

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>0:00</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m   fully   in   the   camp   of   C   is   not   a   strongly   typed   language,   and   we   jump   through   a   lot   of   hoops   to   try   to   make   it   more   strongly   typed.   We   write   strongly   typed   wrappers,   we   delete   problematic   overloads,   we   write   templates   that   are   constrained   in   specific   ways,   we   say   I   mean   like   we   teach   single   parameter   or   variadic   constructors   or   constructors   with   default   arguments.   Pretty   much   every   constructor   at   this   point   needs   to   be   explicit.   All   of   these   things   come   down   to   implicit   conversions   that   make   the   language   less   strongly   typed.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>0:57</time>
      <p>
          Speaking   of   conferences,   we   can   switch   to   kind   of   episode   two   of   this   uh   podcast,   which   is   let   us   know   what   you&#39;ve   been   up   to   for   the   last   five   months.   How   has   it   been?   I   mean,   I&#39;ll   link   the   final   episode   where   you   talk   with   Rob   about   sort   of   the   reasons   for   ending   CPP   Cast.   And   I   also   saw   that   there   was   a   I   think   it   was   PVS   Studio   came   out   with   a   sort   of   um   interview   style   post.   So   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   a   written   form   post   if   you   want   to   go   read   that   sort   of   dives   into   those   details   of   you   know   why   CPP   cast   ended.   So   we   don&#39;t   need   to   necessarily   go   into   detail,   but   if   you   want,   feel   free   to   mention   why   it   ended,   what   it&#39;s   been   like   uh   for   the   last   five   months,   and   then   you   know,   we   mentioned   that   you   sort   of   went   to   a   couple   conferences.   Yeah,   tell   us   what   you&#39;ve   been   up   to,   the   talks   you&#39;ve   been   given,   and   uh   we&#39;ll   go   from   there.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>1:39</time>
      <p>
          Well,   a   couple   times   uh   Rob   and   I   have   chatted,   and   we&#39;re   uh   after   like   a   month   or   six   weeks   or   so   after   we   had   ended   C   VPCast,   we&#39;re   like,   wow,   like   my   schedule   feels   just   so   incredibly   different.   Because   there   isn&#39;t   the,   you   know,   on   Monday   morning,   make   sure   we   have   the   show   notes   and   the   news   items   and   the   interview   questions   ready   to   go   for   the   interview   on   Wednesday.   Like   we   like   it   that   was   uh   it   was   basically   the   only   regular   part   of   my   schedule   because   I   haven&#39;t   been   an   employee   in   thirteen   years,   I   think.   Of   a   corporation.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>2:11</time>
      <p>
          You&#39;re   self-employed.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>2:12</time>
      <p>
          Uh   I&#39;m   self-employed.   I   haven&#39;t   had   to   directly   answer   to   someone   else   about   my   schedule   in   a   very   long   time,   except   for   C   VP   Cast.   That   was   seven   years   of   that,   and   that   was   my   regular,   like,   we   have   to   do   these   things   several   times   a   week   kind   of   uh   items   on   there.   So   it   was   kind   of   freeing   in   some   ways   to   just   be   like,   wow,   my   schedule   feels   different.   I   can   I   don&#39;t   know.   It   it   felt   like   I   was   just   more   available   in   some   ways.   Uh   one   of   the   things   that   I   really   wanted   to   do   was   do   more   development   on   my   second   channel,   which   I&#39;ve   recently   renamed.   It   was   called   the   Retro   Programmer,   I   renamed   it   to   the   Fill   in   the   Blank   Programmer,   because   I   just   kind   of   wanted   a   space   where   I   could   talk   about   anything   programmingly   related   and   not   have   to   deal   with   like   the   YouTubers   that   are   like,   I   don&#39;t   like   this   content   because   it&#39;s   not   C,   you   know?   Um,   but   to   be   fair,   the   name   of   the   channel   is   C   weekly,   so   right.   So   my   plan   was   to   do   a   new   episode   on   that   channel   every   other   week,   and   I   did   like   six   weeks   of   that,   but   you   know,   without   the   name   forcing   you   to   keep   going,   C   weekly,   right?   That   forces   me   to   release   an   episode   every   week.   So   um   that   was   kind   of   hard.   I   still   have   plans,   lots   of   plans   for   the   other   channel,   but   I   haven&#39;t   spent   as   much   time   as   I   expected   to.   But   then   I   had   two   different   contracts   with   one   of   my   clients   that   I   was   trying   to   wrap   up.   So   in   between   the   other   things,   um,   let&#39;s   see,   flew   to   England   to   speak   at   C   on   C   in   June,   right?   That   was   June,   right?   No,   that&#39;s   July.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>3:54</time>
      <p>
          Uh   I   think   it   was   either   late   June   or   early   July,   because   that   was   no,   it   must   have   been   July,   because   it   was   the   week   before,   I   think,   CPP   North.   And   CPP   North   was.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>4:07</time>
      <p>
          So   the   28th   through   the   30th   of   June.   Oh   no,   that&#39;s   2023,   never   mind.   He   already   put   up   information   for   next   week   or   for   next   year.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>4:13</time>
      <p>
          Oh   yeah,   that&#39;s   an   irritating   thing   about   some   conferences,   is   like   tracking   the   dates   and   the   talks   by   year.   Uh   because   the   main   link   always   goes   to   whatever   the   most   recent   conferences   is.   And   uh   some   conferences   are   great   about   you   can   find   a   thing   and   click   on   a   year.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>4:29</time>
      <p>
          I   could   just   look   at   my   own   personal   calendar.   That&#39;s   beside   the   point.   I   went   and   I   did   a   workshop   there   and   spoke.   Um   did   the   closing   keynote   at   Consie.   And   then   drove   from   there   to   the   Netherlands   to   do   like   my   first   on-site   training   and   uh   well,   it   had   been   seven   months   since   I   had   done   my   last   like   training   event.   So   I   did   no   four   months,   sorry.   So   I   did   that,   and   then   flew   from   the   Netherlands   to   Toronto   to   go   to   C   North   and   then   flew   home.   So   that   was   a   three-week   trip,   which   like   we&#39;re   talking   2019   was   crazy.   2019,   that   would   have   been   like,   whatever,   that&#39;s   just   January   2022.   You&#39;re   like,   oh   my   goodness,   am   I   going   to   survive   this?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>5:15</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   yeah.   And   and   we   have   to   say,   I   have   to   say   thank   you   as   uh   because   you   m   ended   up   giving   two   talks   at   CPP   North.   I   did.   Um,   you   initially   submitted   and   got   accepted   the   power   of   compile   time   resources,   I   believe.   And   then   we   ended   up   having   a   couple   different   speakers   that   didn&#39;t   end   up   making   it.   You   know,   one   of   them   the   airline   was   on   strike.   Oh   right.   Like   the   the   the   days   leading   up   to   it.   And   anyways.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>5:43</time>
