Way back before the pandemic began, I had a question. What does it take for a city person to go country in 2015, I set out to explore through photography, writing. And now this podcast in February, I recorded most of the interviews for the first season. I plan to launch in April of 2020, the five year anniversary of the project, but then everything turned upside down. And it just didn't feel like the right time to launch because so much had changed overnight. As the initial shock of the pandemic wore off, it became clear that many people with the means to do so we're leaving cities in droves. Recent data has shown that nearly 16 million people have relocated in the US this year, making the concept of an urban Exodus even more relevant. So while some of the interviews in the season were conducted before the pandemic, the topics they discuss the questions they raise, and the answers they provide are more urgent than ever. I'm Alissa Hessler, welcome to the urban Exodus. I am excited to invite you to my conversation with Sherry Powell, the founder of the mission driven Gift Box Company, yours rurally. Sherry was raised in a small town in Georgia, but moved to DC after college and built a successful career on Capitol Hill before moving to the corporate world in New York City. Growing up in a struggling rural community with a per capita income of under $9,000 a year. Sherry's great passion in life is rural advocacy. She created yours rurally. To support and celebrate really based entrepreneurs. Sherry has been an inspiration and guiding force to me this year. Without her encouragement and friendship, I probably wouldn't have finished this podcast. So I'm really excited to share our candid conversation about all things rural, and what a truly wild ride 2020 has been. First off, tell us about your childhood, where you grew up, how it informs who you are today, and how you ended up, you know, moving to the city, and starting your career.
Sherri Powell:Born and raised in a small rural area in South Georgia, where my dad is from and went to public high school there. It's um, it's Wheeler County, Georgia, it's it is now today consider the third poorest county in the United States and was very much that way. During my childhood and upbringing there, you know, just a tower. Truly or just rule in every way where everyone knows each other. You go to school with the same person from pre K to graduating from 12th grade. And then after high school, I went to the University of Georgia on the Hope Scholarship, which cover tuition which was fantastic. And then after undergrad I moved to DC, Washington DC because I was a political science major. I knew that I wanted to work in the political arena in some way. And so I moved to DC and worked for a congressman from Arizona. And I was a staff assistant, which basically means you're answering the phones, you're basically the office secretary and you're serving constituents truly started at the very, very bottom in terms of Capitol Hill career. And I was only with him for about three months when the senator at the time from Georgia passed away. And the governor appointed Zell Miller to fill that Senate seat. And so I thought well, it would be really neat to actually serve my home state in this way. So as soon as Zell Miller was appointed out, went over, literally walked over to the to the office and introduced myself and then got an opportunity to work for him to actually work for my home state. So I stayed in DC for 12 long years and then decided that just wanted to change a scenery and and was really hoping to move to Colorado, just for the for the nature and just for the sunshine and just I was just really attracted to Colorado and so a job search there. Nothing came to fruition and I ended up moving to Brooklyn. I was going to work for the New York, New York State Government and then just before my start date, Hurricane Sandy happened, the office building where I was going to work was was damaged and so you know, there was a delay in start date and during that delay the person I was going to work report to Ashley left. So for a year, I was really just hanging out and during that time I actually met my now husband and then eventually Started hustling in terms of finding a job. And so went into back to the corporate space working for an insurance company AIG and I was there for five years, shortly after having my daughter just wanted, wanted to do something a little bit different. And then went to a fin tech company, which was China based, but they had this this new or newly opened New York office. And you know, I don't know if we should jump into this, right, you know, now, but I just knew, you know, this whole time just knew that there was something that else I should be doing to something that was more aligned with my own values, and something that was just a bit more impactful in terms of community. And so and I know, we talked about this before, but, you know, this transition was hard, because, you know, just growing up again, the way I did and, and especially from a financial perspective, right, not growing up with a lot of means, and from No, nowhere close to having any thing that resembled well, and suddenly having, you know, an income that was pretty respectful, it's hard to transition out of that. And that took, you know, I was in corporate for way longer than maybe I should have been just because it was financially safe and, frankly, good. Yeah, you know, I wouldn't even say that, even when I was after I left Capitol Hill, truthfully, I, I had this idea of doing something something advocacy related, I just didn't know how to do it, right. While still making making some some money. And during my time, you know, at AIG, I remember sitting in my, in my office some days, and I would literally browse the stories on urban Exodus and sort of daydream and use those as examples of an inspiration in terms of what I could possibly do. I knew that farming was not, I just knew that wasn't an option for me, just because, I mean, I'm just for a million reasons. And so, you know, but just browsing the website for inspiration. And really just what some of the folks who have made that transition, how do they how do they do it and still make make money. And so bookmarking ideas and just thinking about, how can I make this worked for me in a way that I enjoy what I'm doing, I'm also able to still make a living. So then there was a situation where, you know, I love gifting, I love putting a lot of thought in and I love doing it in a beautiful way. And so I you know, and I and this business model is certainly not new. And so I just thought, Well, number one, this is the startup costs are pretty doable. I didn't see that this existed anywhere else in terms of what yours really does. And so I knew that I would love it. Because these are my people rightly these are, this is the type of person who I admire, and who inspires me. So if I can actually get to know their work and their product and build a relationship with them, and it's a win win for everyone. And I enjoyed the process, right? So I started yours really for myself as a knee that I want it right where it's just this exists, I don't have to do sit down and do the research and, and come up with and beautiful myself, it's already done for me. So in some ways, it was just um, I'm because I'm the customer, the ideal customer,
Alissa Hessler:tell us about your journey to callicoon and how you found your home there.
