Pybites Podcast

#187: Beyond the resume - how to stand out in the competitive world of tech

• Julian Sequeira & Bob Belderbos • Episode 187

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The tech job market has become increasingly challenging with ongoing layoffs and strong competition for available positions. How can developers stand out when everyone seems to have the same credentials? 

This episode tackles the essential strategies needed to navigate this difficult landscape. We discuss how imperfect positions can still offer growth, and how enthusiasm, coupled with demonstrated skill, can help employers pick you as a candidate who will bring true value to their organisation.

Join our community at pybites.circle.so to continue the conversation, expand your network, and access more resources to advance your Python career journey!

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Carlton Gibson's article:  https://buttondown.com/carlton/archive/if-i-were-starting-out-now/

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Bob:

Because there's a bit of a catch-22,. Right, you want to get the job, but you don't get the job, so you miss the experience. Right, but that's, yeah, it's almost like don't wait for that. Right, go reach out, because there's so much work you can do. Right, you can go in any open-source project and start contributing. Right, you can network with anybody.

Julian:

The world is your oyster, right, Hello and welcome to the PyBytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira.

Bob:

And I am Bob Veldables. If you're looking to improve your Python, your career and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. Hello and welcome back everybody to the PyBytes podcast. This is Bob I'm here with. Let's get started.

Julian:

Too many things. That's where a good project manager comes in handy.

Bob:

It's also very healthy for our mindset. Right there's a lot going on, and a lot of insecurity, but we just are stoic about it and focus on what we can control right.

Julian:

Keeping us busy. I love it, yeah. So, look, and that means this episode needs to be quick because we have things to do as well as well. So, look, let's dive straight. In this week, everyone we are going to be talking about the job hunt, because right now, tech kind of sucks. It's very, very difficult to find jobs in tech. People are struggling left, right and center. There are layoffs happening, continued layoffs happening, and I was wrapped up in that last year. There's just so many things happening in this scene that makes the tech industry extremely volatile, and that includes for those of us who are developers and Python developers. So we read a very interesting article today, but it inspired us to maybe provide some tips and things that you should be keeping in mind, especially if you're on that job hunt right now. So, bob, was that a good summary? Do you want to kick it off? What?

Bob:

do you think? Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, so the article is on Stack Report if I were starting out now, dot dot dot by Carlton Gibson, pretty well-known in the general space. So, yeah, we stumbled upon that today and read it and there's some good advice and tips in there and, yeah, so we can go through that and add our own opinions to that you want to kick it off.

Julian:

Okay, so I think and we're not going sequentially through this article, right, this is just me, from thoughts I had as I read it. So the first thing is that what you need to do is you have to remember that you are not the only one with credentials. Right, and I think we know this intrinsically, but it's good to call it out there are so many people applying for the jobs that we're applying for, that you're all looking for at the moment, and they have the same credentials as you. They may have done computer science. They may have the same university degree that you're all looking for at the moment and they have the same credentials as you. They may have done computer science. They may have the same university degree that you have. So, if that's the case, what sets you apart from them? Right? What leg up did you have by pursuing that degree and completing it? What leg up over the other people that did the exact same thing do you have?

Julian:

Right, and this isn't to spark the debate around what's better work experience versus going to university, versus not going to university at all, and so on and so forth right, what the article discusses and what inspired me and what really hit me is that when push comes to shove and you're applying for a job, we know that they're going to pick the best person for the job, and if you're in a sea of people with the same degree and same formal credentials, it's going to be the person that has that one little thing more than the rest that gets the job, or at least gets the interview, gets considered more than everyone else. And so this aligns very heavily with what Bob and I have been preaching, preaching over the past I don't know five years. Right, that you need to build a portfolio, that you need to build things. So, if you don't have the job experience of working in a Python role, but you have done some sort of study, how are you going to be better than the people who have also done the same study and also don't have experience? You're going to build something. Right, you have to have something to show your skills. So I'll stop there, because I'll just take over the whole segment.

Julian:

So, bob, that was my take. I've got something to show your skills. So I'll stop there because I'll just take over the whole segment. So, bob, that was, that was my take. I've got something to add to that, but you go next. What did you have?

