Reviving the Ancient Gods: Hellenic Polytheism with George Lizos

In this landmark episode of the Magick Kitchen Podcast, hosts Leandra Witchwood and Elyse Welles sit down with spiritual teacher, psychic healer, and bestselling author George Lizos to explore the modern revival of Hellenic polytheism — the living religion of the ancient Greek gods.

George shares his groundbreaking experience performing the first Hellenic polytheist wedding in Cyprus, what it means to practice an evolving ancient faith, and how community, ritual, and activism are helping restore sacred traditions to modern life. Together, they dive deep into the real essence of the Greek gods — beyond myth — and explore how these deities represent universal laws, virtues, and living forces that guide us today.

From the mysteries of Zeus and Aphrodite to the misunderstood roles of Hekate and Dionysus, this conversation bridges witchcraft and religion, exploring how the old ways are alive, evolving, and deeply needed in our world.

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Transcript

This time in the Magick Kitchen, we are joined by George Louizos discussing all things Hellenic polytheism. I'm Leandra Witchwood and I'm Elyse Welles. And welcome to the Magic Kitchen Podcast where we talk about magic kitchen, witchcraft, herbs and everything in between. The Magic Kitchen Podcast is funded and supported by the Witchwood Teahouse. Com offering a variety of hand-blended, loose leaf teas as well as loose herbs for all of your ritual spellwork wellness and everyday enjoyment needs. If you would like to support this podcast while sipping a cup of tea, head over to the Wychwood Teahouse. Com and find the magic that's in store for you. Okay, we have not been back with a catch up for you guys for a little while, and it's honestly, the irony is because we've been so busy. Busy. So first things first, thank you to everybody who came out for Soundfest twenty twenty five. I was a crazy woman, and the exact year that I decided to buy my first home, which needed a lot of work, by the way, that we've also had to pay for. Um, we also decided to do an entire festival. My husband had the brilliant idea. Um, Brooks actually works with me full time now. He's been editing the podcast for years, but now he's working with me full time on seeking numinous stuff. And he was like, you know, you and Megan, Megan Plummer from Cosmic Theater Mystery School. You guys do this, like, paranormal thing every year. We do this like Paranormal Day with ethical ghost hunting and a seance. He was like, why don't you guys just do a whole festival? So the three of us decided to do this festival seeking numinous. Sponsored. Um. And then it just came together. It was really beautiful. We had over one hundred people there, plus all of our vendors. We had some food trucks. Um, and most excitingly, we had some excellent presenters, like our own. Leandra wychwood. Ta da! We had a whole Wychwood Teahouse pop up and tea ceremony and it was just amazing. It was so good. It was it was a great day for it. The only, the only thing that was a little bit of an issue was the wind. Yeah, we had so much wind, which is, which is so funny because like, Megan has this thing with like wind where like wind, like messes with her. And she was like, this is my bad, guys, I'm so sorry. It's all Megan's fault. No, no, it was fine. Like, once we got all the booths anchored down, it was fine. Yeah, we did have a few, uh, flying canopy situations in the beginning. We did. Everyone got their flying tents. Yeah. So mark your calendars. We're aiming for the same weekend, which would actually be Halloween weekend. So the thirty first and November first. Um, and I'm hoping this can be a two day event because we had a lot of speaker interest that couldn't fit into the day once it got going. Yeah. Um, and I would like to give everybody that space. So we had a lot of workshops and presentations, and I really loved that. Like we, I ran a dumb supper, three separate sessions, which is a silent meal with your ancestors, and we communed with apples to connect with our ancestors and bring them into our bodies through that. And it was just so nice, like to hear the reflections from people on like the intention I set before the event was that I want everybody who comes to this to have an experience that spurs them forwards in the right direction for their spiritual path, that this isn't a container that ends and then it's like it never happened, but instead it's something that catalyzes you towards your next goal. And I actually had two people say the exact phrase to me. I feel like I know exactly the step forward I need to take. Oh, good, good. That was really special to hear that exact phrase I was using. Um, and the feedback's been pouring in. We've had really good responses, so thank you to those who were there. Mark your calendars for next year. Um, and it's in Havre de Grace, Maryland. So I think I didn't say that part, but have it or grace and it's beautiful. It's a cute little area like it's all enclosed and I yeah, I liked the area. And I think my favorite part though, of doing events like this, and especially this one, is I got to meet so many of our listeners. Yeah. Shout out! They were so I know, and they were so excited to meet us and sit and talk with us and take pictures and it and yeah, that's my favorite part of these things is to really connect with everybody. So you can see, yeah, we're real. We exist. Yeah. We're not just talking heads or voices on the radio like we're we, we're here and we're doing the work and we're inviting you to do it with us. Yeah. Yes. And, uh, tell everybody what you were up to this past week. Oh, my gosh. So before sunfest, I was hosting the Sanctuary One Gardens of the Mystic Retreat up in the Adirondacks. And this was amazing. I was, and I'll be honest, like, I was getting a little nervous about it because at the last minute it seemed like the furlough and all this awful political crap started affecting people. So I had a lot of people pull out of the retreat and I was like, man. It was supposed to be nine of us, and now it's going to be like two of us. But it was the most nourishing week that I have had in a very long time. We cooked together, we walked in the woods, we visited waterfalls. We went down and spent some time with the Hudson River and her ancient energy. It was just so amazing. And then my favorite part was the last night we were there. I built everyone a candlelit labyrinth that we all walked and we communed with the nature spirits, the wild spirits there. And it was so interesting because we all had so many amazing experiences. One of my students, she was we had already left, so we were like winding down, getting ready to go to bed. And she had lost one of her earrings And it was. This was like a special earring for her. She uses it for her energy healing practice. It's a really special earring. And they were looking for forty five minutes looking, looking, looking, looking everywhere. And she went to the edge of the forest because in where we were at, they were surrounded by fifty acres of pine and oak and just beautiful forest, completely dark like. You want to talk about no light pollution when you turn out the lights, like the stars are so, so bright. And so when she was like at that resolve where she was like, I cannot find this earring, where did it go? She did something that I'm so proud of her for doing. She went to the edge of the forest and asked the wild spirits, can you please bring that back to me? It's so important to me. It's very valuable to me. Please bring it back to me. And, you know, she's, you know, giving up. She's like, well, we'll look in the morning. It's getting late. Goes back to her chair and sees something flash. And there's the earring right at the base