Sherri Powell:So that idea also came about after, after my daughter was born. As shortly after I moved to New York, I knew that I was I mean, I immediately started to find somewhere to get away because I did that all throughout DC to err on the weekends it was I was on a trail or camping because it's just I just need it from a mental health standpoint. And so that's just always been, you know, just kind of a part of my lifestyle. And so shortly after I moved here, I knew I've seek out the same here, which was easy with the Catskills being so close to New York City. So my third weekend in New York, I discovered this area and callicoon. And so, you know, just come up for hikes and canoe trips just by myself because at that time, I just didn't really know many people in New York, so So was just hanging out on the weekends, but the time whenever I had the free time. And then after my daughter was born, I knew that I wanted her to have exposure to this type of life as well. And so, seven months after she was born, we started to look for real estate, eventually we did it was you know, just for the weekend, sometimes it would be we'd only come up once a month, if things were you know, work with, you know, if we were busy with work, it would just be you know, just whenever we can make it so we were doing this, this was just the place for us to come on the weekends up until early March. And as soon as the number started to go up, my husband was laid off. So at that point, you know, it was a no brainer to come up for the long haul. And of course at that point we thought it would be three weeks four weeks here we are on what month, month eight or seven or eight so and have you know it's still a conversation that we're having but this is pretty much you know, we're we're digging in and this is now home.
Alissa Hessler:What does it felt like to live there full time as opposed to just come in on the weekends? What have you learned new things have you learned about your community? They're
Sherri Powell:so for yours Rowley, it has been a complete and total godsend in some ways. I mean, I've it's just been so easy for me to meet fellow makers and fellow entrepreneurs just now saying that I'm, I'm based here and I'm here, this is home, you know, when I make a cold email or a cold call to a potential vendor, and I can say this is where I'm based on the conversation is warm within a minute at that point, right. I mean, it's just an instant community because now I'm, I'm here is it just, it has been a game changer for the business in so many ways. But the vendors who I sourced from, some of them are my neighbors, you know, and that's, that's powerful to be able to say that to a potential corporate client, or a bride and groom who wants to give for their wedding. So it's been for the business, it's just been, I mean, just fantastic. Personally, my partner, he's definitely happier in the city in the city life that we had. So that's, there's a little bit of tension there to be completely frank and candid for my child, I just can't I it gives me so much joy, just to say that I'm raising her here every day in so many ways, as hard as this all is, I pinch myself that I'm able to, to give this experience to her, you know, during this time, especially just to be able to, you know, we talk about homeschool, I just feel like I'm so fortunate in the sense that we walk outside, and we talk about the leaves changing colors, you know, during the summer, we were on the river every day, and it was just like, these are lessons like this is no, this is Teacher resilience. This is teachers, water safety is just, it's everything. You know, and not that we couldn't have done things like that in the city, but I just feel overwhelmed in terms of graciousness, just that I have this classroom that's called rural America, right. You know, and then, from my mental health, it's also just been, I mean, it's been my, my therapy, my medicine to be able to literally go half a mile down the road and do a hike, right, it's been just, mentally, I'm so thankful, I don't know, I could not have written this pandemic out with ease or grace. In New York City, I just know, just knowing myself, I just could not have so many other people can and are, and that's terrific. But just for myself, I know I would have had a really hard time. So I think was helping me get through these days is just, you know, just being sure that I take time to connect with people who are willing to be real, who are truly being authentic and the struggles they're having right now. Right? Not not making it seem flowery and glossy and untrue. Right. So every conversation I have like that, where I feel like there's some I you know, I get validation from that, I feel like, it's just a reminder there, we're all in a difficult place right now. And like, you know, it's, it's not easy for anyone. So just remind myself of that is helpful. And also just, you know, really just trying to show up in a more more present way, no matter what it is, whether I'm, you know, packing a gift, right? Just be sure that that's fully what I'm focused on at that time, if I'm out picking apples with Tecla and making sure that I'm fully focused on that, like really just trying to be disciplined about being as present as possible has is helpful.
