Awaken to Love

EP10: Uncovering the Inner GPS

• Angus & Rohini Ross • Season 1 • Episode 10

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:03:42

Alicia is on fire, using metaphors left and right to describe the nearly continuous flow of insights she's experiencing. With Rohini relating this understanding to Alicia's pre-established worldview (Christianity), Alicia can see clearly the power of letting God -- or the intelligence behind life -- take over in times of distress (and any time really) instead of relying on the intellect and her previous tendency to overthink.

One can feel Alicia buzzing with inspiration, relief, and a feeling of open-heartedness. It's such a relief to learn we don't have to control everything because in reality we can't control anything! She can see how her deepened understanding will help her in her relationship with Mateo, but also her relationships with others and perhaps most importantly, her relationship with herself.

This magical Rohini-Alicia session has Angus feeling a bit competitive, but mainly he's glad to hear about Alicia's big shift. When he suggests Rohini do a victory dance, she gently reminds him that couple's intensives are not a competition.

This episode explores:

  • Resignation vs. acceptance
  • Communicating from empathy rather than righteousness
  • Understanding has a vast ripple effect
  • Listening to our common sense is very practical, and yet it provides a powerful and comprehensive compass for navigating life
  • Wisdom is infinite
  • We can't undo a jump in consciousness - we will slip, but we can't un-see new insight
  • Pressure and performance don't make very good bedfellows
  • Increased resilience when in a place of presence
  • Letting go of control is not a passive activity -- it's an active listening to inner promptings and letting them be the guide.

Show notes
The Uncomfortable seat: we learn that for episode 10's recording, Rohini has taken one for the team and sat in the uncomfortable seat -- not metaphorically, but physically and literally.
Jesus Take the Wheel: The prompting for one of Alicia's insights, and also a lyric from Carrie Underwood's country-western hit as Angus points out.
Click moment: Alicia's preferred term for insight.

Podcast music
Rewilding Love features the music of RhythmPharm with Los Angeles based Master drummer, multi-instrumentalist, and composer Greg Ellis, born and raised in the Bay Area. Episode 10 includes selections from: Violet/Balance; Blue/Calm; Orange/Nourishment; Yellow/Clarity.

Feedback: info@therewilders.org
To leave questions and comments for Ask Anything Episodes Call: (424) 272-6497

Angus & Rohini Ross are “The Rewilders.” They love working with couples and helping them to reduce conflict and discord in their relationships. They co-facilitate individualized couples' intensives that rewild relationships back to their natural state of love. Rohini is the author of the ebook Marriage, and they are co-founders of The 29-Day Rewilding Experience and The Rewilding Community. You can also follow Angus and Rohini Ross on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. To learn more about their work visit: therewilders.org.

Angus Ross:

Welcome to Rewilding Love. This season is with a couple on the brink of divorce.

Rohini Ross:

This is episode number 10. Uncovering the inner GPS

Angus Ross:

Five minutes, I was back loving my wife again and worshiping the ground that she walks upon five minutes earlier, I was wishing the ground would swallow her up and take her into the depths of hell never be seen again.

Alicia:

No one has the power over me to make me feel certain way.

Rohini Ross:

If you can see that, that's life changing.

Angus Ross:

What if we could somehow find a way to make you poke proof?

Mateo:

I just rather not get poked.

Angus Ross:

Pressure and performance don't make very good bedfellows. Do they?

Alicia:

Like having like a navigation system?

Rohini Ross:

Exactly. I love that! GPS!

Angus Ross:

What I've heard from it thus far that she's kind of white knuckled her way through life, trying to control everything. She's hopefully gonna press the spiritual overdrive button.

Mateo:

What I think I experienced, at least a pin drop of that bliss of just living in the moment.

Alicia:

It's very different to think of things this way.

Angus Ross:

You are listening to Rewilding Love with me, Angus Ross,

Rohini Ross:

and me Rohini Ross

Angus Ross:

Rewilding Love is a podcast about relationships.

Rohini Ross:

We believe that love never disappears completely in relationships. It can always be rewelded, listen in as we guide a real couple back to their natural state of love,

Angus Ross:

Relax, and enjoy the show.

Rohini Ross:

I just would like it noted for the record that I was willing to sit in the uncomfortable seat for this podcast episode and I'm not speaking metaphorically, I'm actually speaking physically and literally.

Angus Ross:

And I just want to note for the record that when I was in the uncomfortable seat, I don't think you enjoying the amount of noise that I was making. And so that's why we decided to change I thought,

Rohini Ross:

it's true. And I have to acknowledge Angus that you are very chivalrous and would normally put yourself in the uncomfortable seat. But in terms of sitting down and doing a recording, the squirming wasn't working for this.

Angus Ross:

It wasn't. Anywhere else for sure our listeners don't want us to share our difficulties with the seating arrangements. Let's get on to the more important matters at hand.

Rohini Ross:

Well, in this episode, I was really interested in seeing how there was synchronicity between our sessions. And how in the last episode with Mateo, he had this what I thought was a pretty big insight. And now in this episode with Alicia, she has what she calls this her click moment.

Angus Ross:

Yes, I think that the bar was raised significantly, so you better show up in this particular segment. And I don't know if a click moment really qualifies as an insight. But I guess it falls into that territory?

Rohini Ross:

Well, you'll have to tell me, but I think it does.

Angus Ross:

I think it probably does. But we'll see.

Rohini Ross:

And also, I do want to preface that the language that I'm using with Alicia, she is a Christian. And so I really wanted to use language that she would relate to. So I am using words like God, and other spiritual terms, because that was something that is important and meaningful to her. And with all of the clients we work with. We want to use language that relates to their worldview.

Angus Ross:

It's funny, I know that there are definitely occasions where we have to sort of tailor our sharing this understanding in a way where we feel like we're not going to offend anybody on religious lines. But I think it's quite difficult to do that, in my estimation, because I think that a lot of this understanding falls very nicely into most people's religious beliefs. And I and I certainly think with Christian philosophy, a lot of what Jesus was pointing to lines up with this understanding in very elegant ways.

