

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>0:00</time>
      <p>
          So   you   got   me,   you   got   AI.   You&#39;re   good.   Yeah   that&#39;s   all   we   that&#39;s   all   we   need.   That&#39;s   all   we   need.   And   you   talking   about   AI.   That&#39;s   the   third   pillar   right   there.   Welcome   to   ADSP   the   podcast,   episode   251,   recorded   on   August   21st,   2025.   My   name   is   Connor,   and   today   with   my   co-host   Bryce,   we   interview   Sean   Parent.   This   is   part   four   of   a   four-part   conversation.   You   heard   part   three   last   week.   We&#39;re   doing   part   four   this   week,   and   then   you&#39;ll   hear   the   first   two   parts   in   the   next   two   episodes.   In   this   episode,   we   chat   with   Sean   about   his   upcoming   keynote   talk   at   C   under   the   C.   You   are   going   to   be   keynoting   uh   in   T   minus   a   month.   Um   I   don&#39;t   think   they&#39;ve   announced   the   other   speakers   yet.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>0:58</time>
      <p>
          No,   they   have   not.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>0:59</time>
      <p>
          They   have   not.   So   tell   us   briefly   what   you&#39;ll   be   chatting   about,   and   I   think   the   dates   are   like   October   9th   and   10th.   So   if   folks   are   in   uh   Europe   or   close   or   are   willing   to   fly   to   the   Netherlands,   uh   you   can   go   see   Sean&#39;s   talk.   This   is   current   Connor,   while   he   is   editing   this   episode,   which   we   recorded   on   August   21st.   And   since   we   recorded,   Bryce   and   I   both   had   our   talks   accepted   to   C   under   the   sea.   So   not   only   can   you   go   and   see   Sean   and   get   to   chat   with   him   at   C   Under   the   Sea,   Bryce   and   I   will   also   be   there.   So   if   you&#39;re   not   gonna   be   near   or   close   to   Copenhagen   or   in   Norway   for   NDC   Tech   Town,   we   will   also   be   in   Breda,   Netherlands   on   October   9th   and   10th.   Back   to   Sean.   But   yeah,   what   are   you   gonna   be   talking   about?
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>1:49</time>
      <p>
          Uh   I&#39;m   gonna   uh   repeat   the   talk   that   I   just   gave   at   C   Now,   uh,   which   is   uh   titled   Are   We   There   Yet?   And   the   title   comes   from   a   talk   I   gave   um   uh   uh   at   the   very   first,   it   was   a   keynote   at   the   very   first   BoostCon   pre-C   Now.   And   there&#39;s   an   online   recording   of   it   because   I   also   gave   it   at   uh   Google   as   a   Google   Tech   Talk   in   I   don&#39;t   know   what   year   it   was.   So   I   would   have   to   look   it   up,   2007,   something   like   that.   Uh   and   that   that   talk   was   titled   A   Possible   Future   of   Software   Development.   And   basically   what   it   laid   out   at   the   time   was   that   there   was   a   huge   reduction   possible   if   we   moved   to   generic   programming,   kind   of   Stepanov   style   generic   programming,   and   we   start   writing   code   in   terms   of   algebraic   structures   so   that   it   can   be   commonly   used,   and   that   gets   rid   of   a   lot   of   the   write   and   rewrite   and   rewrite   and   rewrite   and   rewrite   the   same   implementation   of   an   algorithm,   and   actually   leads   to   code   reuse   where   object-oriented   programming   had   that   promise,   but   it   was   never   fulfilled.   And   then   started   to   look   at   where   do   we   go   from   here,   and   the   idea   of   where   we   go   from   here   is   what   I   refer   to   as   declarative   forms,   this   notion   of   you   should   be   able   to   state   your   intent   around   how   a   program   is   is   constructed,   right?   