The Cut Flower Podcast

GETTING KIDS GARDENING WITH LEE CONNOLLY

• Roz Chandler • Season 1 • Episode 158

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0:00 | 34:28

Text Agony Aunt Roz with your Cutflower Questions.

In this episode of the Cut Flower Podcast, Roz Chandler speaks with Lee Connelly, the Children's Gardening Coach, about the profound impact of gardening on children and families. They explore Lee's journey from starting an allotment with his brother to becoming a prominent advocate for children's gardening. The conversation delves into the benefits of outdoor learning, the importance of connection and wellbeing, and the need for gardening to be integrated into education. Lee shares inspiring stories of how gardening has transformed lives and discusses the challenges of promoting gardening careers. The episode concludes with insights on balancing purpose and profit in the gardening industry, emphasizing the importance of creating memories through gardening.

Takeaways
Gardening is about more than just plants; it's about connection and wellbeing.
Children benefit greatly from outdoor learning and gardening experiences.
Getting children away from screens and into nature is crucial for their development.
Gardening can significantly improve communication between parents and children.
Schools have a responsibility to provide gardening opportunities for children.
Promoting gardening careers is essential for the future of the industry.
Resources and funding are major challenges for schools wanting to implement gardening programs.
Engaging children in gardening can spark lifelong passions and careers.
Creating memories through gardening can have lasting impacts on individuals.
Balancing purpose and profit is key for sustainable gardening businesses.

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Rosalind Chandler (00:00)
hello welcome back to the Cut Flower Podcast. Today's episode is very special because we're talking about something that sits right at the heart of everything we do. But we don't always say out loud enough why this actually matters. Because yes, we grow flowers, we run businesses, we talk about pricing and stems and weddings, but underneath it all there's something much, much bigger than any of that. And today's guest lives and breathes that.

I'm joined by Lee Connelly, also known as the Children's Gardening Coach, who has spent over a decade helping children, families and schools reconnect with nature, build confidence and quite simply grow something. And I think this conversation is going to remind us all of why we started. So Lee, welcome. I'm so pleased to have you here. Let's start at the very beginning because I always think that's where the magic is.

How did this all start and did you grow up around gardening or did you come to it much later what made you do it?

Lee (01:03)
wow. Yeah, that's big question. Firstly, I want to say thanks for having me on. I am actually genuinely a big fan of the podcast. I really love listening to it. But the reason I got into children's gardening initially was I started an allotment with my brother and we started growing together and enjoying learning about gardening because we'd never done any growing before when we were younger. So my dad...

Rosalind Chandler (01:29)
Bit like me.

Lee (01:30)
Yeah,

right. My dad always tells me off the talent saying this, but our garden at home was very much look, but don't touch. And so when I was younger, I really missed out on just growing. I used to be outside a lot, but it's just like growing something and like feed and soil and plants. And so when I was in like my mid twenties, we got this allotment and me and my brother could share that experience together. That really sparked something inside me to want to

to do more of it. through like various, so basically we started this allotment and I'll try and tell you a short story because we'll go on for hours if not. I started the allotment and then just down the road from us is Jimmy's farm in Suffolk run by Jimmy Doherty who is Jamie Oliver's mate. He doesn't like to be described as, yeah he does much more than just being a mate of Jamie Oliver.

Rosalind Chandler (02:09)
Hahaha!

Yeah, I thought that was... yeah.

Lee (02:25)
but he's got an amazing farm and he does so much good for wildlife there. And he had an allotment there that was just a little bit overgrown. And he spotted us on social media and said, do you want to come in and do the allotment there? And from having the allotment together and learning with my brother, to then going into like more of a public forum and people coming along and speaking to us and trying to build community.

I just fell in love with that side of it even more as well. And then we obviously went, I say obviously, we ended up on Blue Peter, which is crazy because I never really looked at media before and was certainly not confident enough at the time to do it. But we threw ourselves into that and started gardening on Blue Peter. And that sort of got me interested in children's gardening. But at the time I wasn't a parent.

And a year into that, I had my daughter, Olive, and everything just all fell into place. That experience of my brother and just two brothers coming together and sharing a moment, the community side of it, Jimmy's, and then the children's side from Blue Peter, and then having my daughter, I just realized that all of these things made sense. And since then, over the last 11 years now, I've just built this incredible bond with my daughter through gardening.

And everything that I do within education and families is just to try and share that experience and get more and more people just feeling that connection, I think.