of her chair. Yeah. And they had looked, all three of them that were looking with bright spotlights, with flashlights, with phone lights. They looked for forty five minutes and passed that area three times looking. It was not there. But after she petitioned to the forest to please return it, there it was. So it was just one of those magical moments where you're like, oh, they are listening. They are interacting with us. Yeah, it was so, so wonderful. And then, um, we had we had a surprise visitor, um, come in because he told us some Adirondack stories because he's lived there his entire life. And if you're not familiar with with where, uh, we're in, um, Chester, New York and Chester, New York and North Creek, they're famous for Gore mountain, which is is famous for skiing now, but it's also where a lot of our garnet, a red garnet comes from. And red garnet is not only used in jewelry, but also to make sandpaper. So, um, he brought us, like, chunks of garnet. I actually have it back here. The chunk. I mean, you can't see it through the the, um, the, uh, um. Audio version of this, but I have a nice big chunk of red garnet that he gave us to take home with us, and, um, he. When when he saw the labyrinth, he was like, oh, this is cool. And we we got him into it and he walked the labyrinth. And it was just such a nice experience to not only share it with my students, but with somebody who is not, not necessarily part of our spiritual community. And we were all talking about the wild spirits and that sort of thing. And he's like, oh, yeah, I talked to them all the time, and I see them all the time. And I was we all went, what? Like all of us, you can see all of us turn and look at him like, really? And he was like, yeah, I feel that it's a privilege. It's an honor for them to allow me to see them and to interact with them. I'm like, oh my God, that is such. That was such a wonderful, like validating experience for everybody there, because that's what we were working with a lot is the wild spirits there, the trees, the land, the rocks, the wind, the air, you know, everything, the water, everything. And to have someone outside of the circle to validate it, it's just one of those wonderful things, those experiences you can't get anywhere else. And I can't wait to to host the next one. Um, I'm going to start, uh, The Gardens of the mystic again up in January, and I'm going to start, um, I'm going to try and figure out how to do sanctuary one and two, because I do have some interest from people who want to join Sanctuary one. Now, this is an eighteen month program. It is an initiation program. It is a leadership program. And what I do is I lead you through eighteen different gardens that relate to an esoteric idea, an esoteric theory. And it this is where I help you create those astral temples and those astral workshops, those, um, studios, if you will, where you do this work and you start connecting with your path on a much deeper level. And, um, in sanctuary two and three, I'm also teaching my I'm still trying to figure out a name for it, but it's basically an integrated energy healing where I take my my mastery in Reiki and my mastery in Celtic Reiki, and I teach how I mush those together and make them work. So there's a lot that goes on into this. Yeah, it's a huge program. It's a lot that goes into it, and those who show up for it get so much out of it and I can't wait to offer this to more people. Oh, beautiful. And you did something this week too. I think it just ended yesterday. I did, yes. So. So like I said, I haven't had a a I don't think I've had a day off in the past like month. But I also hosted the witch crafting event online where I did six lessons, which the last one was a full moon ritual where I taught everyone how to make their own incense, how to make ashes, how to make dust, how to make salts, how to dress and anoint candles and make a puppet. And we ended it on the full moon to solidify our manifestation goals. And that was a lot of fun too. And I'm looking forward to do more, doing more of those. So I think twenty twenty six for both of us, Elise is going to be super busy. I know, I know. Oh yeah, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be great. It is. It's crazy how much it's already all getting added to the calendar, right? Right. Yeah. So that's the other thing that is big news actually, today, as of this episode coming out sacred Wild, an invitation to connect to spirits of the land is officially released into the world of yesterday. As of announcing this, I'm actually it's really weird saying this because it's we're recording this the Wednesday before, um, release day. So, um, but on Saturday, I'll be at Serpent's Key on this Saturday. So as of this recording yesterday, I was at the Serpent's Key, uh, signing books and, um. Yeah, I'm hoping to do a bigger signing event, at least for Salmon Fest so that people can come and, um, and what the Water Remembers, released in September. And I was just thinking about that. I don't think we've done a catch up, uh, like this, like a live sort of update on the podcast for a while. So my novel is out now, too. So these books I've been working on for like, since before the podcast began. Four years. Yeah. Five years. So crazy. So so crazy. So very exciting. If you ever see me out and about, I'm always happy to sign, sign your book. And, um, now it's it's all about looking ahead to twenty twenty six. Like I have the red thread that will start in January, where I guide everybody to connection with the Dark Goddesses for your personal empowerment, building a practice for yourself, um, with their guidance and the different things that each of these goddesses, there's like fifteen that come through in the course, um, how they guide us. And we do a lot of work in the astral for that, for that, uh, that course, um, there's a temple on the astral plane that I've built that we all go to, and I say I've built. Not really. Definitely. I was shown it's collaborative. It's existence by Inanna. Um, and that's, that's already got three people signed up, which is really cool. So you can sign up for a six month payment plans if you're if you're listening now, um, and the best part of twenty twenty six is okay, Maybe not. Best I can't even pick one best because I'm excited for. All these chances. I'm excited for all these retreats. But in addition to my intuition activation retreats in Delphi and my healing feminine wounding retreats in Delphi next year, I am also doing a retreat in Malta in April. So Malta is this missing link to the Mediterranean Goddesses? It is very, very old. It's over nine thousand years older than Greece, Rome, or even even older than Mesopotamia by at least a thousand years, which is insane. Like people are so unaware of the power Malta has. And, um, I think I might be one of the first people doing retreats there as well, because it's been a lot of work. Shout out to Ashley Brown at Nerd Ventures Travel, who's been helping me track down. She's been tracking down all the people to make this retreat possible on the ground. Um, but if you're interested in coming to Malta, there will only be six spots available, but I would love to have you. So definitely set up a call with me and we can talk about it. And I have some solo episodes planned on the seeking Noumena Sacred Places podcast to talk more about Malta and some guests as well, because I really I think there's something really missing in Western occult philosophy and practice where they, they just don't understand how important Malta was. Um, right. So it it really answers a lot of our questions about the why behind our practices and the when. Like, how did this start? What are the origins? Malta has a lot of them. So I'm very excited about that. And and next up is going to be all the conferences and figuring