German School Shootings

Hey Friends! This week, I have a cherished internet friend, Randi,  join me for the most cases in one episode yet!

A loyal listener & friend of the pod, Dominik emailed me to suggest one of these cases... which led me down a rabbit hole. This week, we're discussing German school shootings. This episode brought to you with LOTS of assistance from Google Translate (#notsponsored)
 
CW :  Mass Murders, School Shootings, Familicide, Bestality, Suicide, Mention of Nazi's


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Sources :
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Youtube Channel :  Weird, Scary & Horrible Parts of Humanity 

Transcript

Episode 24

[00:00:00] Mary : [00:00:00] Monsters walk with us in teens, explicit language, adult themes, violence, and may not be suitable for listeners under 18 listener discretion is strongly advised.

[00:00:17] Welcome back everyone. I'm your host, Mary. And this week I have another wonderful internet friend of mine joining me, Randi. 

[00:00:26] Randi : [00:00:26] Hi! 

[00:00:28] Mary : [00:00:28] Welcome. Thank you so much for coming on. 

[00:00:31] Randi : [00:00:31] Yeah. 

[00:00:32] Mary : [00:00:32] We met through like my favorite murder groups on Facebook, right? 

[00:00:36] Randi : [00:00:36] Oh yeah. 

[00:00:37] Mary : [00:00:37] This week, I have a bunch of cases that we're going to cover more than I've ever covered in one episode before.

[00:00:44] And these came from a listener suggestion, our listener, Dominik  in Germany, who suggested the Hinterkaifeck farm massacre case also suggested one of these cases. And that led me down this rabbit hole of looking at all of these types of [00:01:00] attacks in Germany. And that ended up being like eight cases. So this was a lot of research.

[00:01:06] I also do not speak German, have never spoken German, have never tried to speak German. So as I just told Randi , we're going to be using some Google translate, pronunciations and hoping for the best I have the best intentions. I'm not going to try to mangle them, but we're going by Google. So we got to see what happens.

[00:01:24] The sources that I used for all of these cases were primarily Wikipedia. I also watched a video on the YouTube channel, weird, scary, and horrible parts of humanity. And the content warnings for this episode are mass murders, school shootings, familiar aside beastiality and suicide. 

[00:01:42] The first case that we are talking about today is the Bremen school shooting.

[00:01:47] Heinz Jacob Frederick Ernst Schmidt. I was born in Sülze  on September 24th, 1883. He worked as a teacher until May, 1912. When he had a mental [00:02:00] breakdown, he ended up going into a psychiatric hospital and he had to quit the job entirely he's described as shy and pretty odd. He decided to go to Bremen in December, 1912, just about six months after his stay at the psychiatric hospital.

[00:02:15] Schmidt has huge issues with the Jesuits. The Jesuits are known as the society of Jesus, a subsection of Roman Catholicism. He writes quite a few letters about his anger with them, and he feels that they're very dangerous to the public. He actually blames them for his father's death. His father was a pastor who had died on June 19th, 1913 on June 20th, 1913.

[00:02:40] Hein Schmidt was spotted walking around inside St. Mary's Catholic school. He is carrying a briefcase full of guns. He's got between six to eight guns and a thousand rounds of ammunition. He had been stockpiling bullets for weeks and weeks prior to this. 

[00:02:58] Randi : [00:02:58] Are you serious? 

[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Mary : [00:03:00] The owner of the gun shop did find it a little bit strange that he was buying so much again and again, he did report this to the police, but they brush him off and decide not to investigate.

[00:03:13] Randi : [00:03:13] Oh, no. 

[00:03:14] Mary : [00:03:14] Yep. 

[00:03:15] A teacher Marie Pohl, steps out of her classroom room eight B and sees this disheveled strange man standing in the hallway. She asked him, what the fuck are you doing? And without saying a word, he raises the gun and start shooting. 

[00:03:31] Randi : [00:03:31] Oh. 

[00:03:33] Mary : [00:03:33] He barely misses her head and she is able to duck back inside a different classroom.

[00:03:39] He goes into her room, classroom, eight B, he finds 65 girls in there between the ages of six and seven. He opens fire on them and two are killed immediately. 

[00:03:50] Randi : [00:03:50] Oh. 

[00:03:52] Mary : [00:03:52] He there's 15 other girls. Some girls start running out of the classroom and he chases them out, continuing to shoot. 

[00:04:00] [00:04:00] Randi : [00:04:00] Oh, no. 

[00:04:02] Mary : [00:04:02] At this point, one girl fell down the stairs and died just in all this commotion of everybody trying and you escape.

[00:04:09] Randi : [00:04:09] Oh. 

[00:04:10] Mary : [00:04:10] Yeah. 

[00:04:11] Randi : [00:04:11] Poor things. 

[00:04:13] Mary : [00:04:13] He turns around and heads back towards the classrooms. But another teacher had managed to hurry and get the doors locked. Before he came back a school, janitor sees him and tries to stop him. He does manage to punch me in the face, but then Schmidt is able to run up the stairs.

[00:04:31] Teacher Hubert Möllmann tackled him when he reached the top of the steps, Schmidt managed to wrestle himself away and he shoots Hubert Möllmann  twice. Once in the stomach and once in the shoulder. He then goes on to shoot out a window and start shooting at children who were outside. 

[00:04:48] Randi : [00:04:48] Oh.

[00:04:50] He hits five of them and they are injured. But these five children survive. 

[00:04:54] Oh my God. 

[00:04:56] Mary : [00:04:56] A roofer nearby is struck by a stray bullet and [00:05:00] rushes outside runs towards the school. And at this point, a small crowd has gathered because they've been hearing these gunshots by the time they get to the school, Schmidt had been taken down by the janitor and another teacher. Last name, Hartley, the cops arrive. They bring Schmidt outside and take him into custody. There is a literal, angry mob. Outside, they're out for his blood. They start rushing the cops and attacking Schmidt and they want to kill him. 

[00:05:31] Randi : [00:05:31] I mean, I don't blame them. 

[00:05:34] Mary : [00:05:34] Right. The cops regain control of the crowd using their swords and are able to transport him to jail.

[00:05:43] Randi : [00:05:43] Swords? 

[00:05:44] Mary : [00:05:44] This  is 1913. 

[00:05:46] Randi : [00:05:46] Okay. Yeah. Okay. 

[00:05:47] Okay.

[00:05:48]Mary : [00:05:48] I know that threw me too . 

[00:05:49]Randi : [00:05:49] I was like, wait.

[00:05:50]Mary : [00:05:50] Schmidt  was only able to fire 35 shots of his planned 1000. 3 of the girls he shot died immediately. [00:06:00] And two girls died months later due to their gunshot wounds.

[00:06:04]Randi : [00:06:04] Oh my gosh. These poor kids.

[00:06:07]Mary : [00:06:07] I know. I can't even imagine three them, the girls he shot died immediately. Two girls died months later due to their gunshot wounds. 

[00:06:15] Randi : [00:06:15] No.

[00:06:16]Mary : [00:06:16] In total 18 children and three adults were injured in this attack. The five girls that died were Anna Kubica, Sophie Gornisiewicz, died by falling down the stairs, Elsa Maria Herrmann, Elfriede Höger, died four weeks after the shooting and Maria Anna Rychlik.

[00:06:38] More than 30,000 people attended the funeral procession when the girls were brought to the cemetery.

[00:06:43] Randi : [00:06:43] Did she say 30,000, 30,000 people? 

[00:06:48] Mary : [00:06:48] Yeah. 

[00:06:48] Randi : [00:06:48] That's like so sweet, but so heartbreaking. 

[00:06:50]Mary : [00:06:50] Kaiser Wilheim, who was on parade was interrupted by this. When he heard about this shooting, he rescheduled his parade. And along with [00:07:00] all the former Kings highest leaders and Nobles, they joined the funeral procession.

[00:07:06] Randi : [00:07:06] Oh. 

[00:07:07] Mary : [00:07:07] After that he also passed tougher gun laws. 

[00:07:10] Randi : [00:07:10] What's that like

[00:07:11] Mary : [00:07:11] the entire time that I worked on these notes, which was a long time fucking time. Imagineer that, that something happens and you change the law. What's that like? What's that like? 

[00:07:24] Randi : [00:07:24] I can't even imagine it's unreal.  

[00:07:27] Mary : [00:07:27] right. 

[00:07:28] Schmidt ends up being examined at the St Jürgen  asylum in Ellen, where he was found to be insane. He remained there until March 31st in 1932, when he died of tuberculosis. 

[00:07:40]

[00:07:40] Onto the second case. When I was doing the notes for the second case, there is one part that made me laugh and laugh and laugh my ass off literal L M a O O like I, it just is so good. And I said  it to Mike last night and he did not laugh. [00:08:00] Like no, nobody found it as funny as me when I was telling Mike and his parents about it on the phone. So we'll just see maybe someone out there will also get a kick out of this. Let me know on the Instagram, if you enjoy this part, as much as we all call it out. When we get there, 

[00:08:12] Ernst August  Wagner was born on September 22nd, 1874. He was born near Ludwigsburg in Eglosheim , into a large family. He is the ninth of 10 children. 

[00:08:25] Randi : [00:08:25] Oof. 

[00:08:25] Mary : [00:08:25] He also has a half-brother and a half sister by 1913. Many of the siblings have died or it's now only has two sisters and one brother still living Ernst father was an alcoholic and he died the day before Ernst turned two.

[00:08:41] His mother had to sell their farm and started running a small shop to try to take care of her kids. She does remarry, but she has quite a few affairs. And her husband divorces her when Ernst is seven. Ernst is then bullied in school as the widow's boy, he later says that he suffered from [00:09:00] depression and suicidal thoughts while he was in school.

[00:09:02] At this time, he's actually doing well academically because he is pretty smart. He actually is able to get a public academic stipend. He uses this to become a teacher and he passes the teaching qualifying exams. He ends up working at a few schools in Wurtenburg between 1894 and 1901. He was suspended at one point for six months because of extreme irritability and severe nervousness.

[00:09:30] Randi : [00:09:30] Okay. 

[00:09:30] Mary : [00:09:30] He writes some poems, as Tori said, when she came on the Israel Keyes  episode poems, and he tries to sell them to Swiss newspapers. And I say tries because it doesn't work. 

[00:09:43] Randi : [00:09:43] Oh, no. 

[00:09:45] Mary : [00:09:45] He travels back to Germany and in July, 1901, he gets a new job teaching in Mulhouse and Ander ends. He works there until 1902 and he starts getting wasted regularly.

[00:10:00] [00:09:58] Randi : [00:09:58] Oh. 

