Season 9 Episode #5 Building a World Where Everyone Can Thrive with Daniel Hodges

In this powerful episode of The Cultural Curriculum Chat Podcast™, host Jebeh Edmunds sits down with Daniel Hodges, President and Co-Founder of the Peaces of Me Foundation, to discuss disability advocacy, resilience, and building truly inclusive organizations.

Born blind and living with multiple disabilities, Daniel was once told he would never become a fully functioning adult. In fact, systemic failures in education caused him to miss grades 7–11 entirely.

Yet today, Daniel holds a Juris Doctorate and a Master’s in Healthcare Administration, and leads a nonprofit dedicated to breaking stigma surrounding disabilities.

In this conversation, Daniel shares:

• His journey overcoming adversity
• The importance of accessibility and authentic inclusion
• Why organizations should focus on calling people in rather than calling them out
• Simple ways workplaces and communities can become more inclusive
• How turning pain into purpose can change lives

This episode is a reminder that inclusion is not charity — it is justice.

Learn more about Daniel’s work:
https://www.peacesofme.org

Transcript

Jebeh Edmunds 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Cultural Curriculum Chat podcast where we explore culture, equity, education, and the human stories that help us build more inclusive communities. I'm your host, Jebba Edmonds educator, cultural consultant and author of the novel, the Orange Blossom, A story rooted in resilience Identity. And the search for purpose if you are new here, this podcast is where we have courageous conversations about culture, identity, leadership, and the systems that shape our lives. And today's conversation is one, I believe will stay with you long after this episode ends today. I am honored to welcome. Daniel Hodges. Daniel is a thought leader on accessibility and authentic inclusion of people with disabilities. He is the president and co-founder of the Pieces of Me Foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to transforming society through community education professional training. And resources that break the stigma surrounding disabilities. Daniel was born blind and lives with multiple disabilities, yet his journey defies the expectations that others placed on him early in life. In fact, there was a time when the school system believed. He was incapable of learning enough to function independently as an adult, so much so that he missed grades seven through 11 entirely. Yet today Daniel holds a Juris Doctorate from the University of Baltimore and a Master's in Healthcare administration from Western Governor's University. His life story is one of resilience, purpose, advocacy and the power of finding your why. Daniel, welcome to the Cultural Curriculum Chat podcast.

Daniel Hodges 1:57

Thank you so much for having me. It is, it's a pleasure to be here with you today.

Jebeh Edmunds 2:01

Oh, thank you for joining us, and let's begin with your story. Daniel, you were born blind and faced many barriers early in life. Can you share what your childhood and education journey looked like?

Daniel Hodges 2:16

Yeah, so. As you mentioned, I had very little eyesight in one eye and virtually nothing in the other. And you know, my parents did the best they could. They took me to eye doctor after eye doctor, they tried to find different glasses and different things that would work. And all the while, you know, there just wasn't that miracle solution out there that they could find. And. Everybody tied my potential as an adult to restoring my lost vision. So we're talking doctors who were trying to doctor things, and a school district in rural Ohio that had the best of intentions but didn't know to call the school for the blind in Ohio, a couple of hours down the road in Columbus. And so. K through six. It was a lot of, Hey, let's, you know, magnify the print so that it's the size of your palm and you can read it one letter at a time. And you try to learn like that and eventually you've got eye strain and just slow reading and you, you internalize this idea of, okay, I guess I'm not capable of learning at the same rate as my peers. I have to try to memorize everything and heaven help. I forget. Heaven, help me if I forget some component of the assignment I'm supposed to do for homework tonight. Those sorts of things. And it eventually, like you said, it got to the point where Mom tried to homeschool me, which was a reasonable enough thing, except for the homeschooling materials were inaccessible too. Nobody was there to support her. And so I didn't actually get a real shot at learning until I did a school for the blind in Idaho for what should have been grade 12. So that was, that was my K 12 in a nutshell. And yeah, like you mentioned all along the way, you had, oh, well he's smart for a kid who can't see or, you know, he does his best and he's got a great memory. And the occasional professional who would come in and say, well, given his vision loss, all he'll ever be able to do is cane chairs.