So   you   so   you   basically   you   define   things   structurally,   and   the   computer   figures   out   what   the   right   data   structures   and   algorithms   are   to   use   to   use   to   realize   that.   And   I   showed   a   demo   at   the   time   of   uh   of   property   models   and   uh   a   UI   layout   library   that   I   had   at   the   time.   Um   I   think   the   property   model   work   is   still   somewhat   unique   in   the   industry.   I&#39;ve   published   a   number   of   papers   on   it   with   Yanko   Yarve.   Uh   so   those   are   all   linked   on   my   on   my   website.   Layout   libraries   at   the   time,   you   know,   the   it   was   known   as   Eve,   had   quite   a   unique   set   of   capabilities.   I   think   less   so   now.   There&#39;s   a   couple   of   unique   capabilities   it   has.   It   can   it   can   do   cross-hierarchy   alignment   easily   where   where   other   layout   engines   don&#39;t.   Uh   uh,   but   that   was   kind   of   a   take   on   it.   And   and   um   uh   so   this   talk   kind   of   revisits   so   revisits   that.   Uh   uh   how   far   is   generic   programming   come   in   in   the   last   20   years?   Uh   the   answer   is   a   lot.   Um   uh   nobody   knew   what   it   was   20   years   ago,   and   now   it&#39;s   uh   a   significant   part   of   all   the   major   languages.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>4:22</time>
      <p>
          It   it   is   amazing   to   think   about   that   just   20   years   ago   how   different   the   software   industry   was   in   that   way.   Because   it&#39;s   something   that   we   take   that   Connor   and   I   think   take   for   granted   because   we   sort   of   grew   up   in   that   environment.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>4:35</time>
      <p>
          Yep.   Yep.   Yep.   I   think   there   are   still   things   that   uh   uh   uh   the   industry   gets   wrong   about   generic   programming.   So   I&#39;ll   touch   on   some   of   those.   Uh,   you   know,   and   then   this   notion   of   how   do   we   get   to   declarative   forms,   right?   Uh,   you   know,   at   one   point   this   idea,   it&#39;s   not   unique   to   me,   was   referred   to   as   like   fourth   generation   languages   and   prologue   kind   of   being   the   canonical   example.   Um   and   I   think   the   idea   was   right,   but   all   of   these   systems   have   failed   for   for   a   number   of   reasons.   And   so   let&#39;s   look   at   kind   of   the   reasons   why   this   tact   has   failed   in   the   past.   And   uh   can   we   take   another   stab   at   it   and   and   maybe   go   in   a   different   direction.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>5:18</time>
      <p>
          Do   you   think   that   the   that   the   um   do   you   think   that   declarative   languages   like   that   are   more   relevant   these   days   because   of   AI?
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>5:26</time>
      <p>
          I   think   potentially   they   are.   Like   one   of   the   things   that   I&#39;m   looking   at   in   my   current   work   is   is   how   do   I   expose   the   structure   directly   to   the   AI?   Another   group   at   Adobe   has   been   doing   work   on   on   a   similar   area.   And   uh   that   gets   really   interesting.   It   means   that   you&#39;re   you   know   you   can   have   your   your   AI   build   features   that   weren&#39;t   there   under   the   hood,   right?   Right?   They   can   they   can   play   with   the   Lego   blocks,   if   you   will,   uh,   you   know,   more   at   a   user   level   than   at   a   at   a   at   a   raw   coding   level.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>6:00</time>
      <p>
          What   wasn&#39;t   wasn&#39;t   Prologue   like   originally   developed   by   an   AI   lab   back   in   the   70s?