Rosalind Chandler (04:03)
Yeah, it's never just about the plants, is it? It's the point you realize that it's actually something much bigger than that. It's not just gardening, but working with children, education, impact, mental health. It's so much bigger than just plants. So you talk a lot about connection, confidence and wellbeing. What do you actually see happening in children when they start gardening?

Lee (04:28)
Well, I think the biggest thing, and I'm finding this more now as Olive, my daughter, gets older, is just having that connection outside and getting away from screens is a massive thing. Like, she's 11 now, so we're going into this whole gaming time. Like, when she was younger, it was beautiful because we got outside and she was running around planting up. And I was like, yeah, this is easy. Everyone can get kids gardening. And very slowly, just through experience, I've realised as children get older...

it gets a little bit harder to get them outside and away from those screens. But actually, once you get them out there, it's amazing, absolutely incredible because they forget about all their worries and you actually get to have, like one thing I've realised is communication outside is a lot stronger. So, especially with my own daughter noticing how...

Rosalind Chandler (04:59)
Yeah.

Lee (05:20)
We communicate when we're together, just planting some bits up, messing around, maybe cutting the lawn even together. That makes such a big difference to how we speak to each other. But then also within education, I get to go into schools throughout the country and I get to experience what teachers have to go through. I'm also a school governor as well. just seeing what schools have to do and the hoops they have to jump through.

just to give our children education and seeing how outdoor learning changes the way children behave within school and how they learn as well is just absolutely incredible. And trying to share that with other teachers and showing them that we can do so much and sometimes it is quite scary for teachers to start teaching children how to grow and how to be outside.

because they may not have that education already. it's an honour to be honest with you to be able to go into schools and be able to just show a little bit of direction. But you really can see the difference with children of how just getting their hands a little bit messy can make such a big difference.

Rosalind Chandler (06:38)
Can you share a story or a moment when you've seen this really land with a child? I mean, just getting them outside is an absolute, I mean, yeah, we all know they're all on phones and they're more on screens and lots of children have, unfortunately, don't have great times at home. And that's the bit that gets me. It's about, you know, it isn't about perfect flowers or perfect anything really. It's about confidence, isn't it? Is there any stories you can share around children and how it changes their lives?

Lee (07:05)
Yeah, well, I always use this example. whenever I try and do school tours as often as I can. So last year we did like a 10,000 children school tour within a week. So we travel the country and try and get as many children excited about gardening in that one week. And we did it before in 2020 as well. And there's one story that's always stuck with me so heavily is that

We were just out in Manchester actually and on the outskirts of Manchester I went to a school, incredible school, don't get me wrong, it was almost like I was looking to see where to pay the entrance fee. There was like sheep in the corner, was chickens everywhere, had an amazing allotment, it was like walking into a farm park, it was absolutely amazing. And you could really see how the children, they were outside all the time, they were learning all the time outside.

Rosalind Chandler (07:45)
Wow.

Lee (07:57)
And then literally just half hour down the road, I went to a school and it was just complete tarmac. And there was a lot of high rise buildings and a lot of children that went to that school, only time they'd ever really be able to get gardening would be at school because they've either not got a balcony, they've no outdoor space to spend with their family. And I just felt really...

the contrast between those schools just half hour away from each other in the same area was just so obvious. And so off the back of our visit to that school, we obviously, we provided them with planters and soil and seeds and everything to get started. And then we revisited that school a year later just to see how that was going. And it was amazing to be able to see the excitement from the children, be able to show me around what they've achieved.

And I think that's why schools especially have such a big responsibility. And it is a heavy responsibility for the teachers because when you have schools like that, which just have tarmac, but also could be the only place where children get that moment in the soil, it makes it really, really important that the schools are doing something to get those kids growing.

So yeah, that is one moment. Literally, I had another moment the other day where someone messaged me and he is about 20, he's 22 now and he runs his own gardening company. And I was like, I didn't know who it was to begin with. And he sent me a video that we'd done together when he was in year, I think he must've been in year 10 or 11. And he said that that inspired him to get gardening. And I was like, oh crikey.

That's really cool. I felt a bit weird about that because when you go around and do stuff, you don't really realise that you're actually going to get someone to come into the industry through just maybe just messing around with some seeds or some soil at school.

Rosalind Chandler (10:02)
Well it was never

on your careers ladder was it? You didn't go to your careers advisor and he didn't say to you, want to be a horticulturalist? Do want to grow flowers or work in a nursery or be a gardener? It certainly wasn't at my school.

