Awaken to Love

EP20: George & Linda Pransky: A United Front

• Angus & Rohini Ross • Season 1 • Episode 20

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0:00 | 47:58

Rohini and Angus interview their mentors, George & Linda Pransky. The Pranksys share about how their relationship has evolved over time, and most notably how it changed after they met Syd Banks, the man who first conceptualized the understanding we speak about on this podcast.

Linda describes their first year together as volatile and painful. After talking with Syd, they started getting over conflicts in their relationship quicker -- neither of them were taking things as personally anymore. Seeing that they were moving in the right direction together, they could ease up on trying to work to make the relationship better. Taking away this pressure allowed Linda and George to access a light-heartedness, and their fondness for each other increased tenfold.

George warmly refers to his fondness for Linda now as "omnipresent fondness" that spans "wall to wall". By this he means there is no gap in his fondness for her, and so there's no longer anything to even not take personally. There's no issue! They are so united that they can both rest and trust in the fact that the other would never purposefully hurt the other. This makes asking for an apology, when necessary, easy. 

We let the simplicity and warmth of George and Linda's wisdom and love wash over us. We hope you enjoy "hanging out in their living room" as much as we did.

This episode explores:

  • The arbitrariness of thought
  • It's ok to disagree
  • Relationships as a united front transcends the individuals
  • The hum of fondness 
  • The before and after of the Pranksys learning this understanding

Show notes:
Hair on it: having something on it, in the business world. It's better to not have a hair on it.
Mew: To Rohini's surprise, mew is indeed an alternative form of meow. Mew as a noun, is a gull or a place for hiding, as a verb it can refer to the cry of a cat. Meow refers solely to the cry of a cat.

Linda Pransky specialized in psycho-social nursing, but grew disillusioned by techniques and approaches that didn't seem to create lasting change for people. After her and George met Sydney Banks in 1976, she saw a way to help people create sustainable change. 

Dr. George Pransky has taught the principles for over 30 years to individuals, couples, businesses and colleagues -- he is one of the two professional founders of The Principles of Mind, Thought and Consciousness and the author of The Relationship Handbook.

Both George and Linda serve on the executive committee of the Three Principles Global Community, and continue to pioneer this understanding with new industries and populations. They are both both Partners at Pransky & Associates. Learn more about their work.

Angus & Rohini Ross are “The Rewilders.” They love working with couples and helping them to reduce conflict and discord in their relationships. They co-facilitate individualized couples' intensives that rewild relationships back to their natural state of love. Rohini is the author of the ebook Marriage, and they are co-founders of The 29-Day Rewilding Experience and The Rewilding Community. You can also follow Angus and Rohini Ross on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. To learn more about their work visit: therewilders.org.

Episode 20 features the music of RhythmPharm with Los Angeles-based composer Greg Ellis.

Angus Ross:

Welcome to Rewilding Love. This season is with a couple on the brink of divorce.

Rohini Ross:

This is Episode 20. An interview with George and Linda Pransky.

George Pransky:

If we are both in a low mood we run for the hills.

Linda Pransky:

I can ask them for an apology. From my perspective, no matter how high your level of understanding gets, you still have ups and downs.

Rohini Ross:

It's okay if we take things personally. But that doesn't mean that we can't work it out.

Angus Ross:

It's all a state of mind.

Linda Pransky:

Now, when I get impatient with you, it's just doesn't even affect you.

George Pransky:

I felt like I had to set the record straight.

Angus Ross:

So you got to be philosophically bald.

Linda Pransky:

When you get in a certain state of mind, there's always something to criticize.

George Pransky:

Why is she on my case,

Linda Pransky:

we were just constantly having low mood conversations.

Angus Ross:

I can say let's get a bit hairy for my liking.

Rohini Ross:

You can kind of relax into the relationship.

George Pransky:

So anytime you I know you're struggling,

Linda Pransky:

even though our relationship in some ways was just a big old mess. We saw our learning curve.

George Pransky:

One of the fondest memories to me , is you with your overall

Angus Ross:

the hum of fondness. You are listening to Rewilding Love with me Angus Ross, and me Rohini Ross. Rewilding Love is a podcast about relationships.

