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Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds
Welcome to the Cultural Curriculum Chat Podcast—an inclusive space for educators, DEI practitioners, and all individuals eager to foster diversity and understanding! If you're seeking a vibrant, authentic podcast to guide you in implementing Multicultural Education, look no further. Are you yearning for inspiration to cultivate a truly inclusive classroom community? Join us on a journey filled with insightful resources, practical tips, and a touch of humor, all led by the knowledgeable educator, Jebeh Edmunds.
Our podcast is designed to uplift and empower you, offering a blend of expertise and laughter to spark creativity and engagement in your educational endeavors. Tune in to discover a wealth of valuable insights and strategies that will ignite your passion for inclusive teaching practices and multicultural learning.
Embark on this enriching experience with us, and together we'll champion diversity, inspire change, and create welcoming spaces for all. Subscribe now to stay connected, join the conversation, and access more empowering content. Let's make a difference, one episode at a time! Thank you for being a part of our mission.
Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds
Season 6 Episode #12: My Conversation with DEI Pro Finder Juan Tavera
I'm in the guest chair on The Inclusive Leader Spotlight Podcast with host Juan Taveras. The episode #38 Building Cultural Competence: Small Steps Toward Lasting DEI Change
Our discussion shines a light on the success stories that have emerged from embracing DEI initiatives. From redesigning leadership programs to crafting inclusive lesson plans, these examples underscore the importance of genuine connections and organizational commitment. We also invite you to engage with us—whether by suggesting guests, sharing your thoughts, or spreading our message via social media. Together, let's continue to demystify DEI and build inclusive communities that thrive on diversity and mutual respect. Your feedback and support are crucial, and we can't wait to bring more insightful episodes your way.
Learn more about Juan Tavares on LinkedIn@ Juan Taveras MBA, SPHR
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Welcome to the Inclusive Leader Spotlight, a podcast that showcases leaders who are making a positive impact in the workplace by leveraging diversity, equity and inclusion. I am your host, juan Taveras, founder and CEO of DEI Profinder. Our business is dedicated to fostering connections between business leaders and right fit DEI professionals, to fostering connections between business leaders and right fit DEI professionals. We are on a mission to demystify diversity, equity and inclusion, and we're doing it one conversation at a time. We believe that DEI can create positive and engaging workplaces, boost productivity and drive innovation. Join us as we explore the power of DEI and its potential to transform the workplace and society at large.
Speaker 1:Welcome to another episode of the Inclusive Leader Spotlight. Today, we are joined by Jebe Edmonds, ceo and founder of Jebe Cultural Consulting, a consulting firm that educates the public through multicultural resources to promote positive change. Jebe has over two decades of experience as an educator and speaker, and she loves sharing her passion for multicultural education and inclusivity. She is also the host of Cultural Curriculum Chat, a podcast that helps educators incorporate multicultural education into their lessons and create more inclusive classroom communities. How beautiful is that. Such an honor to have you on our show. Welcome, jebe.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Juan. Thanks for having me on your show today.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a pleasure and I love your energy, so I know this is going to be a fun conversation. We were just talking, before we hit the record button, of the importance of these types of conversations, especially in today's sort of political and societal space that we're in. How do we get better at working with, with difference and through difference? Working with difference and through difference, right? So we're going to dive into that and much more, and we're eager to learn more about what you do, which is the very first question. So who are you and what do you?
Speaker 2:do. Oh, thank you, juan. Yes, I'm Jeva Edmonds, founder and CEO of Jeva Cultural Consulting. My life's work has been to educate and inspire corporations, organizations, community members about promoting positive change through inclusive, equitable strategies. I've been an education major teacher.
Speaker 2:I had a classroom for 18 years before I went into my private practice of entrepreneurship, into my private practice of entrepreneurship and so witnessing that, you know, in the classroom, as a student, I was born in Liberia, came and emigrated with my parents and we moved to suburban Minnesota. So I've always been observant of how people treated me, my family, and the stereotypes people got when they found out that we were African immigrants and so trying to disrupt and dispel all of those stereotypes about people in the African diaspora. Then also being a student with a different name and you know, having teachers muffle and wonder how to say it and say it wrong or what's wrong and you know. So I felt like I've been a cultural consultant I always joke about this since grade school and yeah, and as an adult, you know, with this business, you know I realize I'm impacting my students every year and they're coming home and having those courageous conversations with their parents saying, hey, mrs Edmonds, she grew up like this sort of like us and our grandmothers made soup, like our grandma does, you know, and I felt like in my heart, juan, that I needed to have this impact much more wider than my classroom, of students every year and, like you said before, a lot of our people in our society, when we talk about DEI, they're stuck, not stuck in how to necessarily get moving, they're stuck with the feeling of, if I do, this is my business, or is my school setting going to be deemed, as you know, the woke or, oh, my goodness, and we're gonna, you know, and they're afraid of their reputation being, you know, compromised.