Lee (10:14)
It's a really big,

it's a big problem, right, Roz? Like, I don't understand why that's not the case. Like, the same with me. I actually never knew this industry was even sitting here. Like, it's wild, isn't it?

Rosalind Chandler (10:23)
No, me neither.

Yeah, I think

that this book, I remember our careers advisor was Mr Bundy. It was a long time ago, but I remember he was really, he was quite a big round man with red cheeks and glasses and used to go into his little office and he pulled the book out and it'd be like, here's the careers from A to Z. And I said, I wanted to be a doctor. And he told me I wasn't clever enough and I could be an optician and then, or I could be a pharmacist, but I wasn't clever enough to go to medical school. And that was basically it.

Lee (10:48)
Fuck.

Rosalind Chandler (10:54)
There wasn't any other sort of, well, and actually I didn't do very well in my AILA was the first time, first time round, I redid them. And then I went off and did wait for this environmental science, which at a time when nobody ever, I mean, it was the only degree course in England and nobody really knew what the environment was. And I think

I kind of did that by mistake because it was my 3A levels put together and I thought I could go off and do that. I didn't really, I never visited the university. I never knew what I was doing. I just did it by, it sounded good and I'll go and do that. But I didn't get any real guidance about, well actually, what about doing this? I have you thought about doing, I obviously liked being outdoors and I'd have been a useless doctor, the most useless doctor in the entire world. So it's like missing and it's still missing today.

Lee (11:44)
Yeah, it's real big problem. One of the things I'm trying to do lot more of is trying to promote the industry within, I mainly like to go to primary schools because I think if you start children off very early, young and very young, then they're more likely to go into it as a career in the future. But one of the things I'm massively trying to push when I go into those schools is that the different careers that you can go into.

Rosalind Chandler (12:04)
Yeah.

Lee (12:10)
When I was at school, I really wanted to be a designer. I wanted to design cars at the time, but I loved art, I loved drawing, I loved all of that side of it. I actually left and became an electrician, which don't get me wrong, there no electricians out there, great, but it wasn't for me. And then I fell into this industry and now I get to tap back into that design side that I wanted to do when I was at school. So get to design gardens and...

Rosalind Chandler (12:27)
Yeah.

Lee (12:37)
loads of bits for projects that I do. One of my favourite things I get to do now is when I do projects, I get to do all the artwork and design all of that side of it. And I love that. Then it taps all back into what I used to love when I was a child. when we talk about growing and the industry, it doesn't necessarily always have to be the growing part. There's also so many different parts of our industry that we can tap into, which I try and promote as much.

possible to children because I don't think it's really talked about enough.

Rosalind Chandler (13:10)
No, I mean, you've worked with schools, you've spoken in Parliament, you've done incredible things in this space. And we're still not where we need to be with gardening education, are we? Where should we be? What can we do?

Lee (13:22)
Well, yeah, it's a really good point. I've been trying to, probably for last four years, four or five years, I've really been working hard now to try and, obviously I went into Parliament for a little bit and I've spoken quite a bit about this. it's getting into the curriculum. We're at a really pivotal point right now where the curriculum is going to slowly start changing. The issue we always have and schools always have is the funding side, which is a big, big, problem.

But it has been noted that outdoor learning and horticulture and gardening is a real big positive for children within education. It's just now how that works into the curriculum. And so I think it will do. I think we have a good few years off until that really happens. And I think probably right now, more than anything, we just need to come together and direct schools in a really clear and easy way for them to get started.

And there's some great things out there, some great resources out there for that sort of thing. But yeah, for anyone that, any businesses or people that want to try and do that, then the easiest thing is to get in touch with a local school and try and direct them that way, in a small way to begin with. then hopefully that will branch out around a school. But teachers are hard, right, Roz?

Rosalind Chandler (14:44)
Yeah, really, really hard.

Lee (14:45)
They've

got a lot, they've got a very hard job at the moment. to make it as simple as possible is the way to do it.

Rosalind Chandler (14:54)
Yeah, I agree. My husband used to be a teacher and I worked with a lot of teachers. Actually, I was up mentoring in Scotland this week and the person I was mentoring was actually a head teacher of some schools, three different schools. And it was stressful, really stressful. And she was doing flowering and doing...

flower growing on the side and falling in love with it and finding out being outside was a much nicer way. you know, maybe, I find lots of teachers and nurses actually who go into flower growing. And I kind of wonder long-term whether the two will come together, you know, whether there'll be hospitals where gardens are instead of tarmac, that will be nice. And, you know, and there'll be teachers who'll be teaching growing as part of the curriculum. So

somewhere on the line the two are coming closer together but I have seen so many teachers and nurses and doctors move away from their professions into growing and I wonder if there's some way we can combine the two somewhere along the line.