Rohini Ross:

We believe that love never disappears completely in relationships. It can always be rewilded.

Angus Ross:

listen in as we speak with our guests about how they share the understanding behind the rewilding metaphor and their work,

Rohini Ross:

and how it has helped them in their relationships.

Angus Ross:

Relax and enjoy the show.

Rohini Ross:

I'm so grateful that we get to have George and Linda Pransky on this episode, I felt like it was a really beautiful informal conversation like her sitting with them in their living room.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, I'm thrilled to have them on our podcast because I feel like they were instrumental in changing our lives quite radically.

Rohini Ross:

Absolutely. George and Linda P ransky have been sharing this understanding for over 40 years, and they are teachers and mentors. And what they have shared with us had a dramatic impact on our relationship, transforming it from a pretty conflictual relationship. Is that how you would describe it? I would say one that has a lot more love peace, kindness, generosity, in it, and that actually allows us to work together now.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, um, week doesn't go by probably a day doesn't go by without me referencing one of their teaching points or stories. So they're very influential in the work that we do, I feel.

Rohini Ross:

And you'll hear the mentioned said in the podcast episode, and they're referring to Sidney banks who was their teacher, and they learned from him and he helped transform their lives as well as the lives of many other people.

Angus Ross:

And you will also hear their cat if you listen carefully, which I want to point out Rohini his response to the cat meowing was one of Glee which was diametrically opposed to her response when I took a sip of my tea when she looked at me with very shall I say, with daggers It was not something that she felt terribly impressed by let's say and yet the cat meowing is perfectly okay, because I hasten to add Rohini is a is a big cat lover, so cat can do no wrong. But little old anger sipping his mug of tea was entirely problematic.

Rohini Ross:

Yes, there is a fair amount of background noise in some of the segments of this episode, so you'll just have to go with the living room feel.

Angus Ross:

I guess I guess as far as I'm concerned, I feel like this is zero tolerance background noise and I am a bit fidgety I have to say, but, but they were given a very wide berth on that front including the cat.

Rohini Ross:

Well, they're the guests. You're my co host.

Angus Ross:

Okay.

Rohini Ross:

Do you really think you should be sipping tea and banging it on the table?

Angus Ross:

Oh, it was I didn't even realize that banged it on the table. I thought it was the noise that I made gulping it down. It's I nearly choked on.

Rohini Ross:

It was the clinking on the table.

Angus Ross:

Oh, I didn't realize that. I thought it was a gulping noise that you didn't like

Rohini Ross:

I didn't notice the gulping

Angus Ross:

Oh, funny. There you go separate realities.

Rohini Ross:

We should have a contest to see if people can give us a timestamp for the cat meow.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, that should be a prize. And the prize should be the relationship handbook. So the first person that contacts us, and lets us know at what point the cat mood did mute or did it Meow,

Rohini Ross:

Meow. Meow

Angus Ross:

Moo moo does past tense, right? Meow. Meow. Oh, does it

Rohini Ross:

count me out?

Angus Ross:

It never muse. I think it means to Oh, it has a different octave to it. That mu is the meow or actually, yeah, it's two syllables. Maybe there's a whole cat language or not even

Rohini Ross:

what's the prize? And how did they get it?

Angus Ross:

completely gone off on a tangent? Well, they get the prize if they can let us know when the cat meow old. And at what point?

Rohini Ross:

So the prize is George Pransky's book the relationship handbook.

Angus Ross:

Yes.

Rohini Ross:

Wow. We're going spontaneous impromptu in the moment. And just because I like to be clear, are you saying it's one prize for the first person?

Angus Ross:

Yes. Only one book. Okay, let's not go crazy.

Rohini Ross:

And it the first person that lets us know the correct time that the cat meows?

Angus Ross:

Yes.

Rohini Ross:

Okay.

Angus Ross:

Yeah.

Rohini Ross:

All right.

Angus Ross:

I like that.

Rohini Ross:

So now,

Angus Ross:

I think that wouldn't be appropriate.

