EP34 Aaron Turner: Clarity of Mind and Relationships

Aaron Turner, Ph.D., reminds us with humor and wisdom that we're only ever up against our thinking and that we're always living in the experience of thought. It's powerful to understand how this is universal so as to not try to "beat the system". While we can't escape the way the mind works, we understand how it works so we can open to our deeper knowing and see beyond our conditioned thinking.  

Aaron learned this understanding from his uncle and aunt, George and Linda Pransky, and while he was skeptical of its truth and impact at first, after seeing George work with a couple, he was floored by his results. Aaron ended up joining the Pranskys' practice and helped countless people wake up to their innate capacity for clarity of mind, transforming businesses and relationships.

If we can see our upset as a symptom of our disturbed mind instead of something or someone outside of ourselves, we actually, ironically, free ourselves. When we understand how our experience is created and embrace the fullness of who we are beyond our thoughts and feelings, this impacts every area of life.

This episode explores:

• How the understanding behind the rewilding metaphor applies to everything
• Our ex-factor is how we relate to our thoughts
• It is freeing to stop blaming people and things outside of us for our feelings

Show Notes:
"I'm kickin' my ass do you mind?!": Jim Carrey in Liar Liar or a description of Aaron when he's believing his low-mood thinking
Cuddly Duddly of the 3 Principles: referring to Dudley Moore, an English actor and comedian, who came to be known as cuddly Dudley; also how Angus endearingly referred to Aaron for his charm and lovability

Aaron Turner has a PhD in Anthropology and worked with the Pranskys as the company's CEO for 10 years. Aaron has dedicated his professional life to applying the transformative potential of an understanding of the mind to our current challenges and limitations, highlighting the direct link between people’s state of mind and their outcomes. Aaron founded One Thought to bring an appreciation of this understanding to the mainstream. He has also been developing and providing practitioner training since 2014. Aaron has been a partner in designing the largest Three Principles conference worldwide since 2010. He is a founding board member of the 3PGC and is currently its president.

Angus & Rohini Ross are “The Rewilders.” They love working with couples and helping them to reduce conflict and discord in their relationships. They co-facilitate individualized couples' intensives that rewild relationships back to their natural state of love. Rohini is the author of the ebook Marriage, and they are co-founders of The 29-Day Rewilding Experience and The Rewilding Community. You can also follow Angus and Rohini Ross on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. To learn more about their work visit: therewilders.org. Read Rohini's latest blog.

Episode 34  features the music of RhythmPharm with Los Angeles-based composer Greg Ellis.

See full show notes here.

Transcript

Angus Ross (4s):
Welcome to Rewilding Love. This season is with a couple on the brink of divorce.

Rohini Ross (11s):
This is episode number 34 an interview with Aaron Turner.

Aaron Turner (17s):
I'm kicking my ass, do you mind?!

Rohini Ross (21s):
Thank you for staying with me.

Aaron Turner (24s):
Don't eat the yellow snow.

Rohini Ross (25s):
I don't need to be on a quest to always be feeling happy. I can be okay with the vagaries of my human experience.

Aaron Turner (33s):
One of the things that fascinates me about this understanding of the mind is how it applies to everything.

Angus Ross (39s):
I actually can apply this to anything, even if I'm pissed off at Rohini.

Aaron Turner (43s):
In our world, having a wonderful relationship after the first few months is not seen as an expected outcome.

Angus Ross (51s):
I love the idea that you were kind of there, like what the hell is going on?! and yet there was this incredible shift in this client.

Aaron Turner (1m 1s):
People's experience of their relationship is a symptom of their level of clarity, depth of mind, purity of mind, sanity of thought. And that's indicated by your emotions.

Rohini Ross (1m 11s):
Living in the experience of their assumptions, rather than the experience of reality.

Aaron Turner (1m 16s):
That solved my relationship problems in a single moment,

Angus Ross (1m 22s):
You are listening to Rewilding Love with me, Angus Ross

Rohini Ross (1m 27s):
and me, Rohini Ross.

Angus Ross (1m 28s):
Rewilding Love is a podcast about relationships.

Rohini Ross (1m 32s):
We believe that love never disappears completely in relationships. It can always be rewilded.

Angus Ross (1m 39s):
Listen in, as we speak with our guests about how they share the understanding behind the rewilding metaphor in their work

Rohini Ross (1m 46s):
And how it has helped them in their relationships.

Angus Ross (1m 49s):
Relax and enjoy the show. Aaron Turner has a doctorate in anthropology, Dr. Aaron Turner, and he came across this understanding. I think I just want to go. I actually, what I want to say is that his uncle and his aunt are doctors, Linda and George Pransky, who are kind of iconic in this understanding. And I think what's so fascinating about our installer Aaron's story to me is that he talks about going to visit his uncle and aunt and beginning to work with his uncle and aunt.

Angus Ross (2m 35s):
And I think because of his long and illustrious career in academia, I think that he talks about those early days as if like, what the hell are they doing and what's going on? Because I don't understand it from that vantage point, from what he'd already learned, what had already already knew. And yet there was something so interesting for him in the way that he explains it in the sense that he saw them having dramatic effects on people. And he eventually got very curious because he just couldn't figure out what was that dramatic effect? What was that X factor? So I think it was really fascinating to have someone who kind of came in with probably a bit of a cynical point of view, but nevertheless, but nevertheless kind of, I guess, drank the Kool-Aid and turned over to the other side.

Angus Ross (3m 23s):
But I love that story.

Rohini Ross (3m 24s):
Yeah, well, hopefully he was more, I think, more skeptical than cynical.

Angus Ross (3m 29s):
Yes. I guess that would be a better way, a better way of articulating it

Rohini Ross (3m 33s):
Because I think he had an open mind. That's all. I mean, he was just saying, wanting to couldn't see what they were doing. So we get to hear a little bit about that in the episode. And then in terms of his other work, he now is founder of one thought and he works with organizations and he really helps him to achieve breakthroughs through having greater clarity of mind. He's not going in there into the weeds. He's really helping them understand how the mind works so that they can solve their own problems more efficiently and effectively. And he also has a practitioner training. That's part of the one thought program. And he's one of the coordinators, one of the big, the biggest three P conferences in the world, which happens in the UK every year.

Angus Ross (4m 18s):
Yeah, I was, I was just reflecting on, on, on, on the ex factor if you like around Aaron and I don't know, he might not appreciate it. I know maybe he won't listen, but I remember years ago, I guess it was probably in the early eighties or late seventies, Dudley Moore sort of burst on the scene and kind of reinvented himself as, as you know, rather than being this sort of standup comic, it became this sort of international superstar. And I guess he was known as cuddly Dudley. I think Aaron is the cuddly Delhi, cuddly Dudley of the three principles and what I mean, but I mean this in the most respectful and nicest way, he is just so lovable and so charming.

