Blossoming Dreams and Captivating Gardens: Journey into the Green Oasis with Jenny Williams

Welcome to The Cutflower Podcast! 🌸

In this delightful episode, your host Roz engages in a lively conversation with Jenny Williams, a passionate gardener and guest extraordinaire. Join them as they delve into the world of gardening, podcasts, dreams, and more.

Roz and Jenny explore a myriad of topics, from the use of AI in crafting Instagram posts to the challenges of maintaining restraint in the face of creative ideas. They share insights into the profound impact captions can have on social media engagement, drawing from personal experiences and light bulb moments.

Jenny opens up about her biggest challenge – the struggle with restraint, a force that keeps her buzzing ideas in check. The discussion seamlessly transitions to the evolution of Jenny's garden, a metaphorical fourth child nurtured over the years. They touch upon the emotional pride that comes with seeing their hard work bloom and resonate with others.

As avid readers, they discuss their preferences, with Jenny favoring magazines and occasional book indulgences. The conversation takes an unexpected turn as they share their childhood dreams, both revealing a surprising desire to be air hostesses.

Key Takeaways:

1. Caption Magic: Captions can be the secret sauce for engaging content on social media, turning personal moments into compelling narratives.

2. Garden as a Teacher: The garden, for Jenny, is not just a collection of plants but a living, breathing teacher, guiding them to slow down and savor the journey.

3. Dreams Evolve: Childhood dreams of becoming air hostesses reflect the whimsy of youth, contrasting with the fulfilled and content lives they lead today.

4. Favourite Flowers by Season: Hellebores for hope in winter, diva roses, and practical yet beautiful dahlias – Jenny's favorites change with the seasons.

5. Water Feature Project: The anticipation of a water feature project in Jenny's garden promises excitement, cobbles, and the soothing sound of water.

Join Roz and Jenny in this episode filled with laughter, wisdom, and a shared love for the simple joys found in gardens and dreams. Don't miss the parting promise of attending the grand opening of Jenny's water feature – a symbol of beauty, patience, and the joy of gardening.

Connect with Jenny:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelaundrygarden/
Website: https://thelaundryretreatnorthwales.co.uk

First Tunnels, leaders in domestic and commercial product tunnels. 

• https://fieldgateflowers.kartra.com/page/newsletters
• The Growth Club: https://fieldgateflowers.kartra.com/page/thegrowthclub
• Lots of free resources on our website: https://thecutflowercollective.co.uk/cut-flower-resources/
•  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fieldgateflowers  
•  Facebook Group 'Cut Flower Farming  - Growth and Profit in your business' https://www.facebook.com/groups/449543639411874
•  Facebook Group 'The Cut Flower Collection' https://www.facebook.com/groups/cutflowercollection 

Transcript

Roz (00:06.033)

I am delighted today to welcome Jenny Williams to our podcast. And Jenny is the owner of a Georgian walled garden, an amazing gardener. I know I followed on Instagram and the owner of a beautiful retreat must be on my 2024 wishlist.

I followed Jenny for quite a while and truly her surroundings are breathtaking. You want to see a sunset sunrise? That's the Instagram you need to be on. So please Jenny, tell our listeners a little bit about you, your background and how you got to where you are today. Just a bit about your journey. It'd be really interesting.

Jenny Williams (00:49.842)

Well, hello, Roz. Lovely to be on your podcast today. Well, yes, my name is Jenny and I currently live at the laundry garden. Right. So I am a wife to Tom and I have three lovely sons. And my gardening life began in my twenties when I first got my own house. And

I'm a hairdresser by trade, so creativeness is kind of within me, I suppose, but on a different level. And I got my first house and had my son. And when I was on maternity leave, I just had this burning urge to learn more about gardening because I had my own garden and it seemed natural to want to know more about that.

 My history as in parents, my mum and dad separated when I was quite young and my dad, he's probably the gardening person and my grandfather, his father. My mum's side, there's not a shred of gardening in there at all. So sorry mum. But on my dad's side, there's definitely more of the green fingers. So I'd like to think that that's probably where my roots come from.

on the quest for wanting to know more about how to have a beautiful garden and grow things and make it look pretty. So fast forward to learning about gardening. I was on maternity and making a little garden of my own and thought to myself, well, let's explore a bit more. And there was a start garden design course, a free one locally. And my aunt said, let's do this together. Let's go.

So off we went and it was, I think it was about a six to eight week course and really enjoyed it. And it just opened up my eyes on how, on how to plan a garden really. And it was all the basics and the simplicities of just plotting it out on a bit of paper. And, and I met, and also when you do these courses, you meet other people as well, who are just as keen as you are, who are sort of on that similar pathway to you, sort of hungry to learn more. And I used to find myself.

Jenny Williams (03:17.878)

Honestly, if something was flowering, it wouldn't surprise me if I'd go knock on that person's door and say, excuse me, what's that flowering in your garden? I really want to know what it is. That curiosity was within me. And the beauty of being a hairdresser was that I had a lot of clients who were also keen gardeners as well. So my goodness, I would pick their brains, the poor people. I would just go on and on about wanting to know more about gardening. And I'd found myself in my lunch breaks.

pop out to the local WI market or the greengrocers and just buy anything that was in flower. I was obsessed. I really was. That obsession just kept on growing and I made quite a pretty garden. Then I changed to another hair salon and that's where I met Tom. He was the landlord.

