A Misfit Thanksgiving - Outside Insights Podcast #39

We’re officially kicking off the 2023 holiday season this week! With that in mind, I wanted to bring you some fun, lighter content to be consumed while recovering from too much tryptophan and your leftover turkey.

Thanksgiving is a time to count our blessings and to recognize our abundance and it is my hope that you spend this long weekend with your loved ones, friends and family and with your community. Thanks for being a part of my community, whether that's through Placers, Outside Insights, Opposite the Crowd or wherever our journeys may have crossed. 

This episode of Outside Insights is endearingly named the “Misfit Thanksgiving Special” and features my backpacking group and some of my longest friendships.

What is a Misfit, you might ask? If you ask old Merriram Webster, a misfit is a person whose behavior or attitude sets them apart from others in a conspicuous way, IE) “A motley collection of social misfits''.  

My personal group of Misfits has bonded over all things backpacking over the years and, as we get older, are still endeavoring to live life enjoying the outdoors. We tell bad jokes, often, are regular raconteurs on the trail, discussing our successes and setbacks. We even remember to take a selfie or two for our folks back at home. 

When dubbing our group the Misfits, little did I know that there is also a common thing called a Misfit Thanksgiving. Started by Nashville musicians who could not travel home for the holidays, Misfits got together with friends in the area, or frankly anyone else who did not have a place to go for the holidays. If you ask me, this concept perfectly lives up to the spirit of Thanksgiving: Spending time appreciating our bounty, breaking bread and being with your community - whoever that community may be. 

A Misfit Thanksgiving is inspired by the fact that family can be found anywhere and often has little to do with blood.

My Misfits have regular meetings, training schedules, group by-law and even t-shirts. But at the core, we’re really just a group of men from all walks of life finding common purpose out on the trail - and prioritizing our mental and physical health while we’re out there. Our group mantra has informally become a quote by John Muir, included below. We say it often and we mean it. 

“Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wildness is a necessity.”  - John Muir

I’m so excited for you to learn more about the Misfits during this episode of Outside Insights - I think everyone can take value away from our discussion. Maybe you’ll even see a little of yourself in one of their stories. During the podcast, I’ll guide the discussion as you hear from Mark, the founder of the Misfits, Jack the retired photographer and resident botanist who can outhike all of us, Chris (the other Chris), our master chef and resident gearhead, and Ray, the guy who never sits down and guarantees us a campfire most of the time. 

Some fast facts about the Misfits:

1. We have 30 plus trips accomplished since 2007 including the White Mountains, John Muir Trail, Mount Rainier, and every backpacking loop you can think of from Georgia to New Hampshire,
2. We are section hiking the Appalachian Trail although we need to pick up our pace.
3. We all have a love for gear and it keeps getting lighter. My pack went from 50 pounds to 32 over 30 years!
4. We met over service, three of us were Rotarians and love the outdoors.
5. Bourbon is the Misfit Celebration beverage of choice!

And, I’ll leave you with a couple other quotes from John Muir. It’s nearly impossible to choose just one. 

Hap

Transcript

Episode #39 - The Misfits - Outside Insights Podcast

Chris Burkhard (00:31.85)

Welcome to another episode of the Outside Insights podcast where we engage with individuals who are making a difference. I'm your host, Chris Burkhardt, and today I'm thrilled to have really good friends and hiking buddies on the show. We call ourselves the Misfits. We've been hiking for a lot of years together.

Mark Muddiman (00:34.501)

Yep, 99%.

Chris Burkhard (01:00.066)

We've got t-shirts, we've got some goofy bylaws, and we all have roles that we play just like any team. We're five misfits, Mark Mudderman, Jack Nystrom, Chris Whitfield, Ray Knapp, and myself, Chris Burkhardt. Welcome, boys. I feel like we've been rehearsing for this show for decades, and we certainly have spent a lot of time waxing philosophical on the trail. Thanks for being a part of Outside Insights, guys.

Ray Nabb (01:26.414)

Thank you for having us.

Mark Muddiman (01:26.46)

Welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

Jack Nystrom (01:27.949)

You got it.

Chris Burkhard (01:29.366)

That's fun. And they're not normally this quiet and they're not gonna be this quiet for long, I guarantee that. So, but before we get into introductions and some questions, I wanted to share kind of why I wanted to do the show with you guys. I mean, the first thing is I often write about our escapades and you know, I don't know about you, I learn a lot of lessons, physical lessons, mental lessons, we're not getting any younger, we're always trying to figure stuff out. So,

a subscriber actually suggested it would be cool to hear our stories from the group. I actually have a subscriber, at least one, right? At least one that wants to know what we're doing. And I've been focused a lot this year on self-care, on getting healthy. And I began to realize how the Misfits checks a lot of the boxes on how to be happy in life. And I don't know if you guys will agree, but we could talk about it. They always say in all those articles, you need to have a hobby. Well, certainly backpacking.

is a hobby. We spend a lot of time trip planning, discussing gear, maybe drinking beer, going to dinner. And it's also important for guys to have friends. I don't know a lot of 50, 60, 70 year olds that hang around and act like 12 year olds like we do. So it's got to be good for us. It's also great to be outside. There's, you know, everything talks about going to take your shoes and socks off and stand in the grass and get outside. We spend too much time indoors.

So I don't know about you, but it's great for energy. It's great to de-stress. And then we get exercise, right? For me, that's a big deal. It checks all the boxes. So in spirit of things, this is a great thing to be talking about because all my listeners are trying to have the life they want. And man, they all want stuff that they love. And I love this stuff and you guys too. But I figured we'd start with, you know, a simple question. What's your trail name?

What role do you play in the group? And maybe a little bit about yourself. I'm sure we got some thoughts on simple bios. Mr. Moniman, you want to get us started?

Mark Muddiman (03:33.644)

Oh, sure, absolutely. My trail name is Bloodhound. For some reason, I always seem to find my way. No matter how much you guys try to ditch me, I always find my way back. But that's OK. That is a true statement. Personally, I am a CPA by my work. I'm also a husband.

Chris Whitfield (03:34.175)

Hmm

Chris Whitfield (03:46.008)

Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (03:47.707)

Unless you're walking with me and then I distract you I know

Mark Muddiman (04:03.624)

father and now a grandfather. I've had a desk job my whole life. And later in life, I just have had the need to get out and do something different. And not to get too far ahead, but the conversation with Chris led to where we are today. But I just enjoy getting out with the guys. And like Chris just said, I love being outdoors.

Ray Nabb (04:11.019)

Thank you.

Mark Muddiman (04:31.18)

I find it very energizing and it gives me the right balance that I've been looking for a long time. So that's some of about me.

Chris Burkhard (04:40.322)

That's world-class, Mark. Witte, you want to go next? Chris Whitfield?

Chris Whitfield (04:44.763)

All right, well, you just gave my trail name is witty, but the

Chris Burkhard (04:49.898)

Yeah, and your response is classic witty, so go ahead!

Chris Whitfield (04:54.735)

Thanks for that, Chris. But initially, I was given the name Sparky. And that's because on our trips, before I started coming, you guys didn't light fires. And you guys were tired to your tents. And I came along and I started lighting fires. And ever since then, it's become a staple of our trips. I'm also an avid outdoorsman.

And a gear head is what I would label myself. And I don't mean gear head in the aspect of cars. I like buying gear for the trips. I have a new piece of gear probably on every trip that we go on. As far as my role in the group is, I've said this about myself many times that I tend to overthink things.

I like the planning aspect of the trips. I like to assist others in planning the trips. And that's pretty much me.

Chris Burkhard (05:58.838)

So the over planning thing, we even got him a t-shirt that signified that he might over plan. So there might be something to that.

Chris Whitfield (06:07.398)

I didn't wear that t-shirt I almost did

Chris Burkhard (06:11.023)

But you're wearing a really good t-shirt today. Is that Brad Pitt on your shirt or is that some other actor?

Chris Whitfield (06:13.767)

He told me to give you viewers a...

Chris Burkhard (06:19.478)

Yeah, we'll leave that one alone. Jack Nystrom, come on down.

