

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>0:00</time>
      <p>
          So   this   past   year,   C   online.   And   then   NDC   Toronto   was   next,   I   think.   And   then   I   went   to   NDC   Copenhagen,   not   a   C   conference.   There   was   a   lot   of   AI   content   at   that   conference   this   year.   I   have   no   idea   how   it   normally   rolls,   of   course.   It&#39;s   my   first   time   there.   And   then   C   or   ACCU   on   the   sea,   Folkestone.   And   then   was   my   next   one?   CBP   Con.   And   then   NDC   Tech   Town.   And   then   I&#39;m   going   to   C   under   the   sea   in   a   week   and   having   a   workshop   there.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>0:48</time>
      <p>
          Welcome   to   ADSP   The   Podcast,   episode   307,   recorded   on   October   7th,   2026.   My   name   is   Connor,   and   today   with   my   co-host   Ben,   we   chat   with   Jason   Turner   of   CPP   Cast.   In   part   one   of   this   three-part   conversation,   we   chat   about   C   conferences,   C   meetups,   Jason&#39;s   travels,   and   more.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>1:16</time>
      <p>
          Jason   travels   basically   all   the   time.   So   anything   else   you   can   tell   us,   Jason?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>1:25</time>
      <p>
          Wow.   Well,   maybe   we   should   start   there.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>1:27</time>
      <p>
          So   I   mean,   so   I   think   this   is   episode   307.   If   you   haven&#39;t   been   able   to   tell   by   the   title   of   the   episode,   which   you   probably   I&#39;m   probably   gonna   put   Jason&#39;s   name   in   there,   we   have   a   guest   today.   First   time   in   a   while,   and   everyone,   I   think,   that   listens   knows   who   you   are   because   you   are   long   time   and   technically,   I   don&#39;t   know   what   you   call   that,   like   a   bounce   back   host   of   CPP   cast.   You   know,   you   were   the   original   host   of   or   I   mean,   I   technically,   I   guess   there   was   a   couple   episodes   where   it   was   just   Rob.   It   was   like   five,   yeah.   Yeah,   five,   and   then   you   joined,   and   then   you   had.   Two   hundred   ninety-nine   short.   All   right.   And   then   you   stepped   away,   and   then   two   different   times   the   podcast   came   back.   There   was   um   I&#39;m   gonna   mess   this   up.   I   know   Timur   and   Phil   were   the   last   two.   Correct.   Yeah.   And   then   before   that,   I   don&#39;t   remember.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>2:25</time>
      <p>
          It   was   it   was   it   was   me   and   Rob,   and   then   it   was   Timur   and   Phil.   Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>2:28</time>
      <p>
          Or   wait,   there   wasn&#39;t   another.   I   think   there   was   a   fallow   period.   Yeah.   After   Rob   and   Jason   put   it   in   hiatus,   and   then   Phil   and   Timur   picked   it   up   for   a   while.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>2:36</time>
      <p>
          Well,   for   some   reason   I   was   thinking   that   there   was   another   change   of   hands,   but   maybe   that&#39;s   just   because   Phil   has   like   in   his   history   of   podcasting,   has   like   three   other   podcasts,   and   I&#39;m   conflating   uh   CPP   chat   and   the   other   the   other   podcasts   and   whatnot.   Anyways,   but   you&#39;ve   returned   you&#39;ve   returned   a   CPP   cast.   Currently   it&#39;s   a   monthly   cadence,   and   you   live   stream   them   on   YouTube,   and   then   you&#39;ve   also   got   not   live   stream.   Or   not   live   streamed?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>3:00</time>
      <p>
          Okay.   No,   no.   We   record   them   and   then   publish   them   on   YouTube,   not   live   streamed,   just   to   be   clear.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>3:05</time>
      <p>
          And   you&#39;re   co   you&#39;re   co-hosting   with   Mathieu   Robert.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>3:07</time>
      <p>
          Mathieu   Ropaire,   we.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>3:09</time>
      <p>
          Yes.   And   I   listened   to   the   most   recent   episode   that   dropped   a   couple   days   ago,   or   at   least   in   my   feed,   it   dropped   a   couple   days   ago.   Anyway,   so   welcome   back,   Jason.   Had   you   on   the   podcast   before,   all   the   way   back,   I   think   around   like   episode   101   or   something   like   that.   I&#39;m   not   sure   if   you&#39;ve   been   on   since   then.   I   know   we   were   co-located   in   the   same   space   a   year   ago   at   NDC   Tech   Town,   and   I   I   think   I   had   said   I   wanted   to   get   you   in   front   of   the   mic,   but   it   just   didn&#39;t   work,   which   is   a   real   shame   because   we   ended   up   stranded   on   the   way   to   was   it   Kongsberg   is   the   name   of   the   the   Yeah,   Kongsberg,   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>3:41</time>
      <p>
          Although   I   don&#39;t   know   how   the   Norwegians   pronounce   it.   I   think   it&#39;s   different   because   they   do   things   with   their   G&#39;s,   softer   G&#39;s.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>3:50</time>
      <p>
          Anyhow.   Alright,   we   apologize   to   the   the   Norwegian   folks   that   all   just   shivered   when   they   heard   my   pronunciation   of   the   the   I   won&#39;t   say   it   again,   the   city   that   hosts   NDC   Tech   Town.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>4:00</time>
      <p>
          Anyways,   it&#39;s   been   And   we   also   apologi   we   also   apologize   to   the   to   the   English   speakers   who   just   shivered   at   on   this   pronunci   pronunciation   of   pronunciation.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>4:08</time>
      <p>
          What   did   I   say?   Pronunciation?   You   said   pronunciation?
