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Kickoff Sessions
Weekly podcast episodes with the sharpest minds in the world to help you live a richer & more fulfilling life.
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Kickoff Sessions
#295 Elliot Wise - How to Build a $1M Online Business (Step-by-Step Guide)
Watch This NEXT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlK2P76_ZZs
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(00:00) Preview
(01:19) Money Won’t Make You Happy
(03:52) Elliot’s Wake-Up Call
(05:47) The Real Cost of Chasing Status
(09:32) How AI Is Changing Personal Branding
(11:12) How to Build Trust in Business
(17:14) The Future of Content: Live Streaming
(19:38) Elliot’s Formula for Viral Content (RIVE)
(23:57) The Power of Authenticity in Business
(25:47) How Elliot Rebuilt Avoided Burnout
(32:21) How to Reverse Engineer Your Ideal Business & Life
(35:31) The Role of Energy in Business Operations and Sales
(38:39) Why Elliot Refuses to Leave the UK
(43:12) The Danger of Victim Mentality in Business
(46:30) What Founders Can Learn From Eastern European Hustle
(50:39) Running a Business-Focused Household
(55:08) The Importance of Building Systems
I made my first million by the time I was 19. I was like I'm the man I'm making money. I thought that was it. Brand to me, is synonymous with trust. When you look at someone that has a good brand, it instantly builds trust. What we now have is the highest level of skepticism ever, because what AI has just done has gone. Why? That's a very important question. Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this job? Why am I with this woman? Why am I waking up every day, not enjoying my Monday mornings? When you start asking why, how?
Darren:can you possibly build trust with people if you're building an online business, and how can you build that out?
Elliot:You're just going from zero. Document what you're doing and build as much trust as humanly possible while doing it. Long form is still the biggest arbitrage in content, because everyone's doing the short stuff, do the things other people aren't willing to do, and also so why should someone get green peeled?
Elliot:why does someone get green peeled? Because we have one life and the biggest gift we have is time. Most people forget that we feel like we're invincible. We feel like human, like we're super human when we're young. We can live forever and if you frame it that there isn't anything after guaranteed, if all we do is predicate our identity based on how much money we earn every single month and we think that we'll be a better man because we earn a little bit more money, we'll be a better person because we earn a little bit more money, then you're going to end up very lonely because those around you didn't just sign up with you to be an ATM. They want you to be present.
Elliot:As a man especially, you need to be a support, you need to be an ATM and you also have to be a good father, a good husband, a good son, a good brother, a good friend, employer, employee. So it's about balance, and that's not to say that you can't focus on specific areas in your life at certain periods of time, because that's what's required to become great at something. But it's more than just money. Money is a tool. It was invented by the banking system and, if you can use it properly to fuel the rest of your life. That's a green pill mindset, personal image, health, relationships and wealth.
Darren:I think the way that you position it really well, though it's almost about how you show up in the world. It's almost less about what's in the bank account or what other people are saying of you, but it's almost about the attitude that you have right, Because I even see that the way that you show up for your community, the way you show up for yourself, even like physically and visually, that's quite rare, because it's less about what you can almost provide for someone and almost about your intrinsic values, which then kind of create reality. Right, it's not always about just external.
Elliot:Money is nothing more than a tool. It's an amplifier. So if you take a toxic person and you put money behind them, you're going to amplify the toxicity. If you take a very philanthropic, a very giving a very, you know, if you're talking about men, a gentleman, and you give him money, he's going to do good with the world. He's going to use it to fuel himself in a better way. Same with women you put money behind them and they're toxic. You're going to get a very toxic person. So how you do everything in life will be amplified by the money, and I think that we've gone so red pill, which is like sacrificing everything in your life for more money versus using that money to do good were you ever rupert, was iilled, was I ever?
Elliot:red-pilled man through my 20s. Oh, I was obsessed. I have been. This is why I feel I can talk on this subject. I'm one of these people that I don't agree with the academic system. I went through it. I did an economics degree. I was pitched to be a stockbroker. I was offered to go work for a company in London I'm not sure if they're still around called Brunner Dolphin, one of the biggest hedge fund firms in London. At 16, they asked me to go and work for them. I was going down that road at a rate of knots. I then started my own business, e-commerce when I was young. I made my first million by the time I was 19. I was like I'm the man, I'm making money, right, I'm driving around in a 9-11 turbo at 19. Turbo at 19. I thought that was it. I thought that was it. I thought you are a man, you're a better person. I even thought I was above people because I had money. I went through my whole 20s.
Elliot:It was only when I had, in my late 20s, my first son, morgan, and I ended up actually having a very deep conversation. It was more of a row with my mother-in-law, because I did shirk the responsibilities of being a father for the first six months of my son being born, thinking that, do you know what? I'm going to? Plow myself into work. That's all they need. This is what I am here for More resources. And I made the excuse that that was what my job role was. And she brought me down to earth and gave me some cold, hard truth that, no, you're a father, and a father is present. Yes, he has to support the family, but he also has to be here. He has to be supportive of your wife, my wife Hannah. You also have to be here for your son, not just at work, and I actually argued at the time. We had a massive row. We didn't speak for about three months and it was in that period that I couldn't sleep.
Elliot:I was thinking over and over again about this whole concept and I was like I've got this wrong the entire time. It's not just about this. I was like that's just one element. It's like, as a man, as a father, you have to be more than that. You have to do the whole thing. You have to do the nappies, you have to support your wife, you have to go to work, you have to be stoic, you have to be the last resort and the stability in the family when everything else and the enemies at the gate. You can't show any lack of confidence. You are the safety net and that's what you sign up to when you have a kid.
Darren:Just want to take one quick break to ask you one question have you been enjoying these episodes? Because, if you have, I'd really appreciate it if you subscribe to the channel so that more people can see these episodes and be influenced to build an online business this year. Thank you, did you think it was because of ego, or like what was what's the underlying factor there? Or because that's a contributor to like other guys that are getting into the space, right? So is it ego or is it insecurity? What do you think?
Elliot:Insecurities. I came from a family with no money, raised in a council house. I think I let society creep in, that little nagging voice that tells you that you should have these things. You need to be that person, and I just read it wrong. I suppose it's no different to religion, right? You can read religious literature, and everyone takes a different take home based on what they're feeling inside. I think I read society that it's about what you have, it's about what you wear, it's about what you drive, it's about how much money is in your bank account, which I do believe is important, and money does make life easier. It does make life better, like I'm all for it, as you know. But it's not how much money you make.