Lee (15:54)
Yeah, mean, there's a lot to do with wellbeing, that side of it, as well, isn't it? Because being a teacher is such a stressful environment to be in. you know, I've got teachers in my family and friends that are teachers, and it doesn't ever feel like they ever stop working. Everyone thinks they stop at three o'clock, don't they? And then, of course, they get those six weeks off, but it never happens, does it? So, you know, I think there's a lot of wellbeing involved in why teachers leave and then come into...

Rosalind Chandler (16:01)
Yeah.

Yeah? No.

Lee (16:23)
our industry in that way. But yeah, we are right, we need to sort of blend them together and that's the dream, right? That is the dream.

Rosalind Chandler (16:29)
That will be good. That will be good. Yeah,

absolutely. So lots of people listening are growing flowers, some as a hobby and some as a business. And I've talked to people who were, you know, I've even talked to a head teacher who was heading up a SEND school and she wanted to set up a flower farmer that would get children involved in getting teaching there. So I think it's happening. What would you say to them about getting children involved? Is there a simple, doable way?

for anyone, any flower grower like me or like anybody who's got an educational background to get more involved in schools.

Lee (17:04)
Yeah, well, in schools it's... The biggest thing with schools, as we've talked about, is resources. So if you can give them the materials and a slight direction, then that's an amazing way for them to get started. I think that's the biggest thing that schools need. Like I say, there's no money, there's no funding there.

Rosalind Chandler (17:25)
Yep.

Lee (17:31)
And so I think that's a really important way of doing it. Well, I'll tell you what one thing I want to talk to you about was. It's as, I was thinking about this before I come on and I'm really sorry, I apologize, it's coming off the education side a little bit. But one of the biggest things I also want to do is inspire as many people and many families to grow. And especially around flowers as well. I really want to talk to you about tulips because...

Rosalind Chandler (17:57)
Yep.

Lee (18:00)
I actually learned something from your Instagram the other day about tulips. You know what you said about pulling up the whole bulb so they last longer? I thought that was absolutely genius. The reason I want to talk to you about them is because I used to hate tulips, right? I thought they were rubbish for children to grow until I got my daughter to grow some. She was about four years old and I thought that bulbs and tulip bulbs are just so boring. And then...

Rosalind Chandler (18:07)
I do.

Lee (18:27)
When we planted some bulbs up, I watched her every single morning when she was just four years old, come outside and watch the growth very slowly as those little green shoots pop up. And I thought her excitement like made me rethink that whole world. since like literally I went to Holland the other week to go and see the tubes, I thought it was absolutely amazing. The reason I went to Holland is because I'm building a, this is really random rods by the way.

I'm building, yeah good, right, brace yourself. I'm building a Japanese theme park attraction based around tulips and Holland.

Rosalind Chandler (18:58)
I love random.

Okay.

Lee (19:11)
which is pretty, I love how you just took it as, that's fine.

Rosalind Chandler (19:15)
How does the Japanese, how

does Japan and tulips jump in? But I'm with you, I'm trying, Lee, I'm trying.

Lee (19:19)
Yeah.

Good question, that's the right question, Roz. Okay, so basically, a long time ago in my career, I built a show garden in Japan. It was called the Garden and Well Cup, and it was held in a place called Halston Bosch in Nagasaki, Japan. The theme park called Halston Bosch in Japan is totally based on Holland.

Rosalind Chandler (19:40)
Right?

Lee (19:49)
They literally shipped over every single brick from Holland back in the 90s and built it in Japan. I told you it was random, Roz. Stick with me. And they do... Well, that is true. Yeah, you're right on that. So anyway, so they literally have a Holland over in Japan, which is absolutely crazy. I'd never actually been to the real Holland until literally about two weeks ago. And basically...

Rosalind Chandler (20:01)
Japan nothing's random it's fine

Lee (20:18)
We spoke to the theme park over there about creating a family attraction that brings tulips and gardening together. And so we want to try and get as many people growing tulips through this project, as well as engaging with local communities. So we've got all schools around Nagasaki and Japan all putting their ideas together for this.

theme park attraction that we're building and we're going to do the same in Holland. So for tulips for instance, my biggest question is to you is what would you say is the easiest tulip to grow?