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>4:12</time>
      <p>
          Pronunciation?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>4:13</time>
      <p>
          Listen,   folks,   we&#39;re   operating   on   reduced   sleep.   I   should   get   a   lot   of   passes.   We   we&#39;ve   got   uh   we&#39;ve   got   like   contractors   in   the   basement   dealing   with   like   a   flooding   thing.   We   just   contractors.   Contractors?   Is   that   not   how   you   say   that   word   either?   Contract?
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>4:29</time>
      <p>
          It&#39;s   a   different   emphasis.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>4:31</time>
      <p>
          We   actually   don&#39;t   know   if   this   is   the   sleep   deprivation,   or   I   just   I   I   mean,   the   other   day   on   a   podcast   recording,   I   think   I   said   Pascal   when   I&#39;ve   been   reminded   by   Ben   and   other   folks   that   it&#39;s   Pascal,   not   Haskell.   It&#39;s   not   Pascal   like   Haskell,   it&#39;s   Pascal   like   Pascal.   I   don&#39;t   know   what   Pascal   rhymes   with.   Sure.   Um   anyways,   we&#39;ll   chalk   it   up   to   the   sleep   deprivation.   Uh   we   apologize   to   the   English   listeners,   and   uh   we&#39;ll   just   going   forward,   I&#39;m   sure   I&#39;m   gonna   mispronounce   a   bunch   more   words.   So   it&#39;s   been   a   number   of   episodes.   Have   you   been,   Jason?   And   then   we   will   we&#39;ll   jump   into   the   topics   that   we&#39;re   gonna   we&#39;re   chat   about.   Cppcon,   some   talks   you   give   him.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>5:06</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   I&#39;m   doing   fine.   I   I   don&#39;t   even   know   after   that   intro   when   it   was   that   we   were   that   I   was   last   on   the   podcast   to   try   to   catch   anyone   up   on   anything,   but   I   mean,   my   life   hasn&#39;t,   from   the   perspective   of   the   listeners,   my   life   has   changed   very   little   because   I   am   still   doing   training   and   going   to   conferences   and   hosting   C   Bus   Plus   Weekly.   But   as   you   said,   I   brought   back   C   VP   Cast   again.   So   yeah,   it&#39;s   been   good.   I   Can   I   ask   you   what&#39;s   your   local   meetup?   What&#39;s   my   local   meetup?
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>5:37</time>
      <p>
          Because   famously   you   always   say   in   your   talks,   go   to   your   local   meetups.   Which   local   meetup   are   you   going   to   right   now,   Jason?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>5:42</time>
      <p>
          I   will   shortly   be   presumably   bouncing   between   the   Amsterdam   and   Eindhoven   C   meetups.   That   is   cool.   That   is   the   plan.   I   will,   well,   and   fine,   since   you   brought   it   up,   I   am   in   the   process   of   relocating   to   the   Netherlands.   We&#39;ll   see   how   that   goes.   It   is   not   a   secret   or   anything.   And   there&#39;s   so   there&#39;s   both   of   those   meetups   meet   irregularly,   say   once   every   three   or   four   months.   And   I   would   love   because   well,   how   long   Ben?   How   long   has   it   been   now?   Just   right   at   10   years?   One   one   month   away   from   Denver.   So   the   Denver   meetup,   you   mean?   Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>6:23</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   I&#39;m   gonna   say   yes.   I   mean,   I   only   came   to   Denver   in   late   2018.   Right.   And   I   know   you   were   going   before   then,   and   you   had   moved   around   you&#39;d   moved   from   the   tech   center   to   the   north.   I&#39;m   not   sure   what   you&#39;re   counting   as   the   beginning   of   the   Denver   meetup.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>6:38</time>
      <p>
          So   the   one   when   it   was   Scott   Frederickson   was   the   one   who   had   it   when   it   was   down   at   the   Denver   Tech   Center,   and   then   he   retired   from   hosting   the   meetup   and   asked   me   if   I   wanted   to   take   it   over,   and   I   said,   No   way,   are   you   crazy?   Why   would   I   want   to   do   that?   Basically.   And   then   a   few,   maybe   it   was   a   year,   about   a   year   later.   And   then   I   was   like,   you   know   what,   we   need   a   meetup.   And   I   moved   it   up   north   because   it   was   too   far   south,   and   most   of   the   C   jobs   are   centered   around   like   Boulder,   Longmont,   whatever,   and   this   and   and   the   Denver   area.   Anyhow,   I   moved   the   meetup   up   there,   and   I   believe   that   this   is   to   one   month,   one   month   shy   of   the   10th   year   anniversary.   I   left   just   before   the   10th   year   anniversary   for   the   meetup.   And   we   missed   exactly   one   meetup   during   that   time   frame.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>7:24</time>
      <p>