Jenny Williams (04:16.074)

he owned the area and the building to where I was working. So I started cutting his hair and long story short, we then set up home together. And at the time he was living in a little two up two down cottage, which had a postage stamp garden, but fields and fields around it that was owned by the family estate. And I said, let's make a bigger garden. Let's just, let's go crazy. And he said, yeah, okay then. And interestingly,

He comes from a very strong gardening background. So you can imagine the two of us together, the conversations is garden heaven. So we created this beautiful garden and had our two sons got married and did all the usual stuff. And we sort of outgrew our garden there and it sort of became crunch time. And the house that we're in now, the old laundry, historically,

would have been the old dairy to the Flan Rider Hall next door. So they would have had, they would have churned milk downstairs and the servants quarters would have been upstairs. And then it became two flats. And when the hall was sold, his parents moved on and they kept hold of the outbuildings, including the laundry here and some fields and the wall garden.

which was left, you know, it wasn't overgrown. You know, I think his father grew Christmas trees in there. They read pheasants in there. And so it wasn't in a terrible, terrible state. So the two tenants that were in the house here, they died, unfortunately, within the space of a year. It's like serendipity, isn't it? I mean, you were just, it couldn't have happened at a more perfect time. It really couldn't.

We said to one another, well, now's the moment to either keep it as two flats or live in it as a home. And we thought, right, well, let's make the house ours and move down here. Let's renovate it and move down here. So we went through that painful process because it's a listed property. We had to wait for planning permission. And we, while we were waiting for the planning permission, we decided to do some work on the garden as you do.

Jenny Williams (06:39.258)

And we just sketched on the back of a postcard and looked out from within the house to the rooms of the parts of the garden and decided what we wanted to do and set about laying it out and planting it up. Literally just the house garden we call it now. And it's kind of gone from there. We then renovated the house and moved in and carried on thereafter.

Roz (07:07.469)

It's quite an adventure to design like that and then to create something. So what does the plot look like now? Talk me through sort of the garden.

Jenny Williams (07:15.822)

So it's separate, well yeah, so you've got the house, the laundry house that we live in, and the first area we created was the immediate garden in front, and the walled garden. So there's a garden in front and then there's a wall, and then there's the walled garden, which is of its own entirety, which is an acre in size. And then there's a bit of a woodland around the walled garden as well. And we've got...

Roz (07:38.413)

Yeah.

Jenny Williams (07:43.114)

a little small patch at the back of the house as well, which we landscaped back in 2016 and 2018 that we finished that. We've just done it bit by bit as and when time allows and when we can afford it. It's just been evolved. It's sort of a mixture of formal with the hedges and the walls, interspersed with the

Romantic cottage style, the romantic being me, because I'm a romantic Tom isn't. I inject the romanticism into this garden.

Roz (08:25.713)

I've just got a view of a walled garden. You could become a cut flower farmer in a walled garden. Cause that's like, you know, oh, it's like paradise is a walled garden cause it's quite sheltered.

Jenny Williams (08:35.582)

Yeah, yeah. Well, funny you should say that. I met a girl called Hannah, well, over a year ago now, and asked her if she wanted to set up a little cutting patch in the southeast corner, which is going okay. It's going to be a slow process because she's got lots going on in her life, but I think it's going to come to something in the next year or two now. I think it's slowly taking off a little bit. So yes, but I do grow.

my own flowers as a sort of a hobby. I understand and appreciate the sheer work that goes into cut flower farming and I'm not, I hold my hand up here, I'm not a seed sower at all. So this whole garden here has been propagation by division and accidental things that have just set seed naturally and that's pretty much how we've managed to keep going with the garden really on that level.

 but I'm just not a see-saw, we don't have a greenhouse at all. And I kind of wing it a lot as well. And I think that's kind of my style. I think...

Roz (09:42.753)

works you don't need a greenhouse or a polytunnel you can have a window ledge it's fine don't need don't need an enormous amount and what about direct sow seeds you just open the packet and throw them in so 

Jenny Williams (09:48.21)

Yes, yeah.

Jenny Williams (09:56.746)

We did that actually, yeah, we did that on one section inside the wall garden and we had great fun actually. We just got sort of a cosh style seed packet and threw it underneath the Portuguese laurels just to brighten up an area. And it looked fantastic. It was brilliant. We wanted, it was purely by, we had a group, we had a group of people booked to come and see the garden in July and sometimes the garden can...

It's a bit of a transitional month here in July. You sort of go through that May, June bonanza and then sort of July and August is like a transitional month. And I panicked and had a complete wobble and thought we need something that's just going to bridge that gap. So we threw these seeds along this whole stretch along the West opposite the West border and it was a complete success. I was quite pleased actually. Yeah.

 Roz (10:46.929)

See this gardening lark, it's easy, isn't it? And also, I mean, we would have that gap in June. We call it the June gap. It actually exists between all your bulbs and everything coming and all your spring is finishing or your anacolis is just going out into May and then nothing, unless you put biennials in. You've got a month of nothing really until you're then going into your summer flowers. So we call it June gap. So it absolutely exists and it's planning for it.

Jenny Williams (10:52.714)

Yes, great.

 Jenny Williams (11:18.686)

Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.

Roz (11:21.477)

So you've got, tell me about your business. You've got two Instagram accounts. So you've got one which is obviously, tell me about them, they're different. And you've also got the retreat there now. You're hiding that one under a bushel. What's your...

Jenny Williams (11:36.327)

So yeah, I've got the Laundry Garden Instagram account, which has probably been going since about 2016. It started out as most Instagram accounts start out, where you just take random pictures of random things that interest you and of your children and of your food. And then it morphed into something I could never imagined. I still can't believe it now. I kind of look at the numbers and go, really?