Jebeh Edmunds 4:29

Oh wow. I wish you could go back to those folks that, you know, doubted you and said, well, actually this is, look at me now. You know, I love your, your, your tenacity and not giving up, but also understanding how students, you know, with differences, how they struggled to try to. Not even adapt, but try to keep up and make their own adaptations. Like you said, memorizing as much as you can, and then, like you said, heaven forbid you forget something, you know? Yeah. That must have weighed heavily on you to just think that, you know, because of my difference, I'm not going to, you know, you kind of internalize that, right? Like, I'm not going to be like my peers because those accommodations, you know, weren't there for you. Wow.

Daniel Hodges 5:22

Absolutely. I remember distinctly a time when I was in fifth grade. Where I was under a lot of stress at the time and I went home fully expecting that I would remember all of my math problems for the night because that's what I did. I would say, okay, we're, you know, even numbers one through 14 plus, you know, 23, 35 and 48 or whatever the case may be on page, you know, 360 7 I, you know, the teacher could say that. That afternoon, I'd go home, remember it off the top of my head that evening and all was well. Well, I had one night where I couldn't remember and I'm like, oh no, and it happened a couple of days in a row. So I actually went to the school and said, Hey, something's going on here. I can't remember what I was supposed to do. No, I didn't write it down 'cause I can't read my own handwriting. And they're like, well, welcome to being human if you can't re remember everything. No, you don't understand. That's the, that's the technol technique. I've been given help and you know, eventually, ironically enough, I was diagnosed with A DHD later, in my early in early adulthood. Which is funny because I, I do have in one hand. Great memory if I'm able to intentionally focus on something. Mm-hmm. And yet also bad short term memory if I, if I allow myself to slip. And you know, ironically enough, the intersection of those unquote disabilities combined with me being gifted, actually. Made it to where it took years for somebody to actually say, Hey, you actually do have A DHD. Nobody caught it because you were operating in this particular zone. And so when when you slipped, you didn't slip into the area they thought you would, you slipped in the unquote normal range, which is how it was missed. So I find, I find all of that, particularly like you said in the education system, really fascinating. Yeah, that is fascinating because all they were focusing on was your vision loss, you know, and thinking that was just it. And how you use that as your survival too, you know? Yeah. To keep up. But also it end up also being another superpower of yours because of how far you've come. This is just an amazing story. Um, you've. With that example of experiencing, you know, disability discrimination, the assumptions that, oh, you're only one category here and not the other. Um, you also talk about, when I did research about nearly losing custody of your child during her cancer treatment, how did that experience shape your advocacy work? Yeah. So to set the stage for your audience. Ex-wife, wife at the time and I were having our, our, our first child, our daughter, we were in our early twenties. We were living in Denver and we had actually gone through multiple different hospitals during my ex-wife's pregnancy looking for a team that we thought would be safe because we knew that blind people losing custody was a thing. So we were actually aware of that reality. And trying to, trying to mitigate the risks while she was pregnant, knowing that our child had a 50 50 shot of inheriting the same eye cancer that her mama, that her mama had beaten. Mm-hmm. And even with that, we find a team that we think is gonna be affirming or at the very least open-minded.

Jebeh Edmunds 9:17

Yes. Yes.

Daniel Hodges 9:17

And we, we get to the point where we're, you know, I guess. I shouldn't say we're delivering. I didn't do much of anything. Um, but where support,

Jebeh Edmunds 9:27

I get it. Yes, I'm a mama too.

Daniel Hodges 9:29

Yes, but you know where, where her mom is delivering and welcoming baby Heather into the world. And in the midst of all this, you've got nurses coming in and checking the diapers because they don't believe that Heather hasn't, hasn't used the restroom. Soiled a diaper. They don't believe that. Even though Marian's like, yeah, I know how to, I know how to tell if a diaper's soiled. Exactly. She's not soiling these diapers. Literally had a nurse come in and unwrap all of them because she didn't believe her. We had social workers. It's psychologist come in and say, well, how can you tell if you know, could you tell the temperature? How can you do these other things? And we answered every one of those questions. We, you know, diapers were changed. She breastfed successfully everything you would expect new parents to be able to do. We did, and none of us, we, they hospital actually held us an additional night in the hospital waiting for. Marian's mom to come back to Colorado from Idaho to visit so that they would have a sighted person in the home before they would release us from the hospital.