Jack Nystrom (06:26.888)

Okay, I'm Jack. My trail name is Whiskey Jack. And I got it because initially I would bring a little shot of whiskey or maybe two to drink after dinner. Easy to carry that alcohol with us. And sure enough, everybody else started bringing whiskey too. So I'm really not the only one drinking whiskey now, but initially I was Whiskey Jack. I am a... Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (06:52.154)

Because hey Jack, Drambuwi Jack just doesn't roll off the tongue, does it?

Jack Nystrom (06:56.556)

That is true. I actually enjoyed rambouille more than whiskey, but you're right. It doesn't roll off the tongue. So I am a retired chemist, a process chemist, or a guy who worked in production plants, um, and I also enjoy the outdoors. Um, I probably my biggest hobby is cycling. I'm a very avid road cyclist, but I also enjoy skiing and sailing. Uh, and I enjoy gardening. So I'm probably.

Chris Whitfield (06:57.451)

I'm going to go to bed.

Mark Muddiman (06:57.89)

Ha ha.

Chris Whitfield (07:00.127)

Happy.

Jack Nystrom (07:24.812)

behind the group a lot of times on the trail because I'm taking pictures of plants, I'm doing a little more observation. I'm just out to see everything I can when we go on a trip. And for that reason, I think I enjoy the spring trips more than the fall because there's more growing in the woods when we go on the spring trips.

Chris Burkhard (07:45.538)

Jack, in the beginning, I used to just want to walk and walk fast, but I've learned to appreciate to see what you see. So we all learn from each other.

Jack Nystrom (07:55.853)

Yeah.

Mark Muddiman (07:56.153)

Mm-hmm.

Jack Nystrom (07:58.752)

I'm probably the one who goes to bed the latest or goes in the tent the latest and gets up the latest. I really enjoy sitting around a campfire if we can make a campfire and just hanging out and talking with whoever's still up. I mean, by nature, I'm a night person. So I pay the price in the morning when everybody else is going, hey, Jack, come on, let's go. We're ready to leave. It's not that bad though. Yeah.

Chris Whitfield (08:04.852)

CLEARS THROAT

Chris Whitfield (08:25.287)

I think we pay the price.

Mark Muddiman (08:28.379)

That's it.

Ray Nabb (08:29.121)

Okay.

Chris Burkhard (08:29.31)

Yeah, I think it's a mutual benefit there, Jack. You know, Jack is also the one most likely to be catching up on his movies from 1991, maybe 1992, but he certainly entertains us. And our junior member of the Misfits, Ray Nab.

Ray Nabb (08:49.722)

Hello! Thanks for having me, Chris. Yeah, so as Chris mentioned, I came along a little bit later in, I guess, 17, I think, was my first trip. But I developed the trail name of Steel recently. And I think I can, I guess I rely on other people to name.

name me that, but the explanation they gave me is they think I'm a man of steel. I don't know, maybe because I'm aggressive with how I break logs and things to prepare for the fire. I have always been very outdoorsy and growing up as a kid, spent a lot of my time in the

Chris Burkhard (09:25.664)

Amen.

Ray Nabb (09:48.582)

catching frogs and snakes. And so it's kind of under my fingernails as I grew up. And so it kind of fed into finding this group or this group finding me. And after a couple attempts of Chris asking me, please join us, and you'll see why, I did. And I see why. The first trip, we were in.

lead the Smokies for five days, three years, threw me right into the fire. And it was great. I loved it. But I think one of my roles around the campfire is to keep the fire lit. I tend to use some of my learning tactics from sports days to motivate. So a lot of times,

Chris Burkhard (10:20.962)

Great Smoky Mountains, yes.

Mark Muddiman (10:22.632)

That's right.

Ray Nabb (10:46.99)

I'll be in the back trying to bring someone along. I haven't yet put your arm over my head, but yeah. The things that kind of motivate me are the athletic aspect, the being able to dig deep at times when you think that it's a little too much.

Chris Burkhard (10:50.247)

You can say my name, it's fine.

Mark Muddiman (10:51.923)

Ha ha!

Chris Whitfield (10:55.623)

We've all done it.

Chris Whitfield (11:01.833)

Hmm.

Ray Nabb (11:17.339)

I thrive on those kind of feelings.

Chris Burkhard (11:20.75)

And honestly, dude, that's been a great addition. Um, we need all kinds and we have all kinds of skills and attitudes and. You know, different approaches represented. Um, so I have two trail names. One is Chickage Gook, uh, last to the Mohicans. So many eons ago, I walked out in front on this group. That was a long time ago. Uh, boy, man.

How about that? So I somewhere along the lines, we were on the long trail in Vermont. And if you've ever camped or backpacked, you come across these some nice shelters, not some not so nice shelters, this happened to be a beautiful three sided shelter that probably slept 12 had bunk beds, had an upper deck. But you end up camping with people that you never don't know, maybe they got in late. And somebody at breakfast said,

Which one of you sleeps and snores like Darth Vader? And at the time that was me and Darth Vader was as one of the trail names that kind of comes and goes and sticks. Although I don't snore anymore. So maybe I'll get a new one. Right. Uh, we've been hiking long enough to do it. If you can't tell from this podcast, this is probably my role court jester, comic relief, smart aleck comment, equip, um,

Mark Muddiman (12:24.066)

Ha ha.

Chris Burkhard (12:45.746)

Sports statistics, I'm pretty good at remembering batting averages of Mike Schmidt from 1987 and shit like that. And you know, I'm most likely to go to bed early, I'm most likely not to cook my food before I eat it. And a whole host of other things like that. But I'm sure that spurred up comments. Go ahead.

Mark Muddiman (13:09.131)

Well, I was just gonna... Yeah.

Chris Whitfield (13:09.663)

So when did you stop snoring?

Chris Burkhard (13:13.744)

Uh... HAHAHAHA! There you go. In my own mind.

Chris Whitfield (13:15.849)

I'm just curious. Is that a recent thing, like within the last few weeks?

Mark Muddiman (13:17.873)

I must have missed that one.

Chris Burkhard (13:19.453)

I have not.

We've been on for 13 minutes. I have not snored once.

Ray Nabb (13:25.679)

Thank you.

Chris Whitfield (13:25.806)

There you go.

Mark Muddiman (13:26.441)

Ha ha!

Chris Burkhard (13:29.727)

Monoman, you're up.

Mark Muddiman (13:31.676)

No, one of your questions was, you know, how did we form the group initially? And if I could just give some history, if you'd like on how that all started. It goes back to, um, Marie and I, uh, we're hiking in Shenandoah, uh, way back. And I got the bug up my butt that I wanted to hike the Appalachian trail. Um, so like most people who do that, the first thing you're supposed to do is go out and buy the Bill Bryson book of a walk in the woods.

Chris Burkhard (13:36.502)

Yeah. Yes.

Mark Muddiman (14:01.128)

to have a good laugh, which I did. But then several weeks later, Chris and I were at our rotary luncheon, our weekly rotary luncheon, and the topic came up about hiking. And Chris shared with me that he had done a ton of it as a kid and as a young man, and I had done none of it. And that was, I was 47 at that time. And 2007.

Chris Burkhard (14:27.314)

What year was that? Was that 07? Okay.

Mark Muddiman (14:31.876)

Yeah. And so that led up to our first hike back at Shenandoah as it went. In April 2007 was our first hike. And that was my first experience in backpacking was that time. But I also want to share that my role with the group is one of whatever anybody needs as a resource, but I'm also the official scribe of our history.

So for every trip that we take now, I request that we have some notes and the more details the better because you do forget. When you're in the woods, everything kind of looks the same, but the stories are getting better and better. But here's what I wrote on our first trip. It's just a few sentences. We started at Skyland and headed to Big Meadow for our first night camping. Shared a two-man tent with Chris, snoring like a bear with a cold.

Mark swears to purchase his own tent no matter the cost. So that was, that's right. So that was my first hiking experience and that's how we got started. That fall, Jack is a neighbor of mine up the block and we invited him for our second trip to I think it was Dolly Sod's.

Chris Burkhard (15:34.5)

And actually he's bought one every year for 15 years to prove his point.

Chris Whitfield (15:41.043)

CLEAR

Jack Nystrom (15:55.823)

SOTS

Mark Muddiman (15:57.184)

And over some beers and whatnot, we came up with the name, The Misfit Hikers. And that's how everything stuck since then. Chris Whitfield joined us in 2012. And then Ray joined us in 2017. So this is our little group and it's been wonderful.