Rohini Ross:

Absolutely. And what we're really pointing to is how we can all be rewilded by our true nature, that spiritual essence that is found within us and so we're although we're not speaking from any specific religious or even particular spiritual point of view, we are looking in the direction of how we can all be rewarded by that innate sense of self who we are.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, and I think that this understanding is baked into pretty much all spiritual philosophy and obviously Each spiritual philosophy has its own, maybe its own language surrounding it. And I don't think that we ever find ourselves out of kilter with it. But I do appreciate you know what you're doing here in terms of trying to use terminology that would be more alignment with Christianity.

Rohini Ross:

Let's hear from Alicia

Alicia:

There's a higher power there that you can kind of have your own relationship with and talk to and absolutely go that route and just know that whatever is meant to be is meant to be and that all the struggles that you go through and all the hard times like, it's because you can withstand it.

Rohini Ross:

Yes. And what we've been talking about in terms of when you said, do nothing and ride it out, wat is allowing you to ride it out is that higher power that is taking care of you that it's kind of that's what clears your mind.

Alicia:

Yeah, right.

Rohini Ross:

You don't have to clear your mind. And and, you know, in the in the Christian tradition, it's it's, you know, you give you give your problems to Jesus, or you give them to God or, you know, let God take the wheel. Yeah, like, that's exactly what we're talking about here is that you recognize that your engagement is not helping the situation, you let go, and you let that deeper spiritual energy take over and take care of you. And so that's why it kind of fills you up. Yeah, you know, when you when you let the more you let go, the more you get filled up.

Alicia:

And so whatever you just said, really just clicked to me, because I was just like, why did you get stirred up? I should just remember, like, Oh, my God, you got this.

Rohini Ross:

That's right. Exactly.

Alicia:

And I don't think that I've ever thought of it that way. I think that right now, just like that clicky moment where I'm like, well, there's a higher power that can handle

Rohini Ross:

Thas exactly that higher power to come in. Because it's like, that's your true nature like that spiritual energy is your essence. And, and so it's recognizing that the essence of who you are, will be able to navigate that, and you don't have... your intellect is not going to be able to figure that out. It's like way too complicated for your intellect to do. I know we do. We like to, you know, I definitely can relate to me, like, I have control, I could work hard, I can do this. And we just get tired and make a mess of things sometimes.

Angus Ross:

So I think the exact line is let Jesus take the wheel. And I think you're borrowing that lyric from a country and western singer, the name of which I have no idea. But nevertheless, I think that is the correct line.

Rohini Ross:

I would agree with you. But I think I got it pretty close.

Angus Ross:

But I do like the direction that you're taking this in?

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, I think it was really important for her to see that the way that she was navigating the relationship and life in general, was with a very high effort of trying to control things and putting the weight of that on her shoulders. And I could hear when I said something along the lines of you don't have to clear your mind. Like there was something when I just listened back. I heard it. She's like, Oh, yeah. And for her to see that it's not on her, to have her mind clear that there is this knowing inside of her that she would refer to as God or spirit that actually has an intelligence within it to help her stabilize, that she doesn't have to figure everything out with her personal mind that there's actually a way that she can open to something that's greater and deeper within her, and that just takes the pressure off.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, it's almost playfully.

Rohini Ross:

Absolutely. And that she was saying that she'd never thought of it that way before. That was also something that I thought was really key and that I look for when working with clients. And so when she said that she hadn't thought about it that way before I knew that something was shifting inside of her and that she was having some fresh thinking. She was looking at it from a new perspective, a new understanding. And so that felt very hopeful for me.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, she definitely seemed like she got some elevation there.

Rohini Ross:

And so in the next clip, I just speak to her a little bit more about this. That's really the essence of what we're talking about here. Even though we don't just work with Christians, like we're really pointing to that spiritual essence that is behind life. Yeah, you know, that drives life and that there's an intelligence in that, that is way more comprehensive and infinite than our small mind can ever figure out and we can you know, it's great that you have your intellect to, you know, get your job, things going like it's very useful. But for the deeper feeling more heartfelt things, it's like we want to really rely on that deeper part of us to lead the way.

Alicia:

Yeah, definitely is liberating. Yeah, that it's like you do have the assistance even though you think you're in it alone, that you can look to a higher power to be like, Alright, help me through this.

Rohini Ross:

Exactly, yeah. I love how working in this intensive format really allows for the deepening of the sessions. And I feel that, as I've worked with Alicia, throughout the sessions, that we've just gone deeper and deeper each time, from looking at the role that her relationship with her thinking has in her life, to now looking at this much deeper point, which is what happens when she's not identifying with her personal thinking, what else is available to her. And I think, you know, she's really blossoming into that exploration really beautifully here. And that the experience of when I listened to her sharing, is that she's just so much lighter and got so much more inner freedom.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, she's, she's really settled down. And that's something that's been very noticeable to me, listen to her share. And I think that in that settling down, she's got to a higher vantage point and has much better perspective on the relationship. And most importantly, the relationship she has with herself, and is starting to see how to move forward on that level will be really a great compass point for her to focus on the ways that she can quiet her mind.

Rohini Ross:

And I really want to point everyone who's listening to how this is generic, what we're talking about is universal. This is not just about Alicia and Mateo, that whenever we don't identify so strongly with our personal thinking, and we open up to that different kind of knowing that deeper knowing within ourselves, we're able to navigate life much more gracefully.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, and I think that she, she is now willing to tune into that other channel, so to speak channel of our highest self. And that's what we'll be playing on the radio, when Jesus takes the wheel.

Rohini Ross:

But you are thinking like oh, that's for those important things. But to start to see actually, no, this is a way of navigating day to day life. And and to see that Oh, that deeper knowing that it's like, okay, you're going to handle this, like that deeper knowing is communicating with you, the whole time. Life gets created differently, when that has more of the lead. You come from a very different place inside of yourself, when you're creating from there.

