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Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds
Welcome to the Cultural Curriculum Chat Podcast—an inclusive space for educators, DEI practitioners, and all individuals eager to foster diversity and understanding! If you're seeking a vibrant, authentic podcast to guide you in implementing Multicultural Education, look no further. Are you yearning for inspiration to cultivate a truly inclusive classroom community? Join us on a journey filled with insightful resources, practical tips, and a touch of humor, all led by the knowledgeable educator, Jebeh Edmunds.
Our podcast is designed to uplift and empower you, offering a blend of expertise and laughter to spark creativity and engagement in your educational endeavors. Tune in to discover a wealth of valuable insights and strategies that will ignite your passion for inclusive teaching practices and multicultural learning.
Embark on this enriching experience with us, and together we'll champion diversity, inspire change, and create welcoming spaces for all. Subscribe now to stay connected, join the conversation, and access more empowering content. Let's make a difference, one episode at a time! Thank you for being a part of our mission.
Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds
Season 7 Episode #14 Meeting Students Where They Are: Dr. Jessica Werner's Inclusion Revolution
What happens when a former classroom teacher transforms her passion for inclusive education into a global consultancy? Dr. Jessica Werner, founder of North Shore Learning, takes us on a journey through the evolving landscape of educational inclusion in this eye-opening conversation.
Growing up in 1980s Central California, Werner witnessed her physician father attending night classes to learn Spanish so he could better serve his patients—an early model of meeting others where they are. This philosophy now forms the cornerstone of her international education consultancy, where relationship-building precedes any intervention.
The pandemic has fundamentally altered education, creating what Werner describes as a "pause" in students' academic and social development. "Kids are behind. Classroom management is, in a lot of ways, out of control—and it's not because students are bad kids, because they've lived through a lot." This new reality demands innovative approaches that address interconnected challenges of mental health, behavior, and learning deficits.
Werner's team begins each school engagement by listening intently to teachers and administrators about their specific challenges. This assessment-first methodology stands in stark contrast to "one-and-done" professional development models. "When it's your life and you're in it all the time, sometimes it's hard to see your blind spots," she explains, highlighting why external perspective can be invaluable.
For parents navigating support for struggling learners, Werner offers both professional guidance and personal empathy. "If you have that feeling as a parent, don't ignore it," she advises, suggesting parents begin teacher conversations by asking: "What are the joys you have working with my child and what's challenging?"
Ready to transform your approach to inclusive education? Connect with Dr. Werner's team at northshorelearning.org and discover how relationship-centered, context-specific strategies can revitalize learning environments for students and educators alike.
Learn More About Dr. Jessica Werner of Northshore Learning Here: https://www.northshorelearning.org/
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All right, welcome back to the Cultural Curriculum Chat Podcast. I'm your host, jeba Edmond. I am so excited we have a stellar guest in the guest chair today, dr Jessica Werner. And before I introduce Jess, I want you to know if you are new to the podcast and the YouTube channel, mrs Edmond's Culture Corner. Welcome, I'm your host, jeba, and I share all things multicultural educational learning, inclusive work practices, as well as DE&I strategies. And, without further ado, welcome Dr Jess Werner. She is the founder and CEO of North Shore Learning and I cannot wait to get into this conversation. She's going to give us wonderful tools and strategies for our educators and administrators, as well as how to get in contact with her, because, darlings, she is an international brand and you need her and her awesome team in your school districts and your schools. Like yesterday, like yeah, I can't wait to get into it. So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so excited to have you Now listeners and viewers. I met Jess. I want to say what was it like two or three years ago, in a snow, storm, christmas Eve, we met at a coffee shop and just kind of like our worlds collided for like an amazing time. It was like, girl, where have you been all my life? And, jess, how did you feel about that day when we met the first time? Before we get into your origin story, yeah, I was just thinking about that this morning.
Speaker 2:First of all, it doesn't feel like two years ago. It feels like we've known each other for like 20. Yeah, no, we just connected right away. It was wonderful. And you know how it is you don't meet that many people in life who you don't have to try hard with, you just kind of understand each other. You could talk or not talk, and yeah, that's how it's always been. So I'm really grateful to know you and be a part of your life.
