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Kickoff Sessions
Weekly podcast episodes with the sharpest minds in the world to help you live a richer & more fulfilling life.
Previous guests include Luke Belmar, Justin Waller, Sahil Bloom, Gad Saad, Peter Schiff, Stirling Cooper, Jack Hopkins, Sadia Khan, Matt Gray, Daniel Priestley, Richard Cooper, Justin Welsh, Arlin Moore and more.
Kickoff Sessions
#308 Taki Moore - The Simplest Way to Sign Coaching Clients on Autopilot
Watch This NEXT: https://youtu.be/FA8kGL3JXx8
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Guest- Taki Moore
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TakiMoore
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/takimoore/
(00:00) Intro
(02:45) When Scaling Becomes Painful
(05:30) The Autopilot Acquisition Model
(08:25) Building a 3-Layer Content Engine
(16:52) Free vs Paid Webinars
(19:10) 3-Part Marketing Framework to Scale
(20:45) Simplifying Cashflow
(23:30) Customization & Coaching Philosophy
(25:20) Platform Focus: Why One Channel Beats Many
(27:18) How Long-Form Builds Trust
(29:22) Removing the Sales Team: The Three-Month Experiment
(35:00) The $1,500 Application Filter (And Why It Works)
(39:06) Pricing Strategy & Early ROI Framework
(39:40) Why Good Product Wins Every Time
(42:29) The Referral System Reframe
(46:00) Creative Offers That Break the Market
(47:02) Information vs Implementation
(50:29) Knowing When to Kill a Product
(52:56) Coaching in the AI Era
(58:25) The Delivery Trifecta: Content, Coaching, Community
(01:00:01) Quick Wins vs Long-Term Foundations
(01:01:24) YouTube Strategy Breakdown
(01:15:10) Creating Content That Feels Authentic (Taki’s Process)
Alright guys, today myself and Taki are going to record a full masterclass on how to get more clients for a coaching business, scale your coaching business, and also not hate your life. Important. A very important point because there's the right way to scale your business and then there's the wrong way to scale your business.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think that's true. The big idea is as your business gets bigger, you want life to get better. And that doesn't often happen. People either have great life, tiny business, which is fine if that's what you want, or massive business, shitty life. Not fun.
SPEAKER_00:Why do you think they build a business that they don't enjoy when it grows? Like what is the underlying issue?
SPEAKER_04:Most people do it because they're following somebody else's plan for how it should be. The truth is there's like 50 ways you can scale a coaching business. Um the most important one is you want the one that's aligned to you. Otherwise, you end up building somebody else's business. Uh when we get started, we look for a role model, someone who's kind of done what we want to do. And because we don't know what we're doing, we just kind of follow their path, which is the best way to get started. The trick, the, the, the trap, though, is that following somebody else's business model that's perfect for them, it's like wearing somebody else's undies. Like kind of kinky at first, maybe exciting if that's what you're into. No, I don't judge. But after a while, it's like fucking uncomfortable. And you end up like this massive business wedgie. Um, Dan Martell would say you kind of hit the pain line where growing more equals pain. And so people like cap out sometimes it's like tactical, like the you know, they've juiced everything, they've squeezed every drop of juice they can out of the organic or out of the ads or whatever. But more mostly though, it's the founder has hit the pain line and you'll never deliberately grow into pain.
SPEAKER_00:And so we want Do you think the pain is based on the workload, or pain is based on the underlying thing that they're delivering, right? If they're delivering culture that they hate.
SPEAKER_04:So it yeah. You know? Yeah, I don't think it's the workload because if you're doing something that you love, it doesn't feel like work, it feels like fun. Um, I'm in a really fun season right now where I'm probably working harder than I have in a couple years, and I'm frothing. Like you caught me before, hand sketching, a YouTube thumbnail.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's raw as it gets. That isn't it. But I'm loving it. It doesn't feel like work, it feels like play. So it's not about the workload. Um, I don't think hard work is the problem. Wrong work is the problem. Doing stuff that's out of your sweet spot. And so that's like part of part of it's the work, part of it's the what you're delivering or how you're delivering it on the back end piece, which we should 100% talk about. But it's also like, are you building a like are you running a model that is that fits you, or are you building a model that's perfect for them for the person you learnt from and wrong for you?
SPEAKER_00:And I think a big part of that too, I think generally is like the impact you're having with your clients, right? Because if you're building a model that suits you, but you are doing something you hate, then it doesn't, it's not a model. It doesn't it doesn't matter, right? Yeah, correct. It's the example for you will be like the the mechanism will be like the sales team, right? It's like something like it's the part that you didn't enjoy.
SPEAKER_04:It was one of like 58 parts of who we enjoyed to be super ours. Yeah. I'm having a resurgence right now. It's we can just be super real. Yeah, like two years ago, I was in a massive funk. Business was great. Like outside, heaps of money, heaps of profit, not much time. I was just like hating it, man. It felt heavy and it felt slow and it felt bloated. Um, and none of what we were doing was wrong. It's just wrong for me. Um I'm a have you um heard about makers and managers?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I heard about content from from Ozzy.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, right. And so he got it from um Paul Graham's article, Maker Time and Manager Times. Amazing. So I'm a maker, I like to create stuff. Same.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I love building stuff in the background.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, need to be tinkering, hands need to be dirty, and I like it's business has gone good and I'd scaled myself out of the stuff like you're supposed to. Um, but I'd scaled myself out of a lot of the coaching and all the way out of the sales and out of the marketing. I was like, so what's left? Like meetings. Shit. Like this, if this is success, I don't want it. And so uh some really good friends got around me and like because I was in a funk and helped me think things through. And the most important thing was just like admitting what I didn't want, admitting what I did. And so in the last 12 months, like literally 14, yeah, 12, 14 months ago, made like admitted to myself what I didn't want. That's often the easiest place to start. Um, made some drastic changes, and we went from a team of 36 to a team of eight, and from a sales team of nine to zero. Like there's nobody in the DMs, there's no setters or closers or or any of that. Um businesses growing, like we're literally signing four times the number of new clients every month than we did. But the profits could. Um, but we didn't do it for profitability, we did it for lightness and nimbleness, because that's what's important to me.
SPEAKER_00:And then I guess like the actual flow of that then means the energy is more focused on getting great results and doing things you enjoy, which is allow the business to grow. 100%. Can you walk through the acquisition channel as a result? Because as we chat about beforehand, you know, you're opening it up. And there's a different ways that you've done this. Yeah. But to decrease the drop in ferocity if and in the DMs and you know, the the actual the volume to offset that volume, what have you done to be able to still grow the business?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, okay, super amazing. So um can we just start with a caveat for everybody? Uh I'm gonna share what's working for us right now. The exact opposite of what I'm doing is also a super valid strategy.
SPEAKER_00:Which is kind of what I'm doing. Like I'm not gonna lie. 100%. You know, like we were trying to work. So our outcome, so that's all that matters. Outcome, the outcome is so strong from our inputs of sales that we are literally trying to double the sales team. Perfect. Because it's working. Yes. And I guess I like sales is a distinction between me and you is that I actually do like the team and the Yeah, I like sales, I don't like team. Yeah, you're just gonna be.
SPEAKER_04:I'm in this weird place where I'm uh I don't like managing people or any kind of admin. Like I'm not management material. I'm banned from my calendar. Um I've got read-only access to my calendar after I booked myself to speak at three different conferences on the same day on three continents, and the team's like, yeah, you shouldn't be I don't know what it's called, you know. Um there's these memes with like a bell curve, and there's like this moron here and the Jedi, it's like retarded Jedi. So that's 100% me. I'm like, I've got no business by but we run this eight-figure business in in with a team of eight and four days a week, four hours a day. It's ridiculous, dude. Um so we had the sales team model. Um, and I'd post some, yeah, we'd post some content, and then people would engage, and then the DM crew would jump in, and then they would chat with people and then book a triage call. Uh, and then from there they'd book a sales call and then people would buy. And it was fine. But because I was out of or not, I don't know, like the team was amazing. It was me. Because I was out of pocket and in a funk, the marketing was shit. And if the marketing's not working, sales has got to pick up the Slack. And so every step in the sales process, like from you know, content to comment to DM to triage to call to offer to close, every one of those steps is an opportunity for the prospect to not do the thing you want them to do. Like it's a link to ask. Right. Um So we design these things as if it's like linear and people come in here and like do all this, and sometimes it happens, but often they don't. Um and so most coaches don't have a conversion rate problem. They've got a not enough people see your offer problem. So in a traditional sales funnel, there's a bunch of like optimizations we can make to get more people to book and more people to show and more people to da da da. I was like, what if we just got rid of all of that and we just like we had marketing, founder-led content, which is super important, and an offer. And so now all of the content is like blah, blah, blah, blah. If you want to see how it works, look at this. And people read it and they self-check out like Amazon, but it's, you know, it's it's 30k or it's 60k, depending on your programs. And there's no sales follow-up and no nothing. It's just like, here's the thing.