      <p>
          That   was   Scandinavian   era,   right?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>5:45</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   a   couple   different   reasons   we   weren&#39;t   able   to   have   a   couple   speakers.   And   so   you   stepped   up   and   gave   a   second   talk,   which   was   the   best   parts   of   C,   which   is   one   of   my   favorite   talks   that   you&#39;ve   given.   You&#39;ve   given   it   at   a   previous   previous   conference   before.   And   I   I   love   that   talk   because   there&#39;s   so   like   there&#39;s   so   many   talks   in   C   that   focus   on   the   warts   of   the   language.   Like   I   think   even   yourself,   you   know,   you&#39;ve   given   talks   about   like   why   initializer   list   is   broken,   and   you   know,   so   that   there&#39;s   a   a   ton   of   talks   out   there   that   focus   on   UB   and   crazy   things   and   shooting   yourself   in   the   foot,   and   it   sort   of   you   know   goes   hand   in   hand   with   C.   There   are   much   fewer   talks,   at   least   from   my   what   I&#39;ve   observed,   of   like   why   this   language   is   a   great   language   and   focusing   on   all   the   things   that   like   as   C   professionals,   we   know   everything   bad   about   the   language,   and   it&#39;s   very   easy   to,   you   know,   it&#39;s   I   feel   like   it&#39;s   almost   like   conferences.   It&#39;s   like   the   thing,   it&#39;s   like,   oh,   so   what   are   we   complaining   about   in   this   group   of   people?   It&#39;s   never,   hey,   let&#39;s   talk   about   you   know   the   ability   to   do   generic   programming   in   C   and   the   power   that   we   have   with   insert   this   or   insert   that.   And   and   your   talk   sort   of   goes   through,   I   can&#39;t   remember   if   it&#39;s   uh   15   things   or   25   things,   but   it&#39;s   sort   of   all   these,   you   know,   a   list   of   things,   and   you   spend   a   few   minutes   on   each   one   talking   about   like   why   this   is   great   and   uh   why   you   should   be   excited   about   this   in   C.   So   it&#39;s   a   very   like   positive   oriented   talk.   And   I   remember   watching   it,   one   feeling   like   this   is   refreshing   to   hear   someone   like   talking   about   why   they   really   like   the   language,   but   two,   I   was   like   just   found   myself   nodding   the   whole   time.   Every   once   in   a   while,   you&#39;d   get   to   something   like   as   simple   as   you   know   the   auto   keyword   for   type   inference.   And   it&#39;s   like,   well,   that   is   actually   like   it&#39;s   amazing   when   you   compare   it   to   what   you   had   to   do   back   in   like   pre-C11,   where   you   have   to   spell   out   all   the   namespaces   and   the   iterator   types.   It&#39;s   like   we   take   it   for   granted   now,   as   you   know,   quote   unquote   dealing   in   modern   versions   of   the   language,   but   like   compared   to   what   you   had   to   use   to   write,   it&#39;s   amazing.   And   even   like   comparing   the   type   inference   in   C   compared   to   Rust,   like   a   lot   of   times   you   have   to   spell   things   out   in   Rust   and   you   forget   that   like,   oh   yeah,   I   can   just   deduce   the   type   of   this   function   returns   because   C   is   great   at   that   stuff.   And   uh   you   you   we   take   it   for   granted.   And   anyways,   enough   about   how   amazing   that   talk   is.   You   can   say   more   about   the   two   talks   you   gave   at   CPP   North,   and   then   I   just   watched   the   one   at   C   on   C,   which   is   making   C   fun,   safe,   and   accessible,   I   think   if   I   got   the   the   title   right.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>7:56</time>
      <p>
          That   sounds   right,   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>7:57</time>
      <p>
          So   how   did   those   all   go?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>7:59</time>
      <p>
          Well,   okay,   so   I   kind   of   want   to   rewind   just   a   tad,   because   that   talk   you   said   was   your   favorite   came   from   that   2019   year   when   I   was   doing   all   the   travel,   and   I   had   kind   of   set   a   public   goal,   I   think   I&#39;ve   tweeted   it   even,   of   being   like   more   positive   about   the   language   and   not   just   focusing   on   the   words,   because   it&#39;s   too   easy   and   too   fun   to   do   that,   basically.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>8:24</time>
      <p>
          And   dunking   is   it&#39;s   the   best,   it&#39;s   why   Twitter,   Twitter,   you   know,   insert   posting   is   a   thing   for   a   reason.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>8:30</time>
      <p>
          And   then   I   got   invited   to   uh   keynote   at   um   Core   C   ⁇ ,   it&#39;s   the   first   year   in   Israel   and   uh   in   Tel   Aviv,   and   I   thought,   well,   you   know   what,   like   I   I   have   strong   opinions   about   what   a   keynote   should   be,   and   I   think   keynotes   should   in   general   be   um   a   positive   experience   about   the   language,   right?   Like   if   the   keynote   speaker   that   you   invited   to   the   conference   spends,   you   know,   30   minutes   of   their   90   minutes   dunking   on   the   language,   I   feel   like   it   might   not   have   been   the   best   choice   for   a   keynote.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>9:13</time>
      <p>
          C   plus   plus   keynote,   why   you   should   use   Rust.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>9:16</time>
      <p>