          Really?   For   the   entire   decade.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>7:27</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   uh,   someone   should   double   check   the   the   date   there.   I   think   it&#39;s   10   years.   Ben,   I   don&#39;t   know,   one   of   us   could   look   it   up.   It&#39;s   the   entire   history   of   it&#39;s   on   meetup.com.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>7:35</time>
      <p>
          I   mean,   from   my   personal   experience,   it&#39;s   eight   years   this   month.   From   you   because   October   or   eight   years   last   month.   Like   September   2018   was   probably   the   first   Denver   meetup   I   attended.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>7:48</time>
      <p>
          That   probably   makes   the   North   Denver,   or   is   it   is   it   North   Denver   or   Denver   now?   Because   I   know   at   one   point   there   was   alright,   it   doesn&#39;t   matter,   but   it   must   be   the   most   consistent,   unless   if   there&#39;s   like   in   in   Scandinavi,   I   know   Scandinavia   has   a   lot   of   C,   and   there&#39;s   the   Sweet,   the   Swedish   or   Sweden   C.   It   must   be   the   most   consistent   because   missing   one   month   over   like   that   C   Toronto   doesn&#39;t   hold   a   candle   to   that.   Like   we   we&#39;ve   had   like   one   meetup   in   the   last   year,   and   I   know   Mike&#39;s   been   busy   with   conference   organizing   and   stuff.   Like   it&#39;s   not   like   uh   we&#39;re   giving   people   a   hard   time   for   not   organizing   meetups,   it&#39;s   a   lot   of   work.   But   yeah,   that   is   an   that&#39;s   a   crazy   stat.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>8:20</time>
      <p>
          Especially   I   I   mean   I   think   this   is   Jason&#39;s   influence.   Jason   is   nothing   if   not   consistent.   It   puts   out   C   weekly,   weekly.   And   and   you   know,   I   I   think   probably   that&#39;s   in   Jason&#39;s   head,   that&#39;s   an   important   feature   of   any   kind   of   endeavor   is   consistency   because   that&#39;s   what   brings   people   in,   right?   It   is.   Jason,   you   I   don&#39;t   want   to   talk   for   you.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>8:41</time>
      <p>
          No,   you&#39;re   you&#39;re   absolutely   like   you   you   I&#39;m   I   I&#39;m   trying   to   scroll   back   and   verify   when   the   first   meetup   was   because   now   I&#39;m   obsessed   with   trying   to   figure   that   out.   But   it   is   absolutely   consistent.   If   you   want   to   build   community   of   any   kind,   then   you   kinda,   you   know,   you   you   have   to   be   consistent.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>8:59</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   you   have   to   be   able   to   say   first,   you   know,   first   Thursday   of   every   month.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>9:02</time>
      <p>
          Right.   That&#39;s   when   we   meet.   November   3rd   of   2016   was   when   I   took   it   over.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>9:08</time>
      <p>
          Okay.   So   that   is   ten   years.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>9:10</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   That&#39;s   and   what&#39;s   wild   too   is   that   that   captures   the   whole   COVID   period.   So   like   you   would   you   would   assume   that   you   would   have   dropped   a   couple   months   here   and   there   just   by   virtue   of   the   fact   that   that   was   a   crazy   period,   and   at   least   during   the   transition,   you   would   imagine.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>9:25</time>
      <p>
          But   no,   we   immediately   said,   What   are   we   gonna   do?   Let&#39;s   meet   online.   And   you   were   there,   right,   Connor?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>9:30</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   yeah.   You&#39;re   you   had   one   of   the   best   uh   and   first   like   online   virtual,   I   mean,   uh   almost   all   of   them.   I   remember   the   San   Diego   C   it   almost   became   a   bit   much   because   at   the   time   I   was   like   at   max   consumption,   not   just   virtual   conferences   and   meetups,   and   at   some   point   I   burnt   out.   But   like   as   soon   as   meetups   went   virtual,   especially   the   APL   meetups   too,   like   those,   there&#39;s   only   a   handful   of   them   across   the   world.   And   so,   like   when   the   British   APL   Association   starts   meeting   online,   like   that   was   something   I   there   was   no   local   Toronto   APL   meetup   that   I   could   go.   Yeah,   surprise,   surprise.   It&#39;s   actually   Toronto   of   all   the   places   would   actually   be   a   decent   place   to   have   one   because   there&#39;s   IP   sharpen   associates   and   there&#39;s   a   big   Q   community   as   well.   So   of   all   the   places,   but   anyways,   I   remember   the   the   Denver   C   meetups   were   and   and   then   you   even   continued   to   host   them   hybrid   for   a   while.   They&#39;re   still   hybrid,   in   fact.   And   we   still   do.   Yeah,   amazing.   So   definitely   at   the   top   of   the   show   notes   will   be   a   link   for   those   that   don&#39;t   have   a   local   meetup.   You   can   treat   the   Denver   seatup   as   your   local   meetup   virtually.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>10:31</time>