SPEAKER_00:From email and from Yeah. Like all our channels.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So the the two, I think, if you separate lead generation and lead nurture.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So for us, lead gen is um short form content daily. Uh our our whole ad strategy is like stuff that worked organically. Always engaged, uh, yeah, with engagement ads or boosts.
SPEAKER_00:Um, Hormozy actually recorded a video in school about how that's their actual full ad strategy going forward.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I'm so glad to hear that.
SPEAKER_00:It was like their crossy review, it was like the only thing that they're doing right now. And then I checked their ads and it was all his best hooks podcast. And then it would change the you want to join a workshop? Here's a lead magnet to join our scaling workshop. And when I saw him running 150 of those ads, I was like, why do I need to think about it? So yeah, dude. So yeah, man, a thousand percent.
SPEAKER_04:And when I heard that coming, I was like, okay, this is it. It's the 100% is the thing. Um, so we should 100% talk about content. Um even the word content is really fucking weird. Um, so short form stuff. Uh for me, it's Instagram uh predominantly, you know, reels and carousels. I love carousels because I can I can draw shit. Uh so that's daily. Uh once a week, a micromagnet, like a like a leap magnet, but you don't have to learn anything, it just like gets you an outcome. So for us, they're often GPTs that do a job for people.
SPEAKER_01:Cool.
SPEAKER_04:We just want to shrink the gap between like promise and outcome. Uh and then once a month we run a paid workshop. So we used to do free webinars forever. Um 5% of the people who registered and showed were the let me draw. Um, is that okay?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and this is really important because anyone who's running like a webinar funnel, they think it's just like the leads in the front, but there's just there is a lot of metrics in the back, show rate, closure, on the hall, show rate off from there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. So there's like uh a workshop campaign or a webinar campaign, it's really four campaigns. You know, we've got to get people to to sign up, that's register. We got show up uh on the thing itself, you're gonna get into pay up, and then we've got follow-up for people who don't. So that's that makes sense. What we found though is every time we ran a free webinar, I don't know what you know your show is, let's call it 25%. Um 25% of people would um would actually attend.
SPEAKER_00:Is that normal?
SPEAKER_04:Uh if we if you're newer, the show rate's gonna be higher. If you've got a list that's been around a while, it's all like are they hot leads, are they cold leads? So that you know, where's the lead source? What's the topic? Blah blah blah. But let's call it a quarter. I mean, it might be 20, it might be 30, whatever. So that showed up, which means like 75% of people don't. Right? And then because we think like marketers, uh, we're like, okay, well, how do we squeeze this? How do we take that from like 25% to 30%? Incremental. But here's the thing like the dudes I want uh and and you work with are already pretty successful. Right? Successful means busy. Successful means it doesn't matter what you fucking do, they're not gonna show up. Yeah. So the biggest opportunity is in in these cats. Yeah. So we did two things. The first is what we used to do, and it's killer and you should steal it. And the second is what we do now, and that's even cooler for me. Um so we started running this thing that we call the the webinar that doesn't matter. And it didn't matter because I'm gonna teach great stuff because that's who I am. But the people I really wanted weren't gonna show up anyway, right? So we go um registration page, thank you page. Uh and we just realized that, hey, the dudes we really want are the dudes who like the only thing they're 100% gonna see is this page. They're not gonna come because the next step is like you know, webinar itself. Yeah. So here we just put a little video where it's like, hey, thanks so much for registering for the session. We're gonna cover XYZ, A, BC, it's gonna be amazing. Um, if you want to learn how this thing works, workshop's gonna be really great and hands-on. But if you just want the outcome and you wanna go faster, uh instead of sitting through the workshop, you can click below and book a quick call with one of one of my specialists. And six, like if you're running webinar to book a call, we were getting like 66% of our book calls from people who never showed up to the webinar just off this page.
SPEAKER_00:So sorry, of all the calls you booked, 60%, 60%, 67% of them had never been to the webinar.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, they registered but didn't show. That's crazy. It's killer.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's crazy.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so that's like the webinar, that's why the webinar doesn't matter. It's killer. Um, so that was the first thing we changed. Um super, super fun.
SPEAKER_00:And it's interesting if you look at the other side as well, if we go back, the biggest thing here is it's optimizing for proximity and speed. Right. Because the webinar may feel, even though it's online, it may feel close, but it's not. Some guys like you're pretty high logic. Yeah. You're also, because you're very creative as well, you're probably a mix of like logic and emotion. For me, I'm more high logic, so I can just like I want to go there fast. So I would never register for something unless I'm going to buy it. I would never correct. You know?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Often I'll I'll see something and I'll find a way to find the the dude and like DM them, hey, what's the thing you're selling at the end? Yeah. Okay. And then what's the thing after that? Can I buy it now and skip all the steps?
SPEAKER_00:And that's the beautiful part of marketing is that when you promote one thing, it showcases all the other stuff.
SPEAKER_04:A hundred percent. So really what we're talking about here is we're giving the there's two kinds of people in the world. There's information gatherers. So you know, they're happy to take the stairs. And then there's there's you know, people who just want the outcome. And they just want the they just want to take the elevator straight up. So this is giving the people who want to take their time a chance to you know jump on the thing, that's fine. But the people you really want are gonna skip those steps and just want the lift elevator.
SPEAKER_00:Can you optimize for this in your business?
SPEAKER_04:1000%. Yeah, that's exactly what we do right now. So um, can we do one more webinar thing and then we'll talk about that?
SPEAKER_00:Of course. Yeah. I mean, they're they're awesome, by the way. And I love that you have your own iPad, so it's super interactive on your side.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I can't think without a pen. Like, I've got this um every year we holiday in um on the Amalfi coast in Italy and we say with this amazing uh brother and sister law, Chiro and Livia. And Italians do this a lot, you know, lots of hands. And Ciro's like, Oh my, you think I'm bad. My dad uses his hands so much that if burglars ever broke in and they just bound his hands together, he'd be like, I know what a call for help just because his hand I'm I'm like that. So here's what we found. Um, so we've been running free webinar for like probably 15 years, like once a month, 15 years, a long last time. Okay. I'm old. Uh here's what happened. We do these um uh one, two, three, four. This is gonna be vaguely accurate. Um we'd run these these things, and so we talked about show rate and webinar that doesn't matter and stuff. But the super interesting thing for me was what percentage of the people who actually you know register or show up are the people I actually want for Black Bot. Because for us, Black Bot is you're doing$10,000 a month as coach and you want to grow from there. And every market's got like the best of the best, the desperates, and the squishy middle. Um, and in the coaching space, there's lots of people who are just earlier stage. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's just like where they're at. But Black Belt, the invitation I want to make at the end isn't for them because it's for people who've already like started. So here's what we found is five percent of the people who would register and show, because we we get um when they register, we get them to drop, you know, radio button. Yeah, you know, my startup or my growing or my scaling, whatever. Only 5% of the people were actually qualified dudes. And 50, uh 95% were this is gonna this is gonna sound rude, you know, broke tie kickers. Right. That's true. Yeah, nothing wrong with them. Like when I was early stage, I was like trying to get all the free information I could, right?
SPEAKER_00:Um And it I think if you even see it on a bell curve, like you talk about uh the guys on the left and guys on the right. It's really lots of guys on the left. Yeah, but because of distribution, like even like wealth distribution, there will always be that bracket. 100% right, and it's like you can't, especially in your organic anyway, you can't like negate that to some degree. Correct. If you look at the biggest guys in the world, Hormosy or Iman, or any of this, they pull in a lot of people that are targeters. Of course. You just can't not do it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you can't not do it. So, but I want to optimize for clients, not for audience. Yes, I've got no excitement about going viral, but I want to be super attractive to the people who I can do great work with. So like um 95% information seekers, five percent your perfect future clients. You know, and you spend money and you there's a lot of work for the the wrong dudes. And so we made one simple change, dude. Uh September last year, we went from free to pay webinar to paid workshop. So maybe two changes. This is a workshop, it's better, it's hands-on and useful, but we just started charging a hundred bucks for it. I mean, a hundred bucks is like nothing, and the price point doesn't really matter, it's just the difference between free and a dollar is night and day.
SPEAKER_01:Commitment.
SPEAKER_04:Commitment. Um so just that change took us from five percent qualified to um come on, Penn. There we are. To 55% qualified just by charging money.
unknown:What?
SPEAKER_04:It's nuts, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Um what was a percentage drop off? Oh no, sorry, in terms of registrance, like how much registrants we had before.
SPEAKER_04:Um so we got really good data on this. We'd get um and it's growing every month, but I'll start with like where we started because that was like our first experiment. Uh we used to get say 700's not good with his pens. 700 people um to register. I mean like uh somewhere between one and two hundred or whatever it is to show. Um the first time we did this, I think we had 340, maybe 40 register, so like half. But they've paid 100 bucks. Uh the every month it's gotten better and better and better. The last one we did, we had 706 people pay$100. Oops. These these monthly workshops are about to become a million-dollar business, crazy, which is super fun. Um, and they're really juicy and useful. Uh and um, you know, 55% of the people are the people we can actually help. So I think this is a really long answer to whatever the question was 20 minutes ago. I apologize.