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>6:08</time>
      <p>
          Uh   you   know,   I   do   not   know   that.   I   would   have   to   look   that   up.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>6:12</time>
      <p>
          Uh   uh   certainly   it&#39;s   got   early   AI   uh   It   was   it   was   created   around   1972   by   some   guy   from   the   University   of   France   and   their   their   artificial   intelligence   group.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>6:25</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   Uh   so   yeah,   so   I   think   these   things   connect   well   to   AI   and   I   think   uh   uh   potentially   solve   a   lot   of   the   problems   of   AI.   And   you   know   what   my   goal   is   is   to   say   that   you   know   you   want   to   build   a   set   of   domain-specific   languages   as   well   that   all   interoperate,   uh   as   well   as   the   infrastructure   to   define   new   languages   within   that,   within   that   family.   Um   and   each   of   the   languages,   the   goal   should   be   to   solve   a   particular   class   of   problems   well   and   to   be   as   provable   as   possible.   And   so,   like   one   of   the   attributes   of   the   layout   system   that   I   did,   it&#39;s   a   constraint-based   system,   but   you   can   neither   over-constrain   it   nor   under-constrain   it.   Any   layout   that   you   describe,   it   will   give   a   layout.   And   I   tried   to   do   the   same   with   property   models   and   fell   a   little   bit   short.   Uh   uh   there   is   a   model   checker   where   if   you   run   the   model   checker   and   it   succeeds,   then   you   know   that   there&#39;s   a   solution   for   any   set   of   values   that   you   feed   into   the   system.   Um   the   problem   is   20   years   ago   at   the   time,   I   did   kind   of   a   back-of-the-envelope   proof   of   the   complexity   of   the   model   checker   and   and   said,   uh   it   looks   like   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   n   log   n-ish,   something   like   that.   I   recently   pulled   up   those   notes   and   found   several   mistakes,   and   it&#39;s   like,   no,   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   n   choose   m   m-ish,   which   is   a   whole   different   code.   So,   so   it&#39;s   probably   only   reasonable   to   fully   model   check   things   at   a   a   small   scale.   So   I&#39;m   looking   at   uh   how   how   do   you   build   a   system   that   can   do   do   a   better   job   at   model   checking   above   that.   But   yeah,   you   know,   I   think   if   you   you   know,   when   you   write   code,   if   you&#39;ve   ever   had   the   sense   of   I&#39;m   writing   kind   of   the   same   thing   again,   right?   Right,   I&#39;m   solving   a   similar   problem   that   falls   into   a   family   of   problems   I&#39;ve   had   before.   Uh   uh,   then   this   notion   of   how   do   you   back   up   and   how   do   you   describe   that   class   of   problems   and   how   do   you   get   to   the   point   where   you   can   solve   it   once   gets   interesting.   Uh   uh   so   that&#39;s   the   direction   of   the   talk.   Uh   I&#39;m   hoping   to   get   a   demo   together   of   my   new   work   right   now.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>8:42</time>
      <p>
          There&#39;s   I   could   show   a   bunch   of   Rust   code,   but   it&#39;s   not   uh   So   wait,   wait,   to   be   clear,   your   plan   for   your   keynote   at   the   C   conference   is   to   show   a   bunch   of   Rust   code.   I   mean,   I   I&#39;m   not   saying   that&#39;s   inappropriate.   I   just   want   to   be   clear.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>8:55</time>
      <p>
          My   plan   is   hopefully   to   show   a   demo   of   a   of   a   of   a   small   slice   of   a   functioning   system.   Uh   if   I   were   to,   you   know,   the   closest   I   could   give   right   now   is   be   like,   oh,   look   at   all   this   Rust   code   I&#39;ve   written.   And   if   I   run   it   on   the   command   line,   it   puts   out   these   numbers,   which   are   somewhat   interesting   to   me.   Um   so   so   if   I&#39;m   only   at   that   point   still,   it   I   I   won&#39;t   give   a   demo.   It   wouldn&#39;t   be   interesting.   You   know,   I   could   give   a   demo   at   a   Rust   conference   and   talk   about   the   structure   of   the   code,   and   that   might   be   interesting,   but   not   as   a   COVID.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>9:24</time>
      <p>
          I   I   have   learned   that   running   concurrently   with   uh   uh   CBP   under   the   sea,   there   is   a   big   AI   conference   in   Amsterdam.   I   can&#39;t   remember   the   name,   World   AI   Summit   Amsterdam   maybe   is   the   interesting   yes,   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   on   the   8th   and   the   9th.   So   uh   so   yeah,   there&#39;s   some   some   potential   crossover   there.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>9:51</time>