Chris Burkhard (16:10.083)

Alright.

Chris Burkhard (16:17.858)

How many hikes? Any idea? You might have had us.

Mark Muddiman (16:20.988)

I know exactly how many hikes come. 33, you know, what I call the official long hikes of, you know, two and a half or long weekends and or anything beyond that. We do have a bunch of other one-nighters that I don't count, but we've had 33 hikes. We've covered 926 miles for an average of 28 miles per hike, which is pretty good for roughly two and a half days.

is what our typical hike is.

Chris Burkhard (16:49.634)

I bet you I complained for 900 of the 928 miles just to...

Mark Muddiman (16:53.468)

That is... duly noted.

Chris Burkhard (16:57.177)

duly noted.

Mark Muddiman (17:00.219)

So that's our brief history lesson right there.

Chris Burkhard (17:03.074)

So do you think the Misfits, I mean, there's a famous Misfit group of Yvonne Chouinard, the founder of North Face, the founder of Royal Robins. Did we find the name before we knew that or was that our inspiration? Does anybody know that answer?

Mark Muddiman (17:20.468)

Say that again.

Chris Whitfield (17:21.724)

I don't know that answer, sure.

Chris Burkhard (17:22.082)

So, Yvonne Chouinard of Patagonia and his buddies called themselves the misfits in the fifties and sixties when they climbed. And I wasn't sure if that was our motivation or if it was just weird coincidence.

Mark Muddiman (17:32.18)

Wow.

Mark Muddiman (17:36.848)

I think it's a weird coincidence. Because I didn't know that story you just said about Shinar. I never heard that. Yeah.

Jack Nystrom (17:38.048)

Yeah, weird coincidence.

Chris Burkhard (17:41.218)

How about that? Yeah, I just if you one of his books is let your people surf and he talks about this great book Um, and I just that just proves it that I can see your faces in reaction that I assume one of us knew that um

Chris Whitfield (17:42.249)

Thank you.

Chris Whitfield (17:59.107)

I thought you guys got the name from the Rudolph movie, The Land of Misfit Toys.

Chris Burkhard (18:04.549)

Oh.

Mark Muddiman (18:06.445)

are toys.

Chris Burkhard (18:07.47)

The land of misfit wilderness areas. Yeah, I'm familiar with that one. That's our own version of that. So, I don't know, guys, feel free to jump in if you have something to share, but I'll, I'll lobby. Go ahead.

Jack Nystrom (18:18.884)

Well, I have to say, Dali Sads was baptism by fire for me. I borrowed a neighbor's tent, which was like 18 inches high. It was, I could, could not even sit up in the thing. I had an old sleeping bag, which was probably rated at about 50 degrees. And it was probably the coldest night I've ever camped out. It was, what is it? Like 10 degrees the first night we camped out in the parking lot.

Chris Whitfield (18:24.198)

Hmm

Mark Muddiman (18:44.7)

Yeah, yes, very cold.

Jack Nystrom (18:46.792)

and I put every stitch of clothing on just to stay warm. And I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna enjoy this, but.

Chris Burkhard (18:54.03)

My guess is that sleeping bag might have weighed eight pounds? No, only seven pounds, but.

Jack Nystrom (18:59.14)

Yeah, no, only seven pounds. Yeah, it was an old fiber fill, yeah.

Chris Burkhard (19:06.178)

A gearhead Whitfield, what's a sleeping bag weight today versus seven pounds?

Chris Whitfield (19:12.959)

The 20 degree that I use is a quilt that weighs 22.8 ounces or something like that. So that's what a pound, pound four ounces, pound and a half, less than a pound and a half.

Chris Burkhard (19:20.874)

Yeah.

Jack Nystrom (19:21.732)

Plus the two pounds, yeah.

Chris Burkhard (19:26.178)

I'd love to hear you guys' perspective on just kind of how the sport has changed in the 15 to 20 years that we've been doing it, in particular gear. Who wants to riff on that?

Mark Muddiman (19:26.65)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whitfield (19:28.651)

Thank you.

Ray Nabb (19:39.254)

I think the gear master should.

Mark Muddiman (19:39.357)

Oh yeah.

Mark Muddiman (19:43.188)

Hahaha.

Ray Nabb (19:44.643)

Whitty.

Chris Whitfield (19:45.299)

With me? Yeah, that's for sure.

Jack Nystrom (19:45.684)

Certainly water filters and stoves have come a long way.

Chris Burkhard (19:49.458)

Oh, you're absolutely right. The stove that we used on the first trip was, um, gasoline. It was a one piece, one burner stove and a tank. It was a Coleman. I think it did weigh, it was the best in breed. And I think it did weigh five pounds or four and a half pounds, you know, with fuel in it. Um, so it's come, come a long way, but Chris, I'm, I'm treading into your territory and I'm going to be corrected soon, so take over.

Chris Whitfield (20:17.435)

No, I think a lot of the gear has changed because people, a lot of gear is made by large manufacturers and large manufacturers, you know, they're in the big outlet stores. You go to REI, they outfit you with whatever they believe or whatever has the best reviews and they're not really so concerned about weight. And I think that everybody that starts in backpacking ends up at REI or some other type of large store.

And they buy what someone who doesn't do a lot of backpacking tells them to buy. And you end up repurchasing it. And I think that the gear is going more towards, um, garage, you know, I, you know, I refer to like garage grown gear or other places where it's small. Boutique manufacturers that do this, you know, they, they basically found a way to make a living doing what they love. So the gear has gone from, you know, aluminum to titanium, uh,

You know, you've gone from regular backpacks to quilts. Tents have gotten much, much lighter to where they're incorporating the, your walking sticks instead of having tent poles. So a lot of changes are happening with gear that are driven by carrying weight and heading towards that minimalist mentality.

Mark Muddiman (21:39.193)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Burkhard (21:39.33)

I think that's always an interesting balance, Chris, because I think we, what would you guys say our packs? Where did we start Mark and Jack, Chris? Where were we in the early days? What was our pack weights? We probably didn't even weigh them, but if you had to guess, what do you think they were? 50 pounds?

Chris Whitfield (21:49.457)

Okay.

Mark Muddiman (21:56.232)

Low 30 pounds. Nah, it wasn't that much, but it was, I would say definitely 35 pound range. Yeah. Yep.

Jack Nystrom (22:02.648)

35 to 40, maybe 40 at the very start.

Chris Whitfield (22:06.119)

I know my first trip I was over 40. I had to be because I had changed the clothes. I had all kinds of stuff that I didn't need. So I know it's carrying probably 45 pounds. What's that?

Chris Burkhard (22:06.617)

Obviously.

Mark Muddiman (22:14.548)

Well that was part of your initiation too.

Jack Nystrom (22:16.834)

Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (22:17.31)

Yeah, you never did find the rocks that we put in the bottom of your bag. Yeah. Well, we did sign them for you. We painted little smiley faces on them and stuff. So we thought you would appreciate that. Um, so I had a big old massive expedition pack, so I'm sure mine was over 40. Uh, but Chris, and what you're saying, every piece of gear has been improved or.

Mark Muddiman (22:21.203)

He did find them. Yeah.

Chris Whitfield (22:21.424)

Yeah, I found him when we got home.

Chris Burkhard (22:44.898)

had a reduction in weight or it's been multi-purposed, right? Where you do two or three things with it. What are our packs weighing today? And, you know, where do you guys, before you, you know, they always talk, I think it's before you put food in, but what's your kit weighing, if I think that's right.

Chris Whitfield (23:04.679)

My base weight is probably in the 15 pound range, but that's just the tent, the sleeping bag, the backpack and your basic gear. And then somewhere in the 26 to 30 pound, I think if you were going out for a week, you're probably gonna be closer to 35 with food, but that's a week's worth of food. So somewhere hovering around.

Mark Muddiman (23:30.164)

Yeah, typically I come in at 28 pounds lately.

Chris Burkhard (23:30.313)

Even I'm

Chris Whitfield (23:33.331)

Yeah.

