The Multifamily Mindset Podcast
Welcome to the Multifamily Mindset Podcast. A podcast designed to help you think BIGGER, live BETTER, & invest with ALOHA. We provide an in-depth look into mindset, entrepreneurship, and multifamily real estate principles along with interviews of various business professionals and Multifamily Mindset students. These high-level discussions and lessons are designed to inspire and motivate you to live your best life hosted by key members of the Multifamily Mindset team.
The Multifamily Mindset Podcast
What It Takes to Close Your First Multifamily Deal with Zach Rucker & Joe Rinderknecht
What does it take to close your first Multifamily deal? Joe Rinderknecht joins us to share how the ranch values of hard work, integrity, and keeping your word have become the foundation of his thriving multifamily operation along the Western front of the US.
Whether you're just starting your real estate journey or looking to scale your existing portfolio, Joe's practical wisdom on partnership, market selection, and maintaining an abundance mindset offers a refreshing perspective on building sustainable success in multifamily investing.
Welcome back to the Multifamily Mindset Podcast. I'm your host today, Zach Rucker, and I am super, super excited about our guest today. This person that we have on has been really was my first mentor getting into real estate, so I'm super excited to share him with all you listeners and get to know a little bit more about. Even my journey into this Really came from this person that kind of helped me get started and showed me the ropes a little bit, and with that it's Joe RenderConnect is our guest today. Joe, thanks so much for taking the time to jump on and share your story with our listeners, and I'm just I'm super excited because I love hearing what you're doing in your journey and it's always inspiring me to keep moving forward and keep pushing and get out of my comfort zone. So thanks so much for jumping on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, zach. I appreciate it. Those were some nice things he said. I don't know if I was ever a mentor. I was on my own journey as well, so we were walking down that path together.
Speaker 1:So that's right. That's right, but that was the fun part about it.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah, and it's really cool to see like where kind of we started back in. When was it Like 17?
Speaker 1:Yeah, back in 17.
Speaker 2:Going to school at USU together. You were a part of the real estate club that I had started and then we started getting more into looking at multifamily deals together and got into Renatus. Right, it's an education company. It's been good it's been good yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So tell the, tell listeners who's who's joe.
Speaker 2:Uh, who is joe for for all of our listeners, uh, out there yeah, so for those of you who cannot see me, I wear a cowboy hat it my MO it's who I am through and through Grew up farming and ranching in Northern Utah, and so a lot of my values in business and real estate come from what I learned on the ranch of you know, working hard, your word is your bond, you know, and taking all those into real estate and making sure that your, you know communication is good with investors and you do exactly what you say. You know one thing we've like we've won deals before because we've called sellers out and be like hey, listen, we're going to do everything that we've said we're going to do. We expect you to hold your word to us, and we've won deals because we've called sellers out in that way. Right, so really big on kind of those values. And so fast forward to now I'm not really I don't do a lot of the farm and ranch stuff doing more of my own little homestead, if you will, as it's kind of a buzzword these days as Zach and I talk about money minutes prior to this call or to the recording, but now we're we're really focused on.
Speaker 2:My focus is on essentially two different things in the world of real estate, mainly multifamily right. We are very focused on buying like 20 to a hundred units along the Western front of the U? S so Montana, idaho, utah along the western front of the US so Montana, idaho, utah and we own assets in all three of those states and are just looking to expand our portfolio. Most of our stuff is smaller right, like we just bought a 54 unit in Missoula, montana, back in September. Right now we're under contract to purchase a 48 unit in Boise and so we were actually also looking at, we've been bidding on some hundred 200 plus stuff.
Speaker 2:But like our bread and butter of what we know really well is in that sub. You know a hundred unit range and brokers are now reaching out to my partner, levi Allen and I because we have about a decade under our belt of building that credibility right With brokers that we can execute and do what we say we're going to do, get deals done and we don't ever retrade either. So that's kind of one side of what the business did. We run and operate everything that we purchase here locally, essentially in our backyard. Everything in our backyard is like a four-hour drive. It's crazy Like last Tuesday we had our building inspection on Boise. I got up at like 4 am, drove to Boise, did the inspection for six hours, drove back that night, was back home by 8 o'clock that was a long day, that was like
Speaker 2:an hour round trip drive right, that's what we only like to get on site quickly if needs be, and be boots on the ground. The other side of the business that I do is I have a fund as well where we've mainly done multifamily. We will raise capital for others deals. We'll partner with people who are really good at what they do. They're vertically integrated and right now we're building that into more of a asset agnostic cashflow fund. So we've mainly done multifamily.