Bob:

yeah, kind of similar to that. So in this time where you might not even get a call or you'll be filtered out just by filters, recruitment filters um, this comes down to really showing that you have the skills. So that means not only building something, but building something doing something complex, right? So either start your own projects, do something in the open source space, but do something that's fairly complex and that you can really show that you have the skillset. But with that also comes networking, right, they're incredibly talented engineers, and then you go to LinkedIn and they, they're incredibly talented engineers, and then you go to LinkedIn and they hardly ever post or they don't have it updated with their stuff. So I think there is a lot you can control.

Bob:

But, yeah, of course it's a lot of hard work, right? But that hard work is going to put in anyway when you're endlessly apply for jobs, right? So, yeah, a lot of the effort you can actually put into building and becoming better, becoming so good that they cannot ignore you, right? Because there's a bit of a catch-22, right, you, you, you want to get the job, but you don't get the job, so you miss the, the experience, right? But, um, that's, yeah, it's almost like, don't wait for that. Right, go, go, reach out and and try to, because there's so much work you can do. Right, you can go in any open source project and start contributing. Right, you can network with anybody. Like the world is your oyster. Right, like that's how we met um, so nobody really stopping you. Right, um, just, I think, getting into that, you know, getting out of your comfort zone and beat that imposter syndrome to to come with us, you know.

Julian:

Yeah, no, I love it. And this leads actually perfectly into the next point that I wanted to add to this is that what I really liked is that there's this concept of not every job is perfect. Right, there are not every job that you apply for and that you go for as a developer is going to be perfect in the dream position, and actually it did make me think is there really such thing as the perfect job, as a dream position, that's perfect at every level? And probably not. So there is a line in the sand Don't take on a job that you know is going to be toxic, toxic work environments. That's a no-go. If you ever find yourself in a position like that, just get out. It's as simple as that, right, leave.

Julian:

But there are roles that may not be perfect, right? So think about some development roles. Right, you will be coding, and that's fantastic, but you also might have to be on call. You might have to be on a support roster to potentially take emergencies overnight, and that might happen every once a month or once every three weeks or whatever the rotation is. So that's an imperfect position, right, because not everyone wants to be doing on-call work. Not everyone can. It's not great when you have kids and things like that, but you get to code right, because not everyone wants to be doing on-call work. Not everyone can. It's not great when you have kids and things like that, but you get to code right. So that's an imperfect position that you should still be considering. Don't throw it away just because of that imperfection. Right, work around it.

Julian:

And, to add to that, as long as the job provides some sort of growth, as long as you're learning every day, you're building your skills, you're getting somewhere. That's still something to apply for. That counts a lot in your professional development and your growth. You need to make sure that you're growing in the job. So don't limit yourself to the job set.

Julian:

Tick every single box and this has to be perfect for me to go for it. Just try and apply for adjacent kinds of roles and we mentioned this on a previous podcast episode with CJ and how he managed to find this imperfect job. That is actually incredible for him and he's super happy, and I've checked in with him since and he's very happy in the job and he's excited. But on paper it didn't tick every box right away. It wasn't a dedicated 100 python job, but it's still allowed for growth. So I think people need to remember that not every job is going to be perfect and you probably won't find the perfect job. So just keep looking and even when things look a little bit scrappy, it's worth having a look and diving into as well yeah, they're like stepping stones, right exactly so I mean, I've told this story many times with my support engineer um experience, um, I wasn't a coder.

Bob:

I did like help desk hardware diagnostic work. I didn't particularly like it right most of the time, but I did acquire that domain knowledge and then, when it was time to write tools, I could combine a domain knowledge with my the coding skills I was learning right.

Bob:

So yeah, I think to add to that I'll just keep in mind right like programming or development, work is as much about requirement gathering and knowing your domain as well as you know developer skills and syntax. So even if you're in a non-optimal job, you're learning about a field right. So then you can grow into a coder role and again then half of the job is actually there you accomplish because you know a domain, because you're not going to code in a silo, right, it's always about something. So if you know an industry very well, that's maybe half of the journey done, right, yeah.