SPEAKER_00:Question is like, how did you replace your acquisition strategy? And this makes sense because based on leverage.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, this is a piece of it. So I'd say there are three main places where this shows up for us. Um, we're not gonna go through all of this. I'm just gonna so this is what our marketing plan looks like uh for us and for all of our clients. Uh, we're gonna start at the back delivery, where it doesn't like something short, like your 5k or something, like your your big program. For us, we're selling monthly recurring revenue because I like simple cash flow. Um, so we start with what are we selling? Then we want to set up the offer with you know, five things. It's a promise, it's um bonuses, it's urgency and scarcity, it's risk reversal, uh, it's payment plan. Um so that's the that's that piece. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Let's double tap on this because I think um as you know, your video you had on this was amazing the other day, and it highlighted to us as well what we kind of have, but we weren't optimizing for it. Yeah. So I think what was the big inflection point for you? Because I think a lot of even the big names in the coaching industry. Yeah, they're all cash up front. Yeah, of course. And they might be right. I might just be an idiot. But but it but you're not though, because your uh lifetime value in terms of duration is 18 months, whereas that's a sharp contrast to the average of six months at best. Yeah, like a lot of people, they'll bring them down, and what we had to do was we have to give them something else. But it sounds like that in contrast, yours is more it's more like getting them more committed on a longer time horizon so that you can work together on new.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because I can pull, like I can press three buttons and pull some levers and get somebody like some jackpot wins. That's fun. Yeah. But to like you've got some really big goals. It's you're not gonna hit your big goals with some magic tricks in three weeks. It has to be really reliable. Right. Like it's gonna take a while. And so we're always optimizing for like quick win right now for client so that they get like the dog mean hit and these guys are legit and it's worth staying. Um, with long-term, steady, stable growth. Um, here's the problem with, by the way, be careful with anyone who tells you that their way's the only way.
SPEAKER_00:100%. Okay. So just one of those. 100%, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:There's big benefits of the short-term stuff. Here's the thing. If you think about your three month, six months, twelve-week, whatever it is program, like a conveyor belt, um, we work really, really freaking hard all months to get dues to buy. You know, ads and setters and then all the stuff. People join and they go through the process and they get to the end. And what happens? Well, they end. And so then what do you have to do? Well, then you have to like write back to the start of the equation, like, do this again, and every month you start back at zero. I freaking hate that. Um I've got six kids, Ethan, who's 23 now, when he was young, we spent heaps and heaps of time in Westmid Kids Hospital, um, terrible palsy and operations, and it was hard. But I wanted a business that was simple and stable, and plus or minus 10%. I knew what money was going to come in in uh hello dogs. Today's episode is sponsored by the Hounds. Um I just wanted a business that was like simple because life was super chaotic. And for me, simple is recurring subscriptions. Um, you know, if I work really hard this month, I can bump it up. If I don't, it's stable. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think this model is kind of interesting. Um we just shrink it down a little bit so we can add. There's nothing wrong with this kind of hero, you know, short-term front-end model. But I think there's two opportunities. It's like, number one, can we people have an option they can end or can we extend? It's like, hey, we've done the stuff. Would you like a bit more time? And we're handholding you till we get the outcome. I think that's cool. Or there's there's ascent. Um, so I think that's completely fine. Uh I just kept business super simple and I'm just like, I'm just gonna sell the sorry man, I just realized. Yeah, I just sell this thing. Um, because I like it.
SPEAKER_00:Um personal preference is super important for a business. A thousand percent. You know, that's where I think obviously someone like yourself who's in this for many years, you know the different tactics and frameworks and tools and underlying principles. Yeah, but then it's like I like this one, I don't like this one. Not necessarily because it's bad or good, but just because of preference. And then you can live, you can like live your business into it. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_04:A million percent. So with that like 650 people, we've helped to get to a million bucks a year, which is super cool. But if you look at all of their businesses, they all look different. They're not like I I'm not trying if I created 650 Taki lookalikes, I've done a bad job. Yeah. Because I want to like customize the mix like I'm a audio engineer at it, you know, at a sound, yeah, at a music festival. I don't only want to like dial the mix in so it's perfect for you and perfect for you and perfect for you.
SPEAKER_00:Um I think that is what that gives you. It's funny, this is a black belt, right? It's looking at the rules and being like, okay, this one applies to you. And this one we're gonna break on purpose for this one, yes, yeah, versus like run all the calls like this, run all your content like this. So that doesn't that doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so if you're gonna run it, if you are gonna run a call, we've got a process for the calls. Um if you're gonna do something else.
SPEAKER_00:I'm interested. For your front end, yeah, do you run a LinkedIn strategy?
SPEAKER_04:No.
SPEAKER_00:I'm surprised by that.
SPEAKER_04:No, I don't I don't wear shoes or ties. I don't think they'd have me.
SPEAKER_00:Man, I think you'd crush it.
SPEAKER_04:I probably would.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I probably would. And it's not necessarily the so it's the what comes out your mouth in short form in text. That's it. Mouth text. Because your copy is so good for emails, yeah, that it's like that format uh would work so well on LinkedIn. And you gotta think about it. On Instagram, you're competing against you know, Hermozzi, all the big guys, on LinkedIn, you're competing against Ross from accounting in in JP Morgan, right? Like the standard is so old. Yeah, that it's just like it's so easy to break true. And yeah, I think LinkedIn would be the audience.
SPEAKER_04:I think LinkedIn would be great. I'm uh I'm really deliberately focused on like one short form platform, one long-form platform, and email. That will change some stage in the future. I really like X as a platform, like personally, to consume. Like I I love Twitter. Um I've got a LinkedIn account. I've maybe twice in 15 years I've logged in.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, we're gonna warm that up for you in like 2026. That's great.
SPEAKER_04:Like Matt Lakiev, who's been on the on the pod, is a great friend and a good client. Um he surely pushed you on that. Yeah. But I'm pretty happy right now. It's fine. But thanks for trying. Um okay, so the three pieces which are big for us are short form content, like we talked about, um posted daily, uh, weekly, micromagnet, hand raiser offer to get people from there into email. Uh email is where the money gets made. And then this year I we've started the long form. And I reckon like if you're over 30k a month, long form's super great. If you're under, I'd stick with short form and add long form later. Good point. Um, and this is mostly just about reps. When you're just getting started, uh you're not good yet. And it takes a while to like learn your voice, learn the market, learn, you know, the the content messaging game. And you can just like, if you're doing something daily, you can like do it, review it, iterate, like test much quicker. Whereas like I'm doing one or two YouTube vids a week in order to get a hundred reps, it's gonna take me a year or two. Yep. Whereas I can do this in three months.
SPEAKER_00:I think the long form is quite interesting because YouTube was sold as, oh yeah, you can get clients on autopilot because it's evergreen. But I think there's like a bit of an inverse relationship because in the beginning it is a slow burner. I guess call that the awareness platform. Yeah, and then Instagram LinkedIn is a conversion platform. Yeah, it allows you to be able to kind of connect with your prospects. The long form can be your short form once you're speaking and your voice is dialed in. So for me, it's long form is never like I'm trying to get clients from this. It's more I'm trying to raise the levels of awareness to my prospects to be like, I like this guy, yeah. He's legit. Yep. And then they take the next step on the other platforms, which are like I call these platforms like crack cocaine, right? They're just the lights are always on, it's like a casino 24-7.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, for us, here's what's really interesting. Like I had I got some really good advice about YouTube. And I was like, um, have no expectations. Go in knowing you're gonna do this. Like, I was like, we're gonna do this for a whole year, yeah. And probably nothing's gonna happen. And that's okay because like long term I know I'm building an asset. I got super, super lucky. We signed our first 30k client 30 minutes after first video. I was like, holy crap, I did not expect something. Then, you know, expectation should a root. Yeah, Tacky said the poker machine like pulling the slides. Come on, we're gonna get lucky. Um, it's worked out incredibly well. Uh we um we open Black Belt once a month for a week. Um, there's a sneaky back door that people can find through YouTube, which we'll talk about, like the sales funnel in a second. Um so last month we had to like close the doors super early because eight people had already like captured 30 spots. Eight of the spots had already gone before we even got to the open because people found it through YouTube. Um the workshops we've talked about um here. So like I've learned heaps about that, I've learned heaps about that, and this last year and a half I've like obsessed with this. And we just take people, we used to go to calls like like um like you do you guys do, and like many people do. So we've got a whole lot of like appointment engine funnel. Um but for us, we don't do that any anymore, and we don't do that anymore. Our world just goes, you know, lead generation here, lead nurture here. We used to chat, but we don't. Um and it basically goes long form and email, and there's a VSL that is the bridge between YouTube and the offer doc.
SPEAKER_00:I'd love to talk about um when you swap the sales calls, uh no sales calls. Um, like obviously the business doubled, like uh sort of qualitative metrics were up. Yeah. But was there any like feedback just from clients or prospects being like, oh, like I'm ready to pay, but I just need half on a call? Like, was there what was there any friction in that transition? Um and just it could even be smaller things, but I mean because that's probably the fear for people, right?