[00:10:00] Mary : [00:10:00] Don't, let's not feel bad for him because what I'm about to say is going to turn this.. 

[00:10:04] Randi : [00:10:04] Yeah. 

[00:10:05] Mary : [00:10:05] Fucking quick. 

[00:10:06] Randi : [00:10:06] Yeah. I have a feeling this is going to get real dark.

[00:10:09]Mary : [00:10:09] One night. He gets really, really drunk and he rapes an animal. 

[00:10:14] Randi : [00:10:14] Oh no. 

[00:10:15] Mary : [00:10:15] Yeah. So if you felt bad for him at all, that's over.

[00:10:19]Randi : [00:10:19]  Ohh no. 

[00:10:21] Mary : [00:10:21] Fuck this guy. 

[00:10:22] Randi : [00:10:22] Yeah, no. 

[00:10:25] Mary : [00:10:25] He then starts getting super paranoid that everybody knows that he raped an animal.

[00:10:32] Randi : [00:10:32] Oh no, I mnmn.

[00:10:35] Mary : [00:10:35] You know, if you didn't do that, you wouldn't have to be fucking worried about that.

[00:10:39]Randi : [00:10:39] So weird. 

[00:10:40] Mary : [00:10:40] Quick aside, there is a Chuck Palahniuk book that I read. I can't remember the name of it right now off the top of my head, but there is a chapter in this book about people having sex with a horse. 

[00:10:51] Randi : [00:10:51] You know, there was a guy who died doing that.

[00:10:53] Mary : [00:10:53] That's what this chapter is about getting he died after he had [00:11:00] sex with or, 

[00:11:01] Randi : [00:11:01] Oh yeah. 

[00:11:04] Mary : [00:11:04] It's a good thing that we will never understand. 

[00:11:06] Randi : [00:11:06] Right.

[00:11:07]Mary : [00:11:07] And if you are listening to this for whatever reason, and you understand, I need you to stop. And go find help. Stop what you're doing. Pause, pull over your car, whatever the fuck you're doing right now. If this makes sense to you, stop, take several seats. Please go find help. 

[00:11:25] He starts to see these signs that prove to him that people in town know his disgusting secret animal abuse shame, and he decides to buy a gun. He starts carrying it on him constantly in case he gets accused and arrested. So it's to that level, his extreme paranoia that like everybody knows,

[00:11:49]Randi : [00:11:49] Oh my God.

[00:11:51] Mary : [00:11:51] It's confirmation bias thing that happens. That feels a little bit weird or off is proof to him like, Oh, everybody knew. 

[00:12:00] [00:12:00] Randi : [00:12:00] Yeah. 

[00:12:01] Mary : [00:12:01] I have a lot of anxiety. And I understand filling in the blanks of like, Oh, this minor interaction, or like they used a period instead of an exclamation point, or I totally understand that this is not that this is a next level, extreme paranoia. Not for nothing. You should get fucking caught. My dude.

[00:12:23]Randi : [00:12:23] Yeah.

[00:12:25]Mary : [00:12:25] Unfortunately he does not. And Ernst meets Anna Friedericke Schlecht,  the daughter of a local innkeeper. They start having sex and she gets pregnant. 

[00:12:35] Randi : [00:12:35] Oh. 

[00:12:36] Mary : [00:12:36] One problem though. He hates her entire family, especially her dad. He also believes that her dad hates him right back just as much. Once Anna gets knocked up, he pretty much knows I have to marry her. Now Anna ends up giving birth to a baby girl Clara in early 1902. 

[00:12:55] Randi : [00:12:55] Wow.

[00:12:56]Mary : [00:12:56] In December, 1902 Ernst mother died. He was [00:13:00] very, very close with her. So he feels this loss deeply. He has his final teaching qualification exam. And when he passes, he is transferred to a remote and poor village nearby called Mühlhausen. 

[00:13:12] Randi : [00:13:12] And he's still going to school to be a teacher for all this at. 

[00:13:15] Mary : [00:13:15] Throughout all of this. Yes. 

[00:13:16] Randi : [00:13:16] Oh no, no.

[00:13:17]Mary : [00:13:17] He's fully ready to go be a teacher. And has this posting. This transfer to this remote village helps him and hurts him. He's really salty about this placement because it's not a good one, but he gets a break from these feelings of persecution because he did pass the teaching test. However, the rumors about him raping an animal, do follow him. 

[00:13:42] Randi : [00:13:42] Oh, my God.

[00:13:43]Mary : [00:13:43] I really am speechless. 

[00:13:45] So I did these notes a while back. I've been trying to like batch the notes and I forgot how much of a theme this was in this one. When I was reading the content wording, I was like, Oh yeah, the beastiality. But yeah, this is a lot of it. 

[00:14:00] [00:13:59] On December 29th, 1903, Anna and Ernst got married. Clara is 10 months old when they get married, most likely they only get married because of the societal expectations of the time. I don't think that they wanted to. 

[00:14:14] Randi : [00:14:14] Yeah. 

[00:14:15] Mary : [00:14:15] Ernst didn't love Anna and did not pretend to, he treated her fine, but it was very clearly not a marriage of romance or for love in it anyway.

[00:14:27] Randi : [00:14:27] No, it was a shotgun wedding. 

[00:14:29] Mary : [00:14:29] Ernst also believes Anna is very stupid. He thinks of her and treats her more like a maid than his wife in 1904. He goes on a summer vacation to Switzerland. He attempted suicide during this trip twice. First, he tried to drown himself. And when that failed, he jumped off of a bridge.

[00:14:51] Randi : [00:14:51] Oh, wow. 

[00:14:52] Mary : [00:14:52] He survives both attempts and later he says that he was too weak to complete suicide. 

[00:14:58] Randi : [00:14:58] Oh [00:15:00] wow. 

[00:15:00] Mary : [00:15:00] As someone who has been suicidal and will be again in my life at points. Oh yeah. I'm sure that statement really. I was like, ah, that one hurts. 

[00:15:11] Randi : [00:15:11] No, I feel that one. Yeah. 

[00:15:12] Mary : [00:15:12] No,  I still don't feel bad for you. I just identify with that feeling, right?

[00:15:17] Randi : [00:15:17] Yes. 

[00:15:18] Mary : [00:15:18] To be clear. 

[00:15:19] Anna and Ernst have four more kids. Ernst does not give a single shit about any of these children. 

[00:15:25] Randi : [00:15:25] Oh man. 

[00:15:27] Mary : [00:15:27] I don't want kids, but I did have a relationship. My ex, we talked about having kids, even though neither of us wanted them or felt like we would love them. We thought we'd make attractive kids. And like that was a conversation that we were having.

[00:15:40]Randi : [00:15:40] Yeah. 

[00:15:41] Mary : [00:15:41] I don't know that that would have been like more than a conversation for me. You know what I mean? 

[00:15:45] Randi : [00:15:45] It's a big commitment, more kids? Like.

[00:15:49]Mary : [00:15:49] Four more kids, five total. He is very unhappy about Anna getting pregnant and always complains about how much money all these kids [00:16:00] cost on Ernst birthday in 1909, his son dies.

[00:16:04] Randi : [00:16:04] Hmm. 

[00:16:06] Mary : [00:16:06] He does not have much of a reaction. And the people who were there described him as indifferent. 

[00:16:12] Randi : [00:16:12] Oh, that poor family. 

[00:16:17] Mary : [00:16:17] On your birthday. And you're like, you ruined my cake. Being the siblings in that room. 

[00:16:22] Randi : [00:16:22] Um, I, I can't even imagine I got nothing.

[00:16:27]Mary : [00:16:27] About three years before his son dies, Ernst paranoia and persecution complex is back in full force. He's worried that people have spilled the tea about him being an animal rapist. And he feels like he's being watched all the time and that people are making fun of him behind his back. He also starts developing a revenge plan because he wants to get back at the people in Mühlhausen  and especially all the men.

[00:16:54] Of course, that's the source of all his problem. These other men, not your fucking beastiality. 

[00:16:59] Randi : [00:16:59] Cause he's [00:17:00] definitely not the problem.

[00:17:01]Mary : [00:17:01] No, no, not at all. 

[00:17:02] Randi : [00:17:02] Yeah.

[00:17:02]Mary : [00:17:02] Everybody else is the problem. And I have to deal with that.

[00:17:06]Randi : [00:17:06] Yup.

[00:17:07]Mary : [00:17:07] I'm face palming. Like if my Palm could push my forehead out the back of my head. 

[00:17:13] Randi : [00:17:13] Right.

[00:17:14] Mary : [00:17:14] Ernst buys his first gun. A Mauser pistol in fall 1907 in 1909. He buys another Mauser pistol and starts taking little day trips on his motorized bicycle. He loves this bike more than anything or anyone else. 

[00:17:32] Yikes. 

[00:17:34] Randi : [00:17:34] So he loves the bike more than his kids at this point.

[00:17:37] Mary : [00:17:37] Yeah.

[00:17:38]Randi : [00:17:38] Oh man. 

[00:17:40] Mary : [00:17:40] He starts going deep into the forest and finding secret places to practice shooting his pistols. So we're having a full Annie Oakley fantasy out in the woods. 

[00:17:50] Ernst desperately wants a new job and start sending in transfer requests because another transfer is going to resolve all of the issues. I swear, 

[00:17:59] Randi : [00:17:59] of [00:18:00] course, totally. 

[00:18:00] Mary : [00:18:00] Just move me one more time. And it we're going to be golden. 

[00:18:04] Randi : [00:18:04] Answers everything.

[00:18:05] Mary : [00:18:05] Eventually he is given a transfer on May 1st, 1912. He started his new job. He's going to be working in Degerloch, a suburb of Stuttgart. By this point, he is fully committed to the revenge plan. As soon as he starts the job day one, all of the evidence is adding up. Everyone knows what he did. Everybody here knows that he raped that animal.

[00:18:25] So the transfer wasn't the answer is what I'm getting from that.

[00:18:28]Randi : [00:18:28] Shocking. 

[00:18:29] Mary : [00:18:29] It's so weird.

[00:18:31] Randi : [00:18:31] That's so weird. 

[00:18:32] Mary : [00:18:32] Cause you know, that was going to solve everything right there.

[00:18:34] Is just going somewhere new and starting over again, right? 

[00:18:38] Randi : [00:18:38] Oh no. 

[00:18:39] Mary : [00:18:39] He is somewhat able to hold himself together until spring 1913. But there's a day somewhere in there where he decides the time is here, he starts forming the fine details of his plan. He's going to wait until summer break and then it's on like donkey Kong, like the break of Dawn, like cheech and chong. 