Ray Nabb (23:35.214)

Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (23:36.126)

Even as the biggest guy, I'm in the 33 to 38 pound range with food and water, so, you know, it all makes.

Mark Muddiman (23:43.466)

But you always carry a refrigerator section which is really, you know, kind of heavy.

Chris Burkhard (23:48.326)

Yeah, that's good resale in the wilderness though. At times it comes in handy, it's trade for other things. Is this a hobby for us, a friend group, an exercise club, all the above, what do you think?

Ray Nabb (24:07.83)

Hey, before we go into that, Chris, let me add something in the gear department. The latest purchase I made is probably, I think part of this, we're asking, what piece of gear do we like the most or we're most glad that we have? I bought a chair that weighs a pound and I was able to do that because everything else is so light. So I thought, hey, you know, why not?

Mark Muddiman (24:08.036)

I would say.

Chris Burkhard (24:24.749)

Yes.

Ray Nabb (24:37.47)

And what a difference that's made in my hiking life. When you get back, you know, when you get into camp after a 13-miler rocks and lots of incline decline, it feels so good to let your back release. And you can't do that sitting on a log or resting on a log. And it's the last two hikes, I found it very valuable.

Mark Muddiman (24:55.333)

us.

Chris Burkhard (24:58.164)

Or against the tree.

Chris Burkhard (25:05.334)

Did everybody end up with a chair? Cause there was a certain amount of chair envy. I think, I'm pretty sure Muddeman got the first one. And every time he got up, we stole his chair. This is true. Even I bought a big boy, fat boy chair to be able to use. And, you know, I think, thank you Ray. Cause that kind of brings me back to where I thought I wanted to go. And it's, we, in the beginning, we brought everything.

Mark Muddiman (25:16.622)

This is true.

Chris Whitfield (25:18.891)

CLEARS THROAT

Chris Burkhard (25:33.066)

And then we went really minimalist. And now I hear us kind of talk, well, there's certain things I want to bring. Like there's like a balance between, I want a chair or, you know, I'm going to bring something that, that is important to me and my kit. Have you guys gone through that same evolution? Cause I certainly find myself there. Uh, Jack, if you recall the first time you backpacked with me, I didn't even bring a tent. Uh, I, I.

Jack Nystrom (25:59.469)

Right.

Chris Burkhard (26:00.79)

When I was young, I thought just wrapping myself in what's called a bivy was the coolest thing ever. And it is until it's 10 degrees or you wake up covered in daddy long legs. And then it's not so fun, you know, but, um, so.

Mark Muddiman (26:14.74)

Well that was an interesting night though because that was also the night it was pitch black it was very cold and that's the night that the coyotes came into our campsite. Yippin' yeah and uh you were just like a taco waiting to be eaten on the ground.

Chris Burkhard (26:24.758)

Oh my gosh, I forgot.

Chris Burkhard (26:31.315)

I they were fighting they were either mating or fighting right in right between us

Mark Muddiman (26:36.668)

Yes, they were. They were right in camp. And that was a little terrifying for a few moments, but yeah, that's when that minimalist just doesn't sound good to me.

Ray Nabb (26:36.723)

Thank you.

Chris Burkhard (26:46.558)

Yeah, because those nylon walls really keep Coyote out, you know. But it's, it's an impression. Other thoughts on the topic on this kind of.

Mark Muddiman (26:49.934)

Yeah, yeah they do.

Mark Muddiman (26:59.228)

I think you're right in what you just said in that the pendulum is swinging back a little bit to creature comforts that we really do like. As Ray said, they really do serve a purpose. I agree 100%. There's nothing like giving your back a break from walking all day with 30 pounds or so on your back. Your choices when you get to camp are I lay down in my tent or I sit on a log and the

Mark Muddiman (27:28.296)

those two. So I agree with what you said.

Ray Nabb (27:30.538)

Yeah, I do think people retire for, not just because they want to close their eyes, they want to rest their bones. So we end up getting in those tents a little early at times. I think I extended my campfire existence a little longer by having a chair.

Mark Muddiman (27:40.424)

Yes.

Chris Burkhard (27:50.942)

Yeah, I think Ray, you're right. The chair means you don't have to lay down and you'd take a load off. Let's talk a little bit about our trips.

Mark Muddiman (27:51.42)

more whiskey.

Mark Muddiman (27:55.892)

That's right.

Chris Whitfield (27:59.452)

luck and a few.

Chris Burkhard (28:03.822)

Do you have a favorite moment? Favorite place we've been? Details that you remember.

Ray Nabb (28:12.31)

Hey Chris, when I thought about this question, a couple things came to mind. Every trip I've been on, there were some parts of it that I loved and some parts of it that I didn't like so much. So I could take parts of one trip and put it with another part of another trip and have the most fantastic trip ever. But I don't think any of them were just that solid perfect trip.

You have the night before you go out into the woods that we're doing some great things. We're excited. We spend time catching up because we don't see each other very often other than these trips. Then you head out into the woods and the first day it's the greatest thing ever. Fresh air, rocks, plants, trees.

and then camp that first night every day. The excitement is so high those first days. And then there's...

Chris Burkhard (29:12.782)

I can't wait to tell you guys the same jokes that I told you in the spring and the fall. I can't wait.

Mark Muddiman (29:17.052)

Hahahaha

Chris Whitfield (29:18.623)

We can't wait to hear them.

Ray Nabb (29:18.66)

I have run eights. Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (29:21.202)

I know. Jack, I think you like the dinner the night before more than the hiking. Is that true?

Jack Nystrom (29:29.48)

No, that's not true. Did I say that?

Chris Burkhard (29:30.407)

Alright.

Ray Nabb (29:31.374)

Yes.

Chris Burkhard (29:33.006)

I think I might have wrote it, I don't know, or maybe I made it up, but... Um... Go ahead, Ray, I'm gonna talk over you, just jump in.

Ray Nabb (29:37.632)

Yeah.

Oh, that's, you know, I think everybody would agree that, you know, those little... You chop it up in pieces and there's some really great things. And then there's some days that not so much when, you know, it's a downpour and your gear's leaking and your, you know, your feet are wet and you're slipping on rocks. That's... I don't think anybody loves that. Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (30:01.026)

So backpacking itself is, but backpacking is like a wonderful slow burn, right? Like the pack gets, it starts off okay in the morning and by four o'clock it feels like you're carrying a tractor trailer on your back, right? Or the hill that you start off in the morning that, wow, you guys scamper up it as I cuss at you at the base, but I eventually make it up. You,

Chris Whitfield (30:03.641)

I don't know about that.

Ray Nabb (30:06.592)

Yeah.

Ray Nabb (30:10.796)

Yeah

Chris Burkhard (30:30.442)

You feel pretty good. And then after a while it just gets heavier and harder and all those things. Um, but I love that it's a slow burn that I could still do. I, we couldn't go play pickup football. I would pull a hamstring again. Uh, you know, one of us plays baseball. That's a different podcast, but you know, we're not doing that fast Twitch stuff. This is something that we can all do. Um, and that's, I love that athletic part of it. Um,

And you're right, Ray, but I even some, I'm a little surprised at you because you're the one with steel in your nickname and some, you never look like it's hard, ever. You never look like it's hard. I look like it's hard putting my shoes on. Like, you know, it's just, you got it really down. And I think that's a good thing about having you around and you know, you make up for all that.

but I actually like the adversity and I like the shit that goes wrong and I like when we're free then

Chris Whitfield (31:34.109)

I was getting ready to say the same thing. I like it too. I don't like waking up and putting damp clothes on in the morning and you're trying to eat and it's just uncomfortable. But then when you're walking in the rain the next day, that the rest of the day, it's almost like, can I make it through this? Can I get to the end and how hard is it going to be? I can do this. And you kind of feed off.

Mark Muddiman (31:58.884)

Yeah, I find that just having the backpack on your back and everything in it, and if you need something and you don't have it in your backpack, it's too bad. I find that very, I don't know, cleansing, if that's a word for it, because it's minimal. If you don't have it with you, you don't have it at all. And given that we have everything at our fingertips in our lives.

Ray Nabb (32:01.295)

from Anko.

