Kickoff Sessions
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Kickoff Sessions
#281 Richard Cooper: Why Most Men FAIL in Relationships
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Most guys are told to “just be nice” and “work harder.”
But that advice is ruining their relationships.
In this episode, we sat down with @EntrepreneursInCars — author of The Unplugged Alpha and one of the most influential voices in men’s self-development — to talk about why so many entrepreneurs sabotage their love lives without even realizing it.
Richard breaks down the uncomfortable truth:
- Why high achievers attract the wrong partners
- How losing frame kills desire
- What to look for (and avoid) when choosing a long-term partner
- And how to build a life that supports both business and relationships
This one’s for the founders, creators, and ambitious men who are tired of feeling like they have to choose between success and love.
If you want to build wealth without losing yourself (or your relationship), this is your playbook.
(00:00) Preview and Intro
(01:27) Why High Achievers End Up in Failing Relationships
(04:06) Beta-tization & The Degradation of Relationships
(06:16) Why Proximity, Familiarity & Exclusivity Can Kill Desire
(11:31) The More She Likes You, The Less It Costs You
(14:18) Should You Wait to Date Until You’re Rich?
(18:24) Why Women Are Attracted to 'Bad Boys'
(22:07) Green Flags in a Partner
(28:30) Has the Masculinity Pendulum Swung Back?
(30:23) Do Women Really Want to Prioritize Career Over Family?
(35:22) Why Simplicity & Polarity Work in Relationships
(38:05) How to Intentionally Lead in Long-Term Relationships
(41:52) Healthy Boundaries & Respect in Relationships
(44:19) Why Public Pedestalizing is a Mistake
(48:16) The Anti-Fragile Man Explained
(52:32) The Tate Brothers Influence
(58:57) How Men Build Trust Through Action
(01:00:49) Losing Male Friendships in Adulthood
There's certain things that women don't like that they want you to stop doing, and in certain scenarios, just because she doesn't like something doesn't mean that you stop doing it. They'll go to school for years. They'll frame degrees in mahogany with little letters after the name. They think they're important. They'll put on a masculine suit with padded shoulders so they make themselves look like men. They'll go and behave like men all day long and then they want to come home and be women, and it's like they have a hard time with that right.
Darren:If you want to build a successful business, you need a strong relationship behind it. Most entrepreneurs ignore this. They focus on money. They build the brand, but behind the scenes, their entire relationship is in chaos. In this episode, I sit down with Richard Cooper, entrepreneur and author of the Unplugged Alpha and one of the most unapologetic voices in men's self-development, to break down what actually works. We talk about frame leadership and building a relationship that backs your mission instead of breaking it. Let's get into it. Where I'd love to start is you look at high achievers, entrepreneurs that are crushing it, and you see more and more guys that end up in like failing relationships or in divorces. If you were to put your two cents on it, what you think? The reason is that these guys, who have a lot of things are put together, are in relationships that end up either crumbling or falling beneath them at some point I think if you want to narrow it down and keep it simple, it's one.
Richard:The first thing is a selection process is picking the right gal. And then the second thing is, even if you pick the right gal and you don't understand female nature, you will still have a very strong probability of her wanting to untie the knot or to leave the marriage. Take the kids, half your stuff. You know the typical sort of divorce grinder story that most guys go through. So those would be the two main things.
Darren:Let's dig into the selection part. How can you plan that out? Because, of course, it's easy to be like okay, you know this woman didn't work out and this guy didn't work out, but it works both ways too, right, Like, is the guy always there? Is the woman always there? Like, how do you think about that on a long off time horizon?
Richard:Um, I think for selection it's uh, it's time plus observation will give you some clarity, right, um? You need to observe the behaviors, watch what she says versus what she does. Um, of course, in my first book I talk about the? Um, the red flags that you want to try to avoid. Minimize as many as possible, if they exist. There's some of them that you could perhaps um have her work on Um in the second book, which comes out later on this year. I've got a chapter on green flags and sort of like the management of longterm relationships in there as well.
Richard:Um, so there's other components that you have to sort of continue to manage as time goes on.
Richard:Like everybody thinks, oh, you know you'll just get married in the eyes of a God or a certain religion or something like that, and because the covenants are all strong and you know family sets sort of boundaries and frames around, that it should all work out. You know you just do the right thing and you know she'll enthusiastically want to be with you in a perpetuity. And it doesn't usually work out that way because women are inherently I'm going to use the word difficult to manage over the longterm for most guys. Right, most, most guys don't understand female nature and it usually gets the best and that's why you'll see a lot of guys are like you know. She was enthusiastic and loved me and messaged me every day and we had monkey sex hanging from their chandelier like three times a day and it was awesome. And it's like the same guy seven years later, after a couple of kids, is sitting down on his computer Googling how do I get my wife to sleep with me?
Richard:or signing up for the only fans, girl, sort of thing. So there's, um, you know, so there's always going to be a standard degradation and the quality of the relationship over time. A lot of people argue. Well, that doesn't necessarily have to be true. Have to be true. Look at me, blah, blah, blah. It's perfect.
Richard:No, like, every relationship goes through some form of a degradation. There's, there's, there's this, uh, sequence of events that men go through, which is called beta tization, through a thousand concessions right Is what I've coined it and they essentially get to this point where they become less attractive to their wife over a prolonged period of time because they're saying yes to too many things, they're letting her get away with too many things. Um, women will constantly competency test men, right, like it's in their nature. If they weren't with the best guy that they could get a thousand years ago, it could spell death for her and her kids, right? So she's constantly testing you. You know she wants to make sure that you've got it figured out, right, you don to tell her exactly what step a, b, c and d is, sort of thing. But she has to feel like I'm gonna use the word, feel like you have it all figured out did you think?
Darren:do you think it goes both ways as well, though?
Richard:no, I think that's um, that's a modern trope, that a lot of um, modern feminists, or like media or bloggers, or even like youtubers, will start to say well, if it's good for the good, the gander, you know, if, uh, if it works for him, then what about her sort of thing?
Darren:and it's like it's a different just want to take one quick break to ask you one question have you been enjoying these episodes?
Darren:Because, if you have, I'd really appreciate if you subscribe to the channel so that more people can see these episodes and be influenced to build an online business this year. Thank you, I would say, like, not necessarily like the guy as in like a work for work for him and more so, like guys give up on their standards. Like I'm 28, right, a lot of guys that I went to school with that took nine to five jobs corporate jobs. They're like fat, broke, overweight, they're not like pushing on. So like these guys like are getting sloppy, right, yeah, and they get sloppy over time. So my kind of just uh, approach this was like do these these guys also just get lazy in a relationship too? Is that there's also a component of that whereby they're not actually like trying their best and trying to be a really fucking good guy, right, like you're into the gym boxing every 24 7, likewise, I want to hold myself to an exceptionally high standard, but I just know that that standard is not out there all the time.
Darren:Like that is.
Richard:It's a matter of fact, right yeah, I think we get comfortable with the. Known is what it boils down to. You know, you're familiar with each other. You just get comfortable and you kind of slide into habits and behaviors and do a little bit less. Um, you know I've said that there's three things that usually contribute to the countdown to the end of a relationship uh, proximity, familiarity and exclusivity. And the more of that you give her, the less likely it is that you're going to have a profoundly enjoyable relationship over a long period of time.
Darren:Can you expect?
Richard:Well, proximity is being close, right. So I get criticized for saying this, but it's the truth. The closer you are to each other, the more you know about each other. You're very familiar with your, you know your habits, um, you know, you get to know the schedule sort of thing, like one of the um. One of the most successful marriages that I've seen is run over 30 years.
