We thought we would offer you a recap of season one of Rewilding Love before taking a summer break and take the opportunity to respond to a reviewer who requested we speak more tangibly about the understanding that informs our work.
Angus provides a beautiful and comprehensive description of the "Three Principles", one of the names given to the non-dual spiritual teaching revealed to Sydney Banks.
Our rewilding metaphor is informed by Syd's teachings, and we have been mentored by many of his original students. Rohini speaks to how this understanding helps relationships and why our work always begins with helping individuals experience a deeper connection to their innate well-being. The by-product of this allows couples to experience more love and understanding in their relationships.
We use the rewilding metaphor to describe and inform our work because rewilding captures the aliveness of being connected to our spiritual essence -- it's wild, it's messy, but like nature, it is always looking to optimize our experience here. It's always moving toward health and vitality.
Our next Rewilding Love episode will be available on September 13th. Until then, have a lovely summer, and we hope you enjoy your rewilding!
This episode explores:
Show Notes
Wheat from the chaff: chiefly a British saying that means to judge which people or things in a group are bad and which ones are good
Understanding behind the rewilding metaphor: the three principles of mind, consciousness, and thought, as described by Sydney Banks
Non-dual spiritual teaching: Nonduality is about oneness. It is expressed in various traditions but has traditionally come from India. However, it is not limited to India, because the core truth of oneness is evident in all traditions even though it may be expressed in different ways.
When you go beyond awareness, there is a state of non-duality, in which there is no cognition, only pure being. In the state of non-duality, all separation ceases. ~ Nisargadatta Maharaj
Altar boy: One of Angus's childhood roles
Angus Ross & Rohini Ross are “The Rewilders.” They love working with couples and helping them to reduce conflict and discord in their relationships. They co-facilitate individualized couples' intensives that rewild relationships back to their natural state of love. Rohini is the author of the ebook Marriage, and they are co-founders of The 29-Day Rewilding Experience and The Rewilding Community. You can also follow Angus and Rohini Ross on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. To learn more about their work visit: therewilders.org. Read Rohini's latest blog.
Episode 39 features the music of RhythmPharm with Los Angeles-based composer Greg Ellis.
We thought we would offer you a recap of season one of Rewilding Love before taking a summer break and take the opportunity to respond to a reviewer who requested we speak more tangibly about the understanding that informs our work.
Angus provides a beautiful and comprehensive description of the "Three Principles", one of the names given to the non-dual spiritual teaching revealed to Sydney Banks.
Our rewilding metaphor is informed by Syd's teachings, and we have been mentored by many of his original students. Rohini speaks to how this understanding helps relationships and why our work always begins with helping individuals experience a deeper connection to their innate well-being. The by-product of this allows couples to experience more love and understanding in their relationships.
We use the rewilding metaphor to describe and inform our work because rewilding captures the aliveness of being connected to our spiritual essence -- it's wild, it's messy, but like nature, it is always looking to optimize our experience here. It's always moving toward health and vitality.
Our next Rewilding Love episode will be available on September 13th. Until then, have a lovely summer, and we hope you enjoy your rewilding!
This episode explores:
Show Notes
Wheat from the chaff: chiefly a British saying that means to judge which people or things in a group are bad and which ones are good
Understanding behind the rewilding metaphor: the three principles of mind, consciousness, and thought, as described by Sydney Banks
Non-dual spiritual teaching: Nonduality is about oneness. It is expressed in various traditions but has traditionally come from India. However, it is not limited to India, because the core truth of oneness is evident in all traditions even though it may be expressed in different ways.
When you go beyond awareness, there is a state of non-duality, in which there is no cognition, only pure being. In the state of non-duality, all separation ceases. ~ Nisargadatta Maharaj
Altar boy: One of Angus's childhood roles
Angus Ross & Rohini Ross are “The Rewilders.” They love working with couples and helping them to reduce conflict and discord in their relationships. They co-facilitate individualized couples' intensives that rewild relationships back to their natural state of love. Rohini is the author of the ebook Marriage, and they are co-founders of The 29-Day Rewilding Experience and The Rewilding Community. You can also follow Angus and Rohini Ross on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. To learn more about their work visit: therewilders.org. Read Rohini's latest blog.
Episode 39 features the music of RhythmPharm with Los Angeles-based composer Greg Ellis.
Angus Ross (4s):
Welcome to Rewilding Love. This season is with a couple on the brink of divorce.
Rohini Ross (12s):
This is episode number 39, our recap with Angus and Rohini.
Angus Ross (1m 28s):
You are listening to Rewilding Love with me, Angus Ross
Rohini Ross (1m 32s):
and me Rohini Ross.
Angus Ross (1m 34s):
Rewilding Love is a podcast about relationships.
Rohini Ross (1m 38s):
We believe that love never disappears completely in relationships. It can always be rewilded.
Angus Ross (1m 45s):
Listen in. As we speak with our guests about how they share the understanding behind the rewilding metaphor in their work
Rohini Ross (1m 52s):
And how it has helped them in their relationships,
Angus Ross (1m 55s):
Relax and enjoy the show.
Rohini Ross (2m 10s):
Angus and I are going to be taking some time off this summer. And so we are bringing this set of episodes to completion with a recap episode with the two of us.
Angus Ross (2m 22s):
Are you, when you say we're taking time off, are we really taking time off? I know you will take time off and then things will happen. There will be things that need to be done and it won't feel like time off. I want to be clear, actually, there's now you're now you're now cementing this as far as I'm concerned, by putting this out there into the big wide world, we have witnesses. You say we're having time off. I'll get a hold you accountable.
Rohini Ross (2m 49s):
Well, our next new podcast episode won't be out until September 13th
Angus Ross (2m 54s):
Alright so there'll be some time off from the Polk coast pod coast?! I'm already thinking about coast. I'm already on vacation. I can't wait
Rohini Ross (3m 3s):
There will be time off from the podcast. There'll be time off from the blog. There'll be time or me taking some time off from my blog. There'll be time off from us doing the blog. So, I mean, I don't know what you're going to be doing with your time, but those activities we were taking a break from.
Angus Ross (3m 17s):
Okay. Okay. Well those, those activities do tend to take up a fair amount of fair amount of time, emotional time for me,
Rohini Ross (3m 26s):
They take up a lot of pre-Madonna energy we will, or
Angus Ross (3m 32s):
what will happen if I don't have that outlet for my pre-Madonna energy, come out in other ways that you might not like, what are you
Rohini Ross (3m 39s):
Going to melt down about? If you don't have those things to melt down about?
Angus Ross (3m 43s):
I don't know, I'll find something
Rohini Ross (3m 46s):
but we're not taking time off from the rewilding community.
Angus Ross (3m 49s):
No, we're not.
Rohini Ross (3m 50s):
So you will still be active there.
Angus Ross (3m 55s):
We wouldn't do that.
Rohini Ross (3m 56s):
And I'm still gonna be working on some creative projects because I want to do that. That's fun.
