

        <cite>Jared Santo (Clip)</cite>
      <time>0:00</time>
      <p>
          I   think   there&#39;s   a   lot   of   cool   stuff   that&#39;s   gonna   happen   that   we   just   can&#39;t   see   because   we&#39;re   held   back   by   the   bounds   of   the   past.
      </p>

        <cite>Steve Yegge (Clip)</cite>
      <time>0:06</time>
      <p>
          Well   you   asked   what&#39;s   the   point,   Jared?   Yes,   what&#39;s   the   point   of   all   our   work?   And   the   point   is   everything   gets   better.   Just   like   when   I   look   back   to   when   I   was   a   kid,   like   in   the   70s,   you   know,   it   was   really   crammy   and   everything   was   just   really   crammy   and   boring.   Right?   And   now   everything&#39;s   really   bright   and   shiny   and   fun.   This   today   is   gonna   look   like   the   70s   in   about   10   years.   Gosh.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>0:36</time>
      <p>
          Welcome   to   ADSP   The   Podcast,   episode   238,   recorded   on   June   11th,   2025.   My   name   is   Connor,   and   today   is   another   very   short   solo   podcast   episode   pointing   you   towards   some   other   podcasts   that   have   been   talking   about   AI,   LLMs,   and   more.   So,   as   some   of   you   know,   I   listen   to   a   ton   of   podcasts,   and   recently   there   were   three   podcasts,   all   roughly   plus   or   minus,   on   the   same   topic,   which   was   AI,   LLMs,   and   the   discourse   around   them   and   the   change   that   is   coming   because   of   them.   And   with   this   podcast,   I   basically   want   to   point   you   at   all   three   of   these   podcast   episodes   across   the   three   different   podcasts,   because   I   think   you   should   go   listen   to   them.   Specifically,   one   of   them   in   particular,   which   is   one   of   the   most   recent   podcasts   from   the   Changelog   Podcast.   I   imagine   a   certain   percentage   of   the   listeners   of   ADSP   are   aware   of   this.   They   recently   had   on   Steve   Yeegi,   I   believe   it   was   on   June   6th,   so   just   a   few   days   ago,   and   he   was   on   for   an   hour   and   a   half   talking   about   vibe   coding,   the   death   of   the   IDE,   and   more.   And   there&#39;s   this   clip   right   from   the   tail   end   of   the   podcast,   which   I&#39;ll   play   now.
      </p>

        <cite>Jared Santo (Clip)</cite>
      <time>2:03</time>
      <p>
          I   think   there&#39;s   a   lot   of   cool   stuff   that&#39;s   gonna   happen   that   we   just   can&#39;t   see   because   we&#39;re   held   back   by   the   bounds   of   the   past.
      </p>