Speaker 2:But for me, as a practitioner in this practice, I'm telling my clients you are on the right side of history, you are having those courageous conversations and, trust me, there are people that look like me, that don't look like me, want to, how you say it, we want to patronize your business. We want to be in your school setting because you're going to be looking out for my child. You're going to be looking out for me as a client or an individual, because you also align with seeing me as my whole self in this scope, and so I feel like a lot of us in this DEI, you know, practitioner space that I like working, you know, and speaking today is to showcase and share. There's nothing scary about having those uncomfortable conversations and it's about time, because I always say, we've been in that uncomfortable party for centuries and now you're showing up. It's like, well, the light's not on yet to go home, so let's have that conversation now.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Oh, you said so many things that resonated with me. So, first of all, thank you for sharing even about your personal life and your early experiences with difference, right, because oftentimes that's what draws us to this work because we've we've lived it and we sort of understand it gives us this different perspective on on the world, which is the power of I love what you said of multi-educating yourself and being open and aware of all the different cultures that exist, but also identities and ways of thinking, etc. So that's all beautiful and I am so glad also that you mentioned this correlation right with DEI being associated with woke, wokeism or whatever it's called, when, at the end of the day, right from my perspective, it's about people getting along right and people being able to work better together towards a shared mission, right, which is whether you're if you're in a classroom, then there's a shared mission there that everyone is participating in.
Speaker 1:If you're in the workforce, same thing. If you're a're in a classroom, then there's a shared mission there that everyone is participating in. If you're in the workforce, same thing. If you're a member of a community, same deal right. So I love it. So let's get into this, because I'm always eager to learn and I know my audience loves to hear strategies for how they can be better at this. Right, and you mentioned working with clients and helping them get comfortable with being uncomfortable, right? So what does some of that work look like?
Speaker 2:What does some of that work look like? I feel like the biggest part is looking internally and I work on a diagnostic. I really love Harvard's Project Implicit for the implicit bias work. So I have my clients and trainees take that first and foremost to look inward and just to, of course, reiterate that we all have biases that we carry and a lot of us don't want to admit it. You know, and I have some lived experience stories too that I share. For example, there was a female mail carrier that would come in and deliver our mail in our neighborhood and I always tell my clients and trainees that we need to check and correct those implicit biases, because in my bias I remember watching Mr Rogers' Neighborhood and see Mr McFeely, you know, deliver the mail, and even to this day I have to stop and pause.
Speaker 2:And so to show that it's not necessarily always racial biases but it's gender roles, it's all of these different, you know, identities that so many of us have not necessarily well, I don't want to say neglected, but we haven't amplified and acknowledged that they exist, because they have always existed, and so that's a big thing I work with my clients on is first the internal work and then the second part. Once we get to that internal dialogue of what we have known, then we can start opening that dialogue of that uncomfortable conversation. And I have all these scenario cards that I created that we look and discuss. So that way, when you are a part of that marginalized community because we've all been in those work functions where we have to sit in and the facilitator comes in and everybody I call it rubbernecking they rubberneck and look at you and go what do you think, jeb? And I'm like can I just learn with the rest of y'all? You know why do I have to put myself out there? And so when I am now the facilitator at these meetings, I've been really cognizant of having scenario cards that they can discuss, with no names on it, but just a scenario situation to get that conversation going.
Speaker 2:And I feel that a lot of the people from those different identities come to me after those trainings and say thank you, you said it, you helped me just be a part of the facilitation process, versus, you know, when I leave those doors and they have to deal with, you know, their colleagues, it's not, oh, thank you for being so vulnerable. But now we're going to go back to what we've always gone through. You know it. Just it really, you know, was something for me. Again, like I said, I am such a big observer and I just knew how I felt in those meetings. So when we are coming into those spaces as DEI practitioners we can always see our brother and just kind of slouch a little, try not to make eye contact don't look at me, because it is hard. We can come in and do that facilitation work, but you know, in order to do that and have that open dialogue of uncomfortableness, you have to start somewhere. But we also shouldn't sacrifice the people that are there, and that's been my biggest philosophy in this work 100%.