[00:19:00] [00:18:59] Randi : [00:18:59] Oh no. 

[00:19:01] Mary : [00:19:01] He starts writing letters to explain why he had to take his revenge. So little mini manifestos and letter form.

[00:19:08] We love a manifesto on this podcast. 

[00:19:10] Randi : [00:19:10] Right? 

[00:19:11] Mary : [00:19:11] September 4th, 1913, Ernst starts his plan. He gets up around 5:00 AM and hits Anna on the head knocking her unconscious while she is knocked out. He stabs her repeatedly and the neck, heart and lungs. He kills his children by stabbing them as well. And then he takes blankets and covers all of their bodies.

[00:19:32] Oh wow.

[00:19:34] Ernst washes and changes. Before Annie grabbed your gun, he gets his three guns and packs a bag. He grabs a black veil of Anna's. A belt and 500 rounds of ammunition. He then writes a cheerful note saying that they've all taken a family trip.

[00:19:52]Randi : [00:19:52] Why is it always a family trip? 

[00:19:53] Mary : [00:19:53] This motherfucker who hates everyone. I went to Switzerland by himself. Now wants to take everybody on a family trip. 

[00:20:00] [00:20:00] Randi : [00:20:00] Oh no. 

[00:20:02] Mary : [00:20:02] He also goes to his landlady's place and leaves a note for a milk order. So he leaves a note and money behind for her to order milk for them.

[00:20:13]Randi : [00:20:13] And he just like left them covered with blankets. 

[00:20:16] Mary : [00:20:16] Clearly he's trying to buy time, but it doesn't make sense.

[00:20:21] He then hops on his motorized bicycle belt for one, he gets to guard where then he takes the train back to English time. And along the way, he buys a backpack. He gets to his brother's house around 11:00 AM. His sister-in-law's home, but his brother is not Ernst. Make small talk with his wife, they chat for a bit. And then Ernst says, I'm going to go get my kids and I'm going to come back and we can all spend the night together here. He says, it's going to be really late by the time I get back. Cause I have to go take the train to get them and take the train back. You should make sure to leave a door unlocked for me so that I can get in without waking you guys up. When I get back. [00:21:00] On his way out, he stops in their garden and sees a haystack. He hides over 200 bullets in this haystack. He then takes his nephew and niece and they walk him to the train station. They survive, he takes the train and he mails off some more letters that he had written, mostly to his family.

[00:21:22] And this note is why I knew that I had to do this case and the one that just made me just laugh. He writes his sister, a letter, very deep, very meaningful. 

[00:21:32] It simply says. Nimm Gift!  Ernst, which means take poison. I ah, you love to see it. 

[00:21:41] Randi : [00:21:41] He told his sister to take poison? 

[00:21:44] Mary : [00:21:44] Everybody else is getting these manifestos. She gets take poison. 

[00:21:49] Randi : [00:21:49] Oh my God. Oh no. 

[00:21:53] Mary : [00:21:53] He also sends one letter to a known local philosopher and theologists Christoph Schrempf  and a [00:22:00] newspaper. So they also get longer letters, than his sister. 

[00:22:07] He heads back to Bietigheim, has his bicycle checked out at a mechanic shop, sends out two copies his autobiography, one of them to dear Christoph Schrempf.  Around 7:00 PM, he leaves for Mühlhausen and he gets there around 11:00 PM. Ernst puts on his belt, puts a hat on and takes everything out of the bag that he'd packed.

[00:22:29] He had planned to cut all the telephone lines that connected to the village. But when he got there, he decided that would be too much work. 

[00:22:36] Randi : [00:22:36] Yes. Out of all of this, that is too much work.

[00:22:39]Mary : [00:22:39] Yes. The manifestos, the letters the all day on the train, going all over the place. 

[00:22:47] Randi : [00:22:47] Oh no.

[00:22:49]Mary : [00:22:49] It had rained a lot recently, and Ernst felt that the telephone poles were just a little bit too high up.

[00:22:58] Randi : [00:22:58] Oh my [00:23:00] god.  

[00:23:01] Mary : [00:23:01] I can't. This man. 

[00:23:03] He walks deeper into Mühlhausen  and finds four barns that he sets on fire right away. He covers his face with the black veil and starts walking through the streets, shooting any man that he sees. Ernst later claims that any female victims had been hit by stray bullets, unintentionally.

[00:23:22] He shoots 80 bullets in total hitting 20 people. Eight people die immediately, and two animals die as well as a result of the barn fires a few buildings in the village burned down completely before the villagers and military were able to get them out. And one person who was shot died a few hours later.

[00:23:41] Randi : [00:23:41] Oh. 

[00:23:42] Mary : [00:23:42] So just so much damage to this village and this community. Towards the end of Ernst's attack, he had forgotten to reload and three of the villagers were able to get control of him by hitting him with garden hose and swords. We love a sword, right? He gets [00:24:00] fucked up. His left hand is smashed to a jelly and nearly cut off. He is hit in his face and right hand as well. He got knocked the fuck out. 

[00:24:10] Randi : [00:24:10] Good. 

[00:24:10] Mary : [00:24:10] A la Friday, and they leave him for dead in the street. 

[00:24:15] Randi : [00:24:15] Good. 

[00:24:16] Mary : [00:24:16] Around 2:00 AM. A police officer finds him lying on the streets, still alive. When he wakes up, he tells the cops that he killed Anna and their children. He also says that he had planned to complete suicide at the end of his killing spree.

[00:24:30] But now that they had caught him, he would like them to give him the death sentence by decapitation. Not even kill me. Like I want you to cut my head off. It would be fast, I guess? 

[00:24:41] Randi : [00:24:41] I don't feel like he should say how he gets to die after all of that. 

[00:24:46] Mary : [00:24:46] I agree with that. I have my thing that I would like to do, but it's a human rights violation as my friend tells me. So I'm not in charge of this stuff, which is probably a good thing for this earth. 

[00:24:58] After being [00:25:00] questioned for a few hours, Ernst starts to become concerned about his injuries and is brought to the hospital. So they just have it like in a cell and even take it for medical attention. They just brought him in and waited for him to wake up. And we're like, what, what the fuck is wrong with you my dude? His left forearm has to be completely amputated. 

[00:25:20] Randi : [00:25:20] Good. 

[00:25:21] Mary : [00:25:21] He is actually the first person in Württemberg  to be found not guilty by reason of insanity. After several psychiatric assessments diagnosed him with suffering from paranoia, he was then brought to an asylum in Winnenthal, where he later wrote several plays and dramas, which I'm sure were just fucking terrible. 

[00:25:39] He died there of tuberculosis in 1938. The victims were Anna Wagner, his wife, Klara Wagner, who was  10. Elsa Wagner, who is eight. Robert Wagner, six. Richard Wagner, five. The other victims were Marie Magdalena Bader, who was 10. [00:26:00] Georg Friedrich Bauer, who was  64. Johann Friedrich Geissinger, 60. Adolf Heinrich Knötzele, 52. Johann Jakob Knötzele, 50.  Johann Georg Müller, 54, Jakob Franz Schmierer, 32.  Christian Thomas Vogel, 65 and Christian Widmaier, 68.  

[00:26:19] Randi : [00:26:19] Man. 

[00:26:20] Mary : [00:26:20] I know. 

[00:26:22] Next attack is known as the cologne school massacre. Der Feuerteufel von Volkhoven. That sounded okay. 

[00:26:30] This is the case that Dominik  suggested. It's a case that they said they've never seen on any non German podcast and most crime cases in Germany end up getting overshadowed by Hinterkaifeck  because it's still unsolved.

[00:26:44] And it was a huge deal known as the fire devil of Volkhoven. We are talking about Willie Walter Siefert. Walter was born in Bickendorf, Cologne in 1921. His father worked as a glass grinder, meaning he's using drills and sanding belts and [00:27:00] shaping glassware from 1927 to 1935. He attended the Volksschule in the city of Ehrenfeld.

[00:27:07] Ehrenfeld  is one of several districts in cologne. He finds an apprenticeship as a metal worker and completes it at the age of 28 in 1939 in 1941, he was drafted into the Luftwaffe and attended the weaponry technology school of the air force for one year. By the end of that year, he was a Sergeant in an anti-aircraft battery. And after he fought in the war, he was captured and held for several months as a prisoner of war, which good cause you're a fucking Nazi. He eventually ends up back in West Germany, working in a car factory and he joins the Schutzpolizei , the German police force in 1945. In 1946, he gets treatment for a bronchial obstruction and a specialist found out that he had tuberculosis.

[00:27:51] He is dismissed from the police force for being unfit for service. Walter starts to feud with the German government around this time because [00:28:00] his war pension income was not what he wanted. He develops a persecution complex. And starts to resent both the doctors and the police for just leaving him bereft.

[00:28:10] Another, this is everybody else's fault, but me it's the persecution complex in white men trend that we're going to continue to go over for me.

[00:28:21] His tuberculosis is later discovered to be in remission slash inactive and his pension amount. The reduced earning capacity dropped down to 30%. So even less pension money is coming his way.

[00:28:34] Now they also determined that his illness and his time as a prisoner of war were not connected. And this further drives his distrust of doctors. He alleges that they falsified his documents and they are conspiring to work against him.

[00:28:49] Randi : [00:28:49] Oh no. 

[00:28:50] Mary : [00:28:50] He is sent to a sanatorium for examination and the doctors find him to be quote, mentally devious.

[00:28:57] He is sent to a neurological and [00:29:00] psychiatry specialist who observed quite a few odd behaviors. Including smiling all the time. Even when inappropriate, extreme medical, paranoia, and signs of schizophrenia, doctors decide not to hospitalize him. And he is released, you saw all that. And you said he seems fine.

[00:29:21] Randi : [00:29:21] No. 

[00:29:22] Mary : [00:29:22] A few months after being released, he marries a woman named Renatta. She dies during childbirth, due to an embolism. This drives him completely over the edge. He believes that the doctors are responsible for her death because they must have botched her medical treatment. He writes a 120 page manifesto called matricide individual fate and analysis of a system.

[00:29:47] Oh, 120 pages? 

[00:29:50] A fucking novella. 

[00:29:51] Randi : [00:29:51] Like, Oh my God. 

[00:29:54] Mary : [00:29:54] He has had it. 

[00:29:56] I'm going to read basically a translated [00:30:00] passage from the book. The doctor is the greatest mass murderer of the poor in the history of mankind. What to do? Appeal to their conscience? Useless. Whoever does something like that has no, no conscience. Does the aforementioned science count before any court? No, thus begins the vigilante justice, the terror of the medical society in the pluralistic chaos of criminality, but terror can only be extroverted with counter terror and whoever denies me, the protection of the law forces, the cudgel into my hand.