Speaker 2:We've done a couple of custom home builds we're looking at right now some like venture capital opportunities, some businesses you know the other kind of buzzword out there in the world right now is kind of your trades and your service-based businesses. You know it's kind of the boomers right are at that age. They don't want to be a plumber, they don't want to be an HVAC guy, they don't want to be a plumber, they don't want to be an hvac guy, they don't want to be a landscaper, and so we're looking at investing in, you know, those kind of businesses as well and really anything that we can get some pretty good cash flow on. Um, you know, we're really looking at because you know, zach, as you know you're in the multi-family space too. What we're kind of seeing right now in the market right is either somebody's like already what they call like pregnant multi-family, like they've invested so much in multi-family, they're ready for something else.
Speaker 2:So that's where we like to kind of hit on what what those wants and needs are from the fund, because a lot of the stuff we do is high rate, uh, short-term stuff, but also, as we know, people that invested in 2021, that at the top of the market, like there's so much money tied up in deals that they just don't know like are they ever going to get their money back? Are they going to get distribution again? We just don't know. And so we're we're trying to like on our multifamily stuff and, like the fund, think of, like what's happening in the market, what are investors experiencing right now? Today, investors are experiencing their returns in their Cushman Wake not Cushman, that's a brokerage the Charles Schwab accounts, right, their stocks are tanking right now. Their stocks are tanking right now. So looking at the whole scope and figuring out how can we pivot and, you know, provide a good service and investment opportunity for our investors. So that was kind of a quick one too, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. So kind of two sides of the business not necessarily fully all in on, just like that fun investing into your deals, but having that as investing into other deals I think that's kind of unique kind of situation that you don't see too often of you're operating your own deals but then you're raising money for other people's deals outside of that. I think that's a unique kind of setup that allows you to. I think that's a that's really a smart position, cause then you get to see how these, these operators that are really good at what they do, how well they operate, and you get to see a little bit inside. You know their, their business and their organization and then kind of bring that back to your your business in a way right.
Speaker 2:That's totally true, yeah, and I actually.
Speaker 3:Hey everyone, clinton Orr here with iProtect Insurance and Financial Services, we are thrilled to be returning to peak partnership this year. At iProtect, we specialize in multifamily insurance and risk management, helping investors across the country maximize profitability for nearly 15 years Through strategic risk management and strong carrier relationships, we make sure your investments are protected and optimized for an insurance quote or insurance pricing per door on a deal you're underwriting or essential risk management resources to help keep your investment secure. Visit our website, ratemaporg. Let's connect and make your property safer and more profitable.
Speaker 2:looking forward to seeing you all at peak partnership and I'll give a couple reasons why we've done the fund of funds. Uh, it's more than just that because, yeah, lifting up the hood of their operations, essentially, and seeing how they do reporting and financials and k1s and you know all of the inner workings with construction and whatnot, like, yeah, you do get to look at that, which is super nice for an aspiring operator who wants to become vertically integrated right and so like. With the multi-family stuff we won't work with, we won't deploy capital with anybody who isn't vertically integrated right, because we want to save stuff. Granted, like, there are a couple sponsors that, like everybody trusts, who are, you know, they have deals foreclosing right now, but it's just, it's not necessarily their fault, it's just the market right.
Speaker 2:But I started the fund back in 22 and if we, you know, go back to that time, I had bought a 1951 24 plex in bergam city, utah. That was a massive, massive renovation right, and that property got to a point where, like I, my partners and I and more specifically, myself, just cause I lived closest to it, like I lived at that property like three to five days a week and I wasn't getting paid, I don't have a full, I didn't have a job, or I just quit my job to to buy that property. And, uh, you know, the, the, the the ship was sinking, and so we had to show up every day to make sure it didn't sink, kept it above water. So I started the fund because I was like one I'm sick and tired of operations and I'm ready to just trust somebody else with money and money for me while I deal with this. And so that was one of the reasons why I was, like, really started looking at, like how can I do more? Like debt, right, because I don't want to be an operator like I'm already strapped.