Angus Ross (5m 4s):
You just cannot help, but love him and like him. And I think that in itself makes him so, so endearing and, and people kind of, I mean, this is sort of, you know, everybody likes Aaron Turner. He's like, well, you know, he's the sort of, you know, when you talk about, perhaps you talk about school systems and they have the popular kids, he is kind of like, he is the definitive popular kid and it's because he's so lovable and likable, and yet has this incredible level of insight around this understanding that that makes his teaching so profound. But I think the fact that, you know, one, his teaching is profound and then the other, the other thing is just so approachable and so down to earth, so comfortable in his own skin and just, you know, a wonderful human being.

Angus Ross (5m 53s):
I remember where he, he once got up, I think it was in LA. And I think that was one of those trainings, if you like, you know, a big deal in terms of the community, like a conference conference, that would be the, you know, I think that in doing this work, I think there has this been this expectation as far as I'm concerned that I have to, you know, I have to on occasion, get up in front of people and take the mic and talk. And I always had this sort of fear that I'm going to sort of like, forget what I have to say next. And I'll never forget that Aaron, and probably cause it was due to the fact that he's just jumped off a plane and was pretty jet lagged. He just kinda lost his train of thought. And I, in that moment would have wanted the stage to swallow me up and felt so awkward and awful.

Angus Ross (6m 38s):
And he could not have cared less. He's like, oh, where did that train of thought go? This is kind of like he, how he approached that situation. And it came back to him very quickly, but he seemed to have no thinking on it. And, and that for me is just sort of allow that, that sort of illustrates just how comfortable he is in his own skin and how he is such an effective speaker and teacher. And it's just that authenticity. I think everybody just, just loves. He's so genuine.

Rohini Ross (7m 5s):
I love Aaron's genuineness and how comfortable he is in his own skin too. I hope that someday I will have that experience as well.

Angus Ross (7m 13s):
Yeah, no, I yearn for that experience, especially

Rohini Ross (7m 17s):
In the front of a crowd like that, but what really stood out for me in this episode was just the clarity with which Aaron spoke to how clear it is to him, that we were only ever up against our thinking that we're living in the experience of our thought and our understanding. And we can't live beyond that. And we as humans, we don't escape that and that sometimes we can think that, oh, I'll get this understanding. And then I'm going to be able to escape the limitations of my assumptions and my thought, but basically that's what we're all living within, but we can wake up to that. And in the waking up to that, we have the opportunity to see something new and fresh that helps us live beyond that, but we don't ever escape it.

Angus Ross (8m 7s):
Yeah, I guess another, another way with Aaron, why we probably all love him is that he's just so present. And that probably he's president because he sees all of the above that you've just pointed out.

Rohini Ross (8m 22s):
And I think he spoke to it so beautifully with the examples he gave about how that shows up in relationship and how helpful it is to see that in relationship and what a difference it makes,

Angus Ross (8m 35s):
What a difference in understanding.

Rohini Ross (8m 38s):
Alright, let's listen to Aaron. Aaron, thank you so much for being here. Part of our podcast, we got to speak with your amazing wife Leila recently, and it's fun to have join us as well.

Aaron Turner (8m 58s):
Thank you. It's really nice to be here.

Rohini Ross (9m 1s):
Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that we learned in our conversation with Lila is that you started off your life as a practitioner doing a lot of work with couples. And we wondered if you'd be open to sharing how that came about and what that was like for you. Well,

Aaron Turner (9m 18s):
I'd love to do that. So one of the things that fascinates me about this understanding of the mind is how it applies to everything. And I've kind of throughout my, you know, years working in I've seen that. So I started when I started, it was at prince skin associates, which at the time most of the work was with couples and funnily enough, it was a intensive I sat in with on a couple that got me even interested in it. So I, I had been, I've been visiting George and Linda for a number of years because they're really lovely to be with.

Aaron Turner (9m 59s):
And there's such a lovely area of the world. And, and they, they had people might've heard me say this before, but they would put me in trainings and did nothing for me, nothing for me whatsoever. I thought, I thought it was all silly, but George had asked me to do some research for him. And I had insisted that I would sit in with him and we sat in with this couple. And what I saw with this couple is what I saw, what we did in our relationship work, which was revolutionary, absolutely revolutionary. And it was so effective in such a short space of time. The local hotel thought we were sex therapists.

Aaron Turner (10m 43s):
Yeah. So couples would turn up, clearly put off with each other, not wanting to have any time to give a check into separate rooms, opposite ends of the hotel, meet in the lobby and come to our office. And after two or three days, they'd be chit chatting, holding hands, they'd have canceled. One of their rooms. They'd sit in the lounge, having drinks together. So in our world, having a wonderful relationship after the first few months is not seen as an expected outcome, but yet this was happening to almost all the clients that we saw. So the hotels, like they must be sex therapists. That's the only, that's the only thing that can make people that happy that it must be.

Aaron Turner (11m 27s):
And I didn't know it was possible. And I didn't know how it works in my life. I wanted a relationship, but I just couldn't get them the work. I just could not get them to work. And it's not, it's funny now, but the harder I tried, the more of a mess came more quickly. So just to give you a sense of kind of how that work operated. So I would S I sat in with George with this couple, they'd had the, the, the, the, the, the woman in the relationship, but had an affair. She felt a bit guilty, but felt trapped by her.

Aaron Turner (12m 10s):
Husband's desperation to keep her in the marriage. He was kind of needy, but resentful, but desperate, but insecure and upset. They really weren't in a good place together. And the first meeting we sat down and they laid all this out. They laid out their problems like here's, what's wrong. And here's what needs fixing. And he is essentially, here's why I'm so unhappy. And I was sitting there with the normal model of relationship counseling, which is they're unhappy. They have these problems. You're the professional George, get to work, fix these problems, show them how to fix these problems, give them approaches like you help these people for God's sake.

Aaron Turner (12m 55s):
And, and in my mind, this went through my mind, oh, he just needs to see this. And she just needs to see that. So, you know, other people's problems are easy. So George doesn't say anything about anything that they said, he doesn't talk about how they feel. He doesn't talk about what they could do. It doesn't even talk about that at all at all. And the first 15 minutes, I was like, okay, maybe he's backing into it. Maybe he's edging into it. And when it became obvious that to me, he was talking general unrelated.

