Sports pundit and former rugby union player David Flatman joins Naomi on the iCandy Duo Podcast. After representing England eight times and playing club rugby for Saracens and Bath, David is now retired from the sport but there is certainly no time to put his feet up. David is Dad to an 11 year old and 9 year old and has a baby on the way, so we caught up with him to chat about the new chapter ahead and to hear his thoughts on divorce, blended families and paternal mental health.
Sports pundit and former rugby union player David Flatman joins Naomi on the iCandy Duo Podcast. After representing England eight times and playing club rugby for Saracens and Bath, David is now retired from the sport but there is certainly no time to put his feet up. David is Dad to an 11 year old and 9 year old and has a baby on the way, so we caught up with him to chat about the new chapter ahead and to hear his thoughts on divorce, blended families and paternal mental health.
Welcome to the eye-candy DUI podcast with me, Naomi Williams, a 30 something parents of none baffled by how much it's undiscussed in the world of pregnancy and parenthood. I'll be asking the questions because you want the answers to on this podcast, which is brought to you. I can be world makers of beautifully British Bush stares for parents across the globe.
Speaker 2:[inaudible],
Speaker 1:We're delighted to be joined on the eye-candy GA podcast by sports pundit and former rugby union player. David Flatman after representing England eight times and playing club rugby for Saracens and bath. David is now a from the sport, but there is certainly no time to put his feet up. David, his dad to an 11 year old and a nine year old and has a baby on the way. So we caught up with him to chat about the new chapter ahead. Thank you so much for coming onto the eye candy duo podcast. David, how you doing?
Speaker 3:I'm very well, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm I'm just enjoying a coffee, um, a lunchtime coffee. It's lunchtime where I am now in my time zone. And it's the first fuel inverted commas I've taken today because, um, I am, as my mum used to say, I'm on a diet again, but I'm not really, I'm just trying to eat less food because my jeans don't fit.
Speaker 1:You know, I, I been exactly the same place as you with eight, don't get me wrong. I am so excited with the easing of lockdown and all the rest of it, but I do get this kind of pit of the stomach panic. Every time we get closer and closer to being sort of out in the big wide world, because I'm like, when is this diet actually going to happen? Because I know from next week site. Right? Okay. So we've now got X amount of time. Um, and the diet gets more and more extreme.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, now it's things are getting sociable now. So yeah, I dunno. I dunno how I'm going to basically, I mean, our dilemmas might be a slightly different I'm thinking, how do I stay below 20 stone in 2021? That's what I'm doing. That's my aim. I'm naturally quite a big chap. Um, so I holler if I, if I, you know, if I don't eat, I'm about 19 stone, if I do a I'm about 21. So I need to just, I, uh, you know, from a rugby background, I've spent all of my adult, most of my adult life and not my teenage years trying to put on as much mass as possible. And the truth is I basically can't get rid of it. So I just want my jeans. I don't want to have to undo my jeans when I'm driving down the motorway. So bit
Speaker 1:No, Juno, I liked that as a humble goal. That's all we want. Yeah. I have to say, I do quite like you're keeping under 20 stones flip it, make the diet with a slightly different dynamic
Speaker 3:20 in 20, 22. I'll try and stay below 21. So I'm always one year behind. I feel like I'm in front. Um, I mean, I, I, sometimes I, you know, I did go to the doctors a couple of years ago just for something else. And I said, well, while I'm here, can I have a check and sort of mot? And he said, you can't have those, wait, you can't just have an mot on the NHS. They cost money. And I said, what if I told you I was having dizzy spells or whatever? He said, here we go, right. Run a few tests. And he said, everything's fine. Your cholesterol is fine. I said, at this point, I said, I'm 20 stone eight and I'm six foot tall. He said, yeah, you're absolutely fine. This is the size you meant to be. Oh God, really?
Speaker 1:But at the same breath, can I get that? Like on my answer phone, can I get that written down and signed by? Doctor said, I'm perfect. What can I say?