Speaker 2:And so that's where, like the fund to fund structure came into play, where I could raise a bunch of money for somebody else's deal that was vertically integrated, great track record, right, and be able to make money from that while I was focusing on keeping this deal alive, right. That was, you know, the first thing, that was the first reason why we did it. But then also, I'm always kind of more of a long-term visionary as well, like the whole begin with the end in mind, and so, again, I've always wanted to have a vertically integrated business, assets under management, you know, and understanding their operations and getting paid to do it was like, all right, this, this is cool, let's, let's run with this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, that's sweet, I like that, like you. Just, I came out of a necessity but then also just grew into this, um, you know, multi-purpose, full reason to set up the fund and go the fund of funds and like for our listeners. You know, a lot of our listeners are new, trying to get into to multifamily and get started and, uh, a lot of them are trying to figure out that piece of okay, how do I, you know, get into deals and what are ways to do that? And some are like, well, I'm going to raise capital for deals and it's um, or I'm going to try to find the deal right. There's, there's different avenues to get there.
Speaker 1:Um, I would say all are difficult. It's just a matter of which one do you want to pick and dive into it, right, but that fun of fun models is is a good point that you, you, you, bring out. Can you explain a little bit? Don't go into too depth. We don't want to, like, confuse people too much on that piece. But, yeah, how do you, as a um owning that fund, get paid, uh, to operate that when you, when you, get into deals?
Speaker 2:yeah, I can. There's typically two different ways and all high level. So we did. The very first deal we did was with Rise48. They're based out of Phoenix and essentially, if you're a retail investor, you have 50K to invest with them. They're going to give you a 7% 70-30 split right. And so I'm also part of another community called Avestor. They are a fund administrator. They're the ones that helped us set up the fund of funds, and so it was their relationship with RISE48.
Speaker 2:And so we were able to negotiate terms with RISE48 that if we brought over $500,000 to the table then we would get an 8-pref-80-20 split Right. So we raised $71010 000 for that first deal, and so we brought in you know, I think it was uh seven investors to raise that 7 10 right, which each of them individually would have only got the seven press 70 30 split. So what we did is we gave the investors the full eight percent prep, but then on the back and my team and I will get the 10 percent, uh, on the performance split. So we we took a very small like um fund manager fee it was like one and a quarter points up front for raising that money, which is like it's like seven grand or something which you know that's not not a ton, but we'll get paid a lot more on the back end. And so we, and then we're just straight, strictly lps, right, we bring one check to uh rise 48 and then we manage all of our investors on our back end. Um, the other deal that we did in Ohio, we're more of a kind of like a co-GP.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to go into a lot of detail on that, because co-GP is getting really hammered on right now by the SEC because you cannot be compensated, right?
Speaker 2:This is a pretty good disclaimer for anybody that is looking to get started in this and raise capital. Like, even though I have a legitimate 506c fund that you know is a reg defiling through the sec, like even me, raising capital for a deal that I don't have other responsibilities in is a violation of sec guidelines. So you cannot take, like co-GP shares of a deal only for raising money. You have to have other responsibilities within that deal, and so we do have other responsibilities with the Ohio group. Therefore, we were able to get that co-GP shares. But just so everybody knows, like, make sure you don't go and try and get code gp shares act fee and all that just for raising capital, because if you get caught it won't be pretty, and so, even though we're a newer fund, like we want to be 100 sec compliant from day one you know, a lot of smaller operators say, oh, we're small, we're not going to draw any attention by the SEC.
Speaker 2:You're correct, until you know an event like now happens and there's a lot of investors who are suing, right, because the inevitable, the worst case scenario is happening, right. So now these small shops are now being, you know, sec is looking at them and asking questions. It's just better to cover your basis from day one and do it right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I do want to like highlight that because I know a lot of the new investors in the multifamily mindset are looking to focus on like raising capital and the big stress is they want to get the GP shares, yeah, but oh no, we've both been there, man, we have both been there, yeah, to focus on like raising capital and the big stress is they want to get the gp shares.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we've both been there, man, we have both been there yeah, yeah, you want, you want that slice like.
Speaker 1:You want that slice of the pie. But like I want to talk about that benefit of setting that fun up to get lp shares. You know that still plays a big benefit right to the the fact that you get. You know a lot of people want the co-GP shares because they want an inside look on a deal and they want to be a part of a deal. You can still get that right from your LP share position because you see it from the reporting standpoint, you still have that relationship with the operator. So you can get some inside looks and get to learn through that process from the LP side and you stay more compliant on that deal and not worry so much about potential SEC issues in the future.