Richard:A good friend of mine and I asked him you know, one day I said you know, what do you think is a? Is a contributor to the success of your marriage, cause they have genuinely like. If you see this couple, they're in love with each other. She adores him, you know. You can see her looking at him when he's talking about something and she has like a sparkle in her eye over him. And he said well, because this guy was an entrepreneur and he owned a toy company, so he was constantly flying around and going to Hong Kong and the Chinese factories and doing a lot of travel. He was out of the house about half of the month and he said probably the travel, probably the fact that we weren't close to each other for a lot of the months, and she basically did all the home stuff, you know, raising the kids, like the pink jobs, and he would go out and sort of do the blue jobs, like making it rain, making the connections, being influential, making money, solving problems, sort of things. So that's the proximity component of the equation.
Richard:The familiarity is like the more a woman knows about you again, your habits, your behaviors, where you are all the time, who you're with, what you're doing with who you're with, it erases some of the novelty.
Richard:It erases some of the unknown. There has to be a little bit of competition anxiety with women when it comes to a long-term relationship, because women want what other women want and if other women don't want you and other men don't want to be you, then she's going to have a hard time looking at you, going, oh, this guy's a giant, you know I, you know I love the man that I'm with, sort of thing. Um, so there's that element and then there's, of course, exclusivity, uh, which is boiling down to sexual exclusivity, and I think that whether you choose to exercise the option, uh, is not relevant. I think that the threat needs to exist, okay.
Richard:So whether it's real or imagined, the idea of him having options that he can exercise needs to exist and that's not a two-way street, by the way. That's a one-way street because men and women are completely different, so the last thing a man wants is to contemplate or think that she's off doing something with, with the, with the fact that if someone is not always there it just shows like, basically, the value of the relationship, right, because there's like absence makes the heart grow fonder, right?
Richard:So there are ways.
Darren:So, as a result, there's more of like a lore, there's more of imagination as well, as well coming into the relationship which is like oh, I'm excited for you to come back it two weeks, it's one week.
Darren:It's funny you said that because myself and my wife Elise she's American, I'm Irish, and we met just coming up to pre-covid initially, and when covid hit she was based in America and I was based in Ireland, and Ireland put a ban on Americans and Americans put a ban on Ireland. So we had to like figure things out. And it was like two months before you saw each other, three months before you saw each other, we like figured out, went to mexico at some point, then we went to thailand and then we went to bali and we had to figure out all this like random shit, but that's what like kept things really interesting because most people would have said long distance relationships didn't work, but it was the fact that I was focused on my podcast. I was was focused on. I was working in consulting at the time, would you believe, but that actually added to the relationship so much.
Darren:And that's an interesting dilemma, right? Whereas most people just move in with each other and then the standards drop and you become way too known with each other's different bad habits. Should I say?
Richard:Yeah, it's not often that a long distance relationship works, though, right, I think it only works where she sees you as her best option, right, that's, that's when she's willing to wait, that's when she's willing to travel to Mexico, that's when she's willing to travel to Thailand. So that's an interesting test. I think COVID was a bit of a test of your relationship at that time, unbeknownst to you, but the fact that she was willing to go to Mexico and go to Thailand, and, um, you know the more enthusiastic she was and the further that that that she went to facilitate those things. So, as an example, I mean if she would contact you unprompted every day, if she would ask for a FaceTime call every day, if she would travel to Mexico on her own dime, not asking you to pay for it, um, basically, the more a woman likes you, the less it's going to cost you.
Darren:You know, I can put it that way dude, that's such an interesting concept, let's dig into that because, it's funny because, uh, like I I always said like I met elise when I had like minus 10k my bank account and you'll find it funny, sorry, funny.
Darren:Uh. We were like we're going to meet somewhere and I had like minus 10k my bank account and you'll find it funny, sorry, funny, uh. We were like we're going to meet somewhere and I had like literally zero money, right like fuck all. I was super young, it's like 22 or something and I had to use a credit card to get there which was already in debt and I just made up that I had the cash.
Darren:I was like, fuck it, I'll figure it out so like at least it's like literally been there since like pre me doing anything, and now, many years later, like we're like very, very financially set and so on, but but it's never been. We like nothing has ever changed relationship wise in terms of like money, whereas like the initial reason why we liked each other or got together is still the initial reason, which is that we both enjoy like traveling freedom on our own schedule, like kind of just being like kind of like a little bit young and dumb uh like that's like we have a lot of banter that way, even though, like my business, I'm super fucking serious with like 20 employees and super stressful when I'm engaging in the relationship, it's more just like oh playful, does that make sense?
Darren:and she obviously supports in a business too and so on to foreign. You know I'll share some input every once in a while, so she's supportive, I would say.
Richard:But I'm saying this is a lot of variation.
Richard:Yeah, I was going to say, like you'll see this a lot with engagement rings, where a woman will insist that the ring has to cost a certain amount or has to be a certain size, right, I won't accept your proposal unless it's three carats, right? Well, that's what she's saying to a guy that she doesn't genuinely see as her best option. Because if she's really enthusiastic about the guy, you know, like I said, the more she likes you, the greater the discount, right? Enthusiastic about the guy? Uh, you know, like I said, the more she likes you, the greater the discount, right? You know she'll be happy with a one character or a half character, or a $2,000 ring or a promise ring or a piece of rubber band around her ring finger or a tattoo or something like that, think about it.
Richard:Right, I mean, you've seen this yourself, I'm sure.
Darren:Yeah, yeah, and I'm not saying my marriage is perfect, I'm definitely not saying that, I'm just saying it's interesting observation. Like we, our wedding was four people, right, like it was. Like it was like four people and the caterers were like a hundred dollars, some shit, you know, to keep it super simple, uh, because it was never about the thing. But okay, question for you off, this is so a lot of young entrepreneurs in this space like, okay, let's just talk about generations. My generation is obviously different. In your generation, it's never been easier for younger guys to make money, like literally with the access, right. So we have a lot of these young guys who make really fucking crazy money, but they obviously can't back it up in other aspects of their life, right, they're kind of falling in other aspects. So the common theme amongst young people is don't get into a relationship, don't get a girl until you have the bag, and then, when you have money, then you should go get a partner. What do you think about that?
Richard:that's interesting because there's really no cut and dry for that one. You know what I mean. Like I've heard people say to young men uh, don't get into a committed relationship or get married in your 20s. I've, I've, you know, I've heard stories about wait till your thirties. I don't know that there's an actual cut and dry, clear, best way to do it, but what I'll but what I'll say is that most guys don't understand women.
Richard:So I think you can, if you want to have a family, which really should be the only reason why you're going to live with a woman, or live in a way that looks like marriage to the government, to have children, to pass on your name and DNA, and even then there's other ways to do it. It doesn't have to be the cookie cutter way sort of thing, but I think that it's more important for a guy to, to build, to, to make something out of himself. You see, cause men and women are different, right, like men are success objects, women are beauty objects. Um, that's why you'll never see, uh, you know, the world's most beautiful woman on a swimsuit magazine or like, called by whatever uh list that's, you know, 45 years old. It's always like in their early twenties, like 22, 23, 24, something like that. Um, and it's also why you never see, you know, the world's most handsome man or most captivating man Like in the past, we've seen guys like, uh, the rock, uh, jason Statham, uh, who's the guy from star Trek next generation that?