Julian:

Man. That's the next point that we want to make as well is that don't limit yourself to big tech. You know everyone's going I need to be at a fang company and things like that. So many developer jobs outside of big tech, and if you have this domain knowledge that Bob's talking about in other industries, it perfectly positions you to land roles in companies that are just you wouldn't even think about, right? So there are plenty of jobs out there that provide opportunities, like entry level automation People are talking AI right now. So if you build something on the outside with experience in LLMs and so on and so forth, you can really position yourself well for developer kinds of roles that are outside of Facebook, amazon, all that sort of stuff, right? Or?

Bob:

start building on the site, right? You did that for years. You still do your coding, do your day job and start building on the side, and then you turn it. Maybe it becomes something more right so? Or think about freelancing or just building something for somebody, right Again, might not be full-time, but you might get paid for it. There's a lot of demands to make apps, and especially AI type apps like this, right so?

Julian:

yeah.

Bob:

What else would you add anything else? Uh, I think that we covered this one pretty well with the previous one, so maybe go to the next one okay, what's next?

Julian:

what's next you go with this one tools. Yeah, yeah, you do that.

Bob:

We've discussed this also, uh, a lot like one or two episodes back, but yeah, ai is here it bears repeating yeah, ai is here, it's not going to go away. Who's going to embrace it and use it? They will become invaluable and although programmers won't get replaced entirely at least not right now people that embrace those tools are going to be 10x more valuable or faster, or whatever, I mean five coders apart, but still, right, the industry is changing, the way how we work is changing.

Bob:

And yeah, there's definitely, I feel there's a moment in time where you jump on the bandwagon or not, right, but there's going to be a stark difference. So you have to embrace and then not only AI, right, like just just tools in general, like like UV you probably want to use that.

Julian:

It's awesome yeah.

Bob:

There's, it's it's going very fast, but there's also now. We can learn much faster now with AI, so it's not only using the tools, also like you can take on more, and I feel it's necessary. Well, although there are the timeless principles, things are moving very fast. So being a fast learner, I think, is definitely one of the main meta skills you want to develop.

Julian:

And the best way to learn is to build.

Bob:

Just learning, Just the time learning yeah, all right.

Julian:

So look the last thing I'll add on this before we wrap it up making good time is that the quality of your work matters, right, and the passion and enthusiasm. So when you care about something, think about everything you've ever done hobbies, different jobs, whatever it is right. If you have a passion for it and a real enthusiasm to do it and embrace it, you take good care of it right. So if it's your car, you'll polish it. Every weekend you'll wash it. You make sure it's crystal clean, it's working perfectly, everything's fantastic. Same thing with your code. If you are passionate about this position, if you care about your code and how well it works, you are going to optimize the crap out of it in your personal project repo that you can then show to employers and they will see that quality that you put into it the TLC, the tender, loving, care. The readme is going to be robust and descriptive, but simple to read and it's going to be perfect, right? You want to build things to this level that shows how much you care. And then, when you do land an interview, that comes out in how you speak, when you can speak passionately about your project, about what it is that you're building, about why you made those design decisions, about what matters to you or the way you're building, about why you made those design decisions, about what matters to you or the way you learned it and what excited you about the project. That's who people want to hire.

Julian:

Right? Monotone will get you nowhere, right? Not when you're in a sea of thousands of people. Bring some energy. Fake the energy if you have to. You know, put on that persona, for I'm in interview mode. I'm going to be excited about my work. I can go have some quiet time with a book and a coffee in an hour from now. That's my reward, right, but get in there, you know. Be passionate, be excited, and that's the kind of thing that really will put you a step above the rest and end Julian rant. There we go.

Bob:

That's all mindset. Yeah, and Julian Rant, there we go. It's all mindset. It's not only the work itself, it's also how you promote it and the quality right. In this space engineers. They care a lot about quality and detail, so you better have those details in check. I read a funny anecdote about Heat. You still have to watch Heat right, the classic at 95. Oh yeah, michael Mann, the director, they had hour-long discussions about Heat.