Alissa Hessler:How has your daughter
Sherri Powell:adjusted, that has been a bit tough for me, just as a witness, I think that she has completely not missed a beat and she's as happy as ever. I actually think she's, you know, she's her development is, you know, I everything seems great and normal, I do feel like I'm at someone you know, she was in daycare full time, during our time in the city. So to go from having that socialization all day, five days a week to none, has been a problem as a mom to see that I think has been challenging. I really don't know if she's affected by it. Or if she's you know, she doesn't show any emotions around that. I think it's more of me internalizing that but at the same time when I when I can balance that what she is getting and what she's been exposed to all in all, I think everything is great and she's you know, she's she's in good shape. And she's just popped in here here. Hi, Deborah. I can't see you. You can't
Alissa Hessler:I can't see you either. But I can I can imagine your adorable little face.
Sherri Powell:We will do a FaceTime or something soon. Can you go back downstairs please? Okay, okay, bye bye.
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Alissa Hessler:I think one thing that we talked about earlier that is particularly timely, is this idea of rural America feeling very closed off and, and scary for non white people. And I wondered if you could talk a little bit about your experience, about wanting to move to a place, what it feels like to kind of suss out a place, things that maybe white people would never even think about when it comes from making a transition from a city to a rural area.
Sherri Powell:That's actually a topic that's heavy on my mind right now, too, because I've, I'm truly trying to encourage more of my peers and friends to think about a transition like this, especially now that so many folks can work remotely. And you know, and especially my friends with kids, I just, I'm really trying to encourage people to consider this. But when I'm doing that, when I'm having those conversations, I'm also incredibly mindful of what that could look like for a person of color for a black person, right? I say all the time that I didn't make this decision lightly, I will say that I feel a bit more comfort and courage because of how I grew up. And so a lot of these spaces are just familiar with me, to me. And so, um, but I never lose sight of how that can feel to someone who didn't grow up the way I did. I know there's a lot of it's it is heavy, right? That just that line of thinking can be incredibly heavy. I mean, for me, it is still so for someone who, you know, doesn't feel as you know, as familiar to a rural area, it's just that time 1000. So I, you know, I was telling a friend the story a few weeks ago, because even though I was born and raised, where I was born and raised, and I still have fears, I mean, I there are times where in this community, you know, we we need a mechanic. And so, you know, things run through my mind before I drove up to a mechanic. I mean, it's just, it's just the reality. And so, you know, my husband being of European descent, sometimes I send him first, right, go make sure that this is a safe space, where I'll be welcomed. Maybe it's exaggerated, I don't know. But I just have to do that, for my own peace of mind. You know, pre pandemic, we come up and it was the same thing for a bar and we want to go have a beer, well, can you go there first and grab something, and then let me know what the vibe The vibe is, before I go. And so it's, um, you know, we have to think about things like that. And so, when I'm talking to my friends about potentially seeking out real estate, and potentially moving here, you know, that's always that's also a part of the conversation. It's, I've been having these conversations over the past eight months, I welcome it, because this is something that also all my life we never talk about, we just don't talk about it. And I just feel like now we owe it to ourselves to be honest about what's real, and what's true. And that is reality. And we need to, if we can't talk about these issues, candidly, now I just don't know when we can. You know, I've been saying to people that if you are a roll progressive, if you're a rolling bass progressive right now, you have got to speak up, you have got to use your platform, no matter how big or how small, like now is the time for you to show people that, that they that they have our allies, right, that they have support, if they move to these areas, like this is the time, we all should be using every opportunity to be vocal about our progressive presence and rule spaces. I mean, we just we just should, there's no I mean, there's just not been a more right time to do that. You know, another thing that I will mention is shortly after the George Floyd situation came to light and you know, the Black Lives movement started to, you know, just become more prominent in June. You know, at one point, I started to sort of rethink yours, really, because I, I just remember at some point, you know, in the middle of the night, just thinking this is kind of wild, because the mission of yours really is to support rolly base brands and organizations and I vet them and I know that their values are, to some degree aligned with mine, but it was just crazy that I was that I felt this fear that the whole premise of the business was to advocate for a population that I suddenly felt very afraid of. Will so worried about posting something on Instagram about the movement on social justice because you You know, I had this fear that if someone in my hometown saw it, would they do something to my family, you know, and it's just, it was just wow. Like I felt so scared of suddenly what I was doing
Alissa Hessler:this year has felt like a great awakening in our nation when it comes to both acknowledging and wanting to dismantle systemic racism. Why do you think that is? Do you think it's just people spending more time at home and paying closer attention?