Mark Muddiman (32:28.088)

especially electronically, I think it's just so nice to just disconnect from all that and just get out into the woods. That's what I love about it the most. And as I go, what you're saying, Chris, I agree, gives you a chance to just worry about one thing, putting one foot in front of the other, and you get into kind of almost like a moving meditation almost of...

Chris Burkhard (32:54.702)

That's exactly right.

Mark Muddiman (32:56.4)

your mind just, you know, frees your mind to wander and you can think about something or nothing or whatever, but you just gotta keep moving forward. And that's, I really enjoy that out of the whole thing.

Chris Burkhard (33:10.158)

I think it's one of the rare times when I'm not thinking about something. I'm thinking about the pain in my foot or I'm thinking about the walk, but I'm not focused on work or I'm not focused on a problem or an issue in my life. You're right, it's like meditation or sleeping. And that is a great benefit. Who else has more to share on this?

Chris Whitfield (33:38.704)

Want a favorite trip moment?

Jack Nystrom (33:39.14)

Well, I was just going to say how before the trip, before the trip, we go through all this work to list everything we need, make sure we got it all, pack the pack as light as possible. And then that's, you know, it gets your mind going. And that's a good thing. It forces you to concentrate. And then you get in the car. And as soon as you get in the car, like Mark was saying, the journey has started.

Mark Muddiman (33:43.06)

Go Jack.

Jack Nystrom (34:09.088)

You got what you got, and then you don't worry about it. And your mind is just, you can forget all the other stuff. And the fun really starts.

Chris Burkhard (34:17.934)

And I like all the roles we play once we get in the car than me. Chris, go ahead.

Chris Whitfield (34:24.423)

Now you were saying about, were we on a question of best moments? Are you looking for best moments? What are we looking for here?

Chris Burkhard (34:31.938)

Go ahead.

Chris Whitfield (34:34.383)

I actually had my best moment and I know you had a similar moment on the John Muir trail as I had. And we were coming out on the last day and we had

Chris Burkhard (34:44.61)

Hey Chris, tell everybody where John Muir Trail is in a little bit, just so people get a sense of it.

Chris Whitfield (34:51.187)

Um, John Muir Trail is basically in California. Um, I built, does it go into Nevada at all at the, at the parts that we were on? Into the Inyo Canyon. What's that Jack would know better.

Chris Burkhard (35:02.338)

Maybe a little bit. Maybe not where we were. National Forest may go that far.

Jack Nystrom (35:02.721)

I don't think so.

Chris Whitfield (35:09.395)

Jack, do you have the details on that?

Jack Nystrom (35:12.48)

I believe the John Muir Trail is a 200 mile section of the Pacific Crest Trail. And we hiked a subsection about, I think, 40 miles of the John Muir Trail. Plus the in and out.

Chris Burkhard (35:16.852)

Awesome.

Chris Whitfield (35:24.571)

Yeah, and I know we went through, we went through three different park sections or like the Inyo Canyon, the Kings Canyon and somewhere else. So, and I don't know if there was traversing outside of California. But at any rate,

Chris Burkhard (35:40.974)

Well, I know we were pretty close to Yosemite right there, right?

Chris Whitfield (35:45.387)

correct. And I had the moment, similar to what you had, I think you had it with your son Joshua was on the trail, sitting around the lake that night. But when we were walking out, I look back at this and I almost tear up every time I think about it. And it's we came over the we were coming out of camp going up the last mountain as we got to the top of the last summit to go down and back to our cars. The sun was coming up.

There was a lake, there was another mountain lake, glacial lake off in the distance, and it just hit me. And that's probably the one moment ever hiking that I lean on the most.

Chris Burkhard (36:27.926)

I think sometimes you can get there in a day, but there is something to the longer trips in how...

Chris Whitfield (36:34.951)

Yeah, it just, it was, it was, I was cleansed, it felt. That's as well, that's, I guess that's the way I can describe.

Chris Burkhard (36:38.978)

Yep.

I think that's an excellent one. Anybody else have a favorite trip moment?

Mark Muddiman (36:47.524)

Yeah, one of my favorite trips, because I, as you know, I didn't make the John Muir trip, but I like the White Mountains in New Hampshire. I think Jack, you had planned that one. And the White... That's right. And that's, that was a, what they call a hut to hut hike, which is something a little different, but it's nice to not have to set up a tent at the end of the day and break it down in the morning and also have food as well.

Chris Burkhard (36:58.114)

King's Canyon

Ray Nabb (36:58.31)

Thanks for watching!

Mark Muddiman (37:16.224)

But that was just some spectacular views and I really just enjoyed that whole trip in New Hampshire.

Ray Nabb (37:19.234)

So much.

Chris Burkhard (37:23.266)

And I think we had a Thanksgiving dinner cooked by volunteers the last night.

Mark Muddiman (37:26.932)

That's right. The last night. We ate like kings. We really did.

Jack Nystrom (37:31.092)

even though it was in September, right?

Mark Muddiman (37:33.155)

Yes

Chris Burkhard (37:33.303)

And contrary to what everybody thinks, a thru-hiker does not smell when they're sleeping next to you.

Maybe that's not true. Maybe that's not true at all. They don't think they smell, but that's for sure.

Mark Muddiman (37:43.024)

Maybe that's not true.

Mark Muddiman (37:47.188)

Oh

Chris Whitfield (37:50.108)

It's because everybody smells.

Chris Burkhard (37:52.89)

Yeah, that's true. So anybody else with favorite, you know, kind of favorite spots or anything like that, uh, um, I'd be curious, is it the planning for you guys? Is it the, you know, the discussions we have, is it the hiking, is it all of it? What, what works for you?

Ray Nabb (38:15.082)

Well, that'll bring me into one of my favorite hikes and all the things that surrounded it. We had to train extensively for Rainier. We kind of trained for every hike. I do personally, but Rainier was a different level, a different gear set. We had to kind of go by.

recommendations. Yeah, buying the things and hiking the Reservoir Hill in Newark and, you know, just making sure our bodies were right. The hike was phenomenal. It wasn't as... It was the kind of pain that I like. It was something we had to just dig through.

Chris Burkhard (38:44.938)

It was so fun buying all that shit.

Ray Nabb (39:12.278)

So it wasn't enjoyable to see different things all the time, but at the end it was nice. You had some really intense training. I like that. And then after the trip, we stayed out in the Pacific Northwest and enjoyed that area for a week following. A couple of wives met us out there and we were able to take advantage of that trip.

Chris Burkhard (39:34.188)

Fantastic.

Chris Burkhard (39:38.05)

Well, we each don't have a couple of wives. Our separate wives joined us, just to be clear. Our Utah contingent will be disappointed, but hey, we'll see what happens.

Ray Nabb (39:42.31)

Thanks.

Mark Muddiman (39:42.581)

Hahaha

Ray Nabb (39:50.872)

Right, so yeah that's it.

Chris Burkhard (39:51.446)

So, so Renear trying to get to 14,000 and some change, you started 4,000 and some change, you immediately hit snow, you get to a glacier and we got to how far guys, was it 11, five?

Ray Nabb (40:06.922)

Yeah. Disprimit cleat.

Chris Whitfield (40:07.079)

11.5.

Jack Nystrom (40:08.044)

Yeah, right.

Chris Burkhard (40:10.311)

Who wants to tell that story?

Ray Nabb (40:15.478)

I like witty jokes.

Jack Nystrom (40:15.556)

So we got up to Camp Muir the first night, 10,000 feet, got up the next morning, went through all the training that we had to do using the ice axes and the ropes, headed up in the afternoon and got to 11.5 and set up, well, the tents were all set up for us, but got set up for camp, learned how you deal with an environment that's just all snow, because that's what it was.

And then they told us they'd wake us up at midnight and we'd head up to the peak. But when we got up at midnight, was it, was it sleet? Was it wind? Was it fog? Which one of those was it that they, that they decided was too much? Yeah.

Ray Nabb (40:57.59)

Yes, yes, yes.

Chris Whitfield (40:59.205)

Yes, yes, and yes.

Chris Burkhard (41:01.237)

all of the above.

Chris Whitfield (41:03.827)

Blizzard conditions they call it.

