Season 9 Episode #10 Reimagining Schools with Joy, Equity, and Courage: A Conversation with Dr. Deonna Smith

In this powerful return episode of The Cultural Curriculum Chat Podcast™, host Jebeh Edmunds welcomes back educational justice advocate Dr. Deonna Smith for a deeper conversation about the future of equitable education.

Dr. Smith, founder of Deonna Smith Consulting, works with schools across the country to help educators create learning environments centered on equity, inclusion, and joy. (deonnasmithconsulting.com)

Together, Jebeh and Dr. Smith explore:

• Why joy is a critical part of equitable classrooms
• How educators can move beyond performative allyship
• Strategies for addressing teacher burnout
• Practical ways to build inclusive school cultures
• What the future of education could look like

This episode is a must-listen for educators, school leaders, and anyone passionate about transforming education.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Cultural Curriculum Chat Podcast, where we explore the intersection of culture, education, and justice. I'm your host, Jebba Edmonds, educator, cultural competency consultant, and author of The Orange Blossom. Today's episode is a special one because we are welcoming back a returning guest to the show who has been doing powerful work in education. Dr. Deanna Smith is an educational justice advocate, former teacher and school leader, and the founder of Deanna Smith Consulting, where she works with schools and organizations to build cultures rooted in equity, belonging, and joy. Her work challenges educators to move beyond performative equity and instead create learning spaces where students and teachers can truly thrive. Dr. Smith, welcome back to the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yay, so good to be back. Thank you for having me. I'm very much looking forward to our conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Oh, yes, me too, my dear. So when you joined us before, we talked about the importance of equity and joyful classrooms. Since then, you know, education has continued to shift. You know it in more ways than one. So what changes in schools have stood out to you the most over the past couple years?

SPEAKER_03 1:52

That's a great question. So I think we've had a couple really big pendulum switch like switches and changes. Of course, I really came into education long before we were having a national conversation about equity. And, you know, back when Lucy Calkins was still the best practice on the street. So I came in at a very interesting time. Okay. But one of one of the things that um a couple of the things that have stood out to me right is of course the science of reading revolution. I think that is something that has just really been a paradigm shift. Um, and of course, the return to and then the abandonment of equity practice. So that was a tight shift. That was kind of like a quick one-year, two-year thing. And then now obviously we're seeing a lot of pushback against that. And then now recently, what I'm following very, very closely is the simultaneous investment and interest in AI while a lot of information is coming out about the harm that ed tech and just overutilization of Chromebooks and learning platforms have done. So it has been a busy, busy couple, like five years. I mean, the last five years, right? I'm sure you feel the same way. We have had so many just kind of huge shifts in education and changes. And it's been interesting to navigate that, to say the least.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

And like, yeah, and like whiplash, it's like from one extreme to the next, and this and that. Like we can't even catch our breath.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

I mean, you had me at Lucy Culkins. I was like, oh yeah, oh, Lucy, that's a whole nother episode. I just love having you here. Oh my goodness. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

So I think, like you said too, you know, what we're really learning about with the, you know, overutilization of ed tech, AI, all of the things. And still, like you said, the lack thereof and the pushback, you know, with equity. Like we can still have these conversations on equity. You know, it's not a flavor of the month kind of a thing. It should be embedded everywhere. And I love watching your reels. I've been following you for a long time and just how you give it to a straight no chaser. Even that's why I reached out to you the first time, you know, and and I love how you shared about, you know, those biggest misconceptions that we're still encountering. Can you give us an example like what you've shared on your reels and on social media about that?