Sherri Powell:For a while, I just kept trying to understand why it was that all of these black people had been murdered by cops or their fellow citizens based on their race. And I couldn't understand why there never been such a big outcry. That's the answer. I mean, people were just finally paying attention.
Alissa Hessler:It's easy for people to just focus on the things that are going on in their lives. And I mean, it's a cultural thing in the United States, too, right? To say that you're always so busy. That's like a respected word. Oh, so busy right now. And then, and then all of a sudden, to like, strip that away a little bit. And then really pay attention. Yeah, is
Sherri Powell:cool. My gosh, we have, I could talk to you all. It's so funny that you raised the point about folks wearing the label of being busy as a badge of honor, because that's, it's also just something that I've just especially living in DC and then in New York, where people's careers are so important, and how busy they are, and connected, they are so important. And and sometimes I just get a good chuckle about that. And sometimes it gets me into big heated arguments, because I have always said that, you know, there's a narrative around, if you live in New York, you have to be a hustler. And you have to be high, you know, high energies fast paced, and I just never allowed myself to buy into that. I mean, I just didn't. And so I just also just think is dangerous. And it has really caused a lot of arguments amongst people who pride themselves on living in New York City. Three years ago, I had hired someone who moved to New York for the job, they moved from Texas, she was younger and super bright, great, but I could just tell that she brought with her the need to sort of fit that image and stereotype of being, you know, she was she's going to succeed in New York, she needed to have that sort of competitive, you know, go go go never sleep at night type thing. Don't have to do that. And, and that's why I just see a danger. And sort of, I've just always kind of found it funny that in these settings, I've always just been like, well, you know, I'm contrary to my core, all the weekends I get out of here, I try to live slowly, even when I'm here. You know, just because I just a new another perspective of you don't have to, you don't have to be that person to be okay, in New York City or in any city, right?
Alissa Hessler:Honestly, I would say that some of the best leaders, and some of the best people that I worked with are people who are exactly like you who know how to set up those boundaries, how to know how to create space where they can recharge, because otherwise, your burnout rate is so fast. And I mean, honestly, when I moved to Maine, I was burnt, I was so burnt out, I was going a mile a minute. And I really believed that hype. And I really believed that, you know, I my value was what my job title was. And that takes so long to untangle yourself from, if that's the reality that you're living in. And it doesn't have to be that way. I mean, you don't have to just move to the country and completely slow down, you can actually like implement some of these like really good things in your existence to make improve your life that way. If you if you aren't ready for taking that big leap.
Sherri Powell:It's funny, I feel like I'm I am at that place now where you are when you first made your move, or even now when someone says what do you do is still a little tricky. And I think the first seven months or so, just kind of once I knew I was going to make this transition, it would be a situation where and I'm sure you relate to this where I'd say, Oh, I'm starting this company, but but my background is in. I don't have to add that caveat. I don't I don't care. I you know, I mean, some days I don't know. So it's still a struggle. I mean, it's the identity ship is real.
