The Cut Flower Podcast

Rooted in Legacy: The Salvia Story with Middleton Nurseries

• Roz Chandler • Season 1 • Episode 122

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Text Agony Aunt Roz with your Cutflower Questions.

In this episode, Roz chats with John and Annabel from Middleton Nurseries - a passionate, family-run business that has been thriving since 1975. Known for their deep love of salvias, John and Annabel share the story of their nursery, from humble beginnings to becoming salvia specialists. The conversation delves into the unique qualities of salvias as cut flowers, the intricate process of breeding new varieties, and the joys and hurdles of running a seasonal, weather-dependent business. They also explore the pride that comes from maintaining a multi-generational business and the importance of community support in the gardening world.

Key Takeaways:

  • Middleton Nurseries has been a family-run nursery since 1975.
  • Salvias have become popular for their versatility and vibrant blooms.
  • Breeding new salvia varieties requires time, experimentation, and dedication.
  • Proper growing conditions include good drainage and timely pruning.
  • Echinacea is another rising star in the nursery alongside salvias.
  • Weather significantly impacts the success of seasonal nursery operations.
  • Community engagement and loyal customers are vital for small businesses.
  • The family takes immense pride in their horticultural legacy.

🎧 Tune in to discover the magic behind salvias, family traditions, and the beauty of building something that grows through generations.

Find out more about Middleton Nurseries here.

Make the most of your garden by visiting bramblecrest.com and use the code FIELDGATE at checkout. See website for full details.


Roz (00:01)
So I am delighted to welcome John and Anabel to our podcast today from Middleton Nurseries. Now Middleton Nurseries is a family business and they've been growing since 1975. Gosh, 1975, where was I in 1975? Yeah, I was at school. So that's 50 years. I was in secondary school, which is not great. So is my age.

Annabel (00:18)
Yeah.

Roz (00:23)
You specialize in salvias and salvia seeds amongst other things and we can talk about what else you specialize in. But do tell us about your business, where it all started. What's the business? Tell us a little bit about it.

Annabel (00:35)
Yeah, well it started in 1975, my father bought a 12 acre site in Middleton, Staffordshire, West Midlands. And first of all, he started growing strawberries and he did lawn mowing sites, you know, that sort of thing, you know, to get going. And then it transformed really a little bit. People came to pick up the strawberries. your own strawberries. And then like I say, we constructed some green houses there.

and then it just developed from there over time, you know, so.

Roz (01:08)
So the whole family are involved now.

Annabel (01:11)
Yeah, I mean like during it was myself that was doing it and then obviously James joined in Covid and then recently Annabelle's joined, yeah, so it's become, we're slowing down, slowing down a little bit and then obviously we're going again now building a another family business. Yeah, growing, growing,

Roz (01:33)
both

spurts now, yeah exactly. So why Salvia's then? Why specialise in Salvia's to begin with? What became Salvia's?

Annabel (01:44)
I mean it's probably 10, 12 years. mean we had it at garden centre obviously early on there and we were always selling. They became popular sort of 2000 on. You always sold like the most popular ones like the hot lips and the ones that everyone knows about but you and then you realise how many there was out there. But once you obviously...

you collect a few and you get addicted. is like that. There's obviously you do certain species and you get addicted to any new varieties. You just keep adding to your collections. And the names of them are like, some of the names are really unique and a lot of people buy them from us as gifts for people, know, Jemima's gem. Because the names are so, know, for dates. There's a lot of names you can associate. But it has been.

Roz (02:26)
So then I'm gonna.

Annabel (02:35)
new varieties each year and obviously we've got good contacts with the breeders now and they seem to come to us and the IHS shows so it's it's pleasurable to do what we do really it's a great not a bad job

Roz (02:46)
grow into a vein of staleness. No, it's not a bad job. It's hard, isn't it? hard. People say that

to me, like, when I come on a warm sunny day and they go, it's a really lovely job, isn't it? And you think, not in November.

Annabel (02:57)
where they don't see the

winter. Yeah, those 70, hour weeks, you know, running up and down the motorway to the shows. Yeah, but we love what we do and it's you out in the fresh air in the cool. Yeah, neither. It's so great being outside all the time.