      <p>
          Yep.   And   then   um   you   know   for   your   European   listeners,   uh   before   C   under   the   sea,   um   uh   Sergei   Platinoff   uh   has   invited   me   to   do   a   meetup,   and   so   I   will   do   probably   the   same   talk   in   person   in   a   meetup   uh   in   Zurich.   Stop   by   Zurich   uh   on   my   way   to   on   my   way   to   the   Netherlands.   Uh   for   people   who   don&#39;t   know   Sergei,   he&#39;s   the   person   who   started   C   Russia.   And   when   the   Russian-Ukraine   war   broke   out,   uh   his   wife   is   Ukrainian   and   he   he   fled   the   country   and   now   lives   in   Zurich.   Um   which   was   very   sad.   The   day   before   the   the   war   broke   out,   he   sent   me   uh   an   an   invite   to   speak   at   C   Russia   again.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>10:48</time>
      <p>
          Uh-uh.   That   was   a   good   conference.   It&#39;s   it&#39;s   a   shame.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>10:52</time>
      <p>
          Yes.   The   the   reason   though   I   was   saying   that   is   it   uh   we   had   such   a   blast   uh   at   C   on   C   I   want   to   say   it   was   2023   at   this   point,   uh   because   I   Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>11:07</time>
      <p>
          Was   it   2023?   I   think   it   must   have   been,   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>11:11</time>
      <p>
          It   was   either   it   was   either   it   definitely   wasn&#39;t   this   year.   So   it   was   either   24   or   23.   But   anyways,   it   was   a   blast   recording   in   person,   you   know,   during   the   dinner   or   post-dinner   and   uh   if   it&#39;s   not   it&#39;s   C   under   the   C.   We   will   try   to   have   to   make   that   happen   in   person   again,   because   as   as   fun   as   it   I   mean,   this   was   amazing   to   be   honest.   Uh   you&#39;ve   I   don&#39;t   know   how   you&#39;ve   managed   to   bundle   so   many   uh   like   internet   happy   topics.   We&#39;ve   got   Rust   versus   C.   We&#39;ve   got   AI,   and   we&#39;ve   got   like   the   dystopic   or   utopic   future   that   lays   ahead   for   us,   uh,   should   people   be   worried   or   not.   Um   so   this   is   just   gonna   be   banger   after   banger.   Um   but   yeah,   as   fun   as   this   was,   we&#39;re   uh   we   will   have   to   try   to   do   this   again   in   person   at   some   point,   um,   whether   at   a   conference   or   I&#39;m   sure   Bryce   and   I   um   will   be   in   Santa   Clara   at   some   point   at   the   same   time.   The   problem   is   we   usually   go   at   different   times   because   we&#39;re   on   different   teams.   Um   but   maybe   next   year   at   GTC   uh   if   you&#39;re   gonna   be   there   and   I&#39;m   gonna   be   there.   You   live   in   the   era,   Sean.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>12:10</time>
      <p>
          So   Yeah,   I   know   Bryce   was   like   at   the   most   recent   GTC   and   I&#39;ve   actually   been   to   California   like   after   the   fact.   I&#39;m   like,   I&#39;m   a   block   away.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>12:22</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   I   I&#39;ve   actually   been   to   California   like   six   times   since   then,   but   I&#39;ve   just   it&#39;s   been   the   travel&#39;s   been   so   crazy   this   year   that   it&#39;s   all   it&#39;s   been   like   all   all   work.   Um   I   haven&#39;t   had   I   haven&#39;t   had   any   spare   time.   Yeah.   But   uh   but   yeah,   I&#39;m   sure   we&#39;ll   I   mean   I   I   suspect   we&#39;ll   both   be   at   GTC   this   year,   Connor,   hopefully.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>12:41</time>
      <p>
          Hopefully.   I   mean   GTC   has   become   like,   you   know,   I   don&#39;t   know.   What&#39;s   the   what&#39;s   the   comparison   of   like   some   Epcot   Center   Disneyland   or   not   even   Disneyland,   Disney   World,   like   they   rent   out   half   of   San   Jose.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>12:53</time>
      <p>