Jenny Williams (12:07.083)

And yes, then there's...

Roz (12:07.329)

It is very beautiful. It's very beautiful. That's why.

 Jenny Williams (12:11.054)

Thank you. Well, it's matured and I think a garden that's sort of matured over years that has been planted by yourself, nurtured and looked after by yourself, you develop a real devoted love for it and you strive to maintain that and keep bettering it and expanding on it. And that's when the retreat was born because we wanted to...

share it with people. And we opened for the National Garden Scheme every other year and we thought, well, it would be nice to share it with people that could come and stay here and actually see the sun rises and walk around the garden in the evening and see the sun setting down past the walls inside the wall garden. So that's when we decided to put the two timber-framed roundhouses in.

 both have windows and a deck that look out onto the Cluedean Hills at sunrise. And it's sort of gone from there really. We, what we didn't want was to be a slave to our garden. And when I say be a slave, we, we wanted to, to still have it as a hobby and something we cherish and enjoy and, and enjoy with each other and our family.

and just small amounts of people coming in. So we opened to groups and we obviously have our roundhouse guests here. We didn't want to be a public garden because that would have taken away our enjoyment of it. And I don't think our children would forgive us either because I just think they like to, especially when they were a lot younger and they used to want to kick a ball around and just.

show their friends and stick a tent in the garden. And it's their garden too. And I didn't want to take that away from them either. So yeah, so the retreat account was born probably over a year ago now. And I didn't know what to do. I thought, do I integrate that into my laundry garden account? I was in a bit of a dilemma. And I thought,

Roz (14:30.791)

I've got my this is going around my head as well actually Jenny I have to say

Jenny Williams (14:34.93)

It was. And quite a few people sort of said, and I'd be interested to see what you say, actually. We thought because my aesthetics on my laundry account were purely garden and sunrises and positivity and I wanted to keep it that way and not.. 

harness that and I thought a retreat account would be quite good to just have it separately and then it has its own following. But little did I know, I was making more work for myself. I suppose I probably could have dropped in a few, you can stay here or find another way around it, which I currently have. I'm about to set up a laundry garden website. Hurrah, finally.

Jenny Williams (15:28.482)

backlink the Laundry Retreat website because the Retreat website has everything built into it so you can book everything on that. So we can sort of backlink the two and the Laundry Garden website will hopefully become the host and the destination where everyone's going to go to and hopefully they'll land on that and think yes I want to come and stay. I know it's taken me...

Roz (15:53.997)

I think the two are really closely linked. I think if you've got beautiful gardens, one of the reasons people would come and stay is because it's quiet and peaceful and has a garden and they get beautiful sunsets and beautiful, that's really why they come, isn't it? From a kind of well-being, kind of beauty kind of place. Because the Laundry Garden Instagram is a beautiful place to be.

Jenny Williams (16:11.08)

Mm.

Roz (16:19.165)

Also, the retreat is kind of facilitating that, allowing people to be in this beautiful place. So for me, I would have one Instagram account because I think they're pretty tough to do. And I don't think it has to be detracting from beauty because I don't think it does. I think the roundhouses actually are beautiful themselves. And I think just because you're taking a shot or doing a reel from the balcony or looking out on something, it's as beautiful. So it's kind of like, for me, it's all...

It's all about beauty and all of it's beautiful. So, and also there's nothing to say that the people who follow you on the Laundry Garden won't come stay in the roundhouses. They are the same people. They can be the same, not always, but they can be. And people might not even know that you've got them and that they're available and that why wouldn't they want to know about them? So, I don't know, from a marketing and sales hat, which I am, I would have one.

Jenny Williams (17:00.446)

Yeah.

 Jenny Williams (17:09.028)

Mm.

Roz (17:17.689)

But it's a hard one. It is a hard one because for me, it's the same as I've got an Instagram account and then I do funeral flowers. And you know, it's really hard. And I do funerals and weddings. Let's say I do funerals and weddings. It's really hard to put funeral flowers against wedding flowers. Because one's joyous and one definitely is not. And so I don't want people to necessarily, so I've started to call them farewell flowers for a start. And then I say, you know, that these are beautiful blooms. And I concentrate, I don't concentrate on the,

the whole funeral bit, which is horrid. I mean, it's horrid for everybody to go to a funeral. So I have to be very tasteful with that. And I tend to put my heart and soul into funerals. And that's the bit I concentrate on, you know, that we're doing something beautiful and creative, and it's just a different reason of why we're doing it. Because I did, I've got a, so I do put them on my main account because it's just too difficult. And I don't tend to take an awful lot of photos of funeral flowers necessarily. I might take the blooms or I might take parts of it.

I'm not going to necessarily take the whole coffin topper because it's not really pleasant. So you have to be quite careful when you mix two accounts together, but there are actually ways of doing it. It's still the same, it's still all me and it's still all what I work to do. It's just, it's in different ways.

Jenny Williams (18:35.239)

Yeah, it's a big leap of faith in believing in something and making it channel together and work. Yeah. But I think, yes, and I think I've sort of realised that the USP for people to want to stay here is essentially

Roz (18:44.833)

Slowly, you don't have to do it slowly. Start sharing, cost posting.

Jenny Williams (19:01.906)

the garden and the views that they get from the roundhouses. So in a way, why wouldn't they go more onto the garden website? But we'll see. We'll see how it... See how it... Yeah.