Roz (03:05)
Yeah.

I couldn't imagine doing anything else now. Yeah,

yeah, it's really good for you. So can you share? mean, for me, salvias a great cutting flower for sure, you know, from a commercial point of view, and from doing weddings and funerals and buckets and all sorts. It's definitely a commercial plant for me.

Can you share the unique characteristics that make it such a cut flower? mean, it just is. What makes them?

Annabel (03:38)
think

the scent of them, the aromatic scent of them is just like, I mean, when people have come to the nursery, you know, just passing through and they say, my God, I can smell them all, they smell amazing. And we're immune to it because we're so used to being around them all the time. But I think that's definitely a really good point about the salvias They smell amazing. And the Nemerosa, I think, are great. just...

the flowers on them are amazing. But about our seeds, we've, you know, some of our new varieties that we're new to. So our Splendens varieties, the flower heads on those are just absolutely enormous. And to be in a vase or in any floral arrangement, they'd look absolutely gorgeous. And they come in so many different colors. I think that's another thing as well.

Roz (04:30)
Yeah,

definitely.

Annabel (04:31)
There's

so much to choose from and there's such variety. And you've got the foliage, obviously, it's very scented. Many times when I come in from work, can smell it. You can smell it on our clothes. Yeah, the foliage is... And they're great for pollinators, actually. Yeah. Yeah.

Roz (04:46)
brilliant for pollinators. I think it's

underestimated. I most people think they're blue or purple. Most people don't or they think about hot lips. That's it really. Probably most people's understanding. And I think the different varieties like the big flower heads like you talk about just not known about to be fair. So it's about getting doing a salvia out there campaign isn't it about all the different varieties.

Annabel (04:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

No. Yeah.

Yeah, because I don't

like you said, I don't think many people, you know, see it as a cut flower and don't get me wrong, you know, some of the varieties like the aquamarine and some of the microfilia varieties, they're not as like a standout vase variety, but you know, but I think like you said, it's getting out there that some of these, especially some of the new varieties we've got that we're selling in the seeds, you know, people don't know that.

They are good cut flowers and they are used in arrangements. So we do need to promote We've got obviously the old Amistads and then the pink Amistad we introduced, I rated that very highly. nice. It doesn't flower as prolific as the blue one, but it's still a large flower. It's a good growers. Probably hardier than the Amistad we've found over the last few years. Yeah, a lot have taken this year. They've lasted over winter.

Roz (06:06)
Will people

be planting their seeds now?

Annabel (06:10)
Yeah, so March, April time, some of the varieties, some of them a bit earlier on, so February time, but obviously they take a bit longer to germinate. But obviously if you are sowing in February, you need to make sure that they're in a warm, controlled environment. So whether that's on your windowsill or in a heated greenhouse, you do have to be really quite careful with the salvia seeds because, you know, they come from, they originate from very hot climates. So you need to ensure that they're

getting that nice warmth as they germinate. too wet there. mean, obviously, naturally, we've got some on our stock beds when the flower heads come up in September, October, they're there, the seeds drop. Yeah. And we just see them May, June. They're just naturally coming up there. That's obviously how you get new varieties that come along from the pollination and things like that. But yeah, it can be natural outside, but you obviously really February, March, April, you want to do them in your

Roz (06:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Annabel (07:08)
green houses, get the little seedlings and it's probably going to be the next year before they start flowering and produce, pinch them out, get an established plant. But yeah, it's a long process.

Roz (07:19)
But it's worth it. It's worth it. I'm coming to see you on the 12th of April and I've got seeds in my head. Well, it wouldn't obviously wouldn't be a cutting perennial for this year, it'd be a cutting perennial for next year or the year after, which is fine. I think you've got to some patience, haven't you, with perennials just generally. You either buy them as plants and then know that you're ahead of the game or you go with seeds and have a bit more fun and know that it takes a bit longer.

Annabel (07:27)
Yeah, come on out.

Yeah, definitely.

That's it. think initially people will buy a plant and then they'll see the seed being produced and they think they'll give it a go. Why not? You know, and they'll master it one day.