Jebeh Edmunds 10:50

Wow. Wow.

Daniel Hodges 10:50

And even even with that, even with that, we had a note from CPS on our door when we got home saying, Hey, there's a case open. We'll be back. So the day that we took. Heather for her first eye appointment, and by the way, saw the spot in her eye that we knew we'd have to treat that same day we were navigating having a CPS worker in our home. Who was sent there to question whether or not we could parent and wow. Thankfully we had an awesome caseworker. Um, she came in and she said, you know what? It don't smell like drugs in here. It's relatively clean for everything that's been going on around here. Why am I here? And she opened up the case and she said, you gotta be kidding me. The only thing that they have here is that you're blind. So here's what's gonna happen. I'm going to keep the case open because I'm legally required to, but consider me an ally. I'll bring diapers, I'll bring baby clothes, work it into your schedule as everything as you can, because I know you got other stuff to do. And in the meantime, I'm gonna go back to the state and say, not only should I not be here, but this is wrong. So yes, so we, we, we, we lucked out there. We were very, very blessed there. In a way that some other couples haven't been, but yeah. You know, um, yeah, I was working full time during that season, uh, graveyard stocking shelves at a, at a retail store and attending sometimes multiple appointments a week for Heather's care. Um, um, to get to your question, now that I've. Thank you. It, uh, sorry.

Jebeh Edmunds 12:44

No, no, no. Thank you for the background because Yeah, I, I want my listeners and viewers to understand, you know, although you, you and your wife at the time had disabilities, just the, the cruelty of, you know, being new parents and still being scrutinized that you were incapable of taking, you know, taking care of your child. That's just heartbreaking.

Daniel Hodges 13:06

Yeah. And, and so somewhere along the way. I was able to internalize and say these people, though they made decisions that I profoundly disagree with. Mm-hmm. Were byproducts of a healthcare system that has historically marginalized, abused, and just downright, uh, you know. Dehumanize people with disabilities. Mm-hmm. For generations Now, that is the system that brought them up. That's a system they came from. And so while there is some culpability there, they'll have to be accountable for that. That's not on me. The bigger culprit here is a system that desperately needs reform, so. Eventually, 10 years later, I found myself being challenged by a couple of mentors to go to law school to really do something about this stuff. And my original intent was to practice at the intersection of healthcare and civil rights. And eventually that morphed into starting pieces of me with my cousin, and it all came back to we. We can't keep fighting these battles on an individual level. We have to get to the root of the problem. We have to get better training out there. We have to have an opportunity for providers, for staff, for people who are in positions of influence, to have their questions answered in a setting that is helpful and healthy so that when they encounter someone with a disability. They're able to be diligent and curious and necessary, but not skeptical to the point where they're actually making professional judgements that are deeply harmful.

Jebeh Edmunds 14:58

Yes. Especially with those biases. And, um, may I ask, how is your daughter doing now?

Daniel Hodges 15:04

I'm glad you did. She is doing great. She is about to turn 18 at the time that we're recording this here in a few weeks, and she's, um, just about to finish getting her driver's license. I mean, she's, she's rocking it.

Jebeh Edmunds 15:20

That's amazing, Daniel. Oh, I feel you. I just had, my son just turned 18 two weeks ago, so I feel you, you know, when they feel like they're now adults, it's like, oh, you're still my kid. You'll always be my kiddo. Yeah. That's wonderful. And yes, I, I, this does lead me to the pieces of me foundation that you co-founded with your cousin. Um, and, um. Especially, you know, your, your, you know, your family story with your daughter Heather. Um, what else inspired you with this pieces of me foundation? Like what are you all doing right now? Are you going to health systems and, and providing training? Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Daniel Hodges 16:01