          You   know,   um,   so   I   thought,   well,   I   really   have   to   like   come   up   with   something   that&#39;s   like   really   good   and   positive   and   focuses   on   the   good   things   of   the   language.   So   that   talk   is   specifically   organized   to   be   an   evolution   of   the   language.   It   kind   of   takes   you   from   like   how   ugly   things   were   in   C   98,   from   those   of   us   who   like   started   with   C   then,   to   like   how   clean   and   simple   things   can   be   with   a   few   auto   keywords   arranged   for   loop   and   you   know,   uh   you   know,   a   concept   or   two   thrown   in   or   something   like   that,   right?   Uh   and   it&#39;s   funny   because   I   still   like,   man,   I   I   get   these   people   pushed   back   still   sometimes   on   YouTube   and   on   Twitter.   They&#39;re   like,   auto   is   uh   dumpster   fire,   it   doesn&#39;t   actually   help   with   anything,   it   just   makes   your   code   harder   to   read   and   whatever.   And   and   and   and   I&#39;ll   come   back   and   I&#39;ll   say,   really,   like,   really,   you   would   rather   type   std   colon   colon   vector   std   colon   colon   string   colon   colon   const   underscore   iterator. Like   that&#39;s   really   what   you   want   to   type   instead. And   people   will   push   back   with   like,   yes,   because   then   I   know   what   my   program   is   doing.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>10:26</time>
      <p>
          And   I   no,   no,   I&#39;ve   been   there.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>10:31</time>
      <p>
          I   did   that   for   a   long   time. No,   this   is   definitely   better.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>10:34</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   I   I   am   a   hundred   percent   in   the   almost   always   auto   camp.   Um,   and   don&#39;t   get   me   wrong,   I   I   I   love   the   banter   back   and   forth.   You   know,   I   I&#39;ve   seen   people   give   talks   where   they   advocate   for   this,   and   then   the   QA   at   the   end   is   just   people   coming   up.   What   about   this   case?   And   what   about   yes,   you   know,   that   is   programming.   It   depends   a   lot   of   the   times,   but   like   for   what   you   just   explained,   I   don&#39;t   know   how   you   can   argue   in   the   opposite   direction.   That   like   oh   people   do.   You   can   a   lot   of   the   times   even   when   you&#39;re   using   auto,   by   looking   to   what&#39;s   at   the   right   of   the   equal   sign,   you   can   a   lot   of   the   times   like   get   a   great   sense   or   even   know   exactly   what   the   type   of   the   thing   is   that   you&#39;re   getting.   Interesting   that   you   get   that   pushback,   but   I   you   know,   that&#39;s   that&#39;s   YouTube   and   Twitter   for   you.   And   Reddit,   you   know,   why   not   while   we&#39;re   throwing   them   all   under   the   bus.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>11:17</time>
      <p>
          And   when   I&#39;m   doing   like   training   and   auto   comes   up,   the   argument   I   generally   make   is   do   you   care   what   the   type   of   this   thing   is?   Do   you   really   care   what   the   type   of   vector   dot   size   is?   And   99%   of   the   time   the   answer   is   no.   I   I   know   it&#39;s   an   integral   thing.   I   don&#39;t   care   what   the   type   is.   And   if   you   really   want   to,   you   know,   constrain   it   with   std   integral,   auto,   or   whatever,   right?   Like   I   don&#39;t   care.   And   and   so   I   try   to   point   out   that   I   think   choosing   to   not   care   what   the   exact   type   is   is   better   than   accidentally   invoking   an   implicit   conversion   to   the   type   that   you   thought   that   it   should   be.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>11:59</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   There&#39;s   been   I   know   at   least   one   bug   that   I   caused   in   my   first   job   as   a   C   dev   where   I   was   using   not   auto.   I   was   using   short   or   something,   or   you   know,   int32T,   and   it   was   returning   uh   a   long   long   or   something.   And   we   had   some   rule   that,   like,   you   know,   we&#39;re   not   supposed   to   use   auto,   but   because   it   was   a   numeric   insurance   calculator,   we   had   turned   off,   and   this   is   gonna   hurt   your   soul   because   I   know   your   views   on   this.   We   had   turned   off   like   the   W   all   and   W   no   conversion,   and   this   ended   up   in   like   a   bug   that   got   reported   by   a   client   because   the   long   long   was   like   a   table   ID   and   it   got   truncated,   and   so   it   ended   up   in   a   crash.   And   like   I   ended   up   giving   an   internal   talk,   or   like   lightning   talk,   it   wasn&#39;t   that   long,   basically   being   like,   this   bug   would   have   been   avoided   if   we   had   used   auto,   because   it   would   I   wouldn&#39;t   have   to   care   about   what   the   what   the   type   of   this   you   know   table   ID,   you   know,   once   or   if   you   could   have   turned   on   W   conversion,   it   would   have   been   caught   that   way   too.   I   mean   it   would   it   would   break   your   heart   to   see   all   the   warnings   that   are   turned   off.   And   and   um   I   mean   I   think   we   had   explicit   or   implicit   conversions   from   like   floating   to   double,   like   all   over   the   place,   and   conversions   to   bool.   Yes,   it   was   I   I&#39;m   with   you   that   um   follow   the   starter   project,   turn   everything   on   by   default,   and   then   like   you   just   don&#39;t   have   to   worry   about   that   stuff   down   the   road.   But   yeah,   my   argument   was   like   use   auto   and   then   we   would   have   we   would   have   avoided   the   bug.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>13:19</time>
      <p>
          So   I   you&#39;re   alluding   to   the   fact   that   I&#39;ve   been   on   a   little   bit   of   a   rampage   about   conversion   lately.   I&#39;m   assuming   you&#39;ve   seen   some   of   that   on   Twitter.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>13:27</time>
      <p>
          Um   I   have   seen   some   of   it   on   Twitter,   but   I   think   it&#39;s   top   of   mind   just   because   um   I   just   finished   watching   the   the   C   on   C   Talk   where   you   bring   it   up,   and   then   also   your   most   recent   um   C   weekly   video   talked   about   it   as   well   and   how   the   bugs   could   have   been   avoided   if   you   just   turned   on   the   W-   or   Dash   W,   you   know,   insert   all   the   things.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>13:47</time>
      <p>
          Well,   it   just   w   conversion   is   the   one   that   I&#39;m   only   rampaging   on   at   the   moment.   That&#39;s   the   one   that   I   mean   like,   yes,   I   want   all   the   other   ones   too,   but   that&#39;s   the   one   that   I   have   found   historically   is   the   most   difficult   to   convince   people   to   use.   So   I   did   uh   one   of   my   friends   uh   does   security   related   work,   not   C,   but   he&#39;ll   send   me   things   sometimes   where   he   says,   look   at   this   bug   that   was   in   the   C   code.   And   I,   you   know,   I   I   look   at   it   and   I   can   oftentimes   spot   it   relatively   quickly   because   I&#39;m   experienced   with   C.   For   him,   the   language   is   you   know   less   familiar.   But   he&#39;s   the   one   who   sent   me   the   PlayStation   bug.   And   I   looked   at   it   and   he&#39;s   like,   Yeah,   this   error   is   less   obvious   to   me.   I   look   at   it   and   I   say,   W   conversion   would   have   caught   that   immediately.   And   so   I   start   doing   some   more   looking,   which   I&#39;ve   never   really   done   before,   but   I   start   like   browsing   through   the   cert   database,   and   I&#39;ve   so   far   identified   at   least   ten   fairly   major   security   bugs   that   are   in   the   cert   database,   C   V   E&#39;s   database,   excuse   me,   C   V   E   database,   of   um   ten   major   bugs   in   C   programs   that   would   have   been   caught   with   dash   W   conversion.   Security   flaws.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>14:55</time>