Roz (07:56)
Yeah.

there's still things that don't germinate

for me today. 15 years later, they still, I yeah. I mean, some of our delphiniums, one of the team has just come in and said, well, I going to order some more delphinium seeds. Yeah. Okay. Then,

Annabel (08:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roz (08:14)
because

the ones we had didn't work. You know, it's kind of like, okay, here we go. And then, and then we ordered hundreds and hundreds of Snapdragon's and we planted them over wintered them last year. Those are the legislative varieties. I thought Snapdragon's is definitely going to be in this year. They germinated really well. They grew really well. They've turned out to be fox gloves. All of them. Every single one is a fox glove. I kept looking at them thinking, there are about 250 of them. And I'm looking at them thinking,

Annabel (08:37)
coming day.

Roz (08:43)
These are not. These are not.

Annabel (08:47)
You'd probably pre-sold the plants already.

Roz (08:52)
they're definitely not so

amongst your various salvia species of which there are a lot which ones do you recommend most for cutting what would you what would you be your top five what would be

Annabel (09:03)
The Splendens varieties have got to be up there. like the reddy bright red, which is like the really, you know, bright vibrant coloured one. A more purple. Honestly, there's so many, but the Nemerosa varieties, I think are really nice. So the Rose Queen. Caradono, that? a nice, people have probably heard of that one, which is great. know, those come back very hardy though. I just think it's the colours of them. They just really, really stand out.

Roz (09:25)
Yeah.

Annabel (09:33)
But yeah, they're just... Yeah, there's a lot of those Splendons ones which probably are underestimated with... They are very hardy and give you a bigger plume. Yeah. A little bit better. More plumes and there's a few new ones coming out of those. So I like those. They just give you a bit more. And obviously the bees love them in the summer. They're all around them. The Namboroses as well. The bees are obsessed with them. They're full of bees. I love them. Love them.

Roz (10:02)
Brilliant. So what are the essential steps and considerations when growing salvia from seed to ensure healthy plants?

Annabel (10:10)
Well, like I said before, because they, you know, originate from South, well, most of them originate from South America. You need to be really careful within like the temperatures that you're germinating them at. like I said, you know, whether you are putting them on your windowsill or whether you're putting them in a heated greenhouse. and you know, like you said, you need to be careful about the watering, making sure they're not rotting. but yeah.

Roz (10:23)
Yeah.

Annabel (10:40)
A lot of people do the underfloor bench heating. Obviously they'll bring them along a bit quicker. So for those cold months, February, March, you need a bit of bench floor heating sort of thing. if you, you know, you can do them out in the summer naturally and you'll just be a bit behind. You've got to get them established though. If you're doing that, that sort of thing in the summer, get them established and a bit of protection over the winter. Cause there'll be small little seedlings, but they'll make strong plants for the year after. Yeah.

Roz (10:51)
Okay.

Yeah, patience,

I think is the game on that one. So you do do some breeding, don't you? Some selection and you've got new salvia varieties. How do you do that? You introduced a new one, didn't you? Or something's coming, Tropicana series this year? What's coming? How do you do your breeding?

Annabel (11:09)
Yes, very patient.

Yeah, that's

I mean, that one is is from a Bredo from Rolando Argentinian Rolando's very he is Mr Salvia, an expert expert. He brings a lot of varieties to the market, but we we've got good connections with him now and he's got these the Sunrise will be launching at Chelsea this year. Very excited about that. It's a large flower. Yeah, it's going to be great.

Roz (11:30)
Wow.

you

What colour is sunrise? Yeah, what's...

Annabel (11:52)
and the leaf colour, underneath of the leaf is amazing obviously we'll do some videos of those ready pre Chelsea, you'll see them. different, really quite different. It probably looks a bit like the Wishes series but the leaf underneath is stunning you know. And it naturally deadheads itself so that's another really yeah it naturally falls off so that's really quite a unique feature of that as well. You should see those soon.

Roz (12:21)
don't

know. Definitely.

Annabel (12:22)
It'll be definitely getting

your hands on one of those. Yeah, so that'll be there.

Roz (12:26)
It's

like a in a sweet shop, me. Something that deadheads itself. Could be quite appealing.

Annabel (12:29)
Are you really ready? You will. Yeah.