[00:30:30] You have the nerve, you have the absolute nerve. I find it very rich that you want to talk about mass murderers. 

[00:30:42] Randi : [00:30:42] Oh boy. 

[00:30:43] Mary : [00:30:43] God, to be a mediocre white man with this much confidence. 

[00:30:50] Randi : [00:30:50] Yup.

[00:30:51] Mary : [00:30:51] And to say, this is your fault that I have to become violent because the law won't help me. 

[00:31:00] [00:31:00] He mails out this manifesto to doctors, pharmacological companies, and anyone who might listen, how much money did you spend on these copies my dude?  

[00:31:10] Randi : [00:31:10] And he was complaining about not getting enough pension. 

[00:31:12] Mary : [00:31:12] Yes. Right.

[00:31:14] You're complaining you have no money, you got a loaf of bread underneath each arm. 

[00:31:21] Randi : [00:31:21] But no, no, do this. 

[00:31:22] Mary : [00:31:22] And it's all the doctor's fault, anyway. So. 

[00:31:25] Sometime in April, 1964, Walter began building his own weapons, a spear with a broomstick, attaching a triangular piece of steel, possibly a small shovel. He also makes a mace with a pump bracket, and finally, he makes a flame thrower with an old insecticide sprayer that he filled with accelerant and on the nozzle, he covered it with a bunch of wire netting.

[00:31:49] Randi : [00:31:49] Oh. 

[00:31:50] Mary : [00:31:50] On June 11th, 1964 at 9:00 AM. Walter approached a nearby Catholic elementary school carrying his weapons, the school consisted of one main [00:32:00] building and four wooden barracks, each housing, two classes with a total of eight teachers and 380 pupils. He finds a small gate to enter through and is seen by the school security guards. They assume he is a handyman. That's there to fix a lock on the fence. They do directly confront him and ask him what he's doing, but he ignores them and wedges a block of wood into the gate. So it can't be opened. He then starts walking towards one of the teachers Anna Langohr. Anna has a class of female students, and they're doing some outdoor physical education.

[00:32:33] She knows him from town and she's surprised to see him and asked him what he's doing at the school. He responds by igniting the flame thrower and waving it at Anna and the girls and Anna catches fire immediately, as do the girls right around her. 

[00:32:48] Randi : [00:32:48] So the doctors made him do this. 

[00:32:50] Mary : [00:32:50] He moved to one of the smaller Barrack buildings and start smashing every window that he can find with the homemade mace. He opens up the flame thrower again [00:33:00] and starts burning anyone he can find in classrooms inside the building. As people start running from the building and jumping out of windows. He burns them. He runs out of fuel and ditches, the flame thrower, and a teacher, Gertrude Bollenrath, runs out into the school yard.

[00:33:16] He immediately stabs her with the spear. He approaches another Barrack and finds two more teachers Ursula Kuhr and Mrs Kunz. The two women fought desperately to keep him out. They barricaded the doors, but he was able to overpower them. He gets one of the doors open and Ursula loses her balance in the struggle.

[00:33:35] She falls down a flight of stairs and lands on the ground, outside in front of the building. Like fucking Michael Myers. Walter tracks her down, outside and stabs her once in the back and twice in both legs. 

[00:33:50] Horrific. 

[00:33:51] Randi : [00:33:51] What the fuck.

[00:33:52]Mary : [00:33:52] Yep. After this attack on Ursula, Walter runs away from the school. He has a poisonous insecticide  [00:34:00] E605, that he had been planning to use to complete suicide after the attack. His attempt fails because the insecticide is too diluted to be fatal. He is chased by a group of 30 people until he is cornered near a railway embankment. He tries to defend himself with the spear and the police arrive at 9:38 AM. He tries to stab one of the officers with the spear, but they shoot his ass. 

[00:34:25] Randi : [00:34:25] Good. 

[00:34:25] Mary : [00:34:25] After he shot in the leg, he's taken to the hospital for treatment. He is questioned at university hospital in Lindenthal repeatedly, but he dies around 10:00 PM that night.

[00:34:35] Walter's attack on the school lasted a total of just 15 minutes. Ursula Kerr died at the scene while Gertrude Bollenrath succumbed to her wounds in the hospital at 1:00 PM. Along with teachers Anna Langohr and Wiltrud Schweden,  28, students were taken to the hospitals. Some of them had burns up to 90% of their body.

[00:34:56]Randi : [00:34:56] Mm.

[00:34:57]Mary : [00:34:57] Eight of the pupils died in the weeks [00:35:00] following the attack. 

[00:35:00] So the victim's names were Gertrud Bollenrath, who was 62 Ursula Kuhr, who was 24. Dorothea Binner, who was 9. Renate Fühlen, who was nine. Ingeborg Hahn, who was nine. Ruth Hoffman, who was  10. Klara Kröger, who was  nine. Stephan Lischka,  nine. Karen Reinhold, who was 11 and Rosel Röhrig, 12. 

[00:35:22] Both of the teachers who died had schools named after them.

[00:35:25] Anna Langohr, one of the surviving teachers was presented with the metal cross by Pope Paul, the sixth, as well as the metal of merit, the lowest class of the order of merit in the federal Republic of Germany, and also a lifesaving metal that is presented to those who've risked their lives and the pursuit of saving another person's life.

[00:35:46] Randi : [00:35:46] Oh. 

[00:35:47] Mary : [00:35:47] The next case we're going to talk about is the Epstein school shooting. Karel Charva, a native from Prague, Czechoslovakia , and a follower of Slovak communist Alexander Dubcek fled to West Germany in [00:36:00] 1968. Karel lived  in a refugee camp in Zirndorf  for a few years, until he was granted refugee status in 1971. He told people that he was a psychologist who wanted to become a teacher. He moved toMorfelden-Walldorf and later to Darmstadt. He gets a job with a cab company in Frankfurt and works as a cabbie for five years, before he gets caught loosening the lug nuts on the front wheels of two cars. So already showing concerning behavior.

[00:36:27]Randi : [00:36:27] Oh, yeah.

[00:36:28]Mary : [00:36:28] He does get arrested for this by 1981.

[00:36:31] He's living in Frankfurt and working as a security guard. He's a known loner, very quiet. He studies a lot, doing all nighters typing and studying math and chemistry. He's a regular at the gun club and had bought two guns in the last few weeks, leading up to the attack. He becomes aggressive and is noticeably more agitated, but nobody knows why. There have been some suggestions that he was frustrated by his inability to become a teacher. 

[00:36:57] Naturally. Your next step then is, Oh, I [00:37:00] should kill a bunch of children. 

[00:37:01] Randi : [00:37:01] Yeah.

[00:37:02]Mary : [00:37:02] I want to be a teacher and I can't. So this is what I have to do now. 

[00:37:06] Randi : [00:37:06] Completely illogical. 

[00:37:07] Mary : [00:37:07] On June 3rd, 1983, around 7:00 AM. He rented a Volkswagen panel van in Frankfurt and drove around looking for a school that was open.

[00:37:16] Randi : [00:37:16] Oh my God. 

[00:37:17] Mary : [00:37:17] Most of the schools in the area were not open because it was a holiday. Freiherr-vom-Stein Gesamtschule in Eppstein, about 30 kilometers or 18 miles from Frankfurt is where he ends up. Cherva parks near the school. He leaves a few things in his car, including a pair of handcuffs and 160 bullets.

[00:37:36] He enters the school carrying two guns, a nine by 19 millimeter Smith and Wesson model 59 and a 7.65 millimeter caliber Astra as well as seven additional magazines around 10:45 AM. He approaches a classroom, room 213.  Franz-Adolf Gehlhaar is there with his sixth grade English class, Charva fires one shot at him and [00:38:00] misses.

[00:38:00] He leaves the classroom and then quickly walks back in. Franz yells at him to leave the kids alone and just kill me instead. Charva fires seven shots at him. And as Franz is bleeding on the floor, he turns the gun on the children. 

[00:38:14] Randi : [00:38:14] Oh. 

[00:38:15] Mary : [00:38:15] Three children are killed instantly and 13 more are injured. Four would later die from these wounds.

[00:38:22] Randi : [00:38:22] Oh.

[00:38:24]Mary : [00:38:24] Another teacher, Hans-Peter Schmitt, hears the guns and runs to classroom 213. He enters the classroom and is shot and killed immediately. And unarmed police officer named Gisbert Beck  happened to be at the school teaching a course on traffic safety. He is shot and killed as well. When he responds police get to the school and try to come sharp down.

[00:38:46] They want him to surrender peacefully. And because they're not the American police, they're actually focused on deescalating the situation. 

[00:38:53] Randi : [00:38:53] Oh yeah. 

[00:38:54] Mary : [00:38:54] Unfortunately he is not willing to listen. And around 11, 15:00 AM he enters the [00:39:00] classroom across from room 213 and completed suicide. At his autopsy they find high levels of alcohol in his blood. In all Charva had fired about 40 shots. Killed five people and injured another 14. Additionally 30 children were diagnosed with shock. The five people killedby Charva are  Stephanie Herman, who was 12 Javier Martinez, who is 11 Gabrielle Siebert, who is 12 Hans, Peter Schmidt, 36 and Ginsburg Beck 45.

[00:39:29] So the next case we're talking about is the Erfurt school massacre.

[00:39:33] Robert Steinhauser was born on January 22nd, 1983 in September, 2001. He spent a few days away from school and he gives them a doctor's note. This note is quickly found to be a shoddy forgery. Once this is discovered, Robert is expelled from school and at this time there are no exams or automatic awarding of the middle school certificate after 10th grade. Meaning that if you didn't pass 12th grade [00:40:00] or your a level exams. You were fucked in the United States. This would be the equivalent of being expelled from high school without the ability to go on and get a GED. His options are severely limited now in terms of jobs and he has no qualifications to meet any kind of job requirements because he's legally an adult.

[00:40:20] The school does not notify his parents. Robert continues leaving the house and coming home at the same time as he would be if he was going to school. So they have no idea.

[00:40:33] On April 26, 2002, Robert left home at his usual time, he brings with him a  9mm Glock 17, and a Mossberg 590 Mariner 12-gauge,   pump action, shotgun. The shotgun is actually inoperable because this asshole messed it up by playing with it because he is a fucking idiot.

[00:40:54] You love to see it. 

[00:40:55] Randi : [00:40:55] Oh yeah. 

[00:40:56] Mary : [00:40:56] I don't know how to use this gun, but I'm still going to try to plan an attack with it. 