Darren:It's how you make your money and then how you then use it in the rest of your life yeah, it's really the contributor towards, like everything else you're doing in your life, right, because I guess you see it here. Well, it's crazy because in uk in particular, like it is crazy expensive and the average salary is super, super low, low, right, and I saw one of your clips on this being like we're actually in the best time possible to capitalize on that opportunity. So I'm kind of confident, I'm rocking out of place because I completely agree with you and I also think that everyone needs to go and exploit the opportunity that's there, because with like AI and shit, I don't know, is it going to always be there? Is it always going to be there, right? Is that opportunity always going to be there? Can you wait for it, or should you be really utilizing these five or 10 years?
Darren:I was joking when Trump got a you know he's put back into office again I said we have a four year window. Four year window to just make it, because after the four years years, we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know what consumer sentiment's going to be like. Things can change. So how have you kind of thought about that, the opportunity in front of you?
Elliot:I actually had a chat with my team this week and actually said look, I'm not taking the piss, I'm not joking. I was like I reckon we have a year. I don't even think we've got four, I've got a team. Maybe you've seen already teddy um, and I mean let me ask you this when you grew up, you, what technology did you have available when you first grew up?
Darren:fuck off. So I lived in the countryside of ireland, right? If you think it's bad in the uk, picture 10 times worse, right? Just sheep and cows, it's beautiful. But I literally didn't even have internet in my house until I was like 15 years old, because it's just, it wasn't, it wasn't connected, right. So I was so restricted with everything until I got into high school and, to be fair, where I went in high school was a good opportunity. But I went there for sport, okay, but there was like basically very little access to anything. And then I just speed up and up and up and up and up and then by the time I was 19 or 20, it was almost as if, like this was only on the brink back then and then it just kind of exploded. So my kind of whole take is you need to be almost in it because it could just go bye and that's it.
Elliot:Brother, you're blessed, I'm blessed. We have seen the world when we were introduced to dial-up internet, when your mom picked up the phone and was like Elliot, are you on the bloody internet again? And you're there like because you have to plug a cable in to get on the internet, and you hear this little like crackling noise and you, you, you log in. We then had we had mobile phones where we had to spend 12 P for a 60 character message and we had 10 pound a week to do that with. But before that we had a house phone and then all of a. We have social media. We then get pulled into smartphones and then, more recently, we have AI.
Elliot:I had this scary chat with my team the other day. I have a Bulgarian chap on my team called Nikola. I have Teddy who's 16. They're four years apart. They were both having a discussion about the apps and the technology that they use on their phone. They were both having a discussion about the apps and the technology that they use on their phone and neither of them use the same technology, watch the same people or consume things in the same way. That's four years apart.
Elliot:We're not talking about generations, we're talking about yearly changes where someone that's 18 doesn't understand someone at 16 because it's moving so fast. The age of the brand, the personal brand, is. Ai is going to basically take and license existing personal brands. We have this really small window of arbitrage right now where, if you are growing, you can, you can utilize AI while it's still kind of in its infancy to get ahead. Then I think the door is going to be closed.
Elliot:I feel like at the moment we're running through a cave. There's a hole at the end and it's closing and the people who get on the other side of it will be okay and I think it's maybe four years tops, but I think it's less where we have this window, this random step in history that's just suddenly happened, where we've born into this, We've grown into the technology, we've got to an age where we can understand it, we can utilize it, we've already got momentum, we're already in that space and we can capitalize on it. And then, all of a sudden, it's going to become saturated. The entire planet will be utilizing almost infinite skill, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge in their mobile phone, which, if Elon Musk has any say to do with it, it'll be in your mind. You'll be able to literally just transfer this thing and then, all of a sudden, what's the arbitrage, what's the competitive advantage?
Darren:What is your unfair advantage? Because if you think about it this way, so copywriting is all like AI right now. Right. If you go onto any like X or Twitter, you see everyone's condensed ideas. You know when it is, you know when it's AI written, right. If you're a personal brand, is your unfair advantage and you have an amazing brand. And if that's becoming more and more condensed because it's the cost of production or the unit of production is easier than ever, right, I can create content and create clips super easy with AI. How do you find that unfair advantage?
Elliot:When you buy from someone. What is the main thing that makes you buy from someone If you're going to work with them? It's going to be connection. But what is connection? What's underlying connection?
Darren:The relationship.
Elliot:Trust. Trust will be the fuel in which everything now is built upon Brand. Brand, to me, is synonymous with trust. When you look at someone that has a good brand, it instantly builds trust. What we now have is the highest level of skepticism ever, because what AI has just done is gone. Is this person I'm seeing? Is this person I'm seeing? Is this person I'm hearing actually the person that I think they are? Is this person trustworthy? Is the service they're offering me? Trustworthy? Brand will be everything and having a good brand will be the competitive advantage.
Elliot:I'll tell you a funny story. So I've just built this wonderful new office in my home. Right, some old, old money is itlime. Anyway, I've decided, I've watched Mobland recently and I've seen how the office is laid out. I'm like I need more lamps. So I've gone on Facebook marketplace at like 10 o'clock at night it's like last Saturday actually and I'm like, oh, these are some guys got some marble lamps on here that I love. So I've messaged him. I was like hey, buddy, will you deliver these lamps or send them out? I was like I'm very busy and he was like yeah, I can do, but this sounds like a scam. Little did I know that there's some Facebook marketplace scam where people send out the stuff and they don't get paid, or whatever. I was like no, no, buddy, I'll send you the money and then you can send it to me. We went, bro, get the way, we'll talk about it a little bit.
Elliot:But I'm very, I'm very. I have a place in Bulgaria. I travel out there all the time. It's just funny that it happened to be a Bulgarian, anyway. So I'm like, excuse me. I'm like don't you dare talk to me like that. So he's like you're probably some Indian from such and such. He's never seen a tenor in your life. And I'm like I voice-sowed him. I was like my name's Elliot. It's the same person in the picture. He's like you're AI.
Elliot:So I've gone outside. My wife is like I'm just giggling. She didn't even know what was going on. So I've gone outside. I've gone out in front of my event door. I've just taken a photo and I just swore at him in the photo. He's gone, brother, I still don't believe you. And I'm like right, I'm already in it all at this point. So I've gone onto my Instagram and I've taken a video recording of the chat, I've put it up and I'm like go to look at my stories. He's like I don't care what you say, you're definitely AI. This, that and the other. Cut a long story short. I've then taken still ai.