Roz (19:15.005)

Oh, keep me posted on that one. I always say it's a real conundrum, you know. It is a real conundrum. I battle with it too, because I do online courses on online education and mentoring, and on one side of my business, it's all about gardening. And on the other side of my business, I am a flower farmer and we do weddings and funerals, and I have two separate websites, but I only have one Instagram account. But it is challenging. I have to say it's challenging, because it's almost like you've got these two different brands going on. And...

Jenny Williams (19:42.815)

Yeah, exactly.

Roz (19:44.513)

It is, it is challenging, but yeah, perhaps somebody out there will have the answer to that one. So, looking at business advice, you've got a thriving business there now. What three pieces of business advice would you give for anyone who's going into a business doing anything? Let's say they're going to set up as a flower farmer. I mean, that's tough. Or they're going to set up as anything. What would you, what pieces, three pieces of advice would you give to anyone going into business?

Jenny Williams (19:49.699)

Mmm.

Jenny Williams (20:11.982)

I think one piece of advice is to always believe in yourself. I think you've constantly got to listen to what you want to do and stick with what you, you know, it's all you can listen to everybody and talk to lots of people and get their ideas, but always stay rooted to what you genuinely want to do and believe in it and just go for it. I think that's a big thing for people because.

The market is so saturated with so many things of the same caliber. Like there's lots of flower farmers. There's lots of, there's lots of retreats. There's lots of gardens. There's lots of everything, but you somehow have to believe that you can stand out. Amongst them. And the more you believe in yourself, the more you'll shine. I honestly think that is something to, it's a lesson that, because I think if you don't believe in yourself, then you're not going to.

jump up there and say, hello, this is me. No, no, and I was talking to someone about that very thing this morning and he was sort of saying, oh, you know, I'm just, I'm quite, I'm shying away from this and this leads me on to the number two of what I would say to people is to network. Networking, I think, is key to any business whatsoever. I think for me,

Roz (21:10.667)

No visibility at all. No, no. Yeah.

Jenny Williams (21:37.514)

It's been great. I'm a people person anyway. So being a hairdresser, you're always in touch with people and you're in close contact with people, you're making them look beautiful, you know, and that conversation, you know, networking conversation, and then people remember you and then you come up in another conversation and so on and so forth. So I think networking is really, really important, you know, move in circles. Of your own.

 Roz (22:09.037)

I throw my... yeah, definitely. Yes.

Jenny Williams (22:09.543)

your own field. Yes, yes. And you'll all learn from one another. There is competition, but you can learn from that and you can help each other. When I was a hairdresser, our boss, we were on a road full of other hairdressing salons. You can imagine. So the competition was

Roz (22:29.925)

Yeah, I bet. 

Jenny Williams (22:36.578)

to have their hair cut. You know, there's enough people to go around, but our boss, because he's very competitive, he would send us down the street to do a recce, to look in all the windows of the hair salons, see how busy they were.

Roz (22:45.253)

Take paper! 

Roz (22:52.025)

people I say there's enough out if there's no one else doing what you're going to do be a little bit concerned because there might not be a market and number two you know we all choose different brands for different reasons there might be six hairdressers in Newport Pagnell in fact there probably is so why do I choose one why do I stay loyal why do I go to the same one all the time do I go look at the prices of all the others no I don't do I look in the windows of all the others no I don't have I ever booked with any of others no I don't

Why do I choose the one I've got? Because I love the hairdresser, I love the brand, she does a great job, why would I want to go anywhere else? And she suits me, which is why I go there. Now it might not suit everybody else, which is why there's more than enough room for everybody. And that's what I say to everybody, I say don't, keep your eye on the competition, go and have a look and see what's in, you wouldn't want it if there were 20 hairdressers in your high street, that might be a bit saturated. So keep a watch out for it.

But don't become obsessed with it and think that there isn't enough business in there.

 Jenny Williams (23:49.582)

I think competition is good because you can become a community together and help each other. And for instance, going back into the hairdressing scenario, if we ran out of something, we've run out of a tint, can you just nip down the road to that hair salon down there and get one? And because we were all friends and we all knew each other, then yeah, we'd be like, yeah, there you go, there's a tint and make sure you bring it back the next day. And it sort of saves you.

your biscuit in the end. And I would imagine that's the same in flower farming. You know, oh my God, you know, yeah, all my, all my seedlings have died. Hello. Has anybody got some to share out to me? You know, so it's, it's all, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. And it, it's, it's a good thing to have a good community of other, other people doing what you're doing. And I think the third thing is, is to have a good brand and a good website that's, that, that showcases you.

Roz (24:20.817)

Gosh, yeah, you can never grow everything. Yeah.

Jenny Williams (24:46.442)

and your business and it's a good landing platform for people. And which is why I'm building this website for the laundry garden now is because it's all very well having a beautiful Instagram and it's, and I'm very fortunate that mine has grown and doing so well, but I think people just want a little bit more, you know, it's all, you can see all my pictures and, you know, get a bit of an idea on what's going on, but a website.

You can go to town and you can really showcase a lot more of who you are and what you're about. And I think it's so important to have that. And you can have a big fancy website or you can sort of, I think a website can be a bit like your garden. It's your platform. It's sort of, it's your way of expressing yourself. So, you know, you can land on certain websites and they can be

very simple and very measured. And that is a reflection of that person. My garden is a reflection of myself and Tom, of what we've planted in it, what grows, what flowers, what trees. So it's sort of implementing that into your website. Plant those things and make it shine and make it speak volumes about you, people by people. And I'm a big believer in that. And if you can have a fantastic website.