Aaron Turner (13m 36s):
Mumbo-jumbo just kind of tuned out when you get to the point, you know, white queen. And on the third day, this couple comes in looking like they've been on a seven week vacation. Wow. They're, clear-minded, they're cliff face. They look fantastic. They're really at ease with each other. They're holding hands, they're swinging their hands together. And that woke me up. What happened? What will happen to you? So they sit down and George is pretty pleased. You know, George, tell me what's going on.

Aaron Turner (14m 17s):
You know, and I swear to God, he says exactly what I was thinking on the first day word or not word for word, but 50, 60% of the words, oh, I just realized I want her to be happy. And actually I'd love it to be happy with me. But if she's not, then I want her to go be happy. I'll be fine. And then she does the same. She says pretty much what was clear to me on the first day in not such a different way, that kind of blew my mind because here were two people that didn't know what to do. They were so upset and they flew all the way across the United States of America. I know for a fact, nobody helped them.

Aaron Turner (14m 59s):
Nobody told them, nobody worked with them. Nobody worked it through with them. And here they are with the answer. And it's not even a problem anymore. I could not. That was a break in reality for me. Because up until that point, I was judging what George and Linda were saying. I'm thinking what I was thinking was better and what they were thinking was silly, but it was absolutely undeniably true that something I saw something happened. I couldn't explain. I just could not explain it. And when I CA I, I think I must have sat for the rest of the meeting like that, and then walked outside like that.

Aaron Turner (15m 42s):
And then George was like, well, what do you think? And I was like, that was amazing. They didn't know. And nobody told them. And then they knew, and in that moment, I kind of became a student of what they were doing. And what happened in that couples intensive is, is basically how relationships work is that when, when, when people have clarity and wellbeing, when they're in their right mind, the symptoms are that they, they, they, they, they they're, they roll with things. They're not sensitive. They don't get easily bothered. And when they do, they get either easily over it. And they have a natural appreciation and Goodwill and love and connection.

Aaron Turner (16m 22s):
And you have a very rich experience, right? So, okay. I happen to be at the gym the other day with a trainer and my mind was really free. And it was just a wonderful hour. You know, I felt like we had a really nice time to give, I was busting my guts out, but I mean, it was a really rich experience. And then there are times where I don't even notice him. Cause I'm so wrapped up in my thinking about what I'm doing and all of that. And it was George and Linda we're working with is that people's experience of their relationship is a symptom of their level of clarity, depth of mind, purity of mind, sanity of thought.

Aaron Turner (17m 4s):
And that's indicated by your emotions. So rather than seeing people's upset as a symptom of their problems with the assumption, if you solve the problems, they're going to feel better. They were looking at people's upset as a symptom of their, how disturbed and distorted their mind was. So all they did, which is why I didn't think it was to do with the problem. But George talked about the problem the whole time. But because I wasn't aware that it was a problem, it sounded irrelevant to me. And that problem was you're in no fit state to be listening to yourself. Do you know that? Why are you blaming on them? Your mind is upsetting you, your no fit state to take yourself seriously.

Aaron Turner (17m 47s):
Do you know that? And what's fascinating is as soon as wake up to that, all of a sudden they start taking their own upset and disturbed feelings and perceptions less personally, because it's just a fluctuation of thought. But more importantly, they stop being informed by them. They stop living their relationship. According to me, and even more importantly, they stopped blaming it on the other person. And as soon as that stops, there's nothing to stop them, taking their disturbed perceptions, lightly feeling better and having a fabulous relationship.

Aaron Turner (18m 27s):
So what, what the basic assumption is the everybody gets upset when they get upset, they hate their partner. When they feel better, they love their partner. When they feel better, they have perspective. So they don't really have troubling problems when they're upset, they're sensitive and they can't think straight. So they have troubling problems. Either. You see that as a symptom of your mind and you navigate it that way, or you blame it on your life and relationship, and then you're going to need some help. And you're gonna, you're gonna torture yourself with your own thinking in the name of the fact that it's someone else's fault or something else's fault.

Aaron Turner (19m 10s):
And there wasn't a single, there wasn't a single relationship that, that didn't apply that way, too. I even had a client, right. That called up and said, I need help. I can't stand my husband. Right. Which is, you know, we all have that experience. And I said, well, you know, I gave him my normal rep, okay. This lady buddy, which is, well, there, must've been a time when you first got together where you liked each other and did it. She says, no, there wasn't there wasn't, I've always hated him.

Aaron Turner (19m 51s):
I said, well, why did you get married? So she said, well, you know, I was religious. And he was a great pick on paper. And I had my heart set on getting married to someone that fit the criteria, but I couldn't be around him. It just made my skin crawl. So in order to go through with the marriage, I went abroad for the, for the engagement. She said, can you help? I said, well, I don't really know. The only thing I know is that he annoys you. And that tells me that you are not in a clear mind around him. And I know that if you were in a clear mind around him, you'd have Goodwill and you'd appreciate him.

Aaron Turner (20m 33s):
So I know for a fact you could be less reactive and more appreciative and have more Goodwill. I know that for a fact. And, and that's you listening to your distorted thinking? So she said, well, if that happens, will I fall in love with him? I said, well, I don't know that. I mean, I have no idea. So she said, well, if there's anything that might help I'm up for it. So she came to do an intensive, like the couple that you worked with, which was basically about stop blaming your judgmental, figure on him, not doing that. It's not going to be so annoying.

Aaron Turner (21m 14s):
And then all the reasons why she had that thinking came out, which are not really relevant, but it was useful for her to see, oh, I made that up. I had my own values. I had my own judgments and all that. So at the end of the four days, she says, you know, I can really see that. There's nothing to stop me feeling good about him. Why would I be irritated around them for more than the moment it takes for that thought to go through my head. But I can't imagine are actively look forward to seeing him. I said, well, who knows? What's possible in a clearer mind, which we just, you know, we get the, the, you know, the dark spots out the way, and then we'll see what happens.

Aaron Turner (21m 57s):
So it was funny because weeks later she caught up to see I was cleaning and I started to look forward to him coming home. And what blew my mind about that is that they stayed together and had a happy relationship and had kids. And, and weren't just like most relationship counseling is like, well, let's allow you to make it work. So it's not dysfunctional and unbearable actually, because we know what we know about where love and appreciation comes from and what gets in the way is just thought, there's no reason you can't have a very rich relationship. If you look, if you take accountability and look past your own thinking,

Rohini Ross (22m 55s):
And that's really pointing to how love is the natural state and what gets in the way of it is S identifying with all of the thinking that isn't our natural state, which is our condition state, what a great example.