Speaker 3:But before this, before this pot, I was just, I was on a call to a Tate. I live in bark on it to a tailor in Bristol about having some jeans made. And it sounds ridiculous, but I mean, I can't buy a pair of jeans. I spend loads of money on a pair of diesels or replays or whatever. I have to have them tailored. Cause my, you know, from my waist to my thigh or my calf size, I should be six foot 12. And it's like, in the end, he's like, let me make you some, some I'm talking about now. I'm not a rich man. I'm talking about spending 250 quid on a pair of jeans, which would be the only jeans that fit me in my life. So it was like, it's insane. So anyway, this is not what this podcast is,
Speaker 1:But hilariously I'd love it. How this conversation has got so much legs there. I say no party. Um, but yeah, don't do you know what I feel? You're paid though, going to have to bespoke Jayden's it's just like the workwear that's left field, but, but yeah, no, but you know what? Just to get back on track. I mean, David, I feel your pain with all of this, but also you are, you know, congratulations, you're expecting, you're expecting a baby.
Speaker 3:I am, I'm pregnant, you're pregnant.
Speaker 1:That's why the jeans won't fit. You know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. My girlfriend, I were expecting a baby and I am 41 with two children from my former Matt, my first marriage, I am on extremely good terms with my ex wife, um, where we're wearing great terms. That's worked really, really well. And um, we both met new people relatively quickly and she won't have any more children. I said, I, I just wasn't keen. Um, and I just didn't fancy it to be honest, uh, partly laziness. I thought it's too hard. I don't want to do it again. I've done it. And also partly because I didn't know. Um, I just, I don't see how I can love another child as much as I love my two girls. I just don't see how that's possible. And I didn't. And then I kind of had a moment a year or so ago, and I just said, I just, I would love to have a baby with you. What do you reckon? And she said, oh my God, I've been waiting a few to ask type stuff. And um, you know, cause she didn't want to pressure into it because I had to and all that kind of stuff. And um, it's, it's wonderful. So yeah, we were expecting a little girl in September and the children are doing lists of names every day, every night they are obsessed. Um, last night I put them to bed about quarter past nine and a quarter past 10. I snuck upstairs. Cause I heard that it gets still talking and they were just talking about baby staff and who's going to do what nights and who's going to get up and help me in help mommy and daddy and all that sort of stuff and the babies. And who's going to do shifts and what names and
Speaker 1:Must've been such a sense of relief that the girls have taken. It
Speaker 3:Are those, the, the reveal, like, I mean we, my brother, my little brother has down syndrome, cerebral palsy and he has something called a Robinson translocation, which is, I won't bore you, but I'm a carrier of that. Um, whatever you call it, those genetics. So I can I pass that on to, I have, there's a strong, there's a high possibility of me or a possibility of me having a child. Like my brother now we adore my brother, but being completely Frank, my mum, my brothers live with my dad. He's six. Now he's lived with my parents every day of his life. They adore him. He's the center of our family. He's an absolute legend. We just worship him and always have. And we always felt really lucky to have him and my mom's life was, she knew it ended 36 years ago and she has been effectively a full-time carer for nearly four decades. And it's incredibly difficult, but she has never, ever, ever complained. They just adore him. And he has the most amazing life. But that means that we have a sit, we have loads of checks and loads of scans and horrible little procedures and invasive procedures to make sure that our baby isn't like my brother and with the greatest respect and love to him. And, um, he doesn't listen to podcast. Don't worry. He doesn't have to say anything. Um, but, um, we, we didn't find out that about 20 weeks or 18 weeks or something that we were genetically all clear. So the kids kind of knew really. And they were badgering the whole time and, um, Indian, we told them and I filmed it cause it's kind of what you do these days. I didn't put it on Instagram or anything, but just for posterity. And they both just burst into tears, grabbed hold of my girlfriend and me, and just sort of crying with happiness and just over the moon. And when you are a parent, um, who has evolved relatively recently and then you have a new partner and you're having another baby is incredibly important. Well, if they aren't keen and they feel marginalized, ostracized, they feel second best. Um, whatever they feel inferior that is, that would crush me. It would absolutely