Speaker 1:I'm grateful to know you too, my dear, and I think what really bonded us was the love of infusing inclusivity of the kids in our classrooms. In our past life of just trying to reach that kid, you know, trying to make sure they have all their accommodations that they need, and, of course, the frustration of the resources that weren't there. And you know that I think what, in your love of traveling and being in spaces and classrooms that are international, that you could help our American educators learn of what's going on across the world. And when I met you that day, christmas Eve, at the coffee shop, like a snowstorm in northern Minnesota, I'm like, yeah, this woman needs to be in my life and vice versa, because we had so many mutual connections of our drive to, you know, create those safe, welcoming spaces. So, listeners, I can't wait for you to learn more about Jess's story. So let's get into it. Jess, how did you grow up and how did you perceive inclusive education to come into your own company?
Speaker 2:I've spent a lot of time reflecting on this question since you sent it to me because when I think back to my own childhood, growing up, the word inclusion is like it was not a part of education back then. It wasn't at any school I went to. I think back and I'm like, what did that look like at my private elementary or my public middle and high school? And I just I can't. I can't see what it was, because it was really like whole group learning all the time. We will teach one way for all the kids. If you don't get it, it's your fault, you fail. You know, that was my introduction to education, which is really similar for everybody probably who grew up in the 80s and 90s. And then even when I started teaching, that was still kind of the philosophy, like the word differentiation loaded around there, but there wasn't really any accountability for it. And again it was kind of like if you do well, it's because you're trying hard and if you have problems it's your fault. And it wasn't until the last couple of years I was teaching that really we started to see an emergence of just neurodiversity in our students and it wasn't until those last couple of years that I saw and it wasn't even everybody teachers willing to try and engage with it and trying to do things differently to help those students succeed in their classes too. So I don't know how my own upbringing, but I was thinking about this too. So I grew up in central California and it's the part of California a lot of people don't know exists. It is a big farming community, has a lot of migrant workers. We have this very transient population. You know. There are schools where the teachers, the student body, will rotate every couple of months because their families will move on and go farm in a different part of California. And so what I did notice growing up was the multicultural aspect of how it was and wasn't included in schools, and the language of Spanish too. You know, I think one of my, one of my memories and I think this really shaped how I began to look at inclusion was, you know, we were a community that there was a lot of Spanish speakers. English, you know, was the language everybody operated in, but if you went to a restaurant, a store or even the bank, you may have been approached in Spanish. That was just how it was. I was really surprised when I moved out of Central California and I realized not everybody had Spanish as a part of their lives.
Speaker 2:But as I think about inclusion, I think about my dad. So my dad was an emergency room doctor in Central California. He's a white guy from the Midwest, but what he started seeing in his practice over the years is more and more people again who only spoke Spanish. And so what was my dad's solution? It was to learn Spanish, and my dad would go to night classes at the community college. His teacher at community college was my high school teacher.
Speaker 2:Like I think how cool and how humbling for this doctor to be sitting in night classes to learn Spanish. But that was his approach. He was like this is the need of the community and this is this is what I'm going to do, right, and I think it probably didn't seem like much to him. It was probably like, yeah, this is how we work. But I think it really instilled a lesson early on that Just how do we adapt to meet other people's needs? How do we? How do we not sit there saying, well, you should do this and then I'll, and then I'll meet you where you're at? No, we, we look to the needs in front of us and then I'll meet you where you're at. No, we look to the needs in front of us. So yeah, it's funny that that memory came back and I thought.
Speaker 1:Well, my dad was a really early example in my life of inclusion. Yes, that's amazing, jess, to step out of his comfort zone, learn something new and be very consistent and persistent with learning a second language to accommodate and help. You know, meeting his patients right there instead of going, oh, I need an interpreter, or you know what I'm just going to. Especially when people think, oh, I just speak louder than they'll understand my language. It's like what kind of backwards kind of thinking is that? It's like you know they're hurting their ear. Like what? Even though you're speaking and your tone is louder doesn't mean I can understand what you're saying. So that's really huge. Thank you, thank you Now with your organization, north Shore Learning. I love how, even on your website, it shares how you are really big in inclusion.