Angus Ross (23m 10s):
Yeah. It's, it's, it's so awesome. I am also thinking about what you said about your experience in Lacona at that point in time where all of this was kind of, sort of unfolding in a way that was probably completely about completely outside of any reference point that you had in terms of, you know, how are they getting from point a to point B? And all I can see is, is George is just sort of indulged in this sort of light banter. I don't know how you would describe it. And I know that my, in my experience with George, it was so much emphasis put on rapport.

Angus Ross (23m 51s):
And, and so I now see and understand and value that. And, and, and I think it's kind of funny for me because in the work that I do at the treatment center, certainly during this period of COVID, a lot of the sessions were outside and there are people there who are not well-versed in this understanding. So they're kind of, you know, there are texts sort of floating around and I'm, I'm, I'm kind of, I think it's funny. Cause there are those moments when they're probably passing by the conversation that I'm having with, with a resident. And I'm probably talking about what they did on holiday or, or something completely unrelated to what they probably think that I should be talking about, but we're having a ball we're having fun.

Angus Ross (24m 34s):
And then I guess, and I, and I, and I, I guess I learned this from George is that, you know, you, you create rapport and then you sort of subtly sort of weave in the principles and then you hopefully get some traction and get some leverage there. But I love the idea that you were kind of there and like what the hell is going on. And yet there was this incredible shift and this client, what a beautiful story. Yeah.

Aaron Turner (25m 1s):
But it just shows you one of the things I've learned from that recently, Angus is we all have so many assumptions about reality that stop us, appreciating something new we might learn. So I sat, I must have sat in on seven trainings with George Linda, Judy Sedgman Dicken, Bettinger Sandy Kroll, Keith blob, all these people. And what I heard was that's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. That's what, and once I started getting interested in what they were saying, or when I took it seriously, I hadn't heard anything. So if you'd stopped and said to me, well, what's ridiculous era.

Aaron Turner (25m 45s):
And I'll say that, what did they say of, I don't know it was because it didn't fit my assumptions about reality. So we, we, we see with we're limited by what we think we know, and there's nowhere more in relationships. There are so many assumptions about relationships that you're not going to be happy forever. It can't go deeper if it happens to be great. Long-term, you're one of the lucky few and it's in jokes and it's in stories and it's in, you know, drama. And, and, and so it, it stops us seeing that, that more natural potential that you talked about. Rohini of like just falling in love, again, falling in love again and realizing, oh, it's me stopping me doing that.

Aaron Turner (26m 29s):
I'm the one that's buying into the thinking that makes it humdrum or annoying or sensitive, or, you know, one of the things that I've realized recently, cause it's gone away is one of the main things would get under my skin about my relationship. And Lila is, I was always thinking, it's not fair. It's not fair. So she would say, what, why don't you, blah, blah, nothing. I can never say that to you. And you'd be like, oh sure, no problem. I said, that's not fair. And then I would do in, that's not fair. And it's only when I stopped doing that, I'm like, wow, that was a lot of unnecessary pain.

Aaron Turner (27m 13s):
And of that thought, that thought it's not fair. I mean the same thing happens it's course it's not fair. Like nothing's symmetrical, but yeah, it's interesting.

Rohini Ross (27m 24s):
Yeah. And being able to see it for ourselves. I mean, we, I don't know if we've talked about this much in our podcast in terms of how our relationship changed. And when Angus said was that Rohini calling you, Erin is not really, he calling you. I really believe for a long time in our relationship that we weren't a good fit, that I couldn't be happy with him. And it really looked to me that his behavior was the cause of my upset. Like it just was obvious. And if he changed, I would feel happier and talking about those concepts in reality, it's not talked about in a mainstream way, how the outside world doesn't cause our experience, it's not talked about how our relationship with our thinking is where experience comes from.

Rohini Ross (28m 19s):
And so I could get away with that for years because many people I talk to them and say, yeah, I can't believe you put up with that. I can't hear as well. What are you doing with him? Like it gets bad.

4 (28m 31s):
I'm not going to give any names.

Angus Ross (28m 33s):
Should I not be inviting to dinner? I want the names. I believe you did the same thing.

4 (28m 44s):
I still get distracted here.

Rohini Ross (28m 47s):
I just think it's such an important point that people don't realize that they're walking around with these assumptions about reality, that aren't true and they're living in the experience of their assumptions rather than the experience of reality.

Aaron Turner (29m 1s):
And so, yeah, so we're looking, so we look in the wrong direction.

Rohini Ross (29m 20s):
It's so true. Yeah. And I know your career, Aaron has gone from, you know, being in the U S working prancing associates, working, you know, all different levels with them. Going back to London, having one thought is your business working with organizations. And now you also have your one thought practitioner training program. So one of the things that I'd love to hear you talk more about is working with practitioners because that's one of the things that I love to do as well. And it's really different. I would imagine in terms of your training program versus what you might've seen in a traditional counseling training or a traditional coach training.

Rohini Ross (30m 1s):
And so I'd love to hear more about how you approach training and developing practitioners.

Aaron Turner (30m 10s):
Yeah. So when I moved from prince skin associates to, to London, the principals were just starting to get popular and lots of people wanted to train, but there weren't many people that had a lot of client experience. And one of the things that fascinated me about the principles very early on was that, oh, I'm living the limits or the potential of my understanding, right? So, and that solved my relationship problems in a single moment was like, oh, my mind is making me feel bad. If I blame it on my relationship, I get righteous and attack the relationship and ruin it.

Aaron Turner (30m 55s):
And if I don't, there's nothing to make me approach the relationship in a disturbed state. So there's nothing to mess with my relationship except me. And the only reason I would do that is that I mistake a thought, a perturbed impulsive thought for a reality. And I'm wise to that, you know, not as wise as I thought I was at the time, but why is it enough not to do it for weeks on end? And, and that idea that I'm living in the ripples of the thought that I'm having and the thought that I'm having disturbed that determines how dysfunctional or insightful my view of anything is, and I've approached.

Aaron Turner (31m 41s):
I mean, for, for the most part, I just approach life from work as if that's the only thing you need to know. The only thing you need to know, what if that's the only thing you need to know and you get insecure and you think, oh, I might need this and they might need that. And what about this? But if you treat that like what it is, oh, that's insecure thought that's never very informative. And then you get a clearer thought. It's true. You always, you always, so that's been, my orientation for practitioners is do they know that's all they need? Like, do they know that their feedback system is telling them about their relationship to a pure, a spiritual intelligence or to the misleading vagaries of their own thinking?