crush me. So I have been very, very keen to make it their baby is as well as ours. And they are just over the moon. And luckily my ex-wife is a great person. She's not baby. So she doesn't do what a lot of people do, men and women doing these situations, which is just say nasty things about their ex for the sake of it and alienate the children. She is absolutely full on keen for the girls to love this baby. This is their sister. She absolutely wants them to love my girlfriend. I want them to love her boyfriend because they live with them half the time. You know? So it's kind of the whole dynamic is sort of coming together quite well because there it's not just two people fall in love and have a baby. There's all this stuff that went before for me. And that makes it, you know, that gives you a huge amount more to think about actually. Um, but luckily my children just adore by girlfriend and she adores them. She really loves them. And um, it's, you know, it's so far so good. Put it that way.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. Cause I have to say, I mean, I speak to a lot of people on the podcast and actually a lot of the time I've learned a huge amount from various different conversations, but actually we recently just to end on season one, we had a doctor, a child psychologist in, and it's interesting about how obviously, I mean, it sounds obvious, but in the same vein, when you hear it said like this, that children are a reflection of their environments. So do you know if you, like you said, it's incredibly fortunate that you and your ex partner have such a good, solid friendship, you know, and that you do still really respect each other and you wish the best for each other, you know, moving forward because obviously you could see that being reflected in your two girls, you know, they would have learned that off you guys, so well done David and your ex part. And I know, but you know, they would only have known that from like living from the example of YouTube. So that's wonderful.
Speaker 3:You can virtually signal you like, and you can say the right stuff or you like, and then, uh, you know, these days with social media being so rampant and it's, I think it's a largely synthetic age that we're living in. There's so much balls going around the place. There's kind of like people, virtue signaling and people being incredibly emotional and passionate about things. They're not actually thinking about as they close their eyes at night. They just want people to think they're heavily invested in great causes and great things. I think it dilutes the people who actually do do the good stuff actually, but that's a separate subject, but as it happens, my dad's a side child psychologist. My sister is a child psychologist. Um, while they're obviously they're wonderful people and they're very bright and very useful to talk to in these situations. I think a lot of it actually has been. Um, and it's a sound really arrogant when I say it it's actually been me. That's driven it. My, my ex-wife as well. But in terms of my behavior, it hasn't been, I haven't been following instructions from my psychologist father. Um, it's me, who's done it. And I've made it that way. As long as my ex-wife and we have made it work like that. And it's not because I'm the world's best person. So I want to qualify that arrogance. It's not that it's because I buy the most terrifying thing that's ever happened in my life was the thought that I was going to ruin my daughters lives by divorcing from their money. And that is what caused me to be incredibly ill. A few years ago. It made me really ill. It gave me, I mean, I, I, you know, I look back and I realize I was having panic attacks. I was all over the place. I lost four stone in weight in about four months or five months. I didn't eat for days at a time. Um, really solely based around, I knew, I knew to a point I'm being glib now on you to a point that my ex wife would be absolutely fine. I think, you know, there, there was a level of apathy there really not, no anger, no hostility, but I knew, I thought, am I ruining my children's lives? This is their blueprint for relationships that I'm creating. And I think a lot of my great behavior and it hasn't all been great, but a lot of it has been driven by a fear of ruining their futures actually. So I probably thought about it more than I needed to. Um, but actually I thought where is, where is the win in being honorable to their mummy? Where's the win in that? You know, it makes me feel rubbish, hurtful, rubbish, the kids see it. Um, so they just, we haven't, we've just been lovely to each other and accommodating and, um, we've taken care of each other really. So in a difficult time, so our kids have seen that and hopefully, you know, um, my, my divorce and my ex-wife doesn't ruin their romantic futures. That's, that's what I think about really,