Rohini Ross:

One of the themes that we got a lot of questions on was about not taking things personally, in relationships and how that's helpful. And I think sometimes people have trouble understanding that and what that means. And we've obviously spoken to it in the way we speak to it. But I'd love to hear what your thoughts are about not taking things personally in relationship and how that helps.

Linda Pransky:

For my view, really, I think that taking things personally, it is a really a big part of my mood. My mood is up, I tend not to take things personally, if my mood is down, I tend to take things personally. So it's, uh, you know, so when I'm surprised sometimes about how, you know, I will take something personally and then actually, I'll go, Oh, yeah, I must be kind of as an indicator of my mood. But what's also true is that I, George and I are close enough. And on each other's side enough. We're not in competition. not competing for anything. So I can ask him, I can ask him for an apology. And I could say that really over my feelings, zero, go up, sorry. And that will do it. For me. It's so easy for me to ask him for what I want. And I don't always know that people in relationships feel comfortable to say, to just say, look, that are my feelings, you will meet up, I know that you owe me an apology. But I'd like an apology that would help me out. And I don't know that couples feel comfortable doing that. And Georgia, and I feel really comfortable kind of getting in a in a skirmish and then asking for an apology, which is really a way of saying Did you mean it? Did you mean to say that an apology really equates to? It's kind of shorthand for? Did you mean to say that? Or did you mean to say something else? So when when I do take something personally, it's really easy for me to say to him take that back. And he does. He's Oh, I take a bath. I didn't, you know mean that to come across the way you thought it came across? Now I know that if I was better, I understood more. If my level of consciousness was higher, I'm imagining this. I'm thinking if my level was higher if I understood more, I wouldn't need to do that. But I don't know. Because I really do see it as mood related. Yeah. And I don't think that I don't think I think from my perspective, no matter how high your level of understanding gets, you still have ups and downs. Yeah. So that's my answer.

Rohini Ross:

I love that. It really there's some real gentleness and being able to accept wherever we're at and understand that it's okay. If we get caught up, it's okay if we take things personally, but that doesn't mean that we can't work it out.

Linda Pransky:

Yeah. And the thing is like, I know what I love to be able to work that out when I'm in a low mood, I'd love to be able to work that out on my own. And sometimes I do. But it really helps me to say to George, did you mean it really helps me. Then you too? Yeah. Sometimes, like when he's down and I say something, he says, Did you and I can tell it hit some wrong. He takes it personally. He'll say to me that you mean that? Oh, no. I didn't mean, there's no way that I wouldn't mean something to hurt you or make you feel bad? And if I did intentionally do it, he was my bad. Because that would mean I was really in a low place.

Angus Ross:

And what about if you're both in a low mood? And is it a case of just waiting for someone else to settle, or you're just trust that someone will settle and equilibrium will be restored?

Linda Pransky:

Here's the deal about that we're both in a low mood, it doesn't take us long to recognize that there's a quality of interaction that we have, when we're both in a low mood that we we like see it? And basically, we just separate?

George Pransky:

ioYeah, we go to work. Yeah,

Linda Pransky:

I mean, there's, we are time that there is a certain quality of conversation or interaction that happens when we're both in a low mood, and we kind of simultaneously wake up to it go. And then we just split.

George Pransky:

oAnother way, you could say is that if we're both in Hello, world, we went for the hills. Because we just know, when we're both up to no good. We register. And we go to our corners, because we know that we're you know, over our heads.

Angus Ross:

I love that in over our heads,

Rohini Ross:

Run for the hills when you're in over your head.

George Pransky:

Yeah, yeah.

Angus Ross:

And I think a lot of people get caught up with, you know, their position of righteousness, and they can't see the mood that they're in or the state of mind that they're in and will defend their cause to the death. Yeah. And will always say But yeah, you know, on some level, I think when we work with couples, they still want to maintain their rights, and they're wrong, if only they would change and it's a hard nut for them to swallow that. It's all about state of mind when fundamentally my partner is wrong.