Elliot:This guy genuinely believed it wasn't me and then, all of a sudden, all the bulgarians that follow me have just gone and absolutely harassed this guy. On his pages, like this is elliot, like what are you talking about? And I got a message later. He's like I'll send you the lamps for free. I'm really sorry. The point, the deeper point here is that even though I was trying to justify and tell him it was me, he did not believe it was me. So you talked about competitive advantage. If you want to sell anything in the future, the one most underlying core trait that you'll have is trust, and that's why brand is so important now, and I think there's a closing window of brand. This is why you doing these podcasts is amazing. People are buying into you. You're giving a platform for guys like myself, thank you very much, to actually come out and talk about who I am and what I do, and that won't be around forever, because once everyone realizes that, it'll be too late.
Darren:So I get this question once a week from someone who's like a client or a customer and they say, Darren, do you still need that podcast? Every single week. And I always say absolutely more than ever, Because my podcast is the reason why I'm here. The podcast is the reason why I have clients and customers. It's literally what made me, because it's non-ORLY. I fly across the world. I flew fucking 20 hours to get here. Bro, Got flew here super jet lagged. We're sitting across the table building a relationship and there's no ORLY, but it's the overall brand and it's how you're perceived, right, and it's things that I actually truly enjoy. 300 episodes in, so 300, 300. Thank you, man.
Darren:But it's doing the things that other people are not going to do, Getting results that you may not seem obvious, right, but like true serendipity, I guarantee you in two years time I'll be like, yeah, Elliot, you can hop on that podcast. Or you might be like, yeah, Darren, I've introduced you to this person. It's looking at things in a nonlinear way. So I'm meeting Rory Sutter on tomorrow and Rory is like one of the best marketers of all time.
Darren:His whole thesis for advertising is do the non-linear, non-data, non-intrinsic stuff. So just because something in the data says you should do it this way, he said, no, fuck that, Nevermind, it's one of the biggest, best advertisers of all time. And he's saying to not look at the data and just go off of your own like basically like intuition of what you've learned over the years. So it's a very interesting reminder, right? So my question for you is you're a young guy like Teddy 16, 17 years old. How can you possibly build trust with people if you're building an online business, and how can you build that out if you're just going from zero? Document everything.
Elliot:Document, mate. What you've just talked about there is exactly that. And once again it goes back to this trusting. So I talk a lot about the distrust gap. So, for example, if I said to you right, buddy, I can come in and start up your podcast tomorrow and within three months we'll have 10 extra revenue. You'll be making X amount more profit and I'm going to charge a percentage of that or whatever the price is. If I believed you, I'd sign up to you like that. The reason I wouldn't is because I don't trust it.
Elliot:So this is sales 101. It's get the person to trust that you're actually able to deliver the thing that you say you can. So for a young person starting out 16, 17, there is no too young for this start documenting every single day what it is that you're doing. And the most important I would say the most important technology that's available right now is live streaming. I've yet to talk about this on any podcast yet, because it's so new to me. This technology is the future because, yes, you and I are having this podcast right now, but we're engaging with one another and it's not in real time. Yeah, you might even get it up tomorrow, you might get up tonight. But it's not real time.
Elliot:Everyone has a dopamine addiction right now and the age old talking head videos, the quick hits that we're getting, aren't doing it anymore. It's like we're saturated with that. I want to be there. I want POV. I want to talk to these guys while they're doing it. That's the difference. You can deal with your haters and people that like you and answer questions in real time. Bring in there with you for the journey. So if you are young or old, I don't care how old you are. The age is irrelevant to me. It's document what you're doing and build as much trust as humanly possible while doing it. Long form is still the biggest arbitrage in content, whether that be streaming or in podcasts, because everyone's doing the short stuff, like you said. Gary Vee once said scale the unscalable, do the things other people aren't willing to do, and also frauds get caught out when they do too many longs or long form content.
Darren:So that's the big thing of a podcast, right, is that? Um, so this is why this is so funny. So my wife here my wife at least, like she's been a huge influence on me doing things in my life. I was working in corporate. She was like you fucking hate that, do something else. She gave me a lot of permission sometimes and so, funnily enough, she said she actually was willing to recommend me to start a podcast. And she actually recommended to start a fucking sex and dating podcast. I was like I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.
Darren:But when I started it, the reason I'm saying this is because the reason I'm saying it is because the whole premise with long form is that you can see it in someone's face and you can see it in their face when they're not enjoying it. I have a public speaking coach and he knows myself when I'm not enjoying it.
Elliot:And also we're talking about the sex and dating podcast, or are we talking about the normal podcast About actual recording?
Darren:But about If you're showing up and you're looking flat and you're looking stale and you're not looking to enjoy it. People sense that energy, man, straight away. They sense that energy. You can learn it. You can get better at recording, for sure, but that's what keeps longevity so. So that's why podcasting is a really good or youtube videos is a really good barometer. Now, the caveat for that, as you pointed out, was highly edited, overly edited videos. Now they worked in like 2012, 2022, 2023, but then we went through the curve of those and then they kind of like all right, let's go back to natural. I'm curious what else in that spectrum do you find like a new, new, something that's new, unique, novel, that is different, that you're working on? Because live streaming now haven't really heard about that clipping okay, so it's taking your live streams.
Elliot:People want interaction. They want engagement. I think you talked to us a lot about you know. You said you mentioned community and network as well, which is another trust builder. The talking head stuff is dead because people aren't interacting. It's one person talking and, like you said, when you have a novel, I have this formula for virality Rive, r-i-v-e. I coined it because I broke down all the things I saw that actually bring virality. Rarity how often you see it. So the talking head stuff was rare, which is why it worked and I ranked these out of 10.
Elliot:Imitability how hard it is to copy V for value, which is it could be education, it could be entertainment. You know someone walking away feeling like they got some form of value out of the content. Exclusivity how many other substitutes for your brand are there or that piece of content are there? So, rarity, imitability, value, exclusivity the closer all of those metrics are to 10, the higher your Rive score, which will give you the highest level of virality. Now, over time, it changes because rarity is, you know, if we did something clever today, you know, like the morning routine that Ashton Hall has just done, that started off being rare but that then became much less rare over time and everyone started doing it. But the other rare part is how often you see a guy in that level of shape doing that? Very rare, okay. Inventability how hard is it to look like him? Very Okay. So he's getting a lot of 10s here.