SPEAKER_04:So the fear Yeah, I mean I like to be honest, I was convinced is strong, I was pretty sure that we could pull it off. But I had a bunch of resistance, like I didn't know if it would work, and I had a ton of resistance from the team. Uh obviously the sales team didn't have the plan.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was like, because they're gonna lose their job.
SPEAKER_04:Right. That like they were a bit nervous, understandably so, but like all of us were like well, this is an experiment, it might completely fail, and I'm gonna have to come back in three months with egg on my face and saying I was dead wrong. So uh for me, the scare was less about people saying. Well, I need a call and more about internal resistance, like both mostly the team. I was like, I've got I'm pretty risk tolerant. And um just like with YouTube, I'm gonna give this a year. So we um got to Christmas last year, we let the sales team know that um we were gonna test out this new thing and that most of them weren't required. We kept three. Uh and I literally locked them in a cupboard on full pay for three months. Like we're just gonna take the average of what you've done the last three months or over the year or whatever it was. I'm gonna pay you that, but please don't talk to anybody, don't respond to any DMs, don't take a call, nothing. Uh because I need the experiment to be pure. I tried to like test both and it was hard. Yeah. Um not scientific. Yeah, and it's like yeah, just like cross-messaging and like anyway. So it was like, lock I've been a cupboard for three months, I want to test this out, and I just want to see if we can like match your sales. And so at the end of the first month, we matched the sales. Maybe we maybe we beat it by one, I can't remember, but like it was very close. But that was encouraging. And I was like, this is um January to March. And the goal was we're gonna do this for three months. At the end of I'll have an experiment. So at the end of three months, we're gonna look back. Did we match their sales? What other problems did it? Like there's still sales, but like there's still my big honestly, my biggest fear was like, what if the wrong people get in? Because in our world, the sales teams we had this incredible salesperson, Vanessa, she's extraordinary. And she would do the um, you know, the can we help them? And are they a good match? But the the core filter that she did, and I'm so grateful for her for this, was like, is this the sort of person that Taki would have over the dinner with the kids?
SPEAKER_00:Strategical filter.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because like especially if you run a live event, like online you can maybe hide it a little bit. If you run a live event, all it takes is one fuckwit and you've ruined the whole event. It's like you've got a pool. I don't care how beautiful the day is, how nice the pool is, if someone's shouting that pull, I'm not getting in. And that's what having one bad client at an event is like. So she would she did a great job of that. Uh so my big fear, honestly, was like, what if the wrong people get in?
SPEAKER_00:Changes the culture of the program, changes to ethos.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and like running when you run a community, like the community is the product.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%. Um And that's so important for for boardroom, right? Because it's basically it's basically a network. Correct. And then obviously they learn shit between each other and so on, but it's like it's a network first almost.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. It's a network first, agreed. So um let's just put a bow around three things we're three things we're doing. Um actually, we'll just talk YouTube because I think it's cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the content side's really good, and especially I'd love you to lean into how you hated your life with content. Yeah. And especially I see this a lot because your prospects can often feel it. Yeah. Yeah, the sales, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So this is what was going on, bro. Um, if this is um if this is sales, and this is marketing. Uh like to be super blunt, marketing was shit. We had a content agency who was creating our stuff. Not these guys, to be super clear. Like they just want to be clear, and there's nothing wrong with that strategy, but like they were just like taking stuff that I taught to Black Belt, getting the transcript, turning it into articles and emails. And it was like beige as hell. It was like sort of what I tried to say. Like, imagine like you water it down 80% and then said 80% as well. It's like sort of one of them to say sort of how I'd say it. And it just didn't feel like me. And I'd read my own emails with my name at the bottom, and I just feel this like shame, like sinking feeling at the bottom of my stomach, just going, oh man, this is embarrassing.
SPEAKER_00:I think the biggest thing there is the fact that you are really good at marketing. So it's like you're taking away your baby. Whereas if you were just like random Joe Soap who has a corporate company, it's like it's like I need someone to do it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I'm selling donuts or or widgets. I don't really care. I just want to sell donuts.
SPEAKER_00:But you're you're like not necessarily your backrooms in marketing, but it's like your thing is marketing. So it's kind of like giving away, it's like kind of get trying to get someone to do your workouts for you. Dude, how good would that be? Sorry. Your life would be great. But if you're someone who enjoys working. Back to it, hoi. Yes, Mr. Tucky. So it's like, of course, he's gonna he's gonna screw it up, right?
SPEAKER_04:It's like it's really hard. And like, yeah, so the sales team had to work really, really hard because marketing wasn't doing its job. There's this great quote by Naval, which is like, you're doing sales because you failed at marketing. It goes on to say you're doing you're doing marketing because you failed at product product.
SPEAKER_00:And again, with us we discussed earlier, which is if your offer sucks, right? What are you creating content on? Yeah, and now you can't close a sale.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, if the best part of your offer is people buy it, yes, but then it all goes downhill, okay, we've got other issues. Um so I was like, what would happen if we could do that? I like to think we're there, we're we're really like here. Like marketing's we're just getting started, bro. But like there's no sales, so let's call it there.
SPEAKER_00:Um and so Yeah, that's fair to that's definitely fair to say, you know, it's 99% marketer.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. 100%. And the way we filter people now is like they they consume content, so they've got they've got a vibe. Uh they fill in this big lengthy application and they put down$1,500. And then we review the application in 24 or 48 hours and we run the same test. Like, can we help this person? Is their niche right? Is there any red flags? If there is, we'll go back with a couple of questions. And depending on the month, um, 70% of the applications we approve, and 30% we say thanks, but no thanks, and we refund the money. Crazy.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Where did you learn that? Um, just felt like the right thing to do. Mum taught me not to be a dick and we kind of kept it going.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's really interesting in terms of getting the pay for the application. Well, yeah, it's just like less steps. It's an extra step, no? If they pay, if they put in the 1500 deposit, yeah. It's an extra piece of friction. Yeah, if it's an application.
SPEAKER_04:But I mean it works. But I don't want to like approve someone and then go, okay, well, now you've got a chance to like do it on it. And I'm in follow-up chase mode, and then there's no one to chase and no one to follow up, so then just get it done.
SPEAKER_00:And then they're they have like a 60-day love it or leave it or something like that.
SPEAKER_04:Correct. And so the qualification piece that we used to do in sales now happens in that love or lead it period. Got it. Because the coaches have full right to go, yeah, I think we missed on this guy. And we just go, hey, I don't think it's I don't think we're right for you. Try this cat instead. Nice. Um dude, it's really fun. We're like um 30 to 40 new clients a month um for black belt and some boardroomers, and it's frictionless. Like it's just a beautiful little system.
SPEAKER_00:I think what's one thing that's an interesting observation of your business is the price tag.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Like it's it's pretty high for people that are making like 10k a month. You know, if they're on the lower end for black belt, yeah. Where did you settle on that price? It's in around, you know, it's like multiple, it's like 20k, 30k. You know, that seems on the higher side for people that are like not entry-level, but you know, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_03:So there's an argument. Yeah, correct.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I had someone message this morning. Uh, she got an invite to come to buy a ticket to our boardroom event in Plum Springs next month. And she's like, Oh, I'm just tossing up between this and Alex Hornosi's event. It's 5k for two days, and yours is 15. Any flexibility on the price? I'm like, so my first email back was Um If our roles were reversed, would you send this message to Alex? And then I was like, that's a bit harsh, but it's true. So I was like, no, that's true.
SPEAKER_00:Um and that wouldn't have happened. No, of course not.
SPEAKER_04:I was like, who the hell are you? So um, yes, it's it percentage of revenue-wise, if you're doing 10 grand a month, it's a chunk. So what we do is we stair step the pricing. I don't know if you know this, um where it's two and a half grand a month, but the first two months are less. So it's 1500, and then it's two grand, and then it's uh 2500 times 12. Um and we do that because future money is easy to spend. Um and our job in the first, like frankly, it's in the first 30 days, but 60 out max is to uh ROI these dudes.
SPEAKER_00:It's kind of blows up, yeah, and to return her.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, correct. And so um we have uh we had a kickoff call on Tuesday, uh, you know, the people from October just started on the first Tuesday of the month. And um we talk about this idea, like this is how much it is. Uh how much do you charge for your stuff? X, how many clients do we need to pay for that? And the moment they hit it, they just type hashtag paid for black dot in the group, and we have a race.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome.
SPEAKER_04:Um and this dude's like, oh yeah, because when they when they as soon as they're approved, they get access to this training called uh 10k in 10 minutes. It's like six short videos, each one's takes 10 minutes to learn, 10 minutes to do, design to make you money. This dude's like, oh I already I already made my 10 grand like two weeks ago from you got approved, got the access and stuff, like sent the first message, paid for. So if we haven't got them an ROI early, then either we've chosen a wrong fit client or we're not doing our job.