Rosalind Chandler (20:55)
Right, the easiest tulip to grow. We grow 14 varieties and it depends whether you want early, mids or late, so when you want it to flower and it depends what you want it to do. So we tend to grow ones that are A different so that it doesn't look like a very traditional one that you can buy in a supermarket. So it's quite important to us. It's got to be a bit different, long stemmed and have some characteristic which makes this exciting.

So is it a frilly fluffy one meter gorilla which is burgundy or almost black love it a gorilla and it's easy to grow really easy to grow that's probably the easiest one we grow here on the farm and on top of that what else would be easy you don't want anything too hard i think the gorilla could do it for you

Lee (21:37)
amazing.

What I love about tulips is it's a bit like, you know when you're like, I don't know if you do, we bet on the horse racing sometimes, tulips names are, sometimes I pick the tulip on the actual name itself, rather than what it looks like, just go on the name.

Rosalind Chandler (22:05)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you on that one. It's like when I pick a horse at the Grand National, it's all to do with the name, not actually if the odds are good. It's like it never wins either. But yeah, mean, you know, like if I look around, we've got gorillas, which are fantastic. Then you've got black hero. Well, the name is in it. It's a black tulip and it's a hero tulip.

Lee (22:13)
Yeah.

Rosalind Chandler (22:28)
Then you've got Acabono, which is a double yellow. And you think, well, where did they get the name of that for? I want a tulip named after me, by the way. That would be my, I'd love that. Or even if it was a dalian named after me, but some sort of hybridization. I'd love that. Something you've created your own thing. Yeah, I've got to make that happen. Mentons, M-E-N-T-O-Ns always reminds me of South of France, but it's an apricot and it's a beautiful.

Lee (22:44)
We need to make that happen.

Rosalind Chandler (22:56)
tulips I tend to grow tulips that I love and have beauty for sure yeah black hero gorillas, acabonos, mentons and probably actually this is the easiest one I've changed my mind the easiest one to grow is a mystic von eich and the and it doesn't that sound really Dutch and the reason is it's an early

Lee (23:21)
One night.

Rosalind Chandler (23:24)
it's kind of a corally pink colour and it is massive the head of it is massive and it's the first thing to appear in spring and when you know a Mystic Van Eyck is coming you know the rest are not far behind so you better get a move on and work out where you're to sell these but the Mystic Van Eyck is the easiest there you go

Lee (23:44)
Beautiful. Well, I'll listen back to this and I'll write all that down. That's perfect.

Rosalind Chandler (23:50)
because we

ordered our tulips now for delivery to us. It's like being a fashion designer, for delivery to us in September, we sell them to our audience as flower farmers or consumers or anybody who would like to buy our tulips because we buy what we know works. We're going into year four now of selling them and we sell about 30,000. We import them all.

Lee (24:15)
Wow, that's a lot of...

Rosalind Chandler (24:17)
We imported last year's 60,000. So we sold about 30,000 and we planted about 30,000. It's madness. We'll do more this year for sure.

Lee (24:26)
Well that is incredible. That is madness.

Well, I've literally, like I say, I fell in love with her when Olive grew up, when she was little. I've really fell in love with her now after now making a theme park ride from it. But that also shows, I love telling that story in school because it just shows the progress of what you can do within this industry. doesn't necessarily have to be, think the growing part is very, very important to get that passion side of it.

but it does show you can dip into all sorts of incredible areas of this industry and do all sorts of wonderful things through plants.

Rosalind Chandler (24:55)
Yeah.

Hello, I

you have, you've built a business around this. You know, how do you balance purpose and income? You know, it's a bit of a journey, isn't it? Because you still need to earn. You know, how would you, what would you say to someone who feels pulled towards something meaningful, but they still need to turn it into a business. So we still need to run flower farms if we're going to have school visits, or we still need to go into schools, but how do we balance that? And how do we, how do we find a way of being meaningful and have purpose with what we're doing?

Lee (25:31)
That's a good... sound like my wife actually was. She asked me that. She asked me a lot. I tell you one thing, is I think probably since 2020 one of the things I've tried to do is try and make sure that whatever I do has some sort of impact and makes a difference. I'm about not thinking

Rosalind Chandler (25:34)
Does she say yeah? Are you making any money from this? Does she say that?

Lee (25:56)
in projects to begin with probably did change the way that my business started to work. You know how they say, I'm trying to think of this, so there's a saying, right, that everything that comes back around, if you put in, it comes back around. I used to think that was a ridiculous saying. Actually, once I started actually going along with that, it really does. Things just happen. I think that anyone in this sort of industry

Rosalind Chandler (26:09)
does.