Elliot:Value, for whatever reason you found it entertaining, you shared it with your friends, whatever. You've got a high amount of value. Exclusivity how many people can you substitute that? Very few. So when he first put those out, bosh talking head videos were the same. Now it's getting harder and harder.
Elliot:With my content, we've been doing really high edited stuff. We've just seen a massive decline. So it was like right, we're going raw, we want real, we want engagement with the consumer in real time, live, and then we're going to use that as content. It's hard to do it. One it's rare because you don't often see it very much, because people aren't really in the live space just yet. It's hard to copy because you'd be very good at it, because you're able to talk on long form for a long period of time. People that are scripted, that do all this stuff you know I'm not going to name names, but I see a lot of the top guys at the moment. They will get absolutely obliterated in lives because you've got to be they're not good on podcasts, man, they're not exactly on podcasts they haven't had their team sit down, they haven't got a like, a reader.
Elliot:Whatever they are, they say I'm a teleprompter, which they do. Man, I've sat down and people like do you want to tell you prompts?
Darren:no, just did you want to hear something hilarious? So I can never use a teleprompter for two reasons. One One I'm dyslexic. I can't tell the difference between angel and angle. I'm super dyslexic, bro. The second thing is my left eye.
Elliot:What does that say?
Darren:My left eye is super fucked from when I was a kid from watching TV too close, so not only can I not see the teleprompter, but I can't see it and I can't read it. So those two things were just out the door with me. But when we started working with clients for youtube, people are like where's the script? I'm like pro, there is no script, you just know it. You have like three, four points and then you just do it.
Elliot:No, and then everyone's like I find it so difficult if someone tells me what like, for example, if you told me what we were going to be talking about today, I would start to think about how I would want to reply to it. And then, if you ask me something something differently and I'm like, how do I get to that point? I'm then thinking about how I end up answering the question that you didn't ask me, because that's what I wanted to say. I'm off, it's just flow.
Elliot:So the live stuff I think if you've got the ability to do that, that's the arbitrage right now, and then use that for content. What we we could have done is we could have had live right now and then we could have had 15 minutes, and then we could have had a screen here and be like, hey, jerry, what's going on? And then actually then they're waiting around and all of a sudden you've got them involved with what it is you're doing. People want to feel part of something. I think we've got the most high level of contact and communication ever, yet people feel the most lonely and isolated. So how do we make them feel more involved? That's actual full engagement in real time I'm curious because you think about this.
Darren:So good point, let's do that you think about this so deeply, man. You're really really well versed in your own content. You know most guys have a content team that just supplies them fucking scripts and a teleprompter. What else around there is kind of unique, because I kind of want to really double tap on this, because you think about this deeply, more deeply than a lot of people that I've actually met well, I think that it has to that cliche thing of unapologetic, unapologetically authentic.
Elliot:The reason I am able to do the content that I do is because I could not give a fuck what anyone thinks about me, and that has come from a lot of self-work. I look in the mirror and I'm proud of the person that I am becoming. If I died tomorrow and this is the metric that I use would I be prideful of what I have achieved so far and the journey that I'm on? Yes, I'm not talking about having reached my potential. I've got infinite ways to go. But if I die tomorrow, am I happy with the person I'm becoming? Am I happy with the father that I am, the husband that I am, the son, that I am, the brother that I am, what I'm pushing out and message the world? Yes, so when I have that pride in who I am, I'm now no longer insecure about other people's opinions of me, because I know what I am doing is truthful to me and what it is that I'm trying to achieve in the message I want to put out, which enables me to speak and do and act in a way that is in line with who I am. So I could give a shit if someone doesn't like what I have to say or the suit that I'm wearing or the hairstyle I've got or the fact that I'm going gray or whatever. I don't care. If someone says something to me and I've made a mistake, of course I'll apologize and say I didn't mean to do that. But I'm able to do my content unencumbered by the opinions and thoughts of others. And people talk about freedom. You've probably heard the three pillars of freedom financial time freedom, location freedom. I realized that none of that means shit. If you still worry about what other people think and you're insecure, you're completely beholden to other people's opinions and you'll never feel free. Until you can unshackle yourself from that, then life gets good. What type of inner work did you do? That was really sitting down and actually reverse engineering why I was making certain decisions. What decisions were you making? One, what job I had, what I needed to wear, what I needed to look like.
Elliot:I had massive insecurities from a kid. We came from a poor family. I was a fat teenager. I had so much competitiveness and so much anger and I was listening to. I don't even know what I was listening to.
Elliot:I'll tell you a story, no-transcript. I was boshing bodybuilding very hard and I went uh, adam, no, I haven't, I think. I think you need to have a heart scan just to make sure you're okay. It's like the way you've pushed your body the last decade and what you've done. Because I sat there I was quite honest and open about what I'd done and all the naughty things I'd been doing.
Elliot:So he organized a private heart scan for me and he basically turned around and said look, mate, you have what's known as lefrentric or hypertrophy, which is thickening of the lefrentric. He went it's not a problem at the moment and it's pretty common in people that have taken like bodybuilding or sports to an extreme. And he said right, I've got a friend in london who's a specialist in this area. He handles like triathletes and bodybuilders and whatever else. You can go to him and see him twice a year, do checkups and make sure you're okay. But he's like, just like you know, you're now at higher risk of cardiovascular disease. I was like okay, remind me again, elliot, why do you do this bodybuilding thing? And I sat there and I couldn't give him a rational answer. I was like so, in essence, elliot, you are now increasing your risk of a heart attack and potentially making your kids fatherless for an unknown reason, motherless for an unknown reason. Yes, adam, maybe you want to go away and rethink that one.
Elliot:And it was in that moment I just why. That's a very important question. Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this job? Why am I with this woman? Why am I waking up every day, not enjoying my Monday mornings? When you start asking why because that's what society and the system has told you not to ask, huh, never really thought about that, and I guarantee you ask most people why you do certain things. They can't actually give you a rational answer. Maybe I should think deeper about that.
Elliot:And that was the inner work I did on myself. I started noting down everything that every time I did something, why am I doing that? I'm not enjoying this, why? Why do I have to be doing this? Why, and who made? And then I suddenly realized I was like oh, that was an opinion that someone gave me, or that was an insecurity that I had, which just manifested itself into the life that I've got. Then, all of a sudden, this fulfillment curve that should have been my life. That would have actually made me happy I'm just getting so far away from. And then, when you start doing that work, all of a sudden you're happy with. Happy with who you are, what you stand for.
