Season 2 Episode #20 A Conversation with Author Naomi O' Brien

On today’s episode I  chat  with Rockstar Author & Educator Naomi O'Brien Naomi is a wife, mom, author, creator, presenter, and educator who currently lives in Los Angeles, California. She enjoys using her creative skills to teach students how to read and help caregivers and other educators teach important lessons to children.

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Naomi O'Brien
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Transcript

0:36

Hello everyone. My name is Jebeh Edmunds and welcome to the Cultural Curriculum Chat. Today we have a wonderful guest. I am just so happy to introduce. To you, another rockstar teacher, Mrs. Naomi O'Brien. I am seriously fan girling right now. Naomi is a wife, a mom, author, creator, and presenter, an educator who currently lives in Los Angeles, California. She enjoys using her creative skills to teach students how to read and help caregivers and other educators teach important lessons to children. So welcome to our show, Naomi Very much. I'm so excited to be here, Aww, thank you. So please share with our audience, you know, what's your story and how did you grow up and perceive multicultural education? Yeah, so my story is that I've always really enjoyed, um, my upbringing in the fact that my parents are not, um, American. They are from Antigua and St. Kits in the Caribbean. So I always was very aware of this is my culture, this is not my culture. Um, cuz our home was very much Soca music playing, curry being cooked. And I became very rare at an early age that that is not what was going on in my other friend's homes. Another unique layer to that is that my dad was in the Army for 20 years, so we traveled around and lived in so many different places, and met so many different families from all over the world. and it was kind of this culture shock actually, when he retired and we were off of an army base because it was all segregated. Like I grew up with, my neighbor was from Korea, this other neighbor was from Hawaii, this neighbor was from India, this neighbor was from Germany. And then suddenly it was a very, Oh no, like where did all the culture go? It's not like this in the real world, outside of the army base. So, um, I got to see a lot of cultures and I. Well, my education wasn't exactly multicultural. My lived experience was just due to my family, you know, visiting family in New York, going back to the islands to visit people and then just living in my neighborhoods. Um, so I was, I felt like I was able to see that contrast and kind of say like, Wait, I'm not represented at school, or My neighbor's not represented at school. And, um, probably pick up on things that other children normally. For sure. Definitely. And it's kind of neat because I grew up in a Liberian household too, so you know that Soca music, I remember that as a child too. I love that. Yeah. And, and also when you talk about not having that representation in your classroom, that sparks something in you didn't it, to create something. Not quite knowing yet, right? Mm-hmm. But knowing that there's something. Something missing there. and let's talk more about that now, you know, with your experience going through our school system in the United States, what were things that you observed? You know, like we talked about things that were missing. Did you have, BIPOC teachers in your space growing up in your childhood as well? I really didn't. Um, something I did have though is a lot of male teachers, especially in elementary school, which isn't, isn't always everyone's experience, but No, they were largely, just white educators, wherever we were. And we lived, I was born in Texas, we lived in Germany, we lived in Louisiana, Washington State, Georgia, and then eventually Florida. And it was largely white. Not until I got to high school did I get some teachers of color, but even. It was a majority white experience. And that was something like talking about like race in different cultures was something my parents were very open about. So it's something that my mom would point out all the time and she was constantly telling us, You need to carry yourself this way. You need to speak this way cuz you will be perceived this way in America by Americans. You know, like, and they had to figure that out when they came from their island, which is, you know, 100% black people. They didn't have those issues. But then to come to the States, in their early twenties and suddenly. Oh, whoa. There's there's different rules here and people treat you differently here where they never had to. Deal with that. I mean, they probably had the colorism issue going on, but not just the hierarchy of like color. Yes. Yeah. And that, that the, the nuances, correct. Mm-hmm. that those underwritten rules when you come in as an immigrant of, you know, knowing how to, perceive yourself and how others will perceive you. Yeah. Oh, that's powerful. Now as a creator and author, what tools have you used to create this space? Tell us more about your reading, like a rockstar platform with our audience. Yeah, so it really just started as a place to share just straight up regular reading ideas. But as I grew in that space and as I got to explore social media and Instagram more, and I saw other teachers and like really white teachers with bigger. Some of the stuff they were sharing was so problematic, or it wasn't multicultural, or it wasn't accepting or inclusive of everybody. And I was like, that's a really big problem. And I was always searching for that person with a really big platform that was going to do something about it. That was gonna be the example. And it wasn't happening. And I was like, I'm just, I was really small at the time, but I was like, I can be the example. I'm