Alicia:

It's almost like more tranquil to me,

Rohini Ross:

It is, I would absolutely agree that makes perfect sense.

Alicia:

It's almost like nice to think that like, I don't have to be in control of every Yes, I see the boss or like, like, that's actually like in this moment, I just almost felt like pressure, just release because I was like, I don't have to do that I don't have to control I don't have to be the responsible adult like things will come together as they're meant to come together.

Rohini Ross:

The key point I initially wanted to make here is that listening to our inner knowing or common sense, whatever we want to label that is very practical, and available day to day, it's not something that's just reserved for big problems or certain situations, that we can actually have that as our compass point for navigating life.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, it really feels like in this section, she's getting a taste for what that means. And, and evidently, it is something that is a comfortable fit or appears it's gonna be a comfortable fit for her.

Rohini Ross:

Well, and she has this experience in this section where she feels the pressure release off of her chest, and we talk about it a little bit later in the session as well. But she has this visceral experience of letting the anxiety go which to me is a clear demonstration that her relationship with her anxious thinking has shifted in this moment that she went from feeling the pressure and anxiety because she was identifying with that thinking to having an insight, realizing that she can let go be present and listen to the deeper knowing within herself and not try and navigate life with her intellect and by figuring things out and she experienced feeling of letting go.

Angus Ross:

And you can feel the relief of that. And I definitely always got the impression, or what I've heard from thus far that she's kind of white knuckled her way through life, trying to control everything, and hang on very tightly. And now she can, she can see that there's an opportunity for some great release and relief, and having to not hang on so tightly.

Rohini Ross:

And really, this is a lesson for all of us, I'm still remembering this and learning this, this is an infinite journey of waking up to the fact that we can let go and so the more that I see this in my own life, the more that I recognize when I'm thinking that I'm running the show, or that I'm getting caught up in thought, as a way to get, you know, buy into that illusion of control. It is always such a relief to remember that no, that's not how it works.

Angus Ross:

And I guess one of the most important elements of this understanding. And it doesn't matter where we were, we all fall on the spiritual or philosophical spectrum, with a sense that there is a higher power are an intelligence behind life, is the realization that where you tend to hang on really tightly, is through the system of your own thinking. And that, and that's generally where you get yourself into trouble trying to sort of control and manage every part of your human experience. And to think that at some point, you can just let go the wheel go into neutral, and feel that there is a push from that higher power that's already always leading you towards balance and harmony. There is so much relief in that. And we're all hopefully learning that and awareness at this level will make life a whole lot easier.

Rohini Ross:

And that's the rewilding that we're all allowing ourselves to be rewilded by that innate intelligence is moving towards balance and harmony, and that there's opportunities for every single one of us to open up to that more fully.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, absolutely.

Rohini Ross:

So in the next section, we continue to use navigational metaphors, but I actually didn't come up with it.

Angus Ross:

I know you really you set a precedence, I feel by talking about that song, that song line, or you're using metaphors left, right and center.

Rohini Ross:

Letting yourself go with what is actually your deeper knowing. That allows things to go more smoothly, but you're still part of it. So it's, it's like you show up? You know? Okay. Turn right here. Well, you do turn right there. Yeah. But it takes the pressure off of you. Like you said, when you felt that pressure lift, it's kind of like, oh, you're ready to show up. But you're not on constant duty. Right. Having to figure everything out.

Alicia:

Yeah, totally. It's like Captain like a navigation system. Exactly.

Rohini Ross:

I love that GPS. Right, so you've got your GPS, and it gives you the next couple of turns, but it doesn't give you the next 100 turns. So it's like all you need is okay, this is where it's pointing me right now.

Alicia:

And you don't have to like making those turns and whatnot. You can take some of the thinking out of it.

Rohini Ross:

I love that you're seeing that. And I love that you felt kind of that pressure.

Alicia:

Yeah. I agree because I'm like, Oh, I can breathe. I was like, yeah, whoa, where did that come from?

Rohini Ross:

Yeah. That feeling is what I'm talking about. Yeah. And so when you start to feel the pressure come in, you're forgetting that you have that guidance system, a higher power available to you. You're taking on too much of the responsibility. Like you're...

Alicia:

Its like my check point. Yeah. taking on too much. It's like, you're gonna realize.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, you're gonna feel it. Like, just like, we've been talking about how our feelings come from inside of us. Pressure is an indicator to let you know that you've forgotten who's really in charge. And it's not Oh, it's because I have this much work to do. It's like, No, I've forgotten who's really in charge right now. Yeah, I think it's on me.

Alicia:

Yes.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah. You got a big smile!

Alicia:

Like thinking that too. I'm like, literally, I just thought about my like to do lists at work. And I was like, Yeah, you got it. It's liberating to think that way. It's liberating to be like, there's times Yes, you have to be in control, of course. But like, I don't have to be controlled and relax, right.

Rohini Ross:

Like, I love that GPS analogies, because it's like, Yeah, you do what you're kind of being called forward to do but there's so much less effort when that's all it is.

Angus Ross:

Okay, well, what I love about this section is that is the way that you pointed out to this year, that the pressure that she feels in these situations, is akin to her to getting out of kilter with her higher self, a spiritual power, she likes to see it. And I think you missed an opportunity to use another motoring metaphor, because I think that would be her check engine light coming on. And that would be the indicated to her that she needs to pull over to the side of the road, take your hands off the wheel, I've actually doesn't really need to pull it up, but she can just, she can less just let the autopilot kick in. And that's the beauty of this human experience. When we really honor and respect. There is an intelligence behind life, just twiddling its thumbs in the wings waiting for us to kind of reach out. Because there are all these problems that can come through through intuition or instinct, we just get better equipped to be able to listen to them and follow them.

Rohini Ross:

And she did mention the tech point. And so I think she was getting close to that metaphor.

