Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds

Season 6 Episode #8 My Conversation with Executive Director of Black Men Teach Markus Flynn

• Jebeh Edmunds

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Join me as I sit down with Marcus Flynn, the trailblazing Executive Director of Black Men Teach, who shares his inspiring journey from the heart of a vibrant Black community in Chicago to his current mission in Minnesota. Marcus's path, which initially led him towards epidemiology, took a pivotal turn as he recognized the critical need for Black male educators in the classroom. His story is a testament to the power of representation and the profound impact that dedicated educators can have on the lives of their students.

Together, Marcus and I explore the mission of increasing the presence of Black male teachers in Minnesota's elementary schools and the transformative influence they hold. Through personal stories and heartfelt reflections, Marcus illustrates how these educators not only engage students but also create lasting bonds with their families and communities. This conversation underscores the urgent need for diversity in education and the continuous efforts required to build an inclusive learning environment where all students can thrive.

We also get into the challenges and misconceptions surrounding Black male teachers, highlighting the unique support systems and camaraderie that make teaching a fulfilling career choice for them. Marcus shares invaluable insights from his extensive experience, emphasizing the strategic relationship-building skills that Black male educators bring to the table. This episode is a powerful call to action for community involvement, urging listeners to support initiatives like Black Men Teach. Connect with us to learn how you can contribute to this essential cause and help shape a more equitable education system for future generations.

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Speaker 1:

Hello everyone. Jeba Edmonds here, host of the Cultural Curriculum Chat podcast and, if you're watching Mrs Edmonds Cultural Corner on YouTube, the guest chair today we have Executive Director Marcus Flynn, with Black Men Teach share with us his insights and expertise on how he recruits and retains and prepares our black male educators in the state of Minnesota. I am so excited that he is here with us today and before we get started with this interview, be sure to subscribe to Mrs Edmund's Culture Corner and the Culture Curriculum Chat Podcast so you can get all things multicultural educational practices for your classroom and your communities. So welcome, marcus. I am so excited that you're here with us today.

Speaker 2:

Thank, you for having me. I'm looking forward to the conversation. I appreciate being. I'm looking forward to the conversation. I appreciate being invited. I'm looking forward, I'm excited.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, awesome. So, marcus, help us with our audience. Learn more about your background. I know you were a classroom teacher for fifth and sixth grade, but just help us, you know. Get to know Marcus and what led you to this work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, great question. So, born on the south side of Chicago, raised mostly south suburbs of Chicago, grew up in a predominantly Black community. I tell people to this day my longest standing doctor I've ever had Black man Went to a school, graduated from a high school where we had Black valedictorian, who was a Black young woman, who was a cheerleader, went to Harvard 63 per. There was a Latinx man who went to Stanford and there was another who was a white man, a white young man, a white guy, who went to Northwestern A dope community. Because I always got a chance to be represented right.

Speaker 2:

I've had black educators elementary, middle, high school. I could probably name 10 people who I graduated with, who probably the 10 Black folk who have PhD, jd, doctorate before the age of 30, just in a unique environment. I'm learning that more and more as I go through life. Yeah, just an excellent environment and incredible people who I'm still connected with to this day and really laid a seed that kind of helped me grow into who I am now. I went to college in Iowa, which is so random. At the time I was a very different person to who I am now. I'm very thorough, thoughtful, make a very well-vetted decision Back then I got an email that said, sorry, you don't have to pay a fee to apply and I said, cool, sign me up.

Speaker 2:

Got a little bit of scholarship money and it was a big school and I said I'm going, didn't do a visit, didn't know what I was going to major. My first day on campus was orientation, and so immediately was culture shock when I got there too. But when I reflect on it, it was a good decision. I ended up studying health sciences, stayed to get my master's. I wanted to be an epidemiologist at the time and really that experience is what led me to be a classroom teacher, now the executive director of Blackman Teach.

Speaker 2:

I had a mentor who was also one of my fraternity brothers and a member of Alpha Phi from Chuck Incorporated. He told me that if you want to find your purpose in life, you have to intersect your passion and your talent. And I remember being fixated on that idea. How do I intersect my passion and my talent? And I realized quickly that the work in epidemiology it wasn't that, it wasn't the statistical analysis component, it wasn't enough. That wasn't really my skill set. And so I had to ask myself what is? It's a humbling conversation to sit down and really ask yourself what am I truly gifted at?