not seeing it, so I'll be that because teachers would put out their 50 books, you must read to your students this school year. And it was, it wasn't representative of everybody at all. Um, you know, it's white children and animals. And then it was like, where are the students of color? Where are different genders, different abilities, different body sizes. Different languages even. It just wasn't missing. So I was like, Okay, well I can step into that role and kind of like say the stuff that I wish that I saw, because these people are influencing so many other people's classrooms and not necessarily in the best way, even though that wasn't their intent, you know? So that's what I really started to share about, and just more as I saw more problematic things or the way people. Make fun of students names, and usually that's gonna be the name of a student that isn't a typical American name. And it was like, that's just showing me that you don't value culture and you're not thinking about maybe that parent gave that child that name for a reason that is, you know, special in their culture. And it's not typical for you, but it is typical and special, you know, and an honor in their culture. So just having to post stuff about that and hoping to open people's eyes because I was. These people are in the classrooms impacting other people's children, you know? And I was like, I have to say something. I can't just not say anything. And it's kind of like what I wish some of my teachers saw when I was little, because something I always talk about with one of my best friends is, I don't think a single teacher of mine ever even knew where I was from. Um, you know, they didn't know that, like, what was going on in my house. no stories or lessons were even brought up about like where I lived, um, except for like trans elected slave trade and they went to the Caribbean first before they came here. But other than that, I was never seen or represented. And I was like, if I can like make a difference, I will. And from that, people were. It's really hungry for that. You know, It's like, it was kind of like they didn't know what they didn't know, and then once they had a place to learn from, they were excited to learn more. So that's, How I grew up. I am just so proud of you because your, your work and even, your partnership too. With the apron teaching with an apron, um, it's just even the biggest topic too, especially in honor, Indigenous, heritage month, the first Thanksgiving. I love your unit fact or fiction. You know, and when I taught fifth grade, there was a lot of those multiple lenses that I tried in my classroom to share with students. And how you have it laid out where kids can look at pictures and decipher and ask these open ended in depth questions. And as educators. We really want our students to think critically, but how you craft at Naomi and your partner, you take it up another level. I mean, it's like, wow. Even as an adult, you know, and your young self, you, you are self reflective of, wow, this is the stuff like what you said, what you didn't know. And now you're hungry for, And that's what I'm excited of your work to share with my audience too, because this is stuff that's actionable. It's right in real time that teachers can download right away and share. Um, parents, you know, can use the, the materials as well to have these conversations with their kids. I feel like in this, uh, multicultural space right now with education of allkids parents are very stuck and overwhelmed. And as a mother yourself, you have a, your mother of two boys and so am I. As a parent, what do you want their teachers to know? Yeah. So, Well thank you for saying that about the lessons because it is something we. Go out of our way to make sure is happening. Like we're like put it back on the students, present the facts, and then put it back on the students to have these critical discussions. Like we're not here trying to change people's minds, but give them all of the information. Cuz we think about the single narrative we were given, growing up of this is what happened, memorize it, take it for the test. And that's that. But it's like, no, like history should be this debate. It should be all these thoughts and perspectives always. Who's missing? Is there bias going on here? Is this factual? Yes. You know, to get to like, arrive at your conclusions. Um, but then, yes, you nailed it, honey. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Um, it's definitely something that I, I mean, I wouldn't say I battle with, but it's something that is always at the forefront of my mind, what my son is going through. Um, he's in, my oldest one is in second grade right now. Um, and my youngest one is three. But even with. We just got a little flyer saying the three year olds are gonna have a Thanksgiving performance. And that immediately made me say like, Oh my goodness. And I had to go and ask, what are they gonna be singing about? Are they gonna be dressed up like indigenous people? Because if so, we're not gonna be participating and you shouldn't do that. And here's why. Which luckily it wasn't that. It's just about being thankful. but there's this constantly stuff that you're up against that is traditional or classic or people just think, Oh, it's just good fun. So there is constantly like that looking through homework and making sure that stuff is accurate so that I can talk to the teacher about it or, you know, talk to my son about how, hey, like your, your work said this, but this wasn't necessarily true, which the honestly haven't had too much of that. Um, so that's been really good. And then I'm always, I don't know if the teachers love it, but I'll always. Hey, I know this month is coming up. I created these resources like use if you can. I never say like, I hope you use this, and I'm like, Use this if you can. And they've always been appreciative in the grade levels so far. Oh, definitely. And, you know, um, being in the classroom as well, it is so fast to keep up with our pacing guides and our standards and benchmarks that we have to achieve. And I, I constantly, when I was in the classroom, you know, Looking for resources to still fulfill those standards and benchmarks, but also have that critical eye of who is missing? Why aren't we talking about their perspective? Who can I invite from the community to share that perspective? So the kids have that multifaceted view and I love that because you know, as a parent, You, are seeing things and you're knowing months are coming up and you kind of hold your breath a little bit going. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Is this teacher gonna be culturally responsive or am I gonna have a little conversation with her or him? Mm-hmm. you know, off on the side. And even as a parent, I know my boys are like, Oh, here we go, mom. why do you wanna know? Why you ask? It's like, is this play coming on again? Cuz I remember that play in the eighties and it didn't go, you know, those are the things, it's important. And then I'm like, well, I can't just stop at my side. I was like, now I have to talk to the teacher too. Because what about all your Yes. Yes. Because then I know, you know, and as a, as a teacher, and I know there's gonna be, you know, teachers that are excited about your help. And there will be some teachers with that pushback because one I give. Excuse, but they're afraid. You know, they're, they're used to, Oh, this is my bucket. This is my bucket for this particular subject. Now you gotta have to audit my bucket. Now it's like, yeah, we gotta get rid of that bucket you know? For sure. Yeah. But I, I love, you know, like I said, the big takeaways that you have with your work, your social media presence, that's how I found you, and it's. It's positive, it's airy, and it also has those questions too, of having those reflective moments, and I really thank you for that. I love your depth and complexity, um, critical thinking resource because when I taught primary grades, A lot of our students, you know, that were in that middle, you know, were getting what they needed, but the kids that needed that extra push, you know, I had a first grader who was reading The Hobbit, loved him, you know, and his parents were college professors. But I'm like, I wanted to give him that extra push. And what you do for, those kids in that small group that need that extra push. I, I have to thank you for that because I love how you. Space for them where you've got the multiple perspectives, sunglasses, icon, you know, and, language of detail and the what and the who. You can take that resource and craft it to the stories and the literary work that they're already doing, but you're taking it up a notch. And so how do you do? that extra critical lens for your other multicultural work, with your, civil rights movement and your Navajo code talkers. Is there something that you could give advice to the teachers as well for those extra students that really need that push? Yeah. Um, so depth and complexity is my absolute favorite. Um, and I would suggest if anyone listening has not heard about it or learned about it, to just do a quick Google search of it and just start to like really take in the questions. Like there's usually so many question stems that you can, like, take baby steps to dive into it. Um, and I would suggest starting with one icon, you introduce it to your students and over time you will see how it changes your students. And I pose it for everybody because what's so great about the framework of depth and complexity is that it's fantastic for those higher students that we can sometimes miss. But it's great for everybody as well. So it's like it's pushing everybody's thinking and it's including those higher students as well. And it just shifts the thinking in the, The example that I love to use is the Three Little Pigs, which is just the most basic book I can think of, But if you apply depth to complexity to it, and you're thinking about. The Wolf's motive and how the characters changed over time and how would the, the Wolf from the Little Red Riding Hood think about the wolf from this story. And you're thinking about different perspectives and you're adding in the ethics of it with, is it okay for the wolf to be hunting the pigs? Is it, is it just predators and pray? Or is it bad guy versus good guy? It just gets them thinking in such different ways about stories, and then you truly see them over time. applying that thinking to different stories and then even bringing it outside of just literature and then like social studies, you can bring it into social studies. So same thing, how did this law change over time? How did customs and you know, this country change over time? What are the different perspectives? Like we think, you know this about the Vietnam War, What do Vietnamese people think about it? And that's something for me, I'm like, we never learn about it from that perspective. And you never even thought to consider. Because you weren't pushed to consider it, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, so I just love like incorporating that in as many places as possible, um, to like, just help kids think critically and help them to start to do it on their own even when I'm not there. Ah, love that Naomi. Love, love, love that. So, um, just another quick thing, what else do you want educators, parents, you know, to know about multicultural education? For all of our. Yes, I would love for them to know. I see a lot of, um, multicultural education accounts or people talking about it, and it's usually only