Angus Ross:

She did but not quite

Rohini Ross:

Not quite. I would agree that there's that wonderful feedback system that we have from our emotions. And from this section, we can hear how she finally realized that pressure she was feeling in her chest was not normal. Until then that had just been the chronic norm. But once it got released, she has a new reference point for what it feels like when it's not there. So she's going to notice much more quickly. When that comes back in like you're saying, and that's going to be her reminder, to let her know when she's getting caught up in her anxious thinking, so that she can do whatever she needs to do at that point to take care of herself.

Angus Ross:

And it's such a glorious way to become present to what is. Because I know that if I'm fully aware of the feeling state that is taking me into a more negative way of thinking, then I realize right off the bat that I'm not present by virtue of the fact that my mind has taken me to some point in the future is dredging up the past. But it's not there, ready and willing to receive the moment and experience the moment. And that's the sweet spot. That's when the intellectual machinery is not engaged. And that's a much better place from which to live my life at any point really.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, that's a great point that what we're talking about another way of pointing to it is to talk about presence that when we're really in the present moment, we are in the now and there's an incredible lightness and freedom, when we're able to do that. And that it really opens up the capacity to hear the inner feedback and be responsive to that. And that was another point that I was was making in the section was how, when we're talking about letting go of control is not a passive activity, it's really a very active, listening to that deeper knowing within ourselves. And that when we listen deeply to that knowing there's going to be actions that we get prompted to engage in so it's really just a letting go of the illusion that we have to have it all figured out. And allowing the inner promptings to be the guide along the way, but it's not a passive, I'm just gonna sit here and do nothing and see how life unfolds is a very much an active engagement with that deeper listening and acting from that place.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, it's it's an act of engagement. But in a sense, it's also it's a very, it can be very subtle, and it can be very quiet engagement. What is that? What is that Buddhist term, or, quote, when the mind quiets the soul speaks? For me that that really points to this understanding from this vantage point that when we get quiet, and when we will respect that there is there is this GPS system, that those prompts and those intuitions will be much more available to us, by virtue of the fact that we are disengaging ourselves from the from the noise and the static of, of our intellectual machinery at those points where we can see that our feeling state has gone south.

Rohini Ross:

And not only are we more capable of listening, when we're in that more quiet mind, in this next part, I really look at how there's an additional benefit of increased resilience, when we're in that place of presence.

Angus Ross:

Love it.

Rohini Ross:

And when I'm talking about your resilience, your ability to bounce back, that's where it comes from. Like that's source the source of who you are. That's why you're resilient because you always bounce back. Yeah, like that's inside of everybody. Whether they realize it or not, it's there, but the more you recognize like it doesn't matter if I get knocked down because You get filled up again you let go. Okay. Now what? Yep, I'm gonna figure this out now.

Alicia:

Yeah. And I think it's kind of the analogy goes back to like, even with children, like if they touch the fire, they're gonna learn real quick. And you know, sometimes you have to trust that you have to let them make a mistake or fall. So it's kind of the same thing now is like, I trust that, like, I'm gonna make mistakes. I'm gonna fall but like, there's some there's a safety net there.

Rohini Ross:

Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. I love what you're saying. No, it's so great. All the metaphors, you're, you're fantastic. So a safety net effect. Yeah. Being Human, there's going to be knocks along the way. None of us escape that. But there's a safety net. . So it doesn't matter.

Alicia:

It like makes you feel like a little bit more warm and, like, secure that, like, things are gonna go awry. That's, that's life. But it's like to know that like, you're not really ended alone, even though you may think so. But you're also going to be able to bounce back no matter how hard it may that be.

Rohini Ross:

Exactly. And when you let go, and you allow that deeper wisdom to come forward. Like, that's infinite. what's available to you there. Like you're gonna get fresh ideas, you're gonna get new thoughts, like there's nothing that your life can hand you that that wisdom that you have inside of you cannot handle

Alicia:

Yeah, yeah, it's like you're going and opening up all the like, with chakra is and everything. It's really cool, actually. Because I feel like I've always like, you know, thought about it, or like, acknowledged it, and like seeing that people feel these things, but then actually to like, finally let it click within yourself. You're just like, Whoa,

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, yeah, that's experiential.

Alicia:

Yeah. And I feel like you have to almost really be open to it before you can actually believe it or feel it. Because I feel like I've acknowledged it, right. But I never really like was open to this being like, let's see.

Rohini Ross:

Alicia is on fire with her metaphors.

Angus Ross:

She is.

Rohini Ross:

She's rivaling you.

Angus Ross:

Well, I don't know about that. Maybe I can get some tips from her.

Rohini Ross:

I really appreciated her safety net metaphor, because it it said to me that she was experiencing that place of safety within herself. She's no longer walking on the tightrope of having to get it right. She's feeling that inner relaxation of being okay to be human being okay to be learning as she's going along, not having to hold it together. Hearing that she's got her own resilience, or recognizing she has her own resilience to work things out as she goes along. It doesn't have to be working out all the time to me what she's speaking to here, and especially with that reference point, to that safety net. That's that recognition that she ultimately is okay within.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about learning as you go along. And I think that, what are we here for, if not to grow and learn in our human experience? I guess, you know, as I said before, I like to think that our sole purpose to be here in this human experience is to evolve and consciousness. And to look at it from that perspective, growth and learning would be the objective. And so on that basis, and understanding that we have a GPS system that's feeding us prompts from the wings trying to guide us and help us to move forward. And really, that's really such a relief to think that you know what, I'm just doing my best at all times. I'm doing my best. And I have this incredible GPS system that will help me course correct as I as I move along. And I think that for me certainly is is a great source of comfort.

Rohini Ross:

And it really takes the pressure off. And what I think is key, especially here with Alicia Mateo, but for all of us is to recognize that as human beings, the more pressure we have on ourselves, the less our performance benefits from that. Pressure and performance don't go well together.

Angus Ross:

Yes, pressure and performance don't make very good bedfellows, do they?

Rohini Ross:

No, not at all.

Angus Ross:

Not very good in bed together.

Rohini Ross:

On many levels...

Angus Ross:

So many levels.