out the dates for those and the travel. And yeah, so it's a weird time of year right now because yeah, like in this moment it's fallow time. Like November is my writing month. Like I write every single day in November. I really try to show up at the page. Um, and then December it becomes about family and turning inward and still some writing And then January red thread launches and it starts to become twenty twenty six. And it's like, okay, now let's look ahead to spring. And and it all just flows really fast. So make sure to find some time in these next two months to embrace the the quiet, huh? Okay. Yeah. You're like oh definitely. Definitely. Nice try. No, no definitely like I yeah. That's one thing that I am going to get better at. I'm working on. It is for one, like celebrating. Like I don't think we celebrate our little wins as much as we do our big wins. Because if you think about it, if we're a quarter of the way done with something, we're a quarter of the way done with something, and that's something to celebrate. And I think I know for me, it's really hard to celebrate the little stuff because we're always looking at the big stuff, but there's so many little things that go into the big things that without those little things, the big thing would never happen. Yeah. And so, yeah. Find time to celebrate this season. Find time to rest this season. You know, even if it's just taking a cup of tea and sitting in bed and drinking tea, like, perfectly fine. Do it. Or if you like the coloring book things, you know, grab some color pencils and your coloring book, your adult coloring book. And you know, I saw an. Okay, so I'm a little bit obsessed with these now. I saw adult sticker books that you you sticker by number. So you're creating the image with stickers and I'm like, I love stickers. Yes, please. You know, oh that's cute. So so I got one of those. So yeah, that's going to be my decompression me time where I'm just relaxing. I'm gonna do some stickers by numbers. Nice. I just picked up embroidery. I got those, like patches that are water, you know, waters removed. So I actually I did my husband I did brooks a little shirt yesterday. They're faster than I expected. I thought I'd be working on one for a week, but I finished it in just a couple hours, and so I gave him a little mushroom on his. On his patch. On his shirt. How cute. How cute. Yeah. All my clothes are gonna get attacked now. Yeah, absolutely. And it's addicting. I used to do embroidery when I worked for the theater in Baltimore, and, like, I haven't picked up my kits in a long time, so I'm looking at some thread. I have some thread here that I love. I absolutely love it. It's so pretty. And I'm like, ah, you know what? I need to I need to pick up my embroidery and make a scarf or something, or not my embroidery, but my crochet. Oh yeah, that would be a pretty scarf. I think that should be another, um, episode of ours. Is the Textile Magic. Yeah. How important that is. Mhm. Oh, let's do that. All right. And on that note everybody enjoy our interview with enjoy the episode. Yeah. Have you ever felt a sacred place calling you? Join me at the Oracle of Delphi, where the sacred spring is flowing again. Be anointed in her waters and visit the temple of the Pythia, as well as other oracle sites in Greece. And experience for yourself the prophecy still stirring beneath the stones. This coming May. I'm guiding immersive pilgrimages to Aphrodite Springs, Eleusis, the Temple of Artemis and so many more sacred places. I can't wait to show you! Learn more at Elise Wells P26 or follow the link in the show notes. The land of Greece is waiting to remember you, George. Lesvos is a spiritual teacher, psychic healer, creator of the energy work membership and best selling author of Protect Your Light and Ancient manifestation secrets, which have been translated into more than ten languages. His work has been featured in goop, National Geographic, Mindbodygreen, The Sun, Us Weekly, and he was named Spiritual Writer of the year in twenty twenty four by Kindred Spirit magazine. George is passionate about empowering spiritual seekers with energy, tools and practices to help them manifest their purpose and create powerful change in the world. You can learn more at George Lesoes. Com and on socials at George Lesoes. I am so excited that we are finally having you on this show, because we have a lot of listeners who follow Hellenic polytheism and work with Greek deities, and I recommend your books to all my students. But now we finally get to have the big conversation. Yay! Thank you so much for having me. Both Elise and Leandra, I'm so grateful to be here. Yeah. Thank you. Welcome. I think we should start with the modern news. The actual. Like. Today's the day that the article came out. Tell everybody about this monumental celebration that we have in Cyprus and Greece right now. Oh my goodness, I'm so excited because I got to conduct the first ever marriage ceremony of Hellenic polytheism in Cyprus earlier this month that we're recording this. It's October twenty twenty five and it was a couple. The guy is Greek Cypriot and the bride, she's Chinese. And her parents came all the way from China for this ceremony. And it was so awesome, nice and beautiful for me to get to conduct this ceremony. I was trained to do it back when I was trained as a priest in twenty sixteen, but I never actually performed the ceremony, and this was the first time that I got to do it. And it was such a sacred moment. And you know what? At least I wrote this in the in the interview that that, uh, you so beautifully did with me, um, usually before doing any ceremonies, I have a little bit of anxiety because I try to remember all the steps and all the hints and everything, but this time it was like time stood still and I was fully present and I could feel the gods like working through me. And it was totally magical. So thank you so much for capturing that in an article that let me just say, it went viral. Yeah, it went viral overnight for me. And waking up this morning, I was like, oh, good. I mean, because it's finally some good news. Um, which maybe that's what we can can touch on because we like to get to the hard hitting facts of practice in this podcast. Um, what is this marriage ceremony legal in Cyprus? It's not. It's not because the the Cypriot government and our constitution only recognizes three religions. If I'm correct right now, and it hasn't dated since nineteen seventy four when it was created. And was it then? No no no. Nineteen sixty something. I'm getting the dates wrong, but the point is it has not been updated and therefore it's really hard for any religion to get legal recognition. But we have a legal temple that we've set up that is legal, that is registered, and that's where we perform the ceremony. It was in the modern Temple of Zeus in Olympia, and I'm mentioning the name because it comes from Olympia. So it used to be ancient Olympia in Cyprus, dedicated to Zeus. Hence why this temple is modern temple is dedicated to Zeus as well. So while it's not legal in Cyprus, it is legal in Greece. So in Greece they perform legal, spiritual, Hellenic, polytheist, uh, wedding ceremonies. But in Cyprus it's just something that the couple wanted to do. But it's definitely a step towards the right direction. Yeah, yeah. And that's what makes me so excited about it is. Yes, it is wild that we can practice as openly as we want for the most part. You know, we have some difficulty in the United States, but for the most part, no, the government is not going to actually say no, you can't call yourself that religion that you are. So it's a foreign concept to a lot of our listeners. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. And in Greece, the religion is recognized as the Hellenic ethnic religion since two thousand and seventeen. And that's when I actually went to train a year before twenty sixteen. It was right when it became legal. Uh, like at court, in court. And then eventually the law passed. So it is recognized legally in Greece. And that's a huge step forward. And usually Cyprus, we tend to follow Greece in matters like that. So hopefully we're gonna get legal recognition soon as well. And you know what articles like that and people showing up and taking action, that's what it takes because it's easy to talk and do podcasts and like write about it. But when people actually decide I want to get married this way, then it gives you like, more like standing as like, okay, there is a need for this, so let's do something about it for sure. Leandra, as somebody outside of Hellenic polytheism, do you have any questions that our listeners might have that are it can be it can be as base as you want it to be to really like introduce people who maybe come from a purely Western background of witchcraft to Hellenic polytheism. Well, I'm not sure I have any questions, but I think touching on the idea of activist activism is absolutely valid for a lot of reasons. Now, you know, here in the United States elsewhere, that when you start believing in something enough to take action to take on the government, like that's scary stuff. Like, I let's talk about that. Like, how do you get over that fear? How do you get over that idea that if it goes wrong, it could go really, really wrong type thing. Yeah, well, our strategy has been recently in Cyprus at least, to collaborate with international organisations. That gives us recognition. So we've collaborated with an organisation funded by the United Nations, for example, the W, and therefore we partnered with different religions from all around the world doing international conferences with the aim of collaborating as religions, also creating across religious collaboration and understanding. We are part and members of the European Congress of Ethnic Religions. Again, getting international recognition and participating in such conferences allows us to essentially eventually put some pressure onto the government. Say, you know what? Look at the United Nations is accepting us. They recognize us, recognizing us. We're members of international organizations. You have. Because we are in the European Union, you have to recognize this as well. That's how change happens. I mean, look at the history of the of the planet of humanity and everything we've gained, we've gained by campaigning, by trying, by asking, by not giving up, by showing up and doing the work. It's activism. And this is religious activism. That's great. Yeah. And I love the how you put in the putting the pressure on, you know, that I think that's so important that when we have support beyond our little communities, then real changes can happen. And that's amazing that that you were able to do that. Yes. Mhm. And the first time we met in person was at a landmark conference, Mediterranean twenty twenty four. You were speaking there and you invited me to come and it was awesome. It was an amazing. Yeah, it was this, this collaboration between the Romans and the Greeks and the Cypriots, of course, all of us. We met in Athens for the first Mediterranean Conference, which was a beautiful landmark historical moment of the two religions coming together. Um, and we again, another conference that again puts pressure and creates awareness around this. Yeah. And we put together a declaration of rights, which I think it's exciting because it might not move today, it might not move tomorrow. But I think in ten, fifteen, twenty years, that's a document that can be framed as a, as a, as a founding document, you know, as a it's a declaration of rights. Yes. And I want to thank you personally, like Elise, for like helping us in this quest by like contributing with like, the Wild Hunt articles and like creating awareness because we need all the support and the publicity that we need to, like, get the word out there. And that's part of the work that I do. Um, with my book Secrets of Greek Mysticism with the podcast that I do. I'm trying to create awareness about this to the like the Western English speaking community, because there is awareness in Greece and Cyprus. Okay. But it's it's within our bubble. So my purpose as a younger priest to the religion and more of an English speaking, internationally connected priest to the religion, I try to do that. I try to create awareness across countries. Yeah. That's why our work is in such alignment. I feel like all the time, because I think if we're not, we have to think globally now. We have to like it's it's a it's a pipe dream to consider otherwise could be our existence. And when we do think globally, it's actually a relief. Like it sounds like a lot, but it's actually a relief because it says, okay, the people I need to support me might not be next door, but they are out there. And when we open our our borders like that, the borders of our heart, we do find the right people who who need to hear our message. Um, so I want to talk about Hellenic polytheism as a religion, because a lot of our listeners are very triggered by that word. They're scared of it. They don't like it. Um, and we talk a lot in witchcraft about building your own path, you know, and a lot of people see that as a unique entity. But I've been toying more and more with religion ever since Temple Fest. When Leandra and I went to Temple Fest back in August. It was an incredible weekend, really expansive, really deep. Work was being done there. And I remember saying to you, Leandra, like I. Witchcraft is my religion. Like a lot of people don't like that and and like that word for themselves, and that's fine. But for me it is it's it's a foundational practice. That is how I view the world, is how I show up in the world and why I show up the way I do. Yeah. So, um, so I want this conversation to kind of speak to anybody out there who's like, um, oh, that word's hard. Stay with us. Let's sit with that discomfort. Um, so tell us about Hellenic polytheism as a religion. What are what are the beliefs? What are the tenets? What makes it a religion for you? So first of all, there are many different terms out there, and there are people debating what term you're allowed to use and what term you're not allowed to use. I am not part of that conversation around the logistics behind that and the and the terminology. I care more about the essence. There are other people who do this really well, and I follow them and I learn from them. But I aim to find common ground with everybody, okay? And that's part of the work that I do. That's why you'll you'll see terms like Hellenism is a religion and then you see Hellenic polytheism. And then I belong to the Hellenic ethnic religion. And sometimes there is like discord between the Hellenic ethnic religion, which is basically Greeks in in Greece and Cyprus, honoring their tradition of their ancestors versus non-greeks honoring the tradition of the ancient Greeks and their like judging one another and fighting blah blah blah blah blah. Now let's find common ground and let me share like the basis of this. The basis of this is that the ancient Greeks had a religion and it was not just mythology. We like to think about mythology as being what the ancient Greek religion was, which is not. The myths were stories that held important spiritual messages, and they were meant to be interpreted not literally, but there was like interpretation. Now the myths have been changed, sadly, since the ancient times, so we cannot take them literally now we have to take them with a pinch of salt. So it's really important to create this separation. Theology and mythology are different. Mythology draws from theology, but it's not the other way