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Yeah. So I think one major misconception that I see with equity work is that, like you said, it's it's a flavor of the month. It was a fad, it was a trend, and it was just all about, you know, touchy-feely, we just need to get a couple of black protagonists in our ELA block and we're good to go. And that couldn't be further from the truth because what I find is fascinating, right? If you look at a lot of these kind of bombshell moments in education where we're realizing, uh-oh, our kids can't read. Uh-oh, we don't have the connections between home and school like we thought we had. Uh-oh, maybe these kids sitting up on the Chromebooks for 60 minutes at a time every single day wasn't the best move. If you actually look back at culturally responsive pedagogy, you would find that all of these practices, right, were cautioned against in culturally responsive pedagogy. So that's why I always say culturally responsive teaching is just good teaching. Because if we look to the greats, if we look to the Gloria Latson Billings, the Geneva Gays, the Zaretta Hammonds, they have been telling us it's not new, it's not 2020, it is 1976, right? They have been telling us like, hey, like our kids need engaging learning experiences and not just fun and exciting and cutesy learning, but actual true engagement. They need to be learning, carrying the cognitive load. They need to be doing, not just listening. I mean, you could take it all the way back to Ferrere and the banking model, right? So this is not a new trend. And a lot of the trends in education that we've been seeing that have turned out to not be helping our students learn and grow, if we would have just kept our focus on those culturally responsive practices, which are great for all students, and that and that's from data, that's not my opinion. We wouldn't be in this situation right now. So a huge misconception that I need people to let go of is that culturally responsive teaching and equity work is not about singing kumbaya and a Kente cloth and a Black Lives Matter sign in 2020. We're trying to tell you this is what helps our kids learn, all of them. So it's time to recognize it for what it is, which is best practices in a very respected field.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yes. And that's it. It's best practices. And you know as well as I do, being in education for a long time, if it isn't broke, don't fix it, don't look for something else. Honey, you know, and some of the simplest things is culturally responsive, you know, and that's another thing that so many of us neglect. And I love how you touched on, you know, the the black protagonists in our ELA. It's like, it's not just one fat identity, there's multiple identities that are your protagonists, and and also just show the human makeup of how decisions lead to different and wrong paths as well. You also need to highlight that as well. Oh my gosh. And another thing I love about you, your work centers around the joy that it's not luxury and education, it's essential. I love how you have that joy as your radical practice. So why do you think joy sometimes disappears from school environments when we're talking about responsive teaching? You know, oh, that joy is the fun. Oh, she's the, you know, oh, Miss Smith is always doing the fun stuff. It's like, no, you can include joy into your learning, right? And and that's what I got from some of my colleagues. Like, oh, you're always the fun. Everybody wants, you know, give us the scoop. Like, how is joy-centered in our classrooms actually supposed to look like?