      <p>
          Well,   I   was   just   gonna   say   one   particular   person   who   has   been   attending   from   Australia   since   COVID.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>10:36</time>
      <p>
          That&#39;s   right.   Shout   out   to   Ashley.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>10:39</time>
      <p>
          Ashley,   yes,   shout   out   to   Ashley.   Ashley,   I   think,   has   attended   more   meetups   than   I   have   in   the   last   couple   of   years,   actually.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>10:46</time>
      <p>
          What&#39;s   the   the   time   zone   there&#39;s   gotta   be   brutal?   Is   that   the   middle   of   the   night?   I   think   it&#39;s   like   beginning   of   the   day   for   him   when   Denver   meets.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>10:54</time>
      <p>
          I   think   it&#39;s   like   sort   of   maybe   8   a.m.   something   like   that.   Right,   because   the   meetup&#39;s   in   the   evening.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>10:58</time>
      <p>
          It&#39;s   not   it&#39;s   not   during   work   work   hours.   Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>11:01</time>
      <p>
          Well,   let&#39;s   see,   we   can   figure   this   out.   Denver   is   GMT   minus   seven   and   Australia   is   GMT,   let&#39;s   say,   plus.   Because   we   all   memorize   that   kind   of   stuff,   yeah.   Of   course.   I   was   just   thinking   also.   That&#39;s   approximately   right.   So   that   means   he&#39;s   if   we   say   sixteen   hours   at   two-thirds   of   a   day   or   eight   hours,   so   you   know,   we   meet   at   six,   that   actually   that   means   it&#39;s   like   two   a.m.   for   him.   Well,   maybe   I   was   miss   I   was   thinking   wrong.   Maybe   it&#39;s   three   a.m.   depending   on   how   far   ahead   of   GMT   he   is.   He   might   be   in   like   Queensland,   it   might   not   be   exactly   nine   hours,   it   might   be   nine   and   a   half,   or   I   don&#39;t   know.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>11:35</time>
      <p>
          Maybe   a   future   guest   for   You   should   do   that.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>11:37</time>
      <p>
          Have   Ashley   on.   Absolutely.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>11:40</time>
      <p>
          Oh   yeah,   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>11:40</time>
      <p>
          We&#39;ll   figure   out   the   time   zones.   You   were   gonna   say   though,   over   COVID.   Oh,   we   had   people   from   all   over,   people   from   Europe,   everything,   like   who   who   attended   the   meetup.   It   was   crazy.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>11:49</time>
      <p>
          A   wild   time,   a   long   time   ago.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>11:51</time>
      <p>
          No,   it   wasn&#39;t.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>11:52</time>
      <p>
          Oh   wait,   no,   I   was   right.   I   was   thinking   the   wrong   way   around.   I   and   So   it&#39;s   not   2   a.m.   Because   he&#39;s   not   eight   hours   ahead   of   Denver,   he&#39;s   16   hours   ahead   of   Denver,   right?   I   was   behind.   So   when   we   meet   at   6,   it&#39;s   like   10   a.m.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>12:04</time>
      <p>
          This   is   when   a   video   we   were   talking   about   before   we   officially   started   recording   that   there&#39;s   there   there&#39;s   no   uh   video   component,   but   if   there   was,   people   would   have   seen   Ben   kind   or   Ben   kind   of   freeze   for   a   few   seconds,   and   then   ah,   I   was   wrong.   Like   you   could   tell   that   the   gears   were   turning   in   his   head.   What   they   were   turning   for,   I   wasn&#39;t   exactly   sure,   but   then   it   became   clear.   Anyway,   so   you&#39;re   you&#39;re   based   in   Amsterdam,   right?   Or   I&#39;m   actually   not   sure.   I   I   just   uh   guessed   that   uh   maybe   not   Amsterdam,   it   could   be   Einho,   or   somewhere   in   between.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>12:30</time>
      <p>