Speaker 1:Because you're kind of building a new, well, it it's a lot, but a lot of people call sort of blended families is kind of like a new term, um, where you can, you know, even some celebrities they're seen sort of, uh, going on holidays with each other, with their new partners, it's just an extended family kind of, uh, connection really. Um, and I think that's a lovely thing as you're kind of already thinking that way. Um, do you think your sort of potentially, like, you've sort of mentioned it earlier, but maybe some part of the apprehension of having being a new dad again, was sort of inherently built on this basis of like not wanting to kind of like ruin, that's a really, that's a really weird word choice on my behalf, but like you said, ruin your kind of ch children's futures. Um, you know, maybe it was, you know, cause you don't want to do anything against them, like sort of as a father trying to be selfless. Is that kind of, part of the apprehension of being a new dad?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think one of the fears around having, um, and just being completely honest, I, one of the fear, the main fears around having a baby is how hard it is. And, um, another fear is that it marginalizes my daughters even for a millisecond in the next decade, you know, we'd be a millisecond too many, and that would be agony. I'm a pretty relaxed bloke really, but that would be agonizing to me. And I think I would find that very, very difficult if I thought I was doing that. So I've had long conversations with my girlfriend and I said, look, there are going to be times when there is a baby screaming in the house and it's a bit crap and my girls are here and they're not enjoying being here and I desperately want them to enjoy being at daddy's, you know, and, and you know, I, I don't want them to see it as actually a bit of a pain in the backside being at daddy's and they don't get any attention because of this baby. And there might be times when I just have to leave you for an hour with a crying baby and just take the girls out to, to get a sandwich or go for a walk or take the dog out or something and just be with them so that they are not all consumed by the hard bits of the baby. Um, because I don't want them to, I don't want them to privately say to mommy, or we don't want to go to daddy's or they do all, it was just baby crying all the time and we never get to do anything. And we can't hear the tele cause the baby's crying, you know, they're only little, so they don't know that that's unreasonable. Um, so my, you know, I I've sort of sought clearance for my girlfriend to just occasionally I've said I will make up the time. I promise I'm not gonna lead you in the lurch and use that as an excuse for, there might be times when I just need to take care of them and disappear and it will just be for half an hour or an hour. Um, you know, so it's something I think about a lot, probably too much because when you get there, you're just in the trenches, aren't you for the first six months. So it's kind of, you just find a way to it also, you know, my girls are with me probably about three days a week, something like that. And when my ex-wife and I don't have a custody agreement in our divorce, we just very, we just saw each other out and help each other out. And when, whenever it works and it works better that way, but equally I've got probably, you know, four nights a week without the kids here, um, with the baby so that it's not like I've got all, all three to deal with plus an exhausted girlfriend all the time. So actually I think there will be a lot of time when it's just the three of us, which will make things easier
Speaker 1:Because it's been, I mean, your, your youngest is about nine years old. Yeah. Nine. I mean the last time you were in this place nine years ago, um, you know, maybe things, you know, things have changed. I mean, you're retired now nine years ago. What, what, what did life look like for you? Were you kind of obviously very busy with your career or, you know, is it sort of slightly different for you this time round?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, I want it to be different. Um, well first baby, I, for our first baby, who's 11 now I was a professional rugby player and I wasn't only a pro I was, uh, I was an, a sort of a senior pro by that. I mean, I was getting on a bit and I was struggling to keep up. My body was struggling to keep up. I was worried whether I was going to get another contract and because I kept getting injured and kept getting hurt and you know, it, it, my ex wife actually said, you know, you can be noble if you want and do that stuff, but what is the point I'm not going to work, I've stopped working. So what is the point in both of us being written off every day? So she solely breastfed for six months with the first one. And I think maybe even longer with the second one. So every feed was her and she said, I don't want to do formula. I want to breastfeed. She, she liked that. So it