Ray Nabb (41:04.793)

wind

Jack Nystrom (41:07.704)

Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (41:08.606)

And that was frustrating. Uh, you spend nine months. Good bit of money. You train. Uh, but in the end, I, hey, I always wanted to mountaineer and you guys kind of made that happen for me, so I really appreciate it. Uh, and hopefully it was a good, good slice of life, different than some of our other trips, but need to do some mountaineering and to try all that and learn all that.

And we'll probably post a picture of us from that as one of the couple that we'll put up. So moving on. How have things changed for us? The themes of kind of how things have changed since we started for the Misfits.

Jack Nystrom (41:56.096)

I would say efficiency. You know, we make the most of each trip and we do it with a lot less effort than we had to. You know, the planning just kind of flows. We usually get together for a dinner beforehand and that's really a lot of fun. But we don't spend as much time talking about the trip at that dinner.

Chris Burkhard (42:14.294)

Yeah, you're right.

I think, I mean, I don't know about you, but I think it's funny, funny. I'm not sure if that's the right word, but as we've aged, how our approach to all of this is shifting and evolving. Um, I think we went through a kick, kick your butt phase, right? Like the harder, the better. Um, maybe we weren't conscious of the miles or the elevation. And I think Jack still likes to do that to us. Um,

Chris Whitfield (42:32.348)

Agreed.

Chris Burkhard (42:46.142)

I'm going to make everybody cringe and maybe need counseling. Should I say Devil's Path one more time? Is everybody... But I think age has mellowed us and maybe made a... I think it's made me a better hiker and a better misfit. I'm less of an a-hole than I was of get up and go, get up and go. But I think age has been one factor. What's that?

Mark Muddiman (42:51.28)

Right, right.

Ray Nabb (42:52.377)

I'm sorry.

Chris Whitfield (43:10.342)

You have evolved in that room. You have evolved in that. You've learned that rather than to complain, maybe I'll just start on my own and go out and let these guys catch up.

Chris Burkhard (43:20.046)

because they always catch me at this point. Yeah. In fact, I've learned if I don't, I need to not complain and to get out in front, I need to pray you don't pass me, right? And of course injuries.

Mark Muddiman (43:22.172)

Haha

Chris Whitfield (43:31.939)

I think as we age, I think it's... I'm sorry.

Chris Burkhard (43:36.062)

I just was gonna throw out the injuries. Go ahead, Chris.

Chris Whitfield (43:39.747)

I was, I was going to say, as far as the trips have changed and how we've changed. Is that I think that we, you know, we talked about shaving weight and getting lighter packs and I think that we started that for endurance purposes. And as we age, I think that those lighter packs are more meant because as we get older, we need lighter packs and I've noticed a shift, you know, we've talked about the chairs, um, you know, and noticing that

Ray Nabb (43:46.939)

I'm going to talk to the other shit.

Mark Muddiman (44:00.489)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Whitfield (44:06.387)

we've changed to add incorporate cabins in some of our trips. Yeah. So that we, you know, we go out and we, you know, go to the cabin and pack in stakes or however we get, get it into the cabin, whether we drive it in and walk it in that way. And so it's there waiting for us the next day, but we're evolving into the camping aspect of backpacking. And I think as we get older, that camping aspect is look, you know, is

We want it to be more comfortable. We want the camping aspect of it. So we're giving way and having that lighter weight is adding to the fact that we can make camping more comfortable and add chairs and things like that. So that I think that's where we're evolving to. So as we get older.

Chris Burkhard (44:51.882)

I think it's worth noting that at times you volunteer to play the role of chef and it's a darn good thing. We all benefit from it. And hey, it's fun being in a cabin cooking a steak on a Franklin stove and figuring some of that stuff out. It's just, but Chris, you're right. I think adding, you know, these are pretty rusted cabins. There's no electricity, you know, it's might have a potbelly stove

fireplace or something. You know, we're still using all our gear. We just don't need the tent. And maybe we get, you know, a little heat that night if it's necessary, but they are a ton of fun. And I see us doing more of that.

Chris Whitfield (45:36.436)

Agreed.

Mark Muddiman (45:37.3)

I agree. Yeah.

Jack Nystrom (45:41.128)

Oh, and it allows us to do more cold weather hiking too. You know, we've got these winter trips that we're doing now and the cabins really are a benefit.

Chris Burkhard (45:52.57)

So I don't know if this is something that you guys think about, but Mark and I always end up walking for miles on the trail. And it seems to me that we all go through ups and downs off the trail. You know, like I can't tell you the number of times I've been walking with Mark and business is good. It's great. Business is bad. Business is terrible. Life, whatever comes at us. And

Mark Muddiman (45:52.751)

Yeah, I thought...

Chris Burkhard (46:18.546)

not only do the woods heal, I think friendships help in that. And it's nice to have people to listen to. So what's your thoughts on how we help each other when we kind of bring that real life into the woods?

Mark Muddiman (46:33.188)

Yeah, I just think it gives everyone just an outlet to if nothing else is vent. And maybe it doesn't get resolved, but at least it just helps to share it with someone else, you know, besides, of course, your spouse or your close family. You know, the saying of, you know, what happens on the trail stays on the trail and what's set on the trail stays on the trail.

Chris Whitfield (47:02.227)

Not that anything happens.

Mark Muddiman (47:03.544)

I think it's not that anything ever happens, never does, but I think that... Ha ha ha!

Chris Burkhard (47:05.206)

Right. Yeah.

Ray Nabb (47:06.255)

Thank you.

Chris Whitfield (47:07.35)

It's not like Vegas or anything like that.

Chris Burkhard (47:12.042)

No, but I mean, where else can you hike up a difficult trail and talk tax code with a master's in tax like Mudderman? Like you just can't get that anywhere else, right? You know? Or we get chemical process engineering discussions while we're in the woods about melting plastic or something, you know? Jack brings that, right? Always a benefit. I do need to know that stuff.

Mark Muddiman (47:24.048)

Right, there's nothing like it.

Chris Whitfield (47:24.971)

Correct.

Ray Nabb (47:32.39)

Thank you.

Jack Nystrom (47:36.804)

Because you need to know that stuff.

Chris Burkhard (47:40.726)

But I don't know, there's maybe a lot to talk about, but that's probably the thing I appreciate the most is the stuff, sure you could talk to your spouse about it or you can maybe talk to somebody else, but it's a great outlet for us all to be heard and it's one I really appreciate.

Chris Whitfield (47:57.951)

to add to that.

Ray Nabb (47:58.442)

It's the kind of place, it's also the place where you can have conversations as a CEO or a leader and then a minute later you're 13 years old talking about butts.

Chris Burkhard (48:15.131)

Yeah, I was going to invite Seymour, but he was busy.

Ray Nabb (48:19.05)

It's

Chris Whitfield (48:21.831)

My note I added that just, I do a lot of things with guys, they fish and there's no one time that you have, like men don't talk to each other generally. They don't talk about their lives to each other. And it's the one time that actually happens. And if we have a conversation or something going on, that you can have that discussion. And for whatever reason, it doesn't, we open up and I don't know why that is, I can't explain it, but we...

We take advantage of it and I appreciate that. I appreciate all you guys for that.

Chris Burkhard (48:56.226)

We all smell the same. We all think we're on the verge of throwing up probably Chris, but there's more to that. I think it's you're right. It just, you get there's your thought about where you had that moment. I think you have that same kind of moment where it's okay. Just talk about stuff too, you know, and that's a good thing.

Mark Muddiman (49:17.108)

Yeah, just getting back to one thing you said before, Chris, I think some of how we've evolved as a group over time is maybe in your earlier hikes, it was kind of like every man for himself to a point. And I think we've all kind of realized we just need to stay closer together and look out for each other as we're going on some of these trips. Cause there is some...

you know, hard, hard sections that we, you just want to make sure your buddy's doing okay. And I think we're all aware of that more so now than before.

Chris Burkhard (49:48.747)

I hope.

Chris Burkhard (49:53.13)

In the early years, one of us often got lost for miles at a time. Uh, so I think you're right. It's more natural to do that. But in the beginning, we just like, we're like running a race and whoever finished first, finished first. And, but I think that's been a nice thing, especially as the slowest member of the misfits. Uh, it's certainly something I get. Um, it really simple question, but why do we backpack?

Why do you backpack?