Aaron Turner (32m 26s):
Do they know that? Do they do they, is that an orientation in their work or not? So what's really interesting about training practitioners is everybody's preoccupied by what they should be doing and what they shouldn't doing. And that is just totally irrelevant because if you're considering that there's a universal, infinite, pure spiritual intelligence at play, that's all you need. You know, that if you got a good signal, you're good. And if you got a bad signal, you know, you know, and, and, and, and really seeing that as a foundation. And I think once people see that as a foundation, every time they get stumped, they'll learn every time they make a mistake, they'll learn because they're going back to the real blueprint and they're going back to the blueprint.

Aaron Turner (33m 16s):
So you're always learning. And it's so organic when you get stuck or you make a mistake or you're out of your depth, and then you go back to the principles as a blueprint, then you spring forward, cause you learn what you didn't see at the time, which is why you stumbled or, you know, you know, got, you know, intense or whatever it happens to be. And there's something very organic. So it's all just learning. But life is a feedback system for learning work with clients is a feedback system for learning. And the challenge for practitioners is they've grown up in a world that believes in skills, knowledge, approaches, behaviors, tactics, strategies, and those are completely limiting and unhelpful and empty vessels when it comes to anything really.

Aaron Turner (34m 2s):
I think, cause like we worked with this is, and when the state of mind changes the same business with the same people, the same strategy, the same technology, the same hours in the day, the same budget starts just flying. Like their revenues go up. The, you know, nutrition goes down, everything changes. So this vital unseen dimension, that's driving everything and practitioners, that's your reality and you need, and it's just getting a sense of when you step out of that reality and you start explaining things other ways, that's where you gotta be hip to. And then so you can come back. And so it is very different to, to other approaches.

Aaron Turner (34m 45s):
And sometimes when we have therapists on our course, they're like, yeah, wondering when we were going to start the trade.

5 (34m 51s):
They like you in that session with George. Yes, seriously.

4 (34m 56s):
I think I'm on the wrong course. What happens is

Aaron Turner (35m 0s):
As they start to settle down and understand it better, the best comment of this was like, when I joined this course, I was wondering, how do you talk about the principles? How do you introduce them now that I see them everywhere. And I see them in such a more fundamental, I don't know how I couldn't. And that's the shift you're looking for. We've a practitioner training. And the challenge is it must be like 10 to 20% of people that come in looking for that. So people are not looking for what they need. So when they join the program, I'm like, now look, this is how it works. It's a deeper understanding that you're looking for.

6 (35m 41s):
Yeah. No problems. What do you do if this app

Rohini Ross (35m 60s):
And that's how, like you said, at the beginning, this applies everywhere because it's always at play that everybody, whether they have, they think they have an issue with a relationship, whether they think they have a problem with their boss, whether they think they have an issue with money, they're all up against their state of mind and thinking, and yes, there are realities happening that they have a boss, they have a certain number in their bank account, but that isn't, that the thing that's causing the suffering. Yeah. And people really don't see that.

Aaron Turner (36m 33s):
I know. And it's the same as the relationship thing where it's like the reality you see and feel when you look at your bank account tells you what your state of mind is. It doesn't tell you anything else. And people get confused because they're like, oh, that tells me I've got money problems or relationship problems. And then you get caught in that thought cause you basically trust it and buddy up to it.

Rohini Ross (37m 1s):
And what, what happens when we think the problem is, let's say, we think the problem is our partner because of the natural creative intelligence that we have one we're going to see everything that's wrong

5 (37m 13s):
With our partner and get really good at seeing that.

Rohini Ross (37m 16s):
And two, we're going to try and solve for those problems. That aren't really the issue. That's creating the pain in our life. And we can, I will admit I was really good at doing that and spent a long time trying to change Angus,

5 (37m 29s):
Dragging you to workshops, thinking that was going to be the answer and looking at ways that I could help you

Rohini Ross (37m 37s):
Be different. And, and all that did was really damage the rapport and Goodwill in our relationship, me thinking the problem is him had him feel unappreciated, had him feel criticized and the resentment built up in. It's not like he wasn't doing the same thing with me. He just didn't have such a vengeance about

5 (37m 58s):
That. I think I just had a lot more willpower and stamina to football.

Angus Ross (38m 2s):
I wasn't in such a rush as

5 (38m 4s):
You were like, life's pretty good. I don't know what your problem is. You're not perfect, but you know what you'll do sometimes you just get really annoying, but oh, well

Angus Ross (38m 19s):
Thank you for staying with me. I just, I think the, the, the journey that you've been on apart from anything else, it's like, I think there's so few people out there who've spent whole adult life, you know, and I know you've been around a little bit now. It's like, I don't want to, I'll ask you how old you are. All of a sudden, happy to say, but how incredible that, you know, you, you learn from them, you know, that list of people that you said that you were able to, to sit in on and, and for, for, for spending your whole adult life, teaching this understanding, I mean, that puts you in such a unique position.

Angus Ross (39m 3s):
I, you know, you won my mind. You're one of the best teachers that's out there and I know that's not, and I know I'm not alone in that, in that feeling. So you've, you've seen how this understanding you seen, how state of mind is just now for you. It's just, it's just so obvious, like for what you're saying, and for me being relatively new to this understanding, I do come up against that sort of point where people are, you know, maybe they've had an insight or maybe they have a, you know, maybe they kind of understand it, but more of an intellectual way. So we probably use, I don't know, there's sort of cliche terms like, well, you know, you, you have a check engine light that comes on, it's kind of like, you know, you've got to be more hip to your feelings.

Angus Ross (39m 49s):
It's like, it's telling you something, it's an indicator, but it's kind of in, in the moment, it's kind of really hard to discern why or what is my indicator here? What is it telling me? Or to even, you know, how do you get hip to that? And there are times when I feel like, and I've said this before, it's almost like, I'll have a moment where I know that I'm caught up, but then maybe it's my ego. It's almost like it's hot, got a whole legal team working on the small print, trying to figure out how it's going to support the fact that, yeah, it's absolutely a problem.

4 (40m 22s):
We don't see

Angus Ross (40m 23s):
It any other way. Come on. And so it's kind of like you're up against your old programming and conditioning. And so it's hard for people in the moment when they're experiencing that flood of emotions that jet fuel is causing through their system, that flight or flight, whatever it is is kind of like, yeah, I do feel like my ego is like, yeah, you know what it's like, okay. This is one of those situations where this doesn't hold any water. Yeah. So, so, you know, I love the fact that you've have such amazing grounding that now is just like, so sort of blatantly obvious to you. It's becoming more obvious to me, but it's like, it's, it's really interesting to be with a client or be with a resident in the treatment center and sort of trying to sort of help them understand is like, yeah, you just, it is about awareness.

Angus Ross (41m 9s):
It's not something that you get to put in a tool belt here. And I think that that just for me is still that's, that's the exploration.