          And   actually,   so   my   my   wife   and   I   were   just   shopping   yesterday   and   we   saw   is   that   today,   whatever,   yesterday,   we   saw   a   mug   that   said,   I&#39;m   Dutch   and   no   I   don&#39;t   live   in   Amsterdam,   and   we&#39;re   like,   we   need   those   bugs.   Because   like   every   single   person   that   we&#39;ve   interacted   with   is   like,   oh,   so   when   you   move   to   Amsterdam,   I&#39;m   not   moving   to   Amsterdam.   I   mean,   and   by   every   person   I   mean   every   not   Dutch   person,   right?   There&#39;s   actually   a   lot   of   cities   in   this   small   country.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>12:56</time>
      <p>
          Because   that&#39;s   the   city   in   the   Netherlands   that   we&#39;ve   heard   of.   Yes.   Is   that   the   implication?   Yeah.   So   what   do   you   think   about   what   do   you   think   about   saying   Holland   for   the   Netherlands?   What   did   you   say?   Sorry,   what   was   that?   What   do   you   think   about   people   calling   the   Netherlands   Holland?   Oh,   it   seems   to   depend   partially   on   Holland.   I   mean   two   of   the   provinces,   Holland.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>13:16</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   Holland,   and   well   it&#39;s   weird   because   a   lot   of   the   like   tourist   merchandise   will   say   Holland   on   it,   but   it   is   just   like   one   of   the   provinces.   Counties.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>13:27</time>
      <p>
          Provinces.   Is   it   north,   north   and   south?   Is   there   not   north   and   south   or   is   it   just   one?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>13:30</time>
      <p>
          There&#39;s   north   and   south   Holland,   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>13:32</time>
      <p>
          But   anyhow,   somewhere   And   they   are   the   most   populous,   right?   I   guess   that&#39;s   where   all   the   population,   most   of   the   population   conjecture.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>13:38</time>
      <p>
          I   mean,   it&#39;s   certainly   the   highest   population   density,   but   how   it   weighs   against   the   rest   of   the   country,   I&#39;m   not   sure.   Okay.   Yeah.   But   anyhow,   somewhere   central.   We   um   don&#39;t   have   a   house   yet.   We&#39;re   homeless.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>13:50</time>
      <p>
          I   assume   you&#39;re   still   saying   so.   You&#39;re   just   not   homeowners   yet.   Oh   yeah,   I   guess   yeah,   you&#39;re   we&#39;re   in   an   Airbnb.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>13:58</time>
      <p>
          You   have   a   wall   behind   you,   so   I&#39;m   not   outside   at   the   moment.   But   it&#39;s   a   fascinating,   like,   if   you   look   at   the   statistics   of   like   how   people   who   are   unhoused   are   counted,   we   would   fall   actually   in   that   statistic   because   we   don&#39;t   have   a   permanent   home.   We   are   moving   from   transient   location   to   transient   location   until   we   find   a   permanent   home.   And   I   find   that   just   fascinating.   I   surely   do   not   face   the   same   same   kind   of   hardships   that   someone   who   is   you   know   has   no   roof   over   their   head.   Right.   Or   even   the   people   who   should   fall   into   that   statistic.   I&#39;m   not   sure   how   to   phrase   that,   right?   Like   ours   is   by   choice   at   the   moment,   is   what   I&#39;m   trying   to   say.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>14:36</time>
      <p>
          Right.   Yeah,   there   should   be   some   uh   granularity   there   that   disambiguates   between   your   situation.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>14:42</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.   I   was   gonna   say   you&#39;re   going   through   some   of   those   annoying   logistical   things   like   you   know,   having   to   s   having   to   get   a   footprint   in   the   country   involved,   like   having   to   get   a   bank   account   and   maybe   a   phone   and   utilities   and   things   like   that.   Uh   and   not   having   a   permanent   address   and   having   to   get   some   of   that   other   stuff   to   get   a   permanent   address,   but   having   to   have   a   permanent   address   to   get,   say,   a   bank   account   is   kind   of   a   chicken   and   egg   problem   sometimes.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>15:05</time>
      <p>
          Well,   yeah,   you   can&#39;t   rent   a   place   really   until   you   have   like   some   sort   of   foothold,   but   you   can&#39;t   apply   for   immigration   status   until   you   have   an   address.   So   you   kind   of   have   to   borrow   an   address.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>15:18</time>
      <p>
          Right.   Very   tricky.   Well,   we   bid   you   good   luck   on   your   journey   to   uh   becoming   housed.   Maybe   by   the   next   time   we&#39;re   we&#39;re   chatting,   that&#39;ll   be   the   case.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>15:28</time>
      <p>
          Maybe.   Which   conference   are   you   going   to   next?