Angus Ross (4m 1s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's important to always work on creative projects, even if there's the odd amount down here. But anyway, we are during
Rohini Ross (4m 11s):
This episode, and this is going to be a recap episode to sort of remind people about our original premise for the recordings, with Ellucian Mateo, to talk a bit about some of the interviews that we've done, what we've learned from that process and anything else that might be relevant.
Angus Ross (4m 27s):
Yeah. And I hope we can do it all Sans meltdown. We should record one of my meltdowns one day. That could be a whole lot that might nip it in the bud once. And for all,
Rohini Ross (4m 39s):
See it's like it when they there's this experiment where they look at light waves going through a slit. And when the light waves are, watch their particles, but when they're not watched their waves, and that would be what you would be like, you would be having your wave melt down. But as soon as I put the recording device on, you would stop doing it.
Angus Ross (5m 5s):
Yeah. It is fascinating though, to think about the fact that we do this. Like, if we're doing this live, I have no problem with that whatsoever because I basically have to show up. I don't have the luxury of having any kind of creative meltdown, but if we're doing it with, with the luxury of being able to stop star, then for whatever reason, I, I get into my head and start to feel insecure and I just don't have the luxury to feel insecure. Isn't it? It's amazing. Isn't it? I mean, it's just, you know, in the bigger picture and the way that we look at things, it's like, yeah. When push come to a sharp, when we actually have to show up with a deadline and have to perform, we don't have the opportunity to sort of indulge in those insecurities. We just have to show up and do it to the best of our ability.
Angus Ross (5m 46s):
It's kind of like why I like doing it. Like I haven't mastered the art of doing it in the luxury of, of this format where we get to stop and start if we need to. And for whatever reason just allows me to sort of get into those insecure places.
Rohini Ross (6m 3s):
And it's funny, I have a completely different kind of programming because I feel like I'm more comfortable not being live to sitting here, chatting with you, feeling really comfortable that I have more anxiety. If we are doing something live,
Angus Ross (6m 18s):
I find that so bizarre. Why do you find that? I find it bizarre for myself that you'd think that I'd actually freak out doing it live, but I've learned to much prefer that. I much prefer that. Yeah. I don't think you freak out live.
Rohini Ross (6m 32s):
I tend to get more anxious doing something live.
Angus Ross (6m 36s):
I rise to the occasion.
Rohini Ross (6m 38s):
What do I melt in the occasion? Yeah. You come too close to my sun. Well, I don't really know how to respond. I didn't realize your ego is quite so big.
Angus Ross (6m 54s):
No, I have nothing but humidity. Certainly now in the wake of seeing how this is all unfolded, you've done a, you had an incredible vision. And I think that I might have doubted that vision from time to time, but it, nevertheless, the proof is now all in the pudding. It's, it's really struck a nerve with people, struck a chord, struck a nerve, struck a chord. I don't know, struck a chord. I'll go with that.
Rohini Ross (7m 26s):
Have you chosen notch? Yes. I'll go with that. Well, do I get to say I was right?
Angus Ross (7m 38s):
Yes. You can say you're right. And I will, I will eat a lot of humble pie here.
Rohini Ross (7m 45s):
Well, I have To say I'm so grateful for all of the amazing reviews that people have left and the ratings that they've given, it just really helps for the episodes to reach more people and hopefully help more people. And I've been really touched by how many people have, let us know whether it's through the reviews or emails or various other ways to communicate with us, how much listening to those first 15 episodes with Alicia Mateo, how much that has helped them in their relationship.
Angus Ross (8m 18s):
Yeah. I mean, it's been quite extraordinary and on so many levels, certainly with the feedback and then for the people that, you know, have, have obviously decided they wanted to work with us and, and reference points in those podcasts that obviously have struck a chord with them and can see how this, they want to have some movement there on that same level. So it's, it's been a really, it's been wonderful from the feedback point of view, but it's actually been useful for us in the sense, in the sense that it's kind of like getting people into a new way of seeing their relationship that they want to explore and, and a useful tool for us as well.
Rohini Ross (8m 60s):
Oh, you mean in terms of helping them come to the intensive prep?
Angus Ross (9m 3s):
Yeah. Yes. I think it's been a very good preparational tool and you know, that's what got them interested in the first place, but yeah, they, they, they looked in the world, the internet stratosphere for some kind of help and thankfully they're coming to our podcast and then coming to us, which has been wonderful. And
Rohini Ross (9m 23s):
Some people have even not needed to sign up for intensive. Right. I know we totally shut ourselves A foot in the foot in that level. Oh, well that was what I wanted. I wanted This to be able to help as many people as possible and we can only work for the few people. And so that's part of my big vision that I had.
Angus Ross (9m 40s):
Yeah. I think when that happened in that happened in particular, I remember that, well, I thought that that was just such an incredible validation of, of, of the full value. That's, that's an awful with the podcast that they can see that, you know, actually we've seen something here. That's going to be really helpful in our relationship and, and that we don't need you after all.
Rohini Ross (10m 1s):
And that's really the whole point to remind people that they do Have the answers within. And it's about being able to get out of the condition, thinking that helps them to get settled in here. That
Angus Ross (10m 15s):
Always,
Rohini Ross (10m 15s):
And then for me, one of the thoughts that I had about doing this, and I know that, I don't know if you, I don't know where you stand on this, now you can let me know, but I really wanted to make something that would be interesting and fun to listen to. And so when someone writes in their review that it's like a Netflix binge, it's like, that's exactly what I wanted to have happen. That it wouldn't be like, oh, I'm listening to this educational podcast about relationships. It would be like, oh, this is really interesting. I want to hear what happens next while also learning.
Angus Ross (10m 48s):
Yeah, no, I feel like when you first came up with this vision, I felt like at that point I had listened to a lot of podcasts. I feel like I don't have the time to do that at this point in my life, but when you're not driving as much, I'm not driving as much, I guess. That's it, isn't it, because this is probably a feature of the pandemic for me is that I haven't been having to drive so much, which is the time when I would listen to podcasts, but I had listened to a lot. So I was able to discern, I was able to, or is it separate the grain from the chaff? Is that the expression, the check from the grain,
Rohini Ross (11m 20s):
The wheat, from the chaff, from the chaff,
Angus Ross (11m 26s):
I was able to separate the wheat from the chaff and just discern what was an entertain entertaining format. So I was conscious of that and I feel like I'm so thrilled to think that people have kind of like looked at it upon those along those lines. Cause there's certainly quite a few podcasts that I listened to where it was very compelling and it did feel like you wanted to binge and you know, and I kind of looked for that. I'd look for opportunities to try
Rohini Ross (11m 53s):
So I can
Angus Ross (11m 54s):
Continue to listen wasted inordinate amount of gas in the process. So don't tell me that, but yeah, no, I look forward to driving just so I could get in, listen to a podcast, but I feel like I would, I always wanted to feel like this podcast that we would produce would have that quality to it. So that's been very reassuring and
Rohini Ross (12m 11s):
I have to say, I have been guilty of sitting in the car after I've arrived at a destination finning shot, finishing off, listening to something.