was actually, what's the point that you're getting up in the night. If she wants to feed, what are you going to do? Um, and I've actually got a friend who, uh, believe it or not. He gets up with his wife when she breastfeeds, he gets up with her and sits with her every night and she doesn't need him to, but he thinks he's doing the right thing and sharing the load. All that means is he can't do anything. He's just sitting there with his hand on her leg or holding her hand while she's breastfeeding two or three times a night, you're doing it for months and they're just broken every day, both of them. So she wants to have a nap during the day. And he can't, he's, he's already asleep cause he'd been up all night. It's ridiculous. So it was, we had an agreement suggested by, by my ex-wife, you know, you don't do the nights, don't do the nights because there's not all do those. You've got a job to maintain. You're sort of paying the mortgage as it were. But I think I leveraged that too much. And I think I used that as an excuse to do too little actually. And I regret that I do regret that. And I think here I'm staring at, you know, I'm not the perfect daddy, but I'm really good one. And I, my favorite thing in my life was being a daddy, but I actually think it took me a couple of years to get back to that point. And I think the reason it took me a couple of years is because I didn't invest enough in it at the start. I thought, well, I'm a, I'm a pro athlete. I need my rest. I need to do what I need to do. I've been conditioned to be selfish. So it's all, all right, everything I want to do is all right. And um, I regret that and my ex-wife took, you know, did more than I think her fair share of, you know, she kind of didn't do everything she would say she did, but of course she did it. I mean, I was, I was in the building, but it's it, she did so much more than me in those early years. And um, I really regret that. So I want to do more of this time and I want to help out my girlfriend because it's the right thing to do. And, um, and I know that it helps her and it helps the baby and it helps me and it helps the bond and all that stuff. But I think if you don't people say, they've got, everyone loves to say, if you've got any regrets in life. Nah, no regrets. You know, I never no regrets lifestyle, but nice one, is there anything you'd do differently if you did it again? Yeah. Well that qualifies as a regret for me. You have to cry yourself to sleep about it. But for me, I regret I would do it differently and I intend to do it differently this time around. So for me, that qualifies as a life regret actually. And you know, I'd acknowledge that to my ex-wife a few times and it's all fine and everything will everyone's happy, but I intend to be more involved, put it that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Cause I think it's actually quite an advantage point that, you know, cause also you like David nine years ago is going to be just generally a different man now. And that's because of all that experience that you've had, that you can have that sort of retrospection and go, okay, if I was going to give myself this advice or even if you were going to give a friend some advice, it's just like, yeah, like you say, just be a little bit more present at the start, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And do you know this, this is about, this is about babies and parenthood and stuff. There's pot. I know that. And I'm um, I read all the auditions book a while ago, a ghost on our. He loved it, absolutely loved it. One of my favorite books ever. And she talks about something called acute mention itis, which is when someone's got something going on in their life and it's all they can talk about and it's unbelievably annoying. So I think I've got divorced, acute mentioned itis, but it just because it ties in so closely with the parenthood thing, for me, it's, it's a big part of it. Um, I kind of almost keep it up, but I do think that, you know, I've been through some major things in my life like everyone has. Um, I think divorce has taught me more about being a good person than anything else in my life. Um, as weirdly being very, very, very difficult, even though it was amicable pretty much the whole way through, um, and still is, is taught me so much if you're willing to be introspective and you're willing to, you know, be aggressively balanced about things and force yourself to see things from someone else's point of view when situations like this are hard, I think you can learn so much. I, I seal a sore every day for about two years, how it could go pear shaped and how I could react to something or she could react to something. And if you just it's made me such a better dad, like infinitely better at being a dad being divorced and he shouldn't have to come to that. That's my point. You know, it should come before you get to that point. It didn't last time, but it will this time.