[00:41:00] [00:40:59] Randi : [00:40:59] Right? 

[00:41:00] Mary : [00:41:00] You must have had the worst gun hygiene ever to fuck up a shotgun. How do you mess up a pump action, shotgun. 

[00:41:07] Randi : [00:41:07] You don't. Those are... 

[00:41:09] Mary : [00:41:09] Fucking idiot. 

[00:41:10] Randi : [00:41:10] Oh my God. 

[00:41:12] Mary : [00:41:12] He enters the school around 10:45 AM carrying a backpack with guns and extra ammunition. He goes into the bathroom and changes clothes and puts on a black ski mask to cover his face. He leaves behind his coat and wallet, which has his ID in it.

[00:41:26] Randi : [00:41:26] So smart. 

[00:41:27] Mary : [00:41:27] Around 11:00 AM. He enters the office and finds the school deputy principal and secretary. He shoots both of them and leaves the room as the school's headmistress hears the shots. She comes out of the unlocked office next door and sees their bodies. She runs back into the office, locks the door and calls the police.

[00:41:46] So it is only dumb luck that he did not try that door. He goes upstairs to the first floor of the school. And on the stairs, he shoots a teacher who is in the middle of opening up a classroom. He runs into another classroom and shoots that teacher as [00:42:00] well. Another teacher comes out into the hallway and Robert shoots at him.

[00:42:03] He goes up another floor and enters two more classrooms, finding only students inside. He leaves and finds another classroom across the hall, killing the teacher inside. He enters room211  and finds and shoots another teacher in front of a room of students. He then enters room 208, but the teacher in this room is young. So they blend in with their students and he just leaves.

[00:42:25]Randi : [00:42:25] Oh, my God. 

[00:42:27] Mary : [00:42:27] The terror, right? He goes, so the third floor and enters room 307, killing that teacher. He then reloads his gun magazine. He goes in the hallway and sees another teacher who asked him what he's doing. He ignores her completely and goes on to shoot a teaching trainee and another teacher before going back down to the second floor. At this point, one of the students is able to identify him for the first time on his way down the stairs. He kills another teacher and then enters the second floor on the South side of the building. By now, the students [00:43:00] have been fleeing already, and everybody knows what's going on.

[00:43:03] The students who didn't run are barricading themselves in classrooms and trying to lock all the doors. He sees one teacher trying to run and shoots her in the hallway. She falls into the threshold of an open doorway and he steps over her body turns around and shoots her again while she's on the floor.

[00:43:22] It's just so awful. 

[00:43:25] He reloads the gun magazine for the second time. And in room two Oh eight, a teacher who had not been attacked in the first wave was able to lock the door and was hiding with her students in there. Robert fires through the locked door and ends up killing two students. He goes to the first floor of the school and fires around through the bathroom door.

[00:43:44] This bullet gets stuck in the backpack of a student who had been standing at the sink. They are not injured. The backpack prevents from hitting them. 

[00:43:53] Randi : [00:43:53] Crap. 

[00:43:55] Mary : [00:43:55] What are the odds? 

[00:43:56] Randi : [00:43:56] Oh my God. I can't even imagine.  

[00:44:00] [00:44:00] Mary : [00:44:00] Robert exits the school and goes outside to the school yard. He shot a teacher who had led an evacuation effort for a large group of students.

[00:44:08] He had actually driven them all off school grounds, and I think he came back. Robert reloads the magazines for the last time only five minutes have passed since the first shots were fired. So this happened incredibly quickly. 

[00:44:22] Randi : [00:44:22] Holy crap. 

[00:44:24] Mary : [00:44:24] Police arrive at the school and he opens fire on them. One cop shoots back, but nobody is hit in this exchange. Robert gets really frustrated and goes back inside the school. He finds a window on the first floor and shoots a policemen in the head. At this point, he had fully removed the ski mask that he was wearing and he found a teacher named Reiner Heiss. Reiner Heiss looks Robert in the face and says, you can shoot me now.

[00:44:51] Robert then says, Mr. Heiss, that's enough for today. Heiss tells him, let's go talk in this other room and Robert lowers [00:45:00] the gun and agrees to go with him. Heiss tricks him and locks Robert in a classroom alone. A few moments later, Robert Steinhauser complete suicide by shooting himself in the classroom.

[00:45:11] Randi : [00:45:11] Holy shit. 

[00:45:12] Mary : [00:45:12] That adrenaline and fear, I can't even imagine it. 

[00:45:18] Randi : [00:45:18] Oh my God. 

[00:45:19] Mary : [00:45:19] In total, the attack lasted 20 minutes an hour and a half after the start of the attack. And officer finds Robert's body in the classroom. 71 rounds were fired during the attack and 17 people were killed. In total 12 teachers, one police officer, two students, one secretary and one parent.

[00:45:40] Randi : [00:45:40] Oh no. 

[00:45:41] Mary : [00:45:41] Robert Steinhauser family issues a statement to the news saying that they will forever be sorry that our son and brother has brought such horrifying suffering to the victims and their relatives. An  investigation and commissioned report is completed. And it's determined that the school's director had exceeded her legal [00:46:00] powers in expelling Robert from the school.

[00:46:03] So it was not even a legal exposition. 

[00:46:06] There are no legal repercussions for this. 

[00:46:08] Randi : [00:46:08] Are you serious? 

[00:46:11] Mary : [00:46:11] The only thing that happens is the local government puts out a statement saying that they're disappointed. It's also discovered that legally the school was required to inform Robert's parents. 

[00:46:23] Randi : [00:46:23] Oh my God.

[00:46:25] Mary : [00:46:25] Every avenue that this could have been avoided. 

[00:46:29] Randi : [00:46:29] Oh my God. 

[00:46:31] Mary : [00:46:31] After the shooting, unlike in the U S laws are changed, students in the area are now required to take a certification exam at the end of year 10 slash 10th grade. So if they don't make it to the a levels, they will at least have something to be able to get them into the job market.

[00:46:48] Randi : [00:46:48] Yeah.

[00:46:49] Mary : [00:46:49] In German media, a lot of debates start up around young people and violence, specifically targeted at gamers of violent games, movies, and other forms of media. 

[00:47:00] [00:47:00] Bullshit. 

[00:47:01] You know how I unwind from doing all these awful fucking notes for this true crime podcast, with the worst people on the earth, I watch horror movies.

[00:47:10] You know what I'm not fucking doing? Anything violent. It's ridiculous. And it, it comes up all the time. This, like, if you like violent movies or if you like XYZ, you must have some kind of an issue. 

[00:47:23] Randi : [00:47:23] Yeah. 

[00:47:24] Mary : [00:47:24] And that's really not the problem. 

[00:47:26] Randi : [00:47:26] No. 

[00:47:27] Mary : [00:47:27] You're missing the point. 

[00:47:28] According to the report of the Gutenberg commission, Steinhauser owned fight club, predator, Desperado, as well as the video games returned to castle Wolf and Stein, Hitman. And half-life. 

[00:47:41] Randi : [00:47:41] Okay. I've played all of those video games. 

[00:47:43] Mary : [00:47:43] I mean, I guess, cause I own grand theft auto. I'm a fucking car thief. Right? I have Mario 64. I'm an Italian plumber getting the fucking running around peach. Is that what you're telling me? 

[00:47:55] These conversations do spark new laws for the protection of youth and a [00:48:00] tightening of gun laws.

[00:48:00] Randi : [00:48:00] What's the tightening of gun laws? 

[00:48:02] Mary : [00:48:02] Imagine that? 

[00:48:03] Germany, I already had a ton of restrictions around gun ownership, but Robert had been able to keep his guns because the German enforcement agency in charge of registration and paperwork was negligent. He had never registered his pistol and all of the documents for his shotgun were forged. And we already know he was not a good forger. They just didn't catch it. Like extreme negligence. 

[00:48:25] Randi : [00:48:25] Oh, no. 

[00:48:27] Mary : [00:48:27] The new restrictions put into place change the minimum age for purchasing large caliber weapons, other than shotguns for skeet shooting, which is clay targets that got fired in the air. The minimum age is now 21.

[00:48:39] And anyone buying a gun under the age of 25 has to be examined. Psychologically and medically the length of time, people can keep firearms and ammunition has been shortened. So no more stockpiling. And the paperwork procedures for renewal were completely overhauled pump action. Firearms were banned entirely after this [00:49:00] attack.

[00:49:00] It's approximated that 700 students were diagnosed with PTSD. I have PTSD. That shit is lifetime. 

[00:49:07] Randi : [00:49:07] Yeah. 

[00:49:08] Mary : [00:49:08] One year after the attack around 100 of them were still in treatment. 10 years later, there were six students reported to still be in therapy. Now, including four, who had declined to follow up program for extended therapy, these students were observed to have common symptoms of memory gaps and extreme avoidance behaviors.

[00:49:28] The local government did have an accident insurance fund, and that took over all childcare costs for the victims, including pension payments for the survivors in a total of about 5.6 million Euro, which is 6 million us dollars. A very controversial book about the attack is written by Inez Gabriel. It alleges that the police had made several mistakes in the case, alongside the relatives of the victims. He criticizes police on the speed of their response. They had arrived on the scene within the first [00:50:00] five minutes of the attack, but because they believed there was a second shooter, they slowly went through the school floor by floor. The book is called that's enough for today.

[00:50:10] Randi : [00:50:10] Oh. 

[00:50:11] Mary : [00:50:11] Again, very unlike the U S police training and laws are reformed in most federal States in Germany. Prior police on patrol had to wait for a special task force in order to deal with an active shooting. After these reforms, almost every cop in Germany gets special training and equipment to deal with a mass shooting from the moment it starts. 

[00:50:35] Randi : [00:50:35] Crap.

[00:50:36] Mary : [00:50:36] Reiner Heiss is widely praised for his actions, locking Robert in the classroom, ending the shootings later questions come up about his role in the attack from the public. The mayor comes out and says that they believe highest, but they understood why people were suspicious of him because the way he was speaking with the media was very blunt.

[00:50:57] German schools also develop a warning [00:51:00] system in case of an active shooting. They are now trained to use the PA system to broadcast the message. Mrs. Koma is coming. This is amok  spelled backwards, and this message is used in the Winnenden  school shooting to warn teachers.

[00:51:14] Let's talk about theEmsdetten  school shooting. Sebastian Bosse was born on April 29th, 1988. He went by Bastien. He's not the best student. And eventually he has to repeat a couple of grades. He also had a lot of social issues with his classmates and he's bullied pretty badly. His dad is a postman and they frequently go on hunting trips. Sebastian wears either cammo or all black, all the time. He's edgy. He listens to death metal and he loves guns. His diary entries around this time, talk about feeling restricted and wanting to be free. And he also said that he wanted to feel happiness again, which is another statement that I can identify with as someone who suffers with depression.