Angus Ross (12m 19s):
I always assumed you were in the garage talking to your mum.
Rohini Ross (12m 25s):
That happens too.
Angus Ross (12m 25s):
But there was the odd occasion where you were finishing off a good podcast, sit
Rohini Ross (12m 29s):
In the garage, talking to my mom because the reception isn't very good.
Angus Ross (12m 34s):
So it is a podcast. Yeah, we can't do that anymore.
Rohini Ross (12m 39s):
Why can't I do that anymore?
Angus Ross (12m 40s):
Well, I guess you can, there may be some sort of distant memory of you're not being available to help me with the dinner or the chores or something of that ilk and that you may have disappeared into the dark recesses of the garage garage garage.
Rohini Ross (12m 59s):
I think you are in pure fantasy. What on earth are you talking about? When would I disappear? I don't know. No,
Angus Ross (13m 5s):
I can't pinpoint one particular moment in time, but you might have stayed in the garage listening to a podcast when I might want some help with something. I dunno, in the kitchen. Let me just let, just for the viewers benefit, the garage is adjacent to the kitchen. Got it. So might be in the kitchen and I'm just like, where the hell is she when, and I'm assuming she's talking to you to her mum, so I won't go and interrupt. So I've driven home,
Rohini Ross (13m 31s):
You're in the kitchen working and you're expecting me to walk through the door and I don't come in. And you're like, yeah,
Angus Ross (13m 36s):
You know, it's probably like a timing issue. Maybe it's been my night to cook dinner and, and the, and the dinner is getting cold. And you're in the garage talking to your mum when actually you're listening to a podcast.
Rohini Ross (13m 47s):
Well, you were the one that got me onto them. That's true.
Angus Ross (13m 51s):
Yeah, it did. Didn't I say it all started with me in 10.
Rohini Ross (13m 54s):
And then this is a really, you've only got yourself to play for getting yourself into this. Introducing me to this world. One comment I wanted to address on one of the reviews. Someone mentioned that they wished we had talked more about the understanding behind our rewilding metaphor. And so I think this is a good opportunity to speak a little bit more about that.
Rohini Ross (14m 34s):
And for us, we have been mentored by and attended trainings from our teachers who learn directly from Sydney banks. And so the understanding that underlies our, we welding metaphor is from his teachings. But I would say that it's aligned pretty much non, dual, spiritual teaching in general. Wouldn't you say?
Angus Ross (15m 0s):
Yeah, I would. You know, I think that, I don't know if I'm the kind of person that we're, we're all, we're all the kind of people who's always asking ourselves that question, you know, that, you know, that sort of the meaning of life question, that big existential question. And I think that I always struggled with the word spirituality and I think that it's because probably from, you know, my, I don't know, religious indoctrination, there were some very sort of set ideas around what spirituality looked like on that level. And then I think that then I went off exploring when I decided to probably, I don't know that I purposefully decided to distance myself from that rigid religious indoctrination.
Angus Ross (15m 41s):
It was certainly a backdrop, but I felt like I wanted to go off exploring and see what other people had to say, other philosophies, you know, what was else was out there. And I feel like I looked at everything well, I can't say that I looked at everything that sounds ridiculous. So I'll take that back,
Rohini Ross (15m 58s):
Scratch that from the record. Maybe
Angus Ross (15m 60s):
We'll edit that out. But I looked at a lot of things and I felt that it was always something lacking. And I think that it's when I came across this understanding that I, which is the three principles when I came across, when I came across the principles and, and starts to learn with Georgian and the Pransky who obviously learned firsthand from Syd banks where it all started, I felt like what it really started to see what I, how I started to see it was it's. This is like a plugin that you can apply to sort of any sort of spiritual philosophy that you might, I don't know, I've been indoctrinated with or injected you're indoctrinated yourself with, I guess I should look up that word indoctrination.
Angus Ross (16m 44s):
It sounds pretty negative, but I'm not meaning it in those terms that my programming and conditioning around spirituality, that's, let's look at it that way. I felt like there was this amazing plugin that really, you know, people hear this term, the three principles, and it's very easy to sort of like, Ooh, what's that that's a new religion. Is that a cult? Is this a new philosophy? I'm really all it is, is it's a simple way of describing how life works as I see it. So it's, it does feel like this is amazing plugin. So I actually, in my coaching work, I mean, there was one amazing day where I got to work with one after the other, an Orthodox Jew, a Muslim, and then an atheist.
Angus Ross (17m 30s):
And I'm sharing this understanding and I'm not really, I'm not deviating off the company line at all. I'm just sharing this understanding its simplest form and every single one of them were like, you know, seriously impacted in a very positive way. So it's, it's, it's not counter to any kind of philosophy that's out there on a spiritual level because it's basically defining spiritual truth in a way it's showing us how the mind works and operates and how life falls into line and falls in step with that. So for me, that's, that's, that's part of the reason why I felt like it's affected me so profoundly and, and in the work that I do, it's, it's been absolutely awesome, but it's very simple.
Angus Ross (18m 10s):
I think that I've gone off on a tangent and hadn't answered the question perhaps in the way that you wanted me to. So
Rohini Ross (18m 16s):
Maybe, maybe you could help me get back on track
Angus Ross (18m 20s):
Because I feel like you want me to sort of probably take a deeper dive into what the principles actually mean. I've given you an account of kind of like how it affected me and how I use it. Would you be willing? I would be, it's one of those things that sometimes I feel a little bit insecure about. Okay. Yes. Less so lately, but the principles are really, there's no chronological order to them. We have the principle of mind, what can I interrupt?
Rohini Ross (18m 50s):
But you can't, you just did. Sorry. I'm interrupting. I think also For me, the three principles is a term that was used at one point when Syd banks was teaching and it was came up a long time ago. And I actually have heard some of the teachers say that that probably if he was still alive, wouldn't be the term he was still using because the principals have kind of become a thing. And so I really want to point people more to what we're using the rewilding metaphor for in instead of the three principles it's like we're pointing to is that there's this intelligence behind life that informs us and that we have the capacity to listen to that and feel the liveliness of that versus listening to our analytical mind.
Rohini Ross (19m 39s):
That's based on things that we've learned in the past. I mean, I think in the simplest form, that's, that's what our metaphor is based on.
Angus Ross (19m 46s):
And then it's interesting actually, just to reflect on my initial reaction to feeling like I've got to like now talk about the three principles and describe them. There is an awkwardness around that for me. And, and it's interesting also because I think that when I first learned this or started to learn this understanding, I was at a program that was being facilitated by George Pransky and Michael Neil. And I remember putting up my hand and feeling quite nervous, but nervous about asking this question, cause I'd heard George talk about SIDS saying that as soon as you try to put form on the formless, which the form is being the, you know, the intelligence behind life, whatever label we're going to throw on that, as soon as you try to put form on that, you're already barking up the wrong tree.