around. So who are the gods and goddesses? They are universal laws and functions. Think about every single function, universal function in this universe, the law of gravity. For example, the law of creation, the law of cause and effect, it was all interpreted by the ancient Greeks as a deity, as a god or goddess. And the way you worked with those laws of the universe was by identifying their virtues and embodying them into our lives. And that's where philosophy and religion come together. So, for example, let's take Aphrodite. Aphrodite. She is the goddess of these mingling, these sacred sects, this creation. So whenever there are two things coming together to create something new, that is the law of form that Aphrodite like rules over. And therefore she has the virtues of friendship and generosity. Friendship being the Christian version of love as well. Meaning treating everybody like as you treat yourself. So friendship and also the virtue of generosity. So by practicing those virtues on a daily basis, you become one. With Aphrodite, you embody Aphrodite. So that's one way to approach it. And another way is, of course, through ritual, which is very similar to what witchcraft does. The difference being with witchcraft, you aim to like use those energies to do something, to create something, to manifest, to like create move energy. Whereas with religion you're simply honoring. And of course, within the Hellenic polytheistic tradition as well, there was witchcraft, especially during like the latest Hellenistic years, we have the, uh, the Greek magical papyri that I love exploring right now. There's a lot of beautiful, weird spells in there, but again, draw from religion, but essentially at the core of it, Hellenic polytheism, the Hellenic ethnic religion, Hellenism. It's about having a relationship with the world around you, and a relationship that goes beyond the physical and recognizes the spirit behind things. That's why there are connections with animism that I know you are really passionate about, and seeing the sacred in everything, but through the lens of the ancient Greeks. And the final thing I want to share is this religion is an alive religion. What many people do in the Western world, and that's the main disagreement between the Greek Hellenic polytheists and Western non-Greek Hellenic polytheists is that many people try to reconstruct and they believe like, hey, for this to be a religion, we have to reconstruct exactly what the angels did. We do not do that. We we were evolving the religion. The religion has been alive in. There was there was continuity. It never ceased to exist, which has went underground for years because of persecution. And as a result, we evolve with the times. So now we don't sacrifice animals. For example, we make offerings of grains. And even in the the marriage ceremony that we did. We included aspects of the ancient Greek religion and how they did it, but we included new things as well, like the Handfasting, for example. That wasn't part of the original tradition, but we included it because we are an evolving, alive religion. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk. Perfect. Perfect, I love it. Yeah. If a listener has no clue at all now they do. Yeah. And I love that you touched on that. We can't take the stories and sometimes even the theology literally. I've seen too many people get so hung up on that in their practice that it stagnates them, or it creates hostility between views because things are just taken way too literally. And I, like you said, it's all evolving. It's it's a living entity of its own that's taking on What it needs to take on in the here and now to relate to us here and now. And I think that's something that we forget when we're talking about religion being this stuck linear. This is how it is. This is how it's always going to be. This is how it's always been. But if you look back, even Christianity, you look back. It's not been the same. It did not start the way it is now. And yeah, if you. Yeah if you feel like touching on more of that, go for it. Yeah. Or like the presence of dogma versus personal connection. Yeah. Because I think that's a big sticking point for people that when they hear religion they think the dogma. Mm. It's not that. And I mean, I get it, I get why people think about the ancient Greek religion as just mythology, because we grow up learning about mythology. Like, I had no idea the ancient Greek religion existed until twenty sixteen, where I realized, oh my God, there are like Hellenic polytheists out in the world. Like I was like in my twenties when I realized that up until that point, I thought of the religion through the lens of Xena the Warrior Princess and Hercules The Legendary Journeys. And Hera was this this bitch in the sky who hated Hercules and hated Xena and tried to, like, take revenge on them. So of course, when you grow up with those references, it's really hard to deprogram that and learn to to approach it as a religion and think about honoring Hera, for example, and not think about, like, those eyes in the sky that I remember from Xena, which I love, by the way. Yeah, or Zeus. I mean, he's literally on my altar right there. Did you see him? There he is. Yes, I can. And people every now and then he's in the background of a video and they're like, oh my God, I can't believe you can honor Zeus. And I'm like, look, Zeus from the myths is playing a role. Like I always describe it the way that Walt Disney described Mickey and Minnie and Pluto and Donald that they're actors. They have roles they can play in the stories, in the little cartoons that help us learn a lesson or enjoy entertainment, because myths were also entertainment. People get really hung up on them as some deep, deep, deep, deep wisdom. And it's like, well, yes, but they also were meant to be entertaining. We're talking about the ancient Greeks here. We had the Great Dionysia in Athens. We had theaters in every temple. We love entertainment. It's an act of reverence to enjoy the theater. Um, so yeah, Zeus plays a really rough, gross role quite often. But that is not Zeus. You know, Zeus is the like he's the the welcomer of the home. He's he's the US. Ksenia the hospitable and welcoming to to foreigners like he is. He's the divine masculine in its purest form, which is so hard to see out in reality sometimes. So I think people have a very hard time. It's an abstract concept to consider divine divide masculinity sometimes. But the times I've met Zeus in ritual that has been the strongest was in Hellenic polytheist rituals, because I think they do spend more time than the Western witchcraft world on who is Zeus? What is this God? Yeah, yeah. And when you see his virtues, it's justice and orderliness and that I mean those virtues, you can see them on a collective way and universal level, and also on a human level, justice and orderliness, ensuring that all the laws of the universe are working in alignment with one another, ensuring that the Earth keeps spinning around the sun and nothing stops. And it's all working out, ensuring that we all abide by all the same rules and everything is still working out. Order. That's what Zeus is one of the his main qualities and you know, it's used as Thunderbolt was also considered to be a god of of its own, and an analogy that I included in Secrets of Greek Mysticism and something that I learned is that this thunderbolt was considered to be this divine, creative energy. And if you think about the thunderbolt, it's like it's pure light and energy. So from a spiritual perspective, it's used as energy coming down into the earth to create something. So it's creative energy and there's so much depth to gain there. When you start connecting to the gods from their spiritual perspective and tuning into their love that they represent, rather