Richard:The captain Jean-Luc Picard, uh, patrick, I can't remember his full name. He was in his fifties at that time, right. So that's why you often see more uh, successful, matured, season looking man, you know, hitting those lists. So I think that, for a guy, you have to make something out of yourself, and that's a man's job, whereas a woman's job is to preserve her value. Men, men, have to make value, if I can put it that way, and women must preserve their value.
Darren:How do you what? What's the action item there? So, like you're a young guy right and you're trying to figure this, figure this out, make money is big.
Richard:Make sure you're not a skinny dweeb or an overweight, obese uh, you know guy that's sitting around 400 pounds with bad knees and cardiovascular health. Um, so the optics of masculinity and health. Um, money is very important. It's always been important. Evolutionary psychology has studied this and every single study says the exact same thing A man with resources is much more attractive to a woman than a man without resources.
Richard:Conversely, women will also engage with broke guys that have no money but because they're high testosterone cues, alpha type of guy. Like. That's why they'll go to a nightclub or a bar and they'll want to be with. Like the guy that just got out of jail, right like this guy, luigi main manjion I can't remember how to pronounce his last name the guy that shot the uh ceo of the health care or the health insurance company in the states. That's why, when you see the video footage of the waiting area in the hallway at the courthouse, it's filled with women. This guy doesn't have a pot to piss in or a women to throw, or, sorry, he doesn't have a pot to piss in or or a window to throw it out of. He's in chains.
Richard:But these women are lining up to be with this guy because he's an alpha Chad, right, because he's demonstrated what's called hyper hyperistophilia. He has, he has a. He has a competency and capability to be lethal. And that's why women fall for criminals, right. Like you never see guys falling for murderous women that cut off their husband's dick and throw in the ditch or anything like that. You don't see that, but women will routinely, and the video footage is out there. You guys can go look it up on the internet, where there's an entire hallway filled with women waiting to catch a glimpse of this guy in the courthouse, right.
Richard:So it's a different game, like you know. There's so many different conversations to have with this, but it's a totally different game, you know, between men and women. But to the original question, men need to make something out of themselves and I think that they might figure that out at 25, they might figure it out at 35 or 45. But when they figure it out, that's when I think they're in a position to invite a woman into their life and maybe, you know, build something out of it, whereas women have a different set of objectives, and they hate when I say this, but they have to preserve their value, they have to preserve their purity. There's absolutely no man that gets married that says, gee, I wish my wife had fucked a hundred other guys before we got married.
Darren:So true, man. Just going back on that point, just to add to it, did you ever see Mug Shododdies the Instagram page?
Richard:No.
Darren:Oh man, you'll have some laugh at this. So basically, there's a one guy called Jeremy Meeks and he Meeks. He was basically this model guy, okay, so he was out of jail. It's a mug shots of people and this guy, uh like, good looking guy, whatever face tattoos and everything, he was put on that page and then from there, gucci, all the different brands, came to him to actually become a model, this guy has one, one point one million followers right now I think I've seen that guy.
Richard:He's the dark-skinned guy with the light colored eyes and the teardrop tattoo.
Darren:Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like what other world would that exist, that that's actually possible? It's just crazy.
Richard:Yeah, you'll never see guys lining up to want to marry or model up a woman that cut off her husband's dick and got thrown in jail for six months.
Darren:I think a big thing for me was the fact that, like, I had gone through the traditional route of like, oh, go to school, get good grades, do all that stuff, even though I got to leverage myself up to fuck to try to pay for it and everything, and then I realized that that still put me in the bracket, okay, so let's give it context.
Darren:So, uh, my background's in bodybuilding, but like I'm a small guy, I'm like five, seven on a good day, so like I don't like excel in like a club, for instance, right. So I remember just being like a normal guy, but just like you know, being shredded and shit when I want to be shredded, but not being like known for anything. And then I remember then they're like 21, 22, being like I am not going to be distinguished in any other way. I'm going to need to get like super jacked, get like bigger. I'm going to need to build something. I'm going to need to like differentiate myself so that makes sense. I need to have that unique differentiator it's like oh at least darren is x.
Darren:And then I think what's so interesting is that for guys it's funny because guys get into the gym for chicks initially and then you stay in the gym because you just fucking love training. What happened me then from training and then from even on the business side, was you almost forget about that side to some degree because you're just so focused on the goal and what you like and that almost attracts more people towards you as a result and now I don't even recognize, obviously right right now.
Darren:But I'm saying it's an interesting observation where you look at someone like chris williamson we talked about earlier, like good looking english chap or whatever, like chicks love him because he's just so obsessed with what he does, so, like being obsessed with things draws people to him too, right he's.
Richard:He's very successful, influential and talks to interesting people, but he's also a handsome man as well.
Darren:But there's an interesting point there of authority through association. I should talk about this quite a lot which is like the fact that, like me and you are chatting to people like I hate this, but it's true, Like people put associations being like, oh, like there's like a tribalistic instinct that's kicking in, that someone's like, oh, Richard's associated with Darren, Darren's associated with Richard, whether we talk to each other or not, ever again Does that make sense? It's like that's how, like just like tribes work and so on and so forth.
Richard:So I still have people that reach out to me because of podcast interviews that I did with Andrew and Tristan Tate years ago. I don't think I've. I've had him on a podcast for since 2017 or 18 or something like that, and I still have people that say, hey, you know, can you introduce me? Or hey, you know, can you make sure this message gets him? It's like yo, I don't work for them, Like I. Like, I have his number, I'm not going to give it to you.
Darren:Yeah, I remember that podcast where he's like sitting in his uh, he's sitting in his downstairs living room and there's like a Ferrari or some shit behind them and you guys are just talking about Porsches for like an hour straight. Yeah, okay, you mentioned the green flags, so what's top three green flags that someone should look out for in a partner and in a relationship? That's an interesting question.
Richard:I have a chapter that my editor is working on right now that he has to send back to me. I have a chapter that my editor is working on right now that he has to send back to me. So, off the top of my head, um, I would say one of the interesting ones is when she adopts your beliefs, political opinions, musical tastes and hobbies. Um, I've I've had, you know, conversations and dated women that overtly say that they're vegan and I'll just tell them, like, look, that's not going to work for me. You know, if I'm going to cook a steak, I'm not going to make you, you know, beans or anything like that, or fava beans or something like that. So, um, you know, you're gonna have to let that go and meat's going to have to be part of the diet. And, okay, you know, like, basically, if they love you, if they like you enough, if they see you as a strong option, they'll let go of the silly. You know, uh, I want to protect animals and not eat animal protein or be a certain way, or they might adopt your musical taste. Right, they'll let go of musical tastes that they, uh, prefer, like I've, you know, I've been driving with a gal and you and she'll be singing along to a song. It's just a silly song or something like that. She's like what do you think of this? And I'm like it kind of sucks here, let me put something good on for you. And I'll put on some Led Zeppelin or something like that. And she's like, oh, I haven't heard this song. This is actually really good. And now all she wants to listen to Led Zeppelin. Um, political tastes. You know, she'll let go of the I love Camilla Harris stuff and be like, actually, you know what? I think you're right, some of the stuff that Trump says actually makes sense. You know, I, I, you know I kind of like these people. You know it's so strange with women because they often say you know, I want an alpha male, or I want a strong man that can lead, and then they'll do and behave in the very way that repels those strong alpha type males, right? So, um, yeah, watching her adopt your policies, your beliefs, your musical tastes, your political opinions, that's always been a very interesting one to me. I think another really good one, too, is, you know, she's willing to make you look good, right? So I'll give you an example.