Speaker 1:You kind of keep yourself safer right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the biggest difference right is you don't have any decision-making and, truthfully, no sponsor is going to give you any decision making. If you're just getting started, like I've been in it 10 years and like I don't want to have any decision making responsibility on rise 48, like they're they're two billion dollar aum, right like let them run it value, but like I'd rather just stay on the lp and stay in my lane, you know.
Speaker 2:And the other thing, too that I'll mention is that because I've talked to a couple of your students and I know that one thing that you guys teach is to stay in a couple of different markets, get to know the market and that's why we're so focused on Montana, idaho and Utah Is we feel like we have an advantage. I feel like that. What you say, like we have an advantage, I feel like in this market because we invest and operate, but like I wanted to understand Texas and I want to understand Ohio and I want to understand the metrics there, but I don't have to know it fully to invest there, right? So that's the nice thing about the fund is like I can get in deals outside of my core markets through the fund and get to understand those metrics so that in the future, if I want to expand, I have, you know, really good relationships with those sponsors that I can partner with. Now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that because you're right, like it's what we, what I stress to the students is yes, stick to what you know. And if one of you you don't want to invest where, you're right, like it's the what we, what I stress to the students, is yes, stick to what you know. And if one of you you don't want to invest where you're at, maybe you're in California and so you have to. You're kind of forced to look outside. Okay, pick one market, start there, get to really know it. But once you do that, yeah, feel free to expand. But use, utilize resources. And so you, you did that. You utilize a resource. You know a sponsor, very experienced sponsor, vertically integrated and invested with them from an LP standpoint, uh, with your fund. Or even gotten to the GP shares, uh, outside of your normal markets, to learn that market.
Speaker 1:I think that's. I think that's excellent advice to take and to have the opportunity to learn, because it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work to learn a new market and the ins and outs of it and to even get a um, you don't really you're at a loss, right? You don't have that competitive advantage when you're not local to that market and I mean I see that struggle because you know my group we look at outside of of. I mean we want to look into utah in idaho but uh, yeah, I mean you understand the struggles a little bit of that looking here locally and just the you know how pricey it is. So we kind of force ourselves to look outside as well and look into different markets. Um, yeah, the not being boots on the ground piece, you know, does hurt that and that's something you just got to consider with that. So I mean that's a great point. I love how you highlighted the investment side of it. The LP piece is another benefit to utilizing that to get into other markets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or just find a team like you have, right, zach, and add value to another sponsor and, you know, makes it easier for you to get into those other markets, that's right, yeah and yeah they're completely, you know, right on with like utah and idaho it's they're expensive and it's not as cash flow heavy as some of these you know, the sunbelt states and whatnot but I can tell you like our appreciation is pretty dang good and like there's a lot of benefits to investing here locally if you can make the numbers work. So, yeah, one thing I'd like to mention to Zach, like for all your listeners, because you've mentioned something like a lot of people, like in your program, are trying to figure out like how do they fit in, like how can they get into a deal? Do they raise the money, do they do they find the deal? You know something that really helped me from getting started and you you'll probably remember this is something that we learned from. Renatus is and and I've kind of taken it how they taught it to how I like to interpret it but there's essentially five things you need to get a deal done right and I'll quickly go through those. So there's these five things you need to get a deal done right and I'll quickly go through those. So there's these five things right, the broad, broad things that if you can bring one or two of the five things, you can typically get a deal done.
Speaker 2:You can find if you can bring one or two. You don't have to have all five. Find somebody who have the other three or four. This is really good for a beginner to understand, because as we get into this we're like okay, I want to buy that 20 unit, okay, but that 20 unit is 200k a unit, so it's a four million dollar deal and I gotta go sign on the loan. I've got to bring you know what, 30 right now, so 600 000 plus acquisition fee. So I got to bring a million, roughly, you know, got to have the credit to get the loan. But I don't know any property managers and I've never done this before. And then you get all in your head analysis, paralysis, hits you and then you don't do it Right. So essentially those five things which are what I just said in that little scenario is one is time Time to go out, find the deal to hustle Right.
Speaker 2:Number two is knowledge. Have you done this before? How to underwrite right. Construction Like that's what's really helped me is like I have a background in construction, so that's really helped as well. So what knowledge do you have to add value to a team Relationships right? That can be with property managers, lenders, brokers, insurance, legal all the things you need the whole team that you need right.