SPEAKER_00:And that's a perfect segue into delivery.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because I think that's something that, as we joked about earlier, it's overlooked. I don't know why. And it's actually outrageous. I've actually taken a I've actually done a lot of look into this though with the past couple of weeks because my take on this is a lot of the guys that are younger in the space who are providing these coaching programs, other guys that are buying it. I feel that a lot of it is being they're selling the mechanism. So whether it's ads or follower ads or you know, create YouTube videos, but they had like an edge, and that was what got them kind of known, so from a marketing perspective. But then that edge, the market had caught up. So now anyone can deliver that that server. So let's say it's follow ads as an example. Yeah, then the next logical step from there, their sales have gone down. But instead of focusing on products, so how to get amazing results, they focus on the next mechanism. Okay. So it goes through this kind of inflection point. Yeah. Whereas, you know, as I can clearly see, like your product is just so there's so much nuances to delivery to be able to get the result. Yeah. Uh, and hopefully, like we're we're really focused on the product to get the results as well. But it's something that's just like wildly overlooked. And I want to get your take on like why that is.
SPEAKER_04:Um well, it's because it's not sexy. Like we teach a really simple model, you know, attract, get leads, convert, make sales, deliver amazing results at scale. Uh once a month we run a paid workshop and we pick you know some of the mechanisms from Black Dots of theme that workshop around. If I do a deliver-focused workshop, like here's what to do with the clients you've got, yeah, my child rate's gonna be way, way lower. Part of that is because most of the market is pretty needy and that they've got like bleeding problems over here. The truth is, like Naval's right, if you got product right, the thing just grows. And every client you get is a client that you add, not one you have to replace. Um, I remember chatting with Alex and Layla when I first met them years and years ago, and they were talking about the ratio of uh new clients from marketing versus referral. Like most people don't get nearly enough referrals because the product's not like worth talking about.
SPEAKER_00:We set a double tap on that, which was uh increasing the referral percentage quite significantly. It's like 20% there, roughly. And uh, whenever someone gets a win, we just tell them, like, instead if they'll tell us like a huge win, I'm like, amazing. If you know a friend that wants to grow to our business with content, can you let them know? And we'll also give you 20%. You know, and 20% on 20k is$4,000 for just telling your friend. So it's like a it's like an auto response now from us. Yes, that's good. And then if we if we close.
SPEAKER_04:Can I give you can I make it even better? Go ahead. So I love everything about that. The one thing, this is a test, like it's not a rule of law, it's a rule of thumb. Some people refer for the cash. Most people refer because when they do it makes them look good.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, they're like referrers, they're someone who naturally does the correct. Matthew Reiter uh told me about this. Okay. Yeah, that's that's where I learned it from.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. So if you take the, let's say you've got this 4K available and you go, hey, so um uh if you tell your friends about us and they join, we'll give you two grand and two K off their first payment. And then you go, hey, by the way, this has been amazing for me. I can get you two grand off.
SPEAKER_00:Next payment, you mean their next payment? Oh, sorry.
SPEAKER_04:Um So it's uh the current deal is uh I have a win and I tell my friend and you give me four grand. Yeah. Okay, so we've got four grand to play with. You can let's if we take the 4K, we can either give the 4K to the new guy or we can split it 50-50. I get two, they get two as a discount off their thing. I'm much more likely to tell my friends because like now I look good because I'm not just telling you about this cool thing and introducing you, but I but I've got a hookup.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm making them win. That's awesome. That's also awesome.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you think about people refer for their reasons, not ours. I haven't seen that many like maybe I'm just like super weird about this, but like the sell me your friends approach feels odd to me. But I love like something where we both win.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. 100%.
SPEAKER_04:Or even the even if you took the 2K referral fee out and you just did um, I'll give your friend$2,000 as a gift from you, that will work just as well.
SPEAKER_00:It's consistency bias, though, right? If they're happy with their decision, they want to align their decisions with that previous decision. Correct. So Matthew's example here was when they would sell to someone on a phone and the first one would buy it, they would just say, Hey, like, do you if you have anyone else that also wants X? Yeah. And then they're like, Yeah, absolutely. And then they would open up the door of it. And I think I really realized that I was someone who refers people when we started working with someone recently, and they said, Hey, like, we'll give you like a discount if you refer us. And I was like, Look, I'm gonna do that anyway. Yeah, and within the first week, I had mentioned to a bunch of my clients, like, this guy's solid, go speak to him. Yeah, and then I kind of thought myself, like, oh, I'm someone who naturally does that. Right.
SPEAKER_04:And so part of your job is to not just do it, like if you want more of it, is to explain that's how people like us play to your clients.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and that's how you do well. Right, of course. That's what the world is, right?
SPEAKER_04:So there's this, there's this cat, um Brad Sugars. It's like a business coach guy from Australia from a long time ago. I've never done this, but I think I find it very exciting, and I'm I've been too chicken to do it. Um at the point of sale, he would say that we'd get to price, and go so well, there's two prices there's regular price or there's referral price. Which would you like? And they're like, well, what's the difference? Well, regular price is 20 grand, referral price is 16. And how it works is if you send us three friends. I think that's an interesting conversation you set it up anyway.
SPEAKER_00:But I think a lot of this is based on creativity. And I think you know, you have a great product, and then the offer has to be new and exciting. So I'll give you an example. I have a client right now, guy based in Sydney, who's a recruitment agency, and recruitment is traditionally boring. Yeah. So he places executives in a business and it's AK. Yeah. So I said, okay, how do we make this fun, new, novel, unique, and different? I said, ring everyone and just tell them that if you buy two, you get one executive free. And he was like, I've never heard of that. And I was like, that's why you should do it. That's it. And then the best part was when someone says, Oh, I have resistance because I'm not going to buy now until 2026. They do a pre-payment. They pay today and they can utilize their tree resources in 2026. And he was like, It's never been done before that I know. And I was like, do it. Yeah. And he did it. And everyone was like, I love this. Of course. Karen from HR is like, I get a deal. They save a ton of money. Correct.
SPEAKER_04:And it's just and they get up front capture right now that they can spend it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it just sparked something in his brain. Yeah, that's good. And then he's like, Where do you think of this? And I was like, I just made it up. Because you you have to have that element of creativity. And back to your point about hating your own marketing, if you're so bogged down in whatever that may be, yeah, you can't think about this stuff. You can't think about how do I make something new and exciting. And that's why the Apple product is amazing, undoubtedly. But the way that the box looks is equally important. Of course. Right? And it's just it's the offer.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, agreed. Yeah, I think that's 100% right. I think not enough coaches think about the thing that they're selling and like the information's enough. Like if all we needed was perfect was information, we'd all be like billionaires with perfect bags.
SPEAKER_00:What what do you think about like the cost or the value of information going to zero, especially with AI?
SPEAKER_04:Uh yeah, that's probably I think I think it's always been true. I think information is either wants to be free or really expensive. Um so on YouTube, my whole strategy is like give freely of the information. I'm like this from a cat called Justin Rothmarsh, one of my first ever interviews. And that's like, you know, when you hear something, you're like, okay, that's how I'm gonna think about it. It's like give when you give freely of the information, you earn the right to charge a premium for implementation. People aren't um like we're drowning in information, but what we really need is some insight and some wisdom to apply it and then to work with you on. I think there's a spectrum between I'm selling a product or I'm selling proximity. Um early stage people are looking for info, free stuff, you know, not free stuff or or you know useful stuff. Um in the middle, your black belt is black belt is um is more about the implementation, like it's insight and implementation, and then boardroom 100% is about speed and proximity. And so depending on who your audio, like if they're whatever stage they're at, I think they need different things and they buy for different reasons.
SPEAKER_00:But I think even if you're an early stage coach, the way that we design this and you know, I'm open to your feedback is that for proximity and speed. Can I draw?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So like the way that I also notice by the way, no one's ever drawn on my iPad before. Oh right, missing. So what I think about is like you have proximity here. Yeah. And then you have speed. Yeah. And then I believe my approach, anyways, for a lot of guys who have coaches, coaching programs or agencies, the highest proximity, highest speed is going to be like one to one. Yeah. Or it's actually in person. So if I move into your house in Noosa, that's the best, right? But everyone can have this because you don't have to design anything. You just have to, you just have to have to have it.
SPEAKER_04:The problem shows up and you fix it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then it's like we if we're optimizing for this, because we don't have many of them, yeah, we catch everyone else back here or group, yeah, where it's slightly pulled back. Yeah. But this can just be automatic. So I feel like once you crack the problem you're solving, so what's that problem you solve? Yeah. Then it comes to the point of okay, the delivery mechanism. Yep. So a lot of people that I end up working with even as their agency, they'll just have one and they'll literally shoot themselves in the foot and the head simultaneously because they're saying no to money. Yeah. Whereas the example, so let's say the my client with a recruitment agency, he has the agency, but if the company has enough recruits, he just does advisory work. Yeah. And it's a fraction of the cost. It's like ripping my brain. Yeah. Where it's like, he's just gonna make way more money. And I think a lot of times people are asking for permission, and I'm like, dude, like this will work out of the box, versus like me right now building a software company, and it's like we're six months out from someone being able to click on board. Yep, yeah. And hundreds of thousands of dollars also on the process.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I think I think a lot of this is just creativity, though. Like it's just looking at your business creatively and thinking, like, where can I get more out of what I have? Yeah. So looking at your pipeline, looking at your CRM versus optimizing for one thing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So there's always opportunities for more. I I don't have a problem with leaving money on the table. Like, I'm if it's a conscious choice, if you're just doing it because you don't know better, well, that that should be fixed. Like we had a program for early coaches um called clients, designed to get you to 10 grand a month. It was really, really good. 12 months ago, I pulled it off the market and I haven't sold it for a year, which cost us three million bucks this year on purpose.