Richard:You know, I've been in an environment where I was at a dinner, uh, once, and, um, the people opposite there was two women and they were sort of grilling my girl on our relationship, Right Cause, it sort of started to catch wind of what I'm all about my book and you know, stuff like that Um, and I was talking to somebody else over here and then I sort of came back to the conversation like hey, you know, what are you guys going on about, sort of thing.
Richard:And they said something to me about like well, why wouldn't you marry her, or why wouldn't you live with her, or something like that, and not in a friendly way or in a curious way, but almost like in a condescending tone.
Richard:And I thought to myself, okay, self, this is. You know, this will be an interesting test. And I just kind of looked at her and I said why don't you tell them? Why, right, and she's, you know, she's the whole. Oh well, I don't want to get involved, I don't want to say anything sort of thing, and to me that was like a big fail. It's like if you love me and if you adore me and you see me as your best option, you're going to do what it takes to make me look good in front of other people, not just sort of like step aside and just be like, oh, I don't want to participate in this conversation, right? So these are like some of the observations that I've made over time and I've got a whole bunch more in the chapter. I don't want to go through them all to give it all away and stuff, but you know, you guys can find the book towards the end of the year.
Darren:Before we go any further, I have one question for you. Do you for your business? Well, I've put together an entire system how anyone can use a podcast to generate more leads for their business, and the best part is, you don't even need a podcast to get started. I've created an entire guide and framework for you to be able to get more guests, more clients, more customers, more people in your pipeline and generate more revenue. This exact system is available right in the description down below, and you'll be able to leverage a podcast to generate more leads for your business and be able to increase your exposure, increase your authority and increase your influence in your industry. So check that out right down below. It's a very interesting point, though, because it works both ways. You would also want to elevate them and showcase them to other people too, right, and I think that's a yeah, you don't want to make her look bad.
Richard:yeah, you don't want to make her look bad. I mean, if you want to, invite her into your life.
Darren:You don't want to make her look bad either. Exactly it's like, presentable, like everyone is presentable. You're presentable, they're presentable. I think they a good kind of litmus test, is like you could almost like leave them with your mates, chat with your mates, whatever, and then you would come back to the conversation with you being positioned better at the end of it, everyone's like, oh, it's like it's hurt person's uh opinion almost to some degree it's.
Richard:It's really nice when you have a woman that makes you look good in front of other people. I don't like I shouldn't have to do this for myself all the time. I think that if a woman truly loves you, then she'll support your mission. She'll be about what you're about and even if she doesn't like something I you know, she wants to get married. You know, for example, uh, even if she doesn't like something, I you know, she wants to get married. You know, for example, uh, even if she doesn't like something, she understands why and will support. You know your position and that boundary and tell the other people why, sort of thing in a favorable way, in a favorable light, sort of thing it also increases your status to some degree when you have someone that's like they're taking care of you so I'll give you an example and like.
Darren:Again, the only anecdotal experience I have is my own and my wife, uh, for our business. So we have like a media company. We run like podcasts for companies and founders and so on, so forth. But, to keep it simple, we do in-person dinners. So I did one in new york when I finished a new york trip. I think I dropped you a message around that previously. Oh, actually, no, I knew you were in toronto. That's the reason why I didn't. Um, but basically we just did an in-person dinner and my wife was there and we're at this long table and there's people all different founders, all different company owners, all different executives and elise is kind of like almost talking about like what we do outside of everything and I'm like oh yeah, we have like this, we have this, we have this, whatever.
Darren:And then overall increases, like the, just the general awareness of what we do and my positioning and I'm not just like this random business guy on the internet, right, and it's like these small social cues, the small nuances, which works really well. Does that make sense overall? So it's non-tangible, but if you, if you can look through, like the fucking lens, you can see like, oh, there's a massive like or a way to this, like it is a huge benefit to everybody as a result yeah, yeah, absolutely something I want to ask you about, too, is like so when our first podcast came out, which is like two or three years ago, that was when like woke bs and woke media was really blowing up right.
Darren:That was like kind of like peak craziness. Now we kind of see like the pendulum swing the other way, which is like more that kind of well, more like the masculine routes being like, more like shown again right, like Trump is like bringing that out more. I feel like it's. I feel like it's coming out more naturally as a result and like with Twitter and even with like yeah, so especially with twitter. Actually, how do you think about relationships now and generally the, the overall idea of it, I think at a higher level, versus like before it was like oh, like you know, women are going to work, they're going to be executives, they're going to be at this top level, and like that was like what was kind of pushed. Do you think that's going to kind of swing back now, or is it too?
Richard:early? Not really, no, I think. I think as a guy, you're always going to run into the element of the boss girl. Um, you know the strong, independent woman. Um, you know you go girl, uh, sort of thing, put off family.
Richard:Uh, you know, doing anything for a man like they still hear the same message, like women should never do anything for the express pleasure of a man they still hear that same messaging not in those exact words, but you know, if you can sort of distill it like that's what the female primary social order is still, sort of like telling women, put off having kids, you can have it later on in life, um, you can have kids at 41 if you want, right, there's an abundance of women, of women on dating apps in their late thirties and forties that are like open to having children or wanting to have a family, and you know stuff like that. So there's still, you know, there's still believing the feminist lie sort of thing. So I don't think much of it has changed dramatically that I can see. I would say that like the pendulum hasn't swung yet, I think it's still swinging in that direction yeah.
Darren:Do you think, though, that women who want to prioritize their career and not have children like actually want that, or they don't want that? Like what's your thoughts?
Richard:I think, inherently, at some point they come to the realization that that belief that they have, or that they thought they had, it isn't true. And the biological ticking, that feeling that they have, cause you can't. You can't override millions of years of DNA, like, like it's hardwired, and like it's hardwired in women to to have children, to find a high value man and raise those kids. Um, that's why they're here. The reason why we're here is to scatter seed right, um, you're never going to change that. You know, despite men telling other men, just go your own way, avoid women, they're all horrible. And women telling other women, you know, put off a family, put off, um, you know, finding a good man, or locking down a good man, or or don't follow his boundaries, you know you do whatever you want, you'll find a guy that will accept. You know those, those boss girls, sort of tendencies, sort of thing. So there's still a big divide, you know, between the sexes. You still see men and women sort of struggling to come together. But I think that we're better together than what we are apart. It's just that there's this narrative, that sort of brainwash, both sexes.
Richard:Yeah, it's very difficult to do because I mean, they've you know they've got, you know they'll. They'll go to school for years. They'll frame degrees in mahogany with little letters after the name. They think they're important. They'll put on a masculine suit with padded shoulders so they make themselves look like men. They'll go and behave like men all day long and then they want to come home and be women and it's like they have a hard time with that, right, um, you know I've dated a lot of professional women.
Richard:My ex-wife is a lawyer. You know I found that they have a very hard time going out into the workforce putting a big dent in the universe, or a small dent in the universe even, um, and then wanting to be in the frame of a strong, masculine man, what, what? What they usually find is they try to find a close approximate sorry, a close approximation of a you know, if I can put it this way some kind of an equal. It's like, oh, I have a corporate gig working for such and such company, making X number of dollars a year, and Bill uh makes X amount of dollars working for this company. So you know, I found my equal, or you know something along that line. But women don't really want an equal. They want to be able to look up to a giant. They want to be with a man. That's better. That's their hypergamous nature.
Darren:I saw that so much in the nine to five world because you had people in consulting and then there's like a consulting you know consortium of like three or four companies and it's oh, but this person works at kpmg, or this person works at mckinsey, or whatnot.