Speaker 1:Do you think your, your career choice is being a sportsman? Cause you're not the first person I have to say that I've spoken to, that have dedicated their lives to sport and the inherent selfishness that you have to take. You know, like the, the hours you have to put in, the focus you have to give, um, obviously comes with a huge sacrifice, you know, that you have to kind of like miss out on certain things and you know, really focused on that. Do you think almost your job choice inherently maybe gave you one focus and now obviously, you know, you're a tired and with the divorce, it's kind of changed your mindset from how it was.
Speaker 3:Do you know? Uh, yes and no. I think physically you have to be selfish as an athlete. You have to take care of your body. I mean, I wasn't the most professional professional to be honest with you, but you have to take care of it. So you miss weddings, you miss parties, you miss lash ups, you miss stag dues, you know, but my job now is commentating on sport. And so, um, what I think the biggest issue is that my weekends, I work at weekends. So, you know, you've got in when everyone else is available, I'm gone again. And that's been the way since I was 18. It's always been that way since I played. And now I'm still going to matches every weekend, right? Except last weekend, it was Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Whereas when I was playing, it was only Saturday, only one of those days. So in a sense, it's, it can be harder now. I think I'm, uh, I can, you know, I can go for dinner and have a few beers and I can stay up like, and get up through the night and do all that stuff now without, you know, fatigue being an injury risk. But I still, my career just happens in my, you know, my ex-wife didn't mind really that I just wasn't there that much, uh, weekends, but I look back and think that's pretty tough for her. And you know, my girlfriend now is like, you know, we're going to have a baby and you're going to be gone every weekend when I want to relax and socialize with you. And I said, correct. That is, and it wasn't ideal with their ma it was like, that is what I do. That's who I am. You know, what I do is at weekends and equally, I'm here loads during the week. And if you're not at work, which you won't be for awhile, I'll be with you five days a week and often six days a week, which is a lot more than other parents, frankly, other fathers Franklin. So my work is very flexible. I'll be, I'll spend a heck of a huge amount of time at home compared to my mates that work for insurance companies and banks and all that. Um, but you know, let's, let's book a weekend away. Well, I'm afraid we can't. So we're trying to book a summer holiday at the moment. And I'm, I said, I'm afraid there isn't any time. So there isn't one. So we want to, she wants to mini break. I said, sorry, there is not a weekend. Here's my diary find a weekend between now and September when we can go there. Isn't one. There is not one. So that's that. And what do you do about it? I mean, it's, this is what I do. I'm not, I'm 41. I'm not just going to start commuting at 4, 5 30 on the five 30 train to London and begin a career in finance. My career is in sport. It gives me a great lifestyle, but there are drawbacks, you know? So it, oddly I'm kind of involuntarily selfish now. So it's still happening, which I feel guilty about.
Speaker 1:Do you know, it's, it's the nature of the kind of the business isn't there, but like you say, you actually have possibly more available days now, but they're just not necessarily
Speaker 3:90% of 90% of men in the UK. So it's almost in a sense it's like what you're moaning about, but it's like, well, whenever our friends get together, I'm going on my own. I said, yeah, that that is true. And that's rubbish, but it's what I do. It's who I am. I love my job. And it's not like, do you want the big house or mill love? It's nothing to do with that. It's it's like, this is, she loves how much I love my job. She's she's, you know, she is in love with my passion for my job. She adores it equally. There are drawbacks, that's all. And everyone has those, but I'm not. But, um, you know, I've got lots of mates who work and work in the city and they don't see their children until Saturday. I mean, they genuinely do not see their children until Saturday. And when they're young. So if the kids are going to bed before 7, 7 30 at night, but one day I won't name him. Cause he I've always named it before it, he didn't like it. But he said, he basically didn't see his children Monday to Friday until they were three or four years old. I mean, never, never saw them during the week. Never went to their school, never worked in a big bank. No days off, never went to their school, you know? So it could be worse.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of baths. I mean, that's, that's a known thing for, I think for a lot of people, um, a lot of people listening as well, um, that will know the, kind of the realities of, you know, bringing up children today and, um, keeping your heads above water, regardless of what you do with how you do it.