Alissa Hessler:What ways have you been reaching out to people during the pandemic so that you can feel more connected there. So we
Sherri Powell:have actually made some connections at the weekly farmers market. It's just been a great way to meet other families with kids. And so we have that sort of our play date where everyone comes mass and our farmers market is along a river. And so while one parent is shopping and the other can take the kids down by the river to run around, and we gotten a couple of emails from transplants who are interested in pods. So I'm assuming that people are creating those And we will hold off on that until maybe spring. But I know that those are those are in motion as well, you know, it's just funny how things work out timing wise, just to the point that you just made about the business and then been been able to dig in from from a rural location. But also, just everything that happened over the summer, I think two has just been, I mean, the time is just wild, because what we were talking about earlier around the fears of, you know, being either a liberal or progressive, or black, or whatever it is, in a rural area, everything that happened this summer, just exposed so much. It just puts so much out there. And so, you know, we come in here in March, and then all this happening in June, and then I'm been able to go out and be a part of these local rallies and marches. And then meeting people that way, and you already know that you have shared values, because you're at the March, right. So even that has just been, you know, I just I think about that. It just is it just floors me how that all the time, it just all worked out. And so I think that all the unrest, and all of the bad that happened over the summer, I think that people were able to form alliances that way too, and sort of start start to add to their community up here. And that way, you just immediately found like minded people because of the crisis.
Alissa Hessler:About I think that one thing that, that you really understand that maybe new transplants that I have moved from the city because of the pandemic maybe wouldn't, is what it means to you know, really invest in a community to be there for the long haul to not maybe feel like a tourist, what things you can do to really start to feel like, Hey, this is this is actually where I'm settling. I'm not just continuing my city life, but in a rural area.
Sherri Powell:Yeah. And that's, that's actually a very good interesting question. I was just having this conversation with my husband a few nights ago, we were having a conversation about schools. And so, you know, once the pandemic is over, do we, you know, do we dig in, and then we know, this tech will go to school here are, you know, how do we make that all work? Like how do you truly become a part of the community. And I think that goes back to, you know, sort of what yours really is built around, it's really figuring out a way to invest, and home like this is if this is going to be your home, you have to be intentional about investing in that, like you can't sit around and put your child you know, keep her either homeschool him or her or do these pods. With ignoring the fact that there's a public school infrastructure here, you have to, you know, I don't I don't care how you do it. Like if it's just your taxes, if it's just this, just that there are different ways to do it. But you have to be sure that you're you know, you, you know, you're a part of that in some way, somehow saying with no mainstream businesses that this is where you buy your groceries now you don't go back to Brooklyn to Whole Foods, right. And you know, you may pay a bit more, but you have to be committed to doing that. Because this, this, this home is just your responsibility, period. I mean, there's just no other way around it. It's what is the right thing to do, what is what we should all be doing.
Alissa Hessler:Thank you for listening to my interview with Sherry Powell. No, normally, this is a part where we give you an update on how Sherry's doing since we last spoke. Because we recorded this interview in the early days of the pandemic in April. But the news from last week of the insurrection at the capitol is just too big to ignore. And the rise of white supremacy affects all of us, no matter where we live. Sherry was a Senate aide on Capitol Hill. And this attempted coup happened in the offices and hallways where she worked for over 12 years of her career. I knew I had to talk to her about last week's events, and the collective response from politicians, law enforcement, media, and the general public. So I called her up again this week to discuss so first off Sherry, you worked on Capitol Hill for many years as an aide to a Georgian senator, can you tell me how you felt watching this attempted violent coup unfold?
Sherri Powell:I will say that it was a mixture of feeling sad and heartbroken and also pissed and mad and infuriated. It's um, you know, one of the things I have been thinking about though is how I did it feel shock right, I did it. Yeah, it surprised me. And that that's scary because it's one of the most shocking things in the history of our country yet and that moment, I personally felt no shock I just felt like the right hand had been on the wall for so long. So was indeed consumed by just heartbreak, right, just feeling so much empathy for work. The people on the Hill were feeling at that moment the fear how scared they must have been how nervous and worried their families had to have been watching this on TV, the employees on the Hill who don't sign up for this right you're they go to work to serve food to make good food for members and staffers. They don't feel signed up to experience something like this. So the folks in the cafeteria, the janitors, just how they must have been feeling that's that was the thought that was constantly running through my mind. One of the things that has also just been a theme of thinking amongst some of my peers just on when we're group texting and, and having these conversations is really how thankful I think we all feel for the pandemic, which is just an odd thing to say. But thank God for COVID right now, and the fact that there were less people on the Hill when this happened, on any normal day that capitol building would have been filled with teenagers and young kids and senior citizens and join a tour of the Capitol and enjoying their being in the people's house. Right. And, and so I just is just so just, thank God, we are quarantined in it. And we're so isolated, and we're at home, and staffers were serving probably at half, seven, a half capacity because of the pandemic, because I think this could have been a lot worse otherwise. So I know the folks that I know who were there, or I think also just feel enraged, right? People are just angry, I think more than anything sad for sure. But just angry that a group of people can do this, and also can potentially get away with it. Right? There's only been a couple of arrests. How is this possible?