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Oh, yes. I would, I mean, I would love to. I I could talk about this stuff all day. Well, the first thing I want to name is right, I I'm not sure about this latest generation of teachers because I think that, you know, more and more young people coming into the field are really the Chromebook generation. Okay, but I'm talking about people that are, let's say, if you graduated, you know, from high school before, you know, the year like 2005, 2006, if you've been in education for a while. If you think about your educational experience, the things that you remember, the things that kept you in the classroom, the things that made you want to go back to school, it was not a learning management program. It was not a learning management program. It was a field trip. It was the OG teachers with the, you know, the vests, right? You remember the teachers used to have the baddest vests in the game, and they knew all the letters, and we were singing songs, and there was just color and imagination and joy. Our schools used to be so, so joyful because we recognize at the end of the day, you're talking about a trial. Now we're moving further and further away from that because of our obsession and a misguided obsession with the data and the results and the standards. But the funny thing is, the funny thing is, when you double down on joy, your students actually learn more. So we end up kind of shooting ourselves in the foot because we're thinking, oh, we need to take out all of these fun things, no more field trips, no interactive learning. You know, the we gotta, we have kindergartners that they're not having time to play in the day because they're so busy kind of drilling and memorizing, when they would actually learn more if we worked with the child's way of learning, if we worked with neuroscience, if we worked with what's developmentally appropriate. So one of the things that I like to remind people of is you think about what you would want to do all day. Okay. Because this is what gets me. And I and I say this with love to my teachers. If I if I have a PD that's not engaging, these teachers will roast me. Okay, they will come for me. They will be up moving, they will complain if I'm not engaging enough. If they have to go to a sit and get, they can't stand it. But then if I go to your classroom, it better also not be a sit and get. Think about what you would like. What would you like your kid to do? Would you like your kid to be at school all day, sitting? Or would you like your kid to be learning and playing and doing interactive things? These are the things that we have to think about. But we're we're getting kind of lost in the sauce of this idea that schools have to look a certain way and we need to control our kids. You don't want to be controlled. You wouldn't want your kids to be controlled. So the sooner we let go of control, the more we can let joy in. Another thing that's critical is this this mindset shift around joy is something that we need to kind of earn and work for. And this is why I say we need our teachers. The first thing it starts with you. I need you to be good and you to be joyful and a happy person. Because if you're not a happy person, that's when you start getting in this mindset of punishments of, you know, well, you just have to sit here and I'm taking away your Friday on Friday. That's when we start to see a lot of those behaviors when we have folks that are not well, that are not happy within themselves, that have totally lost the plot that this is a child, you're talking to an eight-year-old, you know, take a deep breath. And so I'm seeing more and more of this in education. And I'm also seeing, which is a product of the burnout, which is not the on the teachers themselves, but rather on the system, there is a lot of burnout. And when teachers get burnt out, they're not trying to be joyful. There, that's that's when just sitting there and reading the text quietly or just going on iReady starts to look real good because you're burnt out and you're just over it. And so I'm seeing a lot of that as well. Like teachers that I know can be joyful, that I know have it in them, that I know care about their kids, but they're just burnt out and they're like, okay, well, I'm just gonna do this thing and check a box and kind of keep it pushing. And so I'm seeing a lot, a lot of that as well, which is truly breaking down the human essence of our schools, you know, the joy, the light, the spirit, a lot of that is being eroded because our teachers are burnt out and we have folks that are not, you know, that are not really able to show up for the kids in the ways that we need to be showing up for them.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yes. Oh, I tell you, you've nailed it, my dear, because that teacher burnout is real. You see so many of us leaving the profession. So many of us are like crawling to get to spring break, like damn, you know, you know, and then they're crying because it's the Sunday before they got to get back to reality, you know. So I feel for all of them. And how you said those best teachers, especially with the applique.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Shout out to Miss Stephen.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

She had the best applique, denim on denim. She had a pet rat. Fifth grade was popping, you know. So those are the types of people that you're like, you know, and those are the joy, you're right, has been sucked out of so many of us in this profession. And I really love how you shared that educator burnout is the system. It is not our human spirit. It's the the blocks that we are prevented it from. It's the the expectation, it's the the standardized tests, it's the you need all how many Chromebook minutes and hours, and this ed tech, you know, is contracted by our district and we have to fulfill their expectations or we won't get this funding. And and I love how you talked about the sustainability and rest for our educators. What are some of the best strategies that teachers can use to protect their energy and stay in this profession?

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah, it's it is, you know, and I don't want to gaslight or sugarcoat anybody because it is a hard job. And I think sometimes we just have to make that. And I when when I hear teachers that are like, okay, I'm moving on, sometimes it's okay to say that this is not the best, this is not the best job for everybody. Okay. If you put me, if you put me in a corporate job, I would, you know, I would wither away. So every job is not for everybody. That's number one. Every grade level is not for everybody. I see a lot of people and I'm like, I just think that you need to be with older kids because you're not built to handle, can you tie my shoes? I threw up, I have to go to the bathroom 45 times a day. And that's okay. And that's okay. Yeah. And then I see other people where it's like, honey, your spirit is too soft because these middle schoolers talking about your shoes every day has you in shambles. You need to go in kindergarten where they love you and they'll write you little notes. Like, I love my teacher all day. So I think some of it is just that. I we have people in the wrong grade level in the wrong school district. Um I have to call out my principals because we have some people with the wrong principal, with the wrong leader, unfortunately. So sometimes it's just that. And I want to like continue to echo that for people or the wrong, you know, if public schools aren't working, maybe you need to be at an archdiocese, maybe you need to be at a charter school. So sometimes it's just a it's a move. And then the other thing that I need teachers to understand is there's no such thing as a joyful classroom without a joyful teacher. It just doesn't happen. So I need you to do whatever it is that you need to do. One of the things that I advocate for across the board is I talk to school districts and I say, if you want to reduce burnout, you need to cover 100% of therapy for your employees. That's what you need to do. You need to do mental health care with no copay for your employees and watch the burnout go down. Because some teachers, you it's a caring profession. You need to need someone pouring into you and creating space for you because you're creating space for people all day. Because the reality is some of this stuff is not going to change. I can tell teachers burnout tips and tricks all the time, but that's not going to lower the demand of our current society. It's a tough time to be a teacher. It's a terrible time to be a child. I don't think I could do it. I mean, don't you agree? Could you be a kid?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