      <p>
          Wow.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>14:56</time>
      <p>
          Like   big   deals.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>14:57</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>14:57</time>
      <p>
          C   C   and   C   code,   not   all   C   code.   Um   so   I&#39;ve   been   I&#39;ve   been   going   at   this   on   Twitter   for   the   last   two   days,   just   like,   oh,   does   anyone   else   want   to   see   another   security   flaw   that   would   have   been   caught   with   W   conversion?   And   I   still   have   people   pushing   back   on   Twitter,   like,   oh,   it&#39;s   just   too   noisy,   it   doesn&#39;t   actually   catch   anything   useful. And   I&#39;m   like,   it&#39;s   that   that   security   bug   right   there   that   I   just   showed   you   would   have   caught.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>15:23</time>
      <p>
          I   think   the   problem   is   that   a   lot   of   companies   don&#39;t   have   this   stuff   on   default   from   the   beginning,   and   so   having   them   try   and   turn   it   on   after   the   fact   leads   to   like   thousands   and   thousands   of   things.   But   it&#39;s   like   if   you&#39;re   starting   a   new   project   like   Greenfield,   it   is   so   nice   to   have   static   analyzers,   like   I   consider   them   like   programming   hugs.   Like,   and   I   I   term   that   from   like   you   know,   doing   a   little   bit   of   Rust   programming.   It&#39;s   like   the   Rust   compiler,   it&#39;s   just   like   the   difference   between   Rust   and   like   C   without   all   the   analyzers   and   warnings   turned   on.   It&#39;s   just   like,   hey,   you&#39;re   doing   this,   you   don&#39;t   need   to   do   this.   Do   you   want   to   do   this?   And   then   like   gives   you   a   suggestion   of   what   you   should   do,   and   you&#39;re   like,   wow,   that&#39;s   well,   thank   you   for   that.   That&#39;s   very   nice.   Uh   and   it&#39;s   like   that&#39;s   what   warnings   are.   It&#39;s   like   turn   them   to   fail,   and   it&#39;s   like,   ah,   this   didn&#39;t   work.   Like,   and   I   will   give   you   this.   The   C&#39;s   warnings   aren&#39;t   as   good.   Um,   but   for   a   lot   of   the   bread   and   butter   ones,   like   conversions,   they   point   exactly   at   what   the   problem   is,   and   it&#39;s   just   like,   oh,   you&#39;re   doing,   do   you   want   to   do   this?   And   it&#39;s   like,   uh   yeah,   I   don&#39;t   want   it.   Well,   thank   you   very   much.   It&#39;s   just   like   having   a   nice   friend   there   that   like   puts   their   arm   around   your   shoulder   and   says,   Hey   buddy,   uh,   did   you   mean   to   do   this?   And   it&#39;s   like,   you&#39;re   right,   I   didn&#39;t   mean   to   do   that.   Thank   you   very   much.   And   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   not   something   that   gets   in   the   way.   It&#39;s   something   that   if   you   use   it   from   the   beginning,   it&#39;s   just   like   having   a   nice   friend   staring   over   your   shoulder.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>16:36</time>
      <p>
          Well,   and   I   also   find   it   kind   of   reprograms   how   I   program,   so   I&#39;m   less   likely   to   write   code   that   would   ever   invoke   those   warnings   in   the   first   place.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>16:45</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   yeah.   That&#39;s   it&#39;s   true.   This   is   the   same   way   with   formatting,   is   a   lot   of   the   times   you   can   sort   of   predict   when   something   is   gonna   get   is   gonna   do   terribly   in   formatting.   So   you&#39;ll   adjust   the   way   that   you&#39;re   structuring   something,   not   semantically,   but   just   sort   of   anyway,   so   I&#39;m   gonna   ask   you   a   question   though.   Okay.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>17:04</time>
      <p>
          Rust   doesn&#39;t   allow   implicit   conversions,   right?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>17:07</time>
      <p>
          Correct.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>17:08</time>
      <p>
          Are   there   any   implicit   conversions   from   C   that   you   wish   Rust   actually   did?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>17:17</time>
      <p>
          I   don&#39;t   think   so.   I   mean,   I   do   there   are   parts   of   C   that   like   having   learned   it   and   used   it   in   coding   competitions   that   are   like   shortcuts   that   are   like,   if   you   know   what   you&#39;re   doing,   are   really   nice.   Like   probably   my   favorite   one   is   if   you   do   a   plus,   or   what   is   it?   If   you   do   an   equal   on   a   hash   map,   like   an   unordered   map   or   map,   it&#39;ll   automatically   insert   or   use   the   default   value   or   something.   Whereas   like   in   other   languages,   like   Python,   you   can&#39;t   do   that   with   a   dictionary.   You   have   to   use   a   specialized   collection   called   the   default   dictionary.   Um   that   is   a   nice   hack   that   like   when   I&#39;m   trying   to   write   something   really   quickly   for   a   competition,   I   like   that   that&#39;s   there.   And   I   like   that   I   can   use   an   integer   as   a   Boolean   value   in   a   while   loop   and   not   have   to   do   like   a   not   equal   to   zero   to   materialize   that   Boolean   so   like   it   type   checks.   Things   like   that   I   like   for   like,   you   know,   being   doing   hacking   and   going   really   quickly.   But   like   if   I&#39;m   writing   production   code,   I   I   don&#39;t   think   implicit   conversions   uh   are   something   that   there   are   things   that   I   are   not   in   Rust   that   I   miss   but   from   C.   But   yeah,   implicit   conversions   is   not   one   of   them.   Why?   Do   you   are   there   conversions   that   you   miss?   Or   I   know   you&#39;ve   done   a   little   bit   of   programming   because   I&#39;ve   seen   the   live   stream   that   you   did   with   your   your   cousin   uh   back   in   the   day.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>18:30</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   no,   I   I&#39;ve   only   I&#39;ve   only   toyed   with   Rust,   but   um   I&#39;ve   since   I&#39;m   on   this   rant   about   implicit   conversions   right   now,   I&#39;m   becoming   increasingly   convinced   that   I&#39;m   gonna   go   with   at   least   fifty   percent   of   the   sharp   edges   in   C   would   no   longer   exist   if   we   had   a   compiler   flag   to   disable   implicit   conversions.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>18:52</time>