          I   couldn&#39;t   even   get   into   the   keynote   last   year.   I   was   uh   I   was   less   like,   oh   yeah,   I&#39;ll   just   show   up   like   a   couple   minutes   beforehand.   There   was   like   a   line   around   around   the   block,   it   was   uh   I&#39;ll   I&#39;ll   tell   one   last   story,   then   we&#39;ll   then   we&#39;ll   be   done.   Back   in   2017,   when   I   was   still   at   Berkeley   Lab,   I   was   thinking   about   coming   to   NVIDIA,   and   um   I   always   like   to   so   so   in   in   the   Jewish   religion,   if   you   want   to   convert   to   Judaism,   the   rabbi   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   not   supposed   to   not   be   easy   to   convert,   and   the   rabbi   is   supposed   to   tell   you   no   the   first   two   times.   And   then   if   you   come   back   and   you   come   back   the   third   time   and   you   say,   Yeah,   I   want   to   convert,   then   he&#39;s   like,   All   right,   all   right,   you   can   convert.   And   so   when   I   when   I   was   in   this   process   looking   for   a   new   job,   I   approached   Olivier,   my   old   mentor   at   NVIDIA,   and   the   first   time   he   was   like,   Oh,   I&#39;m   not   sure   if   you&#39;d   like   it   here   coming   from   academia,   and   the   second   time   he&#39;s   like,   Oh,   I&#39;m   not   sure   where   we&#39;d   put   you.   And   then   like   eventually   I   went   and   I   asked   him   the   third   time.   But   in   between,   in   between   the   the   second   and   the   third   time,   um,   because   I   I   I   was   sort   of   entranced   to   come   to   NVIDIA   by   Olivier,   Michael,   and   Jared,   because   they   were   I   just   I   they   were   the   people   they   were   a   small   delegation   in   the   C   committee   compared   to   Google   or   Microsoft,   but   they   seemed   to   get   so   much   more   stuff   done   and   be   so   sharp.   And   Olivier   just   loved   talking   passionately   about   the   chip   he   was   designing   and   why   GPUs   were   superior   to   CPUs   for   compute   workloads.   And   I   was   very   convinced   coming   from   the   CPU   SIMD   world.   I   I   was   I   bought   I   bought   what   he   was   telling   me,   and   he   he   kept   hinting   that   they   were   gonna   launch   a   very   cool   chip   at   GTC.   And   so   I   I   decided   I   was   gonna   go   down   for   GTC   2017   uh   for   the   keynote   day.   Uh   so   like   I   woke   up   at   like   6   a.m.   and   I   drove   down   from   Berkeley   um   to   uh   uh   Santa   Clara   and   this   was   when   it   was   still   in   the   convention   center   before   it   had   to   go   to   the   stadium.   And   I   um   I   I   guess   I   was   still   pricey   even   then   because   uh   I   get   I   get   to   the   the   entrance   and   they&#39;re   letting   people   in   and   I   see   a   line   for   like   uh   a   press.   And   I&#39;m   just   like,   what   the   heck?   I&#39;ll   just   go   in   the   press   line.   And   they   didn&#39;t   check   any   IDs   or   anything,   and   they   took   everybody   in   the   press   lines,   got   to   go   up   to   like   the   front   row.   And   so   I   was   in   the   front   row   of   the   GTC   2017   keynote   uh   when   Jensen   launched   Volta,   launched   TensorCores,   like   that.   That   was   like   a   huge   monumental   GTC,   and   that   was   the   launch   of   Volta,   which   was   like   a   paradigm   shift   in   GPUs   for   us.   Um,   and   I   was   just   there   in   the   first   row   live   tweeting,   and   it   sort   of   blew   up   my   Twitter   because   I   was   able   to   get   all   these   good   pictures   because   everybody   else   was   at   least   10   rows   behind   because   they   had   all   these   spots   reserved   for   the   press   people.   Um   and   then   I   went   to   go   see   Olivier&#39;s   talk,   and   uh   and   I   was   I   was   convinced   I   was   sold   I   wanted   to   go   to   NVIDIA   after   that,   and   I   uh   and   I   went   home   after.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>15:57</time>
      <p>
          And   then   I   can&#39;t   wait   to   the   the   version   of   this   story,   you   know,   in   the   next   10   years   where   like   Bryce   ends   up   behind   bars   because   he   was   overentitled   and   just   like,   oh   no,   I&#39;m   supposed   to,   hey,   hey,   hey   officer,   officer.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>16:12</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   Oh   man.   I   I   wanna   I   want   to   note   at   the   end   of   that   story   that   that   was   before   I   was   an   employee   of   NVIDIA.   So   my   misbehavior   was   perfectly   fine.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>16:23</time>
      <p>
          All   right,   well   we&#39;re   shouting   the   security   incident   now   to   uh   review   their   press   protocol.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>16:30</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m   sure   it&#39;s   uh   I&#39;m   sure   they   run   a   much   tighter   ship   now   than   than   they   used   to.   Uh   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>16:38</time>
      <p>
          Sean,   are   you   still   coming   out   to   New   York   at   all?