Speaker 1:Support Classroom management doesn't mean even if you're a first year teacher or a seasoned teacher. We all need some help. We've all been there like, okay, how can I brush up on my skills? Been there like, okay, how can I brush up on my skills? Instructional excellence, helping and supporting those teachers and administrators I love you've got educator wellness.
Speaker 1:Especially in our times right now, a lot of us teachers across this country are burnt out. And executive coaching for our school administration A lot of our school admin. They're trying to keep their buildings going, but who's watching them, who's helping them in their wellness out? So I just love that focus of the several different facets that you share and that you really specialize in, because we've all been there just as educators sitting in those professional developments and it's one and done. And I love how it's your multifaceted approach of we're helping the instructors, we're also helping our admin and also looking into our own educator mental health and that also, in turn, helps our whole student. So can you share what that looks like in action, especially helping your teachers when you're going to those buildings and administrators? Just give us a little our whole student. So can you share what that looks like in action, especially, you know, helping your teachers when you're going to those buildings and administrators? Just give us a little taste of how that looks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been really fun to develop this approach and make it as holistic as possible because, just you know, gemma, like when we were teachers, I don't even think I had support outside of my classroom. You know, I could go find it, I could go knock on a door and hope somebody had time to talk. My principal was always busy running a school, which is its own job. You know that's a lot of work build and grow. We're always trying to figure out what do people actually need to be successful? Because we want our teachers to be and feel good, because it directly translates into how their students feel and even achieve, which is, you know, we should want our teachers to feel good regardless, because they're doing this super important job right, they're educating our future. But we also know that that makes an impact on student learning anyway, and so it just kind of depends. This wasn't a great answer, but it depends on the school, because we look at everything so holistically, we always just try to learn about the school and the teachers and the school before we make any recommendations. Like what are the challenges for you? That's one of the first things I ask is what's challenging and what's going really well? And that's exciting too, because then we kind of see where they're already feeling competent, but we get more information about things that could support them even further to address the challenges, and so we really kind of just try and ask, and sometimes people don't know. They're like I don't know, just come watch my class, let's see how it goes. And it's one of those things where when it's your life and you're in it all the time, sometimes it's hard to see your blind spots. So that's why it's nice to have another person in there. And so we've been doing that with teachers for about five years, and then we'll offer either individual work with teachers on something like classroom management Oftentimes it turns out most of the teachers in the building have the same feeling and then we can do something strategic for the whole school.
Speaker 2:That is our data collection. But it's also just how we work, because we're about relationships. Like I really think, like you said the one and done training, we know they don't work well and we also know that we learn and grow from people we trust. And so unless you sit down with people and try to hear their story and see what they're working with and know what it's like, it's hard to gain trust because they're like who are you Another person, consultant, consultant even in education, how it's like a bad people have a bad connotation of it, which is sad because but they've had bad experiences, yes, and so our best feedback is people who are like oh, you aren't like the other consultants.
Speaker 1:I love that. And you're the consultants that get it. You know educational consultants a lot of us have been in the classroom, been there, we speak the language, we know. We know the times a year when you're really feeling stretched really thin. And that's what I love about your approach, Jess, because you get it. You've been a certified teacher.
Speaker 1:You've been, you know, on the front lines teaching students, seeing and again, understanding frustrations teachers may have going. Hey, I've been shouting from the rooftops, I still haven't gotten support, you know. So we get the trepidation of oh, here we go again. Now this new person is going to come in that is an expert in their field, you know, and exact and, like you said before getting that data, the students actually really are receptive to that, you know. They really are like OK, yeah, definitely, and evidence that your teacher is also a lifelong learner. They're not just doing the same things, and I know you're not a one woman show just doing the same things, and I know you're not a one-woman show. You have a dynamic team with you of other certified educators and consultants and I really love that. How do you facilitate that with your dynamic team? Because you're not just a Midwest company. You are nationwide, internationally known. So yeah, give us a little taste of you and your dynamic team and how you operate for our listeners and viewers.