Speaker 3:I made my kids breakfast this morning, got the lazy that gets out of bed, made them breakfast for some to wash force one, to wash their hair because it looked like it had been dipped in ship, fat cleaned, all that cleaned the nine and all their uniform didn't. So I didn't own it wash to dry to their uniform. Gone dressed, gone to school, made a lot, you know, nobody breakfast and all that. And I've been to the gym, goes to the shops to do a bit of laundry, which I don't do enough of apparently. And all that stuff is happening all day today. And I'll pick one of them up before. One of them are five, I've got hot dogs lined up for tonight. I've got a movie lined up. Um, you know, and I've got, we've got a baby scan in the morning at eight, which means I dropped the kids off early at my ex-wife's house already ready to go. They can walk to school, you know? So this is just a standard weekly program. You know, that I'm, I'm doing the same, I'm flying around trying to get everything done. And, but my job has me smiling on telly. So it just looks gravy and what a life, but actually the days I'm at home, I'm that just like, mommy's a mom, it's exactly the same. You know, I'm sort of doing all that business and realizing that my girlfriend's coming home from work tonight and I haven't done any of the washing up from last night then. So I'm just looking across the kitchen now. So She'll judge me on that.
Speaker 1:I have to say, cause by at my house was actually feedlots ad. He used to love it when I used to come back from the office. Cause he knew he had a certain time to get certain things done by, and now I'm at home. It's like, oh God, you could see the truth. I do X, Y, and Z during this time and all this kind of stuff. But I'm like digging a pig today. But um, I mean, how have your friends take it? So yeah. You know, any friends that have recently had, you know, kneeboards and stuff, if you've gone to them for some advice, because it's been nine years, but you know, it's not, not a huge amount has changed, but like you say, like social media is a lot more prevalent now and stuff like that. I mean any kind of great pearls of advice you've got from some of your mates, staff become new parents recently.
Speaker 3:There's one from a friend of mine, lovely bloke, amazing dad, believe it or not. When I tell you this, he's got a similar gap and he's got a two year old now and he said, mate, don't do it. Don't do. It was when I said we might have a baby, do you have a baby? Might do any. And he said, don't do it mate. He said, honestly, I love him so much, but I absolutely hate my life. I have no time. He's always ill. I hate my life. The weekends are the worst days of all. When they're meant to be the best. I hate my life. It's awful. I hate my life. Don't do it. I said, by the way, uh, this, the same phone call by the way we're expecting. And he just burst into hysterical. Laughter. He's like, oh my God. Oh my God, you idiot. You don't do it. He was genuine. Don't do it. I love him. I love him. Please don't do it for me. Don't do this. So I rang another mate after that to tell him, and he was just like over the moon and all these flowers arrived and he's, I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased. We've got a big gap between three and four and it's the best thing we ever did or I'm so happy for you. The girls are going to love it. So contrasting reactions. But it, that way,
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean hats off to the Fred that, or they go to him for some like, well I was going to say honest advice, but I mean, Lord, perhaps that's quite the, uh, the feedback.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, he's maintaining them equally. He is the most, I won't say his name. He is the most amazing dad like full on hands-on does the lot, all the time. He's amazing. But he's just like, he is happy to be easy, you know, he hates having to be so selfless, but he does it with no visible resentment.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, so I can't believe actually we've got a Z was going to kick us out in about five minutes. So just to kind of know, I asked you, I honestly, this is, it's been wonderful having a chat with you about it actually. Cause it's, it's such a kind of, um, I don't know. I don't think there's a lot out there when it talks to you about new families from a D you know, but from, you know, from a divorce and it also in a dad's perspective, I don't think sometimes these things get spoken about enough. Even with, like you say with you may, you know, you gotta be a bit, whatever ever advice. I think our listeners will get a lot out of this just to kind of hear a really honest other side of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I was