As a mom of two teenagers, it is rough out there. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

It's a lot of mental load for them too.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I appreciate that because I love how you shared how you have to change within either it's a different grade level, it's a different school system, it's a pivot of a different administrator, you know, and some of that keeps you going, you know, of oh wow, you know, the littles do like me, you know, or the bigs are my people. Like I can be sarcastic with the bigs and and they give it right back, you know. It could be just that. And how do you and I love that because yeah, my mom, bless her, she taught first grade through and through. Those first graders were her people. I taught first grade for five years. It terrified me because it was like, I gotta go to the bathroom. I need to tie my shoes. I'm like, I don't know how to tie.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

You don't know how to tie?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

No, because I'm not getting in.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

But when I found my fifth grade people, they were like my folks.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

They were like getting into the, you know, and that's how I felt that resurgence, that new energy. And and I tell you, if somebody told me that, you know, you don't have to be in this first grade till you retire. Some people just don't want to be in first grade that long. It's okay to shift and pivot, you know. And that, thank you, Deanna, because that that I know there's some teacher listeners out there going, okay, maybe I need to reevaluate me going, you know, because we do need those teachers. And that joy does come back, you know, and that energy does come back. And I really love that because you're not here to say, oh, here's a quick fix. I love how you said, you know, systematically, you need to invest in your teachers in their mental health and their, you know, either it's wellness days or, you know, whatever that looks like to go back into your teachers because we are. We are the tea, you know, we are their venting machine, we are the problem solver before, you know, lunch starts. You know, we are all of those things. And it's very taxing. And again, on top, teaching what our students need to learn. Oh, child, this is so good. Oh, so good.

SPEAKER_03 19:34

And I I have one more thing to add too to that, though. Because especially for any administrators listening and teachers.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

We're kind of in a in a double-edged sword with professional development, training, and support. Okay. And I'll say it because a lot of teachers don't like PD. And I get it because a lot of PD is terrible. It sucks. And a lot of teachers don't like coaching because coaching and PD feels like accountability and not support. One thing that I'm noticing with a lot of our younger teachers, I don't know if you've seen this too, is the burnout is actually coming from they were not equipped with tools to meet the needs that they're facing. I mean, if you if you got a credential in the last, I'm gonna say five years, that credential probably, and no shade on the credential programs because I work in one, I love them. We're not preparing our teachers the way that they need to be prepared. And so I think some of the burnout is also coming from you're not necessarily being set up for your success from your program. And a lot of we have a lot of bad PD, we have a lot of bad coaching, we got a lot of out-of-touch people, people that are not still in the classroom, people that have don't have the empathy and that don't really know how to skill build our teachers up. And so if you're a teacher and you're listening and you're thinking you're gonna burn out, I'm gonna ask you a question lovingly is do you have the skills? And it's okay if you don't. And if you don't have the skills, it's your leader's job or somebody's job to make sure that you get those skills. Because I do think it comes to a point where there is a skill gap. And that's okay to say that. I don't know how to manage my classroom, it feels unmanageable. Great, let's get you some help. Because that's if that's gonna burn you out real fast. I mean, that's the quickest way to burn out, to throw somebody into the trenches where they don't really have the tools to know what they're doing. So I wanted to add that too, because I see a lot of thank you.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