Speaker 1:

And I realized.

Speaker 2:

You know, I really wanted to be more of a practitioner than a researcher. I wanted to be someone who's implemented. I really wanted to have proximity with people. But the most influential thing when I was doing my reflection is actually the studies I was working on at the time. I wanted to be an epi because I wanted I wanted to focus on health disparities in black communities, and so all my research was around that.

Speaker 2:

And I remember in all of these big epidemiological studies you always had to control for health as a confoundment variable, and I would realize in my own analysis that if I didn't control for education, sometimes the intervention that we were putting in wasn't as effective. And so for me I was like, ok, education feels like it's serving as its own intervention, even in these health outcomes and studies. So I decided to look more into education and just look through the data, and that's when I came across some of the most compelling statistics I've seen to this day. I saw two studies. One of them said that if you have a Black teacher and you're a Black student between kindergarten and third grade, you're 13% more likely to enroll in college. You had a second one in that same time span. That 13%, jumps all the way up to 32%. The second study said it looked at upper elementary, so third through fifth grade, and they talked specifically about black boys who are free and reduced lunch from kindergarten through eighth grade. And they said if they had a black teacher, 39% less likely to drop out of high school.

Speaker 2:

When I saw that 39% and that 32% early on, I was like, okay, this is life-changing work. And what I appreciated about it, too, was like the teachers in the study weren't from a certain university. They didn't have you know, 57 hours of professional development under this controlled environment. You know they were beneficial for their immutable qualities Like who they were, and the experiences they brought to the classroom were enough of a connecting point with their students that it had this huge long-term impact. And I appreciated that because I was like that's what I want, I want to have that type of impact, I want to have a claim to say that I'm making that life-changing, like trajectory-altering impact. And so I was like I want to be a classroom teacher. And so, once I decided to be a classroom teacher, next was decide where and at the time I wasn't really tied to much.

Speaker 2:

Um, I was open to a lot and I wanted really. My goal was to go where it was the most impactful. That was my number one goal, and Chicago was high on the list because I was home but it's cold and so I was at the time further north yeah right At the time I'm like it's 2017. So that's polar vortex a year.

Speaker 1:

Yep, I remember.

Speaker 2:

I'm like look, wherever I go, it cannot snow, and if it does snow, I need the whole town to shut down. That was my like number one qualifier for my decision at the time. Okay, and so of course I'm prioritizing Texas, atlanta, charlotte, my top places where I'm thinking. But at this time I am thorough and I wanted to do my due diligence. So I started just looking and looking at different statistics and different indicators to kind of give me an idea of where would this work be the most impactful. And I saw two articles and it feels like almost back to back.

Speaker 2:

The first was here are the best public education systems in the nation? Number one was Massachusetts, number two was Minnesota. Then it feels like the very next list I saw said biggest black white education achievement gaps. Number one is Wisconsin, number two was Minnesota. And when I saw the high rank on both those lists at the same time, I was fixed. I was convinced. I'm like this is where I need to go, just fixate on this idea of there's this like to me, minnesota represented this place that had this incredibly strong infrastructure for education, which is evident in the high ranking on that first list. Yeah, but at the same time it represented this place that had these incredibly strong and pervasive inequities that manifested explicitly in education, and I was like that's where I want to go, because the room for improvement is tremendous If you have enough people who are committed to like this change and this push.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that part. And I love how you show that juxtaposition of, yes, the highest you know education standards and you know as well as I do it is really hard to get a Minnesota teacher license and the biggest gap in disparities, and I like how you shared with your data background of seeing what can I do to help, you know, create the passion that I am to make a difference in children's lives and in the future, as well as what is going to have the most impact. Go to the place that has the highest disparity right. Join our diverse community of learners who want to do the best thing that they can in our inclusive places and spaces. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you are in the mix of all things multicultural educational practices and inclusive workplace strategies. And now back to our episode, and another thing that you pointed out too, that I thought was really profound, marcus, was, even though you're talking about your background, of having that representation that was already there. You had black educators, you had peers that went to the highest of the highest of achievements before they hit 30. And how our population in Minnesota is so diverse and so vast, but it doesn't reflect that. You know, and that's like a what? Eight hour, 10 hour car ride to get from Minneapolis to Chicago and you know it's just really, really alarming as to that.