Darren:Um, but but what I what I found in that regard. I didn't mean to interrupt you, sorry. It was just the fact that, like they're both, they're both just fighting for the same thing, and then there's, there's just an absence, there's an absence of everything, because, yeah, there's no there's no clearly defined masculine energy.
Richard:There's no clearly defined feminine energy. Like you'll see this a lot, you know, with women on dating apps and they'll, you know, message you or they'll say something like uh, you know, so what do you do for a living? And they'll give you their full resume, something along the lines of uh, I have a degree in ai generation and a bachelor's of law, the blah blah and a I don't know a 10 year old daughter and I have a divorce for 12 years. And like there's again, you know, there's no guy that you know thinks themselves gee, you know when they're painting the ideal picture of the woman they want to be with.
Richard:I want a woman that has a degree in AI, with a law degree and an 11 year old daughter, and has been divorced for such and such year and looking for a committed, long-term relationship. It's like, like they're basically describing a man and that's what makes men attractive to women. So they think in their heads well, if I describe what makes men attractive to women, to a man, because I've accomplished these things, then I'll hook this guy. And it's like no, most of these guys just want to hear I'm beautiful or see, you know, pictures of beauty. Uh, you know they're beautiful, they're feminine, they love cooking you a fantastic meal and um doing sweet and fun things like I couldn't agree more.
Richard:It's not relevant because women don't share their pot of gold with men, and I think men have, men are starting to realize that if I was compared to even my own wife, like super, super, super feminine stays at home.
Darren:Doesn't compete with me on anything polar opposite to me, like literally polar opposite.
Darren:I'll tell you a funny story. So I traveled from here to Dubai quite a lot for podcasting. I brought all my equipment. It was a shit show man. I brought like four cameras, all the light work, got everything set up, landed on a Saturday, like recorded all day, stayed up all night, was just running off like caffeine and nicotine for 24 hours. And I rang Elise and I was like, oh, like, how was your Saturday? And she was like, oh, so busy. She was like I was painting our dog's birthday sign and I couldn't decide between baby blue or like maroon.
Darren:She was like I took me like two hours in the art store. And I was like perfect, perfect Go back and do that and take your time on this weekend. You know, and I think that's why it works well in my instance, right, I saw a perfect illustration of this a few weeks ago.
Richard:So I was on a yacht trip, so I did this catamaran trip down in the British Virgin Islands. Uh, mastermind yachts and um, we all do the intro at the beginning like, hey, who are you and why are you here? And I listened to the couples speak. I'm I'm always very, very attentive and there was one couple that sort of started. You know, he was 25, she was maybe 21. I think she was a physical therapist or something like that. And you know she was talking about her accomplishments and, uh, you know she loves physical therapy and the working and how she helps athletes and blah, blah, blah sort of thing. And, you know, wants to get her next level up, whatever. Um, but there was no acknowledgement of him, the relationship or anything like that.
Richard:Then there was another gal who had been with a guy for 10 years and her soundbites were something along the lines of hi, I'm so-and-so and um, you know I've been with uh Matt for whatever so, and um, you know I've been with uh Matt for whatever. Um, he's basically retired me, I'm looking forward to becoming a mother and his wife and raising our kids and I basically do whatever he tells me to do and I help him out with his tasks, right? It's like huge difference between the two. And guess which couple is still together a few weeks later, right? The one where she wants to become a wife and a mother and, you know, does whatever he tells her to do. And the other couple with the boss. Babe, they broke up. I just found out recently.
Darren:Man, it's crazy. I'll tell you another funny story on that. I love the polar opposite of it, because being in the the space, I, I see I see the contrast quite a lot. Uh, like a big thing for me was obviously again retire my wife, whatever that means, you know, just taking care of her, basically. And uh, the other day I was like hey, can you just please help me like take a photo of these receipts that we need from my accountant here, because I have a portfolio company in bali and I was like I just need like it's fucking boring as fuck, but I need to take all photos of all these receipts. And she's like, yeah, happy, happy to happy, as because she used the card Like she used the card all the time.
Darren:I'm like, just if you don't mind when you take, when you use the card, just take a photo of the receipt, upload it to Google drive, so the accountant has it. She's like fantastic, and for food, that's the end of it. Like we both don't party, we don't go out and everything you know, and I just think it's it's just simple, like it's just like a simpler way because like the essence is actually on the relationship. Again, I'm not saying things are perfect 100, but I but like I'm actively working on it, like that's why that's a big thing.
Darren:I'm saying here is like I want to always be working on it to try to get better, just like I work on my fitness, just like I work on the business right. Um, how do you think about that? Like, do you think that guys and women together, collectively, exclusively or individually, should be like consciously looking at their relationship and then looking at gaps and trying to improve it?
Richard:she won't do it.
Darren:You have to lead that you have to know what you're doing. Do you think that should be done?
Richard:I think, as a guy, if you want to stay married for a long time and raise your children to adults and yeah, definitely how do you think about going about doing that?
Richard:it's tough, um, that's. That's a lot of what my follow-up book's about is, sort of like maintaining that over the long term, um, so, so I'm going through the process of like itemizing that and making sure the chapters are as complete as possible. So there's there's quite a few steps, but there's an intentionality that that that has to exist in a man's head in a relationship at all times. You can't relax as a guy. You know the guys that relax. They start sitting on the couch watching sports, yelling at the tv with cheeto dust on their beard and their fat gut and, um, you know, she's out with her friends complaining about what a dork or a lazy guy, that he is right.
Richard:And when they start getting to that point, like when there's contempt in the relationship, one for the other, then that's the clock that ticks down to the end. Contempt is it. Is it? You know, when you start hearing one of the people in the relationship say something like you know he's a loser or she's a bitch, or something like that, you know it's, um, it's going to end at some point probably.
Darren:How else can you maintain a relationship at a very high level?
Richard:You again, you know, without getting to the to all the specific details, cause I want to make sure that I that I outline it correctly and orderly in the book you, you have to be intentional. You like small things that most guys don't contemplate, like. I'll give you an example. Um, she says to you hey, you know, my friend contacted me and I want to go see uh, I don't know this band 3000 miles away and I got a free ticket and you're in a relationship, she's committed to you and her friend's a guy.
Richard:It's like one of those things where you have to say to her look, um, not wise, that's an unwise choice. You really shouldn't even be asking me a question like that. You know I'm not gonna be in a relationship or take a woman seriously that wants to travel with another guy to go see a rock concert where there's alcohol, drugs, you know all kinds of stuff that have. Like, why would you even ask me that question? And start getting curious and, you know, pushing back in that sense. But you should never really get to that point, right, like she should never really even think about asking you a question like that.
Richard:Like, um, so it's one of those very small things out of hundreds that you sort of have to be aware of and manage properly, like girls nights out. You know, even if it's like you know we're going to get together with the girls from work and we're going to have dinner and maybe go out afterwards, then I would just say to her okay, have fun at dinner, but I expect you to come home after dinner. I'm not having my woman out at a nightclub, Right, and she should be. Okay. That sounds great Like. No, no protesting. But if you start getting things like oh, why are you controlling, why are you insecure? You know controlling why you're insecure, you know stuff like that. I'm not controlling, I'm not insecure. If you want me to care about you, if you want to be in a relationship with me, I'm not having somebody that I care about doing things that could put the relationship at jeopardy.
Darren:If you were truly committed, you wouldn't even think of those things, correct.