And you're right, because they feel ill-prepared, and then all of a sudden it's like, well, this wasn't in my classroom management class. This was not in this chapter, you know. And it and and I love how you shared that some teachers feel that coaching is the accountability. What are you missing? How come you didn't learn this? And there's a lot of shame behind that as well, you know, instead of lifting each other up. And you're right, some PD, it's like for the birds. You're like, oh, again, but then there's some like yours, yes, you gotta get Deanna in your PD because even in this conversation, it's like, yes, I want to go back in the class where we can practice some of this stuff that you're sharing. So I love that. And and speaking of reimagining, you know, the future of education, because I still have hope and I know you still believe, you know, Lola.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Still believe, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

I just feel like, you know, what we have, I I especially being in this profession for as long as I have been, and I know as long as you have been, we see the pain points clearly. It's blinding, but we still can turn it around, you know? And so if you could design your ideal school environment today, what would it look like, my dear?

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Ooh, I love that. Okay. Well, some of the things that I think about in my in my ideal school, in my dream school, that one day hopefully I'll have the resources and funds to open. Is, you know, I'm in California, I'm in LA. So a lot of it is outside. I I love the idea of it being like a community type space, right? In my ideal school, we have a big playground area. We have a garden. I love a couple like tactical things. I love when teachers can loop with students. So I love like K1 loop and then a two, right? I love a loop, a loop opportunity because I went to a Montessori school. So I had the same teacher for three years, one through three and then four through six. And I got a lot out of that. So I would love that. As far as the pedagogy, right, it would be very heavily influenced by cultural responsive pedagogy, a little Montessori. In there, very inquiry play driven. But I, you know, I do believe that you still need to prepare your students. And this is something that I see sometimes when we move into like focusing on the inquiry base. It can be hard for people to figure out well, how does that mesh with preparing them for the real world? Right. So the interactive piece is very interactive and play-driven, but we're still doing a lot of the rigorous, and which is kind of a buzzword I hate to use, but y'all know what I mean. Rigorous, you know, aligned work to make sure that we're preparing students for the future. Social emotional health is a non-negotiable. Everybody, like I'm talking about at least two classes a week, social emotional health. We're talking about empathy because I think we're in an empathy recession right now, and that's what they go I got in our world. You know, highly teachers that get a lot of training, that get a lot of support, folks that want to have fun and have a good time. And, you know, I think it's important too to have some shared leadership. Like I love the idea of teachers being able to and families being able to be a part of like the planning process. But at the at the root of the school, right? It's it's still just those best practices. Cultures both teaching is just good teaching. So it's a very joyful, a very joyful building. I I would hope to have one day. Yes. And I think really like it starts with humanizing the students and humanizing the adults. And so that's those are some like little little things that I that I think about with this building. And I would love, like I said, I would love for it to be a K8. I think I just think that's such a great model. But you know, for folks listening and they're thinking, okay, that's great, Deanna. What are some things that I can do like in my classroom? Right. For teachers, again, I always say start with yourself. You have to check in with yourself first. How are you doing? The only thing we can control is how we show up every day. There's so I mean, we don't we don't know if we'll have a department of education tomorrow. Like it's like it's like that critical.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