Speaker 1:

I was really taken aback and excited to see that movement and getting more teachers of color. I taught in northern Minnesota for 18 years and I was the only black female teacher, only black teacher in the whole district for a number of years and to see how isolating it felt and to see that you are making that movement with Black male teachers so they're not alone in a silo, and that they have this community, are ready to bounce off ideas with and gather information of wow, this school building. All the kids see me as a role model and I'm not just representing the Black students that I teach. I'm there to show what's possible to white students that I'm also teaching. That's how you know, that's the impact. I think what you're doing is so profound. Can you also share with us, marcus? You know going through this program, how did it start? You know Black Men Teach. Let's go there. How did it begin?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so Black Men Teach was founded in 2018. And it was founded by my board of directors, and so at the time, I think there was this appetite to solve for a critical problem that was facing Minnesota, and so it was a lot of conversations in a lot of different spaces to understand what are the most critical challenges in the community. And, you know, education will come up in those conversations quick, and so I think once you start having more conversations focused on education, then now the question is what are solutions that have been attempted but have been unsuccessful? And a lot of things came up. There was a lot of efforts, you know. Fortunately, one of the good things about Minnesota is we've been on the forefront of attempting to diversify the teaching workforce for a long time. I've heard we've had legislation as early as like the earlier mid-90s, pushing us in that direction, and so we've had that, but we haven't been incredibly successful.

Speaker 2:

And I think one of the conversations that came up for why we've dichotomized teachers into white teachers and non-white teachers, white teachers, teachers of color, and the way you go about recruiting teachers of color isn't the same, even the way that if they want to recruit me and they want to recruit you. It wouldn't be the exact same. And so our organization thought okay, how do we bring some nuance and some specificity to the approach, where we get really laser focused on one specific group and not even just a racialized group, but just a race and gender focused group? And so this idea of focusing specifically on black men came up. And we took it a step further and decided let's do black men in elementary school specifically. Yes, because we know how important elementary is, but we also know how men aren't drawn to elementary at the same time. Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2:

So that was really the origin. It was there was this desire to fill a need and then the community just kind of elevated this idea that we need more diverse representation of our Black. Mentees kind of came from that.

Speaker 1:

I love that and I would have to say my mom, she was one of those pioneers in the early 90s. She got hired as a kindergarten teacher, then first grade for 35 years in Hiawatha Elementary in South Minneapolis. And talk about recruitment, I would go sit in her class when our school was on break. I grew up in Coon Rapids, minnesota. Okay, yeah yeah, that's a whole nother podcast, but you know. So that was my recruitment of wow. I saw how she taught you know, and that's what led me into the classroom as well. So I love how you even broke down for our audience.

Speaker 1:

You know that Minnesota has always been on the forefront of diversifying their workforce. And what I also have to say about Minnesota too, is we pivot. If something isn't working, we try to figure out what is and what we can do to educators. One, yes, the money. It would be nice if we had, you know, pay increase. That would be really helpful to get that pipeline of more diverse you know educators out there. But what have been the successes that you've seen in right now with the community that you are serving? You know the students and those black male teachers in elementary school. What has been a big success?

Speaker 2:

I mean there's so many ways to answer that question, I know. I mean we see successes all the time. One of my favorite things to do is to go to one of our partner schools. We have just multiple black men. So our model, our goal, is to have 20% of the teaching staff in the school that we support be black men.

Speaker 2:

So we have schools that have five black male elementary school teachers Going in those buildings. They feel fundamentally different versus when we began the partnership and they had one or none. And so going in and seeing a lesson in a fifth grade math class by a black male teacher, and you see all of these kids locked in. We went to school a few months ago, right before the school year let out, and I took my entire team and one of them came back with this reflection, this white woman. She was like to me, she was like math was never my thing and she said when I went into that class and I saw young white girls who looked like me, who were captivated by this teacher, she said it moved me emotionally. That same day, when we were doing a tour around that school, I went into a second grade class, talked about one of our guys.