Linda Pransky:

You know, interestingly, you know, like, our relationship has changed in that. I would when I would get reactive, when I get upset, he take it personal. He doesn't anymore. And I and I can see it, I'll be upset about something and I'll be talking to him and I can see it's just not, it just is not getting affected by my upset. Have you noticed that?

George Pransky:

No, actually, I haven't really, you know, that's new. that's new to me.

Linda Pransky:

No, but I commented to you, like, when I've gotten impatient with you?

George Pransky:

Oh, yeah.

Linda Pransky:

When I've gotten impatient with you, in the past, I could tell you would react with annoyance, right? or, or, you know, some form of upset. Now when I get impatient with you, it's just doesn't even affect you. How do you see that differently? Like before you took it personally, and now you don't? What is the anatomy of that? Well,

George Pransky:

I see. If you get upset. I see it as Oh, it means that Linda, took it personally.

Linda Pransky:

So if I get impatient with you use because that's where I see that change is when I get impatient with you. You just doesn't ruffle your feathers. Because you see what

George Pransky:

what's behind it. So and what's behind it. What's behind it is that Linda is struggling with my the way I'm dealing with life. Nothing to do with me.

Linda Pransky:

Like I'm struggling with you. Yeah, it really doesn't have anything to do with you.

George Pransky:

Yeah. doesn't have anything to do with with me of that interest. So if all it is is that

Linda Pransky:

you see me as struggling.

George Pransky:

Yeah. Yeah, what

Linda Pransky:

did you see before?

George Pransky:

Whoa, before I felt like I had to set set the record straight. And what do you mean? Like,

Linda Pransky:

like you weren't doing anything wrong or something like that?

George Pransky:

Yeah, I'm thinking, why is she? On my case? I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. And I would feel like I had to set the record straight.

Linda Pransky:

And now you just see yourself, but you just see me as struggling. Yeah.

George Pransky:

I can tell you that you're struggling. Because you're tight. Yeah. tense. Yeah. So anytime you tense. I know you're struggling. Whereas before, that wasn't enough for me. I had to figure out how I wasn't the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Or how I wasn't contributing to the problem. Whereas now, I would say, What difference does it make? If If lift is not the problem? What Why does that matter?

Angus Ross:

There's such a huge shift in awareness, though. People will will say that, yeah, you know, if What if my partner is getting impatient? And then they'll say, yeah, that's really upsetting. And I'm upset because they're impatient. My my state of mind was great until they got impatient. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then to be able to view it from that vantage point that they're struggling. And they're having difficulty. It's such an amazing thing to consider. Because it's like, yeah, it just like, I don't have to take any responsibility in the sense of other than the fact that I see that it's, it's nothing to do with my state of mind. it's to do with their state of mind. Well, it's to do with state of mind just period, it's always in mind. And I don't have to take that personally. But it's so I'm I'm sure that the rule of thumb generally for a lot of people is that, yeah, if they weren't impatient, I wouldn't get upset. And then I think it gets confusing for people, because then they think it's well, this is all about state of mind, really, my state of mind was fine until they got impatient. But this is just an understanding allows us to see I don't need to take that personally, because they're struggling. That's such a huge paradigm shift.

George Pransky:

In a way, you're saying. What does that have to do with me that they're struggling with? Right? No, it just means that they're struggling in its its independence, independent of me now, it would be helpful for if I was compassionate, of of her, the fact that someone's struggling. But it's not. At the heart of the matter. However, the man is, if I'm taking it personally, then that's on me. Yeah. Another concept, and I don't think I don't know how well this is gonna go over. But in the business world, job be conversations it in that conversation, someone will say, Oh, I don't know about this, about this situation, because it had it has here. Yes, how they say it in the business. I don't know about I don't know about

Angus Ross:

fungal hair on it.

George Pransky:

It has here. And they know exactly what the year is, is, is this an emotional component to it. And in the business world doesn't like an emotional component. You don't want to deal with something that has eroded because Ryan sticky.

Angus Ross:

Just like having hair on it is really another way of saying they're taking it personally.

George Pransky:

Yeah, they're taking it personally. There's unfinished business attached to it. Now, the thing that's interesting to me is everybody knows what that means. So if anybody would say, gee, you know, this is not good. This is good here are

Angus Ross:

going to say that to you.