Jack Nystrom (50:26.68)

Well, I do it for exercise, to do something other than cycling. That's the first reason. And then the second reason is what we were all just talking about with the comradery. You can talk about stuff that you're not going to talk to somebody else about, or your mind is just relaxed and stuff comes up that you wouldn't think of when you're doing all your other day to day chores.

Chris Burkhard (50:52.866)

So Jack, this would be more, my role would be to say that your notes said you said to get, it was to get away from your wife, Laura. That's what I'm supposed to say at this point, but, uh, I won't do that. Okay. I won't, I won't do that at all. That would be rough to listen to. Yeah. What are French? Exactly. Now she's just going to love it. Be like, great. How about you guys? Why are you backpack?

Ray Nabb (51:02.843)

Hehehehe

Jack Nystrom (51:04.555)

Okay.

Mark Muddiman (51:08.012)

friends for.

Jack Nystrom (51:08.096)

Right, now she can watch the podcast.

Yeah.

Ray Nabb (51:17.718)

Everything Jack said, a simple thing is it heightens my senses, the smell, the taste of things, the sight. It's not always good smells, but there's a lot of good smells. We have to filter our own water. The necessities start, you become aware of necessities again.

Everything's at our fingertips and it's good to kind of ground yourself and you know what good lives we have and comfortable lives but we wouldn't realize that as much if we weren't doing this I don't believe.

Chris Burkhard (52:00.813)

Excellent.

Mark Muddiman (52:04.476)

Yeah, I tack on to what Jack had said. And personally, I just like something where I also have a feeling of motion, whether it's biking or hiking. I just like that feeling of moving. And especially in the woods, it's just so peaceful. And as Ray just said, there's a lot of different smells and your senses are just working hard to take it all in.

Chris Burkhard (52:28.79)

Chris, you wanna go next? You want me to go?

Chris Whitfield (52:30.731)

I, I'll go. I, I just like to be outside. Uh, you're talking about smells. One of the first things I do on every trail is I, the first pine tree that I come across is I swipe, I swipe the pine needles off of, off of the pine tree. And I rub my hands together and probably the first 30 minutes of the walk. All I do is just stick my hands up to my face and smell my hands and just, and take that in and it's, it's just the way I started a trip, but

Being outside for three days just really clears your brain. I think that, you know, obviously the camaraderie and the fellowship is part of it, but I think it's primal to get outside and be outside and to be out and survive without, you know, the comforts of home. I just love that aspect of backpacking.

Chris Burkhard (53:22.594)

So for me, my whole life, I spent my early years outside. I wanted to work outside. I wanted to be a park ranger. I wanted to, you know, my early years were like that. I, and I spent my whole life at a desk, which is so absurd if you think about that. But in the beginning, when we started to do it again, it was about getting back in shape. It was about getting out in the woods because that's how I view myself is being out in the woods.

But now it's really kind of funny. It's changed for me. I'm, I'm going to do it until I can't. And that's why I do it. Like I'm now determined to do it and overcome and whatever's hard. I'm just not going to, I'm, you know, I forget where we were Jack and Mark, but we met someone on his last hike. I think it was North Carolina, the Balds, I think. Not Rogers. And to honor the man.

Jack Nystrom (54:14.189)

Oh, no, Mount Rogers. Yeah.

Chris Whitfield (54:14.269)

Yeah.

Mark Muddiman (54:14.492)

Mount Rogers, Mount Rogers, yep.

Chris Burkhard (54:19.338)

He was someone who was in a retirement home. I think he snuck out and he was going to be, uh, on his last hike. And he was walking around and backpacking and, you know, pretty old and at least Jack's age, I think, um, you know, somewhere around, sorry, I can't help myself, but you know, he was pretty beat up bloody. Um, and he came up to us and said, you know,

Chris Whitfield (54:39.957)

HMM

Chris Burkhard (54:43.882)

Have you seen my daughter? We're like, no, what does she look like? He goes, no, I'm, I'm walking away from her, you know? So I hope someday that my kids are looking for me in the woods. All jokes aside, you know, and they know that's where they'll probably find me. Um, so kind of jumped around guys have anything you want to cover? Um, coming closer to the rap here.

I do want to talk a little bit about the future, like where we want to take this thing. Um, maybe goals we have. I was thinking how, how proud I was when we did some charitable stuff as a group. We're, we're all, we all have tremendous abundance and we're very generous. And, uh, I admire the things we've done there. Uh, but is there anything else you guys want to touch on other than our future and where you, where you think we're headed?

Chris Whitfield (55:34.389)

Thank you.

You have one question you didn't get to, where we kind of jumped around a little bit and you said talk about the camaraderie and the friendship aspect of this. And one of the things that I wrote down was that we've all become closer friends because of this group, but it kind of, for me, the name Misfits rings through because under normal circumstances and outside of this group, I don't know that we would be friends or even that close of a group of guys.

Mark Muddiman (55:37.596)

Yeah.

Chris Whitfield (56:06.239)

to be honest with you. I knew Mark and Chris, I would have never met Jack and I probably never met Ray. And without the hiking, I think that Chris and Mark and I would probably be more acquaintances or business clients or something along that line. And I'm just appreciative of the fact that we were able to create this group or become part of the group and make our friendships greater.

I just wanted to get that in.

Chris Burkhard (56:38.634)

the shared experiences. Anybody want to, anyone either want to give them a hard time or agree with them?

Chris Whitfield (56:45.931)

Hahaha

Jack Nystrom (56:46.56)

I think it's true, yeah.

Mark Muddiman (56:47.74)

No, I'll agree with you. Good points, good points, Chris.

Ray Nabb (56:50.434)

Yeah, I know that when I joined later in the adventure, it was, you guys were well established and I had a feeling of, I'm not sure, you know, how, where I'm going to fit in, how I'm going to fit in. I didn't put a lot of thought into it because generally I just do things because I want to. But, you know, I couldn't help but think, you know.

These guys have a very established group and it takes a lot to get four people together on a trip, let alone five vehicles and whatnot. So as time went by, I felt more and more comfortable in the group and I found, I think, a place. And I think I found the reason why I was invited in the first place. I fit in somewhere.

I'm not always sure where, but I feel part of it.

Chris Burkhard (57:52.982)

So this is a risk, but I have to, so what do we, Ray, what do you guys think makes up a misfit? Why was Ray a fit?

Mark Muddiman (58:05.508)

Same personality traits of being able to laugh at just stupid shit. And just joke around and not take it too seriously, but also contribute to the cause.

Ray Nabb (58:10.234)

Yeah.

Chris Whitfield (58:12.511)

He's 12 at heart.

Chris Burkhard (58:20.298)

and be willing to work through the pain. How many people do you guys know that you say, yeah, we walked 55 miles, not me. I'd never do that. That's crazy. You have weight on your back. Is it flat? So there's a certain mentality I think you have to have. You have to want to do that, right? And then you've got to be able to deal with how it feels to do it.

Mark Muddiman (58:22.983)

Yup.

Chris Whitfield (58:27.839)

Ahem.

Chris Whitfield (58:42.163)

Yes, sir.

Chris Burkhard (58:45.714)

And Ray, I knew, I knew that was gonna be the easy part for you. I did not know you're going to be so good around a fire. That's an added perk. We all talk about that. Your Christmas bonus is coming. Don't you worry.

Ray Nabb (58:55.238)

Thank you.

Hehehehe

Jack Nystrom (59:00.932)

We get little surprises every now and then. I don't remember which trip it was, but there was thoughts about hunters out in the woods. And when we all got together for the trip, Witty showed up with five orange buffs so we could all have some orange on us as we were walking through the woods. That was great. And I still have that thing. I use it all the time.

Chris Burkhard (59:22.958)

Still don't know why you wore it on your ankle Jack, but that's a different story.

Chris Whitfield (59:23.365)

I do too.

Jack Nystrom (59:26.963)

Yeah.

Chris Burkhard (59:28.914)

Yeah, a buff is something around your neck or around your head, and so you don't get shot. Although we don't see a lot of wildlife if you think about it.

Ray Nabb (59:35.534)

I'm sorry. Yeah. No.

Chris Burkhard (59:41.686)

We scare them away with noise and smell probably, I would imagine for real.