than just seeing them through the lens of myths. And by the way, I am lucky and unlucky at the same time, in the sense that I was never really into the myths. Huh? So when I when I so I knew the basics, but I was never the person like, oh my God. I'm like obsessed with, like, Greek mythology. No. So I got into it. I was actually first into witchcraft, and I was a Wiccan when I was sixteen. And then I explored witchcraft. So I was more into that. And then I went into Hellenic polytheism, and therefore it was easier for me to learn the true essence of the gods without the myths, and then go to the myths and realize, okay, I can see why Zeus is interfering in that myth because he needs to maintain the order. So there are there are different ways to go at it. And depending on on your entry point into the religion, you'll have different obstacles, but eventually you'll get there. And that's why what I've done in, in the book is I created like affirmations, one affirmation for each God that helps people like embody the essence. And for I am safe and protected, which is so opposite to what you see Zeus doing in myths. But that's his true essence, protection and safety. And I used to teach English literature, so this is where I come from with this too, sometimes. But I think it's also important to remember that the myths were written for a social standard where like, if you're going to write a hero, he has to have certain qualities based on that society. So the versions of the myths we get have been written down pretty recently, like two thousand three hundred years ago, to maybe even only sixteen hundred years ago by the Romans. That's pretty recent for a culture that spans back eight, ten, twelve thousand years with evidence but not written evidence. And one of the failings, uh, that I think we have in the modern world is our stress on written word as fact. You know, it started in the Middle Ages where if something was written down, they thought it was more true than something they were told. And it's only gotten more and more that that way. Whereas oral tradition is a very valuable foundational knowledge, it's a truth. Most truths are better conveyed orally. In fact, like these myths. If you've ever been like honestly, yeah, I agree with George. I don't like this. I don't like the myths that much. I don't enjoy reading them. It's because they're really not supposed to be read. They're supposed to be performed. You're supposed to be around a fireside with somebody standing up behind the flames and, you know, showing you what hercules's labors were looked like. It's not supposed to be dry academic text. So yeah, I if you're if you're like, oh, I'd love to get into Hellenic polytheism, I'd love to work with Hera or Aphrodite or. But I can't get into the myths, so I guess it's not for me. Not true at all. Yeah. And that's like the beginning of theater. Theater was an offering to Dionysus, for example, and it was like performing all those myths. And I'm speaking from my I'm an actor as well. And I trained in like in here in Cyprus. So we have three years of ancient Greek tragedy and comedy. So I got to learn the history of, of theater. And it started from religion. It was an offering to Dionysus and then it evolved from there. I love it. I love doing these shows. I love sacred theater. I use it in all my classes because I think it's one of the things that opens us up to experience ritual spell work. You know, whatever your energy raising intention is, sacred theater is such a great way to raise energy. Anybody who's ever been in a theater production knows there is a container that forms around a production. There's an energy frequency you get on with each other that is intangible in other types of spaces. Actually, we all have theater background here. Really? Wow. Leandra, what did you do? I used to be a professional singer on stage, so I would do like, dinner theaters and stuff like that. So yeah, a long time ago. I'm a musical. I'm a musical theater actor. So that's another thing in common. I sing as well. Nice. I miss directing more than I miss acting, because I got into it for the acting and the singing and musicals and and then when I was teaching high school, I also directed. I was the theater teacher and the director for the after school productions, and that was that was my favorite thing I ever did in the theater world was direct. The world is shifting. Old systems are cracking, and the goddesses who hold both love and war are rising again. You have felt them. Inanna, Akadi, Aphrodite, the Calliope, stirring in your dreams, whispering through your rituals, calling you to step into your full power. The Red thread is a nine week journey into their sacred lineage, a guided immersion through myth, ritual, and sisterhood to reclaim your strength, your clarity, and your voice. We begin January twentieth. Twentieth. Join the circle and take hold of the red thread at a common thread. Or follow the link in the show notes. Six month plans are available and Early Bird ends December fifteenth. I have an experience to share because when I was when I was promoting Secrets of Greek Mysticism, when I would go on different podcasts, I would go on pagan podcasts, on witchcraft podcasts, and on New Age podcasts because I have a foot in all of these worlds. Okay. And I would go to new age podcasts and they'd be like, oh, this is like a little bit like paganism. I'm like, well, yes. And then I would go to pagan podcasts and be like, oh, that's a little bit like new agey. I'm like, well, yes. And then I would go to witchcraft podcasts and they would love it because. And that's what I love about witchcraft and witches. Like they accept everything. Like bring it in like let's energy. Let's let's work with it. Yes. And I love that aspect as well because I like doing that as well. Like I like incorporating things into into my practice. And another comment that I get from witches, and that's something that I want to ask you, both of you, is, I mean, more Leandra than at least because at least we've discussed this before. Like I get different kind of feedback from different communities. And the feedback I get from the witchcraft community is, oh my God, you have not included in the book. I am not buying this book. I can't believe you. You haven't included Hecate, and I can't picture a Hellenic polytheism book without Hecate. And I'm like thinking. And I'm talking to Alyssa. I'm like, she's not that important in the ancient Greek religion. I mean, she's part of our God system, but she's not like the queen of gods, like she's in witchcraft. So my question is, why do witches, why witches obsess with Hecate? I my opinion in my experience with it is because of really good marketing, because when we think about it, when you when you see TikToks, when you read books about witchcraft, they name very few feminine deities to worship or to align with or to work with. And Hecate is one of them. And that and recently it's been Lilith. Um, Hecate. Who else? Morgan. So those two, the Morgan and Hecate, those are the two that were, like, almost cattle driven to. And I don't want I'm not saying that disrespectfully, but we're literally there's a line that's laid, um, and then outside of that, if we're looking for a less dark deity, you'd go to Brigid, or you go, um, to Aphrodite, you go to, um, maybe, um, Gaia, just as a general sense of deity of mother deity and its very narrow scope. So I think that's what happens, is people think that this entity plays a much bigger role than they do, and they can in that individual practice. If that's who you follow. Sure. Then that's that's where your energy aligns. But in my practice, I was never drawn to those big two for the for the dark goddess type thing. I, I just never it didn't make sense to me. And I was always taught in my practice. You