George Pransky:

And everybody understands that if you go ahead with something that has air on it, you're gonna have the hair on you.

Angus Ross:

Right. So you got to be philosophically bold.

George Pransky:

Yeah, you got to refill stuff. That's exactly right.

Angus Ross:

The next time we get into specs I can see let's get a bit hairy for my liking.

George Pransky:

Yeah, exactly.

Rohini Ross:

You're gonna be saying you're getting a bit hairy. Right?

George Pransky:

When I was like, with people like Kevin Gleason or Steve Adams, they would point that out that they said, well, robot sees that, well, I wish this didn't they have a hair on? And yeah, if you send them, what do you mean by taking things personally? And what do you mean by something that's upsetting, difficult to deal with, they'd have no idea what you're interested, but they understand the concept of here on it. They know that that's not good to have here. And they know what to do about it. Well, we got to go back to the drawing board of this. Well, that's amazing that they understand it so well.

Angus Ross:

We should rename our podcasts, unwanted hair removal. Yeah. relationship and unwanted hair removal?

Rohini Ross:

Well, I was thinking, well, this is giving a whole new understanding to the term hairy eyeball. Yeah. That's great. And and I love what you're pointing to in terms of people have a feel for that. And their common sense kicks in when they understand but what happens in relationship is that we lose perspective, and we lose our common sense often. And that situation that you and Linda, were talking about, it's really commonly Angus will say to me, like, you're being really stern. And that's me being tight. And if he's able to see that with perspective, then he sees I'm struggling. But if he doesn't have perspective, he'll get defensive, like you're saying, and try to tell me why I shouldn't be stern and why he's doing something. Right. And it usually goes south from there.

George Pransky:

Yeah.

Angus Ross:

Yeah. And in the past, I would have also, I would have taken it personally. And then I might have been even as gone as far as to think, Well, what does this mean about me? Why Why am I so affected by this? Why am I so insecure in the face of her impatience? And then want to go digging in there? And my state of mind goes even further south?

George Pransky:

Yeah,

Angus Ross:

I can put the onus on her. And her state of mind is like, yeah, you know, she's just caught up.

Linda Pransky:

I think people just people don't like being criticized, right? categorically don't like being criticized. And so they react to criticism, get defensive, but if like, you see that it's coming out of the state of mind, that they wouldn't be criticizing you if they were in a different state of mind. You know, cuz there's always a, you know, when you get into certain certain state of mind, there's always something to criticize. Right? And I mean, whether you do it silently or overtly, there's when you get in a certain state of mind, there's always something to criticize, goes find something. But I think that, you know, I think that understanding that, you know, it's about state of mind is really helpful.

Angus Ross:

I love what they're saying here. And as always, I love George's metaphors and George's stories. And this side of it being here, or it has hair on it. I guess, I heard it as being hairy. And it's interesting, isn't it, it's how a sense of neutrality gets lost in emotional content comes in to a situation I'm thinking of. I have had a couple of clients who are lawyers. One in particular, was a defense lawyer. And we're talking about going into a courtroom. And as soon as soon as that sense of neutrality was lost, and the emotion came in where the other person was taking it personally, he kind of had them in the palm of his hand. So neutrality was a very important commodity in that courtroom, as it is in a relationship. And as soon as emotional content comes in where someone is taking it personally, things become problematic, but I love this idea. It has hair on it. So that's so George is such a brilliant metaphor. He is the metaphor King. I really look up to I really look up to him in that sense. It's like I try to imply the use of metaphors, but he's always the person that you know, that I think, you know, what would your say in this situation?

Rohini Ross:

Well, I think you have great metaphors too. And that metaphor is very apropos right now with our Husky, who's in his spring. Low is that what they call it, his coat is blowing. That's what they call this.

Angus Ross:

They do. They do.

Rohini Ross:

Every piece of black clothing that I have have hair on it.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, I'm wearing black clothing. Today I made mistake of hugging him. Looks like I have to tone angora sweater.