Bob:

Yeah, I still have to watch Heat right, the classic at 95. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, michael Mann, the director. They had like hour-long discussions about a watch that a secondary character, not the main character, was wearing when he was holding a phone in a scene that might take a couple of minutes or I don't know, and it was so important right to get these details right and you think about it. Yeah, if you look at these classics and movies that really have stood the test of time, there was that careful detail right. So I found that really inspiring.

Bob:

Now, the opposite as well is perfectionism, right, so you have to strike a balance. Code needs to be shipped, but yeah, I think it's definitely something to take into account.

Julian:

Yeah, Well, look, if you're applying for a job and you're trying to land the Python job, lean towards making it as crisp as possible, right, don't let it stop you from pushing code, but get in there and put the effort in it's incredible how many repos right and then they don't have a quality readme, for example.

Bob:

And that's kind of the first thing if you want to promote a project you should do right.

Julian:

Yeah, I've often skipped a project because it didn't have a readme. I said, oh, I don't have time.

Julian:

I don't have time for this. So, yeah, no, I'm with you. Okay, the last thing I just want to say very quickly. Last week, last time we recorded, I gave a shout out to one of our younger listeners, which was well received by him. He was very excited to receive that shout out. But today and this is one of the best parts about what we do, bob is that we get to talk with people in our community, and I met a guy named Mike, who's in the Chicago area in the US, other side of the planet to me, who's a big fan of the podcast and listens to it with his son on their long drives, and so you know that that meant a lot hearing that he's. He actually was a huge fan of the Jeff Hamer episode that you recorded with Jeff a few weeks months back, and yeah, so special shout out there to Mike. Thanks for listening. We love it and that's it. So, bob, anything changing in your reading since last week.

Bob:

I hope that Jeff Hamer episode didn't make him buy like 25 books or something.

Julian:

He went bankrupt buying books.

Bob:

I saw the description of that podcast and it was like that was the biggest reading list we had for a single episode. I think that was a scrollable list.

Julian:

Yeah, you're right.

Bob:

No reading all over the place, so I did start CPython internals. I'm ashamed, oh yeah, that I took so long to uh to start it, but uh it's anthony's book, don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah but uh, yeah, that that's a good reach right to uh to go a bit deeper and understand the inner mechanics, so that's cool yeah nice you quick one before we go, before the coffee gets cold the book I mentioned last time.

Julian:

I finished book one, and so now I've just started book two. There you go.

Bob:

Coffee did get cold. Right. Took you a while, it took me that long to read it?

Julian:

yeah, all right. Well, look, thank you, bob for the chat and everyone for tuning in to another episode. That's it from us, anything to another episode. That's it from us, anything else, bob, we're just leaving like that.

Bob:

I mean, where should they go, our?

Julian:

community. Right, yeah, that's in the outro, all right, all right. Come and join the community. Come and chat with Bob and I and come and get some coaching. Go and look up the PDM page. Links are below. People achieving incredible things and it's a life-changing experience. So much fun. Just join it. If you're on the fence, just join it.

Bob:

One-to-one or cohort right Cohort is still in progress. The word is out there. We have a page, so we'll link that as well. Of course as we said last time, once, one is always the best, but uh, you can also do it in group setting um very soon, so check it out excellent description yeah, stay tuned.

Julian:

Communities where you hear about it first, so we love it. Yeah, all right, nice, all right, now we can go everyone. Thank you for listening, bob, thank you for the chat and we'll see you in the next episode. Thanks for tuning.

Bob:

Thanks for tuning in Cheers. See you next week.

Julian:

Bye, bye, hey everyone. Thanks for tuning into the PyBytes podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. A quick message from me and Bob before you go To get the most out of your experience with PyBytes, including learning more Python, engaging with other developers, learning about our guests discussing these podcast episodes, learning about our guests discussing these podcast episodes, and much, much more, please join our community at pybytescircleso. The link is on the screen if you're watching this on youtube and it's in the show notes for everyone else. When you join, make sure you introduce yourself, engage with myself and bob and the many other developers in the community. It's one of the greatest things you can do to expand your knowledge and reach and network as a Python developer. We'll see you in the next episode and we will see you in the community.