Angus Ross (20m 31s):
So I'm putting my hand filling up, putting up my hand, feeling a little nervous, asking the question. It's like, well, you know, if since saying that surely the three principles is putting form on something that's formless. So I'm thinking, Ooh, if I, if I, if I put them in an awkward situation in front of all these people and George like quickly countered is like, yes, Sid would be the first to say that, you know, you, you are actually kind of starting to sort of bark up the wrong tree as soon as you put that any kind of form on the formless, but you kind of have to start somewhere. You have to have some, you know, in terms of language and in terms of the way that we want to teach, there needs to be some kind of form, some kind of construct that we can get our teeth into.
Angus Ross (21m 11s):
And at times it does feel a little bit clunky, even talking about the principles, but it's, I don't want to say it's a necessary evil,
Rohini Ross (21m 19s):
But
Angus Ross (21m 20s):
It is necessary to have a construct that we can use as a vehicle, through which to share this understanding. And it's a very useful construct and I'm happy to, I'm actually happy to explore it. And I, and I do sort of hit the, hit the ground running. When I, when I teach a new group of people, I make no bones about it, but I know people that have a tendency to feel a bit awkward. And I think it's for that very reason in terms of what Sid was sharing all those years ago, that, that it is difficult to put form on something on that level. And for whatever reason, that level is veiled in some way where we can really only talk about it through metaphor or analogy. And that's part of why I like it so much too.
Angus Ross (22m 1s):
It's like, I, I do like a
Rohini Ross (22m 4s):
Metaphor. Well, why don't you go ahead Then and share more about how you speak to the understanding behind our metaphor?
Angus Ross (22m 12s):
Well, initially I would always do an illustration because I'm very visual, but I, you know, I don't have the luxury to do that in this form. We can include an image we could include, not obviously
Rohini Ross (22m 22s):
It would go in the show notes. It
Angus Ross (22m 23s):
Might appear a little bit out of context. So we'd have to discuss that off off of Mike, I guess, to see if that's valuable or not. I don't know, but I will though. I will never let this. I will. I felt like I'm slurring my words. It's not like I haven't been hitting the bottle. I don't know. Maybe I'm talking too fast or had too much caffeine. How much caffeine have you had? I've had a couple of cups. Yeah. Much, much, or yes. I've had much, much it's day. I'm probably will have more cause there's a lot to do. Oh my goodness. It's going to be a much a day I feel, but anyway, I'll, I'll take a breath.
Angus Ross (23m 18s):
I will continue In terms of how I would go about sharing. The three principles is that I feel like I'm one of those people that wants to go straight to the spiritual core. And I know that basically, perhaps some of the trainings that I've been to in some of the trainings that I've been involved in, I feel that spiritual core has kind of been left on until last it's like, you know, particularly, I think if you're doing a corporate gig, it's kind of like, you don't want to lead with that because you might be slung out on your ear and being thought of as some sort of spiritual Muffet. And I don't know, and then you'd think I'd be the first to have that kind of insecurity. But I feel like I've learned some probably by virtue of the fact that I have to teach a group.
Angus Ross (24m 1s):
We can week out and I'm having to teach new people and I don't necessarily get to spend a whole lot of time with them. I kind of feel like I've found a way to, to share the principles. That's kind of in a kind of compact form
Rohini Ross (24m 16s):
In Angus shorthand, in Angus shorthand
Angus Ross (24m 17s):
That kind of can hit them hard and fast and you know, hopefully they'll get, it will be beneficial because I might never see them again. So I want to, like, I want to see it like slow release medicine. I'm like force, force feeding them this pill, but it will eventually dissolve and sought to dispense meaningful benefit. That's some blades place
Rohini Ross (24m 41s):
It's so funny. I would never describe how I work with the clients, hitting them hard and fast. And force-feeding, it sounds kind of intense to work with you. Well,
Angus Ross (24m 52s):
Yeah, I think there's some benefits to doing it this way.
Rohini Ross (24m 56s):
So where does the term spiritual muffin? I dunno,
Angus Ross (24m 58s):
I heard that years ago and I thought, yeah, I don't ever want to be described as a spiritual muffin and I'm sure maybe I have been,
Rohini Ross (25m 5s):
I think you've become a spiritual muffin. I think
Angus Ross (25m 7s):
I have, but anyway, I probably have, because I always lead with, I feel what, what the principals are ultimately pointing to. They're pointing in a spiritual direction. So I talk about spirituality and I use words like intuition, because I think that's a kind of secular way of talking about spirituality, but I feel like intuition is basically our GPS. So I start there and have a conversation at that level. I also probably talk about how, for me personally, going to church with my mom as a kid and even being an alter boy, which I don't really like to advertise.
Rohini Ross (25m 42s):
How old were you? I wish
Angus Ross (25m 43s):
There was some photographs of me and like a white frog,
Rohini Ross (25m 50s):
Blue tunic. How old were you?
Angus Ross (25m 52s):
I think I was like probably 14. 15. Oh,
Rohini Ross (25m 53s):
You were quite, I was thinking you were like eight or 10. You were a teenager that was
Angus Ross (26m 1s):
Maybe 13. Maybe I was late.
Rohini Ross (26m 3s):
I think 13 is late,
Angus Ross (26m 5s):
Late to the party. I was late to the party. I'm always late to the party. I was just a slow developer, but I think typically you might be confirmed when you're 13 and I can't even remember what exactly that means. Other than you have to read a whole bunch of religious texts and get confirmed, I guess a Christian,
Rohini Ross (26m 27s):
Well, you confirmed that you pass faucets. I'm not confirmed. So I'm not in the cloud.
Angus Ross (26m 32s):
Someone will be able to give us more information on that level, but it's all kind of a blur to me. I mean, I guess I was already, I felt like I was confirmed Christian when I was baptized. So this might've been a top-up, but
Rohini Ross (26m 45s):
It was baptized, but I wasn't confirmed, but just because You're confirmed doesn't mean you become an alter boy. Well, yeah, you see There's the rub for me because I think
Angus Ross (26m 56s):
You didn't have to, you become an alter boy, but you did have to go to these classes, which I would go to these classes with, you know, other people of that age, simply blessing to be the older one. Yeah. JC to be a good bit. Yeah. From my recollection. But anyway, somehow in that whole process process, there was an expectation that I had to be an alter boy and, and, and be able to sort of, you know, help the priest dispense wine and bread, or really it was a wafer. It wasn't, it wasn't.
Rohini Ross (27m 34s):
And didn't the priest drink the wine. Yes. Well, everybody
Angus Ross (27m 38s):
Drank the wine, but the, yes, the priest. Does that answer your question? Maybe? Cause you've heard me tell the stories. He seemed like he would glug it down, like finish up what was left in the, in the chalice. Can I tell what to me is still a really brilliant story. This is just totally as an, as an aside too. We'll get you back on track. Get back on track. The most amazing thing about being an alter boy for me. And there wasn't a lot that was amazing about it. It wasn't wearing the frog. It was quite a lot of resistance to do it on so many levels. One of the things that I was just, I actually also wished that I was Catholic. Cause there was a Catholic church up the road, which is adjacent to a convent.