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>16:41</time>
      <p>
          Um   I   have   not   recently.   Um   you   know,   I   met   up   with   you   guys   last   time   I   was   there.   So   uh   uh   yeah.   Um   it   will   probably   happen   at   some   point.   Yeah,   my   organization   is   sliding   under   Titus&#39;s,   so   I&#39;m   gonna   report   through   Titus   too   here   pretty   soon.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>16:59</time>
      <p>
          I   forgot   Titus   was   at   uh   Adobe.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>17:02</time>
      <p>
          I   haven&#39;t   talked   to   him   in   forever.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>17:03</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   we   got   Titus,   we   got   Hiram,   we   got   all   the   cool   cool   kids   here.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>17:07</time>
      <p>
          Is   is   Titus   speaking   at   conferences   still?   I   haven&#39;t   seen   his   name   pop   up   recently.   Um   I&#39;ve   seen   David&#39;s   because   David   was   at   uh   C   No.   I   I&#39;ve   seen   David&#39;s   name   pop   up   a   couple   places,   but   I   haven&#39;t   seen   Titus&#39;s.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>17:20</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   yeah.   No,   I   haven&#39;t   seen   Titus   speaking   anywhere   recently.   Uh   yeah.   I   think   he&#39;s   been   he&#39;s   been   heads   down.   So   he&#39;s   he&#39;s   reluctantly   growing   his   org,   and   I   think   it&#39;s   growing   a   little   bigger,   a   little   faster   than   he   wants.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>17:34</time>
      <p>
          So   I   was   gonna   say   that&#39;s   good   news   for   the   folks   that   are   hoping,   you   know,   for   jobs   and   whatnot,   but   potentially   it&#39;s   just   all   internal   re-orgs   and   and   people   joining   his   what   do   you   call   it,   binary   or   what   is   what   do   you   call   it,   tree   that&#39;s   not   binary,   that&#39;s   uh   just   a   tree,   I   guess.   Yeah,   just   a   tree.   An   NR   tree.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>17:55</time>
      <p>
          Um   I   gotta   get   going   because   um   we   gotta   go   to   the   US   Open.   Cool.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>18:03</time>
      <p>
          Well   plug   if   you   get   it   in   for   your   listeners.   I   think   uh   career   startadobe.com.   I   do   think   Adobe   still   still   has   some   open   slots.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>18:11</time>
      <p>
          Okay,   yeah.   There   you   go.   If   you&#39;re   uh   We   will   plug   it,   we   will   plug   it.   A   new   graduate   or   not   a   new   graduate   and   uh   just   out   looking   for   a   change   or   looking   for   something   new.   Um   it   sounds   like   you   got   a   lot   of   cool   people   at   uh   Adobe.   Um   uh   regardless   of   where   you   end   up,   you&#39;ll   be   working   with   some   some   cool   folks.