It is this is truly a time where education has never been at more of a tipping point. But the other thing is education is the the foundation, right, of our future. So you've got to make sure that you're showing up ready to be in that legacy, taking care of yourself, getting the support that you need. I'm a big proponent of mindfulness, wellness. Starting with you, if you're having a tough time, watch how getting yourself right will transform your classroom. And then another thing from a teacher's perspective, right, is I always like to say, just pick one day or one subject if you're multiple subject teacher, pick one day or one subject to start to play around with joy, to start to play around with inquiry-driven instruction, to start to play around with more culturally responsive practices. Because I'm saying a lot of things, and for someone who's pretty far, it can feel very intimidating. Like what, like that's so far away from where I'm at right now. Start with one day or one subject and say this is my subject, like on Tuesdays, my math block. I'm just gonna think about all the ways to make it more joyful and culturally responsive, right? So start small with yourself, but start to chip away at it and allow it to also feed you. When we have more joyful schools, we the teachers benefit from that too. So your classroom being this joyful place will give you the energy to keep moving forward as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Oh, I love that, Deanna. And you're right. It's just one subject, one day, you can make it work. And and it's little things, it's games. It's I would I used to do a lot of call and response in my class being from Liberia. So it just kept the kept the vibe going, you know, and even like Feet Up Friday, reading a little bit, put your feet up, let's read, you know, little things keep the things keep the momentum going. And I just love it, you know, and especially when you talked about education being at the tipping point, you know, the empathy recession we are definitely feeling even outside of our schools. And yes, your ideal school sounds heavenly. I hope it comes into fruition. I can't wait to visit. Yes, one day. Let's talk about your book. I know we read, we talked about your book last episode, but for our newbies that haven't, you know, listened back to the previous episode, share about your book and especially how our you know teachers can embed your joy and belonging in their class. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

Yeah. And so Rooted and Joy, my my book, Baby. Um really, I call it a love letter to teachers because it is simultaneously taking like the big stuff, right? Because I it started off really as my dissertation. I got a doctorate in education and focusing right on culture, responsive practices and joy. So it takes the big stuff, the systemic issues, like these are the big, big e-equity things that are going on in our world. Here's the challenges, etc. But it also takes the little quotidian things. Here are the daily things you can do, the silly things that you can do to just to bring that joy in and really breaks it down into a clear step and process because I know my teachers we love a we love an implementation plan. We love things we do laid out, we love a process, so it's all laid out for you there. And I I also include a chapter all on mindsets because again, I I can tell you on Tuesday do this, on Wednesday, do that. But the true spirit of being joyful as a teacher is really in your mindset and in your disposition. You have to humanize your students and you have to, you don't have to love teaching every day, but you have to you have to have a love of this game. You know, there's something about this that has to really speak to you, and you can tell it it shows up in your classroom. You have to have a love and a regard for your students, you have to want them to have, you know, a positive experience. And so the mindset pieces are really important for folks because you you you can't really fake the funk on this. I can like I said, I can give you all the steps, but it won't actualize in the same way if your mindset isn't where it needs to be. And that's why I keep talking about starting with yourself and where you're at and where we're showing up. And I don't put it on the individual, these mindsets are cultivated. You got a lot of, and I'm gonna be controversial here for a second because you know I keep it real. You got a lot of these, I think, very toxic narratives on social media about teaching that people are feeding into. You've got a lot of toxic staff faculty lounges. And I think Instagram and TikTok have become a virtual faculty lounge or a virtual staff lounge where there's a lot of these toxic narratives, really kind of deficit mindsets being permeated. So the mindsets I'm not putting on the individual teacher because you're soaking it up. The world is not a fun place to be right now for a lot of folks. You've got this really toxic narrative on social media. You've got people that are paying eight at this at the time of this recording, eight dollars a gallon for gas. Okay. And I know you're already underpaid and everything's going up, right? So, so I'm not the mindset, it's hard. It's really hard right now to feel excited and good and happy about teaching, but we have to address the mindsets first. And then the next two chapters talk about creating your ecosystem. And that's what I call your classroom as an ecosystem. I talk about setting up a joyful ecosystem and then most importantly, maintaining it. Because the ecosystem, think about an ecosystem. If you're if you're a science teacher, you're right, you know, like ecosystems out in the wild, they can get thrown off, right? A predator is overhunted and then it gets thrown off, or maybe there's a natural disaster, or humans come in, right? Think about that ecosystem getting thrown off. So that can happen in your classroom. So you have to think about ways that you're maintaining your ecosystem and keeping it in balance and vibrant and and functioning. And so that is really what the book is about. And at the root of all of this is joy. And joy has to be at the root of all of this because what I saw was that we have we we took the joy out of teaching. And I think that's why it it's obvious that it's not working, right? We tried, we tried to be just about the data and just double down on STEM and test, test, test. And and what did that get us? Exactly. The scores are lower than they were when I started teaching, and they were complaining about the scores being low. So, what was all that for? What was that whole generation of obsession with STEM? Last time I checked, we're not any better in math and science than we were before. So we took the joy out of teaching. We know it doesn't work, and that's why this book makes a clear argument that joy has to be in the praxis. It can't just be a fun Friday, it has to be how we do things, it has to be baked in. So the book talks about all this theoretically, but because I'm a teacher first and I know how we roll, it breaks it down practically as well. Because at the end of the day, people want to know, okay, Deanna, that sounds nice, but how do I do that? So I try to lay it out for y'all.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Oh, and you laid it out very well.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