Angus Ross (28m 19s):
And it was just like, there were lots of young girls.
Rohini Ross (28m 22s):
I don't think we want to go there alone. And they had this rule, the great
Angus Ross (28m 27s):
Youth club, which was like, they're, you know, filled with these lovely convent girls and I'm of an age where, you know, it doesn't sound creepy when I say that I'm not trying to sound creepy. No, we start with Catholics. I was kind of like a bit fed up about that ed part from anything else, but it couldn't evidently change my religion as far as my mum was concerned to, to meet my dating needs. But anyway, so I would be an alter boy. It was my job to prepare. I don't know. I guess it was my job to top up the wine and make sure there were enough wafers for the congregation. So I was just constantly having that was my job. And I am in the side altar and I am able to have this perfect view of the congregation, walking up to take their wine and bread from the priest, the vicar, as we would say in England.
Angus Ross (29m 14s):
But the, the best thing that could happen on those mornings was there was this character called Eric who had this incredible sense of humor. It wasn't, I don't think it was intentional, but it just had what for all intensive purposes looked like this incredible sense of humor. So if you can imagine a church where everybody is like sitting there in SOMBA silence, praying very quiet. It's almost like a library. It's got this sort of very rarefied atmosphere. These giant outdoors would suddenly swing open bang. And this character Eric would like come charging in and a larger than life personality. And he would walk up the aisle like a hundred miles per hour and he would turn to everybody from side to side, constant going
Rohini Ross (29m 59s):
All right. I love
Angus Ross (29m 59s):
And like find his way up to his peer. And he'd always sit and write in the, in the front pew. And it was just like this amazing burst of energy. That's a sort of interrupted this sort of, sort of the quietness of it all. But there was this one brilliant day when the, the priest was handing out the wine at this point, he's got this great big challenge. He's handing out the wine to the congregation as they're coming up to Neil and, and they come up in pairs. So for whatever reason, there was a, there was an elderly lady who kind of like was finding it a little bit difficult to sort of like find her kneeling position at the alter. And then she finally managed to kneel down and, and, and, and put out a hand to receive the wine.
Angus Ross (30m 41s):
And simultaneously Eric had arrived at the same time, but for whatever reason that the old lady seemed to be struggling to sort of make this maneuver to, to, to accept the wine and hold the chalice. And in her struggle, Eric just suddenly turned to his left, look to her, patted her on the back of the head, go on, laugh, drink, cup, drink. I just, you know, it just brought the house down. It was just, he was just a lovely human being. And he was just such a bundle of joy. And we also much appreciated and made church just like quite so much more entertaining. And that was just one of many stories. Anyway, brief aside, brief detour, getting back to the principles.
Angus Ross (31m 25s):
As I say, I feel like principals, you know, we have to have some sort of form some sort of context, and I don't want to beat around the Bush. I want to start with a spiritual. So I started to talk a lot about intuition and I describe what intuition is to me. And I use my famous Einstein go-to quotes, which we're still, the jury is out. It's attributed to Einstein, but there's no specific hard evidence, but there is definitely a lot of evidence to suggest that it's can be attributed to him where Einstein is purported to have said that the intuitive mind, the intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a willing servant.
Angus Ross (32m 8s):
And yet we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. So at some point in the proceedings, I won't do this so early on if I'm doing an illustration, but at some point in the proceedings, I start to talk about Einstein and I stopped start to talk about the fact that here is someone, the poster child or the analytical mind that really he's saying two things here. One thing he's saying is that equals MC squared that came from the intuitive mind. It came from the infinite intelligence behind the life, as I see it. And on another level, he's saying that if we have forgotten that this is a part of our human experience, then we're really kind of like only as good as what stored away in the hard drive only is what sort of we're in the conceptual mind.
Angus Ross (32m 53s):
So the principles as they stand, and I feel a little bit insecure doing this without illustration and having to do it in the audio version, the principles as they stand the principle of mind, mind would be a secular way of pointing to that field of infinite creative potential. The intelligence behind life intuition, the principle of thought is really what we use our analytical machinery for. It's the sort of the processing tool, if you like, for which we process thought and store information. And then the principle of consciousness is the way that we are able to sort of bring that information to life. So I use this example of it being kind of like a Netflix movie and the way that I talk about it in being a Netflix movie.
Angus Ross (33m 36s):
And I hope this makes sense. It's weird to do it in audio version, but in a Netflix movie, the way that sometimes when you watch a show, one day, you have to stop. For whatever reason you rec, you know, you go to find your seat in the following day. There's that little feature at the bottom of the screen, where you scroll your cursor and all the little rectangular scenes crop up in miniature form. And at some point there's my scene. You press play. I suggest that the ego works and operates in that way. So if I am to talk about the ego and this is just to me, I know everybody has their different points of view around the ego. I kind of like echo Toll's point of view on the ego and the ego being kind of the eye of the analytical mind. So it's really the, I have all the information that we've ever stored away in there.
Angus Ross (34m 20s):
That's how he see the seize, the ego. That's how I see the ego. So if I think about the ego being like that, and I think about the ego kind of a little bit like that cursor in a way that it operates in the Netflix software to find that scene, that lines up really with our state of mind, then that's really what we're talking about here is it's like the consciousness that we are experiencing at any given moment is often a reflection of our state of mind, if not always a reflection of our state of mind and where that gets problematic is when we don't realize that we have this other part to ourselves, the principle of mind that is constantly feeding us new thought, new possibilities, new creativity coming through, coming to us via intuition.
Angus Ross (35m 3s):
When we don't have that part, as part of our human experience, we're completely at the mercy of our Netflix movie. So the Netflix movie, if we're in a, in a happy state of mind is great. It's going to be filled with joy. There's nothing really to talk about there other than to appreciate it. If conversely, we're in a low mood, that Netflix movie is going to be filled with Aja and discomfort suffering. And, and we're still because of our, our, our brain biology. And I like to, you know, I do like a bit of the science, so we'll have a look at the brain biology. So the brain biology, when you really look at it, like it's set up to make us creatures of habit. So you look at our neural pathways and I know that the term in the same way that you might go to the gym to strengthen your muscles, it's kind of like our biology kind of strengthens in the same way.
Angus Ross (35m 51s):
And the term is actually caught my organization. So if we get into a low mood and our ego is playing the low mood movie, as it were, that can start to become a habit and we can keep, keep on revisiting that movie. And before too long, we've grown a muscle we've micronized those neural pathways. So they become the more obvious means of travel. And before, too long, that can still start to look a whole lot like depression or anxiety or any number of different ways that we would get caught up in thinking that looks negative. So it's so funny for me to sort of do this without being able to put pen to paper and doing it in an audio way. And I guess actually it's like, it's, it's a, it's a growing edge for me.