Speaker 2:Sure Well, it started out, it was just me, it's just me going wherever people were asking.
Speaker 2:It was, you know, around Minnesota. It was different parts of the US and then it started to be international and it was always me. It was different parts of the US and then it started to be international and it was always me. And so I am very grateful for my team because I was getting stretched pretty thin. I loved the work, but I also have a family and the team evolved to really I don't even know.
Speaker 2:I feel like people just the right people were placed in my orbit at the right times.
Speaker 2:A lot of them introductions from other people.
Speaker 2:We have three people on the team now who I once coached, so two people I coached at a school in Germany who I thought these people are incredible and I keep it in back of my mind because you never know when a certain skill set will come in handy and then boom, it's there and I know who to ask.
Speaker 2:So they're amazing. I learn from people on my team every day and we have people a lot of people are still in school, they're teaching or they're an administrator, so they're still on the front lines, living it every single day, and they help us too when we're getting a little too philosophical or theoretical. They're like no, no, no, no, no. This is what it looks like an implementation. So, yeah, I think I try, I'm learning how to, I'm learning how to own a company with many people and I'm trying to find ways that people can learn and grow and share things together, um, together, so that we're always all learning, and that's ultimately. I'm looking for people who are humble, who are, who are, who don't know everything and you know, none of us do, but not all of us admit it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And who are willing to to step into something new and maybe be uncomfortable. You know and and work hard to to figure out how to help the the school in front of them. So I've been. I'm just so lucky and you know people. Everywhere we go now we hear from people who are asking you know, do you have openings? And sadly this is the state of education Teachers, probably people you know Java people.
Speaker 2:I know people listeners know are looking for new jobs. They are asking us, they're asking in other industries, they are looking to move and it's really frightening because you start counting and you think, well, who's left? Our main goal here is to keep good people in schools for as long as they can be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, they're having an environment where they feel like they can teach with the resources and the help that they deserve to have. You know, and you're right, I love your secret sauce of having staff that are also implementing the philosophies, the protocols that you have, you know, created for your company, and I love how they also check each other as well as a team. I love that humbleness that you have. Like it's going to be uncomfortable, there's going to be things we need to stretch and there's going to be things that are like, yeah, this approach isn't working with this particular school environment. How can we pivot? How can we change? And I love that, because a lot of us too, especially entrepreneur to entrepreneur, we all know, when you've been away from a certain sector for a while, you tend to go, oh well, it should be like this.
Speaker 2:And it's not Right and you need some friends to bring you back to center going.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that approach does not work, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and education is just so dynamic, I mean it changes so much within a year.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Five years ago, 10 years ago, we can't be thinking the same way.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you're right, oh yeah, and that goes to my next question, because we know five years ago with that pandemic that hit, it left a huge mark on student learning, lots of deficits that we're still researching that came out of the pandemic. How has North Shore Learning adjusted to help those teachers meet the students where they are and how that can help them move forward? Yeah, how does that help them?
Speaker 2:And how that can help them move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how does that help them? The pandemic?
Speaker 2:was horrible for everybody. It was horrible for students and for kids. It was like somebody paused their life and paused their education. They paused, you know, getting outside and socializing, and we've been um this ripple effect for the past couple of years and and we work in schools and countries that were not open for two years. So students who were online for two years, so this is their second year back in school, and we were just seeing a lot, of a lot of social anxiety, a lot of anxiety in general people who forgot to be around, people Like what is socially appropriate, what isn't Learning oh my gosh, the deficit is huge.
Speaker 2:Kids are behind Classroom management. It's, in a lot of ways, out of control, and it's not because the students are bad kids, because they've lived through a lot and a lot of them already had stuff going on and this just exacerbated it. So I would say I think the main way is we again we try and be holistic, like what are, what are the big needs here, but that the asks we're getting most often are really to support teachers with student behaviors and with student mental health, and this is where it all kind of converges under the umbrella of inclusion, because all these pieces. You know, we might have thought about them as separate from each other 10 years ago, but they are not anymore and they're all impacting learning and they're even impacting who comes to school. I mean, the rate of absenteeism I'm hearing about, or school refusal, is very high and absenteeism for teachers as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, yes, we're seeing that too.