Speaker 2:

Now, you know second graders right oh yeah, I walked in that class they were so locked in on his reading lesson they did not even notice me, I promise you, and I couldn't believe it, because sometimes I walk into the classes, often and you know little kids, they look up to the old leBron James, you know like they see me, they're waving, they're doing all types of stuff in Minnesota, yeah you know, but in his class they were so captivated by his reading lesson that they didn't even turn to acknowledge me the one kid who did that.

Speaker 2:

He turned, he looked and went right back to to what they were doing. And so I mean, every time we go into the building you get an opportunity, something different, something unique. Every time we go into the building you get an opportunity, something different, something unique. Every time we talk to our men, we hear a story about the impact that they have. My favorite way to hear about impact is to parents. We've done parent focus groups. We've had some video recordings. We've gotten emails.

Speaker 2:

In one of the videos there was a black man whose son was, I think, in fifth grade. He had one of our fifth grade teachers and he just straight up said he was like I wish Mr White was my teacher when I was a kid and to me that meant a lot. That meant so much. Yeah, there was a. There was a parent who said that her son wasn't black, he was indigenous, and she said that her son used to hate going to school but the first time he ever felt like his identity was appreciated in, like a curricular capacity, was when he had one of our teachers and she said the confidence it instilled in him left not just the building and went home, it left the elementary school, and as he went on to middle school school, she said he was tangibly different because of the interaction he had with that classroom teacher.

Speaker 2:

And so the best thing that we ever get are unsolicited parent emails of just talking about the impact that it's had on their students, um, and like thanking us for the opportunity, and sometimes we'll make uh connections with parents and schools that we partner with, just so they're aware. So a lot of parents are thinking about how do they have a representative environment, teachers who are representing their students in front of their classroom, and so we'll share, and then they'll always thank us too for that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's great. And you know, I feel like when you're doing a movement such as this, you are also disrupting those biases of what a Black man should look like, be like, sound like, feel like. And I think that also, too, is very revolutionary because, you know, the demographics have changed so much in Minnesota, and to see that representation in giving a lesson, you know, like you said in second grade, and just keeping those students engaged, but also the nuances of the students just feeling a little taller to say wow, those file folders of the biases that I hear at home are a lot different than the teacher that's teaching me this reading lesson in front of me, you know, and it's also disrupting them to relearn what is, what is the existence of us, and I think that is also very, very compelling. Hey, educators, if you are looking for more cultural, responsive lesson plans, look no further.

Speaker 1:

I have over 70 kindergarten through 12th grade, common Core standards, literacy and social studies lesson plans just for you. These digital downloads with companion titles will help you be more culturally proficient and compliant with your standards. Follow the link below so you can purchase your lesson plan today. Another question I have for you too, marcus, is you talked about parent experiences and especially with your partner schools. Have there been even experiences that the teachers had shared with you, that are in your organization, that have said, wow, what transformation did they have to going into these buildings?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a great question.

Speaker 2:

I'm trying to think a story that our teacher had.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Well, I think the closest thing I can think, the first thing I can think of is we'll have teachers who are walking into a building where we have multiple black men already and they'll often talk about how much they find themselves gravitating to those more senior Black teachers when something's going on.

Speaker 2:

Or like even one of our schools the same school where we have five Black men every morning they all meet up in one of the fifth grade teacher's classroom and it's like that's how they start their day.

Speaker 2:

It's almost like this quick Black men teach, huddle and like pour into each other and then they go out and they do their thing and sometimes at the end of the day they connect too, and so I think having those opportunities to have that just like ingrained fellowship component in the school day, it makes the work environment a lot better. One of the goals of the work that we're doing long term is really to brand this profession as one of the most attractive for Black men, specifically just because of how compelling the supports are that we offer. Most attractive for Black men, specifically just because of how compelling the supports are that we offer, Like there's not a lot of work environments where you can have that collegial support embedded into your workday and we're trying to make that like really one of the things that attracts men from even other professions to think about coming to the classroom.