Angus Ross (36m 31s):
It's kind of interesting. And I'm hoping that I'm touching all the key points, but I feel like for me to start with the spiritual, but the spiritual piece is again, it's sort of separating the, the, the wheat from the chaff. Is that what we're saying? For me, that's getting straight to the point. And a lot of people really suffer in the same way that Einstein would be using that quote. We suffer because we kind of put ourselves in this sort of box where our whole human experience is really defined by our Netflix movie, when really the way to do life is to be able to see that we have a whole other component to this human experience.
Angus Ross (37m 12s):
I spirituality, I often say that when I first came to LA, I would hear this term that if anybody hear me, it would hear me say this. I would expect vomit to come up to my mouth, but I'm very happy to say this now in this, in the way that I see it is like we are one spiritual being, having these many different human experiences and our human experiences is defined through our thoughts systems. So if we really understand that, that, that comment in terms of being a spiritual, being, having these human experiences, then for me seeing or not seeing it on that level, where we would get into trouble is if we have some distance from our, from our spirituality, that we don't really have an understanding, that's who we are at our core.
Angus Ross (37m 55s):
If we don't have an understanding of that being our core, then we live our life. Basically we are, as I said before, held to mercy by our thoughts systems. And that can look a whole lot like suffering when there isn't an answer in that hard drive that will meet the needs that we find it. You know, when we, when we come across challenge or something that feels like a stretch, when the answer isn't in that hard drive, that's probably when I know I would freak out and probably get anxious. But if I know that I have a spiritual core and I have this GPS system, the principle of mine, that's constantly offering wisdom to meet any given situation that I might find myself in. Then that is a very rare, very reassuring thing to get a hold of and to learn and to understand and, and to carry, carry me through life.
Angus Ross (38m 44s):
That that is, that is just huge. That is an amazing insight for anybody to have. And I feel like, you know, that's an insight that I've had and hopefully I will keep expanding into, I'm not saying I've got it all figured out by any stretch of the imagination, but that is so comforting to feel like, you know, there is, there is this GPS at my disposal and it comes to me through intuition and that at any point where I find myself facing challenge, it's like, that's the direction for me to look at? That's my north star prior to this understanding, I was thinking, I, you know, if it's not in the hard drive, I'm pretty, I'm doomed. And, and, and then I can get into a pattern of thinking that that looks a whole lot, like anxiety or depression or whatever.
Angus Ross (39m 27s):
Now, I feel like for me, the, the escape from that is a sense of my essential spiritual nature, which is like, you know, this is why we've gone with the, the whole rewilding metaphor, which I should let you tackle. Since you asked me to talk about the principles, you can say, what was the Genesis point for the rewilding metaphor? I hope that I've kind of like teed you up for that. The Genesis point in terms of where the idea Came from. I think where the idea came from, I think it would be helpful for people to know, and then, you know why we're using this as a metaphor.
Angus Ross (40m 11s):
Can I comment on what you said first, please?
Rohini Ross (40m 17s):
You said a lot, and I think it'd be helpful to just touch on some key points if that's okay. Of course. Yeah. And I also think it would be helpful to look at how, what you've said in the big picture is really helpful in the area of relationships, because basically this understanding transformed our relationship and it's the understanding that we use to help other people transform theirs. And so it's seems on one level in the big picture, like, yeah, of course this is a good idea. We have this infinite intelligence within us. We all have that.
Rohini Ross (40m 58s):
We all have equal access to that, but how does that help me in my relationship? How does that help me when I'm not getting along with my partner? How does that help me when I'm angry? And so for myself, what I didn't realize and what was a blind spot for me was that I didn't realize that I was living life really caught up in the narrative of the personal mind and on an intellectual level. I knew that I'm more than my thoughts and my feelings, but I wasn't really experientially living life. That way. I was very much paying most of my attention to that and feeling kind of strung out as a result of that.
Rohini Ross (41m 42s):
And so then when someone explained kind of what you just did to me, and really helped me see that beyond the noise, it's just natural to drop into that peace and wellbeing that's inside of us, that, that infinite intelligence, isn't just, it's not an intellectual thing at all. It's an experience, an experience of peace. It's an experience of wellbeing. And the only thing that gets in the way of that is identifying with our personal thinking and that as soon as we get more perspective on our personal thinking and don't identify with it as much, we naturally drop into that space of wellbeing within ourselves. And so for me, that was the foundation because I dropped into a deeper experience of that, not just as a peak experience, but in a way where I live life, less identified with my personal thinking.
Rohini Ross (42m 34s):
And as a result of living life, that way, what happened was that I became more emotionally stable. I became less insecure. And if I was insecure, I didn't really mind that I was insecure or I had much more room for all of my emotional experience without judging myself or feeling like I needed to fix it because I knew that the design is to stabilize. And so with that inner stability from understanding that if I don't identify with my personal thinking, I naturally drop into this deeper feeling inside of me that transformed our relationship because when you were not feeling good, if you were upset or angry or destabilized, it didn't automatically knock me off of my inner stability that because I was more deeply grounded in that space within myself, I was able to have more room for your humanness, more capacity to be compassionate for you.
Rohini Ross (43m 40s):
And I think you probably already naturally had a lot more room for my humanness. I had one you're your humanness, so that must've been met with some gratitude on your part. Like finally, she's seeing something here, but I didn't realize what was behind my lack of tolerance. And behind my sensitivity to you when you weren't sort of living up to whatever standards and expectations I had. And so it was really experientially feeling the truth of what you've just said, the truth, that there is this space within all of us that is love.
Rohini Ross (44m 21s):
And that's an impersonal love that we can all have access to. And we all do have access to that in equal amounts. Nobody has more of it. Nobody has less of it. And that through understanding what got in the way of that, and what I didn't see was how all of my striving to be better. My self-improvement my efforts at self help. I didn't see how that was actually getting in the way of me having an experience of my okayness. Like I thought, oh, I have to keep working on myself and then I'm going to get more okayness. And actually that was just getting me more stirred up. And so
Angus Ross (45m 0s):
I'm surprised there hasn't been a self-help, but working on your okayness
Rohini Ross (45m 6s):
And the irony is it's like the more you work on it, the further away you get from it. Yeah. Ultimately it's through dropping into it, falling into that space, not working on it, letting go of the striving and, and feeling what's actually there when the mind gets quiet. And to understand that the mind naturally gets quiet. We don't even need to work at getting the mind quiet is designed to settle. Just like the nervous system is designed to settle. The mind will naturally get quiet if we allow it to and stop giving it a lot of input to get stirred up about. So for me, that is how it comes together in terms of the impact that it has on relationships.
Rohini Ross (45m 49s):
It starts with ourselves and that whether it's for ourselves, whether it's working with an individual, we're working with a couple, we always start with the individual having a deeper connection with that wellbeing inside of themselves and understanding what gets in the way of that. And also where I think the rewilding metaphor comes into this is for me, rewilding captures the alive newness of being connected to our spiritual essence. It's, it's wild, it's messy, it's alive. It includes everything. There's nothing separate from it.