Rohini Ross:

But I do think it's important to recognize that relationships aren't like business. And so we're going to be really hairy in relationships. If you don't want to get hair on you, then you probably are better off not being in relationship.

Angus Ross:

It's true. Exactly. Hair is a part of relationship.

Rohini Ross:

And that it's an integral part of our own growth, too. That's what I really appreciate about personal relationships, and especially romantic intimate relationships is I feel that I'm constantly growing, and learning and learning about myself and seeing things more deeply. Because I have to, there's just no way to not be in relationship in a way that is loving and open and intimate, without having to see things more deeply within myself about what gets in the way of that.

Angus Ross:

Yeah, and I guess for me, I'm sure it is for most people. Now, it's not just standing under their belt, is that when one notices that one's taking the other person's behavior. Personally, that is actually a good indicator that one state of mind has gone south. And that's a really good awareness to build upon.

Rohini Ross:

And when state of mind goes south, it's just an opportunity to be gentle and kind with ourselves know, we're going to come back into balance, but also recognize that we're on the edge, we're on our growing edge. And that's a good place to be we want to be growing like that's a beautiful thing about us as human beings, we're always growing in consciousness. And so when things get hairy, it just means that we're on the edge of that growth point. And this next section is really beautiful because George is sharing what he's seeing more deeply for himself after his stroke.

George Pransky:

Well, one thing we have this in this is this think the benefit of the stroke that that that I had... I have a fondness for Linda. That is that's there over all the time. It's it's an ongoing fulness so it's there all the time. Like when I go to bed at night, I can feel that fun is if if I looking look at it her in the kitchen. I have that fondness. So it seems to be only present on the presence of the president for this.

Linda Pransky:

Now, I feel like you had that fondness for me before the stroke.

George Pransky:

Well, it was it was interrupted by things yeah, by your moments when I was upset with you or distracted by something. Yeah, I'll just back this up. So this is wall to wall, foreignness whereas before the stroke I I had intermittent for this now I thought intermittent fondness was pretty good. That that, you know, that was that was no that was

Linda Pransky:

how relationships work. Yeah. But I mean, I we've always, you know, we've always had a I would say, are really good partnerships since we met sit. And we met said very early on in our relationship we'd only been together for about a year before we met said and then maybe two years into our relationship where what we what it said was teaching was really taking hold of us and turning our relationship around but because before we met said we had a whole lot of conflict in our relationship. That was hard. It was really difficult. I mean, it was very hard on us the conflict we had. And then afterwards we met sit, we had less conflict. And then the conflict we did have, we didn't, it just didn't have the hold on us. It didn't affect us like it did before he met said. So, it's funny, because after we met said, things that were negative or hard work, we either held them lightly, or if it got intense, we forget about it really fast. It's not something we would remember. I mean, we would take our we wouldn't hold it, and nurse it. We try to get it into the distance, distant past as fast as possible. After we met said that would, when things were difficult, and when it was conflict, we tried to get away from it as fast as we could.

Angus Ross:

You wouldn't take it so seriously.

Linda Pransky:

Well, it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't that it was different than that. It was like if we had an intense conflict after, and we took it really seriously. And then we could see ourselves starting to get over it, we would get over it as fast as we could move in the direction of getting over it, and not remembering it. In other words, we just wouldn't go go to the path about the children.

George Pransky:

And I, I thought of the district differently. After my stroke, because I just I took my, my fondness went to a whole nother level. That's true, that's true, so that I was spared a lot of discomfort. So before that, there was some discomfort. And we had a learning curve where there was less discomfort.

Linda Pransky:

So I mean, we were really good. We were really good at getting over stuff. Yeah, as a partnership. We were amazing at getting over stuff after we met sit in. And now what you're saying is there's nothing to get over.

George Pransky:

That's right. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that this fundus protects us from

Linda Pransky:

having to get over, get over, getting getting into things that we have to get over the finders protects us from getting into things that we would have had to get over. That's true.

Rohini Ross:

Linda, when you were talking about how your relationship shifted, after hearing said speak and the difference in conflict, how it was a lot of conflict. And then really minimal, even if you still had to get over it a little bit at that point, what was so helpful about what Sid shared that allowed that shift to happen?