Roz (12:35)
So could you provide guidance on optimal care for salvia? Soil preferences, watering and pruning techniques. I've found them quite hardy actually, but then I think I'm quite lucky with very good drainage.

Annabel (12:44)
Yeah, mean, are

different varieties, all the wishes really are not, they're not hardy at all really, those, but your micro fillers. All your delis varieties, they thrive, they just come back year after year. The micro fillers, but the key really is like a good well-drained soil they won't like the wet because they'll just sit there in the winter, but with the pruning as well, it's better to leave them bigger over the winter and prune them sort of late March, well, even end of April.

you'll know when the temperature warms up. did a little top tip actually on Instagram and I said, you know, just hold off. Like everyone was like, I've pruned my last week. you can have warm spelling March and you just get carried away. But I always, we always say, you know, wait until the end of March or even, you know, middle April, end of April. It's just better just to get, that new growth coming up and then you can give it a nice cut back. Yeah.

Roz (13:42)
Yeah, definitely.

We always say that. I think it's traditionally, isn't it? We always sort of, I remember growing up and we would say, let's put the garden to bed for winter. And you all your pruning then and you used to get it all really nice. And then of course there are all the birds and insects have got nothing to eat because you've taken it all away, number one. And number two, actually, you're not protecting any of it from any frost because you've cut it all back. And I think there is this saying, getting ready for winter. But actually what we really need to do is say, off for spring.

Annabel (13:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

you know, like, yeah.

Yeah, I

we've got a lot of trees in our garden and it sort of does give a good layer of protection. You know, when you take that away, you just see all them bulbs underneath there. But really, you've got to keep it there till, you know, end of March, realistically. You want to go out there and tidy it up, but it does give protection for everything, insects, for the birds. Yeah. So it's just be patient and just wait.

Roz (14:21)
I'm sorry.

Yeah, we're just thinking

of cutting ours back now, you know, like all out of Avina and all out of Salvia and all of that. We look at the climate, we just see what's happening in the next few weeks. We still had frost this week, we still had it, it's about, yeah, patience. It's like...

Annabel (14:37)
Yeah.

Yeah,

Roz (14:50)
I run this Seeds to Vase course every year for eight months and we kick off in February and people go, I'm going to plant up the seeds, going to plant up the seeds, you go, no, no, you're going to sit on your hands and it's really tough, really tough because everyone's all do their seeds and they want to get going. go, no, it requires too much heat. It requires too many daylight hours. Just hold off.

Annabel (14:57)
No.

Yeah, it's just the light really.

I mean this week in particular we can see a big change. Oh, everything's popping up in the greenhouse. Over a week, like the change that it's gone from is... And it's more sunlight, more than anything, than the temperature because it can be warm in a greenhouse but it's no good being stuffy and humid. You want the air to flow but it's the natural daylight you need to just keep them going.

Roz (15:14)
Yeah, I know.

Yeah, I was very excited last night. was the first time ever that I, well, for this year that I left the polytunnel doors open. So I didn't have to go out and close it all up. That's a big task, isn't it? You're sort of sitting there eating your tea and thinking, I forgot to close them all up off your chaddles. But I've left them. Last night was the first night I left them to start hardening stuff up, but it's very exciting. I get very excited.

Annabel (15:49)
Still would. Yeah. Yeah, but...

It is how you see like a

nice sunny day and you think, well, you get that sun, you're to have some cold nights.

Roz (16:03)
nice

yeah yeah so beyond salvia's what other plant varieties do you offer? I know you've started to do other things besides salvia's what else do you do?

Annabel (16:13)
Yeah, we do a lot of general perennials from anything from delphiniums, lupins, echinaceous have become popular over the last few years because the temperatures are sunny. They prefer a sunny well-drained soil which suits the salvia is what we sell as well. So they can go as a good combo really. Yeah. They've become very popular, the echinaceous, which is...

Roz (16:21)
Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, we found that last year. In fact, you know, there definitely is a trend. And we serve a London florist. So we drive in twice a week with a van and take everything we've got. And they love the echinacea because they were about one meter tall. You know, what they want is big and what they want is make a statement really. And so, but the echinacea could take enough.

Annabel (16:41)
Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah.