[00:51:59] Randi : [00:51:59] Oh yeah. 

[00:52:00] [00:51:59] Mary : [00:51:59] Sometimes it feels like it's never, you'll never feel good again, there's no light at the end of the tunnel. 

[00:52:05] Sometime in 2003, Sebastian starts posting on internet forums and he's asking for psychological help. He does not find it. He also starts posting a bunch of pictures of him posing with his weapons, including a submachine gun. The Sunday before the attack, he posts four photos showing himself and another person using explosives. The site was shut down quickly by the police, but not before these videos were uploaded to other sites on November 20th, 2006. Sebastian drove to the guest twister skull shool arriving around 9:20 AM.

[00:52:38] He's wearing a long black trench coat, a gas mask and carrying guns and bombs. He starts firing randomly as he approaches the school and a school janitor his head. When a female teacher comes running to help him. Sebastian throws a smoke bomb in her face. Police are notified of the shooting. About 10 minutes after the attack starts, Sebastian [00:53:00] enters the school firing at and hitting for students.

[00:53:03] He lights a bunch of smoke bombs to confuse the scene. Police arrive at 9:34 AM, but they struggled to enter the school at 9:58 AM. A special task force is able to breach an entry and they gain access. They find Sebastian's body at 10:36 AM. He had completed suicide. He had a bomb strapped to his body that he had detonated and he had also shot himself in the mouth.

[00:53:26] Randi : [00:53:26] Oh my God. 

[00:53:27] Mary : [00:53:27] Yeah. 

[00:53:28] Experts were brought in to make sure that some of the exclusives that hadn't detonated were diffused before they could move his body. They also found four other bombs throughout the school that had to be diffused 22. People were injured in this shooting with Sebastian being the only fatality. 

[00:53:44] Randi : [00:53:44] So they remove this stuff that says he's like posting stuff and ignoring the call for help. 

[00:53:50] Mary : [00:53:50] Yeah. 

[00:53:51] Randi : [00:53:51] Oh my God. 

[00:53:52] Mary : [00:53:52] So I'm like, where did you go for the psychological help? Because if it was like 4Chan  or another one of those edge Lord websites where [00:54:00] that's not, nobody's going to help you there. 

[00:54:02] Randi : [00:54:02] No. 

[00:54:03] Mary : [00:54:03] The school janitor and four students suffered gunshot wounds. The female teacher who was hit by the smoke bomb and her face was injured. And 16 cops developed respiratory issues from the smoke inhalation. 

[00:54:15] Randi : [00:54:15] Oh my God. 

[00:54:16] Mary : [00:54:16] Another 15 students were treated for shock. 

[00:54:19] Randi : [00:54:19] Oh, no. 

[00:54:21] Mary : [00:54:21] Cops found that Sebastian had attacked the school with a Burgo .22 bolt action air rifle, an Ardesa percussion rifle, , a pistol, and an Ardesa Patriot caplock pistol.

[00:54:32] The barrels and stocks for the rifles were both sawn off. Three smoke bombs, and a knife were found on his body. 10 more smoke bombs and another incendiary bomb was in his back pack.

[00:54:43]Randi : [00:54:43] Oh my God. 

[00:54:45] Mary : [00:54:45] In his room at his parents' house, they find a gas gun, an air rifle, an airsoft weapon, and a bunch of dangerous chemicals. Investigating further, cops find that the percussion rifle had been bought online. There were three online [00:55:00] auctions during the two months leading up to the attack and all three auctions had sold weapons. These auctions are supposed to be regulated to people over 18, but no investigation is done. 

[00:55:10] Randi : [00:55:10] Oh boy. 

[00:55:11] Mary : [00:55:11] A 24 year old male relative of Sebastian had bought him the bolt action rifle.

[00:55:17] He traded it with Sebastian for an airsoft gun. He had no idea that Sebastian was planning this attack. 

[00:55:23] Having to live with that must be awful. Someone you love has manipulated you in order to be able to go kill people. 

[00:55:32] Randi : [00:55:32] Yeah. 

[00:55:33] Mary : [00:55:33] Because that was obviously his goal. When the cops look at Sebastian's diary, it's obvious that he has been meticulously planning the details of this attack. They also discover that Sebastian had previously gone to an outdoor event with a gun on him and had been drinking. The police  seize the gas gun from him. And even though he didn't have a license for the gun legally, he was still able to hold it in [00:56:00] public. He also was already doing court for illegal possession of aWalther P38  which is a pistol, before the attack.

[00:56:07] Sebastian had also posted on his website, including a video message that he recorded in his parents' living room. He said that he hated people and had been taught to just be a loser. When he was at school. He also makes a text post of his suicide note. And this note says. I had to learn in the 18 years of my life. That one can only be happy when you blend in adapt to society. But I couldn't, and I did not want to, I am free. No person shall engage in my life. And if he does, he has to face the consequences. No politician has the right to legislate, which prohibits me things. No cop has the right to take away my gun. And certainly not. While he's wearing one at his bell, I hate you in the way you are. You all got to die. Since I was six, you've all been taking the piss out of me and now you're going to pay. Finally, I want to apologize for all this, to the people who mean something to me or were ever good to me, I'm gone.

[00:56:58] Randi : [00:56:58] Wow. 

[00:56:59] Mary : [00:56:59] He [00:57:00] wanted help. And he did put some toes in the water about that. 

[00:57:04] Randi : [00:57:04] Yeah. 

[00:57:05] Mary : [00:57:05] But this is not the actions of a person who wants help. 

[00:57:09] Randi : [00:57:09] No. 

[00:57:10] Mary : [00:57:10] This much planning and preparation and building fucking bombs and smoke bombs. Like that's not. 

[00:57:17] Randi : [00:57:17] Oh man. 

[00:57:19] Mary : [00:57:19] Just terrible. 

[00:57:21] Before I mentioned the Winnenden  school shooting, and that's the next case.

[00:57:25] Tim Kretschmer was born on July 26, 2009. Leutenbach is a municipality in the Rems-Murr district, in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. It is located 15 kilometers East of Ludwigsburg and 20 kilometers Northeast of Stuttgart. He was a very poor student and he barely graduated from the AlbertvilleRealschule.  Because of his grades he was not going to be able to get an apprenticeship. After completing a Realschule, good students are allowed to attend a professional gymnasium or a general education gymnasium.

[00:57:58] They can also [00:58:00] attend a Berufsschule  or do an apprenticeship. Tim ended up attending a commercial high school called Donner + Kern in Waiblingen  to prepare for an apprenticeship. 

[00:58:09] A few different people said that Tim showed clear signs of depression. One friend called him a lonely and frustrated person who felt rejected by society. Another student interviewed anonymously said that Tim had been withdrawn and quiet always, but was becoming even more stuff leading up to the attack. 

[00:58:27] Tim was great at tennis and he had actually wanted to go pro at some point, he played at a local sports club between 2000 and 2003 with a coach named Marko Habijanec. Marko says that Tim was a little spoiled and Tim's mom often just gave in and did whatever he wanted. Tim was also a very sore loser. He would have full-blown temper tantrums when he lost a match and he would go full on John McEnroe and throw his racket around and just cause a huge fit. 

[00:58:57] Randi : [00:58:57] Oh my word. 

[00:58:58] Mary : [00:58:58] Tim believes that he's better than everyone [00:59:00] around him and would openly shit  talk his teammates. Having had teammates who did this when I played softball and soccer, fuck you so hard. 

[00:59:08] Finally , Marko brings this up to Tim's mom as a huge concern and to nobody's surprise, she says, well, Tim is the best. Of course, he's going to talk shit. 

[00:59:17] Randi : [00:59:17] Oh honey.

[00:59:18]Mary : [00:59:18] Enabler. 

[00:59:19] Randi : [00:59:19] Oh honey. 

[00:59:20] Mary : [00:59:20] He's very fond of airsoft guns. And he likes to shoot his airsoft guns behind the house in the forest. And also in the basement of his mom's house. Tim is an active gamer and he likes to play Counterstrike, which is a first person shooter. This brings the conversation about violent video games and movies into the media. Again, with a lot of commentators pointing out that violent games can be a symptom, but are definitely not a cause of violence.

[00:59:45] The day of the attack, tinplate far cry too, which is another shooting game. His username was JawsPredator1. I was asking Mike, my husband, about these games, because I didn't feel like Googling. 

[00:59:59] Randi : [00:59:59] Yeah. 

[01:00:00] [01:00:00] Mary : [01:00:00] And I am taking the notes and I say, Hey, you want to know this guy's username? And I tell it to him, the eye roll was so immediate and so hard. He just had to leave the room. 

[01:00:14] Tim used MyVideo.De , which was a German video hosting site, as well as some other websites that were popular in Germany. At the time he had regularly played poker with some classmates in a nearby Cafe Tunix  after school. After the attack, German police searched his computer and find that Tim is interested in BDSM, specifically scenes where a man is bound and humiliated by women.

[01:00:39] I understand why this got reported. Like, so salaciously , but being interested in bondage and having kinks is not a bad thing. And this really made me feel some type of way about the way that they were talking about it. Like lets not sex shame people. BDSM these days is really not a big deal in the grand scheme of [01:01:00] things. It's happening way more than you realize, okay. If you're vanilla and you think nobody ever does that, it's happening a lot more than you think. 

[01:01:06] Randi : [01:01:06] Oh, yeah. 

[01:01:06] Mary : [01:01:06] Tim has no criminal history, but he had been treated at wizened Hoff, psychiatric clinic near the town of Heilbronn in 2008, he spent a lot of time in and out of outpatient programs at the clinic. He is later admitted for an inpatient program. He was discharged and was supposed to complete another outpatient program, but he did not. The staff reports that Tim was diagnosed with clinical depression. Tim's family denies this and says that Tim never received any psychiatric help, ever records from the investigation showed that Tim did meet with a therapist at least five times to discuss his growing anger and violent urges.

[01:01:43] So y'all being in denial, killed people. 

[01:01:46] Randi : [01:01:46] Yeah.

[01:01:48] And scarred people for life, literally and emotionally. 

[01:01:51] Yeah.

[01:01:52]Mary : [01:01:52] Pieces of shit. 

[01:01:53] The  therapists did tell Tim's parents about this. And Tim had also written them a letter in the weeks right [01:02:00] before the shooting, telling them that he was suffering and could not go on. So clearly after his little feeble attempts, he got serious. It was trying to tell his parents that he knew something was wrong and just got ignored. 