Rohini Ross (46m 29s):
And I think that in my own journey, and I think other people might've done this as well, is that I kind of sanitized the spiritual experience, thinking that it was going to be all just Zen and beautiful feelings all the time. And if I wasn't feeling Zen and peace and unconditional love, then that meant that I wasn't doing something right. And what I realized is that that just completely ignores our human emotional experience. And if everything is part of this formless intelligence behind life, then our emotions aren't separate from that. And they must be part of the health of that.
Rohini Ross (47m 9s):
And so for me, rewilding captures the health of our humanity. That is an expression of our divinity and points to how it's through simply being open to the health of that being open to experience and allowing it to move through us, that we wake up more deeply to the truth of who we are. And it's not by bypassing that or diminishing that on any level. It's simply by being present to what is, and because emotions for a lot of people, myself included can be scary. They can feel overwhelming. Certainly when most of us are young, we're not really given the experiences that teach us how to be with our feelings.
Rohini Ross (47m 51s):
We're told to sort of suck it up or get it together and stop crying that we, many of us and I'll speak for myself, didn't learn how to make room for all of that. And so, as part of my rewilding and part of what this understanding has given me is the gift of being able to know that that spiritual essence of who I am is who I am, no matter what I'm feeling, even if I'm not feeling peace and Zen and whatever qualities I might think are associated with spirituality, that it's all part of spiritual awakening. There's nothing separate from that awakening process within us. And that we don't need to do anything with it.
Rohini Ross (48m 32s):
We can simply allow ourselves to be with our emotional experience and be with the health of that and make room for that. And that in itself is healing. And that when we do that, we're so much less likely to act out from that place. We're so much less likely to hurt ourselves or somebody else because we're having an intense, emotional experience. And that there's an alive ness and a vitality that has come in to me as a result of simply being present in that way, because before I was without realizing it constantly evaluating and judging how I was doing and measuring myself up against some ideal of what spiritual, what a spiritual person is and how I'm supposed to be showing up in the world, rather than just simply being wherever I'm at and allowing the truth of that to be what informs me in the moment and the truth of that includes my human experience.
Rohini Ross (49m 36s):
It includes emotions, it includes being stirred up. It isn't exclusive of that. And I don't want to not use that feedback as an indicator. So if I'm really stirred up and upset, I want to use that as an indicator to let me know what my state of mind is and act accordingly, like maybe not have that conversation with you or not send that email, but I also want to stay open to it and not judge it or shut myself off from it, but just to allow it to be. And in that I realized that so much knowing comes forward by staying open.
Rohini Ross (50m 16s):
And so for me, I feel like this is very much an inner journey, but it has amazing ripple effects in my life, in all areas of my life and our relationship. One of the most important areas of my life.
Angus Ross (50m 51s):
It's really beautiful. Nice. I was reflecting on, on the, the theme that we're using this term rewilding, you know, even this week, I think that I had to go in and, and teach another group. And I had an experience where I wasn't really knowing what I was going to do or say what I've got so much into the, into the mindset that, you know, I'll just show off and see what flows through me. And I think this is what we're pointing to. And I think even harks back to where this today's podcast started for me, where I would say, or did say that for me, I kind of like going live. Cause I don't really have the luxury of being able to think or ruminate on what I'm going to say. So I just show up. And I just trust that that part of myself will inform my words in this case or actions in another situation.
Angus Ross (51m 36s):
And I think that the trust that I'm developing there has just been pivotal in how my life has just changed in such a beautiful way that I really engage with that part of myself as much as possible and trust that part of myself. And for me, the idea of, of using rewilding is just such a beautiful matter of fact, cause you look at the natural world, there are just such obvious examples everywhere you look, when nature is looking for each life form to have the most optimal experience, it couldn't be on any other terms. If you look at evolution, it has to be the pulse of evolution to look for the most awful experience, optimal experience, excuse me, for every life form.
Angus Ross (52m 17s):
And it's kind of funny cause that when I, I got up on Wednesday morning and I was feeling, I don't know, I don't, I don't often feel nervous now about having to teach, but I had a lot on my plate. A lot of things were going on and I realizing that I was going to have to in the middle of the middle of this day, teach a group, but I've got all these other fish to fry all these other plates to spin in the meantime. So I started to feel a little bit insecure. Then I walked into the garden to sort of like take a breath of fresh air to, to sort of maybe like me, you know, to have some restorative sun in my face. And then I looked at this tree stump just to give you some background on this tree stump. There is a tree in our backyard, which I cut down three years ago because it was like, and I kind of felt a bit to be honest and retrospective a little bit guilty.
Angus Ross (53m 4s):
It feels a bit brutal knowing what I know now about trees and rewilding, but I cut down this tree about three or four years ago because it was providing a lot of shade or putting a lot of our garden into shade that I really, you know, we wanted to maybe go out and bask in the sun, but also it was damaging the fence. Well, not really so much at that point, but at that point it was more of a shady issue, but there was a potential of it damaging fence. Maybe that was the excuse. That's
Rohini Ross (53m 28s):
What I thought. Why you got the G down,
Angus Ross (53m 31s):
They cut the sheet, cut the tree down and left it, forgot about it. Cause it's not like we're avid gardener,
Rohini Ross (53m 39s):
By the way, Angus cuts this tree down while I'm away by himself with a chain, saw the part of the tree drops on his head. I come home, he's got this huge lump on his head. Wasn't wearing a hardhat. Wouldn't hire somebody to do it. Anyway.
Angus Ross (53m 55s):
It was one of the joke is it's stupid than me, but I did actually, I did rent a hard hat and I forgot to put it on. I did the classic thing. All that won't fall down yet. Of course it did. It fell right on my head. Anyway, that's a that's cost aside that, but I cut the tree down and then did nothing about it for three years. Cause we're not really, as I say, avid gardeners three years passed by now, the trees come back with a vengeance and it is pushing over the fence. And the fence is squeaking like day in, day out under the strain and pressure, this tree, which is now pretty large. So this time I'll let you, I thought to myself, I'm going to buy a chainsaw.
Angus Ross (54m 38s):
It's like, it's a very manly thing to do. I'm going to buy myself a chainsaw. And I was kind of delighted to be able to do that. Cause I figured it's like, why would I employ an arborist? Cause I know our neighbor employed an OB arborist and had to pay through the nose for cutting a tree half the size of this. So I'll buy a chainsaw. How difficult do you like to do things yourself like me? I do like to do those kinds of things myself. So I cut the tree down and did a pretty good job. I'd learned my lessons from the first time. I know I knew where to position myself and the angle of the cut, cut the tree down and literally get to the, to the base and cut it off really close to the earth. So there's just like this great big fat base, about four feet in diameter.