Darren:You stop giving a shit what other people think, and it's still going to be hard, right, that's the whole point. It's going to be hard, but there's a deeper reason as to why you're doing it. So one of my mentors, james Kemp, always says what are you optimizing for? It's just a very simple question. I went to his mastermind about a year ago and he's looking at a table and someone was like I want to do xyz. And it's like what are you optimizing for? Because all these guys, um, were like senior executives and companies and then they went off to build online businesses and they built great businesses, but they're snowed in by their business. They're working 100 hours a week. They're probably making really good money, but his model is well, you. Why did you do this in the first place? It was to get away from that and now you're redoing why right yeah?
Darren:why exactly, and it's more, do you think about that? And there's seasons of life, right, I'm 29, um, I am married. I basically have nothing to do but to build my business and go to the gym, like, being straight up, there's fuck all I need to do, like there's literally nothing I have to do apart from those things client shit, gym stuff, yeah. So it's about then thinking, okay, what is it I want to do? How do I want to package this all together? And I don't know. I just feel like that, because you've done the inner work I've done it to some degree, but mainly from a business perspective we then have the, the outcome that you want. Right outcome doesn't just arrive.
Elliot:Let me ask you this then have you gone through periods of your life where you felt massive pressure Because you said I don't have to do anything? Right? The way you frame that term, it means that you know that you're on the right path to achieving what you've set out, whereas most people go I need to do this, and that's where I'm like okay, but why so? Have you had? Is this changed over time?
Darren:Have you read 10X, zs and 2x? I haven't Give me your address, I'll send it to you. Yeah, you'll really enjoy it. So a big part of the book is needs versus wants. So if you meet someone and they say they need something, I need this to work, I need to get that client. That creates anxiety, stress and fear. If you want it to work, it creates creativity and enthusiasm. You can be poor and want it, and then you think about things through a different lens. It's just perspective shifting right.
Darren:So when I was younger and I was in London and I was hating my job in nine to five, I had to make things work. My first business was an econ business. It was a vintage clothing store in London and I loved it. I enjoyed it. It was so tough to run one, so tough to run and I went to zero. And then I built a startup in Ireland and I needed it to work, apparently. But then when I went to my podcast, I wanted it to work.
Darren:I always get asked like what's the goal? What's the goal? The goal is to keep playing. That's what the infinite game is is to keep playing. So as a result, I view things just differently.
Darren:You know, me and my wife were here this week. We're like, yeah, let's record here for a week, let's go to Marbella for a week. I got to go to Barcelona for a mastermind, yeah, and then, as a result, lo and behold, the fucking results that you want come easier. But whenever I'm pushing harder and I'm not a princess, I'm still like pushing really hard. I feel like I push away the goal that I want, right, so it's just a frame, and never I catch myself. And I've caught myself even, like this week, you know. Um, it's a thing that I need to constantly keep working on, right, but then, from like a position perspective, yeah, like I don't need to work 24 7, and I don't either. But I want to do it, though, and I enjoy it, you know, and I like to pursue it, I like to hunt I think that the big thing for me is framing what it is.
Elliot:Like you said, what you're optimizing for. I look at that as what do I actually want out of life? One thing they just should just teach you in school is to actually because they teach you that when you're younger it's like what's your dream? So you get a very vague idea of, okay, I think I want to be an astronaut, I want to be a firefighter, I want to you know, whatever it is. Then later on in life, you're like well, okay, I'm now in the system, I'm now gearing up to go and be a cog in the economy, but it's.
Elliot:We've lost complete track of actually what I want from life. And then when I sit down with people, I say, well, look, be very specific. Now Let me ask you what do you want and who do you want to be? Let's say, 10, 20 years time. Well, I'm not talking about 30, 40, 50 years, if you think you've got that much time left, but 10, 20 years from now.
Elliot:What are you looking at? Are we looking at four bedrooms attached house? Are we looking at a half decent income? Are we looking at a wife? Are we looking at the ability to fly around. Are we looking at a big mansion? What, specifically, from a financial perspective and freedom perspective, time, location, geographic, what are we looking at? And then most people, when they actually answer me, I'm like, okay, let's actually reverse engineer this then. So you want a nice, big, four bedroom detached house in the countryside with a few acres when, okay, we want to do it up north, okay, well, we'll maybe look at that. Call it a million quid. Then we're like, okay, nice car and the ability to go on holiday, okay, cool.
Elliot:Well, when I look at where you are right now as a coach, earning 8K a month, I'm like you're more than ahead of schedule to get there in the next 10 years. So why are you pulling your hair out and having all these emotional reactions to business and life? Because you have some fictitious. You don't even know what you're optimizing for, what you're aiming for, and you're actually well on path. The biggest issue I see with entrepreneurs is their emotional side coming into business decisions because they lose a client, they lose their head, their whole strategy changes. Okay, I'm going to pull my ad budget, I'm going to pull this Because they were so fear. They're in a state of fear and anxiety, as you said, because they feel like they need to do it but and reality, they don't, because they're actually more than ahead of their path. They just didn't actually figure out where they were going and reverse engineer the steps. I'm like, chill out, chill out a little bit, play from a place of of comfort and offense rather than defense, and trying to constantly just adjust and pivot reactively.
Darren:I wonder is that inner work? I wonder, is that more rooted than that? I see this over and over again.
Elliot:That's why I asked if you'd been there and it sounded like you were, especially when you're in the corporate world, because they drill that into you to keep you in a constant state of anxiety, right?
Darren:So I had a post about this yesterday. Basically, my whole logic is like your clients are a reflection of you and who you are is what you attract, right? So if you're anxious, you're nervous, you're indecisive, you need to think about it. That's who you attract. Your pipeline is still the people that need to think about it, whereas if you're, if you want people that painful, are decisive, show up, get the result and don't bitch and moan. You have to be that and fully transparent.
Darren:Me and my public uh speaking coach, we actually finished a 12-week stint yesterday and he sent me a voice note. He's like oh, your brother, like you know, uh, we finished a stint, what do you want to do next? And I was like just just send me the stripe link and I'll just take care of it. Let's just keep moving. You know because? Because instead of me sitting down being like, well, I learned these words and this was, I was like fuck that, just just move forward.