[01:02:12] Randi : [01:02:12] We can't break the illusion. 

[01:02:13] Mary : [01:02:13] This doesn't fit my narrative. I'm sorry. You're going to have to shut up and deal with this. 

[01:02:18] Around 9:30 AM. On March 12th, Tim enters the Albertville-Realschule. He has a 9mm Beretta 92fs, which is a semi-automatic pistol. He had taken this gun from his parents' bedroom. He started on the first floor, but quickly ran upstairs to the second floor where there were two classrooms and a chemistry lab. He entered the first classroom and shot five students in the head at close range. He enters the second classroom and shoots more students two die immediately, and nine more are wounded. Two of these nine students die on their way to the hospital. Tim exits the room to reload his gun, and a teacher manages to lock it behind him. He tries to shoot the lock off. And when that failed, he enters the chemistry [01:03:00] lab.

[01:03:00] He shoots the teacher inside and students start jumping out of the windows to try to escape in total. During this wave of the attack, he fired 60 rounds and killed nine students and one female teacher. 

[01:03:12] Randi : [01:03:12] Oh my God. 

[01:03:13] Mary : [01:03:13] The school headmaster gets on the PA and broadcast the message that Mrs. Koma  is coming. The teachers realize what's going on and they lock all the classroom doors. A student had managed to call the police at 9:33 AM and they responded to the school very quickly. Three officers arrived by 9:35 AM. They entered the school and Tim shoots at them. He hits two female teachers as he runs away from the school and they both die from their gunshot wounds. In total at the school, he killed 12 people before running away. Cop find more unused ammunition in the school meaning that he had planned to cause even more damage. As Tim runs, he comes across a man who worked as a gardener in a nearby psychiatric hospital in the park. He kills the 56 year old man and carjacks a man in a first-generation [01:04:00] Volkswagen sharan minivan at a car park in Winnenden. The news starts broadcasting warnings, not to pick up any hitchhikers, but he's already carjacked someone. So he's already on the move. 

[01:04:10] Randi : [01:04:10] Yeah. 

[01:04:11] Mary : [01:04:11] Tim Kretschmer orders, the driver  Igor Wolf to drive towards Wendlingen, which is 40 kilometres  or 25 miles from Winnenden. They drive through a bunch of suburbs and use the Autobahn, which is one of two words that I knew how to say.

[01:04:29] They drive to B14. Then drove onto the B27  dual carriageway before eventually getting on the B313 to Nürtingen.  Igor asked Tim why he's doing this. Tim says for fun, because it's fun. 

[01:04:45] Tim, what the fuck. The feeling of cold water dumped on you that had to have happened when Tim said that. 

[01:04:52] Randi : [01:04:52] Right?

[01:04:53] Mary : [01:04:53] It's bad enough that I got carjacked, but now I find out that this dude has no motive. There's no rhyme or reason. It's [01:05:00] just like, haha, we're going to take a joy ride,

[01:05:02] Tim then goes on to outline his plans while reloading his pistols. He asks Igor. If he thinks they'll find another school, Igor leaves his body for a moment. I'm sure. And then quick, quick, like a bunny changes the topic.

[01:05:16] To be a fly on the wall of this car while this conversation is happening. 

[01:05:20] Randi : [01:05:20] Right.

[01:05:21]Mary : [01:05:21] I would fully leave my body.

[01:05:24]Randi : [01:05:24] I Oh my God. 

[01:05:26] Mary : [01:05:26] Loading guns too. Also. I don't know this for sure. But from what I know, the Autobahn  is like, you drive very fast. German listeners, Dominik, someone email me, let me know if this is true. My idea as a possibly ignorant American was you can go super duper fast. 

[01:05:46] Randi : [01:05:46] It's like, isn't there like no permanent speed limit on the Autobahn. 

[01:05:49] Mary : [01:05:49] It's what I was thinking that there's no speed limit because I know people like to go in like sports cars there and just like really open up the throttle as much as they [01:06:00] can.

[01:06:00] I don't know, driving, I assume that's accurate. I don't drive. 

[01:06:04] Right before they get to the A8 junction of the Autobahn, Igor steers the car into a grassy patch and jumps out of the car when he sees a police patrol car nearby. So he's like, this is my chance. 

[01:06:18] Randi : [01:06:18] Byeeeee

[01:06:18] Mary : [01:06:18] Byeee, gotta go! 

[01:06:19] Tim also jumps out of the car and runs into the industrial area, nearby finding a Volkswagen car showroom. He walks in the front door and starts threatening the salespeople, working the floor. He wants keys to a car, right fucking now. 

[01:06:34] Tim gets distracted and this salesperson is able to escape. Tim then shoots another sales person and a customer who were on the floor. He fires 13 bullets at them while he's reloading another salesperson and a visitor run out the back door. Tim leaves the dealership at 1230 and shoots a car driving by, but the driver is not hit. Cops started to arrive and there was a [01:07:00] fire fight. Boondock saints. If you don't get my reference. Officer takes eight shots at Tim and hits him once in each leg. 

[01:07:09] Imagine that you could subdue someone and not have to just murder them. You could actually just deescalate the situation, take them down. 

[01:07:17] Randi : [01:07:17] Right. Make sure they can't leave. 

[01:07:19] Mary : [01:07:19] So interesting. 

[01:07:20] Unfortunately, Tim is still able to run back into the dealership showroom and fire's 12 more shots at the police surrounding the building. 

[01:07:29] Randi : [01:07:29] Oh yeah. Dudes just gotta be juiced with adrenaline at this point, right?

[01:07:32] Mary : [01:07:32] Like you're so deep in this thing that you've been planning  for such a long time. You've committed you like this is it. I'm doing this. I'm riding it until the wheels come off.

[01:07:41]Randi : [01:07:41] Oh my God. 

[01:07:42] Mary : [01:07:42] He runs out the back of the dealership and across a courtyard to a business complex, nearby shooting, an injuring two cops in an unmarked police car. Tim continues to fire. It will spraying bullets at nearby buildings and people. One employee of one of these [01:08:00] businesses was attempting to lock the door. As Tim ran out of bullets, Tim reloads his pistol and complete suicide by shooting himself in the head and dozens and dozens of witnesses had to watch the trauma right there is footage available online of the last few seconds of this shootout that someone took on their cell phone camera.

[01:08:23] I did not look, I cannot tell you where that is. Google at your own risk. If you want to see it. 

[01:08:29] The investigation after the shooting finds that in total, Tim fired 112 rounds. They searched the Kretschmer  family home around 11:00 AM. Tim's dad was a member of a local marksman club and legally owned 15 guns. They find one Beretta 9mm  is missing. Several hundred rounds of ammo are gone. 14 of the guns had been secured in a gun safe in the house, but the Beretta had been kept out in the bedroom. Five days after the shooting, prosecutors start the process to [01:09:00] charge Tim's dad with negligent homicide due to his failure to secure the Beretta, which is a crime in Germany under the current gun laws there. Police confiscate the 14 remaining guns and Tim's father made a public announcement that he would be relinquishing his gun ownership, authorization of his own volition. So he's voluntarily going to give up his license. 

[01:09:21] In November, 2009, Tim's father was indicted on charges of negligent homicide bodily injury caused by negligence and violation of weapons laws, February 10th, 2011. The state court in Stuttgart finds Tim's father guilty of 15 charges of involuntary manslaughter and negligent abandonment of a weapon. Tim's dad gets a suspended sentence of one year and nine months. He appeals the verdict and the appeals court gives him a suspended sentence of one year and six months in 2013 in the aftermath of the shootings German president Horst Köhler  said he was appalled and saddened. He and his wife extended condolences to the [01:10:00] victims, as well as all of their family and friends. Chancellor Angela Merkel described the attack as incomprehensible. She's quoted saying it is unimaginable that in just seconds, pupils and teachers were killed. It is an appalling crime. This is a day of mourning for the whole of Germany.

[01:10:17] The European parliament held a minute of silence to honor the dead and economical church service was held and went and done the evening of the shooting with Protestant Catholic and Muslim clerics all officiating. All German flags were flown on half staff until March 13th in memory of the victims.

[01:10:35] Politicians began calling for more legal consequences in the days after the attack. Many are advocating for total prohibition of any shooting video game. They also want better monitoring of gun club members, a directive to have all ammunition kept with the police and to provision, to have gun club members have to keep their guns at the clubhouse, which I assume is like what we would call the range. Other [01:11:00] politicians push back on this and describe these efforts as placebos. They don't believe that these address the issues effectively, which they don't. 

[01:11:08] The family of five victims wrote an open letter to chancellor, Angela Merkel, president Horst Köhler, and Baden-Württemberg Minister President Günther Oettinger. They want to see less violence on TV, prohibition of violent video games, prohibition of youth, access to guns at gun clubs and changes made in the reporting of these types of attacks to stop highlighting the person responsible. They hope to lessen the chance of copy cats, looking for infamy. Germany, announces plans to ban games like paint ball because they trivialize and encourage violence.

[01:11:41] The government does pass legislation in May, 2009 that improves handgun and security measures. It establishes an electronic nationwide weapons registry and increases age limitations for large caliber weapons. There will also now be random inspections in homes of gun owners to make sure that all the storage [01:12:00] requirements are being met. They expect everyone to switch over to biometric security systems. Like those should be introduced as soon as it is feasible. 

[01:12:08] Randi : [01:12:08] Yeah. 

[01:12:09] Mary : [01:12:09] The legislature does not ban games like paint ball does not limit the total number of guns and owner can have, and does not pass any requirements to store guns at shooting clubs or restrict ammunition storage in homes. You hit some of the stuff didn't really hit some of the stuff.  

[01:12:25] Randi : [01:12:25] Almost got it. 

[01:12:26] Mary : [01:12:26] Yeah. Did not stick the landing on that one. 

[01:12:29] This is Mike's deal with me. When we get a gun. If we ever get a gun, I would have to keep it in a fingerprint safe next to my side of the bed. It makes sense.

[01:12:39] In all Tim Kretschmer  killed 15 people. They are. Chantal Schill, who was 15. Jana Natascha Schober,  who was 15. Selena Marx, 15.Stefanie Tanja Kleisch, 16. Kristina  Strobel, 16. Viktorija Minasenko, 16. Nicole Elisabeth Nalepa, [01:13:00] 16. Jacqueline Hahn, 16. Ibrahim Halilaj, 17. Sabrina Schüle,24. Nina Denise Mayer, 24. Michaela Köhler, 26. Those three were all teachers assistants at the school. They were in training. Franz Josef Just, who was 56. That's the man that worked at the psychiatric hospital.Denis Puljic, 36, worked in the car dealership. And Sigurt Peter Gustav Wilk  was 46. He also worked at the car dealership. 