Linda Pransky:

There were two things about it that were really helpful. One is that CIT really showed us that your thinking changes with your mood, and you don't want to have low mood conversations. And if that helped us unbelievably because it seemed like we were just constantly having low mood conversations, we'd start talking from a low mood, and we just learned to stop it. And it really helped our relationship because, you know, you start a low mood conversation, it could go on for hours, and then you take a break and you started next day. And then the other thing is like that really helped us as the understanding of separate realities, and the people think differently. And it's there's no right or wrong necessarily, in the way people think and that you can agree to disagree and you don't you know, just people see different in a sense in the secular world. Meaning the world of thought in the secular world, in the world of thought everybody has the right to think the way they want to think and you don't necessarily have to work it out and agree on things. You could just respect each other's point of view. And so, in my mind, I don't know if George would agree, but we kind of let each other have our have their each opinion and not feel like we had to have the same opinion about things. Or do things the same way. And then the other thing was the arbitrariness of thought. how people think. So that it this is, this is what I saw. I don't know if George saw this, but how arbitrary thinking is, and that will get attached to an arbitrary way of going about things having to do with thought that, for example, I wasn't right about being impatient, I was just impatient, said some arbitrary way of thinking, or I wasn't right about being bothered by things was just an arbitrary way of thinking. We just saw that so much of my positions or opinions, or the way habits or way of being that I was, say, that didn't work out or that would, would create conflict, I realized, with conflict between us our conflict and myself, there was no basis of, of, of truth. Yeah. That was a hard believably helpful to see that in. Most of my ways of thinking, it wasn't based in truth,

George Pransky:

when I resonated with is that everybody has alert a learning curve. As soon as they see, too, they, they have a learning curve. So you could go go back in a couple of history. And, and you could see it, it would be very tangible. You'd see how they said it took them less time to get over things. They were they were very resilient. That just they were very observable benefits. That said, was pointing to very observable benefits. They didn't matter how, how sharp uppers, personal learning curve, it only mattered if they had a learning curve.

Linda Pransky:

I think what he's saying is that for us, even though our relationship, in some ways was just a big old mess, we saw our learning curve. So we could see the progress. And so it didn't matter how bad we were, because we could see ourselves moving in the right direction.

Rohini Ross:

That's really hopeful.

Linda Pransky:

It was very helpful. So we felt that even though say, we are getting more than we liked, or we just, you know,

George Pransky:

we knew that things were headed

Linda Pransky:

in the right direction. So in a way, it didn't matter to us.

George Pransky:

Yeah.

Rohini Ross:

It takes the pressure off is what I'm hearing. It's it's like you don't have to rush. You just know that you're, it's unfolding and improving. And that's natural.

Linda Pransky:

Exactly.

Rohini Ross:

You can kind of relax into the relationship. Yeah,

Linda Pransky:

well, yeah. Because you so we would get in conflict and have a fight. And then we feel bad about it. And then we realize, Oh, it was it wasn't as bad or it was shorter. You know, we we forgave faster. So we'd started noticing our improvements and that mattered.

Unknown:

And I'll tell you some, it was a it was a game changer, because we knew that we were improving. And we knew that a learning curve was in offered so that we weren't hopeless. We were concerned about ourselves. We weren't concerned about the other person. So it really made a big difference when we turn the corner. It really put things in perspective for us.

Rohini Ross:

You were able to take the relationship off your mind and not have it be something to think about or fix or worry about.

George Pransky:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Linda Pransky:

You know what I'm, you know, I've been thinking about how we pretty much had a continual feeling of respect and regard and unity in our relationship and confidence that we could work things out. Like we had each other's back, and I don't know, there was kind of a continual feeling over united front. and mutual respect and support that was constant. After we've met said, I mean, it was incremental that we built towards it. And then it became, at some point locked in, and it was just this kind of, we were just together. So instead of there being a favorite moment, to me, it was, I don't know, this feeling of constant support and unity and respect and being on each other side and kind of like this hump. Yeah. You know, at some point, after we worked things out, kind of got on the same page and worked it all out. We just got connected in that way.