 Roz (26:09.827)

always. 

Jenny Williams (26:15.576)

Brilliant.

Roz (26:17.213)

always, always this way. Yeah, that's really interesting because, and also I always say to people, don't forget that these social media platforms are lovely, but you don't own them. You don't own them at all. Whereas your website you do, your domain name you do, the email data you collect, the bookings you make, that's your communication platform, which is much closer to you than an Instagram account.

Jenny Williams (26:27.224)

Yes.

Roz (26:41.817)

who the followers are lovely, but you don't know all of them intimately. You don't know where they're from necessarily. You can get a split of where they're from, but it's not the same as somebody's email address. And when you're starting to have dialogue with someone, which is what our website's for. And I always say to people, please, please build an email database and make sure you collect data. Because that's the bit you own, you don't own. Don't own social media. Anything could happen. The algorithm could change tomorrow. And from going, you know, followers, I've got my...

Follows are accelerating very quickly at the moment because something has happened to Instagram that's woken up. And I just happened to have one piece of material that went viral and then everybody woke up and it hit 1.2 million. And I have no idea why and it wasn't anything particular and it was just about a particular plant and it's for Vino and everybody loves it. Oh, it's so nice. I mean, it's very pretty, but it's not 1.2 million pretty. But we have no idea why that is. We have no idea. So we're not in really in massive control.

Jenny Williams (27:27.623)

Was that the Fabino one? Yes, that's the one.

Jenny Williams (27:34.218)

Oh.

Roz (27:39.929)

We're in control of another platform. The platform controls us. Great as it is, it does control us. And then you become really obsessed with it and it really controls you. So, all you nearly need to do is have data collection and it's brilliant. So, that's why I would always suggest. I can't wait to see the new website. When's it out?

Jenny Williams (27:45.026)

Hmm.

Hehehehe

Jenny Williams (28:01.406)

It's built, I just need to fill it with, so I'm going to spend the rest of this afternoon writing bits and pieces to go on it. So yes, I will let you know when it's live. It'll be called The Laundry Garden and it has got its own domain name, so we've got that sorted. I'd like to hope we'll have it launched in the next couple of weeks.

Roz (28:23.017)

and you're obviously going to cross link the two together anyway so that's where your crossover comes so that's brilliant

Jenny Williams (28:25.578)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I'm going to formulate some really nice newsletters and keep people up to date with what's happening here. Because you can only put snippets on Instagram and, you know, 24 hours and they're gone and you can put them on your grid. But I mean, who's really paying much attention? Really? So I think the real invested people, and it'll give me a good measure of the real, real followers as well.

people that sign up to the newsletter like you just said, which will be really nice for me because when I write a newsletter, I will know that newsletter will be going out to the real people that really are invested in here and what we're doing. And so I'll probably give them a bit more, you know, my favourite plants and what, yeah.

Roz (29:16.397)

I did.

I mean, our newsletters are full, like really full. These are the jobs you should do in the garden this month. This is what we've been doing. These are the top five daily, as we would recommend. Oh, I've read this book. Why don't you read this? Oh, if you followed up on this podcast, there was an episode on this person. It's really great. So they get a lot, you know, a real lot. And we do them weekly. So it's quite a big commitment. But I know.

Jenny Williams (29:37.426)

Oh gosh, I don't think I could do weekly. I think monthly for me. Writing is my nemesis. Honestly, I don't really read much or write much. You shove a book under my nose and it has to be a readable book in bite-sized pieces. I'm better with magazines actually, and lots of heavily based picture books that I can sort of relate to. But you know, that's fine. You know, we're not all bookworms.

Roz (29:43.333)

I know.

Roz (30:04.389)

You'll have to use GPT to help you. You have to use AI to help you. Now you change it. You can. I use, if I want an Instagram post and I'm just struggling for the right words, I will write it. I will put it in there. It will rewrite it for me. It will give it back. I'll amend it and then I'll post it. So...

Jenny Williams (30:08.731)

Uh... Nah. No! Heh heh.

Jenny Williams (30:25.098)

If I can't come up with the words, I find a quote that will... So I'll search and search and search and find a really lovely quote. I'm going to try and find a nice quote for my November post and probably put that in. However, I get moments where, and interestingly, I get really good interaction on some of my Sunday stills when I really do put quite a profound footnote caption in it.

Roz (30:29.165)

Yeah.

Jenny Williams (30:53.122)

The last one I put in was when I was on the train home from Westminster Abbey. My son had been singing there and I just, we were sitting on this busy train and I just had this overwhelming feeling of pride for him and what's just happened. And, and I just wrote a few little things down and it sounded really good. I thought, Oh, that's really good.

Roz (31:17.914)

There you go!

Jenny Williams (31:18.826)

And because my son's an academic, I got him to proofread it. I always get my husband or my son to proofread some of my captions or anything I write. And he sort of looked at me and he nodded and I thought, oh, I've got his approval. So off I posted it. And it actually did, it performed really well because I think sometimes people resonate with the captions as well, don't they, which is lovely. Not always with mine, just sometimes when I actually have a real light bulb moment like that one.

Roz (31:32.557)

Yeah.

Jenny Williams (31:48.738)

So if I can't come up with anything, I'll just go and search for a lovely quote.

Roz (31:53.441)

I'll remember that one, I should go looking for one. So what do you think's been your biggest challenge to date so far?