Alissa Hessler:The response to it has been particularly shocking and telling, I've been really struck by the radio silence in social media, especially after June with all of these black squares and showing of solidarity. Why do you think it's really important right now, that white people who do not believe in white supremacy continuing to be the norm speak up?
Sherri Powell:You know that this topic is almost, it's almost overwhelming to talk about it? Because it's, again, just just the level of infuriation and disappointment? And frankly, embarrassment? Because I think so many people are embarrassing themselves in this moment by failing to step up and speak up. I you know, back in June, and over the summer, I felt like so many of us were saying that, if this is not the moment that you speak up, I don't know when is, and yet, here we are, again, sand the exact same thing. So what does it take? What does it take for people to feel pool to use their platform for good to make a statement for what's right, what does it take? If this doesn't do it? Unless I just don't know where we go from here? I just don't I just, I it's just a deflating feeling to see how people are failing to use their voice right now.
Alissa Hessler:And what would you say to people who, you know, maybe they don't have a lot of followers, or they feel powerless to actually create real change, and they're tired. And you know, I get those things like the pandemic is, has been brutal, and people are out of work, or they just feel like they don't have the emotional energy. What would you say to those people?
Sherri Powell:I say that I truly believe that it doesn't matter how large or how small your following is. it at this point, your silence is a complete and total indication of being complicit. There's just no way around it. Hey, listen, here's the thing. If you as a mom, I can say this. If you can post a beautiful photo of your child playing in the snow, you can post a photo of a text that says I condemn racism, I can deal with white supremacy, it's not that hard. You don't have to engage in the conversations. You don't have to if you don't want to engage in the comments, that's fine. Just saying something. Just saying something. Because people been silent over the past four years is exactly why last Wednesday happened. You know, it's easy for us to say, well, the Republican members of the Senate let so much slide for four years, the Republican members of the House, were silent for four years. But it's also we hold ourselves responsible to we have a part to play in this as well. It's not just elected officials, it's us as mere citizens. It's us as community leaders, it's us as parents, right? It's all of us, no matter where you sit in this society, you have a voice. And so yes, let's hold our electeds accountable, but let's hold ourselves accountable.
Alissa Hessler:And what would you say to people who are like, alright, I hear you and I'm going to, I'm going to be courageous, and I'm going to be brave and I'm going to speak out against these things. What are some things that they can do? I mean, obviously, call your congress people call your senators, what are some other things that you would that you would recommend that they invest their time and energy into?
Sherri Powell:I think in addition to calling your representatives and your Senators all Just as simple as saying something, whether that's on social media, whether that's at dinner time when your family is sitting around the table, whether that's when you're zooming with your grandma and your grandpa who may be struggling with how they feel about this, and who may very well be on the wrong side of history, you know, use that time to diplomatically speak up and say something and make your own views known. There's also so many organizations doing impactful work, as related to racial justice throughout this country. Just learn, figure out how to get involved, donate, donate your time, donate your money, I have to say that we're in the process of organizing and getting ready to launch a national initiative next week, I can't wait to share more in the coming days. But that will be a great opportunity for, for people to to join this movement, dig in, and let's collectively figure out how to move forward for better. But, you know, I know that organizations too, we have to make it simple for people to get involved, make it easy, because people are busy. That's just the reality. But again, I feel like at this moment in history, in this moment in time in this country, we have to be uncomfortable, and we might have to be tired for a little while, we might have to just sacrifice a little bit of sleep, sacrifice a little bit of money and try to make a difference. Because you know, this won't be easy, and you can't expect it to be easy. You just have to commit and do the work. You and
Alissa Hessler:I both are based in rural America. And obviously, a lot of the audience of this podcast and the website are rural Americans. What would you say specifically to rural Americans who feel like, gosh, I just I don't? I don't want rural America to be represented in this way. What would you say to them on actions that they need to be taking right now to? To speak out against this?