Aaron Turner (41m 19s):
Yeah. Well this, I don't want to ruin your, your image of me,

4 (41m 24s):
But, but, but me

Aaron Turner (41m 26s):
Too, that's the interesting thing that's really surprising. It's like thought is so all encompassing. It's so visceral. It's so physical. It's so emotional. It's so perceptual. It's so instantaneous, it's it? That, that I run with it. I run with it too. And the thing is, I've noticed the difference between people that have been involved in this a long time in a short time is people that have evolved in a short time. They're going to beat the system.

4 (42m 0s):
That's so funny. Yeah. I'm almost there one day.

Aaron Turner (42m 6s):
And then when it, when they figure six months, I'm doing great and then they get carried away to fill it. They get really down about it. Oh, what's wrong with me? And if you listen to people that get involved more, they're like, oh yeah, that happens. Oh yeah. Yeah. That happens. Yeah. I get totally lost. Yeah. Check, check this out. Like I could tell you stories from the past year, like, you know, Lila and I properly fell out with each other for a good few weeks. And I was utterly committed to my resentment around how unfair it was. And she was utterly committed to her resentment about whatever bogus things she was worried about.

Aaron Turner (42m 48s):
And we just, we would not, we would not come out of our corners and it was hellish hellish. And know that it's, it's almost like if you approach that with understanding, call it what it is, label it, what it is, you know, just stick the label on it. Oh thought, oh, commitment to thought, oh, righteousness about thought, oh, you don't have to do anything because there's nothing you can do, but it's just being willing to let yourself consider what it really is. And as a result, the implication is what it really not.

Aaron Turner (43m 30s):
Yeah. You know, and that's all you need. And, and because you can't eliminate thought and you can't control thought, but because it is thought it doesn't, it's not, it doesn't matter the way we feel it matters. So if you talk to, you know, we're exactly the same and we're all kind of, kind of helping ourselves reveal, what's really happening. That's not as bad and serious as it thinks as we think. And it's just going back to, oh, okay. I've got these three labels, mind consciousness, and thought it should go on everything.

Aaron Turner (44m 14s):
It doesn't go there. This is the workplace conflict where maybe they have thought, yeah, it's their bogus thought. Would you have thought? Yeah, I must do. Yeah. And as you, As you do that, you get oriented and you can still be utterly pissed, but it's just not the same. Yeah.

Rohini Ross (44m 33s):
Yeah. And there's a relaxation that happens in that when we realize we can't beat the system, like I loved realizing that it's like, oh my goodness, I don't have to keep working at trying to beat the system. This is great. This is just what it is. I'm going to get crazy all my life and I can be okay with that. I can sign up for that. Yeah.

Angus Ross (44m 53s):
I absolutely love that. I think that's going to be so helpful when, when I do get caught up and think you're being tremendously annoying. Hopefully at some point I'll be telling myself, you're just trying to beat the system here. It's nothing to do with Rohini maybe, Hey, maybe that is finally a tool, you know, that I can put in my toolbox.

Aaron Turner (45m 15s):
Yeah. It Reminds me of, do you ever see that movie liar liar with Jim Carey love that it might be my favorite movie all time, but he can't lie and he wants to get the court case postponed. He goes into the bathroom and he just beat himself up. Cause he, Cause he's going to go out and tell them that the crazy man in the bar from beat me up, which is actually true, Promote himself against the radiator bagging, his toilet rig himself up. And this guy comes in and he looks, and he turns around and he's got blood on him and tissue, I'm kicking my ass.

Aaron Turner (45m 57s):
Do you mind? That's how I feel.

Angus Ross (46m 1s):
I feel like I'm beating my ass. I like to think that I sort of kind of have crossed that threshold because I think when I first learned this understanding and I probably want to, the was one of those people thinking that I can beat the system and then there would be those moments where I get upset with you. And we would really, I would fester in that experience sack for probably a long period of time. And then I would totally beat myself up for, for, you know, for the fact that, oh, this is just yet another thing that I've learned that doesn't, you know, it doesn't work.

Angus Ross (46m 45s):
And obviously I, you know, I need to go and figure out or learn something else, some other new philosophy. And then now I just sort of like, what I, what I love now is I do have those moments and it happens quite often. If I do get upset with you, there reaches a point where I'm just realizing, it's like, oh yeah, you know what, in a sense, it's like, I am trying to beat the system. I kind of know what's happening. And then it kind of all seems comical. It does seem like Jim Carrey beating himself up in the bathroom. And then I kind of see the humor in it. And it's kind of fun to sort of get to that point where one minute I'm like this sort of rabbit beast ready to sort of really take you down. Nice is like, this is just pure, comedic gold.

Aaron Turner (47m 27s):
That's a good, yeah. It's such a good example of it. It's really helpful to be like, oh, do do I see the lightness in it or not? Oh, I must be totally on a tear then. Right? Yeah. This doesn't look funny. I must be on a tear now, but then it, then you don't that doesn't always occur to you. So you kind of like, you know, we're all, we're all in the thick of it. Yeah.

Rohini Ross (47m 53s):
Yeah. And I think it's also reassuring that you, us, we all still get caught up in thought and yet looking at my life, what I do see has made such a tremendous difference. Like I, don't not, I don't need to not ever be getting caught up in thought in order to have a pretty amazing life compared to the life that I was living before. And that was because my internal life was just very dire in the way that I was caught up in all of those misunderstandings, in my consciousness about who I am, what I needed. And fundamentally, if I drill down, it was just a misunderstanding about where my wellbeing came from.

Rohini Ross (48m 33s):
I thought it came from outside of me. I didn't realize that has been there all along and I don't need to feel it now all the time in order to be okay. I don't need to be on a quest to always be feeling happy. I can be okay with the vagaries of my human experience and still know the fundamentally I'm okay. And that's really liberating.

Aaron Turner (48m 55s):
Yeah. It really is. It really is. It really is. Yeah.

Rohini Ross (48m 59s):
And the other thing I wanted to mention, because I'm imagining people listening to this might underestimate, I know certain of my clients underestimate this, but when there isn't a technique, when there isn't a strategy that we're giving people and it is really simply understanding where their experience comes from and the role that their state of mind and thought plays in that, and that they have this access to this spiritual essence of who they are like simply understanding that is enough to have a significant impact on interrupting those identifications with condition thought like, that's it, it's simply seeing that.

Rohini Ross (49m 44s):
And I think people find that hard to believe because often I get asked the question, well, how do I do that then? Like, I, I hear what you're saying and they're getting it on an intellectual level. Like, yeah, I get that. My experience is coming from my thought, but how do I stop these thoughts? And I'm like, it's not, you don't need to stop the thoughts. You just don't need to buy into them so much.