Yeah, so to get to your question of what inspired it, I was actually coming off the. Tail end. No, I wasn't coming off the tail end to be real. I was in the tail end of a serious mental health crisis in 2019. Um, I saw so many people who were falling through the cracks. Same mistakes. Same. Ignorance, same bias, and was just over it. And at the same time, I was hanging out with Christine, my cousin in Phoenix, and she was talking about how even as a social worker, when her daughter was born with an unexpected limb difference, nobody knew where to send her. Nobody knew how to help her, and nothing in her professional training had prepared her to set her daughter up for success either. So I said, okay, Christie. There's a common theme here. It doesn't matter what disability or difference we're talking about here, the underlying roots are the same, and we've got to attack them at the roots. So that's what led to us saying, we ha we're gonna break stigma and we're gonna break stigma with better information, with better conversations. And so the idea of spelling pieces, P-E-A-C-E-S started. Us down the road of saying, okay, we're gonna reframe this conversation. You're not missing a piece, P-I-E-C-E, you're missing the piece, P-E-A-C-E. That comes with knowing that you are exactly how as you are meant to be. And it evolved into let's meet people where they are. Let's have the conversations we need to have with every stakeholder. In a way that opens up the conversation, calls people into the conversation, and in doing so. Say, look, if you are willing to sit down with us and talk human to human, we're not worried about if you say something delicate or if you ask something that comes out sideways. There's grace here because by virtue of us having this conversation with you and you having it with us, we're assuming good intent. So let's break down the barriers. Let's break down the tension and the fear that often accompanies the discussion of accessibility. And by the end of it, not only are you going to feel differently about this topic, but hopefully you're going to see a new path forward within your sphere of influence.

Jebeh Edmunds 18:40

I love that. And, and, and also too, I love how you have the spelling, P-E-A-C-E-S instead of the, you know, like a piece, like a puzzle piece. Like nothing is missing. We wanna be here living in peace as who we are. And that is just amazing. Um, I love how you shared about the importance of calling people in rather than calling people out. Why is that distinction so important, Daniel?

Daniel Hodges 19:10

Because we, we want to actually make progress. You know, I'm not into performative inclusion and I'm not into performative advocacy. Yes, there are. There are voices out there who are. Sharing a message of hurt and of division because it comes from a place of trauma and it comes from a place of deep pain. And I get that. Trust me, I've been there. But to me, turning that pain into purpose means making practical steps toward. Solving the systemic problems. And we can't do that if the people we're counting on to help us make these changes are feeling defensive when we're around them.

Jebeh Edmunds 20:02

Yes, yes. Thank you. And what is also like, what are some of the biggest misconceptions that people still hold today when it comes to people with differences?

Daniel Hodges 20:14

So the first one is that people, people often assume that. The disability itself is the barrier. For instance, if I were to ask you off the top of your head, what percentage of my daily struggles do you think are intrinsic to vision loss versus what's in, you know, versus what's a byproduct of inaccessibility or systemic bias? Most people will say it's 70% vision loss and 30%. Um, lack of inclusion and accessibility, and I say it's actually the opposite. Bias and inaccessibility is a much bigger hurdle for me than the ins and outs of actual vision loss. I can train for that, but when I am having to. Kind of gulp every time I need to go check out a new website, a new app, because you know it's not gonna be accessible, you just hope it's possible. Um, when I'm applying for the job and. You are, you feel like you have to be 20% or 50%, or a hundred percent better than the competition because it's not about what you can do. It's about what they think you can do. That's a huge hurdle. And then the other, the beauty of this is when we understand that inaccessibility and our own perceptions are the problem, guess what? That's fixable. We don't, we don't need miracle surgeries or some magic dust to, un- disability -ify us I mean, sure, some people are out there trying to get the me medical treatment possible. That's fine. That's not what I'm talking about here. It's mm-hmm. The, it's that perception that we need some. Miracle cure to get back into society that holds us where we are and keeps us from really entering the world around us. You know, that's, that's the biggest misconception right there. And then I think, you know, simple people off, you know, people are under this conception, under, under this misconception that. You have to choose between access and profit, between inclusion and merit, and those are false dichotomies. So false. Yes. Accessibility. Done right is profitable. Yes. Inclusion done right is based on merit. Bring our gifts and talents to the table. My phrase is, let me compete in an arena free of bias and barriers and be the best candidate win. Mm-hmm. That's what this should look like.

