to just put on like stuff like Tony Robbins, and just motivational stuff in the background almost subliminally To be honest, just to keep me walking rather than going back kind of like coffee. So yeah, stuff or anything that is inspirational to be honest and uplifting. And I'd quite like anything like that Mel Robbins. I like anything that is just uplifting.
Roz Chandler:I came across this year, Roxy, no fusi we ever come across her? I don't think so no, hate this word manifestation. But she did. She has written a book called manifestation. And he doesn't really mean manifestation. It just means because for me manifestation is you think you're gonna have a Ferrari by next Friday. And you think about it. It kind of doesn't happen like that. But it was more about goal setting and quite logical steps. And it was logically written. And she's the first book she wrote, it's kind of a holiday read, which I enjoy. And then secondly, then she's done another one called dive deeper into manifestation. And it's so out of my comfort zone, which I think is probably, too but I really enjoyed it. And people who have read it have gone yeah, isn't really a manifestation, it should really be just goal setting or wanting life or if this is what you want, go after it kind of thing. It shouldn't really be called manifestation. It's kind of got a bit of a rap that word manifestation, yeah, spiritual, and it's not really going to happen quite as quickly as that. Yeah,
Katie Colella:it's taking those steps, isn't it towards these things. And, you know, I say to people all the time, if there's one thing I can advise is, just start taking steps no matter how small because a year goes by so quickly, and you can literally be in the same place. If you've taken even small steps towards your goal. Then you are going to be partway to that destination no matter what you're going to be down that path. So yeah, it's it goes back to visibility and showing up but taking the steps as well and just doing something rather than nothing.
Roz Chandler:That's right, because a lot of flower farmers started off as a side hustle. Because it is impossible to have a full time job and decide that you're going to leave your full time job on Friday and make money as a flower farmer on Monday. It isn't yet because you've got to put the stuff in the soil, you've got to create a market to take it's it's not an easy product. It's not a product that's that you can do that from and I always say to people, please transition, have your you need X amount of salary, then drop one day a week, then just do it and see if it's for you then drop two days a week and replace that two days with the income you could be making a platforming. I'm an absolute avid believer of transitioning and the same way take a step. Just do it. If the dream is to have a flower farm, then please don't dream about it for the next 10 years. Start to think about how you can make you ality now
Katie Colella:incorporate it into your existing life. And absolutely, yes.
Roz Chandler:Any thoughts on future plans? Katie, what comes next for you?
Katie Colella:I'm pretty happy doing what I'm doing. I would like to be doing what I'm doing living in Spain, though. So that personal goal of kind of, because I've built this business that I can work from anywhere. I feel a bit wasted still sitting here. So why not? That's the next step I think is continuing to build up and do what I do. And obviously if I did that strategy element, I might look to get into corporate a nickel there. I love working with entrepreneurs, it'll be corporate sponsor kind of containers of stuff with entrepreneurs. But I'm doing that from potentially Spain rather than UK for a little bit just to mix it up. And yeah, see what that brings lots more VIP days, which I just love working intensely so yeah, yeah, I'm here with the future. Yeah, absolutely.
Roz Chandler:Like the winter definitely in Spain. But then we've talked about this as now I have the advantage of Irish passport so I'm okay do
Katie Colella:take advantage.
Roz Chandler:And then I said he would have to become the digital nomad. So we're still looking at that Spanish digital. He
Katie Colella:can still Yeah, me to but he can stop travelling to yours. Don't forget because he can have the same rights as you went to your Irish passport.
Roz Chandler:Can he say that? Yeah.
Katie Colella:Absolutely. Yeah. So you're We're trying to get my husband's Italian passport, but it's a long process. So, yeah, other than that the digital nomad Yeah.
Roz Chandler:My job I've got there's a bit it does take a long process you've just got to get Yes. Yeah, I'm in that process, I had to ring ring and find out what my grandparents date of birth was. When she's not around anymore, it's kind of Yeah. So you just got to do those. Fine with the life?
Katie Colella:Yes, absolutely. And why not?
Roz Chandler:So the last bit of advice to listeners would be, what would be your
Katie Colella:advice? Do it just do it? Like, why are you waiting? Here tomorrow isn't promised to anybody. So stop chasing the dreams and try and make them part of your reality.
Roz Chandler:Absolutely. So thank you very much for coming over to Katie's. Thank you for having me. All your handles and all the ways people can contact you are in the show notes. And yes, always I could talk all day. Thank you for having me, Ross. Thank you.