Aaron Turner (50m 6s):
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. I mean, I think I totally agree with you. It's like people want to do something with thought because they've already given it a lot of credence. So they're suffering the credence that they gave the thought. But for example, let's say you think, oh, I'm no good at this. And then because you have that feeling, you think, oh, I must be no good at it. And you're like, well, I got to get rid of this thought cause I feel rotten. But the fact that you feel rotten means you treated the thought, like it was a reality. And that's the only thing that makes a difference. Trying to ignore a thought that you believe in is it complete waste of time, utterly impossible.

Aaron Turner (50m 48s):
And even if you do manage to get it out of your head, you believed it already. So it's already had its way with you. It's already effect. So it really is such a false idea that doing something with the thought will help you because it's the way you listen to the thought that affects you. I mean, we have thousands of thoughts that we think are stupid or funny, or like I was, I was standing around the water cooler at work one day and someone came in and they said, oh my God, I had the most disturbing experience on the weekend. I was driving along the scenic drive and this scenic drive goes along a mountain side, kind of hillside.

Aaron Turner (51m 28s):
And I had the thought, what would happen if I veered off? I think there's something wrong with me. I'm am I going to kill myself? So one of the people sitting in one of the dresses, oh yeah, I have that thought too. I feel it's really funny. And then someone else says, yeah, I have that thought too. But I figured it doesn't really mean anything. And you realize, oh, it's not the thoughts. It doesn't do anything. It just features on your screen at some point. And then yeah. And then your senses. And then it's how we take that, how we relate to it, which comes down to what you think it really is. Do you think it's an insight?

Aaron Turner (52m 8s):
Do you think it's a window on reality? Do you think it's made up? That's what matters? That's what makes the difference. Yeah, but we, we, we live in a world that treats thought like it's an independent

Angus Ross (52m 24s):
Object, so you got

Aaron Turner (52m 25s):
To get it away from you and you'll be all right. Good luck with that. Right. Seriously. Yeah. Seriously.

Angus Ross (52m 49s):
It's funny. You should say that because that's, that, that was one of my yeah. Buts around this understanding is that I had this tremendous fear of Heights and that was the issue for me. I would be on the side of a mountain and, you know, coming to the states and there are proper mountains here with no barriers on the side of the road and then fricking high up. And I would have that thought that I'm going to drive over the edge. And it was just impossible to get that out of my mind until I really learned this understanding and realize, oh, I don't really have to take that seriously. Actually, I don't even have to hop on board that train of thoughts. And then I had an entirely different experience. And that was, that was ultimately a defining moment for me to realize it's actually gonna apply this to anything, even if I'm pissed off at Rohini actually I don't have to hop on board that train of thought.

Angus Ross (53m 38s):
And that's what got me through. And there was another point around Heights. I think when I learned this understanding where I thought that I kind of like, you know, I can see it's my thinking, ah, I've got this now. And then I think we were in Srilanka on that sort of very sort of like, I guess you would call it a mountain of sort of rickety fire escape that sort of went to the top of it. And I'm thinking, oh, it's just my thinking. And I put, I was purposefully trying to sort of like substitute that for, for a more positive one did not work. So I think It was me trying to sort of manage my thinking. And a lot of people I think, think that, oh, if I'm having bad thinking, I need to sort of substitute it.

Angus Ross (54m 19s):
I need to manage it. I need to control it. And, and, and for me, that's my greatest reference point. Oh, it's just awareness. I don't have to take that seriously. And I don't even need to give it any, I don't even need to throw any oxygen at it. I just kind of, I can kind of leave it alone. I think it's maybe sometimes it's hard to leave it alone, but I certainly don't need to give it the value that I once gave it. And that's been huge.

Rohini Ross (54m 42s):
And you had a lovely Sri Lankan, gentlemen, hold your hand up the mountain.

Angus Ross (54m 48s):
They put his hand up, put his hand on my shoulders. I thought it was like this sort of saintly altruist. And at the top of the mountain is like trying to extort all this money out of me. Well, he had helped you. He did help me. I bought some money, but I didn't give him enough in his estimation. It did the trick.

Rohini Ross (55m 9s):
You obviously, weren't the only one having that experience. So Aaron, we have some personal questions that we ask people that are in relationship to, to just kind of see the human side of relationship. Are you open to Us playing with you on that level? And if you don't want to answer any of them to say, Hey, skip that one. But the first one is, what's one of your fondest memories in your relationship. And this is kind of improv. It's like, whatever comes to mind

Angus Ross (55m 39s):
Thinking on it, don't put anything in on it. It's funny.

Aaron Turner (55m 43s):
Cause when Leila and I first got together, we kind of really just clicked. It was before I knew much about the principles. Maybe this was after I'd started learning about them. Cause that's what allowed our relationship to break out of the normal pattern of my relationships and also hers as well. But I remember her parents had a farm in Wales, which I thought was awesome because it was it's countryside. It was just gorgeous. And I remember we were down there and we went for a walk across the fields and we just sat down in the corner of this field. And she, she was sat behind me and I was leaning on her and I had a piece of grass in my hand and it was just bliss.

Aaron Turner (56m 27s):
Just what a bliss. And it was so rich. Like it, it really blew me away really that, that was such a rich experience of bliss. And I don't know, quiet meaningfulness and nothing was happening. Nothing's happening. And yeah, even now it's like, oh yeah, that's a no brainer at that time.

Rohini Ross (56m 51s):
That's beautiful. Love that.

Angus Ross (56m 52s):
What is one of the funniest memories in your relationship?

Aaron Turner (56m 57s):
One of the funniest memories in our relationship? I I, no, no, no. I'm trying to think of it. I haven't, we, I never have funny.

Angus Ross (57m 9s):
I'm sure you have plenty on an hourly basis in your household.

Rohini Ross (57m 12s):
It's just the norm. That's why nothing standing out here in the bathroom, beating yourself up like Jim Carey. Think of anything as we go. That's fine. We'll put That one on the back burner. How do you divide domestic labor in your relationship?

Aaron Turner (57m 33s):
Oh, well this is easy. We used to, we used to divide. I dunno how we used to divide it, but there was a lot of misgivings away. We used to divide it. That Leila was doing too much tidying up. I wasn't doing enough tidying up. So we used it. We used to try and divide it based on our gripes. That was upset, Was a push the domestic tasks to someone else.

Angus Ross (57m 58s):
Really. Wow. That's a good, that's a good methodology.