Speaker 1:So many good points, okay. So I want to double click for our listeners, because I heard some good things here. So, first, the self work, right. So the work starts with you. And this surprises people often, right, because it's so easy to think about DEI and everything related to DEI as something out there that is happening in my organization or in my community, as something out there that is happening in my organization or in my community. But really, no matter who you are, this is for everybody. It starts inside, and I want to quote a coach that I respect and admire very much.
Speaker 1:She said to me one time you can't do for others what you haven't done for yourself. Right. So how do you expect, especially as a leader, how do you expect anyone on your team to be able to have difficult conversations or lean into the difference between them and someone else, if you haven't done that work? First, right, if you aren't aware of your own biases and your own trauma or triggers or whatever. It may be right that that that you carry cause, we all carry it. And then, most importantly, or not most importantly, but but but.
Speaker 1:Then secondly, um, once you have, once you're armed with this information, uh, having those conversations. So so bridging or or extending a uh uh, a hand or a bridge, whatever it is making that connection with someone else and being vulnerable, cause that requires you mentioned it the vulnerability piece to share with someone else what you've learned about yourself, and then vice versa, right, so that's how we start these dialogues and then I this is a this is a good plug for you, because that's hard to do, so when you need help, it's always so good to get external support and train facilitators to do this, that do this work to help you get started with those dialogues. So that's so many great examples there, so thank you for sharing that. Yeah, this is so important. A question I ask often from my guests is because you know, the purpose of this podcast is to demystify diversity, equity and inclusion, one conversation at a time.
Speaker 2:So here we are. Is there a myth or a misunderstanding about DEI? That you encounter often in your work has been well, we just there's too much information. That's the biggest. The biggest roadblock is you know there's too much information. I'm overwhelmed, I don't, I'm just OK, you know. And another that's been the biggest one of you know it's too much so I'm not even going to go there, like you know. And when that's been the biggest one of you know it's too much so I'm not even going to go there, like you know.
Speaker 2:And when you get that too, that's something where I I have my counterpoint to it's the information that I have to help you with is already been vetted and best practice. And I do agree, yes, there's a lot of information, but there's a lot of information on finding recipes and you still look for recipes, right. So there's, you know, to me that's just another excuse of I don't want to do this, but you know, but there is, and so that's how I kind of have that counterpoint goal. Yeah, but I always look up for a recipe for dinner because there's so many recipes out there. So that's something where I feel a lot of businesses, you know small or large corporations, and even you know educational sectors as well, get into that heads mindset of. There's just so much, we don't have time.
Speaker 2:That's another big one, we're just too busy to, you know, infuse this into it, um, and another thing too I've heard um lately is oh, we're just checking the box and I always say it's a movement, not a moment you know and it takes time, you know, and so I, I feel, and and I I guess you can also agree with me too, juan that the folks that we, you know, train and do this work with the ones that really need that guidance and cultivation. They seek us out a lot more. They're not the ones that go oh, there's too much. They're the ones going I see that there's too much, and I'm looking to you to point me in the right direction, and so that's what I'm happy to help with. Yeah, To demystify that. Yeah, there's too much, but you're always going to find a recipe or what's the latest book that you want to read. That's a lot of information as well, so yeah, love that.
Speaker 1:Okay, let me sit with that for a moment, because I agree, I hear that it's. It's this feeling of overwhelm, like I also hear often. It's always something else. It's always something new, right, some something else that I have to learn or do and and, to your point, such is the case for most things in our life right, because of technology and the access to information that we now have.
Speaker 1:So the key, though, is and this actually points back to the self-work, right Is starting. It's not about doing it all today. It's about doing, taking that first step, right, and that could be that self-work. That could be picking up a book and starting to learn about this, that could be watching a documentary, like. There's so many different ways that we can start to engage with this work. And the other thing is that it takes time, right, because that's where this feeling of overwhelm comes. There's this urgency that is real and sometimes necessary, and this isn't going away, this isn't going anywhere. So we can, we can actually take a breath and, like, just take it easy and take it a step at a time, because that's better than just throwing up our hands and saying, oh, it's too much, I can't.