SPEAKER_00:What was the uh outcome?
SPEAKER_04:Sorry, get to$10,000 a month as a coach.
SPEAKER_00:So I uh that's a tough offer to run because it's a lot of info you need to teach people in terms of like the skill acquisition. Yes. They low, low skill, low experience. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:They're they're totally low skill, low experience, low confidence, high fear. Um but we did we've done really, really well with it. But I pulled it from the market at the end of last year because a few things have changed, and like the two of the lead generation pieces didn't work like they used to, and then they did an upgrade. So I'm like, well, I could still sell it, but I can't get them an outcome. So what the fuck am I collecting money for something that doesn't work? That's not cool. So uh before that started happening, like people uh there's a bunch of cats that you know who started them clients and then got to 10 grand a month and then did really well and then are now in boardroom. So yeah, it's killer. But anyway, so I pulled it off the market a year ago and it's cost me three mil. Super happily. We're about to relaunch it in a week or two. Um uh like a public launch January, um, pilot group October. Um, but what's changed because they are low skill and they're da da da da, obviously the strategies have to be right. And then now with AI, um I used to think about uh thinking about the people in our space, they're really on a spectrum, and you've done both of these really well. Um, you know, one end is um do it yourself. Here's the content, good luck, course. And at the other end is like done for you. Let's just take care of this. This is typically um great for the coach. All care, no responsibility, good money. Easy shit for the client because they 3% of people even finish the fucking course, let alone do anything with it, let alone do it well enough to actually get a result. It's disastrous, especially in 2024. It's a wrought, dude. That's not okay. Um, the other end of the spectrum, done for you, great for the client. They either get an amazing result or they fire you. That's fine. Really hard for the agency or with a coach, right? Like low margins, high pressure, da-da-da. So years ago, I was like, okay, well, there's got to be a better way than those two. And so we kind of um invented this term uh done with you. That was you. Yeah. What? Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's fine.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But that's awesome though, because like there was so much issues with this, so much issues with this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so we're just like, okay, so what when this is like, I'm gonna teach you the thing, I'm gonna give you the template, and we're just gonna pour your content and your personality until it's come come out great. So that like for 10 years we've been running that, and it's been really good. But now with AI, like we can help people get. I haven't seen that many examples of like AI tech AI take someone from great to like really great, but I've seen a ton of I've taken you from like not that good to good enough.
SPEAKER_00:At the skill.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Sales is the best example, correct? Because back in the day you'd have to have someone washing your calls, yeah, and now you can have all your calls reviewed. Yes. But that was real-time feedback. It's amazing, right? You can go from being at a one to like a six, correct, to like an eight, you can do it in a month. And I don't know it to be true because I can train closures in a month.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. And so it's really good, particularly for these early stage guys, um, to get them to like able to hold their own really, really quickly. And so we call it um DXY, done accelerated for you. Oops. And so now the new clients program that like there's all of these steps, but now with AI, like I don't need to teach them as much stuff. Yeah. It's like da da da da. Voice record your answers into the GPU.
SPEAKER_00:F5.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Everything instead of. Uh and it and because um Tony and my team's amazing, we've just built a bunch of really cool tools which help people win faster. And so the clients program is coming back. But I like this was in response to the leaving money on the table. I think if it's a conscious choice, like for me, it was the right thing to do to pull it off the market, and it's the right thing to do to put it back now that it's sorted.
SPEAKER_00:I think there's something interesting here. You know, you mentioned that you can't go from like good to great. Maybe you can. I think you can with contextual AI. So that's what we're trying to do with my software, is it's just around sales. So we'll we'll be able to, yeah. I know people are reviewing transcripts for calls and so on. So like it's not transcript, yeah, it's not something that I'm optimizing for, but let's just let's just that's just a piece of it, right? The whole logic is that if you pull all the information with AI in the world, but then you just keep it under a shorter talk uh context window, it can get you from the the seven to the eight and a half, right? And I think what I'm trying to do is get people that extra inch without having to like my our whole logic is we're trying to save someone paying a hundred 150k a year for our sales manager with five years' experience. So if we can get it up to that point, but the context window needs to be like this AI is so stupid at everything else, but sales. Correct, right? And I think, and then also it learns and you got to give it a bit of love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that make sense? Totally. Um because and I and I think this is true because the copywriter guys who were amazing at copywriting, started to build out this shit with copywriting, they've actually started to crack it. It's taken about two or three years, but now they're slowly being able to get like a perfect voice. Um, now again, it's never gonna be 100%.
SPEAKER_04:I still fucking hate that. I hate that too, yeah, but there's a lot of people I love it for them. I just I'm not gonna go anywhere near it.
SPEAKER_00:But not for not for your voice, but let's say if you're if you're bringing on fucking Corbett Steve, right?
SPEAKER_04:And Corporate Steve's needs a needs a personality bias.
SPEAKER_00:Personality, exactly. So like let's introduce this to him.
SPEAKER_04:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:So I tried to take some of like that ideology, yeah. And then the biggest thing, a small bit is being actually open to it. It's like, look, this is only gonna get better. Let me kind of position myself, like what you're doing here, yeah, and allow like you saw the new opening eye updates. I didn't even check them that deeply, but all I know is that they were really extraordinary. Yeah, so it's like allowing time and Moore's law to just take place, yep. Just allowing that law to happen in the world, and it's like, let me just position myself in this wave. Uh, I'll tell you a crazy story. Tell me. So last year I was in university, I did uh engineering with business, so it's called like this kind of business information systems. Yeah. I'll never ever forget this. This actually, this conversation changed my life. Okay. And the guy was on my podcast as well. So I had a sales module, and this guy came in and uh he did this company called Work Vivo. His name was John Gooling. Okay, and it was uh as boring as it sounds, it was Facebook for internal staff in companies.
SPEAKER_04:So you know smart.
SPEAKER_00:Uh like, yo, congratulations. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And uh he was his second or third business, and he stood up at the frog at the top of the class and he goes, You could be an amazing entrepreneur in a terrible market and get swallowed, or you can be a terrible entrepreneur in the right place at the right time and kill it. Yeah, this is true. Two years later, he sold that company to Zoom. This guy was from like back ass nowhere in Ireland, and I don't know how much he sold it for in the end. And I remember distinctly, because I remember it at the time, and then two years later he sold a company to Zoom. Yeah, yeah, that's super and just he out of an Australian. That's good. And he just struck with a he struck with the other one was hot, and then I just think to myself, damn, like in this space of like coaching, can you get yourself into the right space, allow the tide to bring you up? Yeah, of course you can, 100%. And then screw up along the way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So um, I mean this amazing client, Jay. We've become really, really good friends. Uh he joined us in clients doing like seven grand a month, and and uh through Buckbone, like three million dollars a month, friend. It's a great, yeah, it's great. Um, coaches at e-commerce businesses started. By the way, I don't want this to sound like Jay's not a genius, but like e-com and COVID were kind of a matchmade in heaven. So he's like all of a sudden he's like he's caught the right wave and it's beautiful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And he spotted it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that's allowing time to get there, you know?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:He's a gun, too. I love Jay. Anything else on the delivery piece? Um getting amazing results for people.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I think we're there's a there's a bunch of things, but I think the every great coaching program is really three, you know, three chunks. Uh there's the the content, you know, the stuff we teach. Um, most people think that's what it is. It's not. Uh people buy for the content though. So like the content does matter, but it's why they buy. Um, what helps people win though, isn't the content, it's coaching. You know, help me see what I don't see, give me a different perspective, help me uh uh implement your stuff in my situation. This is like a personalization. So this is what helps people win. And then why people stay is community in large part. Let's pretend that's spells that spell right. Um, and so if you want people to buy and win and stay, we want these three pieces. And then there's a just a bunch of tools around each. Um one of the things that I I find a real challenge, like I've been doing this a long time, but I still like this is a like a needle to thread, is like, how do I balance my desire and their desire for quick instant wins with we're building foundations for something big and long term. Um and so even on the kickoff call, like the first 90 minutes that somebody has with us at the start of a month, we're like we're laying foundations for big, long term, amazing journey because it's going to take time to build something extraordinary with uh like a magic trick that we can do live on the call and get your leads before we finish and have you sign a client the next day. So I think that. That's a that's a balance.
SPEAKER_00:Um bit of a perspective shift on that though is that if that works, then that means the offer's good. You know, if they run something magical and it doesn't work, then it's like we actually have maybe an offer issue, because obviously a bunch of issues can be happening, but if there's a bit of resistance where they can't if you can't pull leads out of the Yeah, correct.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. So what it tell uh like a structural issue.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so what it tells us is yo, one of three things is gonna happen. They're gonna do it and it's gonna blow up, in which case, awesome. Uh it's gonna go okay, or it's gonna bomb. We know that the system works, so if it bombs, message is off, or the audience needs growing.