Richard:But women are told today to behave like men, right? So we're going to go out and have dinner with the girls, then go out to the bar or the club afterwards, right?
Darren:it's like having tinder downloaded and going through it, but not meeting up with someone. It's like if you want or committed, you wouldn't be doing that in the first place yeah, right exactly it's. It just shouldn't be coming into like what's focal is causal, so like if someone is intentionally doing something like that, then they're putting themselves in that scenario. Yeah, and there's, there's something that's beyond done there, like they have to undo that process. Yeah, at a high level. What else is coming up in that new book like that? You're really focusing on that.
Richard:You really want people to acknowledge and really grasp the idea with going forward um, some of the areas that I lean into are like the like there's certain things that women don't like that they want you to stop doing and, in certain scenarios, just because she doesn't like something doesn't mean that you stop doing it, you know? If you know what I mean, right.
Richard:Give an example. Um, well, I mean, here's a simple one. Um, you know, why don't you post me on your social media, right? Well, because I'm a public figure. There's unhinged weirdos on the internet. Why would I post somebody that I love on social media to the world and say, hey, this is my girl, or, you know, even your children. I see that all the time. You know, people use their children for social media clout, and I don't understand that. Right? Like, if you love your children, why would you say, hey, this is what my child looks like, go find her and do something nefarious, like that's basically what you're opening the door to, right? So it's like that's a boundary that I have. I'm not going to post you on social media because I don't want unhinged weirdos bothering you or adding complexities to my relationship, and that's just the way that it's going to be right.
Darren:Just almost like you're having a reason why you're not doing something, like almost just understanding why. But I think most guys don't have a reason why they don't do things though right, like if they have bad habits or something. They don't have the justification as the winner after.
Richard:I think for a lot of women, they automatically assume, if you don't showcase them or put them up on a pedestal on your social media or praise them on their birthday or Valentine's day or anniversary, that you don't love them or that you're hiding them and whatever. It's like all of that stuff? It's just blah, blah, blah, right, like. That's just like the continuous narrative, right, and it's funny because whenever you see it and I'm sure you've seen this and maybe some of your audience has seen this too, but you'll see it a lot of the time on something like Facebook, where a guy will put her up on a pedestal happy fourth or eighth anniversary to my beautiful wife. Without her, I'd be nothing. Um, you know, she's my other half, she's the boss, she's, uh, you know, I'm so lucky to have her. Um, I don't know, she's out of my league, like hashtag's out of my league, like hashtag, like out of my league or some shit like this. And I go like this every time I see that and then I'll click her social media and there's nothing. It's crickets, right, or it's a photograph of her on their anniversary, right, like, not them together, just her sort of thing, right, um, so that's an incredibly bad look.
Richard:You know that's a. That's not a good look and that's something that you have to be aware of. As a guy, right, like you should, you should protect her. You should love the woman. I mean, obviously you know if you love her, but you shouldn't be putting her up on the pedestal and worship me like, uh you know, if you treat her like a celebrity, she's going to treat you like a fan, right? So if you pedestalize her but you're not getting anything reciprocated or she's not even offering that to you from the get-go, it's like you have to be wise about these things and see how you know these, these pieces move right and manage that as well.
Darren:I think there's like a relationship If you were to put onto a onto like a graph, like the guys that post about their like Valentine's day, like the more that they post, it's almost like the worst relationship that they actually have, the weaker the relationship actually is. Yeah, I mean, I actually mean my wife always joke about that.
Darren:Like I know guys that are like in horrific relationships yeah extremely like negative, like fucking up their life, fucking up their business and everything. But then they'll post being like oh my god, like this girl's like so amazing, here's our flowers.
Richard:Like it's crazy, I make a joke of it like around halloween or christmas, where you drive around and you know, you see like elaborate christmas decorations, you know, for example. Or or halloween decorations with a bale of hay and the big uh, like it's all orchestrated, it's very fancy and elaborate. You can tell that they spent hours, if not like an entire weekend, putting this thing together. And, honestly, man like you can walk by that guy's house and just think to yourself yeah, they're not fucking, because if they were, why do they have so much time to put three days worth of work into some decorations, right?
Darren:yeah, yeah for sure, and this is this is no connection, because I think a big thing I've noticed from like leaving like the western world, and I think that'd be an interesting conversation as well. Just my observations being in like the east for like five years, is that a lot of the things that you see, especially around a christmas and like celebrating christmas if you're not religious which a lot of people are not is that it's like a fucking, it's like a band-aid or like putting a plaster over a problem, and I noticed this with like yeah, you'll see it.
Richard:With, like the christmas sweaters, like the like the family photos, you know, the christmas sweaters, the christmas pajamas and stuff like that and the guy sitting there wearing the most dorky outfit, looking like an absolute clown the fucking presents dude, all that kind of stuff.
Darren:Like it's again, it just shows like the weakening of the relationship. But I think you know not to be like, not like blame the west, but I think consumerism does have a big play on that in terms of like, oh, like. You need to have this, you need to, you need to like prove, to your person that you need that, something like that, some bullshit, right?
Darren:we love to talk challenges whereas, like for the last couple years, I've had like no christmas tree, I've had like no like presents. My wife, we just fucking. We usually do something during christmas, because in asia, like, they don't really celebrate christmas, so they're might like do like a fucking spa day or something, but we do together like and that's it, that's just that's basically it.
Darren:So it's just like any normal day, and I don't know. I just think it's very interesting to observe, because I grew up in that world whereby you know like super toxic parents, like fucked up relationship, like screaming abuse, all that bullshit that it was almost like oh, christmas was like, when you pretended that everything was okay and it was 10 times worse.
Darren:Like 10 times worse, that way so I think I've almost had like a, a reaction to that whereby I've gone like the opposite. I'm like I want none of that none of that, and I think it actually gives me anxiety. Thinking of that, I'm actually it's funny because my birthday is on saturday and at least it's like, oh, like, what do you want to do? And I was like nothing I don't want to fucking do anything. Why do I like I don't want a fucking presence? You?
Richard:I'm 29.
Darren:I'm 29 though, as in, I'm good, I'm fine, let's just go for like a steak in the evening or something, you know. Yeah, it's interesting dude. Some other things I want to really really want to dive into. I want to make sure I didn't I didn't miss anything here.
Darren:It was uh, you spoke about the anti-fragile man and the different scenarios from fragile, robust and anti-fragile. What came up to think about that? What was the idea behind that concept? The majority of my guests run content businesses. They've used content as the main element of their business to drive more revenue and build their influence online.
Darren:We've been doing this through a podcast for many years. We have many guests, clients and even customers use a podcast as their main source of driving more revenue for their business and building their influence online, and we're offering a handful of spots to book in a call with our team to learn how you yes, you can leverage a podcast to generate more revenue for your business and drive your influence online. Many of our clients and customers start from nothing, but each one of them are action takers and they want to learn more about how to build a podcast and a brand right around their business. So if you want to learn more and you're really interested in building a podcast, check out the link down below and book in a free call with our customer success manager and he will guide you into how you can build and generate more revenue from your podcast this year.
Richard:I mean you can apply the concept to a lot of areas of your life. It's a great book. The book's called Anti-Fragile and it illustrates how chaos affects culture, society, religion, your life. You know personally stuff like that. Um, but chaos is going to come at you as a man right Like um, there's always some difficulty in a man's life. We always have some sort of a fire to put out and you know, the question that you got to ask yourself is when chaos arrives in your life, do you become better as a result of it or do you become worse? And if you can improve the um, the circumstances, and level up, you know, to a to a stronger, more robust version of yourself as a result of chaos, like you can use COVID as a good example.