Angus Ross:

The hum of fondness.

George Pransky:

Yeah.

Rohini Ross:

I like that. Yeah.

Linda Pransky:

I don't know that I ever really appreciate it. I think I took it for granted. The sum was greater than the parts. When you really stop fighting, or you don't take fighting seriously, you stop competing. It's a way of being on each other's side that is so helpful and rich, and I, so I could for me to describe, but like, do you understand why people don't get there is because they're competitive, or they're, you know, take things personally, or they get righteous about their position or so there's a lot of little things that keep them from being a united front. But once you take those little things, that tally away those little things away, and you become a united front, it's just an incredible way to live.

George Pransky:

Yeah. You've been you've become really bulletproof. So everything works for you. It's a magical to me.

Rohini Ross:

The way you talk about how your relationship was impacted, listening to said, I feel that that's how you impacted me and our relationship.

Linda Pransky:

Well, thank you.

Rohini Ross:

The way that you're describing your experience of the relationship, I realized that before learning from you, I would be so caught up in my personal position, my righteousness, all of that petty thinking in a way. And I and I thought that the relationship was about my needs be met better. Now I look at and and how selfish that was, but I didn't see that at the time.

Linda Pransky:

That's really,

George Pransky:

really profound,

Linda Pransky:

profound thing to see. Yeah. Cuz it's when people get self absorbed into what they need. And, and then positional about how they think. And it just keeps you from being a united front.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah.

George Pransky:

It makes the relationships seem transcendent. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing. You can say that that's powerful. Yeah. It takes you out the view and them. Yes. And then it's, yeah.

Linda Pransky:

The relationship you transcend each person. Yeah.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah.

Linda Pransky:

That's perfect. Yeah, that's what I was trying to say you said it. It transcends you.

Rohini Ross:

Yeah. And that's what's so amazing, like the way that you're talking about your relationship, it is transcendent, those qualities. But from sort of the before, it looked like Well, no, I need to get my needs met in order to enjoy my relationship. But when I let my needs go, when I realize how petty they are, and how selfish they are, what's available on the other side is so much greater and richer and deeper and more powerful and beautiful. And as you're saying bulletproof. Like I feel like I mean, I don't want to be cocky, but I do feel like our relationship is bulletproof. Now I feel like we can handle anything that comes Is our way because of the transcendent qualities that we experience. More often than not, maybe not all the time, but a lot of the time, and certainly in a way that we didn't experience it before. We weren't quite sure where to include this next segment. And then Angus, you thought it would be good to end on?

Angus Ross:

Yeah, I think it's gonna be not, not in the same way that you might have the outtakes at the end of the movie was just where do we put this? It needs to be in there. But it's just George sharing one of his really fond memories of Linda. And I thought it was a really sweet moment.

Rohini Ross:

It's really touching. Yeah.

George Pransky:

One of the fondest memories for for me, is you with your overalls.

Linda Pransky:

Which which overalls?

George Pransky:

You have those overalls

Linda Pransky:

those overalls, the tan ones.

George Pransky:

I love that memory. It's a very, very fun moment.

Linda Pransky:

Well, I have a fond memory of you and that, Remember that? That kind of lavender string t shirt that used to wear in Berkeley?

Rohini Ross:

I wanna see a picture of that.

George Pransky:

Remember that? No, I don't have this. what's lavender? what's a synonym for purple?

Linda Pransky:

was purple. It wasn't so much string. It was like, um,

Angus Ross:

like a string vest kind of thing?

Linda Pransky:

It was like a vest. Yeah. But for summer. And I just remember you wearing that all the time, and I really liked it.

Rohini Ross:

Thank you so much for listening to Rewilding Love. If you enjoyed this podcast, please let us know by subscribing on iTunes. And we would love for you to leave a review there.

Angus Ross:

iTunes reviews will steer people to this podcast who need help with their relationships.

Rohini Ross:

If you would like to learn more about our work and our online rewilding community, please visit our website, therewilders.org

Angus Ross:

Thanks for listening. Join us next week.