SPEAKER_00:Depending on the good point. Yeah, that's for real.
SPEAKER_04:So we is like we just we're we're really we have to work really like it's very easy for someone to go, yeah, that's great. And then if it doesn't work, then they're like, oh, we just have like this is a learning experiment. Any leads you get is a bonus, yes, you're gonna get some leads. But really, we're here for market feedback. This is the quickest way I know to go do I have a responsive market and am I saying the right stuff? Um yeah, sometimes you mean, sometimes you learn, and both are cool. Yeah. Um this has been really fun. Can can we chat about about YouTube and about content from a minute? Thanks, Brian. Um can I give you my whole youth uh YouTube strategy and like 10, yeah. So remember before we had that page called the system, and one of the options was like an offer doc or a yeah or a point man engine. So in our world, there's like one kind of workhorse video, but it's a VSU, video sales letter. Um for us it's on YouTube, but it doesn't have to be, but it is. Um public. Yep. Public ungated. Um so that that's a bit, but it's not even very good.
SPEAKER_00:That's called a hero of USL, so everything points back to that.
SPEAKER_04:That's exactly that's exactly the strategy. And so then every week there's a long form bid, you know, 10, 20, whatever it is, minutes. Useful. And each of those videos has two CTAs, one for some kind of content upgrade, like a micromagnet. You know, if you like this, we built this GPT to help you do it. Amazing. Um and a secondary CTA of come and get the whole system. Uh at the end of this, um, people reach out for the offer doc and then buy stuff. So that's the that's like YouTube in a nutshell. Um and then whenever I shoot one of these feeds, I'll just shoot three reels at the same time. I know that you can like clip or repurpose long form content to short form content. If you're really good, you could probably do that.
SPEAKER_00:If you're good.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If you ever be got a speaker, yeah. We really got a speaker.
SPEAKER_04:Correct. And so instead of I don't do that. I just like I've just said the stuff, it's fresh in my head, and we just do three shorts. Yeah. Um, and that's tough to crack.
SPEAKER_00:It's possible, but it's tough to crack.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think when it bangs, it bangs, but the winner to loser ratio is for most people, isn't that great?
SPEAKER_00:Like for give you context as to how good you need to be. My speaking coach is also our client, and he's able to do it like barely. Yeah. You know, and he's a speaking coach.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, if you're talking tweets and sound bites. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Right. There's also another skill to talk about this, which is you should speak in tweets. Yeah. So I if I record a video, I usually speak with very short sentences. Yeah. And it allows things to be very easy to clip.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, that's smart.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, can I give you some advice on it? Thousand percent. Yeah. I think one thing that you could do that would fucking blow up your business is create a free course.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So create a free course on top. So basically like how to scale your coaching business, right? With no sales team or whatever, and have an iPad like this, almost have no external stuff, and just rip. Now go through your your three parts of what it is attract, retain, of course, yeah, blah blah blah. And then the main thing then is we want to showcase 100% competency and then showcase warmth with your content. Yeah. And then that as because it's going to be individual pieces of content, yeah. You can put that behind a lead magnet. So that actual free course. Yeah. Run it as even like a many chat automation Pentagram keyword into an opt-in back to YouTube.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So people can find it evergreen on YouTube. They can also find it through a wall. Yeah. And then as on the back of the email sequence, then you might have like the bump into the program, whatever that may be. Yeah. Um, but this is like the standalone piece of content. And there's like a bit of an inverse relationship with YouTube right now, which is if you go super long and you're getting the AVD average view duration, yeah, we'll actually push it more into the homepage. Yeah. So this is your client Caleb. He had a six-hour video. To be typically, he's not my client, he's my friend.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. If it's my client, amazing. I thought.
SPEAKER_00:The reason why I saw it on his page, on a homepage, was because his AVD was pretty high.
SPEAKER_04:100%.
SPEAKER_00:So even if it's 24 minutes, because you got to think about the click off, click on, that's going to hit the homepage. Think about this in context. Because let's say you got a punch.
SPEAKER_04:Free course 24 minutes. That doesn't feel the average view duration. Oh, I understand.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But yeah. Let's say if that was very like low, it's because he would click on and click off, but that AVD is still very high. So in that context, it's great compared to all the other videos on YouTube. Yeah. And this can be your standalone piece. Now, in me, we're running this as a hero VSL.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We used to have an 11-minute hero VSL. And it's just interesting because when people come into our calls, there's never ever a question anymore about mechanics.
SPEAKER_04:Because they get it, because they've seen it.
SPEAKER_00:Because the program for us, it's uh offer content sales. Yep. And it doesn't matter if you're a newbie or you're making 100k a month, it's still the same shit, right? And I just sat down inside there and just rammed through it for four hours. And I was like, it's got up and I was like, done. It was this. Yep. And I and a video. And now we're probably hitting about 50 automations a day on it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, right. 50 mini chats.
SPEAKER_00:Many chats. Because we'll either run it as organic or run it as paid, and then I'll just have keyword uh course. And that's it. And it just because the reason why I was doing this is because when I see the the blue here, it gives me like anxiety because for me, I feel with YouTube are always putting up more content.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Whereas I like to try to get the more squeeze out of the existing content.
SPEAKER_04:I understand.
SPEAKER_00:And of course, as we just discussed with the short form, there's a bit of a limitation to just clipping. So it's like, all right, how can I utilize that as ads? Yep. Many chat keywords, using it in the funnel if you're running a DM strategy. Yeah. Just to utilize the asset way more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Because otherwise you're always chasing the next video. And it's like, no, man, like this stuff is great.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How else? And the last point I'm saying this is if your VSL is very dialed in already, like I said it's 10 minutes, think about looking at it as a medium length, and then just think of making it a longer version. Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Agreed.
SPEAKER_00:Because even the longer version could point to the shorter version. Correct. Because someone's not going to watch three hours of video. Yeah. Unless they're obsessed. And the last thing we do on this is I know you're not running calls, but for also we put it in the call funnel. Yep. And then let's say we're trying to someone in DM and they have a sales issue, which is the last point of the video. We'll say, like, look, man, there's a three-hour video here. Please hit the two hours and 40 minutes. Yeah. Watch the last 20 minutes before the call. Yeah. So they didn't need to do other stuff. Correct. They have a subconscious effect that this is obviously going to work. Yep. And then they watch a point that was relevant.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's good. Yeah, yeah. We used to do video like that pre-call. Um and now we've kind of replaced the call with this. Um it's the same shape.
SPEAKER_00:It's just gonna be how it's delivered.
SPEAKER_04:A million percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I um I don't feel the content anxiety like I used to. For me, um I feel like our marketing wasn't nearly as good as it you uh needed to be because I didn't have anything cool to talk about because we weren't doing anything cool. Right? But now it's so easy. Like that that video that we were chatting about before, which is like, I'm doing cool shit. Let me tell you what I did. And I can I do that for I could do that every day for days.
SPEAKER_00:Um my friend Dakota Robertson always says, like, if you want to have like a cooler story, just do cool things. Do cool, yeah, right. Do better things of your life. Like 100% go to South America and talk about how they build businesses. I don't know, just like find something relevant that that showcases that you're just not a potato.
SPEAKER_04:This is important.
SPEAKER_00:I want to get your opinion on this too, because I feel like, again, with like the you know, democratization of information. I feel like that a lot of like coaches, they're not the same stuff, but it's like they can get results to people. Yeah. What's your opinion on the the personality type, like particularly their values and their interests, and incorporating that into their content? Yeah. Because that's what gives them the uh the buy-in to the person. 100%, dude.
SPEAKER_04:So people don't buy coaching, they buy coaches. That's true. Uh all things being equal, this guy can get me a result. That person can get me a result, this one's a potato, and this guy's kind of like me. I'm gonna choose that guy. Uh, by the way, um in my family, the word guy is a unisic term of London and demon. It could be a guy or a girl, that's really important to me. Um so I used to teach a content a content framework which was you know, four kinds of content connection, proof, value, invitation. And I think it's right, but I think the mistake is trying to do like connection content as like a standalone piece instead of just like infusing what you do with who you are. Um and so what I like to do is I think it maybe two things could be useful. Um, number one is like who are you at your best? So I'm like, what are the three words which describe you when you're at your best? And I'd be like, um cheeky, useful. Probably too cheeky and useful. Like fun and useful. Yeah. Um, and so when I hit record on a camera, the foot, like I think about those two things as magic. It's fun and it's useful. That's what I want to be. And so when I hit record, I look in the camera and the the word I say to myself is like, okay, magic. So it's rumor to be yourself at the best. Um, but then in terms of how do you bring that stuff in, I think about all of the different parts of my life as characters that might make a cameo. So I I don't know you super, super well yet, but here's a couple of characters in your story. So we've got this Bali's a character, client events is a character, the dog the dogs are 100% a character. You've got a character here in the background. Um like travel's a character, um, software. So for me, it's like um ridiculously expensive, snobby coffee is a character, right? Uh living on an island and jet skiing is a character. Manly and Sydney are uh uh manly and noosa are characters, travel's a character, obviously my fam's a character. And it's like, how do we how do we bring those things in? And we don't have to talk about them, they just have to like make a guest appearance every now and again. And that way you become like three-dimensional a bit more interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you don't need to put light to it, it just has its own like energy, right? Yeah. Use a showcase it.