Jenny Williams (31:56.048)

Yes!

Jenny Williams (32:01.515)

In the garden.

Roz (32:02.649)

Hmm, just generally.

Jenny Williams (32:05.634)

Um...restraint?

Roz (32:08.103)

Ha!

Jenny Williams (32:10.382)

It's like, you have to put me in a restraining coat most of the time in this place because my head, I've got so much buzz going around in my head and the energy restraining all of that. Tom is my devil's advocate and he's the man who has to sort of, and he needs restraining sometimes, but I really, really need restraining. There's nine years between us. And so you can imagine I've got, he's that little bit older and wiser than me and I'm still this.

this force that just wants to go around everything, like a whirlwind going, I want to do this, I want to do this, can we build this, can we do that? And if we go somewhere or we see something or a magazine arrives and I'll think, oh, that garden, could we do something like that in our garden? And Tom will be like, oh, for goodness sake, woman, just calm down. So I think the biggest challenge is to restrain ourselves on slowing down and pacing ourselves.

with the whole thing, with anything, with life, with the garden. And the garden has been an amazing teacher to do that here and just to say, no, this will just have to stay in its box for a little bit and we'll come back to it when we can afford it or when we have time. But maybe we can do that little section over there instead that we do have a bit more time for and energy. And everything in this whole garden has been planted very, very small.

It's been a very long, long game, but it's been, it's been really worth it in the long run. And it's been, I've enjoyed it as well. I've always said, I've always joked with the children, this garden is like our fourth child, my fourth child. Because, you know, we've, we've nurtured it from the small saplings, seedlings.

shrubs, everything that we've planted has been on the smaller side. And it's taken until now, what, nine, ten years later with a lot of things where we can sort of sit back and go, wow. And I think our boys see it too. And they have that pride when they show their friends. You know, they all tell and it really gets me emotional because...

Jenny Williams (34:32.734)

I took my son for a photo shoot the other day because he's going to have a little bash at modelling and he kind of stared at me and said, are you going to tell how many Instagram followers you've got? I'm going no.

so sweet. He actually sort of wanted me to tell someone. I think deep down, although they joke at me, they do actually like the fact that their mum has a decent Instagram following, but for the right reasons. To me, we've created something here that hopefully they can enjoy when we're long gone as well.

Roz (35:13.261)

I mean, I just, that made me smile what you just said there. Because I got this today, this afternoon, from my eldest daughter, who's a quite, she's a corporate lawyer, so she's quite straight and she's obviously, she got something internally from another lawyer and it said, do you ever think your mom is an influencer? Because she is. And then she said, does she have somebody doing it for her? Her content slaps, whatever slaps is. But. So I've obviously got slap content.

Jenny Williams (35:39.368)

And

Nice. Yep.

Roz (35:42.582)

Whatever that means.

It's like, okay, whatever you think. But if you can inspire them and they look at it eventually and think, you know, they're not openly going to say they're inspired by you, but if they do at the end of the day, then that's all you could ask for.

Jenny Williams (35:58.442)

Yeah, yeah, true.

Roz (36:01.305)

So you're not a great bookworm, but you do like magazines. I've got, what do I do? Gardener's World, Gardener's Illustrated, RHS Gardener, and I've got hundreds of copies. And I'm sure I don't need all those copies, but yeah, I'm a great magazine reader in the bath, really. But do you listen to any podcasts? Do you read much? What do you do? What do you get your inspiration?

Jenny Williams (36:17.534)

Yeah, yeah.

Jenny Williams (36:23.158)

Well, when I was on the road a couple of weeks ago, I had a little listen to your podcast, of course. I listened to Tom Coleman's Sip and So, that's doing great. And Adam, Mike the Gardener. And that's about it really. I've sort of dipped in and out. I mean, obviously, because we've got holiday accommodation, I'll occasionally listen to sort of any TED talks or any little

podcasts to do with anything related to, you know, your, you know, getting more.

Roz (37:05.633)

I lost you for a minute. Yeah.

Jenny Williams (37:10.449)

Sorry about that. So yes, where was I? I'm sorry.

Roz (37:11.485)

That's good.

Roz (37:19.507)

But you're not a great book person, you more stick with a magazine. What would be your go-to magazine?

Jenny Williams (37:28.414)

I mean, I do, yes, I do like books, but if they're sort of, you know, I love Lucy Hunter's books. If you've got Lucy, The Flower Hunters, I went over to see her last week and got her latest book off her. And it's just so, she's just everything about her. Her house, her garden, herself, her writing. It's just like poetry, isn't it? And that is definitely a book that I've...

I've enjoyed reading through and sort of a mixture of her poetic writing and then some beautiful dreamy pictures and so those kind of things and any inspirational things. But I've got next to me here, I've got the English Garden magazine, which is lovely. Gardens Illustrated is also a great magazine. So yeah, I'm not, I sort of like to dip in and out of things really.

I was given a book. Now, someone managed to sum me up quite well. When I broke my ankle back in 2019, an Instagram follower of mine who happens to be a garden designer sent me a book through the post and it's called, If I Could Tell You Just One Thing by Richard Reid. And it's basically encounters with remarkable people and their most valuable advice. It's a brilliant, brilliant book. And it's one of those books you can just...

Pick up, skim through, put down, pick up. Whenever you sort of need some inspiration from anyone. For instance, I'll open a page on it here. Dame Judi Dench, and there's just a little section of what she said, I'll read it out here. Look for the pulses in life. Being negative completely erodes everything. If something bad happens, I always say, cancel and continue and get back on track. Love that woman.