        <cite>Steve Yegge (Clip)</cite>
      <time>2:09</time>
      <p>
          Well,   you   asked   what&#39;s   the   point,   Jared.   You   ask   what&#39;s   the   point   of   all   our   work?   And   the   point   is   everything   gets   better.   Just   like   when   I   look   back   to   when   I   was   a   kid,   like   in   the   70s,   you   know,   it   was   really   crammy,   and   everything   was   just   really   crammy   and   boring.   Right?   And   now   everything&#39;s   really   bright   and   shiny   and   fun.   This   today   is   gonna   look   like   the   70s   in   about   10   years.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>2:31</time>
      <p>
          And   this   is   something   that   I   have   been   talking   to   friends,   family,   my   partner,   my   fiance   about.   And   I   I   think   I&#39;ve   said   this   on   the   podcast   before.   My   dad&#39;s   a   journalist,   and   he   went   from   doing   investigative   reporting   basically   by   going   to   different   libraries.   I   grew   up   in   a   small   town   in   northern   British   Columbia   called   Prince   George.   There   is   the   public,   the   Prince   George   Public   Library,   but   then   there&#39;s   also   two   different   libraries   uh   via   the   colleges   and   universities.   There&#39;s   the   UNBC   Library   and   the   College   of   New   Caledonia   Library.   Shout   out   to   the   education   institutions   of   Prince   George.   And   I   have   memories   of   going   along   with   my   father   to   all   three   of   these   different   libraries   because   they   had   different   books   and   you   could   do   different   types   of   research   based   on   these   books.   That&#39;s   how   investigative   reporting   used   to   be   done.   I   remember   one   time,   I   think   it   was   at   CNC,   the   local   college,   he   had   these   like   microfilms,   and   you&#39;d   have   to   pull   them,   get   the   you   know,   librarians   to   pull   them   up   from   the   back,   and   then   you   had   these   machines,   and   you&#39;d   be   right,   you&#39;d   be   reading,   you   know,   old   newspapers   on   microfilms.   Anyways,   I   don&#39;t   fully   understand   it.   The   point   being   is   that   like   you&#39;d   have   to   go   around   to   these   different   places   and   get   different   resources   because   the   internet   was   not   a   thing.   And   over   my   father&#39;s   career,   how   he   did   his   job   completely   changed.   And   and   I   remember   him   telling   me   that   like   when   Google,   you   know,   first   became   a   thing   that   you   could   actually   use   usefully,   it   just   completely   up-ended   the   way   that   he   did   his   job.   And   he&#39;s   never   looked   back.   The   point   being   is   that   over   a   decade,   a   couple   decades,   the   landscape   of   how   certain   professions,   you   know,   do   their   job,   it&#39;s   unrecognizable.   And   that   clip   that   you   know   uh   Steve   is   basically   saying   there,   uh,   I   couldn&#39;t   agree   more.   Like,   I   don&#39;t   think   we   can   begin   to   fathom   how   different   the   world   is   going   to   look   in   a   decade.   And   that   is   both   exciting   and   scary.   Anyways,   I   just   I   think   people   should   start   taking   there&#39;s   a   there&#39;s   a   lot   of   skeptics   out   there,   which   is   what   the   the   second   two   podcasts   are   talking   more   about.   And   I   think   if   you   if   you   listen   to   this   podcast   with   Steve   Yege   on   Changelog,   you   might   be   convinced.   And   he   also   was   you   know,   he&#39;s   a   prolific   uh   writer.   He&#39;s   writing   a   book   called   Vibecoding,   which   I   don&#39;t   know   when   it&#39;s   coming   out,   but   it&#39;s   coming   out   at   some   point.   But   also   he   wrote   a   um   uh   a   very   popular   blog   post   almost   a   year   ago,   I   think   it   was   back   in   June   of   2024,   called   The   Death   of   the   Junior   Developer.   If   you   haven&#39;t   read   that,   uh   I   recommend   you   go   read   that   as   well.   Interesting   kind   of   to   read   it   having   had   like   a   year   uh   pass   as   well,   because   at   the   time,   you   know,   the   LLM   models   that   were   out   were   um   a   lot   less   capable   than   the   different   uh   models   today,   such   as   Claude   4.   The   two   other   podcast   episodes   that   I   quickly   want   to   mention   are   one   from   Oxide   and   Friends,   which   I   believe   came   out   on   June   4th,   so   just   a   couple   days   before   the   changelog   episode   with   Steve   Yeegi.   Um   this   is   a   podcast   by   Adam   Leventhal   and   Brian   Cantrell,   and   they   and   other   people   from   time   to   time.   And   they   had   on   Steve   Klabnick,   who   some   of   you   will   know   is   the   co-author   of   the   Rust   Programming   Language   book,   uh,   as   well   as   a   number   of   other   things,   current   employee   of   Oxide.   And   this   Steve,   well,   we&#39;ll   refer   to   him   as   Klavnik   to   uh   disambiguate   between   Steve   Yeaggi.   Klabnick   wrote   a   blog   entry   recently   called   I   Am   Disappointed   in   the   AI   discourse,   just   basically   saying   how   there&#39;s   like   two   groups   of   people,   people   that   are   super   pro-AI,   and   that   people   that   are   like   it   complete   say   that   it   completely   doesn&#39;t   work.   And   he&#39;s   basically   lamenting   on   how   it&#39;s   impossible   to   have   productive   conversations   with   these   groups   of   folks   because   they&#39;re   kind   of   at   odds   with   each   other.   That   was   basically   part   one   of   a   two-part   podcast,   which   part   two   happened   on   a   different   podcast   called   the   Fall   Through   Podcast.   And   if   I   didn&#39;t   mention   Oxide   and   Friends   is   the   name   of   the   podcast   that   the   Oxide   folks   do,   Brian   and   Adam.   And   the   Fall   Through   Podcast   is   the   reincarnation   of   the   GoTime   podcast,   which   is   not   a   podcast   that   I   actually   really   listened   to   until   the   tail   end   of   it,   and   they   were   winding   that   down.   It   used   to   be   a   podcast   in   the   changelog   cinematic   universe   of   podcasts.   There&#39;s   a   ton   of   different   ones.   Um,   Ship   It,   I   think,   is   one   of   them.   Brain   Time,   I   think   at   one   point   was   one   of   the   Changelog   podcasts.   Anyways,   the   Changelog   podcast   is   the   flagship   podcast   of   that   cinematic   universe   of   podcasts.   They   used   to   have   one   called   Go   Time,   JS   Party,   that&#39;s   another   big   one.   Uh   GoTime   got   wound   down,   and   the   folks   behind   that,   I   think   some   of   them   went   and   created   the   Fall   Through   podcast,   and   they   on   Monday,   which   I   believe   is   June   8th,   June   9th,   just   a   couple   days   ago,   basically   had   on   Steve   Klabnick   as   well   to   continue   the   conversation   that   happened   on   the   Oxide   and   Friends   podcast.   So   uh   it&#39;s   just   interesting   to   hear   that.   I   I   think   it&#39;s   a   very   interesting   conversation   in   2025,   June   2025,   that   is,   and   it   will   continue   to   be   an   interesting   conversation,   regardless   of   your   thoughts   on   AI,   LLMs,   how   it&#39;s   going   to   affect   the   world.   We&#39;ll   leave   it   there.   Go   check   those   podcasts   out.   We&#39;ve   got   Changelog,   we&#39;ve   got   Oxide   and   Friends,   and   we&#39;ve   got   Fall   Through.   And   if   you   don&#39;t   want   to   check   the   podcasts   out,   just   listen   to   those   episodes   individually,   and   then   forget   that   those   podcasts   exist   if   you   want.   And   I   will   link,   you   know,   all   of   those   in   the   description   in   the   show   notes,   as   well   as   the   blog   post   that   Steve   Yeegi   uh   wrote   a   year   ago   and   the   blog   that   Steve   Klavnik   wrote   just   a   few   days   ago.   Be   sure   to   check   these   show   notes   either   in   your   podcast   app   or   at   adsphepodcast.com   for   links   to   anything   we   mentioned   in   today&#39;s   episode,   as   well   as   a   link   to   a   GitHub   discussion   where   you   can   leave   thoughts,   comments,   and   questions.   Thanks   for   listening.   We   hope   you   enjoyed   and   have   a   great   day.   Low   quality,   high   quality,   that   is   the   tagline   of   our   podcast.   That&#39;s   not   the   tagline.   Our   tagline   is   chaos   with   sprinkles   of   information.
      </p>