chatting with a mate this morning. Who's having his third baby soon as well. Very, very similar gaps and all that. And um, he's, he's in the armed forces and they've got a brilliant system where you can take up to six months paternity leave and you start to pay it back at the end kind of thing. But so you can't take the Mickey, but you can have it. I've got another mate who works for Diageo, the big drinks for him. And he gets six months paternity and all that stuff. And my job is I'm freelance. There's no paternity here. Like just like there was no grants or benefits or anything during COVID it just deleted me and you get what you get and that's fine, but it's it's um, I think rightly the vast majority of concern is directed towards new mums. Rightly however, I think that I don't think men are ignored, but I think more and more men's voices are being heard. And it's, it's a, it's a challenging time for daddies as well. You know, it's also very difficult for us, but as soon as you say that, it's almost like, you know, we're seeking sympathy and I don't think we are, I'm not, I'm not seeking any sympathy at all. Um, in fact, I want to do, because I felt like I didn't deserve any sympathy first time around, but I think I'm sort of preparing for it to be wonderful, but difficult actually in difficult for a, quite a long period because I'm frankly not used to being that selfless. And, um, what I've needed to do is generally taken priority. Not because I'm an alpha, horrible gear, but it's like if I'm commentating on a rugby game, it kicks off at three o'clock on a Saturday. I can't push that back for an hour. Now I've got to be there. So it's live telly that that is happening. Whereas you can put emails off, you can put the odd zoom call off. You can't put off a kickoff on live telly. So where I have to be is where I have to be. Um, so there's, there's some adjustments coming, but I'm, I'm actually really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. And David, thank you so much for coming on. I've so enjoyed chatting and listening to you, uh, this afternoon. Uh, but just to end. And so just to give a heads up, we've got three minutes. Um, but what are you most looking forward to, uh, come September when your daughter turns out?
Speaker 3:Uh, I'm actually most looking forward to my daughters, my existing daughters, uh, getting to know their and showing love to their new little sister. That's that's the most important. That's the biggest thing for me to be honest, I also, my girlfriend was just born to be a mom. She was just incredibly maternal children love her. She loves children. I can't wait to see her move from the exhaustive phase to the sort of glowing phase where you can really appreciate what you've got. And I can't wait for that. Um, just watching her beam cause I know she would just love it. She's obsessed with babies and children. So it's just perfect for her. Um, I'm looking forward to actually the stage when they start giving something back, just being completely honest. Um, and I'll, I'll do all the lovely stuff before that, but when you start getting smiles and a bit of movement and a tiny little bits of independence of movement and thought that a bit. So, um, I'm looking forward to the most
Speaker 1:Fantastic, well all the best and we can't wait to see the little lady when she arrives in September. Wonderful. Well thank you so much, David, and have a lovely day running around after your girls, by the sound of it, getting a little bit of washing and yeah, take care and thanks so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much
Speaker 1:To find out more information about the topics covered in today's podcast hits the eye-candy blog page on www.eyecandyworld.com forward slash blog. You can also catch up on season one, featuring thought provoking and engaging interviews from a mix of industry leaders, experts, celebrity, parents, and healthcare specialists all via your preferred podcast provider. If you enjoy today's episode and don't forget to leave a review and hit like and subscribe to ensure you never miss an episode. I candy is a proud supporter of great Ormond street children's hospital charity every day, new challenges at gosh and this extraordinary hospital depends on charitable support to give seriously ill children the best chance of fulfill their potential identification from as little as 10 pounds could pay for a genetic test that will help diagnose sick children. I'll say only 50 pounds could cover the cost of one night. Stay for parents in Ghosh's family accommodation every little bit helps support both children and parents alike and making a challenging time as comfortable as possible. If you'd like to make a donation, please head to discover DOT's eye candy, world.com forward slash gosh.