Angus Ross (55m 22s):
Anyway, after after doing this, this was about three weeks ago. I walked into the garden, this one sunny morning, reflecting on what I'm going to share in my group. And this is perfect
Rohini Ross (55m 32s):
Little tree right in the middle of that stump. Like
Angus Ross (55m 35s):
It's about, I dunno, it's about eight inches long with little leaves and shrubs and everything. I'm like, I'm just blown away at the capacity of nature to just to like fight for life. And that's what I'm talking about that for me. And then I use that as an example in the group of like, you cannot hold back that intelligence, that intelligence is coursing through nature. We are a part of nature. So it's coursing through us to, of course it's coursing through our psychology. Of course it's wanting us to have the most optimal experience. And, but for our thinking, which we have a certain amount of free autonomy over through our free, will we be fine if we just were willing to take our hands off the wheel of our analytical machinery every once in a while and trust the pulse of that natural world, wanting to informing us, wanting to us, wanting to be a GPS system, that's guiding us always looking for that optimal experience.
Angus Ross (56m 29s):
So it's like, it was kind of a no brainer when we saw the potential of that metaphor to really embrace the natural world for all that it's worth and realize that fundamentally we are obviously so much a part of it and that that intelligence is, is there for us all, each and every one of us. And what our belief and talk about okayness. That's when I feel okay. When I feel like I can rely on that and I don't have to get caught up in what isn't in the hard drive. And and that for me is at the core of it all. And maybe there are, you know, I love that conversation that we had with Dicken, where he talks about Sid and his two primary insights.
Angus Ross (57m 13s):
One is to, you know, as he articulated it, to see how we create our entire human experience through the realm of thought. And the other insight is to have a, have a, an understanding of our essential spiritual nature. That to me is the essence of the illustration that I, that I would do. And that hopefully was the essence of, you know, me trying to sort of put that into a more audio audible form, but that's what it boils down to. And that's why we use this metaphor. It's like the natural world is out for life. It's out for love. It's out to expand and grow and evolve in the most optimal way. All I need to do is catch that wave and my analytical wine will just like, just be consumed by whatever water has already passed under the bridge.
Angus Ross (57m 56s):
I want a new, fresh current to get to surf one, basically.
Rohini Ross (58m 1s):
Yeah. Oh, I love them. I love the feeling that came forward and you sharing that it's really touching. And so that, that a liveliness really is, and it's, it's something that is inside of all of us looking to express the truth of who we are more fully into this world. We all have that inner inclination that wants to be like that little tree coming forward, but wants to express the truth of who we are more fully into the world. And all we need to do is listen to that and act on that. And in the realm of relationship, when we listen to that truth, that wants to be expressed, we will always find ways to bring more love into the world.
Rohini Ross (58m 48s):
And that doesn't mean that we stay in the relationship that we're in. It means that we listen to that a liveliness and the health of that and let that guide us. And you and I are really clear that it's not about being attached to the form of that. It's like, what does love want to express into the world now for most of the people that we work with, they do love each other. They may be having a really hard time with each other, but fundamentally they love each other. And if they could figure out how to be happy together, they'd want to be together. And so we share this with them and that helps them to reconnect with that essence of love. That is their true nature.
Rohini Ross (59m 28s):
That is their birthright, that is who they are. And then they just express that more into the world. Well, when you get to people expressing more of their true nature into the world together, that makes for a pretty amazing relationship. And it has room for all of the humanness and the humanity that comes with that. But there may be situations where that health comes in and that alive ness comes in. And it's really clear that the health is pointing in another direction for whatever reason. And so we're not dogmatic. We have no agenda on that front. All we want to do is support people to the best of our abilities, with connecting, with the truth of who they are.
Rohini Ross (1h 0m 10s):
And we know that the rest is going to unfold, and that has absolutely nothing to do with us
Angus Ross (1h 0m 35s):
Of what you're saying, that we're not dogmatic. And if we are to continue with this rewilding theme, you know, we have no way of controlling nature. Why would we, and when we do, and when we do try to interfere with nature and its natural course, that's when the balance gets upset. So we just trust that the people that we're working with will tap into that inner resource and figure things out. It's not for us to have an agenda. We'll see what emerges naturally and organically from that place.
Rohini Ross (1h 1m 5s):
And it's really interesting recently, numerous conversations have been coming up in, in communication with me around polyamory and asking if what we do would be in alignment with that, or is it against that? Or what's my opinion on that. And I don't have an opinion on that. It's like if you're listening to that inner wisdom and following the truth of that, and that's where it guides you, then I trust that. I know that I don't think I could do that because of my ego would get very insecure, but that that's me. And that doesn't say anything about whether it's a good thing or not for anyone else, but there's no form.
Rohini Ross (1h 1m 47s):
Then it's really, what is the impulse guiding you within to do and what makes sense for you. And only we can know that and we can get better at recognizing when are we listening to that? A liveliness that wants to be expressed from the formless into form. And when are we listening to our fear and insecurity and letting that drive our behavior?
Angus Ross (1h 2m 9s):
Yeah, we would be doing our clients, such a disservice if we were here to solve their problem, because we're pointing to intuition, helping them, attune themselves to that part of themselves and, you know, let them figure out and let them go on their Merry way and trust that part of themselves. If we robbed them of that opportunity by trying to solve a problem really apart from anything else, we're just encouraging them to get more kind of caught up in the analytical machinery and we're pointing in the completely opposite direction.
Rohini Ross (1h 2m 37s):
Yeah. So I think that was a pretty good recap.
Angus Ross (1h 2m 40s):
I think those are pretty good. Oh, it was quite painless.
Rohini Ross (1h 2m 47s):
No meltdowns. Frank is today. Maybe I should trick you and say, we're going live every time should be much easier for me. So we encourage you. If you haven't listened to the first 15 episodes with Alicia Mateo, we encourage you to check those out. That's the, those are the episodes that are the recordings of the couples intensive. We did with them. And we include excerpts from the intensive and then our commentary. And we'd love to get your feedback. If you haven't given us a rating or review, we would love to have that, that supports us with sharing this with a wider audience. And then our follow-up episodes with our guests are designed to give you an experience of lots of different people sharing about the same understanding in the way that they share it and to help you to see how general it is and how it can be used in all kinds of different ways and to hear how other people speak about it.
Rohini Ross (1h 3m 45s):
And so we hope you enjoy the guest speaker interviews as well.
Angus Ross (1h 3m 49s):
Yeah. It's been a, it's been a lovely journey and I'm thankful that you're all along for the ride. Yeah.
Rohini Ross (1h 3m 55s):
So we will take a lovely summer break and we'll be back with an episode on the 13th of September. And as part of my break, I'm looking at the second season and seeing how far I can get to with getting that second season out there. Get ready, Angus. Back in September, you're going to be working! Thank you so much for listening to Rewilding Love. If you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know by subscribing on iTunes. And we would love for you to leave a review there.
Angus Ross (1h 4m 33s):
iTunes reviews will steer people to this podcast who need help with their relationships.
Rohini Ross (1h 4m 36s):
If you would like to learn more about our work and the online rewilding community, please visit our website, therewilders.org.
Angus Ross (1h 4m 45s):
Thanks for listening. Join us next week.