      <p>
          Interesting.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>18:53</time>
      <p>
          That&#39;s   based   on   what,   like,   just   thinking   through   my   own   training   material.   And   I&#39;m   like,   wow,   if   we   didn&#39;t   have   implicit   conversions,   the   section   wouldn&#39;t   matter,   the   section   wouldn&#39;t   matter,   the   section   wouldn&#39;t   matter.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>19:04</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   I   mean,   I   know   a   whole   category   of   bugs   that   I&#39;ve   seen   in   multiple   companies   that   I&#39;ve   worked   at   where   it&#39;s   a   combination   of   things,   but   like   you   have   arguments,   you   know,   I&#39;ve   seen   both   the   bug   where   you   have   a   long   list   of   arguments,   some   of   which   are   pointers   and   some   of   which   are   booleans,   and   then   they   mix   up   the   order,   and   then   one   will   implicitly   convert.   And   I&#39;ve   also   seen   where   you   have   a   long   list   of   parameters   and   some   default   arguments,   and   then   you   forget   like   that   there&#39;s   defaults   there.   And   anyways,   and   like   some   of   that   is   just   like   don&#39;t   put   three   booleans   in   a   row   next   to   pointers   or   whatever.   It&#39;s   just   that   the   reading   the   code,   you   have   no   idea   what   true,   false,   true,   true   means.   Um   but   yeah,   if   implicit   conversions   weren&#39;t   allowed,   that   would   like   I   think   all   of   those   bugs   would   disappear.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>19:44</time>
      <p>
          We   wouldn&#39;t   have   to   teach   what   object   slicing   is   if   we   didn&#39;t   have   implicit   conversions.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>19:49</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   I   prefer   static   typing   in   general   and   strong   typing.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>19:52</time>
      <p>
          And   implicit   conversions   break   strong   typing.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>19:55</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>19:56</time>
      <p>
          I   was   gonna   say   C   is   not   a   strongly   typed   language,   specifically   because   it   has   implicit   conversions   baked   into   the   language.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>20:03</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   this   is   a   great,   well,   not   necessarily   tangent,   but   like   so   and   I   first   started   thinking   about   this   when   I   think   I   attended   my   first   conference,   which   is   in   2019,   and   Peter   Somerlad   was   giving   a   talk   on   strong   typing,   and   I   think   I   had   watched   a   couple   talks   online.   I   think   one   was   given   by   Phil   Nash,   you   know,   it&#39;s   static   typing,   dynamic   typing,   strong   weak.   And   I   was   trying   to   figure   out   like   what   is   strongly   typed,   because   like   static   versus   dynamic   is   like   it&#39;s   by   definition,   but   like   strong   versus   weak   just   seems   to   be   an   opinion.   And   Peter   was   arguing,   and   I   remember   asking,   if   you   go   back   and   watch   the   talk,   I   can   throw   it   in   the   links.   I   remember   asking,   like,   how   can   you   say   like   C   is   strong?   Like   it   implicitly   converts   everything,   like   compared   to   Haskell,   compared   to   Java,   it&#39;s   a   weaker   language.   Like,   how   can   you   call   it   strong?   And   then   everybody   in   the   room,   or   at   least   most   of   the   people   that   were   answering,   and   Peter   said,   like,   it&#39;s   strong   if   you   want   it   to   be   strong.   Like   you   can   design   your   programming   code   to   be   strong.   But   I   was   like,   okay,   so   if   you&#39;re   defining   custom   types,   etc.,   but   like,   but   that&#39;s   like   so   you   can   opt   in   and   write   a   strong   program,   but   like   the   language   by   default   is   not   strong.   And   like   there   are   some   people   that   are   probably   listening   to   this   that&#39;ll   respond   on   Twitter   being   like,   no,   C   is   strong.   But   like   on   a   ranking   of   like   of   languages,   like   it   falls,   I   think   it   falls   below   like   Python.   I   think   Python   is   more   strongly   typed   than   C&#39;s   potentially.   But   also   like   the   argument   of   what   makes   a   strong   language,   it&#39;s   like   you   ask   a   different   programmer,   software   engineer,   or   PL   person,   and   they&#39;ll   give   you   a   different   answer.   Some   people   don&#39;t   think   that   like   implicit   conversions   has   anything   to   do   with   whether   a   type   is   uh   strongly   typed   or   not.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>21:30</time>
      <p>
          I   guess   I&#39;m   moderately   curious   what   that   argument   is.   I&#39;m   fully   in   the   camp   of   C   is   not   a   strongly   typed   language.   And   we   jump   through   a   lot   of   hoops   to   try   to   make   it   more   strongly   typed.   We   write   strongly   typed   wrappers,   we   delete   problematic   overloads,   we   write   templates   that   are   constrained   in   specific   ways,   we   say   I   mean   like   we   teach   single   parameter   or   variadic   constructors   or   constructors   with   default   arguments,   pretty   much   every   constructor.   At   this   point,   it   needs   to   be   explicit.   We   um   any   conversion   operator   we   argue   needs   to   be   explicit.   And   then   we   see   these   like   uh,   you   know,   people   tweeting   about   how   C   is   a   dumpster   fire   because   you   can   do   something   like   pass   an   int   to   the   constructor   for   a   string   and   you   have   no   idea   what   it&#39;s   going   to   do,   basically.   All   of   these   things   come   down   to   implicit   conversions   that   make   the   language   less   strongly   typed.   If   I   can   pass   an   int   theoretically,   or   a   boolean,   well   you   can   pass   a   boolean,   right?   You   can   pass   a   boolean   to   a   function   expecting   a   string   because   it&#39;s   going   to   implicitly   find   the   const   character   pointer   overload   for   standard   string   constructor.   And   that&#39;s   not   what   you   wanted   it   to   do,   right?   So   I   don&#39;t   think   it&#39;s   strongly   typed.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>22:52</time>
      <p>