Richard:Um, I, I, during my podcast, often drop a call and link and you know people will call into the show and ask questions and I had a lot of people around that time going. You know I work for a company. It's a good job. You know I've got a mortgage and a family to take care of and they're shoving this untested, experimental jab down my throat. I have to take it. Um, you know my wife's telling me I have to take it, but I don't really want to take it. I don't really see the point. I'm healthy. I don't really need it.
Richard:What do you think, rich? And it's like well, you structured your life in such a way that you're fragile. You have to do what the College of Physicians says. You have to do what the Upper Canada Law Society says. You have to do whatever the government body says, the military body that you're in. Like. A lot of people just quit their, their jobs, and I think the people that quit their jobs and moved on was a strong demonstration of I'm anti-fragile and I will become better as a result of this, and many of them did. You know. They maybe started up a business or they moved on to a better paying job where that wasn't a requirement, um, but a lot of people, because they're fragile, ended up having to comply, bend the knee and they did what they were told to do, and some of them are suffering as a consequence of that today.
Darren:It's crazy, right, because that rise from COVID really just proved everything. It really proved like, it really showed character at the end of the day. It just showed true character, like whether you're going to bend the knee and fall over, or like make something of yourself. I think that was the big turning point for a lot of people whether how, how the rest of their life was going to play out and I know a really good example of anti-fragility.
Richard:I think you could use the tape brothers, um you know, because they've they've been hit with everything and they've only become more popular and more robust as a consequence of that yeah, man, and I think they they set the tone for so many different things.
Darren:If you think about it, they had a huge impact on me. I don't give a shit what people say, they had a massive impact on me and, uh, I've, I've, you know, I've spoken to a lot of their mates, I've interviewed a lot of them as well, um, over the years, and I've had a huge impact. And it's just because I think this is kind of has a nice segue into what you do when meeting up with guys in the community that you've built and everything. It's just that there there was no, there was nobody there before we went through that wave of just extreme wokeism. It was just getting worse and worse.
Richard:There wasn't anybody there before.
Darren:There was nobody as loud before there was nobody as loud, but the way that they set the brand up was like cool it was. It was like oh, like this is like cool you know people can really resonate with it.
Darren:Um, I guess there's like a lot of guys in isolation that probably you were familiar with or you've seen, but I guess, like they just hit the narrative so well, they're like this is a narrative, these are the pain points. It was perfect, and whether it's engineered or organic or a semi combination of both, it doesn't really matter, because what they hit was completely accurate. There's no two ways about it. You know, it was just completely. It opened up like a massive gaping hole. I think that became such a big. You know you had the war room and then one of my friends, jack I think you might know Jack Hopkins as well Really good guy. He started a new elite. Then that really started the snowball of oh shit, guys are super lonely. What are we going to do, literally? What are we going to do about it? Yeah, how have you seen that? That effect, let's say even your community and the growth of yours, because, dude, you've been smashing this for so many years yeah, I started creating um communities for men 2016 or 17.
Richard:I started using patreon back then, but then I saw how woke they were and how they would uh treat people that they disagreed with and de-platform them. So I sort of had to build my own ecosystem around it. Um, but I'm always encouraging guys that are asking for it to join my community right there. You know, they're always like hey, you know, where do I find other strong, virtuous, competent men that are doing something, that are influential and successful, and it's like well, you can, you can go and you know, create your own community and find people and invite them into it. Or you can join one. You know you can. You know you can buy your way into a room, sort of thing. So that's what I've created.
Richard:And you know we have different tiers. Uh, there's different information in the different communities. There's different types of events in the different communities. Like you know, if you get into kind of a more entry level one, then you might be doing things like um, a Tough Mudder, or going to San Diego and doing some Navy SEALs training or something like that. Or boxing um sort of testing yourself that way, and there's. Or boxing um sort of testing yourself that way. And there's, you know, there's chill out elements of it too as well.
Richard:Um, you know, you get into the higher level tiers and you might end up on a super yacht in the Mediterranean or on Richard Branson's you know, uh, necker Island. You know, I was there a few weeks ago. Um, you know, with other entrepreneurs and sort of like networking in that sense. So, um, guys should not hesitate to lean into what it is that they're looking for and actually take action. I think the vast majority of men they're like yes, I want to find strong, virtuous men and, and you know, do more with my life and network and level up. And it's like cool. Um, you know, here's a website you know, go and join. Oh, that's too much money. I don't want to spend that kind of money to go and do it. Okay, so you're not serious right?
Darren:Yeah, dude, I always say you have to pay with your wallet to make the change. Yeah, I don't give a shit. If it's a dollar, it's a dollar. There has to be an exchange of value for you to actually get off. To get off Cause you don't value it. I've had clients before that had some things for free. How many of your friends do you know of when you were younger you could have shared with them some information would change their life and you probably did but you're generally not paying attention, you're just listening.
Darren:Exactly, and you're just like viewing and you're like, oh, fuck it, like it's okay, I might just like unlock or whatever. But if you did, I've made an investment in a program recently changes in the company and I just knew I was like a lot of money, I was paid, done whatever. But um, I think, uh, I think you man, you'd really like bali. I think you should actually consider just even coming here, even running a retreat here, like because a lot of retreats are done here, a lot of like, uh, you know male, there's like amazing.
Richard:we do almost all of ours in north america right now. I got too many family obligations here so to travel for like three or four weeks doesn't really make sense, so we keep most of them here, but we'll but we'll certainly build it out from from that in the future. The core audience that we have is in Canada and the United States.
Darren:Even yourself, you wanted to even come for a break. Like the. The quality of gyms here, the fighting here, the food here is exceptional. Like the quality of gyms here, the fighting here, the food here, uh, is exceptional. Like it's really good quality, like really good son, really good people and everything you know. Um, so what do you think guys are are really uh lacking, though, because if you think about like what's that core driver?
Darren:because I find like that, a lot of those groups though, that they don't even teach them anything, they're just putting them together with people, right?
Richard:Yeah, um, yeah, you have to teach people things. So I'll give you an example. One of the staple events that we do now is we've got 32 people coming up in two months to Toronto Pearson. Then we're going to drive them up to Algonquin Park, which is a provincial park up here, which you think okay, whatever provincial park, how is? Is that anything? Okay?
Richard:Well, we're going to put all of your stuff in a canoe and then you're going to canoe in about 18 kilometers portage over some difficult terrain with rocks and roots and trees and rapids and rivers and stuff, and then you're going to have to set up a camp and then you're going to have to cut down trees and get wood for fire, um, and then, and then and then sort of thing.
Richard:Right, it's like um, there fire, um, and then and then and then sort of thing. Right, it's like um, there's a lot of moving parts to it and there's some things I'm not even going to talk about, but there's, but there's a lot of interesting, you know, components of it that everybody, by the time they're done with that weekend, it's like this is the best thing I've ever done, right, and that's one of our least expensive trips. I think that one's like around $3,000, you know, for the uh, for the entire experience, so they're not even that expensive. It's just like you know. You get an opportunity to go and test yourself with other men and do really interesting things.
Darren:It's guys bond through really difficult times.