Roz (17:00)
It

was just like, woo, we'll have more of that. So we divided them all, as we did. Now we've got more Echinacea. And like you say, they love well-drained, they love heat. So we grow them in the tunnel as well as outside. So we get sort of almost a longer season really. And they love, I mean, they're coming up now in the tunnel. So...

Annabel (17:17)
Yeah, they are popping up now.

We've kept some over winter quite well but some are more vulnerable than others. Some of those fancy really colours that you think, they're great, probably not as as the... Last year we did, I love the name of it, Delicious Candy and that, at the shows everyone loved it. That's most popular one. The name of it I think sold it but the colour of it was And it is one of the hardier ones, it's a good performer so I would recommend that one. Delicious Candy. How did you not know?

Roz (17:42)
I've just written that one down. I'm terrible. Yeah!

Annabel (17:47)
That's the one to start off with delicious candy.

Roz (17:51)
God, it's

never ending. It's never ending, is it? I mean, I'm a bit, yeah, never ending.

Annabel (17:55)
We probably do plenty of varieties of them,

yeah. Yeah, they're really nice.

Roz (17:59)
So obviously, know, hardness of sow with plants is really important because of the UK climate. But that's like most things. It's the hardness of dahlias is the same thing. It's a tropical plant. You know, when you think about non-native plants to the UK, it's most of them. Most of the things we're growing as cut flowers is non-native really. So it needs sun. needs, you know, it needs daylight.

Annabel (18:10)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Roz (18:25)
and it needs some hardiness because I started growing Pelagoniums for instance and I love them but they are really are a tender plant and so you've got to bring them all in in the winter and dig them all up and as a commercial grower it's quite tough.

Annabel (18:33)
Yeah, that's it.

I know of what.

Yeah. That's it. I mean, we do tend to stick to more the hardy ones. What we, you know, as you know, there's probably up to a thousand varieties of salvia and we probably grow 300, which we try and pick the ones that are sort of suitable for our climate. But you we do take a few special ones for the collectors that that want to they've got the green house But that's what you would need. A lot of those some varieties you need to protect. But as a whole, we tend to stick to a lot of those.

Like you say, the microfilters and the gemensis and those sort of ones, Greggy eyes. And of course, at the shows and stuff, we want to be providing the best growers that are the best salvia varieties that are good growers in the UK. Because otherwise, you know, we'll get people coming back and they'll be like, they didn't last. And we want them to last. want, you we want that sustainable growing in your garden that comes up every year with not much.

There's plenty to go out each year, like, you know, these new ones that are coming.

Roz (19:43)
I know. So you're doing Chelsea, you're doing Chelsea in May. You're

all the shows this year. What shows you doing?

Annabel (19:50)
We're doing them all, yeah. We'll be at Hampton Court, Malvern Spring. NEC. NEC is local to us, so we're doing nice. We've got a new location this year. Gardiners World Live. What's it called? Oh, Wentworth. Wentworth. It's big show this year. The IHS and the... Yeah, that's going to be a really nice location. That's a lovely setting. So that's new. Yeah. And we've heard, well, from the IHS, they've said it's been...

Roz (19:59)
Yeah.

is there?

Annabel (20:19)
Excellent ticket sale so there's some good feedback there so that should be a good show. That'll be, is it July? Yeah it'll be towards the end of the year. mids. You've got a few weeks and that's it.

Roz (20:30)
You're going to be really busy by the time, well now, really now onwards, which I'm getting to work towards. Yeah, I

was going to say enjoy the next couple of weeks because by the time you start preparing for Chelsea, as we know, it's meant to.

Annabel (20:42)
Yeah. And we've got,

we've got, we'll be shipping out our orders around end of April sort of time. So we've got a lot of backlog orders from the winter. And then obviously the last few weeks have been manic online people, you know, see the sun out and they're just straight online ordering plants. So we'll be getting those out soon. this year. think, you know, the online James does a lot of work with that over the winter. Yeah.

We get quite a lot of orders throughout December, January, February, March, April. Which you wouldn't think, but you do. They get the orders there and then obviously they've got first picks and they're the first orders that will go out in mid-April, end of April. Yeah. Yeah, so we've got a good following at the shows. They seem to come along and what have you got new?