          You   heard   it   here   first.   Jason   doesn&#39;t   think   so.   I   don&#39;t   think   so.   And   there&#39;s   a   ton   of   talks   online.   I&#39;ll   I&#39;ll   try   and   find   a   few   of   them.   I&#39;ll   find   the   Peter   one.   Yeah,   I&#39;m   not   sure   if   it&#39;s   C   devs   that   they   just   don&#39;t   like   to   admit   that   other   languages   are   better   when   it   comes   to   this.   And   like   you   can   get   so   much   stuff.   Um   I   just   recently   discovered   one   of   my   favorite   things   in   programming   is   Haskell   has   a   function   search   engine   based   on   um   they   call   it   type   signature,   but   in   in   C   ⁇   or   C   it&#39;s   just   a   function   signature.   Um   and   so   you   can,   you   know,   if   you   want   to   find   all   the   functions   that   take   a   vector   and   return   a   vector,   like   you   can   do   that   in   Haskell   because   it&#39;s   such   a   it&#39;s   got   an   amazing   type   inference   engine   and   it&#39;s   so   strongly   typed.   And   Rust   has   a   sort   of,   it&#39;s   not   as   amazing   because   of   all   the   different   you   know   types   that   you   can   have   in   Rust,   but   it   has   something   called   Rugal,   which   is   uh,   I   guess   a   play   on   Hoogle,   which   is   a   play   on   you   know   Haskell   Google.   Someone   someone   responded,   what   is   Go?   If   Go   has   one,   what   are   they   gonna   call   it?   Uh   because   it&#39;s   already   taken.   Um   but   like   you   know,   C   ⁇   I   don&#39;t   think   could   really   ever   have   something   like   that   because   of   the   implicit   conversions.   Like   you   could   have   a   very   poor   form   of   it,   but   like   it&#39;s   not   actually   gonna   capture   what   you   all   the   different   you   know   things   that   could   possibly   work.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>24:03</time>
      <p>
          Well   you   can   get,   yeah,   I   mean   some   tools   get   pretty   close-ish.   Like   I   think   in   C   Lion,   if   you   type   like   function   name   open   paren,   it   will   show   you   like   in   a   uniform   call   syntax   way,   both   all   of   the   things   that   could   be   member   functions   on   the   next   type   that   you&#39;re   typing   in,   or   all   the   things   that   could   take   that   type   as   a   function   parameter.   So   it   gets   pretty   close,   but   not   no,   not   to   that   extent.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>24:31</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;ve   heard   that.   I   saw   the   tweet   that   JetPranes   did   about   the   that   C-line   feature,   and   I   think   I   retweeted   and   said   of   like,   if   this   is   true,   like   that&#39;s   a   that&#39;s   amazing,   because   that&#39;s   kind   of   one   of   the   arguments   for   why   you   want   like   a   UFCS   um   uh   sort   of   paradigm   or   like   you   know,   object-oriented   where   you   can   have   the   sort   of   dot   completion.   You   know,   go   you   go   dot   on   an   object,   and   then   it   can   easily   suggest   you   everything   that   can   come.   And   without   that,   if   you&#39;re   just   calling   free   functions,   it&#39;s   a   lot   harder.   But   supposedly   I&#39;ve   heard   C   line   has   pretty   good.   It   does   work.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>25:04</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   Although   sometimes   it   confuses   me   because   I&#39;m   like,   I   wasn&#39;t   looking   for   a   free   function,   I   was   looking   for   a   member.   And   they&#39;re   like,   oh   right,   it&#39;s   doing   this   to   be   helpful.   Okay,   however.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>25:14</time>
      <p>
          That   is   pretty   awesome.   Look   at   that.   Free   sponsorship   for   uh   for   JetBrains.   Uh   do   we   have   a   sponsor   for   this   show?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>25:19</time>
      <p>
          How   does   it   no,   no,   no?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>25:20</time>
      <p>
          We&#39;ve   been   reached   out   by   a   bunch   of   companies,   but   it&#39;s   one   of   the   things   that   uh   until   I   there&#39;s   some   huge   monetary,   like   life-changing   amount   of   money,   I   don&#39;t   think.   I   uh   I   like   having   the   uninterrupted   sponsors   and   uh   quick   outro.   Although   some   people   complain,   they&#39;re   like,   we   didn&#39;t   know   that   episode   was   gonna   end.   You   could   have   given   us   like   a   30-second   heads   up   because   a   lot   of   the   times   I   just   like   hard   cut   and   it   says,   Thanks   for   listening.   Bye.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>25:44</time>
      <p>
          Wait   for   next   week   for   the   next   episode.   Yeah.   Subscribe   now.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>25:48</time>
      <p>
          All   right,   we   were   talking   though.   We   took   a   couple   tangents.   We   were   talking   about   um   C   on   C   slash   CPP   North   and   the   talks   that   happened   there.   So   yeah,   how   did   how   did   C   on   C   go?   How   did   the   the   workshop   go?   How&#39;d   your   talk   go?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>26:01</time>
      <p>
          I   had   one   paid   student   in   my   workshop,   the   rest   were   volunteers.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>26:04</time>
      <p>
          Oh   wow.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>26:05</time>
      <p>
          And   then   the   workshop   that   I   was   supposed   to   give   at   CBPCon   got   canceled   because   there   wasn&#39;t   enough   people   signed   up.   It   was   wor   this   was   a   bad   year   for   uh   on-site   workshops   for   conferences,   that   is   what   I   observed.   But   I   don&#39;t   know   how   they   went   at   C   North   because   I   didn&#39;t   give   one   there.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>26:19</time>
      <p>
          Uh   if   I   recall   correctly,   I&#39;m   gonna   get   this   wrong,   but   I   think   on   average   it   was   way   lower   than   what   we   had   hoped,   but   I   think   there   was   at   least   four   to   seven   in   each   class,   and   I   know   one   of   them   I   think   originally   had   six   or   something,   and   then   two   or   three   didn&#39;t   end   up   um   able   to   come   in   because   once   again   travel   problems.   Right.   But   I   think   I   mean   it   looked   it   looked   like   it   was   gonna   be   similar   to   like,   you   know,   one   or   two   students,   but   I   think   each   one   ended   up   having   at   least   I   want   to   say   it   was   in   like   the   four   to   seven   range.   Uh,   if   I&#39;m   drastically   off,   you   know,   look   forward   to   a   future   episode   while   uh   where   I   will   correct   this   after   Mike   Dom   DMs   me   and   he&#39;s   like,   How&#39;d   you   get   it   so   wrong?   There   were   17   in   each   class.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>27:00</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   well,   but   regardless,   it   sounds   like   yeah,   probably   not   like   it   was   three   years   ago,   where   at   a   reasonably   sized   conference   you   expected   around   10   to   30   students   in   each   class   or   something   like   that.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>27:10</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   It   was   uh   a   lot   smaller,   I   think.   Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>27:14</time>