Speaker 2:And my favorite Ethiopian proverb. I love African proverbs, but this Ethiopian one always says hurry, hurry has no blessings, and so for me, that always has been in my work and all that I've done is this does take time. You can't just say, oh, we're starting, you know, first thing Monday morning, and and expect these big results and to celebrate those small milestones along the way I always give my clients to. No matter how big or small of a company I'm working with is, let's put our dream list of what we want to accomplish in this DEI space. It could be a lunch and learn. It could be, you know, hiring more people of diverse backgrounds. No matter what it is, I said, put it all on there.
Speaker 2:And I'm a teacher, so I'm like I get my butcher paper and we're scribbling our dream list and then I take tell them to take a step back and I want them to focus on the top two, just two, and see, let's have an end date of where we're gonna check in on those two initiatives, because I see, you know, in this work so many companies and community organizations, not-for-profit, for-profit they have their list and then they look at that list and then they don't do anything and then sometimes they'll call in a reactive way, going well, we have our list, jeb, but somebody is getting mad at us and it's, you know, number seven on the list, but we got 95 other initiatives and it's like, ok, slow down, pick only two, pick only two, and let's work with what we can do and then we can add slowly but surely.
Speaker 2:So that's just been my biggest thing too. Like you said, juan of you know there's so much to do, there's always something and it's like, of course, there's always going to be something, because in this space we're constantly evolving as well. You know, we're constantly learning with others and going, oh no, we can't say that or we can't have that in our practice anymore. And and be in and I feel like too oh no, we can't say that or we can't have that in our practice anymore and and be in, and I feel like too, with that new, we have to be able to prune that stuff away as well and let that part go, you know, because again, well, this is how it's always been, does not work, no-transcript, and so meet with education programs and to say that is an issue here, that we are not having a diverse, you know, educators to teach all of our kids so they can all see that it is possible.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, that is so powerful. Yeah, so I love how, as you were talking about this activity, to like, let's put all the dream board. I think what I also like about that is that it makes this possible. I don't want to use fun.
Speaker 1:It could be fun, but it's not always fun but, it gives you a vision, like a direction that you want to move towards as an organization. Cause that's the other piece of the overwhelm is when there's just so much but you and and you don't have the direction. So you, you don't know where to start or what to do. But but start with a dream list and then prioritize that list and then I love that you said, focus on one or two things. You can't do it all and you have to be really intentional, so that way you start to see that progress and it's going to build on itself and then it's sort of a snowball effect after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they also. I agree, and they also have to when they make that dream list. Everybody, a part of that company, has to be writing that list together. You know, I've been in situations in the workforce where it's the leadership and they give you the list and they give everybody else here's a list, here's what we're going to work on. And it's like wait now, how do I feel motivated to have any buy in, how do I feel motivated to have any buy-in if you're giving me this list and saying do it, do it now, versus here's a marker, you put down what it is and now we work together.
Speaker 2:I think that's also important too with DE&I work, because so many organizations have only those closed door leadership. You know retreats and nobody at the staff knows what's happening. And that's where secrecy and resentment start to come in, because, hey, we did this and this is what our company wants, and our mission, vision and values go along with this list. But the vision is also the whole company as a whole as well. So, yeah, yeah, that's another thing, too that companies should keep in mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. Yeah, this I had a guest on our show a few weeks ago and they call it the co-creation process, right? So this isn't because it impacts the whole organization and the people that make up your team, your team, your community, uh, are, are part of, are, are, you know, woven into that the threads, right? So they, they. It makes sense for everyone to then be involved. Um, it isn't. It sort of makes the work a little bit more challenging, right? Because then you have many more voices involved, and, but to your point. And you have many more voices involved, but to your point, and you have facilitators like yourself that can come in and help you process that right, help you refine those ideas into tangible initiatives that people can get behind and get excited about, and then you start to build again that momentum. So, great, great, call out. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. So another question for you here. I love talking about successes in this work and you mentioned earlier, you guide your clients to certain milestones. Can you share some examples of what those are?
Speaker 2:Yes, well, oh gosh. There's so many wonderful successes but my top two or three have been I was retained with our local chamber of commerce to implement and redesign their leadership cohort program, where they have professionals in the community. So we had a 10 month program that I created for them and I used their competencies and their mission, vision and values and gave it a more equitable lens. We had the most diverse program members ever in the 36 years it's been established and I had even more diverse voices in the community that were also chamber members to infuse in inside of the program. So we just wrapped up the graduation process and that was wonderful to see and look and audit a wonderful, successful program as it was and take it to the next level with the diversity, equity, inclusion lens infused in it so they can use that as a template and continue the process in their program for years to come. That was one great success. So proud of myself to do that. To do that. Another one was in the HR policy.