Speaker 2:It's this high stress, high anxiety that we feel and the learning deficit we're trying to crawl out of. And so, yeah, like I said, right now it really A lot of our work is around classroom management, student behaviors, working with neurodivergent learners, but also just how do we teach today? Because we can't teach today.
Speaker 1:Like the way.
Speaker 2:I said that I was taught in the 90s. If you have students sitting in desks staring at you for more than two minutes, I can't guarantee anything. So yeah, it's hard, change is hard. It's a change we've been needing to make for a while, but it's hard and some people are having an easier time kind of pivoting than others. But that's why we're there. If taking a big leap is too much, let's figure out a baby step and try and help people that way.
Speaker 1:And I love how you reiterated that, jess. How do we teach today? When we were learning in the 80s and 90s, there was, you know, the pandemic was a hundred some years before that. And so this whole new wave of I feel it's like a reinvigorating of us to go okay, what can we do right now to serve our students and our staff? Because, you know, it was very isolating for teachers as well. You had a whole classroom. Now your classroom's down to a laptop and having to adjust and how isolating, like you said, you know, students around the world were in their homes for two years. They don't even know how to problem solve. Like you said, that social component, everything was on pause. You definitely hit that. It was really on pause for a long time.
Speaker 1:And to get back to that and I love how you talked about with inclusion, so many of us compartmentalize mental health, compartmentalize behavior, compartmentalize trauma, you know, and how it's all in a package of a student.
Speaker 1:A child could be going through something traumatic at home that doesn't want to discuss or disclose out of fear they might be taken away from their parent. Other child is so anxious about leaving mom or their grown-up at home. So there is a lot that we are uncovering and learning and thank you for including that and talking about the pulse that you're listening to from your teacher clients and administrators that it is behavior, mental health, absenteeism and I know we can't solve that in this episode today, but I love how you offer a multi-approach of in-person and online sessions and I love how that helps our teachers with PD going in and your approach of meeting and observing the school environment before you even can take them on. That's really really smart, before you even can take them on. That's really really smart. What other approaches that you can use to kind of help keep that approach more personalized? I love how you do kind of audit a school before you approach them. Is there another format that you've utilized, too, in your services?
Speaker 2:utilized too in your services. Yeah, an audit approach is really helpful because it just gathers data before we even start, and we've done that. We just finished an audit last week for a school in Mexico actually, who said we know things need to look different, but we're a little overwhelmed about where to start. So we suggest come in, let's kind of do this overall assessment and we can help you, so you're not just, you know, throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what's going to stick this year. So the audit is definitely something I wish people would take more advantage of, because it's just such good data. But it can be all the reasons budget time. So also I would say we have, even if we're going to do like a one hour training with a school. I usually I usually collect data as much from the teachers as possible. I've talked to the administrators. I want to know what kinds of situations I can bring up that are going to ring true for people or what types of things are just not. They're not part of the culture, they're not part of the way things work at school.
Speaker 2:We've been working with a few schools in Latin America over the past couple of months and one of the schools in Columbia. Actually they gave us. It was really helpful. After our first training, they said we're going to give you a lot of information about the context of our colombian international school students to help just guide how you, how you, interact, which was so interesting and helpful because it's not like one size fits anybody except mine. Yeah, and even though we're talking about similar things, we're talking about student behaviors, like the context in which the students live is so different that we like to try and understand it. So, yeah, I'm and I will not give a training unless I feel like I have a handle on that.
Speaker 2:I will ask for more special oh yeah, Years ago I was working with a school in Miami and I must have asked the administrator for four pre-workshop sessions just because it meant so much to me to try and understand before. People spend an hour, four hours of their day hopping onto Zoom to listen to me when life is busy and full. I want to feel like I understand the group before we get started.
Speaker 1:And that is just again. As an educator, we always love to be prepared and I love that Jessie Like if I need to do multiple sessions before.
Speaker 2:I start.