SPEAKER_04:100%. So we did um three and a half years nomading around the world just before COVID. Pull the kids out of school, traveled around the world, 40 countries, 40 months. It was amazing. Uh and so I'd be like, I'd shoot my videos because that you know it's fun my job. And I'd be like, on a yacht off an island in Croatia, but I never bragged about it. I just like did my stuff with someone cool in the background. Um, and people are like, holy crap, this guy gets around. I'm like, yeah. But um, I'm not like travel vlogging. Yes. Just like there's just a character. So I think like thinking about them like cameo characters is good because they don't have to be the main event. Um, some things are like taught and things, some things are just caught. And I think those things are just caught.
SPEAKER_00:That's really good. And it's also like you don't attach yourself to it. So Bali's a great example of this because you know, if I was like, oh my god, I'm in Bali 24-7, it might have negative connotations that this guy's sitting on the beach 24-7. Yeah. But for me, it's more like it's my lifestyle, it's where I live, it's where I've lived for the last couple of years. So it almost values the point of health. Like I value health. Yeah. Because if you're here, you also value wealth, yeah. Health. And then it's like, yes, it incorporates pieces of the story. Correct. You know, so it's not like you need to shine the light on the 24-7. No.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's like one of the one of the facets of you.
SPEAKER_00:But it shows values. That's it. Yeah, it does. I think you said this to me. It was uh you said because I live in Bali, I already have like a like an independent view on things, because otherwise I'd be living at home in Ireland, right? Yeah. I think you said it to me the first time we met, yeah, there was something along that line, so I'll get the quote for it. But it's like but it shows that like it's it's a sign of like what it is you want, what it is you don't want. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Which is like the most important thing in the whole world is like knowing what you want.
SPEAKER_00:And standing for a conviction. Yeah. Anything else in the YouTube process?
SPEAKER_04:Dude, I'm sure they can watch stuff from you about how to do YouTube well. No, I'm not sure. I'm thinking I'm frothing, it's working so well. Um, can I show you something? Yeah, for sure. I don't know if this is even gonna be vaguely instant for them. Uh so I started on YouTube, uh, met this woman called Sunny Lennaduzi, who's a lovely and amazing. And she was like, um, YouTube, and she has a process for it. I tried to hire her, she kind of avoided it, really. I wrote her an offer doc and and it like for me to buy her thing and then said yes, and then said money, and then she was like, Okay, I don't really want to do this, but I'd already accepted my own offer to her. Um what? It's just a long story. Sure me. Uh but when we started, the stuff was because I'd never done it. I've been watching this cat called Callaway.
unknown:I think.
SPEAKER_04:Kane Callaway. Yeah. He's on my podcast. He's amazing. He's a cool guy. Yeah, the value per second of that guy. Like, there's no fat. It's all like all me. It's I'm like, dude, I want to be like this guy. He was a rapper, you know. Yeah, you could tell. Yeah, that was Yeah, he's got the flow. Um his scripting is so dialed. His scripting is really dialed, which is cool if you like scripting. Yes, yes. And I struggled. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, we take like a black dot idea, we'd feed it into the GPT Kane Calloway machine, spit out a script, and I'd be looking at a teleprompter reading this thing hating my life. It was awkward as hell, man. So my first few videos, the content's good, but if it felt a bit wooden, it's because I was reading the fucking script. Um such a good point. Such a good point. Like it works for some people. Yeah. But it doesn't work for me. Same. Uh, and so now I was like, okay, well, I just want to like riff. And so like season two on YouTube for me, which is like eight weeks in, uh not the actual season, but like phase two, was like, this needs to be a bit more me. And um and so I kind of built myself a little YouTube outliner. So that when I shoot a YouTube video, this is what I got. So it's like, what's the it always starts with like, what's the idea I want to talk about? And then from hanging out with Caleb and other people who are good on YouTube, they're like, you know, Sam Gardey?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:They're like, oh, we we figure out the packaging first, titles and thumbnails. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not doing that, so I should probably do that. So then I'm like, okay, what's the what's the title? Thumbnail idea. Including what the face is. This is wall face.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_04:Right. So there's like an idea for a thumbnail. It's not the thumbnail, it's the idea. I love that you make your own thumbnails. Yeah. That's so funny. I want to put my thumb, my thumbprint on all my stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Um I can't believe you opened up your iPad like you saw your thumbnail in Canva.
SPEAKER_04:And I was like, it's not Canva, dude. It's literally just a photo and I'm scribbling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's even funny. And then I'm like, so for the business, I'm like, like, this is how it starts. And then the business wants to know what's it called? Thumbnail idea. And obviously we'll split test and stuff like that. And we use one of ten to like, da-da-da. But then, like, what's the offer at the end? What's the micromanage? So that's the business bit taken care of. And then, like, there's a this is the hook. You know, what's promise, what's proof, what's my plan? And then I just like sketch out some ideas, and then I can riff. Um, I find it really, really fun. Um, so this is like phase one was like, can I get some videos out? Phase two was like, can I get some videos out which say what I want to say how it how I want to say them? Um, the next kind of iteration was like, can we lean into packaging? I'm only like four weeks in and it's already wildly better.
SPEAKER_00:Why I know this is going to be correct is because this is exactly what we do with clients. Okay. From in the agency. Because back in the day, well, not back in the day, but before we seekers allowed them to kind of do their own shit, and then people were asking for scripting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And we'd started. And of course, like it's the voices, the voice never the same. And then when we'd get feedback that, oh, the voice isn't the same. I would be like, yeah, because I haven't spent 29 years living with you. Correct. Right? So then we went, my uh partner Tom, such a genius. Yeah, he broke it into this model called 801010. So 80% are work, editing, packaging, copywriting, all that kind of stuff, 10% your brand and voice, and 10% your workload. So now we don't give people scripts. Yep. We just give them like an outline. Yep. So the example would be we did a course for someone before, it was a free course, which is like how to uh like how to like hit 20km one as a high-ticket closer. Yep. And then we just said, okay, that's that. Yep. What's in your program? The seven points of his program. Okay, they're all individual points, seven hours of video. And then he just was like, all right, go. There was no script. Yeah. Directionally correct.
SPEAKER_04:Correct. Especially if you're a coach, because like this is your freaking job. Yes. Like the delivery stuff should be fucking easy. Yeah, yeah. You do this every day. Um, so let me show you. Sometimes it looks like that. So this is for a workshop, but I use the same thing. There's these amazing post-it notes. Um, they're aesthetic electricity, so they don't stick, you can slide them around. And so you're a very tactile person. Super kinesthetic. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Uh I need to move when my brain doesn't work. Um and so yeah, even if I've got that thing, I'm literally just gonna put them out on cards and I can shuffle them around. I can have them in my pocket. Um, I've just I do very little of my actual work in the office. Like I like to be out and about. Uh and so we've just started. Okay, this is great. We've like proved we can shoot videos to camera, but I want to take the camera and go out into my world. So then the next few videos, hopefully there'll be a little bit more microadventures. Yeah. Just to because otherwise I won't do it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um that's awesome, man.
SPEAKER_04:Anyway, I don't want to teach stuff that you're really good at. No, no, like I'm just figuring this stuff out. You're a master at this.
SPEAKER_00:Not at all, man. You're an absolute legend. Anything else to wrap up on this you want to point? Like for coaches, anything we missed?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, five years of stuff. Let's can we just do one thing? Yeah. I think the like people get into coaching for three reasons. In whatever order, but like more money, more meaning. I can do deep, impactful work, and freedom. And uh it's completely okay to be, you know, the money's your thing right now, or the meaning's your thing right now, or the freedom, like whatever you choose is completely fine. I think the one thing I would say is find someone who's getting the results you want and living the life you want. Those two things is really, really important. And so, like, I'm not everyone's cup of tea, and that's great. If like if you if you're like 22 years old and you want to like hustle and scale and da-da-da, and like, or you want to go to an enterprise with like team meetings and stuff, I'm 100% not your cat. But just go, who's figured out the thing that I want and is living the kind of life that I want? And then just like latch onto them and follow. And then you just adopt it. And then once it once it starts to get lift, make sure that you give you kind of let go your grip a little bit so you can adapt it and go, okay, that's this has got me to here. But to get me to where I really want to go, I'm gonna be a bit more me.
SPEAKER_00:It's like you can follow someone's rule book to get started, and then once you know what the rules are, you break them. Yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_04:Adopt it, then adapt it, million percent.
SPEAKER_00:Man, you're an absolute legend. This is fun. Forgive you so much. We could probably do a lot more, but I know you need to run a need to chill. But dude, thank you so much. And you've been a huge help to me as well, genuinely. So I want to say a huge thank you for everything.
SPEAKER_04:My pleasure.