go to the deities that get the least attention, because then you're going to get more of their attention, if that makes sense. So I would go to the deities that didn't get a whole lot of attention. And, um, but I don't work specifically with the Greek pantheon. Um, yeah. So I think that's why I think that's why people think that Hecate is so important in the Greek sphere of things, because it's that that narrow point of view like, oh, well, if you're going to worship any dark goddess, it's got to be this one or this one. Yeah, I get it. And I mean, since I'm on a witchcraft podcast, can I share a little bit about like, Hecate from the Hellenic polytheistic perspective? Because I think it's going to give a new layer to people. So essentially the, the, the primary purpose of the Olympian gods is to guide people's journey of spiritual ascension through their many lives. And this is where philosophy comes into religion as well. There are different philosophical schools saying different things about the afterlife and the Orphic school, uh, platonic school that I belong to as well, believes in reincarnation, the journey of a soul. So from that perspective, the Olympian gods guide humans along their journeys and Hecate, along with Asclepius, are at the home stretch of this ascension journey that prepares souls for immortality. So after the, um, the immortal soul is perfected and it's guided by Dionysus, Apollo, Aphrodite, and Artemis in that specific order, and then Hecate comes in to help them ascend, like over their Ascension journey, and become like pure, immortal souls. And then during the Hellenistic years, that's when the Greco-Roman magic became very popular and Hecate came to be associated with witchcraft. So that's when Hecate came into the picture, when the, uh, the Greek potpourri, the magical potpourri came into power. And when there was this syncretism of different religions, including the combination of, like the Jewish religion with Christianity and the Hellenic religion, they all started coming together and witchcraft became popular. That's when the marketing, as you said, started with Hecate. And and by the way, and I do find connections of this modern rendition of Hecate with the ancient tradition in the sense like she's known as the, the goddess of crossroads. Again, you can see that she's guiding souls along their journey of ascension so you can see it very literally 3D, how she's helping us, like with crossroads and guiding our journey. Like working magick. But at the same time, you can think about it from the soul perspective of helping us ascend and perfect our souls as we move from lifetime to lifetime and as we ascend on our spiritual path. And I think a lot of modern witches, because they come from Abrahamic religions, namely Christianity, they think in terms of, okay, who's going to be my new one? God? And I don't think they consciously do that, but they come from monotheism. And so they think, okay, polytheism. Whoa, that's a lot of gods. I don't know how I'm going to get all of their favor, because Abrahamic religion says that God is omnipresent and always watching, and sin is a thing, so which there's no sin in witchcraft, people. Um, so they think all of that and they think, okay, well, I need to pick one new God. And of course it will be a goddess because it's not God, it's goddess now. So who will be my patron? There's this big push in, and I think it's fading in its power. But, um, especially when I first started teaching, people were really obsessed with. I need to find my patron deity. Who's it going to be? Oh, my God, I don't know if it's Apollo. I think it's Apollo. But now Hecate is calling me. And what? I can't have more than one God. And it's like, yes, you can. That's the point. We are polytheists. Um, so actually, let's speak to that a little bit. Like in ancient Greece, people did not really have patron deities. They might have had an ancestral patron. But, um, how did they actually engage with the gods and how do we engage with them today? Like how did how do you balance? Maybe that's a better way to frame the question, how do you balance a cosmology of Olympians and gods. Yeah, yeah, that's what I find as well in like, modern polytheistic communities. They're like, I'm a devotee to Artemis and I'm a devotee and I'm an Apollo devotee. And people ask me like, who are you? Like a priest, too? I'm like, I'm a priest to all of the gods. Like, what do you mean? Who's like, are you priest to Apollo? Are you? Priest. And they. They don't understand it. Like when I tell them. Like all of them, they're like. How? Because again, it's that that expectation that you have to choose one. So the way that the ancient Greeks practiced. And what am I talking about? The ancient Greeks. It was ancient Greek states, and each city state had their own calendar, festival calendar around the year. And the one that we use in the Hellenic ethnic religion, specifically the Greek wheel of the year, as I call it. It has twelve festivals around the year. Now the the the Celtic one has eight. The the the Greek wheel of the year has twelve. And this is based on the attic calendar and therefore what they practice in Athens. So we start from January and we finish in December, and there are twelve festivals. And each festival includes two main gods, well, one main god and then its opposite in gender. So if we're honoring Hera in January, we're also honoring her polar opposite, which is Zeus. So we always want to have the balance of masculine and feminine energy together. And then there is a purpose, a round these will of the year, which, by the way, it corresponds to a great degree with the Celtic one. So this is where I find like correspondence and connections. So we start in January with the sacred wedding setting intentions and starting the new year. And then we move in February with Anthesteria honoring Poseidon and Demeter. Then we have Asclepius in March with Athena and Hephaestus, and then we go to Harrisia for Pergola. The summer solstice. Dioscorea iraya. The autumn equinox. Heraclea materia. And then the winter solstice, also known as the Triasporin. So this is how we practice in modern times. We've taken that calendar and we have adapted it. We've evolved it to make sense to the present time. That's why we have the summer solstice, and we have the autumn equinoxes and all the equinoxes and the solstice has the ancient Greeks didn't have that. But we recognize the need for people to honor this, uh, like these parts of the year. And that's why we've adopted those into the religion, and we've assigned gods to them and virtues to them. So every single month you honor two different gods and also their associated gods. And in Secrets of Greek mysticism, I've actually laid out all of these, uh, the Greek will of the year and what each festival is all about. And like step by step guidance on how to, like, set up your altar and do the monthly festival for the gods. That's how you honor all of them. But of course you can have your patron gods. You can have favorites. I like my patron goddess, Apollo. It doesn't mean I'm a devotee to Apollo. And all I do is Apollo. And every single action I take is Apollo. No, like otherwise, it's very unbalanced from my perspective. If I were to just do things that Apollo would do, for example, and just practice Apollo's virtues and and and qualities. Beautifully said. Yeah, I think that's. And in in witchcraft, uh, until recently there was a push like I remember in my training, there was like a push to find your patron god or goddess god and goddess like you would have one of each. And um, so I actually do, I but I but it's a Aphrodite and Hephaestus is how that presents for me. But I also work with Apollo. I also work with Zeus. Like it? I agree, I think there's there's something to be