Aaron Turner (58m 2s):
I like that. So now We just do it based on, I guess, what people are into. So a couple years ago, Lila realized she hates cooking and because she hates cooking, nobody really likes when did she go? So I started cooking. So I just, I pretty much do all the cooking. We both, we both do almost everything, but there are things that Lila does a lot more of because she's more proactive. Like she, she, she, she kind of on it a lot more like a washing. I do a lot more keeping things.

Aaron Turner (58m 44s):
Like I kind of do a lot more keeping things, tidy air and be a bit more proactive on that, which coming into the relationship was not in my world at all. And I'm proud of myself that I've kind of find that easy now. And then, and then parenting, I think we kind of, it's quite fluid. I think we, you know, zone in and out, depending on what seems most appropriate. And then sometimes we get all heads up about it and we get at odds about it.

Rohini Ross (59m 18s):
I know Angus and I with parenting, we try to have the sanest person talk to the kids.

Aaron Turner (59m 24s):
Yeah. That is a good,

Angus Ross (59m 27s):
They go weeks without any human contact. Right.

Aaron Turner (59m 33s):
Or you guys arguing about it on the site.

Rohini Ross (59m 38s):
I've had that conversation because I think you're really angry. I'm not angry. This is how it needs to be done. I'm really clear. No, but there is there

Aaron Turner (59m 51s):
Parenting is interesting because it really shows you there's those, those Juul impulses. There's, there's the logic of wisdom and a quieter mind, which is very feeling full and rich and connected. And there's a real impetus in that. And then there's that other impetus of light, intensity and reactivity and, and in a way that's all there is, is. And, and it's funny how parenting is a really good example of how each one works. Like one, one ruins, everything. And one Reading helps everything. You Think there's a pattern to this? I dunno. Just carry on.

Rohini Ross (1h 0m 31s):
It's amazing how we can be slow learners in that and how we can lie to ourselves like that. Like, no, I'm in a good feeling. I can talk to her about it. I should be the one, like, I don't think so.

Angus Ross (1h 0m 49s):
How are finances handled in your relationship if you don't mind me asking? That's very British. Well, I do actually

Rohini Ross (1h 1m 3s):
Had asking for specifics, Aaron to speak

Aaron Turner (1h 1m 9s):
Because I mean, we've always, we've never really had any issues with finance. So we've ever since we started living together, which was kind of about a year after we got together, we've always had one bank account. We've always just considered it one pool of money. Sometimes one of us works more than the other. Sometimes someone isn't working. So Leila worked while I did a PhD. I worked when we were in Lacona and we've just, it's, it's just one of those areas where we've never really had any thinking about it, you know? And there are disparities, like there's disparities in earning there's disparities in spending, but we generally, it's generally in a non issue.

Aaron Turner (1h 1m 52s):
It's kind of like team turnout in goings and outgoings. That's great. I love that. Yeah.

Rohini Ross (1h 2m 0s):
So what would you say is the biggest misunderstanding that you woke up from in relationship?

Aaron Turner (1h 2m 10s):
Let me think about this. So I think the biggest misunderstanding that I woke up in relationship, but there's so many, there's probably four or five, but the biggest one was about contentment and well-being, that was the biggest one. And there were two parts to it. One is if I don't feel contentment and well-being the problems in my head, not anywhere else. I mean, that was an utter game changer and utter game changer. Like realizing that there are times where my mind is not on my side and there's a telltale sign, so, you know, don't eat the yellow stuff.

Aaron Turner (1h 3m 2s):
Okay. The listening to the gripey thinking and that it was an absolute yes, but linked to that, our wellbeing is a, is an experience of our own mind of our own essence. So there is no situation in which I can't have wellbeing by having a lighter relationship to my own distress thinking. And there's a way in which, in relationships, in all areas of life, but people get really bogged down in the relationship one because when you feel bad, someone else is doing something. So you can get really caught thinking.

Aaron Turner (1h 3m 42s):
I couldn't feel good until they stop it. And just that idea, it's not even just the idea, oh, I can set myself free from my suffering. And I'll know when I have, cause I'll feel fantastic. Not I'll feel better considering I'll feel plastic. So if Lila's really upset, really vindictive, really aggressive. Doesn't want to talk to me. That's got nothing to do with me feeling really good and it's not ignoring her. It's not ignoring the situation. It's just being willing to see, oh, I'm hanging on to thought, that's stopping me from having a freer mind.

Aaron Turner (1h 4m 24s):
And that was amazing because it meant my experience of Leila and my wellbeing and my relationship had nothing to do with her. It wasn't held back by her. It wasn't conditional on her. And you hear people say that a lot. Oh, well, you know, I'm looking at, obviously you have to have a relationship with someone that understands the principles, the leader wasn't into the principals for a very long time. And I knew I could have a great relationship if I was willing to not wallow in my own thinking. Yeah, no, it's amazing. And I knew it was true because I held myself to that standard and I discovered, oh my God, it's true.

Aaron Turner (1h 5m 10s):
Oh my God, it's true. And once you know, it's true, then it's not a theory. And there's nothing to argue about. It's like, yeah. You know, it's true. So stop, you know, whatever. I love that. That's so powerful. Yeah. That's going on the sizzle reel.

Angus Ross (1h 5m 31s):
So I, are you okay? We've got a couple more questions. Oh shoot.

Aaron Turner (1h 5m 35s):
Yeah, go ahead. I've got to jump on another call in a sec, but go ahead.

Angus Ross (1h 5m 38s):
Do you need to, we can make an executive decision to decide what's the best question. Well, it's

Rohini Ross (1h 5m 44s):
Up to the, and so if there was only one thing you could say to Leila, what would you want to say to her?

Aaron Turner (1h 5m 51s):
Oh, I love, I love her so much and I feel I've been very lucky that we were able to meet in this life and understand enough to be able to appreciate and enjoy each other's company.

Rohini Ross (1h 6m 6s):
That's beautiful. That is a lovely note to end on. Yeah. Thank you, Aaron. We'll let you jump off, but thank you so much. So enjoy speaking with you and really look forward to listening back.

Angus Ross (1h 6m 18s):
I feel blessed and it's a, it's a privilege. Talk to you, always, you so much.

Rohini Ross (1h 6m 27s):
Thank you so much for listening to rewilding love. If you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know by subscribing on iTunes. And we would love for you to leave a review there.

Angus Ross (1h 6m 39s):
iTunes reviews will steer people to this podcast who need help with their relationships.

Rohini Ross (1h 6m 44s):
If you would like to learn more about our work and our online Rewilding Community, please visit our website, therewilders.org.

Angus Ross (1h 6m 52s):
Thanks for listening. Join us next week.