Roz (39:27.545)

me too. I shall remember that. Yeah, maybe that's just a bit of inspiration every so often. I will all I will order that book today, actually. Because I am having a knee up. And as I'm recovering, I will probably be going through times where tough things are going to be tough. So maybe it will give me some inspiration while I'm lying on the sofa.

Jenny Williams (39:32.398)

Yeah.

Jenny Williams (39:49.994)

Oh, you can just literally open the book at any page and start reading because there's always somebody in there that you can think, oh, wow, I wonder what they've got to say about something. And it's Richard Branson, to name a few. And it's uplifting because you think, you know, they've all been there. They've all been through it one way or another. But somehow something in the back of their mind has always sort of kept them going. And you think, I wonder what that...

thing is and it's fascinating, really fascinating. Yeah.

Roz (40:22.877)

order it and I shall keep you posted. I shall message you. So three quick questions to finish with. What's your favourite flower?

Jenny Williams (40:24.621)

Oh, definitely. Heh heh.

Jenny Williams (40:32.473)

Well, that's like asking which my favourite child is. That's really mean. And I think...

Roz (40:37.576)

And you're going to say, I love them all for different reasons.

Jenny Williams (40:40.853)

I have a favourite flower for every season, if that's fair. So, you know, I love hellebores because they brighten up those winter months and give you hope for, you know, what's to come. Obviously I love roses because they're absolute divas and they're beautiful and they're smelly and you've just got to really look after, we have to look after us quite a lot, but we don't have the perfect soil conditions for them. We're not on clay.

Roz (40:44.897)

Yep. Yeah.

Jenny Williams (41:10.553)

So we do have a bit of a regime to keep them intact. And of course, Daly has came into my life about five or six years ago, and they've just sort of, once the roses go over, I love peonies as well. They're another diva as well that's a fairly, they're short, they're short in their lifespan, but their leaves on some of the peonies now are beautiful, and they can be used in flower display. Yeah, they're gorgeous. So they do have a bit of a double.

Roz (41:24.485)

Yes.

Roz (41:34.105)

Yes, going ready. Yes.

Jenny Williams (41:40.069)

give to them.

Roz (41:41.705)

also they'll probably outlive us because they live 75 years as long as a donkey. I always remember peonies live as long as donkeys and so actually they will be there when we are not. If we plant one today they will be there when we are not and that gives me some sort of like hope and some sort of like well they're much stronger than you give them credit for.

Jenny Williams (42:00.925)

Yeah, amazing. Amazing. There's one lady, I do her hair, I go to her house and she's got this really long peony border that I drool over. And every time I go to her house, I have a little word with her gardener and say, any chance you could dig up a section of some of those peonies for me, please, one day. I know, just a little bit of division. I'd love some in my garden, please, please. So one day I might get some clumps from her. And of course the Dahlia.

Roz (42:18.721)

bit deficient going on over there.

Jenny Williams (42:28.885)

who can't love a Dahlia. And I think Dahlia's would come top, top on my list if they had a scent, if they had a fragrance to them. If only they could produce a Dahlia sort of flower that had a fragrance, they would become a millionaire overnight.

Roz (42:35.278)

Yes, yes.

Roz (42:46.969)

some sort of hybridization. And there's a couple that have got a little scent, but not really, no. No, they're just beautiful with no scent.

Jenny Williams (42:50.934)

No.

Jenny Williams (42:55.513)

Yeah. So.

Roz (42:57.597)

So a couple more questions. What was your childhood dream job? What did you want to be when you were in school? I probably will. Go on.

Jenny Williams (43:01.209)

Right, right, promise me you won't laugh. You mustn't laugh at this. You probably will. I wanted to be a trolley dolly. I wanted to be an air hostess.

Roz (43:10.329)

Well, this is really going to make you laugh because I did a podcast today with Jan Ford and I follow her. I mean, you need to follow on Instagram if you don't. Yeah, her beautiful, beautiful. She has this way of taking photographs that life is beautiful, isn't it? So I spoke to her and do you know what her dream job was? To be the same as you.

Jenny Williams (43:16.665)

Oh, I love, yeah, I follow, yeah. Mm.

Jenny Williams (43:26.097)

Go on.

Jenny Williams (43:29.413)

No! Oh, she's a woman of my heart. I love her even more now. Love her even more now. That's absolutely like... yeah. Oh my goodness. It doesn't necessarily mean that I want to travel as much now. I don't have that desire as much as I did when I was back when I was a teenager. I just had this great idea of myself being up on an aeroplane. Now oddly, my youngest son loves flying. Yeah.

Roz (43:35.909)

She wants to be...

Jenny Williams (43:59.129)

He can fly little light aircraft things. So he's got, yeah, I know, he's an air cadet. Bizarre, isn't it? And he had a fascination with airplanes. So there's something going on there, but he won't be, I think he would never be a pilot. He's too clever to, he's got bigger ideas to pursue, but yeah, so being up in the air, how bizarre.

Roz (44:26.737)

very bizarre how life would have been different so if you win the lottery tomorrow what you're going to do oh saturday what would you do with all that money less than 200 million or something would be nice wouldn't it what would you do

Jenny Williams (44:29.329)

Yeah.

Jenny Williams (44:40.341)

I would scoop up my boys and everyone and I would shut the retreat or I would find someone to live in my house and run and keep the retreat going. I would love to tour the gardens of the Mediterranean and go to Tuscany and learn a bit more about planting over there and try and get to grips with how we can implement that in our garden.