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>15:31</time>
      <p>
          Well,   so   that   that&#39;s   a   perfect   segue   back   to   that   little   uh   tangent   that   we   just   went   on.   Started   from   you   said   you   think   you   were   at   every   single   conference   this   year   that   probably   you   typically   go   to.   And   what   conference   am   I   going   to   next?   I   have   absolutely   no   idea.   I&#39;ve   actually   only   been   to   one   conference   this   year,   and   it   was   C   or   NDC   Toronto,   I   check   what   it&#39;s   called.   And   that&#39;s   not   because   I   mean   I   did   apply   to   a   couple,   one   of   them   was   uh   Lambda   World   in   uh   Cadiz,   but   that   is   at   the   tail   end   of   October   in   a   couple   weeks,   and   that   is   not   possible   with   having   a   newborn.   And   uh   and   so   and   I   think   there   was   maybe   one   or   two   others,   but   I   have   in   my   old   age   now   started   submitting   more   esoteric,   like   you   know,   I   used   to   do   like   two   for   peop   the   people   and   then   one   for   me,   you   know,   something   more   combined   combinatory   logic.   And   in   my   old   age   now,   I   kind   of   just   one   for   me,   one   for   me,   one   for   I&#39;m   you&#39;re   not   I&#39;m   not   giving   the   people   what   they   want   in   terms   of   like   the   new   algorithms   and   C26   or   whatever.   And   inevitably   there&#39;s   less   demand   for   my   esoteric   obscure   topics   that   I   want   to   talk   about.   So   a   combination   of   uh   the   new   baby   and   odd   topics   led   to   only   one   talk   this   year.   I   do   plan   on   submitting   next   year,   but   I   have   I   have   no   idea   that   really   depends   on   yeah,   how   how   well   the   baby   is   gonna   like   traveling.   We&#39;re   gonna   dip   our   toe   in   the   water   and   we&#39;ll   see   how   it   goes.   Some   babies   are   better   than   others.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>16:59</time>
      <p>
          Although   Well,   you   know,   who   was   it   who   said   there   are   there   are   two   classes   of   travel,   first   class   and   with   children.   I   think   that   was   the   quote.   Someone   like   George   Bernature,   I   can&#39;t   remember.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>17:11</time>
      <p>
          My   wife   Shima   really   wants   me   to   submit   because   she   would   love   because   she&#39;s   off   for   the   next   year   on   on   Matt   Leave   and   would   love   to   take   along.   But   yeah,   so   we   will   see.   Anyways,   I&#39;m   sure   we   will   bump   into   each   other   because   we   we   tend   to,   Jason,   but   I   have   I   had   no   idea   what   the   next   one   will   be.   So   it&#39;s   easier   if   you   tell   us   all   the   conferences   you   went   to   in   the   past   year,   and   then   I&#39;ll   just   select   from   those   the   ones   that   I   applied   to.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>17:33</time>
      <p>
          Okay.   So   this   past   year,   C   online,   and   then   NDC   Toronto   was   next,   I   think.   And   then   I   went   to   NDC   Copenhagen,   not   a   C   conference.   There   was   a   lot   of   AI   content   that   conference.   I   have   no   idea   how   it   normally   rolls,   of   course.   And   then   C   or   ACCU   on   the   sea,   Folkston.   And   then   was   my   next   one,   C   VPCon.   And   then   NDC   Tech   Town,   and   then   I&#39;m   going   to   C   under   the   sea   in   a   week   and   having   a   workshop   there.   I   think   that&#39;s   all   of   them.   That&#39;s   a   lot.   I   but   I   miss   C   now.   I   was   gonna   say   that   one   was   notably   absent   from   the   list.   Yeah,   I   haven&#39;t   actually   been   since   2018.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>18:22</time>
      <p>
          It&#39;s   an   expensive   and   difficult   conference   to   get   to,   unless   if   if   you   don&#39;t   work   for   Bloomberg,   I   guess.   Um   Yeah,   even   if   you&#39;re   a   local.   I   was   gonna   ask   you,   Jason.   Well,   if   you&#39;re   local,   it&#39;s   only   a   drive,   but   it&#39;s   still   that   that   conference   runs   on   the   shoes   drink   budget.   So   as   a   speaker,   you   get   a   ticket,   but   you   don&#39;t   get   your   hotel   paid   for,   for   example.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>18:44</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>18:44</time>
      <p>
          But   I   was   gonna   ask   you,   Jason,   so   you   what   was   that?   Half   a   dozen   conferences   at   least.   Did   you   did   you   speak   at   all   of   them?   And   and   maybe   you   didn&#39;t   speak   at   Copenhagen,   you   said,   but   um   I   did.   How   many   talks?   Oh,   you   did.   So   how   many   talks   did   you   did   you   prep   this   year?   How   many   did   you   take   from   conference   to   conference?   How   did   they   evolve?