Speaker 2:I talked about another lived experience where my father's untimely passing in Liberia, where we were from.
Speaker 2:I couldn't leave my place of work because I only had four days of bereavement leave and to leave internationally and come back and teach the next four days was impossible. So I missed his funeral in person and telling that story to one of my organizations that I spoke about. They went in and revamped their own bereavement policy because they were so moved to think about our employees also are international people too, and what can we do to keep the business and organization moving in order to take care of our employees at their time of bereavement. So that was another big milestone milestone as well. Also, creating lesson plans for summer school programs with books that I have, you know, mentioned on my YouTube and my podcast, that align without causing harm, that are also standards based for the states that they belong to, was another big plus. And so, yeah, lots of good things from education to organizationally. It can be done, and I just I love seeing my clients doing this work and knowing that I had a hand in guiding them into finding new ways of operating.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, beautiful, such great examples, and I appreciate how varied they are. To your point it's in HR policy, in education, in your local chamber of commerce. So yeah, just beautiful examples. And then what you just said there about guiding your clients while they do this work. Right, because this is another going back to the myths from earlier. They often organizations think that folks like us are going to go into the organization and just wave our magic wand and they have to do the work and they have to be committed to those desired outcomes and want to see it through. So powerful.
Speaker 1:I just want to double click on that policy, the HR policy one, because those are the types of changes that are so easy to make and we often and I've done this myself as an HR leader we just we get so used to the handbook being the handbook that we don't question it. We don't. We don't question why is it only three days of bereavement leave, like, who came up with that? Or why is it only if it's a close relative? Then what if I lose my best friend, like I want to, you know. So all of these questions that it's so important to for us to explore to ensure that we're meeting the needs of the people in our organization. So such a good example and I have to say I'm so sorry that you had to miss your father's that's very sad, thank you, thank you, thank you appreciate that so, jeb, what a what an amazing conversation.
Speaker 2:I wish I could talk to you all day me too, juan, I love when we can talk shop with other DEI practitioners and you know those, I do. Sometimes it can feel kind of siloed, you know, and to know that someone is doing the same work, you know, is just so exciting. And reaffirming that you know you're not in this alone, you know a lot of people feel like, oh, you're just, you know, doing your own thing, I said, but there's so many people in this space that it is it's amazing to see, and I'm honored to be working alongside of you in this capacity.
Speaker 1:Oh, same here, Same here. I'm just thrilled to have now a new connection here and to continue to support you in your work. So two things as we wrap up this episode, I would love if you could leave our listeners with a parting word of wisdom or some final advice, and then, as you know, to make sure that we are supporting you. If anyone that's listening is interested in working with you or engaging with you in some way, how should they do that?
Speaker 2:So Awesome, well parting words of wisdom. You don't have to overthink to be inclusive, and so something as simple as connecting with your neighbor or, you know, just being open to the possibilities of being, you know, inclusive with others. I think that is so important. You don't have to overthink it just be. And how you can find me. If you'd like to work with me for some one-on-one services or more info, you can find it all on my website at jebaedminscom, and I have a podcast, a cultural curriculum chat, where you can listen to it. Anywhere you want, I'm going to be finding you, so you can come on my show as well. And, yes, definitely on my show as well. And, yes, definitely. And you can also find more of my resources on my YouTube channel, mrs Edmonds Cultural Corner, where I review books, talk with authors, bipoc authors and also DE&I strategies for the workplace as well.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome. Okay, so I'll make sure to have links to your website, your podcast and your YouTube channel in the show notes so folks can quickly and easily find you and connect with you. And then, yes, we'd love to be a guest on your show and continue this wonderful conversation. So, jebet, thank you so much for being on our show today and I look forward to having you again on as a guest again soon.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, juan Until next time.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Inclusive Leader Spotlight. We hope that you're walking away with a better understanding of DEI and how you can bring it to life in your own work. If you are an inclusive senior level business leader who would like to be on this program, please visit deiprofindercom and click on the podcast tab to apply to be a guest. Also, if you know someone that would be a great guest, please send them to our website. If you enjoyed today's episode, would you consider sharing it on social media? You can find us by searching DEI Profinder on LinkedIn, facebook, instagram and X. Include the hashtag Inclusive Leader Spotlight and we'll make sure to show you some love.
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