Speaker 2:Number four is credit or credibility right, because the lender is going to look at both. They want to know your credit score If you can get it even a not even a recourse loan right. Your credit, like on one of the last deals that I did, my credit went to crap because of that deal in Utah so I didn't get to sign on the loan. So therefore I didn't get as much of the deal because my credit was crap, but I had a partner who did have it Right. So, credibility they want to see how much experience do you have. So, in the more experience you can put into a team, the better. Technically, your rate is right, you can get blender.
Speaker 2:And then number five is money right. So if you can bring one of the one of the five, one to two of the five, so time, knowledge, relationships, credit, credibility or money to the table like you can assemble essentially the other three or four needed to get a deal done right. And the biggest thing too, is that I fell into this a lot um, never do a deal just to do a deal and keep an abundance mindset when building a team. There was a kid that you will probably remember, zach, when we were going to college. I will not say his name, but like he was, he was not team focused, he was all me, me, me, me, me and you know, like he did a lot of deals, but like he was one of those guys and and everybody has their own path. Like I don't ever want to be a self-made millionaire, I want to be a team-made millionaire.
Speaker 2:So have a loving mindset about that, find that team to share. You know that $100,000 act fee with, or whatever it may be right Because you can go further, faster with more individuals. So I hope that helps. You know, some of the listeners kind of give them. Like you know, I was talking to a cousin the other day and it was like he lives in a small town, knows a lot of people, like knows everybody. I was like dude, you should go buy some apartments. He's like we don't have that kind of money. I was like guess what, I'm buying this deal in boise and I'm probably putting 30 grand into it. Like I don't need to have that whole 2.85 million that I need to raise in my pocket to go do it. Like I have the people, I have the money connections right, I'm raising, I know how to raise money, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's being resourceful right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, resourceful yeah.
Speaker 1:And then have that abundance mindset to to want to partner with people and and you know I've jumped on calls going over deals and people want, you know, my team to sponsor it. And then we start talking about GP percentage and you know the it's all in negotiation but they, they, they fight for more and more because they want this higher percentage and it's well, let's, let's go over the things that you're actually bringing to the table and where you land on that. You've never done a deal before table. And where you land on that you've never done a deal before. You don't have the experience. You can sign on the loan because maybe you do have a net worth that you can bring to the table Awesome but you don't have the experience that the lender requires and you've never operated a deal.
Speaker 1:So see where, like, yes, you get value, so you get to be part of the deal, but don't try to fight for a ton of that, because you are coming in to learn that and it's about sharing, right, yeah, and as a as a sponsor, you're not trying to be greedy and say, well, no, I'm taking the whole deal, it's. There's a lot of work that I think a lot of people don't realize that goes into it, right, Like you said, like you're in your brigham city deal, like you're there three to four days out of the week because of it.
Speaker 2:Just it took a lot more than I'm assuming you guys expected, right oh yeah, it was way heavier of a renovation than we ever expected and and I think that came with inexperience too we thought we had enough construction experience on the team, thought we had budgeted enough money and I mean there were it's a 1951 build man, like there's gonna be skeletons behind the closet. We just didn't account for you know, like we, we budgeted literally like and I'm okay talking about this, I'd rather be fully transparent about my experience than be like you know, because there's people who have lost money on deals and they're not going to talk about because it taints their reputation. They feel like it taints, but for me I'm like I want to be as raw as possible.
Speaker 2:I want you to know that we budgeted a million and a half. Dude. We paid a little over three million in renovations. Wow bought that deal for two million and we put three million into it. And most people will be like, wow, you bought it for two and you sold it for six and a quarter. Yeah, isn't it great? And everybody's like, oh my gosh, you made so much money, but like, but, that's, that's no. Like we put three million into it and then investor equity was a million and a quarter. We broke even, man, when we sold that deal in september of this last year. We were able to give our investors 100 return of capital, which was still a win, because we know guys who you know only given 50 back or it's a total wash right, where was I going on with that? Um, where are we going with that? Uh, zach, I At the beginning of where that was going.
Speaker 1:Just the inexperience sometimes, or the yeah, not actually being prepared or not knowing what, potentially all the work that goes into a deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, that's right yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I mean thanks for sharing that and that I mean I remember talking to you about that deal last year at some point and you're just like, yeah, we just we need to offload this and just, you know, call it a win that we got our investors capital back and move on to the next one and we learned a ton from this. Right, I mean it's a huge learning experience, for sure that you could take from that and and operate better on the next opportunity. And, yeah, definitely a win that you kept investors capital during a time that a lot of people haven't been able to do that with with some deals lately, for sure.