Darren:Because I wanted to be that person and obviously it's circumstance based, but I felt like that. I feel like that attracts a certain person to me. Then you have to be that person. So why I'm saying this is because I feel like sometimes people who get into the space, especially if they're influencer led, they've got attention for being pretty or a guy that's jacked, but they don't understand that, like business is volatile as fuck and it's variable based and so on, that it's like life came easy to you to some degree from some vanity metric, but now you don't have the substance to keep it up, whereas, as I always say to you, I'm a business owner first and then I create content. I'm not a fucking creator dude, and that was a real line in the sand that I'll die by, because I think that's where. That's where the money's made right let's talk about frequency.
Elliot:I'd love to get your opinion on this. You are a high frequency guy. I'm a high frequency guy. For me, that lubricates everything your team, the sales because you you just said that, you nailed it you are what you attract. Yeah, and for me, the best salespeople, the things I magnetize towards, are people that have the highest levels of frequency. The people just seem to be buzzing on life.
Elliot:Like you said, I pride myself on being able to build a game. I never want to stop playing. You know, you call it the infinite game. I always I came to this conclusion myself. I was like what if we play in a game and you invite all your mates around to come play this game and you get all the games out the drawer? It's like, oh, fuck me, we've completed them all. Where's the fun? Like games should be something you actually want to continue playing through the levels. It's the journey, not the destination, not the completion of it that is any good. It's the actual playing together and actually having fun with the game.
Elliot:That's my, that's how I like to frame my life. I wake up every day and all I want to do is high frequency. I I literally cut off anything that's low frequency, because I know as soon as I am high frequency, my family's happy, my kids are happier. I could get on a sales call. My energy will sell the person. So I just want to be around this motherfucker. It's so rare. Now as well, I'm walking around. I'm like Christ. It's just you got to work on yourself to get to a point where you just want to be around that person and, like you said, it's you're the same and this is why you will sell and this is why your business is doing well. It's why your podcast does well because people want to be around that energy.
Darren:Dude, 100% agree. You have to set that bar too right. Over and over again, I had a call with my sales team this morning 6am. Jet lagged as fuck and I said it to the guys. I was like, guys, I think the energy is a little bit low. Past couple days, just, we haven't been getting the dope mean of book calls closes.
Darren:We need to up the energy and it's just a small thing, right, because it fluctuates. You're right, it comes in and out. It's not always up here 24 7, but you as a leader need to ignite that and bring that fucking energy 24 7. That is why I love living in like places like bali, because you wake up and it's super sunny. So it just again like the fucking vitamin D just brings you up. And then I always train around 10 or 11 am. So I'll work in the morning, I'll train, I'll do cardio. My coach will tell me to stop doing cardio all the time, but I do it because I get back and I just feel better. Plush, look, thank you, yeah, and I feel like you probably like over index on it for sure. You know there is a time where you need to be working more than just training more.
Darren:But again, it's the food that goes into your body. I see you write about that as well, like are you eating clear, caught, organic food, or is it some processed bullshit? It has all of an impact. What I want to ask you is so people obviously been talking a lot of shit about the UK and then I I came back and, as I said, like I think it's beautiful, I love being in London, I love being in London and I lived here and that's why I, when I lived here as well, I also loved it. Do you think? Do you think that some of the entrepreneurs have left, have brought the entrepreneur spirit out of London, whereas now it's left with people that are like less entrepreneurial or less high frequency, or do you think, yeah, how do you think that played out? Because I feel like a lot of companies have left here, but do you feel like entrepreneurs are also leaving here and bringing that kind of spirit out of?
Elliot:London. Do you know what? Fuck any entrepreneur that thinks they can just leave their mess behind. I have a passionate love for my country. I don't love the way it's being run or the way it's and what it's turning into right now. I don't like the direction of it, but if you were someone that has power, that has influence, that has resources, and this country gave you stability in the foothold to get you to where you are and the first thing you do at the sign of something that is not what you want, you fuck off then frankly, I don't want you in my country.
Elliot:It's the same way if your wife that you like, love and cared for you and has been there your entire time let's say, for example, god forbid she gets ill or she can't be the person that she goes through some issues, mental, whatever what are you gonna just throw her out? At the first sight, what kind of a fucking man are you? This country has been built off the backs of people that love their country, that didn't run away from a fight, that literally sat in trenches getting shot, possibly even died, to build the freedom that you've got, to help you become the entrepreneur that you are, and then you then just run off because you can't be arsed with the aggro. Do you know what? Frankly, go, because I'd rather be left with the people that actually want to stay and fight, that have something more to offer. I would rather be left with the people that actually want to stay and fight that have something more to offer and, yeah, the country's not going the right way.
Darren:It is not. What is the driving force for people leaving? So again, you've got to think about it. It's like spiral dynamics. It's like the way things are presented to us. Is it taxation? Or is taxation literally a fucking? Is it a front for something else? There's deeper layers to this. Right, you can't just fucking say it's that.
Elliot:You can't just say it's taxation, right, it's not taxation, right, so taxation is set by the government that's in power. Now let's just use your home as an analogy. Right, I see the country we live in as our home, as an extension of our home. Right, we step out our front door. We still live in our home In this little island we live on. It's our home.
Elliot:Now, what happened was, for whatever reason, core and fundamentally, I think, we lost the family unit, which then meant we stopped caring for our actual home and then, as a result, people became more disjointed than ever. We lost respect for one another. And let me tell you this if you built your home from the ground up and all your ancestors did, it was a family home and you loved and cherished it. You polished every area of that house. It was immaculate, and some fucker walks in with dirty boots and just starts disrespecting and trashing your home. How are you going to act towards that person? It's gonna be pretty visceral. That guy's going out the door. Now let's just say, for example, you lost love of that house for whatever reason, and it's a shithole. You walk in with a dirty boots and you don't care for anymore when someone else does, or someone comes in and makes a decision about what's happening. You lost lost care for that a long time ago. Nothing gets done Now because, for whatever reason, the men and women of this country lost respect for this country.
Elliot:We then stopped having an intolerance for things that we don't like. So, for example, people stopped going to vote, people stopped fighting for things that they love. People blame immigrants, they blame this, and that I'm like. Well, if you fought for your country, that never would have happened in the first place. You never would have had a government in power that put the taxes up like they have. The root cause is you and the fact that you lost love and respect for the country.