[01:13:30]

[01:13:30] Okay, we're on the last one. And then we can just like unpack all of this because, Oh my God.

[01:13:35] Randi : [01:13:35] Right? 

[01:13:36] Mary : [01:13:36] The Ansbach  school attack happened on September 17th, 2009. So this is only four months after the shootings at Winnenden. The Gymnasium Carolinum, a secondary school in Ansbach is in Bavaria. Around 40,000 people live there. This attacker is known only as Georg R. Due to the new laws around how media can report these cases. Around [01:14:00] 8:30, Georg entered the school with two knives and ax and three Molotov cocktails. He threw one of the Molotov cocktails into an 11th grade classroom. As a student runs out of the classroom, he attacks them with the axe. He throws another Molotov cocktail into the ninth grade classroom across the hall. The student who was attacked with the Axe sustained a life-threatening concussion. Another student incurred severe burns and 11 other students, as well as two teachers were lightly injured. At 8:35, a student is able to contact the police. This student had experience  as a volunteer firefighter and started trying to put the fire out while waiting for the police and fire department.

[01:14:37] During all this George found a bathroom and locked himself inside the stall. Police arrive. And he exited the stall, waving a knife at the cops, police fire three shots at him. They had him in the arm, stomach and chest. He is severely injured and they take him into custody. George was 18 years old. He was a student at the school. He had been undergoing psychotherapy for some time before the attacks he'd been [01:15:00] planning for months and had actually put together his well originally he had picked the date for the attack to be the start of June, but he had issues making the Molotov cocktails. So he had to put off the attack by a day.

[01:15:12] They also find that he felt that he was unfairly treated, disrespected and excluded. He wrote about being worried that he might not pass the entrance exams for university and wished that he had a girlfriend. He planned to be killed in the attack because he did not want to be alive anyway, but he wanted to kill as many teachers and stunts as possible before he died. 

[01:15:33] You piece of scum. 

[01:15:36] No firearms, violent video games or movies are found in  Georg's home. This changes the discussion in the public about the cause of the attacks being bullying rather than gun laws or video games. Georg's 19 at the start of the trial on April 22nd, 2010, he is charged with 47 counts of attempted murder, two counts of attempted manslaughter, 13 counts of grievous bodily [01:16:00] harm and attempted first degree arson. The trial is not open to the public and on April 29th, Georg is found guilty of the charges and sentenced to nine years in juvenile detention. He was further ordered by juvenile court to be admitted to a psychiatric clinic, the police union advocated for an early warning system to be put in place in schools to catch this kind of thing and make sure nothing's slipping through the cracks. Many wanted to increase the number of school psychologists in place. The German association of cities and towns came out in favor of an advisory council on youth violence. This advisory council on youth violence would develop plans for initiatives, such as using the internet for anti-violence training and increasing security in public spaces.

[01:16:42] In addition, local authorities supported greater integration among educational judicial and youth welfare departments, as well as the safety partnership between police municipalities schools and sports associations. The 18 year old student who had placed the emergency call and attempted to put out the [01:17:00] fires was nominated by a classmate for the national X Y prize for civil courage.

[01:17:05] Randi : [01:17:05] Oh. 

[01:17:06] Mary : [01:17:06] Yeah, that is all of the cases   all eight of these German mass school shootings. 

[01:17:14] Randi : [01:17:14] Oh my gosh. 

[01:17:15] Mary : [01:17:15] Yeah, that was a lot. 

[01:17:18] Randi : [01:17:18] That was a lot.

[01:17:19]Mary : [01:17:19] The common themes of the persecution complex and wanting to be a teacher was really eerie for me. 

[01:17:28] Randi : [01:17:28] Yeah. 

[01:17:29] Mary : [01:17:29] Like how do you go from wanting to work with kids to wanting to kill kids?

[01:17:34] Randi : [01:17:34] It doesn't add up. 

[01:17:36] Mary : [01:17:36] You need to consider a different profession, right? 

[01:17:39] Randi : [01:17:39] Preferably one without kids. Yeah. 

[01:17:41] Mary : [01:17:41] Yeah. 

[01:17:43] The thing that was really promising to me was seeing that these laws were changing and evolving over time. Like being able to see that in each case was pretty. 

[01:17:51] Randi : [01:17:51] Yeah. 

[01:17:53] Mary : [01:17:53] Whereas in this country and the States, we can't even have a conversation about that, right without it [01:18:00] becoming this big political politicized issue. And it's really about children dying. And I love guns, but I firmly believe that there needs to be more processes in place. 

[01:18:10] Randi : [01:18:10] Yeah, no. Cause like I've been to shooting ranges. I love shooting guns. It's fun, but like limits. 

[01:18:16] Mary : [01:18:16] And shooting guns at a range at like a paper target or shooting clay or hunting if you're gonna eat and use the animal responsibly, those things are all fine to me. I don't have a problem with any of those things, but when you switch and you're talking about shooting people a little bit different.

[01:18:34]Randi : [01:18:34] Just a little bit. 

[01:18:35] Mary : [01:18:35] Yeah. 

[01:18:37] Randi : [01:18:37] Oh my God. 

[01:18:39] Mary : [01:18:39] You write manifestos. You got to take a pause and go get help. Let's just draw that line in the sand right now. 

[01:18:45] Randi : [01:18:45] Right?

[01:18:45] Mary : [01:18:45] Please play the manifesto down, put, put your typewriter or your keyboard or whatever you're using your pen and paper. Put it down, put it down, walk away. Let's take a break from that. Let's go get some help. 

[01:18:58] Randi : [01:18:58] Not 4chan. 

[01:18:58] Mary : [01:18:58] why do [01:19:00] we feel the need the manifesto let's get off /B, let's move forward with our lives. 

[01:19:04] Randi : [01:19:04] Right?

[01:19:05]Mary : [01:19:05] As someone who's spent a lot of time on B, I get it. You become very desensitized to stuff, but I never even got close to becoming desensitized to the thought of like murder or hurting other people or abusing other people in any way that didn't, you know, that's didn't come for me. Eventually, I just was like, this makes me feel gross. And I feel like potentially it might be giving my soul cancer and I need to leave. And I need to just getoff 4chan totally. 

[01:19:31] Randi : [01:19:31] Yeah, that was one that I can never get into. It was too gross. 

[01:19:36] Mary : [01:19:36] It's gross. It's really grass. 

[01:19:39] Thank you so much for coming on this ride with me.

[01:19:42] Randi : [01:19:42] Yes, it was fun. Thank you. 

[01:19:44] Mary : [01:19:44] And trying to go out on a high note, especially this case, these case, these eight cases, my God, this is probably one of the heavier topics so far, I would say.

[01:19:54]Randi : [01:19:54] It was interesting. Like, I, I enjoyed it. 

[01:19:57] Mary : [01:19:57] as much as you can enjoy hearing [01:20:00] about this. 

[01:20:00] Randi : [01:20:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:20:02]Mary : [01:20:02] Everybody who listens, I think knows by this point that it's not about relishing, what happened. It's just really about going through the story and reacting to these horrible people.

[01:20:12]Randi : [01:20:12] Yeah.

[01:20:13]Mary : [01:20:13] Do you have something that's made you happy like today? 

[01:20:17] Randi : [01:20:17] The only thing good or interesting that's happened is I got accepted into a bachelor's program for contracts and acquisition. 

[01:20:23] Mary : [01:20:23] So congratulations. 

[01:20:24] Randi : [01:20:24] Yeah. We're moving into a different form of law because the criminal was too too much.

[01:20:31] Mary : [01:20:31] Makes sense. I feel like that would be a little overwhelming for me too. 

[01:20:34] Randi : [01:20:34] It was very overwhelming. It was like, Oh, there's issues here. We're not going to work on those. Okay. 

[01:20:40] Mary : [01:20:40] This is like a good level for me of being involved in the criminal justice system. I think just on the outside, critiquing is a good spot for me.

[01:20:48] Randi : [01:20:48] Oh yeah. Yeah. 

[01:20:51] Mary : [01:20:51] Couple of things have made me really happy. Recently, one is Lil NAS, X Montero. Call me by your name. I have been playing it so [01:21:00] much. I'm so into it. I actually made a TikTok  with like, it's like a face in a hole type of thing. Uh, and so it's my face, like crying, laughing inside a dinosaur costume dancing to call me by your name. It just makes me laugh so much. And me and my husband have watched it like four or five times and we just laugh and laugh every time it might be the best TikTok I've ever made.

[01:21:26]Randi : [01:21:26] Oh, my God. That's amazing. 

[01:21:27] Mary : [01:21:27] And the other thing is that I have been literally just like shooting my shot in terms of trying to get guests on the show. So I have a couple of people lined up. Who've agreed to come on that I'm really excited about people from TikTok  or people from social media. I'm very excited to have some new people on and just keep it going. Keep the pod goin'.

[01:21:46] Randi : [01:21:46] Podcast is amazing. I always have it running in the background. 

[01:21:49] So I appreciate that.

[01:21:50] Mary : [01:21:50] Let's see, I haven't done a stream update for awhile unless you've been on the Instagram. So I'll go ahead and give one of those right now. As of the time that [01:22:00] we are recording, we are at 4,097 downloads, which blows my mind. 

[01:22:06] Randi : [01:22:06] That's fantastic. 

[01:22:07] Mary : [01:22:07] We have been streamed in 710 cities, total and 61 countries or territories.

[01:22:15] Randi : [01:22:15] Holy shit.

[01:22:15]Mary : [01:22:15] I know! International people. Thank you so much. I'm really glad you're enjoying it. If you want to hear a case from your country, please send me an email or give me a suggestion and we'll make it happen. You can also find us on Patrion. Thanks so much to our patrons, Kat, Dana, Ashlynn, Caitlyn , and Meredith. I appreciate you so much. There will be exclusive content on the Patrion that they're going to get episodes that are just for them. There'll be available at every level. So if you're interested, go ahead and check us out on Patreon.com/MonstersWalk  and thanks so much for tuning in. I hope to see you next week.

[01:22:58] If you liked the [01:23:00] podcast, I would love if you would go ahead and leave me a five star rating and a review on Apple podcast. Please check us out on Instagram at monsters. Walk with us all one word and I'd love. If you could send us an email and tell me where you're listening from, maybe suggest a case, that email address is Hidden.Monsters.Walk@gmail.com