If the truth be known, this garden here could quite easily absorb a couple of million. If we... If we... It could! Or more! Seriously. And so we have a pond just on the other side of a field that needs serious work doing to it. We could sink a million into that. You know, so I think I would just want to possibly... I'm so happy, Roz. I am...

Roz (45:16.674)

Yeah.

Jenny Williams (45:38.965)

genuinely comfortable where I am, what I'm doing. And I don't yearn for anything. And I think if I did win the lottery, I'd give some to my family and some friends that need it and maybe do some big projects here and rewild and just enjoy life. But I wouldn't want things to change. I really wouldn't. Yeah. Life's... Why change what's great?

Roz (46:02.949)

Yeah, that's nice. Yeah.

Jenny Williams (46:09.353)

I think it's nice to sort of have a pot of money to save for a rainy day because you just don't know what's around the corner. So I wouldn't want to go spending it all either. I'm just quite happy. I wouldn't want anything to change. No.

Roz (46:27.237)

Very lovely. So what next? What's plans for 2024 on your to do list?

Jenny Williams (46:33.077)

More garden projects. So we're just about to embark on an area in the garden that we've talked about for a long time, but we've shelved it and sat on it and sat on it. And it's in the, it's the southwest corner inside the wall garden and it's slightly been an area where...

it needs, it needs, because it's in a corner, it needs two focal points and it needs a bit of work doing. It needs, and sort of this year we've sort of managed to get our heads around it a little bit more. It's weird because this whole garden has evolved with moments where we've had a light bulb section and gone, right we can do that, that's going to work there, we'll do it. And then other things we've had to sit on them for quite a while.

and just draw blanks. And this particular corner has been a corner that we've drew blanks for a while. And the one thing we don't have in this garden is water. We don't have any water features. And Tom's oh shied away from them anyway, because they're difficult to maintain actually. And when gardeners world came here, Joe Swift said to us, don't do any water features, they're a complete nightmare. I know, he said they're a complete nightmare.

Roz (47:48.397)

water features. I love the sound of it. I love the sound of it.

Jenny Williams (47:52.205)

Yeah. But to get a really good construction of one, and when you're dealing with the scale that we have in the wall garden with those great big 11 foot high walls and things have to look really in proportion and you can make the very big mistake of putting things in too small and it just looks completely wrong. And we've come across an old water drinker in our field here.

Roz (48:05.762)

Fortune.

Jenny Williams (48:19.981)

and we're going to carry it in there. We're going to have a play and we're going to sit at the table and sketch. And I'm going to document it on my YouTube channel and also snippets on Instagram and obviously on my website. And it's going to be, it's going to be great fun and crocus are on board. So they're going to supply the planting and it's going to be a great project to get our teeth into that it's one of those projects that will either, it'll be sort of quick slow. So we'll.

do a section of it and then we might have to sit on it for a little bit because I've sort of said to Tom, I think we might need to do some cobbling here because we've got cobbles that we can reuse as well. And I know poor Tom doesn't like the thought of having to do some cobbling because it really plays havoc with his knees because he's having to kneel a lot and lay the cobbles out methodically. But I think, you know, there's gonna be elements that we may have to just wait for a little bit.

but get our heads around how the water feature is going to be because the water feature will be the focal point in that section. As you walk along the west border, the water feature will greet you at the top. And so we just want to get that right as best as possible. So we're going to be working on that over the winter until we open in the spring.

Roz (49:45.349)

So I have to come to the opening of the water feature because actually I love water features. Joe Swift, sorry, but I love water features and they are a pain. I want to actually put a massive one in the middle of our front lawn, just so you go up and then you have a massive water feature and then you have a bench on either side and you just sit there and ponder and look at the water. I built a pond for exactly that reason. And even where my study is, where I'm working, I have a water feature just outside.

Jenny Williams (49:51.17)

Oh.

Roz (50:12.869)

that I put on in the summer and I just sit here and listen to water. I just like that whole, I was obviously born to be a fish or something, but yeah, definitely water feature. So can I come to the opening of the water feature? Absolutely. Brilliant. Jenny, thank you very much for coming over today. We could have talked all day and you do make me laugh that you thought about being a trolley dolly as we used to call it. It's cabin crew now. We have to be much posher now as cabin crew. Yeah.

Jenny Williams (50:24.701)

Sure. Yeah.

Jenny Williams (50:40.428)

Oh, oh, right. Okay.

Roz (50:42.689)

not trolley dollies we knew, but I will be telling Jan Porth that you wanted to be. Maybe there's a theme here that everybody comes as a guest wanting to be cabin crew. We'll have to start thinking about that one. I didn't actually, I never wanted to be cabin crew. There you go. I wanted to be a doctor. I might have been the worst doctor on this planet because I just, I would have just been dreadful. I mean, I have none of the skills necessary to be a doctor at all, or the brain power. There was just a no-no.

Jenny Williams (50:55.513)

Yeah.

Jenny Williams (51:03.407)

Oh, well.

Roz (51:12.185)

But it's funny what you think you can want to be when you grow up. Lovely. Thank you for joining me. And I will see you at the opening of the water feature. Thank you very much. Take care. What will happen now is Joe will put.

Jenny Williams (51:15.161)

Yeah, it's bizarre, isn't it?

Jenny Williams (51:20.757)

Thank you for having me.

Thanks for having me, Roz.

Thank you, bye.