Jebeh Edmunds 23:04

Yes. Oh, I love that. And I, I can't stand that misconception, Daniel of, oh, accessibility is expensive. It's difficult to implement, you know? And, and what are some practical steps organizations can take today? Because that, like you said, those biases and the lack of accessibility is the most like you said, the biggest hurdle than your vision loss. Yeah.

Daniel Hodges 23:31

Step number one, get curious. So many things are, are just based on understandable, completely false assumptions. You know, we, within the disability rights, disability justice movement have not done a good job on the whole of highlighting the business case for accessibility. Yes, there's a human rights case. Yes, that case is valid, but especially when you're on the verge of a recession. People wanna keep their businesses open. People wanna be able to feed their families. I get that. So we need to go back to our strength and say, look, we help businesses make money. We help businesses stay open. Yes, we help businesses innovate. That's, we bring gifts and talents and insight to the table that organizations need. That's the big thing right there. And, as we reframe that conversation, that is, that's where the magic happens. So if you're out there wondering what to do, yeah, you can reach out to pieces. You can reach out to a number of other organizations, especially organizations that are disability led. We are the experts in our field.

Jebeh Edmunds 24:51

Yes. That part.

Daniel Hodges 24:52

yeah. And so, you know, that is, that is the big thing right there. If you are a small team and you're like, I just don't know. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to turn. If you are somebody who understands the concept of say, design thinking or high level problem solving, you've already got the tools. To do this, if you know how to do design thinking or, or a similar thought process, you know how to set up the accommodation process right with the right feedback. If you are into things like working genius theory or job crafting or any of those other similar things. You are already on the path to helping design roles that can be inclusive. All we gotta do is sprinkle in a little subject matter expertise to do what you're doing and you're gonna be in a much different spot. That's the beauty of this.

Jebeh Edmunds 25:49

Yeah, it is the beauty of it. And like you said, that sprinkle that audit. Be curious. Ask the experts who that is, their lived experience, you know, what best to learn from them. Oh man. Daniel, this has been such a wonderful conversation with you today. Um, one last question before we go. Where can our listeners and viewers find your amazing work and the pieces of me foundation that you have?

Daniel Hodges 26:17

Yes, so we are pieces of me.org and you can find more about how to support us, time, talent, and treasure. We're always looking for people to join the community and you don't have to have a disability. You don't even have to be someone who's familiar with accessibility to be part of what we're doing. I'll tell you some of our best board members, some of our best advisors, our best volunteers have come into this field saying. I'm new to this topic, but I, but I'm an expert in this other thing. How can I add to what you're doing? And it has made us so much stronger. So please visit the website. You know, if this speaks to you, let's get you involved. Also, I am on LinkedIn, Daniel Hodges, jd MHA. Would love to connect with any real listeners. We're actually launching something called the Access Opportunity Tour, which is going live. We're running a pilot project for it right now. And all of that is, is helping organizations of all kinds, businesses, healthcare, nonprofit, houses of worship, small government, we don't care, whatever organization we can help. And it's about listening. Where, where are your pain points? What are your goals? What have you tried? How can we help you make a breakthrough that leads you to that next place? Not by telling you what to do, but by helping you discover those insights that are sustainable, replicable, and relevant to you. If that sounds good to you, please reach out on LinkedIn or pieces of me.org. Let's, let's, let's get you started.

Jebeh Edmunds 28:02

I love that. Thank you so much Daniel, and thank you for sharing your story and your work and how we can create a world where everyone has the opportunity to thrive together. And, um, you know, your journey reminds all of us that adversity does not define us. But how we transform it into purpose, absolutely can. And I'm just blown away by your talent, your grit, and you know, you're just so easy to talk to. And, um, break it down for all of us, that you don't have to have a difference in order to make a difference, you know, in order to work alongside each other. Thank you so much Daniel and I will have all of Daniel's information, his pieces of me website, his LinkedIn, so you can continue to reach out to Daniel and see what we all can do together. And if this conversation, um, resonated with you today, please share it with, um, anyone who is willing to keep moving forward. When it comes to inclusivity, uh, thank you all again for listening and watching on YouTube. Until next time, remember these courageous conversations, help us move forward together. Thanks again, and I'll see you here same time, same place next week. Bye.