      <p>
          Uh   but   the   conferences   were   all   good.   Um   I   had   direct   exposure   to   COVID   at   the   speakers&#39;   dinner   at   C   on   C,   and   then   I   had   direct   exposure   to   COVID   at   the   speaker&#39;s   dinner   at   C   North. So   I   skipped   the   speaker&#39;s   dinner   at   CBPCon   because   I   decided   I   just   didn&#39;t   want   to   go   down   that   road   again.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>27:34</time>
      <p>
          Did   you   manage   to   dodge   COVID   in   both   instances?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>27:37</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   as   far   as   I   know.   I   mean,   over   the   last   how   long   has   it   been   since   we   did   this   thing?   Two   almost   three   years,   right?   All   of   2020,   2021,   2022   almost.   I&#39;ve   had   like,   I   don&#39;t   know,   two   or   three   weeks   in   total   that   I   felt   like   I   feel   kind   of   run   down.   I   should   take   a   relaxing   day   tomorrow.   But   as   far   as   I   know,   I&#39;ve   never   I   haven&#39;t   even   had   a   cold,   like,   because   of   all   the   things,   I   guess.   And   I&#39;m   the   kind   of   person   who   usually   gets   like   a   bad   cold   once   a   year.   So   didn&#39;t   have   a   cold.   I&#39;ve   never   tested   positive   for   COVID.   Between   um   C   on   C   and   C   P   North,   I   took   a   COVID   test   an   average   of   like   every   other   day   just   to   see   how   I   was   doing.   And   they   all   came   back   negative.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>28:28</time>
      <p>
          That&#39;s   what   I   know.   That&#39;s   that&#39;s   pretty   lucky.   I   mean,   I   know   that   for   most   of   the   times,   not   the   dinner   obviously   when   folks   are   eating,   but   it   was   a   masked   conference   at   C   North.   Um   I&#39;m   not   sure   if   C   on   C,   but   obviously   that   helps   if   you&#39;re   uh   if   folks   are   masking   at   least   when   you   can,   obviously,   if   you&#39;re   putting   a   piece   of   the   case.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>28:45</time>
      <p>
          C   on   C   was   not   a   masked   conference,   but   the   weather   was   good   enough   and   the   way   that   venue   is   set   up,   we   generally   speaking   had   pretty   good   airflow   through   the   conference.   Right.   But   there   was   uh   five   or   six   people   who   tested   positive   after   that   one.   Like   relatively   low   numbers   still.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>29:02</time>
      <p>
          And   generally,   I   think   C   North,   I   don&#39;t   know   the   total   numbers.   There   was   one   or   two   people   that   tested   positive.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>29:09</time>
      <p>
          They   were   at   my   table   at   the   speaker&#39;s   dinner.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>29:11</time>
      <p>
          Oh   were   they?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>29:13</time>
      <p>
          Yes.   Because   I   got   an   email   saying   just   so   you   know,   two   people   at   your   table,   the   speaker&#39;s   dinner   tested   positive.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>29:20</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   that&#39;s   always   concerning.   Uh   I   can&#39;t   remember   if   they   might   have   been   I   mean,   I&#39;m   sure   I   had   close   exposure   as   well.   I   got   uh   email.   Um   but   yeah,   luckily,   I   mean   at   the   at   the   time   I   think   I   was   triple   vaccinated   and   had   already   had   it   in   I   think   it   was   earlier   this   year.   I   went   skiing   and   ended   up   getting   it.   Uh   and   it   was   pretty   bad   actually   because   I   had   missed   my   third   vaccine.   I   think   it   was   my   third   vaccine.   I   was   registered   to   get   on   a   Monday,   and   then   the   ski   trip   was   a   Friday   to   Saturday,   and   then   there   was   a   snowstorm   on   the   Monday,   and   my   uh   appointment   got   cancelled,   and   I   tried   to   rebook,   and   then   they   rebooked   it   for   like   the   Friday   that   I   was   leaving,   and   so   I   ended   up   didn&#39;t   end   up   getting   it,   caught   COVID,   and   then   basically   was   like   dying   for   four   days.   But   uh   and   then   I   ended   up   getting   like   the   booster,   the   third   vaccine,   like   a   week   after   that,   which   two   days   after   I   got   that,   they   then   said,   Oh,   if   you   just   recovered   from   COVID,   wait   like   eight   weeks   because   you   don&#39;t   really   need   it.   So   then   I   there   was   like   a   period   where   I   was   like   ultra,   ultra   like   safe   from   it   because   I   had   both   a   booster   vax   and   had   just   recovered   from   it.   But   anyways,   good   to   know   that   you   uh   you   dodged   um   I   dodged   it   all.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>30:32</time>
      <p>
          And   I&#39;m   planning   to   get   my   bivalent   or   whatever   fourth   shot   booster   before   I   make   my   next   round   of   travel.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>30:38</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   yeah.   I   think   those   are   those   became   available   recently   in   Canada   as   well.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>30:43</time>
      <p>
          Um   yeah,   I   should   get   that   whenever   I   we   have   still   like   two   or   three   max   mass   vaccination   sites   set   up,   and   I   thought   that   our   state   had   like   shut   them   down.   I   guess   they   had   shut   down   not   the   vaccination   sites,   but   they   had   shut   down   the   mass   testing   centers,   is   what   they   had   done   here.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>31:00</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>31:01</time>
      <p>
          And   so   I&#39;m   like,   well,   I   don&#39;t   know,   how   hard   is   it   to   get   an   appointment   or   whatever?   So   I   go   and   look   and   it&#39;s   like,   which   vaccine   would   you   like?   And   it   full   drop-down   box.   Like,   uh,   I   think   I&#39;ll   take   the   bivalent   from   Pfizer.   And   they&#39;re   like,   okay,   go   to   this   location   and   see   if   there&#39;s   any   bookings   available.   And   I   look,   and   there&#39;s   four   spots   available   every   single   hour   of   every   single   day.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>31:23</time>