Rohini Ross:

So there was one point I wanted to make for this section. Can I switch topics?

Angus Ross:

Yes.

Rohini Ross:

The other piece that Alicia noted, I thought she had a lot of great insights and awarenesses here is that she said...

Angus Ross:

You're very keen to point out all these great insights and awarenesses that Alicias has had, but I don't know if she's caught up with Matteo yet based on his last showing, anyway, but please carry on.

Rohini Ross:

I don't think it's a competition but if it was..

Angus Ross:

I could be Winning,

Rohini Ross:

I know who's ahead. Well, what I was gonna say is that she recognizes the difference between getting something intellectually and having an experiential knowing of it, which I thought was very astute of her, she said that you have to be open to it. And what she's pointing to is that she had this visceral experience of understanding that it's okay to let go, it wasn't an intellectual idea. She felt it. So to me, that's the only thing that matters, because we can have all kinds of good ideas that don't really do anything for us in terms of our experience and our behavior. But when it drops down to an experiential knowing, that's really powerful. And that's what she had a taste of here. And even just a taste of that goes a really long way. And that's what I point to in the next section.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, that's, that is quite powerful. I'll give you that. I'll give her that. I don't know if that gives it the edge, though, yeah,

Rohini Ross:

That's very generous of you. Because it's the natural design. Like we're naturally designed to have wisdom come forward, we're naturally designed to have this essence expressed in the world, you just create a little opening or big opening, but even a little opening, and it's gonna come forward. It just needs a little bit. And all of a sudden, it's like, okay, there it is. So I, you know, for me, what's what's really standing out to me, but what you're saying is, you're seeing that it's not on you. And that you can really rest so much better understanding that it's not on you and that, yes, you're participating. And you're showing up, but it's a different level of responsibility than you've been holding. And trying to fit like, when you're overthinking. It's trying to find the answer and the intellect. And it's not there. It's never gonna come from there. Because if you knew the intellect pretty much fine figures it out in a few minutes. You know, I was like, Oh, I know the answer. What is it? But if it's not there, you're not going to get the answer from there. It's going to come from new fresh thinking coming from that wisdom coming in.

Alicia:

Yeah. And I think that that's something that'll create the neutral state.

Rohini Ross:

Yes. Yeah, the neutral state is being just open to that, and how it comes forward. And that when you, the more stirred up you are, the harder it is to be open. So the the more alone, you feel, even though you're not alone, but the more alone you feel, because it's like, if you look at it, like an open mind is, is wide open. And so you can be really connected and really feel peaceful and feel that guidance come in really easily. But the more stirred up our thinking gets, it's like that contracts, and it becomes really small. So it's really difficult to kind of feel or recognize whatever that wisdom is, because there's just so much noise coming from the other thought.

Alicia:

Yeah, it's all been blocked out.

Rohini Ross:

Exactly. Because it it's more of a subtle feeling. You know, then the noise of our anxiety or insecurity, like that's really noisy and just, you know, wants to get our attention. But this other experience of knowing of feeling that tranquility, that you're talking about feeling that you're being held, and that you're not alone, like that's much quieter, and subtle, but profound and powerful.

Alicia:

Yeah, definitely.

Rohini Ross:

And it's you just, it's basically, you get better at having the noise go into the background, and this other experience come into the foreground. And you know, what it feels like, and when it shifts, you're like, Oh, I'm on the wrong side of things. And you can go back. And what's been happening is you've just been living in the noise a lot. And it's even like this. Oftentimes, this really shows up when life situations happen that are difficult. So you've been in a difficult life situation, but it's just magnified what was already happening internally.So this is the how you've been navigating. And then this difficult life situation just makes it more clearly Oh, this isn't working. how I've been navigating. So now though, the beauty of it is because it's like, Wait a second, this is really difficult. You get to learn and have a different understanding that allows you to even be in this difficult situation, and a new easier way. But you take it forward, even when you're not in this difficult situation. And you have a new understanding so that goes with you.

Alicia:

Yeah, no, I think that's like, such a key learning because it's like, I don't know, it's just like different to kind of just know that like, you aren't alone, it's not your decisions. It's like just yeah, just follow the navigation. Just go with it and just see where it lands, and it's nice to know that's there. I just got quiet out the noise.

Rohini Ross:

That's right.

Angus Ross:

So I love the way that you're guiding here. I feel like she's, I will concede that she's evidently had quite a major insight.

Rohini Ross:

Thank you.

Angus Ross:

With that insight, I would suggest that she's probably had a jump in consciousness. And in that jump, what I really like about what you're doing is that you're really helping her anchor that in, getting a sense of what she's seen, so that she can really move forward with it in a way where she has a keener sense of what she's seen, and can now use it in practical terms.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, that's a great way of putting it taking something that she's feeling, but then helping her see how that's going to support her in very practical ways in life. But one of the things that she said that helped me recognize that she's had that shift is she talked about that neutral state, and respecting that neutral state. And I don't know that she's even considered before this, the value of having a neutral state of mind. And so that opens up so many possibilities for her. And even though it's been chronic it, it can it can shift like that. Like what you just felt what you've seen, like, that's a shift, that's like a light bulb going on.

Alicia:

Yeah, it was weird. I've never felt that too. I was like, we did I have like to have something on my chest. Like what's going on here?

Rohini Ross:

Yeah. So that is what you get to take with you.

Alicia:

Yeah. And I think that that's, I wish for everybody that they can stand that infield. And it's almost like, I almost feel like, we've been gypped as children like to not have a class like this and elementary school or high school, to really get to knowm to be within yourself almost.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, as you live this in your life, and you feel that pressure continue to recede, and it becomes less of the norm, and you live more from that place of a feeling of connected and just really letting yourself be guided and, and seeing how graceful most things are. When you do it that way. Like Yes, there's still gonna be knocks. But it's also incredibly amazing how easy things are to when you do them. But people will be impacted by that. Like, there's gonna be a ripple effect. Like if you and I just had this, and you went back to him. He like, Oh, she's different. There will be a ripple effect there. You'd show up differently. And you know, who knows how that would unfold? Even if he didn't? Your people you work with that? See you every day, they're gonna feel that too. And family members. So you're going to create your own little ripple effect and who knows what you'll share how you'll share it, right?