I had highlighted things, dog geared that book. And it is. It's like, tell me the stuff, tell me the goods, and how can I do it tomorrow? And you're like, okay, bet.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Read it. Let's go. It's like I know black people, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do I do?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yes, it's so well written. Thank you, thank you. And and you and I love how you even shared this doesn't have to overwhelm you in the sense of adding something in. It's already baked in. But again, if you don't have that joyful center within yourself, it cannot be actualized, like you said before. You have to start from you within. Because again, we are, I always say we are the window to our society, and our students are observing that window. And so if your window is mucky, honey, the kids can't see what's in in front of them. So that is so, so on point. Oh my gosh, where can we find your amazing stuff? I'm a huge fan of you.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

I've already said this a billion times, but I've been watching you on uh Instagram and reels, and and I I just like when you were like planting in your garden and you had my Jebba mug, I'm like, oh yeah, I just got my mug. I did, I did have your mug. That's right. I just got my mug. My name is in there. Oh my gosh. I need mug. Yes, I do have mug. Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

But yeah, so where can we find your amazing work? And you know I'll have it all in the show notes, but share again, where can we find you?

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Yes, yes. So I would love for y'all to grab a copy of Rooted Enjoy. You can get it at Barnes and Noble, Amazon, Target. And if you would like to support a black-owned business, Mahogany Books ships US wide. So check out Mahogany Books if you'd like to support an independent Black Book store. It is in stock in person, though, at Select Barnes and Nobles. And I will tell you, anytime I'm in a city and I get to the Barnes and Nobles, I do sign it. So there's a chance that, like, if you're especially if you're in Washington or California, if you go to Barnes and Noble, I probably signed the one unless somebody already got it, but I try to sign them in person. So that is where you can grab your copy of Rooted Enjoy. If you want more information just about like me and what I do and all this work, you can go to my website, Deonna Smith Consulting.com. I give lots of tips on Instagram. And I also have a YouTube channel appropriately named. That's just good teaching. And so I try to share strategies there as well. And you can follow me, like I said, on pretty much all of the socials, but that's where you can grab the book and more information on all of my work at Deanna Smith Consulting.com. And I would love to connect with you. Like I said, send me a DM, let me know what's going on. And I do also have a freebie for your listeners that will be in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

So if you are listening, get your freebie in the show notes. Love that. Yes, it will be all in the show notes. And yes, I just love your book. Love all the positive influence you have for us teachers and just giving us that keep hope alive. Like, don't give up, keep going. Do not give up. Our kids and our young people depend on us. And oh my goodness, Deanna, I could talk to you all.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

I know we could just chit-chat, girl. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Love everything about you. And thank you so much for being on the show again and sharing your insight, your wisdom, and that radical practice of joy. Thank you so much, Deanna.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Having me back. It's it's always so it's always so fun to meet folks like yourself, like like-minded folks. And I appreciate you for putting this out because this is what people need to hear. Like, we're looking for direction and inspiration, and you're doing it with this podcast. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Thank you so much, Deanna. And yes, listeners, viewers, if you'd like to learn more about Dr. Deanna Smith's work and all the things she's doing, it will be in the show notes plus that freebie. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please share this episode with an educator in your life. We all need to hear what Dr. Smith has to say. So until next time, keep building classrooms and communities and ecosystems rooted in culture, joy, justice, and belonging. I'll see you here, same time, same place. Bye bye. Bye, guys.