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>18:30</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   Yeah,   good   company   and   happy   year.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>18:33</time>
      <p>
          Alrighty.   Thanks   so   much,   Sean.   This   has   been   an   absolute   blast.   I   I   must   will   I&#39;ll   I&#39;ll   find   it   in   after   the   fact   in   post   and   edit   in   the   person.   Someone   uh   there   was   a   couple   comments   that   I   got   on   recent   episodes.   One   of   them   was   this   is   it   was   a   a   photo,   this   is   what   the   ADSP   podcast   has   been   recently,   and   they   took   our   logo,   deleted   everything   except   for   the   A,   and   then   added   a   white   I   next   to   it.   Uh   and   then   the   other   comment   I   got   was   like,   Where&#39;s   Sean?   I   mean,   uh   it&#39;s   great   that   you   two   are   here,   but   I&#39;m   here   for   the   Sean   content.   And   I   was   like,   Oh,   that&#39;s   true.   We   haven&#39;t   had   Sean   on   in   a   while.   We   gotta   fix   that   ASAP.   And   and   so   now   we   have   done   so.   Uh,   but   we&#39;ll   make   sure   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   sooner,   whatever   the   delta   was,   it&#39;s   sooner   than   uh   than   that   amount   of   time   until   the   next   time   we   have   you   on.   So   you   got   me,   you   got   AI.   You&#39;re   good.   Yeah   that&#39;s   all   we   that&#39;s   all   we   need.   That&#39;s   all   we   need.   And   you   talking   about   AI.   That&#39;s   the   third   pillar   right   there.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>19:24</time>
      <p>
          We&#39;ll   just   we&#39;ll   just   train   a   Sean   AI   model   from   all   the   pod   past   podcasts.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>19:30</time>
      <p>
          No,   it&#39;s   not   the   same.   It&#39;s   not   although   I   would,   if   we   did   that,   we&#39;d   have   to   get   you,   Sean,   to   come   and   just   talk   to   yourself.   Then   that   would   be   that   would   be   content   worth   listening   to.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>19:40</time>
      <p>
          Um   a   discussion   with   Sean   Parent   and   Sean   Parent.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>19:47</time>
      <p>
          You   make   a   very   good   point.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>19:49</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>19:50</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   I   mean,   we&#39;re   gonna   be   living   in   a   future   soon   where,   especially   for   the   three   of   us,   we   just   point   them   at   the   episodes   and   say,   go   create   a   model.   There&#39;s   actually   a   company   I&#39;ve   heard   of   called   Delphi,   where   it&#39;s   literally   sim   very   similar   to   the   Black   Mirror   episode   where   uh   person&#39;s   partner   passes   away   and   they   feed   it   texts   and   then   emails,   and   it   gets   better   and   better,   where   somehow   they   train   a   basically   rep   a   digital   replica   of   you.   And   then   if   you&#39;re   a   busy   person,   you   can   just   go   ask   the   Delphi,   go   ask   Connor&#39;s   Delphi   first,   or   go   ask   Sean&#39;s   Delphi,   and   then   uh   you   know,   you   can   you   can   review   all   your   Delphi&#39;s   responses   pretty   quickly.   Oh,   that&#39;s   good,   good,   good,   good,   good,   just   to   make   sure   it&#39;s   doing   a   good   job.   And   so   you   basically   can   copy   yourself,   which   is   listening   to   the   podcast   about   that,   they   were   very   high   on   it,   and   it   sounded   very   creepy,   but   at   the   same   time,   you&#39;re   like,   I   guess   I   would   like   to   have   an   extra   of   me   if   we   could   get   more   work   done.   Or   like,   or   like   the   the   questions   that   you   don&#39;t   like   answering,   whether   that&#39;s   professionally,   socially,   in   your   relationship,   you   just   you   just   go   talk   to   my   Delphi   about   that,   okay?
      </p>

        <cite>Sean Parent</cite>
      <time>20:53</time>
      <p>
          There   are   certainly   a   number   of   meetings   where   I   wouldn&#39;t   mind   just,   you   know,   it&#39;s   like   my   attendance   is   required   only   because   politically   my   face   should   be   there.   And   it&#39;s   like   like   just   put   an   avatar   for   me   in   there   and   and   I&#39;ll   go   write   some   code.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>21:08</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   We&#39;ll   see.   We   might   be   living   in   that   future   soon   because   we   can   all   think   of   examples   of   that   where   yeah,   whether   it&#39;s   meetings   or   something.   Okay.   We&#39;ll   let   you   go   then,   Sean.   Uh,   thanks   so   much.   Be   sure   to   check   these   show   notes   either   in   your   podcast   app   or   at   adsphepodcast.com   for   links   to   anything   we   mentioned   in   today&#39;s   episode,   as   well   as   a   link   to   a   GitHub   discussion   where   you   can   leave   thoughts,   comments,   and   questions.   Thanks   for   listening.   We   hope   you   enjoyed   and   have   a   great   day.
      </p>

        <cite>Bryce</cite>
      <time>21:32</time>
      <p>
          Low   quality,   high   quality.   That   is   the   tagline   of   our   podcast.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>21:38</time>
      <p>
          That&#39;s   not   the   tagline.   Our   tagline   is   chaos   with   sprinkles   of   information.
      </p>