      <p>
          So   how   times   have   changed.   Uh   I&#39;m   not   sure   if   that   was   the   case   in   the   States,   but   in   Canada,   I   mean,   trying   to   get   a   vaccine.   I   remember   having   like   six   browsers   across   two   computers   and   like   hitting   F5.   And   I   tried   writing   a   script   at   one   point,   but   it   just   wasn&#39;t.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>31:40</time>
      <p>
          I   think   we   talked   about   trying   to   get   you   to   Colorado   because   Yeah,   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>31:43</time>
      <p>
          That   actually   had   so   that   was   super   kind   of   you.   Uh   I   had,   I   can&#39;t   remember   what   it   was   if   I   tweeted   or   something   came   up   and   I   just   or   not,   that&#39;s   what   had   happened   is   it   I   was   attending   one   of   the   virtual   previously   North   Denver   C   meetups,   and   I   had   had   my   first   vaccine   and   was   trying   to   get   my   second   one.   But   like   basically   the   way   I   was   in   some   weird   postal   code,   which   is   the   equivalent   of   a   zip   code   in   the   States,   where   like   I   didn&#39;t   qualify   for   vaccines,   and   so   every   once   in   a   while   this   account   would   tweet   say   that   we   have   like   800   spots.   If   you   go   to   this   link   now,   you   can   get   like   a   sign   up,   but   they&#39;d   be   gone   in   like   three   minutes   from   the   time.   Right.   Anyways,   you   had   offered,   I&#39;d   said,   Oh,   maybe   I   should   just   come   down   because   you   were   saying   at   the   time   they   were   you   could   walk   into   any   sort   of   Rexel   or   um   Walgreens.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>32:26</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   not   Rexel   here,   but   yeah,   you   could   walk   into   basically   any   drugstore,   any   pharmacy,   anyone   that   had   a   pharmacy,   and   just   walk   up   and   get   a   shot   at   that.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>32:36</time>
      <p>
          No   health   card   or   or   anything,   or   I&#39;m   not   sure   I   guess   you   don&#39;t   have   health   cards   in   Canada   or   in   the   States,   but   like   you   don&#39;t   need   to   show   anything.   They&#39;ll   just   be   like,   which   one   do   you   want?   Is   this   your   second   third?   What&#39;d   you   have   before?   And   that&#39;s   it.   Yeah.   And   I   almost   pulled   the   trigger   on   that.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>32:48</time>
      <p>
          Uh   it&#39;s   not   quite   that.   So   we   had   we   had   all   the   backups   that   you   all   had,   but   you   know,   like   a   month   before   you   did,   or   something   like   that.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>32:58</time>
      <p>
          Right.   Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>32:59</time>
      <p>
          And   then   by   the   time   you   were   trying   to   get   your   second   shot,   it   was   now   super   easy   here.   But   now   the   vaccines   are   not   quite   as   free-flowing   as   they   were.   You   do   have   to   make   an   appointment   again   and   make   sure   you   have   a   slot.   And   I   think   it&#39;s   more   just   about   managing   inventory   than   it   is   about   actual   availability.   Like   they   don&#39;t   want   to   defrost   a   bunch   and   throw   them   away   or   whatever.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>33:20</time>
      <p>
          Right.   Anyways,   I   guess   the   moral   is   everyone   should   go   get   their   shots.   Uh,   they   definitely   and   also,   too,   a   side   benefit,   I   was   never   a   big   fan   of   needles,   and   I   mean   still   I&#39;m   not,   but   there&#39;s   a   couple   times   now   where   I&#39;ve   had   to   get   uh   uh   tetanus   shot   for   whatever   reason   and   uh   you   know   some   freezing   for   dental   work,   and   now   I&#39;m   just   like,   oh   yeah,   like   vaccines   are   great,   you   know?   Like   that&#39;s   just   uh   the   more   the   mare,   you   know.   It&#39;s   uh   I   used   to   sort   of   be   concerned   going   in,   and   now   it&#39;s   just   like   I   remember   that   after   getting   the   first   vaccine,   I   was   in   such   a   good   mood.   Like   I   think   I   ran,   I   ran   a   couple   kilometers   there   and   then   got   the   shot   and   then   continued   to   run   whatever   however   many   more.   And   I   was   just   I   felt   like   invincible.   I   was   like,   oh   yeah,   I   got   this   vaccine.   And   uh   like   some   people   were   saying   it   knocked   them   out   for   a   few   days,   and   I   was,   oh   man,   it   it   it   like   uh   it   was   like   a   booster   in   terms   of   my   mood,   and   I   felt   like   I   was   a   superhero   because   I   there   was   just   so   much   anxiety   around   being   able   to   go   out,   and   um,   it&#39;s   just   a   and   it   was   you   know,   it&#39;s   only   the   first   one   of   two,   and   you   you   you   get   even   more   invincible,   quote   unquote,   you   know,   after   the   second   one.   But   just   I   don&#39;t   know.   I   I   had   a   very   good   experience,   you   know,   it   felt   like   someone   punched   me   in   the   shoulder   a   little   bit,   but   other   than   that,   I   was   like,   oh,   right,   I   can   go   take   on   the   world   again   and   you   know   go   and   hang   out   in   someone&#39;s   backyard   and   feel   that   much   less   anxious   about   you   know   um   ending   up   ill.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>34:34</time>
      <p>
          I   kind   of   had   a   similar-ish   experience   on   my   second   shot,   you   know,   it   was   like   uh   12   hours   or   whatever   before   the   symptoms   hit   me   from   the   actual   shot,   and   then   I   was   like   knocked   out   for   12   hours   pretty   hard.   But   then   on   the   like   third   morning   or   the   second   morning,   the   third   day   after   the   second   shot,   I   woke   up   and   like,   I   felt   great.   And   I   went   on   like   the   best   run   I   had   gone   on   in   like   a   year,   like   so   bizarre.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>35:04</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   yeah,   it&#39;s   uh   yeah,   folks   folks   haven&#39;t   gotten   their   shots.   You   listen   to   those   stories   and   go   get   your   your   superhero   superhero   status.   Um   Tune   in   next   week   for   part   three   of   this   three   part   interview   with   Jason.   Thanks   for   listening.   We   hope   you   enjoyed   and   have   a   great   day.
      </p>