Angus Ross:

Well, I imagine that when you were hearing what you said real time, you would have been like one of those linebackers who just received the ball in the end zone, and was now doing the victory dance towards the cloud. That was definitely quite an insight in terms of how it was registering on the Richter scale.

Rohini Ross:

I'm not really known for my victory dances in session.

Angus Ross:

I think you should incorporate them.

Rohini Ross:

Some movement therapy. expressive dancing,

Angus Ross:

Expressive dance. Maybe a yodel. I don't know.

Rohini Ross:

I take it as a compliment.

Angus Ross:

I would love to hear a yodel in the therapy suite as a sign that someone had a major insight.

Rohini Ross:

Well, anything else?

Angus Ross:

No, I think that again, you know, she's obviously it's almost like it's so slow release better since she's had this insight. And it's just, it's just sinking into greater depths and having more and more of an impact on her.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah. No, it was really beautiful to witness. And, again, when there is that kind of visceral response in a session, it's such a clear indicator that there has been a shift because it's not just an intellectual understanding, the body is communicating the shift, which is profound. And what I think is really key is recognizing how in this session and how change really happens is that happens in an instantaneous way. When we get that click when we see something new. When we see something fresh when we have a realization of something that we haven't seen before. There's an instantaneous shift that changes everything. And I don't know enough about biology, but I would imagine it has the potential to shift things, even down to a DNA level, I'm not an expert in that area, I want to be clear. But that kind of shift is what we're always looking for. And even when there is that kind of shift, the person is still on the learning curve for integrating that shift. And I think that that is key. And I'll talk more about that with her as well. But the recognition from where change comes, I think, is important. Because often people try to change at the level of the intellect, the level of behavior. And what we're really pointing our clients to, is that change comes from a new insight coming from the unknown.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, whenthings click shift happens.

Alicia:

It's very different to think of things this way and just being like, just roleplay I think I guess that's why they have that saying, like, roll with the punches.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, yeah. And it's but I love that you're seeing the spiritual element, because it's not kind of nihilistic, I'll roll with the punches. It's like, you're going with the flow of a deeper intelligence. And even though on the surface, it might feel like the punches. It's actually there's, there's always something greater right going on. Sometimes it's more obvious to us than others, but that we can trust that whatever is, is meant to be

Alicia:

Totally, and that's what I mean by like, roll with the punches, just like rolling with, like, whatever life throws you because you are going to be guided whether you think that you're not. And just going within trusting it. And then just being like, yeah, God is in your hands or take the wheel and just..

Rohini Ross:

That's right.

Alicia:

I'm gonna let you do you. And let's then let me know how I react after you know, and just kind of that almost like is puts me at least at ease.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, I'm hoping, yeah, can really allow you to feel that more tranquility and peace. And that even this situation, is part of that intelligence. Even though it's not your preference this way, but it's that intelligence being expressed through the two of you doing the best that you can, right. Like, there's wisdom in it, as crazy as that sounds. . Like, it's got a lot of, you know, muddled up thinking in there too. Well, as you said, the insight just keeps getting deeper is a session unfolds. And her use of the language, you know, roll with the punches, she was definitely speaking to it from that place of accepting what is, but I did want to make sure that she was clear. And I'd love to make sure that our listeners are clear that there's a distinction between resignation and acceptance. And when she's saying roll with the punches, she's not talking about it from the perspective of resignation, just kind of roll over and accept what is and you know, it has to be good enough, even though we're not really okay with it. Resignation is actually a form of resistance to what is, it isn't truly acceptance and acceptance is really about being open to what is without resistance to it. And that's incredibly freeing, and liberating, when we're able to do that. Whereas resignation has resistance embedded in it, and it is not freeing and liberating at all. And so she was speaking about rolling with the punches from that place of accepting what is. And Byron Katie has one of my favorite quotes, where she says, when you fight, this might not be the exact quote, but it's something like this, when you fight with reality, you lose, but only 100% of the time.

Angus Ross:

That's cool. Yeah. And the thing that I that I wanted to say, at this point, which is I've feel is really noticeable. This is a beautiful rapport between you two. There's a real gentle quality to it a real, you know, that seems to indicate a very settled mind as far as she's concerned. And I think this is on the back of her having what evidently is a really beautiful insight. And what I find, I kind of find it somewhat uncanny that both our clients as it were, in separate rooms, are having similar experiences. They're seeing something new and fresh for the first time. And their whole position is really quietening down, and they're getting a whole new fresh perspective. And isn't it amazing how that obviously was happening simultaneously. And you would never thought that as the day's beginning. So I think that's wonderful.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, it is really beautiful that we're all sort of coming together meeting in that space you know, the field that' s beyond right doing and wrong doing, there is a field, we're meeting in that place of non judgment, that place of unconditional love, and they're just dropping into it.

Angus Ross:

Yeah. And, and doing everything to sort of validate why we do our intensives in this way to sort of create a sort of almost like a spa setting where they just get to relax and and unwind and settle. And here we are, at this point, both on the same page, it's quite remarkable.

Rohini Ross:

And I think it's also important to note that in this session, with Alicia, we're not talking about Mateo. There's no blame. There's no, there's no exploration so much. We're really looking at what allows her to have her inner freedom and peace of mind.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, it's just you know, he's getting new optics, isn't it?

Rohini Ross:

I love how lit up you're,

Alicia:

It was like one of those like click moments. Yes. Like, okay, like, this is what it was intended to be. And, yes, you know, that you you did spiral and then this is the bringing you back to reality into that common moment. It works out it always does.