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>19:02</time>
      <p>
          Oh   goodness.   All   right.   So   I   did   have   a   couple   of   repeats   this   year   because   I   kind   of   made   like   my   list   of   like   five   talks,   and   then   I   submitted   like   overlapping   ones   to   different   conferences   to   see   what   get   accepted.   I   gave   one   talk,   uh   one   talk   on   C   ⁇   online,   that   one   was   unique,   and   the   NDC   Copenhagen   one   was   unique,   and   then   C   on   C   talk,   which   was   which   was   Safety   and   Numbers,   I   gave   also   at   CDPCon.   And   then   also   at   C   V   PCon,   I   gave   the   talk   The   Rule   of   N.   Let&#39;s   just   say   the   rule   of   N.   And   then   I   duplicated   that   one,   you   see,   Tech   Town.   Now,   and   ironically,   I   did   not   get   a   talk   accepted   as   C   under   the   C,   but   I&#39;m   giving   a   workshop   there,   so   I   still   get   a   free   ticket.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>19:49</time>
      <p>
          I   will   go   and   find   the   links   for   for   all   these   mentioned   talks.   So   if   you&#39;re   interested   in   seeing   at   least   the   ones   that   are   out,   I   assume   the   CPPCon   talk   is   not   available   online   a   number   of   months.   But   the   other   one   should   be.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>20:00</time>
      <p>
          Yes.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>20:00</time>
      <p>
          It&#39;s   not   yet.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>20:01</time>
      <p>
          I   think   I   gave   a   couple   of   good   ones   this   year.   My   C   online   one   was   Clickbaity.   It   was   IFix   Move   Semantics.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>20:08</time>
      <p>
          Oh   yes,   I   saw   that   one.   I   remember.   That   one.   I   got   I   whenever   I   go   to   a   Jason&#39;s   talk,   I   go   partly   so   that   Jason   has   someone   in   the   audience   he   can   pick   on.   I   don&#39;t   remember   if   I   picked   on   you   on   that.   I   mean   it&#39;s   And   it&#39;s   often   the   case   that   it&#39;s   often   the   case   that   we   have   discussed   on   Discord   or   whatever,   maybe   sometimes   even   in   person,   the   the   general   theme   of   the   talk,   and   we&#39;ve   we&#39;ve   been   back   and   forth   with   a   couple   of   ideas   around   it,   maybe.   Absolutely,   yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>20:33</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   one   I   think   that   was   a   good   talk.   I   it   was   an   unexpected   response   from   it   because   so   the   point   of   all   of   my   talks   is   to   make   people   think,   right?   Like   I   don&#39;t   expect   everyone   to   agree   with   everything   I   say,   that&#39;s   silly.   And   in   fact,   I   I   like   I   want   people   to   disagree   with   me   in   a   way   because   then   that   means   they&#39;re   actually   thinking   about   the   problem,   right?   I   mean   engaged.   Usually.   Every   now   and   then   you   get   the   person   who   disagrees   with   you,   and   it&#39;s   clearly   just   because   they   don&#39;t   feel   like   thinking,   so   they&#39;re   going   back   to   their   old   ways   of   thinking.   But   if   someone   disagrees   with   you   in   a   thoughtful   way,   then   I   think   that&#39;s   amazing.   But   anyhow,   I   got   a   response   from   someone   saying   that   they   were   actually   rolling   the   ideas   from   the   iFix   Move   Semantics   talk   into   some   of   the   core   of   GCC   to   make   it   to   ensure   that   they   were   actually   in   their   stand   I   think   it   was   in   the   standard   library   or   something   to   make   it   sure,   make   sure   that   they   were   actually   forwarding   and   moving   how   they   meant   to   and   using   the   type   system   like   I   suggested   to   ensure   that.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>21:33</time>
      <p>
          Nice.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>21:34</time>
      <p>
          Yeah,   it   is.   The   second   talk   comments.   I   was   trying   to   find   some,   you   know,   uh   pithy   comments   from   the   YouTube   video.   It&#39;s   got   10,000   views,   folks.   Link   link   in   the   show   notes.   It   says   it&#39;s   extremely   depressing   that   this   talk   makes   sense   and   is   actually   useful.   I   would   love   to   have   an   ability   to   introduce   breaking   changes   to   C.   Haven&#39;t   seen   I   haven&#39;t   seen   the   talk,   folks,   but   it   uh   is   intriguing   and   makes   me   want   to   watch   it   immediately.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>22:00</time>
      <p>
          No   one   has   seen   all   of   my   talks,   not   even   me.   Like   uh   I   mean,   do   you   ever   finish   a   talk   and   you&#39;re   like,   I   have   no   idea   what   I   just   said?   You   know   what   I   mean?   Like,   sometimes   it&#39;s   just   Oh,   all   the   time.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>22:12</time>
      <p>
          Because   it&#39;s   like   being   on   stage   giving   a   talk   is   like   you&#39;re   in   a   separate   universe.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>22:17</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>22:18</time>
      <p>