Chris Whitfield (59:44.031)

Just right.

The only wildlife we see is ray.

Mark Muddiman (59:48.069)

Yeah, the other out...

Chris Burkhard (59:50.53)

True.

Ray Nabb (59:50.735)

Yeah.

Mark Muddiman (59:54.505)

I was just going to add that for the whoever might listen to this, just think that it's never too late to try. To me, I was fairly old when I started this, never having done it before. And it's not as hard as you think. And you just got to set your mind to it and just do it. And whether it's hiking or something else.

You know, don't wait. Get out there and just try it right now and get outside.

Chris Burkhard (01:00:25.17)

And by the way, there are very few things you can do that can burn 400 to 600 calories an hour all day long. It ain't bad for you on many fronts, you know. That is for sure. So, somebody bring us home. Where are we headed next?

Mark Muddiman (01:00:32.264)

So, yep.

Chris Burkhard (01:00:43.394)

What's our future?

Mark Muddiman (01:00:47.12)

I wrote down, here's what I wrote down. I would love to do these trips four times per year. And I know that gets into issues with family and how much time do we really have, but that's a goal. I'd love to do four, you know, once a quarter would be a nice trip. Then I'd also like to do a two week stretch on the AT. I think that would really be a challenge. You know, one week was.

a fair amount of work, but two weeks I think would be just something totally different.

Chris Burkhard (01:01:20.11)

probably get to a different mental and physical place. I also had a challenge of maybe needing to cash supplies or ship them.

Mark Muddiman (01:01:23.582)

Yes.

Chris Whitfield (01:01:29.434)

It would take a food drop. Yeah, for sure a food drop.

Mark Muddiman (01:01:29.44)

the logistics. Yep. But that's part of the fun though. I enjoy that mental exercise of trying to figure it all out and then just going out and doing it.

Chris Burkhard (01:01:31.788)

Yep.

Chris Whitfield (01:01:39.74)

I could plan that.

Chris Burkhard (01:01:42.358)

There you go. Our logistics supply chain manager will be all over that. That is for sure. I'd like to do, I don't know whether it's the continental divide piece, the section of that, or I'd like to do something more remote than the AT at some point with us. And maybe that

Jack Nystrom (01:01:47.586)

Yeah.

Mark Muddiman (01:01:47.772)

Ha ha ha!

Ray Nabb (01:01:49.051)

Thank you.

Chris Whitfield (01:02:01.695)

I actually have, I would say, or something that includes orienteering. When you say remote, you know, we get an off trail and doing remote, I'd like to try it.

Chris Burkhard (01:02:07.776)

Okay.

Chris Burkhard (01:02:11.958)

Okay, that sounds really interesting. And I think I just really wanna keep being able to do these. That's my goal.

Mark Muddiman (01:02:20.549)

Mm-hmm.

Ray Nabb (01:02:22.626)

Yeah, that's my overall goal to keep, it gives me motivation to make sure my body's right because, you know, I enjoy it so much that I don't want me being lazy to cause me to miss a trip. So in between trips, I'm thinking about that. I think in life that's going to slow down the aging process.

Chris Burkhard (01:02:48.302)

Right? And that discipline between trips is smart, just in general for us. So I love what you're saying there. So I often just say like last and final, any closing things. And then Mark, I think we have, as a Misfit group, we kind of have a, we love John Muir, Wilderness Essays. I think you've got something you want to bring us home and read.

Chris Whitfield (01:03:17.751)

Thank you.

Chris Burkhard (01:03:17.922)

But last and final, anybody want to close with any thoughts?

Mark Muddiman (01:04:13.044)

I'd be curious to hear what Jack has to say though as far as what do you want to do for the future, Jack?

Chris Whitfield (01:04:13.579)

Sorry Chris, I know this is a PG.

Jack Nystrom (01:04:19.444)

Yeah, I don't know about two weeks on the AT. I'm more interested in maybe finding another location.

Chris Burkhard (01:04:23.638)

Jack, you weren't invited on that trip anyway. No, two weeks is a lot, you're right.

Chris Whitfield (01:04:26.112)

Ahem.

Mark Muddiman (01:04:26.285)

Hahaha

Jack Nystrom (01:04:31.548)

Um, but no, like another, uh, Sierra's trip where we did part of the John Muir trail, uh, someplace out West, but, um, I even, uh, I talked to a guy. He said there's some great hiking up in Canada around the Bay of Fundy. So there's just so much out there.

Ray Nabb (01:04:36.518)

Thank you.

Chris Burkhard (01:04:51.294)

And, and obviously I love the West. Uh, hope to, and I hope one of our trips is I host you guys from Teton Valley and maybe we backpack, uh, this will be a real test, but maybe we backpack in Yellowstone. It's a different animal, right? Wolf, grizzly, uh, and wolves. Uh, you got bear spray. I don't know. Do you have wolf spray? Cause you're going to need that too. But, uh,

Jack Nystrom (01:05:10.401)

Yeah.

Mark Muddiman (01:05:11.803)

Grizzlies, yeah, thanks.

Mark Muddiman (01:05:20.144)

I just, we used the buddy system, remember?

Chris Burkhard (01:05:22.77)

I do, yeah. And the body system, Chris.

Chris Whitfield (01:05:24.939)

We can carry, can you carry?

weapons in Yellowstone.

Chris Burkhard (01:05:31.01)

We'll have to look into that. I think you can.

Chris Whitfield (01:05:35.388)

Okay.

Chris Burkhard (01:05:37.262)

I mean, the bear's in the grizzly carry, so why can't you, right? No, I'm not sure if you can. You may have to get a permit for that. But, anything else?

Chris Whitfield (01:05:40.811)

Why not?

Jack Nystrom (01:05:54.016)

No, I think the common theme is, as we've been saying all along, is get outside. That's the number one thing we want to do. And this is a good way to, maybe force isn't the right word, but cajole ourselves into getting outside.

Chris Whitfield (01:06:07.428)

And sure.

Chris Burkhard (01:06:09.742)

Which is why I always just prefer the old get out. You know? Get out!

Mark Muddiman (01:06:10.28)

Yes.

Mark Muddiman (01:06:15.86)

Get out.

Chris Burkhard (01:06:18.122)

Mark, bring us home with the...

Mark Muddiman (01:06:22.148)

Yeah, so this was something I, I don't know if you can see this book, this is a John Muir book to say that he was a prolific writer is an understatement. As you know, he was in the high Sierras for many years, just surveying and writing and discovering and in one of his letters, it's actually to his sister. I was just reading this one day and one of his most famous lines.

just happens to be in this letter, so I figured I would just close with that. I won't read the whole letter, just a paragraph that's of interest. It says, the scotch are slow, but someday I will have the results of my mountain studies in a form in which you all will be able to read and judge of them. In the meantime, I write occasionally for the Overland Monthly, but neither these magazines nor my first book will form any finished part.

of the scientific contribution that I hope to make. The mountains are calling and I must go. And I will work on while I can studying incessantly." Then he goes on to close with the last paragraph. So that's, I think, probably a phrase most people have seen, the mountains are calling and I must go. And that's, I think, what we kind of live by as a group.

Chris Burkhard (01:07:47.202)

I think that's terrific. If it's not on our shirt, it will be, right? If it's not on there, it will be. Well, Miss Fitz, I love you to pieces.

Mark Muddiman (01:07:55.249)

Yes.

Chris Whitfield (01:07:56.447)

Stand up Mark.

Chris Burkhard (01:08:01.99)

And this is pretty terrific. Oh, look at that. So there's the Misfit Hiker. So, and we got something on the back. The mountains are calling and I must go.

Mark Muddiman (01:08:09.577)

See ya!

Chris Burkhard (01:08:14.718)

Mark, you were a little too low. We could see more than the shirt, but it's all good. I know. So we had fun. We laughed, we cried, it was serious. I do love me some misfits and I look forward to our next trip. But thanks for honoring me and kind of taking this seriously, but being yourselves. I think people like real and I think we made good radio. Thanks for being on.

Mark Muddiman (01:08:20.699)

That was intentional.

Mark Muddiman (01:08:31.528)

Amen.

Mark Muddiman (01:08:43.059)

Well, yeah, thanks for doing this, Chris.