Speaker 2:Um, so, yeah, it's all a learning experience every deal it is and I think there's a good lesson there too for new, new people getting into this is that, like the reason we were able to give her a hundred percent return of capital is because we showed up every day.
Speaker 2:You know it would have been really easy to let that deal go to bankruptcy and to foreclose and just be like dang it. Sorry guys, dang it didn't work out. But like I had family money in that deal you know I had money tied up in that deal and like we did have to do a capital call. But even on deals that are tough like this like one of the investors has now invested with me twice since that deal, even though it didn't go as planned, it went bad. Like he's invested a significant amount of money with me twice since that deal, even though it didn't go as planned, it went bad. Like he's invested a significant amount of money with me just because of that trust that we were able to build as we were going through the crap yeah you know, yeah, the transparency, right, the transparency that I'm sure you communicated with your investors.
Speaker 1:Uh, going through all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, sorry, go ahead, go for it. I was just gonna say there, I mean, there's just so many learning lessons, um, that you shared and it's it's been really uh, you know, interesting to learn about your experiences and what you've been able to share with our listeners. And, um, I know, I definitely want to have you come back on on the on the show again we can rerecord some more of just like your journey. Right, we didn't even dive into that, we just dove right into the multifamily aspect, cause we cause we're just we're, we love it so much. But, um, I think we'll do another episode sharing your journey, your story, cause I think you have such a special story that will really impact our listeners. And you know, I mean, your story impacted me too in getting to where I'm at, and we didn't even dive into that, which is okay, because I think we covered a lot for our listeners, but there's so much more behind, I think, our conversation that we could have for sure.
Speaker 2:Cliffhanger.
Speaker 1:Yep, cliffhanger for sure. Yeah, we'll have another one in the coming months, but I do end with three questions. I call them the think bigger questions, so I want to dive into those, just with our time here. The first one is how do you choose to think bigger?
Speaker 2:How do I choose to think bigger? That's an interesting question. How do I choose to think bigger? How do I choose to think bigger? That's an interesting question. How do I choose to think bigger? I and again kind of like what we've talked about a little bit earlier. I've always been kind of a long-term visionary, and so I would first tell you to read the book the Magic of Thinking Big. It's a great place to start.
Speaker 1:There you go yeah.
Speaker 2:I would choose that. But I've always had the mindset like even when Zach first met me I was doing small, multifamily, duplex, fourplex stuff. No-transcript, I know.
Speaker 2:I'm driving a semi right now. But I think, and then that's. I think that's a good answer to the question like how do I choose to? You know, think bigger is it starts today. And looking at where you want to be 10, 15 years, and believing that you can do it. Right, like joe biden can become president. Like why can't you be a multi-millionaire? Right, I should throw political stuff out there. But if somebody has done what you want to do, why can't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, exactly.
Speaker 2:The magic of thinking big.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's perfect. I love that. I love that answer. No, it's great. I mean, I just knowing you, I just know you've always thought bigger too. I think that's a big piece, you know, especially the multifamily mindset um relates a lot to just, I think you and I and in that realm of we love real estate, but then mindset has also played a huge factor in that, right, uh, just spending that time, that money and going in and really developing our mindset, and I think that's pushed the limits to thinking bigger. And now it's, you know, I think that question is it's it really comes easy to you, to what you're thinking, because I know you, you are thinking of these bigger things in the future. Uh, because it's more natural to you now, right?
Speaker 2:natural. It still gets tough like that. Thinking bigger is always evolving too, you, you, know how do I take down a 250 unit and come up with 500,000 of earnest money, Like that was the conversation today. I'm like I don't freaking know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll figure it out.
Speaker 1:We'll figure it out. That's right, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:One thing I'll say like multifamily mindset. Right, that's the company name.
Speaker 2:I would say nothing else matters if you don't have the mindset yeah, right at the end of the day, like we're on the reason we're on this journey, the reason to even make money, like money doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if you're not trying to become a better version of yourself and that comes from mindset and like I've been. My son just got done wrestling and what we found like really helped with him at eight years old. You know wrestling tough kids is like who are you wrestling today? It doesn't matter who the kid is, what his name is, you're wrestling yourself. Who are you competing against today? Yourself? You know it doesn't matter who or what or what the situation is. Anyway, on to question two. Sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and that kind of goes into question.