Rohini Ross:

Absolutely. So in terms of that click moment, in terms of when you felt that pressure lift off of you. That's the experience of having a realization, right. So there's the feet, the experiential feeling of that. Now the intellect is going to capture some, you know, don't try to intellectualize it, you might get some ideas about it. But it's it's beyond the intellect. It's a it's a deeper feeling. You get that right. Yeah, you felt it in a deeper way. And you just just follow the feeling.

Alicia:

Yeah. And it's like, kind of one of those things that intellect is almost like it can steer you the wrong way, start making all these scenarios. And in that of listening to that, I mean, I can acknowledge it and not give it any life.

Rohini Ross:

You don't want to overthink it, basically write it but it's it's alive. It's the wisdom is in it, the follow the feeling, you know, just soak up that feeling. It's a beautiful feeling. But yeah, don't crush it, with your intellect. You can't get it wrong. I don't want you to think you can get it wrong. But I really sort of pointing to like, you can just trust that feeling what you felt was real and that's enough. That means like, those are the kinds of things that Angus and I look out for, like, how is this landing? And not everybody has that kind of really, you know, like clear experience the way you did, but when it's like that, it's really obvious like, oh, something has landed, she's now your understanding was here. And now it's here. So that's the part that is different and once that happens, you can't go back.

Alicia:

Thank God!

Rohini Ross:

You can't go back. So it doesn't mean that you're not going to trip up. But you can't see. You can't unsee what you've seen, right? So you saw something that you're not going to be able to forget forever. So you might have momentary forgetting, but then you realize, Oh, yeah, that's right. Let go of the wheel. Yeah, who's in charge here? Yeah. And you'll remember sooner, but it's, it's qualitatively different to live from that place. And it is from when you didn't see that before?

Alicia:

It's funny, because I feel like this whole situation, hadn't I followed my head I would have been out

Rohini Ross:

Yes, exactly.

Alicia:

That would'nt have been following my intellect, decided not to listen.

Rohini Ross:

With your friends is like, Is she crazy? Becasue they're like, you should follow your intellect.

Alicia:

And I feel like that's probably viewed for the both of us like, both sides. Like, are you crazy? Is she crazy? And I think that, despite everything, I mean, we're both still here. Obviously, our hearts and our inner wisdom was telling us...

Rohini Ross:

something else was bigger of what's going on here. Which is really beautiful, it's really beautiful.

Alicia:

And that's why like when I thought, actually, when I thought when I said yesterday that like he needed someone to tell him what to do. I think that it's more so like, you just need to follow your heart and realize that the wisdom and the higher powers is what's going to guide you and pull you to this. And I think that it's being said that like, we need to be all in in this because this is where we're at right now. Versus listening to all of the chaos.

Rohini Ross:

Right, exactly!

Angus Ross:

I love the fact that you're giving her all this room to really acknowledge the insight that she's had, and helping her really get to see how this experience is going to be life changing. Its a real defining moment for her. And I think that you did a really good job and allowing her to really expand into that some more.

Rohini Ross:

Thank you. It was really exciting to witness. It's always exciting when we see our clients make those kind of shifts. So it was fun. And I could see the shift in her face, you know, the lightness, the the light around her was wonderful. And I wanted to reassure her that, even though she wasn't going to necessarily be in this kind of peak experience for the rest of her life, that what she was seeing was what was important, it's not the peak experience, it's important, it's the understanding that has the the value, and that she's going to have the understanding. And that's why I said you can't unsee what you've seen, and we've all had the experiences of forgetting what we've seen, but eventually we will remember. And there's a big difference between not having seen something. And having seen something and forgetting and then remembering. So I really wanted to reassure her about that. And I also think it was really cool that she was able to notice how she was already listening to the call of her heart, or as we might say, the call of the wild that all along, she had known to listen to something deeper than her intellect and that Mateo was doing the same thing as well. And that was how they ended up working with us that they hadn't given up. And they were listening to, you know, what might have been a very small seed of love. But there was something in both of them that were they were both willing to give it one more chance.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, there's a there's a phrase that I like to use is not an original phrase. I've heard other people's use it. So idea, you you thinking with your head, or are you thinking with your heart, or speaking from your head or speaking from your heart. And I feel that's what's very present for me in listening to her and thinking about my session with Mateo is that that's where they've come to then are speaking from their heart. That is the cadence of their language. First before they were very much engaged on an intellectual level.

Rohini Ross:

And that is the Rewilding of love

Angus Ross:

It Is.

Rohini Ross:

And then the next segment, I wanted to bring it back a little bit to talk about the relationship. And you and I can talk a bit more about the practicalities of how this unfolds in relationships. What's most important is that you know that you have that resource inside of you that when the two of you come up against things that are like, Oh, we don't know what to do here, that you both have the capacity to get neutral. And to listen more deeply, and to communicate to each other from that place. And it's with respect. Yeah. And it's, and it's, you communicate, like I said, before, as long as you need to, like it's not, there's no time we notice, like, we just take whatever time and if you get unnatural, like, we got to revisit this another time and go back at it another time.

Alicia:

Totally. Like I know, he has said before, he's like, sometimes he doesn't want to get into these, like deep conversations, because I'm closed minded on it. And so like, I have to see my way, and I need you to see my way. And now it's kind of like one of those things where I'm just kind of like thinking about it and thinking back on it. It's like, should have been more open just to hearing his opinion, because maybe he would have changed, you know, a little bit of what I was thinking, or it would have solidified what I'm thinking.

Rohini Ross:

Exactly. You don't know. Right? You could be really surprised and like, Oh, actually, I agree with him. You know, I didn't think I would. And it's like what happens when you're open like that is you get to hear your deeper. Like I'm saying that deeper wisdom guides the process. And if you're meant to be going over that way, then you'd be like, okay, yeah, I'm on your side now.

Alicia:

Yeah. Or I just agree to disagree and then that's it. That's respectful too. But I know that like for me, it was just like, I'm selling you on my point. And you should be thinking the same way I am. And it's like, no, doesn't necessarily be that.

Rohini Ross:

And it doesn't need to be that and it's absolutely okay for the relationship to not have to agree on everything. Like you can't agree on everything, that'd be impossible.