Elliot:The taxation is just now a byproduct of all of this stuff going wrong. So if we want to fix that, we have to fix it at its root cause. We have to find love and respect for ourselves, find love and respect for family unit, our ancestors, our heritage. You talked about walking around London and just how insane the architecture is here, how much time, love and effort has gone into that. That didn't come from nothing. That came from people that have loved and cherished this country, but we forgot on that a long time ago. The taxation is just the byproduct of that and, yes, it's made it more painful to be here. But if you don't like something the way it's gone, that's something to be done about it.
Darren:It's symptomatic versus root cause. Which is why I wanted to ask you was what's your opinion on Gary Stevenson and his approach? What element of it? So it's speaking broadly, it's mainly that you, you know, it's not your fault that you don't have money, it's not your fault, it's the government's fault, it's it's the high income earners and the redistribution of wealth. So his approach is like without the wealth being redistributed, um, it's not your fault that you don't have money and you don't have, you don't have the ability to buy your house yeah, you don't also have to worry about the shit that you put in your mouth or the the fact that you wear certain clothes.
Elliot:As soon as you take accountability for everything in your life, you take control of your life why do you think that message hits, though?
Darren:this is the problem, because I had a clip about gary that went super viral and this is my opinion. When he speaks to that, to like the bell curve right to everyone that's in the medium, the medium wage those people are like, yeah, fuck the government, fuck the wealthy people, and the bulk people are attached. This is my opinion. They're attaching to that message as a scapegoat, but it's super fucking dangerous dude. This dude went from like zero to like 800,000 subscribers.
Elliot:Because, they lost the role models.
Elliot:Role models.
Elliot:We have a bunch of men and women that have that kind of message in their parents, in their school system, in their political system, telling them that it's okay to be a fat waste of space that sponges off the government and you can sit at home watching TikTok lives, watching some TV, eating your fucking takeaway, mcdonald's or whatever it is that you do with your life, and you can continue down that route because you're getting the benefits.
Elliot:What the UK government do sublimely well is they give just enough to the people that don't have to make them reliant on the system. This is where they have been absolutely unbelievably intelligent. They go look, if we take everything away from you, we're going to have a problem, because when people have nothing, they fight. But if we provide you just enough, just to make it just comfortable enough for you not to have to do anything, they rely on the laziness and the really delinquent mindset of the average human being that goes I'll just keep taking that, I don't want to lose it. So better not upset the apple cart. And they do that sublimely well.
Darren:So the masses will fight for that message, so they can be puppeted and people need to wake up because they don't have any role models and no one's actually showing them a better way of doing it, if you compare that to America. So, america, there is no floorboard. You fall, fall, fall bro. But then on the upside there's a huge upside. If you are ambitious because, like taxation policy, even attitude mindset, all my customers are american. And if I'm like, yeah, let's do this for a podcast, like fuck yeah, let's go, whereas that attitude is a shift, especially in ireland well, have you spent?
Elliot:any time in eastern europe? I actually haven't. So this is what's happened. Is you've taken so? The us is probably a good example to compare it to the UK. But if you take the Eastern European countries the Balkans, poland, serbia, bulgaria they have had a tremendous amount of uphill battles and fights from post-Soviet reign, and they also didn't have a floorboard. Plus, they had an absolute dogshit economy for a long period of time. So not only are they poor, they also have no bottom. What do they have to do, grind? They got to work. You've got extremely strong, stoic men. You've got extremely strong, powerful women. You've got great family units and they're all united with one another and they're very patriotic because they see that unity is what's going to provide and build their country. Poland is on track, within the next few years, to have a higher GDP per capita than the UK. This is one of the these people from Poland used to come to our country to get paid, to send money home.
Darren:That was an issue in Ireland. Now I'll tell you a story this week.
Elliot:So my wife is supposed to be on holiday right now. She didn't realize that my eldest son's passport was running out. Now you've got the Schengen area right, which is obviously the European countries my son's passport being run out, they got to the gate and they said you can't travel with him because his passport's running out in the next 40 days, even though he had a flight to be booked back and come home. Europe is now worried about immigrants from the uk. Right, they are worried about the uk populace going and spending refuge or finding refuge in eastern europe because of how fucking far this country has fallen. That never used to. They'd have been like they're definitely going to want to go home after this. That's a worry. What the fuck have we done wrong? Guys, wake up. It's mad mate. It's absolutely bonkers and I'm seeing it. No one's doing anything about it. We're the laughingstock of the world right now.
Darren:But if you compare that right, because if you look at your history, british UK history is fighting right. Fighting is conquering, literally conquering. So why is it not like that anymore though? Because if I compare it to Vietnam, I told you one of my best sales reps is from Vietnam. Vietnam has an amazing economy dude GDP production. Best sales reps from vietnam. Vietnam has an amazing economy. Dude gdp production of exports is fucking booming.
Darren:Why the guys grind? They like didn't pick you up at war? They were outnumbered like 500 to 1. They had fuck all equipment and they just fought for their country and they love their country. That's why I said they're very patriotic. I said to my sales rep qua. I asked him about this. He said our people love our country so they'll do whatever they need, and that's where the biggest exports of primary sector work, so let's say, like raw materials and so on, so forth I bet if you asked anyone from vietnam about the history of their country, they'd probably be able to recite the last two centuries dude, we watch a netflix documentary on the um vietnam war together, and while he was sitting there next to me, he, he knew the people, he knew the ambassadors, he knew the women, the princes, everything he just knew them Now, if you ask the average UK 16-year-old who and what has happened in the UK?
Darren:in the last 100 years they put it no clue.
Elliot:So how can you respect something that you know nothing about? We have stopped caring for our heritage and our history, and we stopped caring about our surname, we stopped caring about our parents, we stopped caring about other people, we stopped respecting, and when you stop respecting, everything's lost. There's no glue, there is no glue and that's what's happened.
Darren:Such a good point, man, such a good point.
Elliot:You know we used to introduce ourselves, as you know, elliot wise, the son of neil wise. You are prideful of your parents and your ancestors and what your family name stood for. That got lost years ago. The enemy of a great life is a good life, and this is why things cycle. The uk has had its real heyday for a long period of time and we got soft the minute we start allowing kids to be cats in school and people wouldn't be able to say anything. You couldn't say boo to a goose. Because we became soft, because life got too easy. Most people spent more time in a coffee shop than they did at work. There was no grind that is needed anymore. Motherf, oh, motherfucker, wake up, because we're about to get absolutely slammed by the rest of the world. I don't think it's lost. I keep saying this we're failing, but it's not failed.
Darren:Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not extremes right do you?