Lee (26:23)
is full of goodness and positivity and just wants to do good for our planet but also just, you know, growing. Just feel, it does, I think it really does. And if you have that in your heart, then the rest will come along. Like, I really do believe that and maybe I am...

Rosalind Chandler (26:33)
Changing people's lives. Yeah, it does.

Lee (26:47)
a little bit foolish sometimes in that sense. But it works at the moment, Rod, and I'm going with it.

Rosalind Chandler (26:53)
No, I think 100%. I mean, in COVID, I wrote a book called Seed to Vars because I run a eight month course which goes from February to October online, teaching everybody to grow cut flowers. All right, now we're in its sixth year, but the first year that I did it, I had no idea what was going to happen. And I what I discovered that there were all these people growing flowers for completely different reasons. You know, that might have been that they'd lost a child, it might have been that they were divorced, it might have been

they were really lonely or there's something in their community and I started to really think about it and think what is this all about it was quite a shock I just thought people just grow flowers don't they and then I wrote this book and each of the chapters is dedicated to a different person so I took on about 15 different stories and they were inspirational and I still go back to that book now and I still follow the people that were in that book and their journeys

And it did change their lives for sure. So and I do that even now. So like we're running again for the sixth year running the same course and we are changing lives. People are either deciding to do it for their mental health and wellbeing or they're doing it for some other reason that you might not know initially, but through the eight months you do find out. And it gives, you know, we've, we've got people who are really poorly.

you know, some who are going through chemotherapy and it just gets them outside. It's like, I can't explain it. It's like, and that's what's inspirational to me. And also if they then go and become a flower farmer, which some of them do, and I end up mentoring them and helping them grow a business in another way, that's really, really fulfilling.

Lee (28:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. think that sums up as something I always talk about, you create memories and then you never know what that memory will spark in the future.

Rosalind Chandler (28:52)
No. Yeah, that's it. Creating memories is a good one. Yeah, that's why we do it. I'm sure that's why we do it.

Lee (28:58)
there. If we could make some sort of difference then it's amazing. Yeah, 100%.

Rosalind Chandler (29:01)
it's all worth it I know

I've got some quick-fire questions for you what's the favorite plant to grow with children

Lee (29:11)
no. How quick do I have to be? Because I'm terrible at quick fire. Do you know what? I'm going say tulip for this podcast. There you go.

Rosalind Chandler (29:20)
yeah

yeah biggest gardening failure that you've had

Lee (29:26)
When I first got an allotment, I used a rotavator and chopped in a load of bindweed and could never get rid of it.

Rosalind Chandler (29:33)
Yeah you were doing a favor for the bindweed. One thing every child should grow

Lee (29:36)
Quite yeah.

Every child should grow something that they love to eat.

Rosalind Chandler (29:46)
Yeah, yeah, because then that does two things, doesn't it?

Lee (29:51)
It has to be something they love to eat. they grow something they don't care about. Some people say all grow a radish, but I still have not met a child that loves radishes yet. So they have to love it to care about it.

Rosalind Chandler (30:02)
And one thing that adults could learn from children in the garden...

Lee (30:06)
just to switch off and just enjoy nature.

Rosalind Chandler (30:11)
Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely. So Lee, this has been such a lovely conversation. Where can people find you, follow you and learn out more about what you're up to?

Lee (30:21)
Yeah, I appreciate you. If you search the Children's Gardening Coach, then you'll find me somewhere, Roz. I'll be about on the internet somewhere.

Rosalind Chandler (30:32)
And we will put all of your Instagram and so on in the show notes and your website and so on so people will be able to find you. And if you can't find Lee, then reach out to me and I will make sure that I connect the two of you together. I've certainly loved the conversation and I think if you take anything from today, this isn't just about flowers or growing or vegetables, it's about people. It's about connection.

Lee (30:38)
Thanks so much.

You're amazing.

Rosalind Chandler (30:56)
And it's what we pass on is the most important thing. That's what we've, we've discussed today. And if you enjoyed this episode, do share it, especially with someone who has children or works with them, or just needs a reminder about why this all matters. And I will see you on the next episode. I want to thank you very much for coming over today, Lee. And it's been an absolute pleasure to have you. And yeah, that's it's been wonderful. Thank you very, very much.

Lee (31:25)
Thank you, Schoß.