Richard:You have to do things like men bond over doing things. You know the. You know I read this um study once where I was talking about the reason why women will sit and talk opposite each other on a table and a lot of the times men seem to do better when we sit side by side, right, and it's because we would go out and hunt and there's a saber tooth tiger and we'd be in the bushes with our spears and I'd be whispering to him and he'd whisper to me and we'd line up the other guy with some hand signal sort of thing. And it's like you know, we interact very, very differently than women do and I think men have to do shit. Women like talking about stuff, which is fine, but I think you know, for men you can't sit around. Be a keyboard warrior, you know. Pretend like you're accomplishing something in the world just by typing something in or making fun of somebody online. It's like get up off your ass and let me see you do something.
Darren:And it's funny because I think sometimes not always but the more you trust someone, the more you can work with someone. So I think, uh, what? My head of client success in my company, his name's Tom. We met through podcasting Then he was just a fucking killer and I was like hey, like could you help me here? So I was like paying him for advice and then I was like hey, why don't you come work for us?
Darren:And then we built out our coaching program and then he built a ground up and we work together like all day, every day, and like I'm not asking him how his feelings are right, we're just working on things together and it works really well. And then we go for steaks and chill and go to gym and so on, so on and forth. But I think it's a really good barometer and what I say to him is like our personal professional relationship is like it's just because we trust each other that we can do it together. I think. Think, if you don't fully trust someone, it's like okay, that's not a good idea.
Richard:Yeah, and you can build that trust. You can build that brotherhood, that bond, by doing stuff. I don't. I don't trust anybody for anything unless they're in my community, like anytime I got to hire somebody for something or to do something, it's like I don't go in my community and I'll just say and signal, hey, I'm looking for this. You know who's got this, uh skill set, who's got this capacity? Or you know, can you refer me to somebody? And we sort of, you know, protect each other. I'm not saying you're hostile towards them, but you're more indifferent towards them than you are caring about the people in your inner circle. And those circles get tighter and tighter, by the way, like you and your wife would be on the inside right. And then it's like you know you, you're your wife and your friends or your business partners are like that, like those concentric rings kind of like a tree, sort of like build out, and then at some point there's a ring that becomes a perimeter that you just don't really care much about those people or their opinions on the outside.
Darren:I think a challenge for a lot of young guys, though, is the fact that, as they go through their twenties and thirties, they lose the connection with their older friends.
Richard:A lot of men lose friendships, especially, especially in breakups and divorce, especially in a divorce.
Darren:A lot of lonely guys at that point. How have you seen that play out?
Richard:how does it usually play out is she ends up getting all the friends and um, you know the couples and stuff like that and the wives and girlfriends will say to their husbands and boyfriends yeah, you can't hang out with bill anymore, because you know they're getting divorced and we have to pick a side fuck man that's brutal dude and and she gets to pick, pick the side, by the way, not him which tells you who's leading that relationship, which also tells you about the strength of that relationship and how long it's going to last, which won't be very long so what's your advice for guys in that regard?
Darren:because at 30s 40s they're probably focused on their business right, and at that point then they only have a small group of friends to begin with. Like what's, what's your advice for those guys when they come true?
Richard:well you, have to either find a community or or you have to join one. So it's you know. Back to the original point.
Richard:I mean you can you can find good guys at a gym. You can find find good guys at a dojo where people fight. You can find good guys at I don't know any kind of masculine pursuits. I just joined a gun club, not necessarily because I want to shoot guns or I like to go there every weekend, but it's like I want to support a gun club. It's mostly men, they're mostly conservative, there's a social element to it. I also want to give them my money so I have a share in that business in the land. That's on their sort of thing. Um, you know, so there's different ways that you can sort of like put your money in certain places and again like, one of the best ones that I often tell guys to contemplate is join a community, right, like, if you like what somebody's doing and they offer a community, join it. I mean that at first, make sure it's a good one, right, and they actually do do in real life events, cause a lot of them it's like discord chat or signal chat or a Facebook group Like these. These, these Facebook groups, are the absolute worst. It's it's just masturbation.
Richard:These guys are just sitting around talking shit to each other, sharing memes, not really doing anything. They don't meet up in real life. They don't test each other. They don't even know how to throw hands. They don't know how to fight. Like they're not competent, it's just talk, talk, talk.
Richard:It's like that's not very useful to yourself or to the world, like society, culture, every everybody out there hates a useless guy. They just don't. They don't look at somebody that's um, not doing anything with their life as interesting, useful, competent somebody that they want to be around, invite them, uh, or introduce them to other interesting, competent, resourceful men. They're just nobodies. So they're mostly invisible. And a lot of these guys complain they're like I don't understand why women don't want to be. It's because you're invisible, right, it's because you're not doing anything interesting with your life. You're not, you're not resourceful, you don't have, uh, you know, the capacity for violence. You're meek, you know you're, you know you've got arms like pipe cleaners, like I see these guys with like 11 inch arms and it's like you know why do you think women don't really look at you in a strong way?
Darren:that. That was, that was my first point originally right, which is like the decline of the guy and like fix, fix, fix themselves first fix yourself first and then, at that point, then okay, go fill in the gaps it's happening.
Richard:I mean, like you see them at the gym now, like I don't know what the what the gym culture is like in bali, but like here, you know, you go and you see this like cohort of a lot of guys, sort of like working out together so they're getting things done, but they all look the same, they, they all have the same broccoli haircut. You know what I'm talking about.
Richard:Where it's like you know the curls, and they're all wearing the same crock shirt. Like they all sort of like create their own exact look of a carbon copy of one another, Like they don't sort of break out from it. But I think that's how young men are. At least they're working out right.
Darren:Like at least they're picking up heavy stuff and putting it something that that challenges and stresses their body and forces them to like poke at each other a little bit, right. Well, that's why body's great, because you have people that have kind of broken away and they know that like, okay, you need to get your shit together. Well, there's two sides. It's the extreme parody side where it's just drink, probably drugs and so on and it's the other side then of guys that are actually like going after it.
Darren:But uh, the gym for me was the biggest thing, right? So after I, I blew up my kneecap when I was super young, couldn't play a sport anymore, and then I was just with a massive brace in the gym at 15 years old. It's one thing I enjoyed from rugby, so it's just having that level of discipline and using that level of discipline for everything else. And then I went on to competing and then I went into a few other things as a result and having that as the highest bar and it's like, okay, I want to start a business, I want to start a podcast, I want to start creating more content. I want to start writing. I maybe want to write a book one day. Same shit, same principle.
Richard:Last question for you is what's one belief about relationships most men need to unlearn what's one thing about relationships most men need to unlearn there's a lot um, being nice, like like err, more on being an asshole like I wish being nice was what worked on women that kept them around, that wanted them to be enthusiastic about being with you, but it just doesn't work.
Richard:That's not what they respond positively to. Um, you know, it's why in the uk they have that saying you got to be mean to keep them keen, sort of thing. Um, and I think that there's some truth to that. And you have to be able to say no, you have to be able to set boundaries, you have to be able to, uh, you have to have the ability to walk away. Um, most guys don't have that ability, let alone if they try to execute on that ability. They don't have the persona, they don't have the build, they don't have the aura of that guy that actually get away with saying like no, you're not going to do that, or I'm not having that, or I'm sorry, you know, we're done, I'm not going to entertain you in a situation like that.
Darren:That is the same as, just like with a client relationship. It's a with or without you energy. You know I'm going to do this with or without you Client, customer, partner, whatever Like you can come, it's going to be fantastic. But if you don't come, I'm still going to be okay.
Richard:It's still going to be fantastic. You're just not going to be here. You're going to miss out on it.
Darren:Great point to finish up, man.
Richard:This is awesome.
Darren:I'd love to do it in person. I feel like I'll never get you out of that room, but I would love to do the next episode in person, man.