Speaker 2:Two the second question is how do you define success?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people would say, like buy money in the bank and asset center management and the multifamily Sure, that is a KPI Sure that you can track, that is a KPI sure that you can track.
Speaker 2:Um, like I look at myself of who I am today versus who I was, you know, in 17 and you know I'm living what I prayed for back then. You know I'm living that dream right now and so I think that's a great way to define success. And just being very grateful with where your current situation is, that, even if it's kind of a sad path or a sad kind of world you're living in right now. Like be grateful for that because got kicked in the face and you know I was busted up and wheelchair bound and those were tough times even you know, in the moment. But looking back, like you know, persevering through the tough and becoming who you want to become, is a great definition of success. You want to become is a great definition of success because have you ever heard, uh, like the epitome of hell is when you get to heaven, you look at who you could have become yeah right.
Speaker 2:You're not looking at the mansion, you're not looking at the bentley, you're not looking at the money, like all of those things amplify who you already are. Yeah, I love that, so we just got to remember that because we can get so tied up, like if we're paycheck to paycheck and you know I've definitely been there Like you got to keep that vision of who you're wanting to become, because just focusing and chasing the money when you chase money it runs away from you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go. I love that. I love that. That's perfect. Last question is what is your best advice you can give a new multifamily investor, Someone that's trying to get into this and be an operator? What's your best advice you can give them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would definitely follow those. The five things you need to do a deal, do a self-analysis, find your strengths and find people who complement your weaknesses. And the last thing that I'll say which is you probably be for the next episode is I took a pause from buying any apartments from like 2018 to 21 because I went to work for people who are doing what I already wanted to do. Right, I went and worked for a commercial property management company to learn that side of the business. And then I went and worked for a couple operators around the country learning how to find deals, underwrite you know, do due diligence all the way to dispo the full cycle of the deal. So, find that person. That and, mind you, when I did the property management is a lot is a an 80 unit LIHTC section 24 only got paid 20 a year.
Speaker 2:Right, it's nothing. I did it for the experience. Find somebody doing what you want to do and go. You know if you can do it for free and go. You know if you can do it for free, go. Add value to that person and and and. That that has paid me more than the financial that I, you know from the financial gain. You know I've always had that mindset Cause I did that as a kid, training horses. You know, like I was going to be a big horse trainer one day and I went and mucked out stalls and rode colts to learn how to be a performance horse trainer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, honestly I would say it's not necessarily the easiest, but it is definitely a way to learn is to follow the people that are doing it. Like we said, follow those people and learn from them. I have a very similar kind of a piece there that I've kind of followed. I think follow a little bit of that journey there of just learn from others, and that's whether you're doing it for free or very cheap or you even pay them to teach you a little bit and give a little bit of their time to learn the ropes a little bit faster, and to them to teach you a little bit and give a little bit of their time to learn the ropes a little bit faster and to get to where you want to go. Sometimes you take that risk.
Speaker 2:And then full circle to the beginning of the conversation. The more knowledge you gain like you want that co-GP, great, go get the freaking knowledge you know. I'll tell you a quick last thing that my grandpa always taught me growing up and it's translated into real estate when you have a brand new cult that you're training into that performance horse, like, every time you learn something new. He can jump a ditch, he can fence a cow, he can rope off of, he gets valuable more and more that he learns, right. So you may bought them for a grand, you might sell them at 10. Right, it's the same thing with us. Right, can you learn how to underwrite? Can you learn how to property like asset man. Like, if somebody wants to add a shiz ton of value right now to operators, go learn asset management. How to manage a property manager, how to manage construction, Like that is the not sexy part of this business. Go learn that and you'll add a tremendous amount of value. If you want co-GP, go learn asset management. That's my last two cents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. Well, thanks so much, Joe, for being on Again.
Speaker 1:we're going to record another one, just because we have to, because we need to dive into the backstory of just your journey and um, and how we kind of came across paths there and uh, and share that with with our listeners. Uh, I know it'll be impactful. So again, I appreciate you jumping on listeners. If you like this, please you know, like it, share it with others. Um, and listen for us to come back on here in the near future with another episode with Joe, but with that, we will see you guys next time.
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