Angus Ross:

I like the way that you're kind of gently bringing her back down to earth, in a sense here, because I think it's important that she said something she's obviously uplifted by that and excited by that. An I think that it's important to consider or being helped to consider that there will be moments in the future not too distant future, I'm sure where you will get caught up or she'll get caught up, and that's not going to be the end of the world. But it's important that she maybe remembers what she's seen here. And that will help her on a practical level to negotiate those challenges as and when they show up, which they will. And so you're kind of, I guess, trying to point that out,

Rohini Ross:

I thought it was very helpful that she was able to see how she had been very close minded in the past.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, that's fantastic. Because that will help, hopefully put herself in Mateo's shoes in the future to be a little bit more empathic. Rather than being closed minded. Seeing it only from her point of view.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, you can hear some common ground here even in what she's saying between what we've heard in your sessions with Mateo so that makes me very hopeful as well. And that, in that space of having an open mind, I did, as you're saying, I did want to look back to the practicalities and help her see how having an open mind having an open heart is what's needed, when communication is happening in a couple relationship. And that when that's not available, communication tends to not go well. And it's not really that complicated. But we have to know the difference between when we're caught up in our position when we're caught up in a closed mind when we're not really open hearted and when we're not there. And what happens with most couples as they try to communicate from a place of fear, a place of righteousness, which are all indicators that the mind is closed, and the hardest close and communication doesn't go well. And then they take that to mean something about their relationship.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, it seems to be that the ticket is to communicate from one's position of righteousness, when the real way, as I see it, is to always try and put yourself in the other person's shoes. And I think that when we do that, we once again, that's another way that where we where we become present, because when we're putting on putting ourselves in their shoes, we're listening deeply. And if we're listening deeply, in that sense, again, we're not engaging with the intellectual machinery and taking ourselves elsewhere, we're fully present to them what it is, and that in itself is something that's very settling. And in that position of empathy, it's easy to see how compassion is pretty close. And that's the sweet spot as that's the point where people get the shift that they need in a relationship for fear to to feel like it will come work here.

Rohini Ross:

And what's exciting is that they both seem to be experiencing that capacity for empathy right now. So we'll just finish off with this last segment from the session.

Alicia:

Feel like, which is really weird within 24 hours, like it's such a complete 180. And even from like this morning, yeah, like just kind of just being more in tune with yourself and just being like, really, like, out of us of things and just being like, you're not in control. You're not gonna figure it out. It's not gonna happen. Just go with it.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, I know. It's amazing. Because you have the difference of experience between sort of weekly and this and yeah, that's what I love about this is that each session like, it's almost like there's a month in between sessions. Yeah, terms of how they work. And like, what happened so far? I know, I know. It's just amazing. But it's because you're settling. And it's because that intelligence wants to come forward. So it doesn't take a lot. And that's why you know, here sleep, relax, mind open, comes in. Like that's the formula basically.

Alicia:

Yeah. And if you take out any he always mentions like more simpler life, but like now I actually see it like taking out all of the chaos and everything. Like just being in a moment. I'm like, yeah, it'd be nice come back every once in a while.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, you know where it is.

Alicia:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's, it's really interesting to view and it's almost like, how does this not more common sense? Like, how is this novel?

Rohini Ross:

It is common sense, right? Oh, yeah. But but it's like, how is it not for other people? Absolutely, I understand what you mean but once you see it, like it is common sense. Yeah, that's all it is.

Alicia:

It definitely is. It's also like, wait, I was over complicating everything. And I was thinking that things weren't complicated snd I can handle and it's like, what?

Rohini Ross:

I know. Well, it's it's always funny. Like, when when our understanding goes up we look at how we were before, what was I thinking like that's just really normal.

Alicia:

Literally, this whole time, like I gotta be this boss and try to handle everything. No, no. Yeah.

Rohini Ross:

And it's a lot nicer not to have to.

Alicia:

It's so much nicer. You can breathe in and out.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, good. It was a really nice way to This session on that high note. And it's really common when we see something new to look back at how we saw things previously, and to be kind of horrified. I know that I felt that way after I've seen things fresh. It's like, really, I behaved that way, or I thought that before. So I was hoping to help her navigate that in a kind, gentle way. But, of course, it's gonna look kind of crazy when you look back once you see something fresh about it, and that she's now more connected with her own common sense about how to navigate the relationship.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, it kind of almost reminds me of my experience at school with mathematics. I always imagined it was extremely complicated. And for the most part, it still is. But on the rare occasions, where I was able to solve a problem, it was the inherent simplicity in that problem that always kind of blew my mind is actually Oh, gosh, Yeah, wow, this is really simple when you understand it. And I think that this is what's happening for her, she has now quite a good understanding through this insight that she's had. And she sees the inherent simplicity in it. And, obviously, yeah, it sounds like complete common sense, and that's really what we're sharing.

Rohini Ross:

And she's also valuing a quiet mind.

Angus Ross:

Yes, absolutely. And you can see that reflected in her voice, the cadence of her voice.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah, she's liking how she feels. And she realizes that she wants more of that, which is wonderful.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, she's got a taste for the soul.

Rohini Ross:

Tastes for the wild.

Angus Ross:

That's right.

Rohini Ross:

So we've done quite well, I would say with both of them individually. And so now the proof is in the pudding. What's gonna happen when we bring them together?

Angus Ross:

I know!

Rohini Ross:

Is it all gonna go south?

Angus Ross:

This is where we should have our soundman put in a heavy drum roll.

Rohini Ross:

So next session, we'll be sharing how our joint session was when we brought us all together again. So take care. Thank you so much for listening to Rewilding Love. If you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know by subscribing on iTunes, and we would love for you to leave a review there.

Angus Ross:

iTunes reviews will steer people to this podcast who need help with their relationships.

Rohini Ross:

If you would like to learn more about our work and our online community, please visit our website TheRewilders.com

Angus Ross:

Thanks for listening. Join us next week.