Speaker 1:I want to know the ins and outs of the environment, how the staff works, and I commend that school that you said in Columbia that gave you a guide of you know, and that again is also multicultural, multi-educational, of like. Here's the context that how we approach our students, and that I think is huge, and how they're prepared to help you so you can bring your best foot forward with their staff Awesome. And I also, I mean I tell you I could talk to you all day, my dear, just how you have that personalized approach as consultants. People think, oh well, you're just going to do the same approach, the same training, like you did with this client. It's very how you say.
Speaker 1:It's very important and vital that you do understand the client that you're serving and also learning from behind the scenes of the foundational people, the staff, the administrative staff, everybody that is in those touch points with understanding the whole child, I think is really important. So kudos to you. I also know again, what is your advice. You're a parent, I'm a parent, but when you have a student that struggles at school, is there any quick tip or advice? Because I know your company is really well versed in neuroscience as well. So what's your advice to them to kind of help their families for the first steps of academic support, like where should they go, who should they talk to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, first of all, I just have a lot of empathy for these families because we've lived through it and we the whole process, and it's very confusing.
Speaker 2:You don't know your rights, you don't know your child's rights, you don't know. And we my husband and I are both educators. So I have, like I said, a lot of empathy for families who need know they need to start advocating and don't know where to start. I can say, bringing me a lot of hope. More and more teachers that we work with have a better sense of, if not how to work with kids with different needs. They have the openness and many are ready and willing and able to do so. I would always start with the classroom teacher, ready and willing and able to do so. I would always start with the classroom teacher.
Speaker 2:We were really lucky in that when my son was in four-year-old preschool was when he had his evaluation and diagnosis, which is really early and thank goodness. But if you feel like, if you're a parent and you think I know there's more here, there's more to it, it can be really tricky. Learning disorders, behavior disorders, mental health is sneaky, it's all sneaky. So if you have that feeling as a parent, don't ignore it. We also started a program where our inclusive needs specialists on our team are offering to work with families as well to help them kind of navigate the first steps of the process.
Speaker 2:Again, just to kind of know what your rights are, to know what questions to ask, what kind of services to ask for. We ended up doing a lot of occupational therapy with our son and that wouldn't have been something I would have known to suggest and that wouldn't have been something I would have known to suggest. So again, we're trying to help people know what all the different resources and services are. But I would always start with a classroom teacher and maybe start with the same question that I ask teachers what are the joys you have working with my child and what's challenging? And maybe that can be the start of the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, jess, I love this. Oh, we could again. I'm just so excited you're here to share your expertise with all of our listeners and viewers. Where can they find you, as well as how can they connect with you and your team? Because I know we've got a lot of teachers listening, a lot of administrators listening around the world, so where can they find your amazing work?
Speaker 2:Well, thank you all for what you do. I mean truly. I think teachers and school leaders are it's the most important job, right? We're educating. We're educating tomorrow like the future. Oh yes, literally.
Speaker 1:And I wish I could triple all of your salaries. Right we're educating.
Speaker 2:We're educating tomorrow like the future. Yes, literally, and I wish, I wish I could triple all of your salaries and I wish you all got the respect that you deserve. Um, but the best way to contact us is just probably our website, northshorelearningorg. Um, and I'm jessica werner. You can find me on linkedin and I, yeah, be absolutely happy to hear from any school worldwide who you think this might support your learners and your staff.
Speaker 1:Love this and, yes, folks, we'll have Dr Werner's information in the show notes as well as our social media when this goes out. Live to everyone around the world. Thanks again for tuning in to the Culture Curriculum Chat podcast and Mrs Edmonds Cultural Corner on YouTube. If today's episode gave you fresh ideas for your classroom or inspired you in your inclusion journey, I'd love for you to take two quick steps before we go. First, hit that follow and leave a review so more educators like you can find this show. And secondly, visit JebaEdmondscom to grab your inclusive classroom lesson plans. I have over 70 of them K through 12, right on the website that you can purchase for your classroom today. And while you're there, check out our mini course titled the Power of Perceptions for Educators. It talks about our blind spots as well as how we can support and affirm our diverse learners. So, thanks again. I will see you here same time next week. Bye-bye.