Speaker 1:

I love that and you know again that fellowship, the camaraderie, that kind of motivation like, come on, man, we got this, we got it. Oh, you know it's testing week or you know you always have to find, you know that group of people that keep you going. And that's what I like about your philosophy with this organization, you not only recruit, you prepare and you retain your staff in these. You know partner schools and I'm going to have, you know, our audience. You know, learn more and we'll have the information of how you know their school or their district can partner with Black Men Teach. You know in the show notes so they can contact you. You know I know a couple of school districts further north. I would love to connect you with Marcus up here as well. And another thing before we go, because I can talk to you about. You know this all day, but what do you want educators to know when it comes to having Black men teachers in their schools?

Speaker 2:

That's a great question and you're saying specifically for educators who have, like colleagues who are black men?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, and let's say they're in a predominantly, let's say, a new partner school. You know there's going to be some hesitation, you know, and their own biases coming up, like, okay, they're having him come as a new staff member, what do I do? How do I make that person feel comfortable around me? Yeah, what do you have any tips for them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, got it, I think first. I mean it's another colleague at the end of the day and I think there's some unlearning a lot of people have to do around Black men's role in education. First, I think we're not disciplinarians, right. We're not there to take the problem children or only to deal with the black students, because there's benefit that black teachers have on all children black, white, brown, whatever.

Speaker 1:

And we're over that. Oh, you're so good at your classroom management, you know. Yeah, it's like I'm here to teach. Keep it up. Yeah, keep going.

Speaker 2:

One of our veteran teachers. He's been teaching for about 16 years. Okay, he was at our teaching fellow orientation this like two weeks ago, and he said I've never been complimented on my instruction, only on my relationships and so one of the things I would challenge people to do is to think about Black men, or Black teachers in general, and recognize the pedagogical genius that they bring, and not just think that it's like oh, because they're black students look at them this way, which allows them to produce the results that they do no we're good at what we do as well.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and him saying that to me, I mean it put a lot like that, put so much more words than I ever could. Um, because he's a great educator, an absolutely great educator, and people will try to undermine the results. They try to undermine what you do by calling you just only by only saying you're good with relationships.

Speaker 1:

And it's more than that Right.

Speaker 2:

Relationships are part of the work, but they also are strategic. Yes, there's intention behind building a relationship. We're not just coming in to connect with students. We're actually here because we know that one of the easiest surrogates to intrinsic motivation is by producing joy in the classroom capacity. And in order to do that, you got to have relationships with kids, you got to understand them. Not all kids will just inherently connect with you, so you have to really be a psychologist of relationships.

Speaker 1:

You're a counselor. Yeah, you're a negotiator, you're a diplomat, you're all these hats you know in the classroom, you know you are helping them problem solve and you're right, it takes some time for students to build that trust with you as well. But I also love how you said we're your colleague. We went through the same hoops and schooling and pedagogies and all of that. We learned all of those same methods as you have. So see us as that, as your colleague in the same practice, in understanding that we also have that calling to inspire and to educate. Oh, this is just awesome, marcus. Thank you so much. And how can we find you and learn more about your work online and outside?

Speaker 2:

yeah, easy blackmenteachorg. On Instagram we're blackmenteachtc and LinkedIn blackmenteach so easy to find. We hiding in plain sight. So we'd love to connect with anyone in your audience if they want to learn more. We'd love to talk to them in your audience If they want to learn more. We'd love to talk to them. Set up some time. They have young Black men that they think might be interested in teaching or have the skill set to be a great teacher. We'd love to have that conversation with them as well. They want to help with some funding or some connections. Please, please do. We're trying to scale this up and have some real impact in the community, because our kids need it.

Speaker 1:

They need it. Oh, marcus, thank you so very much for your candor and sharing your you know your insights of getting more Black male teachers in the classroom. This is just a charge. I am so proud that you're doing it and I just can't wait to share with everybody out there listening and watching of your amazing, impactful work and research. And yes, I will have all of Marcus Flynn's contact information in the show notes. I will see you all here again same time next week. Bye-bye.