centered on books. And I would love for them to know that it can be incorporated into everything. Even just your classroom management system can be multicultural. Just taking into consideration who's in the room, the different practices, different beliefs, different backgrounds, like how do they do things in their home? And how can you incorporate that into the classroom? Like we wrote Lanesha and I, you know, we wrote a book, Unpack Your Impact and, and part of it we say, Our students are expected to just drop their culture at the door and mold to the culture of the classroom. And it's usually the teacher's culture, which may or may not match the student's culture. So they're at a disadvantage if the teacher doesn't take anything about that child into consideration. And we think about the decor in our classroom, we think about our lessons, like, how can you get to know your students and then incorporate you? Stuff from their backgrounds into your lessons. And like you said, like we have standards, we have to teach. Sometimes people have to teach curriculum with fidelity and that's fine. But then you can even, like if you have to teach about the Gold Rush, teach about the gold rush, and then share a different perspective what else was going on in the world at that exact same time in this country or the state that maybe your student is from. Um, just bring in different types of learning. Just consider like all the underrepresented, cultures and backgrounds, cuz even we all have people kind of push back and say, Well, my class is all white. So it's like, well, if you have the dominant culture, then you have an even bigger job to make sure you are exposing them to all of these different cultures because you don't want them to be that child that grows up, has never been exposed to anybody, and then mistreats people or thinks it's weird. Or, you know, segregates themselves from people based on differences because they've never had a chance to explore how beautiful diversity and inclusiveness is So just making it more than just books. Um, and really thinking about it in everything. And even culture. This is something that whenever I like will lead a PD. It's like when I talk about culture, people think about like, oh, food, language, race, things like that. And it's like, culture is food, but it's also who cooked it? Where did you eat it? What was it seasoned with? Are you eating with your fingers a fork? Chopsticks, like it's every single thing. So to just like even broaden your thoughts and like sense of like what culture. And Naomi is, is, it's more than a recipe, and I love that. Who's cooking it? What utensils are being used? How is it seasoned? How is it prepared? That takes it to a whole nother level. Mm-hmm. and, and I really love how you say it is, it's more than just books, you know, and, and your day to day routines, classroom management strategies, how we greet each other, you know? And, and, and I also agree too. With the majority culture, you know, in the classroom. I always say, don't assume that child might be with a multicultural, you know, Liberian auntie, you know mm-hmm. who has, you know, who might be blonde hair and blue eye like myself, who had nieces and nephew that are Scandinavian. But you can't assume you know that it's that dominant culture in your class. And I love that how you have to be proactive because when they do encount. People that are from different walks of life, they might, you know, have that segregative feeling towards different groups. Oh, wonderful. Love that tip. Um, before we go, um, any other tips and tricks? I love that you can promote different cultures. I love that about, you know, going more in depth of how things are prepared with foods. What else could we do? Yeah, I always say with any child, with any age, start with their culture. Because you can get that buy in. You can help them. See, this is a part of your culture. You do have culture. Cuz some kids are like, I don't have any culture. Yes you do. Here's what it is, here's why it's really important. Celebrate it because, and do it early. Like we do it the first few weeks of school now instead of like, About me. What's your favorite color? We're like, What's your culture? What's your background? What's your language? How does you family me dressed? What's your religion like? Do you go to church? Do you not go to church? And then when you learn about other cultures throughout the year, when Hispanic Heritage Month is coming up and Italian American and indigenous people, they can care about other cultures because they can connect it back to, well, this is important in my culture. So even though that isn't for me, I can understand why it's important to them, and this respect can be built and this curiosity and this appreciation even. That's not different or that's not weird, it's just different, you know, like, Oh, I do it this way, this person in my class does it that way. And it's really cool to learn about all these people so that by the end of the year they're just really taking in culture and appreciating it. all year long. Oh, year long. Oh, I love it. Naomi, before we go, where can our people find you? Yes, you can find me on Instagram. Um, read like a rockstar teaching on Instagram, and then read like a rockstar on TikTok. I'm not on TikTok as much, but definitely Instagram is my spot to be. And then I also have a website, which is read like a rockstar teaching.com with lots of blog posts about culture and depth and complexity and lots of fun resources. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Naomi for this talk and thank you audience for listening to the Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds. We'll see you next time for more fun educational resources that you can use every day. Thank you.