Roz (21:13)
Brilliant.

job

on Instagram because it is about visibility. We all know that, isn't it? This is a visibility game and the more people that know about you, the more people that are coming to the nursery, the more people that are looking online, the more people come and visit you at the show, it's kind of, yeah, it's tough. You do a great job.

Annabel (21:35)
Yeah.

I think we've got a

good following, good reputation. We're there at the shows, we're open, people come and see me. I think last year actually when I was doing the orders, I said to James, was like, hang on a minute, I swear this lady ordered a week ago and when I say she ordered, she must have ordered about four or five plants every week for five weeks straight. I was like, why did

Roz (22:07)
Say it,

physician.

Annabel (22:09)
just do

one with big order but she obviously was like gripped into the website looking at our new varieties and was like I need more I need more I need more so yeah that was quite funny actually last year yeah that's it isn't it? we do have a few we get a few every year that just order and order and order yeah which is good that's a good way to be yeah repeat business yeah

Roz (22:22)
We call that a plant-aholic. There's loads of those.

You've never got enough.

100%.

Yeah, yeah, it's good business. Yeah, you've never got enough plants and you've never got enough space to put them in, but somehow you manage it. So every time I buy something to him, you know, where are these are going to go? I don't know. We'll find somewhere for it. It's fine. Don't worry about it. We'll find some space.

Annabel (22:43)
Yeah.

You're rom-nom-a-tion.

Yeah, that's the way.

Roz (22:54)
So

if you've got anything up and coming, projects, anything you're working on, obviously I'm coming to the nursery on the 12th of April, so I'm very excited about that. But have you got anything else that you've got lined up? You've obviously got all your shows.

Annabel (23:01)
Yes.

Well, yeah, so

we're actually doing our first gardening members day in the peak season. So that's very exciting. Over three days. we've got people, our gardening members can sign up on our website and they can come to our nursery and see what we're all about, see behind the scenes and hopefully pick up a few plants while they're here. So that's very exciting. And we've had a lot of people request this from us.

Yeah, like that's The shows are always saying, can we come to your nursery? Yeah. But obviously we're busy. We're out there up and down the motorways, we will find some gaps and they're all available. There'll be time slots on the website there. So go on there and have a look for those. So that's really cool. Come along, fill your car with your friends and see what we're about. Yeah.

Roz (23:36)
Visit.

What are some

of the questions? Where do they go to join up to?

Annabel (23:58)
So on our website, first of all, you need to become a gardening member. So on our homepage, if you scroll down, there's a section there where you can sign up to be a gardening member. you get exclusive offers and emails and obviously you can come to the open day. then if you click on your account, you can book a slot for the selected dates and come along, that's how easy it is.

Roz (24:03)
Yeah.

Brilliant.

Let's do that. Let's get people from our podcast listeners up to the nursery. And obviously I'm there on the 12th of April and we'll be doing some filming of and onto my Instagram account so we can see what's there. I know. I know it has come around really quickly. So looking forward to that. So

Annabel (24:30)
Okay.

Yeah, we're looking forward to that. We're very excited. I can't believe how quickly we're coming around as well. We've been for it. Yeah.

Roz (24:50)
Let's talk about the business. Obviously, business doesn't run smoothly, does it? It goes up, goes down, it goes roundabout, it goes, you know, and it's quite high and you've got highs and you've got lows, haven't you? I've been doing, I think, yeah, doing this for a long time and had a number of different businesses. But, you know, what's your greatest challenge in running a business? You know, what are your greatest highs and lows?

Annabel (24:56)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I mean the biggest challenge really is the weather for our season. know, you've got to things in flower. Those early shows in April, well, certainly the April ones, sometimes you struggle to get the salvias into flower, like naturally. You're relying so much on the weather. You know, it's kind of uncontrollable at times. That is, and I think sometimes when it does peak in May, when we're busy with Chelsea, you're right at your peak.