learned from every day that you connect with. I think that's why public ritual is so important. Like people who practice only alone, only in isolation. At home, you miss a lot of what was the original intent behind the rituals that even modern witchcraft rituals are based on from ancient Greece? It's famously known that in ancient Greece there wasn't really a word for the religion. It was just life. It was just expected that, oh, it's thargelia better head out to the Parthenon and do a ritual like everybody would meet in front of the temple. Um, can you speak to that? Like to the communal nature of ritual and the power of practicing with others? Yes. That's the main aspect of the Hellenic ethnic religion. Hellenic polytheism is community. Everything was done for the city. Every city had its hearth that brought the city together. So here's how it worked. We know the hearth like the central altar. So the hearth in Greek is Hestia, who's also the goddess of the hearth. So literally, they connected the idea of the center of a house of our body, of the city, of the country to Goddess Hestia. Oh, that's how important community was to them. And there was. Let's take Hestia levels. Every single household had a central hearth dedicated to Hestia. That was the heart of the house, where the family would gather around to commune every single day to communicate, to eat together, to share with each other around the central fire. Again, that is the, the, the nuclear, uh, like, small low level aspect of of the present of community presence of community. And then we go into the city level and we have every single city had their own hearth, their own fire that was constantly lit, and it would only be extinguished if the city were to be taken by conqueror, for example. But it was constantly twenty four over seven lit up. And that was the hearth, the center of the city and the community. And there was a hearth of the entire like country. For example, there wasn't a the version of countries in the past, but I think at least I don't know if you correct me if I'm wrong. I think it was either in Delphi, in Delphi, that it was like the central hearth for the whole of like the Greeks, something like that. But it was again, bringing people together on a state level, for example. So everything that was done. Yes. The omphalos, the navel of the universe. Yeah. Delphi it is. I actually have it here. Oh, there it is. That is a little statue that I'm showing right now of the omphalos, the navel of the world. Uh, that was in Delphi. So community was important and communal practice was important. And of course, household practice was important as well. And that was up to the family to decide how they wanted to do household practice. But it was just part of the whole practice. The main thing was communal. And that's why we have all those festivals like the, um, the, the festival to, to, to Athena, for example, in, in Athens at the Parthenon and the Delphic Games and the Olympian Games and all of that. These were all like public ceremonies. Did you know that, for example, the ancient Greek tragedies, it was free to attend them? And everybody, all city members were allowed to attend. And the theater performances, because it belonged to the city. That's how communal everything was. Religion wasn't something separate. It was part of society. It was all interconnected. It was part of daily life versus now. We live in very different worlds. We're isolated from our community. We don't have community like egotism is promoted, it's promoted. And being an eclectic witch and doing a solitary wage, that's what I mean. Not eclectic, solitary wage and doing everything by yourself, which is beautiful. Okay. And I do it as well. And I was a solitary witch at some point. But when I discovered the communal aspect of practice and religion and ritual, something different opened up within me that I hadn't known. Was there this sense of support from the community? And then I start feeling that support when I was like, when the book came out, I got like many homophobic attacks online and my community came in and supported me. I did not expect them to. I was used to taking it, but they just rushed out and support me without even asking them. And I'm like, this feels nice to be part of a community. And it's not just religious anymore. It's more than that. And I think that's beautiful. Yeah, I think that is what's missing for people who practice solitary or don't join, because we live in this beautiful era where you can join a container online, you can have community in your home without leaving your home. It's it's such a gift. And especially thinking about, you know, America and its trajectory. And, uh, we don't know how much longer that will be allowed. You know, like, we are fortunate now in this moment to know it's possible. And I just want people to to have that gratitude and that awareness and to know that it has never been more important to step into community, into mentorship, into connection with others. Um, and I have some people that say like, oh, I feel so guilty that I only have these powerful, transcendent ritual experiences when I'm in circle with other people and I'm like, uh, no, that's normal. That's because you're feeling the energy of all these other people. You can't possibly raise the energy of a thirteen person circle or, you know, fortunately, I've even been in circles with hundreds of people. That is intangible with the words. I can't really put that into words. Um, how powerful that is to feel that much energy, that much focused intention being raised, that much love, like, really that's what we're raising is, is deep, deep, perfect love. Like in witchcraft, we call it perfect love and perfect trust. That's the foundational practice that that I hold in my practice. And perfect. Not meaning flawless, meaning whole, meaning you are giving it everything you are when you're in that circle, and when you're in a whole circle of other people doing the same, of course they're going to show up for you when you get attacked by trolls online like it is. So it is. There's great protection magic we can do at our altars, but the best protection magic we can ever have is love and trust with our community. Agreed? Agreed. So, George, can you tell our listeners where they can find you? Anything that's coming up for you? This episode comes out soon, I think. So anything you have in early twenty twenty six or even around the turn of the year. What I would love to invite everybody, if you're interested in Hellenic polytheism, can get my book Secrets of Greek Mysticism and the sequel Ancient Manifestation Secrets, that focuses specifically on Hermeticism as like a philosophical school within the tradition and where if you want a community, come join my membership. The energy work membership where we we do the energy work, we go beyond just cognitive healing to do energy healing, to deal with karmic stuff, to spiritual healing, manifesting with the energy field and basically raising energy and doing something with energy, whether it's clearing, whether it's healing and whether it's manifesting. You are such a gift to your students, to the people who know you. To me, I'm very grateful for you in my life. So thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so glad you got to meet Leandra as well. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. The listeners are gonna love this one. I'm so excited for it to be out. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. Thank you for coming on. Merry meet, merry part and merry meet again. Thank you for joining us on the Magic Kitchen Podcast. Please visit my website. Leandra. Com for news, information and more episodes. I'm Elise Wells. You can learn more about my current offerings and my upcoming retreats to Greece at Elyse Welles.com