          And   you&#39;re   performing,   and   then   you   come   off   and   and   it&#39;s   like   it&#39;s   like   the   whole   thing   was   a   fugue,   and   you   don&#39;t   remember   afterwards   exactly   what   you   said.   Or   sometimes   even   vaguely   what   you   said.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>22:28</time>
      <p>
          I   I   I   always   remember   stuff,   but   I   I   I   remember   all   the   things   that   like   I   messed   up   or   it&#39;s   not   so   much   messed   up,   but   like   I   wanted   to   say   but   didn&#39;t   say.   And   then   like   the   first   few   talks   I   ever   gave,   I   always   thought,   like,   oh,   that   went   so   bad   compared   to   like   what   I   was   aiming   for.   And   then   I&#39;ll   watch   the   recording   when   it   comes   out.   I   know   some   people   don&#39;t   do   that,   but   I   I   do   it   to   like   you   know,   compare   it   and   and   whatever   practice   as   if   you   know   it&#39;s   a   performance.   And   then   whenever   I   watch   it,   I&#39;m   like,   well,   that   isn&#39;t   nearly   as   bad   as   I   thought   because   all   of   the   quote   unquote   mistakes   I   made   were   mostly   I   wanted   to   highlight   this   one   thing   and   like   fail   to   highlight   it   in   the   way   that   I   wanted   to,   but   like   that   doesn&#39;t   come   across   as   like   you   flubbing   or   like   saying   something   incorrect.   It&#39;s   just   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   a   delta   from   what   you   envisioned,   but   it   it   doesn&#39;t   come   across   as   like,   oh,   this   person   made   a   mistake.   So   I   I   find   actually   watching   the   talks   always   like   I&#39;ve   never   watched   a   talk   and   thought,   oh,   it   is   as   bad   as   I   thought   it   was.   It&#39;s   usually,   oh,   that   actually   wasn&#39;t   nearly   anywhere   as   bad.   It   I   actually   that&#39;s   the   talk   stands,   you   know,   on   its   own.   Just   because   I   missed   a   few   things   that   I   wanted   to   highlight   doesn&#39;t   necessarily   make   it   a   bad   thing.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>23:33</time>
      <p>
          But   I   think   this   is   true   of   most   creative   endeavors.   You   know,   we   used   to   say   the   same   thing   when   I   worked   in   games.   When   you&#39;re   making   the   game,   you   have   all   these   amazing   ideas,   and   the   game   you   should   actually   ship,   you   know,   if   you&#39;re   lucky,   implements   maybe   half   of   them.   Yeah.   And   so   what   you   ship   always   seems   such   a   a   lesser   thing   than   you   than   you   could   have   achieved   in   the   you   know,   of   course,   in   the   time   constraints   and   budget   constraints,   you   achieve   what   you   can   achieve.   But   but   you   know,   the   people   who   play   the   game   never   know.   They   never   see   all   the   things   that   could   have   been.   And   if   they   see   a   good   game,   fine.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>24:05</time>
      <p>
          But   I&#39;m   thinking   like   my   style   of   presentation.   I   mean,   I   think   this   is   obvious   to   some   people   who   watch   my   talks,   but   I&#39;ve   got   maybe   like   a   let&#39;s   say   maybe   like   a   70%   plan.   Right?   Right.   The   rest   of   it   is   absolutely.
      </p>

        <cite>Ben</cite>
      <time>24:20</time>
      <p>
          You   talk   sound   very   interactive.
      </p>

        <cite>Jason Turner</cite>
      <time>24:21</time>
      <p>
          Yes.   So   it&#39;s   rare   that   I   ever   get   to   the   end   of   the   talk   and   say,   oh,   I   didn&#39;t   communicate   all   the   things   that   I   meant   to   communicate,   because   I&#39;m   not   even   necessarily   sure   like   exactly   what   I   meant   to   communicate,   right?   Like   I&#39;m   gonna   have   a   I&#39;m   gonna   have   slides   that   have   the   key   points,   and   everything   else   is   just   gonna   be   like,   let&#39;s   see   what   happens.   So   that   that   part   is   rare.   But   sometimes   you&#39;re   just   so   exhausted   from   the   conference   and   the   travel   and   everything,   you&#39;re   like,   like,   you   know,   I   you   don&#39;t   remember   like   how   the   talk   went,   basically.   You&#39;re   just   like,   never   mind,   I&#39;m   done.   I&#39;m   shot.
      </p>

        <cite>Conor</cite>
      <time>24:55</time>
      <p>
          You   know?   Yeah.   Kate   Gregory   has   said   that   in   a   couple   different   talks   or   podcasts   she&#39;s   given,   yeah.   She   gets   off   the   stage   and   it&#39;s   just   like   the   most   energy   draining   uh   experience.   Because   it&#39;s   it&#39;s   not   just   the   talk,   it&#39;s   the   build-up   to   the   talk,   the   prep   for   the   talk,   and   then   it&#39;s   finally   done,   and   it&#39;s   like   well,   maybe   we   should   talk   about   some   of   these   talks.   I   know   that   Ben   had   specifically   called   out   this   rule   of   N.   Be   sure   to   check   these   show   notes   either   in   your   podcast   app   or   at   adspthepodcast.com   for   links   to   anything   we   mentioned   in   today&#39;s   episode,   as   well   as   a   link   to   a   GitHub   discussion   where   you   can   leave   thoughts,   comments,   and   questions.   Thanks   for   listening.   We   hope   you   enjoyed   and   have   a   great   day.   I   am   the   anti   price.   Um
      </p>