Elliot:get me. We still have one of the most powerful capitals in the world. We still have the financial hub of the world. We have some of the deepest wealth here. We still have the you know as much you as much as you don't like it. We have the monarchy here, which does hold a tremendous amount of weight for the rest of the world. However, if we don't do something about it the next five years, we are going to be obliterated.
Darren:If you look at you know your positioning also across the world and what you've done, and also like the production of food that you have, I mean back and I was like, fuck, this is good. Quality of the food is always going to be so good. So what's your advice? Because you have entrepreneurs who left and they're in Dubai, and then you have young guys that are complaining. So where do we go from here? What's the plan?
Elliot:Gentlemen like us need to step up. We need to provide a better message and show there's a better way of playing the game, and we need to start being higher frequency. We need to start being higher frequency. We need to start focusing on positives rather than negatives, Like, for example, if all you did was you pick out things on your wife that you didn't like things she's wearing or the way she's done her hair right, you don't end up seeing negatives. But same with business If you look for the positives and how you frame things, it's pessimism versus optimism. That's all it is.
Elliot:But it takes a certain caliber of individuals to lead people, because most people are sheeps. Sheeps, that's plural Sheep. Most people are sheep and the thing is, if they don't got someone to look up to, you can still live in the UK and have a good life. You can appreciate the amazing things. Yes, the weather's not great. It's holidays for that, I mean.
Elliot:We now have one of the most weak passports on the planet. By the way, there's a rating system for passports. I didn't realize this In terms of your ability to fly around the world and what you have access to and how long you can stay. We used to be like top five, top ten we're. Now I think we're 39th, right. That goes to show everything you need to know about the country. So guys need to step up women and show a better way of playing the game. It's the role models that will influence the young, because they will lead a better way. And if people keep leaving, that's the president you're setting and the world will get smaller, smaller, smaller. I mean fair play to anyone that wants to go off to Dubai and move all their business out there. Do you trust the banking system there?
Darren:This is a big thing in America, even in Puerto Rico. So Puerto Rico is 4% income tax and there's a lot of stir saying that, well, why can't that change? Why can't it just change to 20? Why can't it change to 2025? Especially in other countries too, because we should have seen that. To be honest, if you look at cyprus so cyprus you know about the haircut they did of banks. Yeah, it's 40 percent, dude, so 40 percent of all of your income in a bank was removed. It's fucking crazy, right? So those bailouts happen, happens in greece, happens everywhere. I want to ask you, before we wrap up, um meaning around relationships, did you say to your wife was a doctor? Yes, she is. How the hell do you manage that in terms of with the kids?
Elliot:and, excuse me, In terms of the have you seen? No, I'm joking.
Darren:But that must be obviously a very intensive career.
Elliot:Mate we both have. We're both empire builders. So when you look at relationships, there's two types of relationships at work and everything else fails. You've got empire builder empire builder where you're both actively contributing to building the empire. You're both going out to work it's like the modern way of living. And then you also have the cheerleader empire builder dynamic where typically you have the woman from a traditional perspective but either way around, one person supports the empire builder and it's all for the big cause. And then you have a fake cheerleader and empire builder where someone's pretending to be part of the mission but they're in it for complete selfish reasons. Okay, at game time they're there just trying to pull you back off the pitch and make you feel guilty about going to work. They're not supporting you really because all they want is attention and money.
Elliot:So my wife and I were empire builders and it did put a tremendous amount of stress on our relationship to start with because she runs her own company as well. She has an aesthetic business. It's probably one of the most successful aesthetic businesses in the southeast of england. She's in the doctors doing medical exams and, you know, constantly trying to keep up with that every year, while also being, you know, a general practitioner and, in the hospitals, two boys. It is a tremendous amount of work. So I actually sat, sat down and was like this is going to break because there is just so much stress on it.
Elliot:So, we're not actually living as a couple, we're just going to work separately. Yeah, we're providing for the same mission, but we didn't like how it was going. So there's two things I implemented actually into our lives that changed everything. One was a family calendar, a joint calendar. I said look, let's stop treating our private life differently to how we treat our commercial life, because my commercial life just runs like clockwork. You know, obviously there's shit and shit that hit the fan, but everything's systemized, everything's planned, everything's organized. I have an assistant runs everything. I was like okay, we're going to get a family calendar, so we're going to book events in no-transcript it to me while I'm busy at my head, you know. Then all the arguments ensue from that. That's all mapped out. The other thing we got a living nanny because we have two boys we didn ever want.
Elliot:We both made the decision that we didn't want a nanny to parent our children. So what we did was is we realized that all the things we argued about was who's making the bed, who's cleaning up, who's cooking, because we're both working hard. So there's no real argument as to why one person should be doing over someone else. There is no. Like you know, this is a Monday way of living. I'm not going to expect her to just cook, because she's a woman. She's working just as hard, if not harder, than I am right. So I said, well, okay, let's take this out of the equation. We're both making good money. So we'll get a nanny in Now. Her job will be take out all life admin, food cleaning, cooking, and then with the kids. We call her child admin.
Elliot:So I still want to take my kids to school. I still want to put them to bed, I still want to spend time with them at the weekends, but I don't want to have to pack their bags in the morning. I don't have to cook them food. I don't want to have to make their beds or change their sheets or wash their clothes she does that but we get to spend quality time with the kids in a non-stressful environment, because there's nothing worse.
Elliot:When you're trying to leave the door and you're not a parent, you don't understand just how much anxiety is built up. When you're trying to find books, bags and everything, get ready for school and it's not prepped, then you end up taking out on your kids because you're in a stress mood. But when you have a nanny doing that for you. I get to just effortlessly walk out the door with my sons, be in a really good high frequency mood, send them off to school in a really comfortable, not anxious state. Life works much better. So, yes, it is difficult, but, as with business, where there's a problem you find a solution.
Darren:Yeah, completely agree, man, completely agree. I think if you're someone who's like high logic and I guess my wife is she's more like calm, collected. I'm more the guy who's just fucking an empire building. But again, we actually had to find that with my assistant we have a group chat. Whereas if we have to bring a dog dogs to the groomer and I'll do it, whereas if I don't do it, that's where anxiety will come in for me, and because I'm like high logic, I need to be able to actually insert fucking rationality into the scenario you know. So, man, I wish we could record for two more hours. We got to do another podcast, bro this is great.
Darren:This is so much fun man time flew man, but big, big thank you thanks, buddy, appreciate it.