Roz (25:13)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Annabel (25:35)
You've got plugs coming in, plants coming in, potting needs doing. It's just that busy period is so into a short space, one month, two months where really we're overloaded, but you just have to do what we can do. Yeah. And we're, we're such a small team. it's the three of us, me, my brother and dad. And it's like, it, it, gets tough at times, but I think that's something that we need to get out there a bit more that, you know, people think we're like this big corporate

business and we're not, we're literally the three of us like headless chickens trying to get your orders out and you know get everything ready for the shows of course like that's you know very important you know getting stock out ready early morning drives getting it there you know dealing with emails and all the admin side as well as all the plants it's it gets quite a lot at yeah that's well that's the main thing it sort of stretches us May June and then

you know, come July, you sort of breathe a little bit and then you got Hampton Court and then does get a bit easier August, September. But yeah, yeah. But then you get ready again for the next year. Yeah.

Roz (26:45)
It's never ending circle, isn't it? But yeah,

it's like being, I equate it to being a deck chair salesman on Weymouth Beach, you know, the person who says, and it's seasonal. He's not doing any work in February and he's not really doing a lot in November. might be cleaning his chairs, but generally he's got to be out there when the sun's shining and he's got to be out selling while it's good. And it's kind of a really seasonal business, but that gives you massive peaks.

Annabel (26:54)
Thank you.

Yes.

Yeah, we do. mean, it's great. In New York, come October, obviously we have a bit more time off and it is October till February really. You can have a bit of more free time, but I wouldn't have it any other way. do enjoy the Enjoy the winter, but you enjoy when you are busy. You get a buzz in the summer. Like you just get a buzz. You're always on the go, even though it is tiring, but you do get, you know, that good feeling and everyone.

Roz (27:15)
for sure.

I mean, either.

I agree,

just rest in January, that's all you've got. So what's been your biggest learning or the thing you're most proud of in your business? Obviously it's 50 years, that's a long time to run a business.

Annabel (27:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, 50 years this year. it is, I mean, there's been challenges all the way, but I mean, now I'm so proud that James has joined and then he never really thought Annabel would. got offers to go to university and then she was always helped throughout her. But yeah, it is proud that my wife helps. She's always at Chelsea with us and the big shows. We've got James and Annabel.

Roz (28:09)
Yeah, that was your Saturday job.

Yeah.

Annabel (28:21)
It's a proud moment to have everybody involved, my mother-in-law and father-in-law, they all help out packing. You know, it's a great feeling in April, May, we've got the cats and the dogs around and everybody's packing all the plants. Yeah. The radio's on, we're happy as anything, aren't we? Yeah, it's good. I wouldn't have it any other way, I really enjoy it. It's one of those jobs where you just...

Roz (28:25)
as a family business, yeah.

No, no.

Annabel (28:48)
you actually look forward to a Monday and getting outside. it's just when we are at the shows, it's a great community. Everybody knows and would help each other if you need something. Or people there. And it's a great community, like, you know, and it's... And at the shows, like, you know, you know, it is hard work in the season, but at the shows when you get people coming up to you at the shows and saying,

Roz (28:58)
Yeah, great.

Annabel (29:11)
Oh, my pants are amazing and I love them. I want to buy more. And that's so rewarding to us, you know, because sometimes it does get hard and you're running around and you think, oh, I wish that could have been a bit better. you know, generally, people like hearing that feedback when you're at the shows and even online on social media and having emails from people, it's, it's really great. James takes the brunt of it really on the internet. there's any problem.

So if you have a complaint you're speaking to my brother who's knackered and is replying to your emails at the end of the day.

Roz (29:52)
Kind, exactly that. You don't have to be anything else, but be kind. know, there's lovely issues, but be kind for sure. But yeah. Well, I look forward to seeing you in April and also at Chelsea of course. Yeah. And it's really nice to meet you both. And obviously we'll put in the show notes, all your web addresses and we'll get people over to see you. Whereabouts are you based in the Midlands?

Annabel (30:04)
Hello, Lisa. We look forward seeing you.

East

West Midlands Sutton Coalfield near the Belfry Golf Course so yeah we're not too far away.

Roz (30:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, exactly where you are. Not far from me. So thank

you very much for joining us today. It's really nice to meet you and I'll see you again soon.

Annabel (30:28)
Thank you, is that pleasing?

Bye, see you soon! Bye!

Roz (30:33)
Thank