Sherri Powell:I would say the first thing we as rural Americans need to do Alissa is be really be honest, really be honest with ourselves with our neighbors. Know, it's easy for us to say this is not who we are. But is this who we are? I mean, we really have to have a real conversation about that. Is this who our neighbors are? Is this who our community citizens are like, Is this is this who we are because, you know, it's hard to talk about this. But some of this is because of what rule communities are created and allow it to happen. And, you know, I think our first start is to is to really be okay with having hard, candid conversations full of candor, because you know, I've said this over and over. But the rule narrative has been hijacked in so many ways. By the media, no, by by individuals, by politicians. It's easy for someone who's not rule to say that, you know, this is what rule America is full of is wrong, but it's easy. It's easy to understand why that stereotype exists. And I think if we start to have conversations that are truth, the full truth about it, we're not going to make progress. So I think we have to be willing to, to have have the conversations, we need to figure out ways to hold people accountable. You know, I don't know if calling people out for what they're doing is the right way. But I also feel like not doing that is also wrong. So it's, you know, just really figuring out how to just bring things to surface and bring things to light without being worried about, you know, hurting people's feelings. Because unless you want this to be the perception of your demographic, you're gonna have to dig deep, and make some changes, right and do some hard stuff.
Alissa Hessler:I think that one thing that I just recently did, which felt like a revelation, but it wasn't, really wasn't, I just stopped following people who were trying to sell me stuff that weren't talking about this, that weren't being honest. If they're trying to sell me things online, and they aren't calling this out for what it is, then I'm done. That's just like one simple thing that people can do if they just feel like what do I do? How do I do this? And if those people are being sponsored by brands that you buy from contact those brands and say, Hey, this influencer that you're working with is not representing your demographic of people, your customers, and maybe you need to rethink that conversation.
Sherri Powell:I cannot cannot agree more. I I did something similar back in June, and I have not looked back. I don't I just you know, I know you and I've spoken about about this in the past. But you know, not only is it important how we spend our money, but it's also important how we spend our time and where we direct our energy. And so when I'm going through my feed, I just don't need to see I don't need To see the fake the phony, the ones who are failing to be an ally right now, the ones who are failing to show courage right now the ones who are being cowards. I had my there's so many other things I'd rather focus my energy on. And so good riddance, you know, it's simple. It's Who do you want to walk through this world with when things are good? And when things are bad? It's just like marriage, right? I mean, it really is, it's who's going to be there for you and with you during the struggle? And those who are not, what's the point? Why stick around?
Alissa Hessler:What response to you would be the right response for moving forward through this.
Sherri Powell:So I know, in addition to individuals, just really realizing the full power that they have, and how powerful their voices how powerful one statement can be just as a mere individual walk them through this world. I think that's I think that is important. And that's a responsibility we all hold to understand. But I also think that there is going to be a, collectively, we have to also figure out a way to use our power as a collective, like people who are really trying to move forward in this country to make things better, we have to figure out how we do that. Collectively, there's, um, you know, there's so many different agenda, so many priorities in different organizations. But how do we use that power to really, really not forget this day, right? Don't forget this. And May, June, July, we can't we have to, we have to keep the energy, we have to keep focused on the goal of making things better, and preventing violence from getting worse. So how do we how do we be sure to collectively use the energy keep up the momentum, and really impact it makes him change?
Alissa Hessler:Cherry, I have to say that. And maybe this, maybe this will be inspiring to other people as well, I, I have never really been silent about these things in my personal life. But it really took just like this last year, to realize that I actually had a voice and that I did have power, and that I needed to say these things out loud. And all that I have gained from it has been positive. And I want other people to know that that's what you can have, you can have positive and you can feel like you're you're promoting change. And even if you're a tired mom, which is what I am a tired mom, small business owner, like, I feel like I actually can do things to work towards a better future for all. And I just want other people to know that they have that same power. And I honestly think that you are a part of giving me that power. And so I really wanted to speak to you today, so that you could share that I mean, share that energy to make people feel courageous. And to make them feel like you can do this, it isn't hard. And once you do it, you're going to feel so good that you're going to want to keep doing it. And you're going to stay the course because this is the right side of history. This is what has needed to happen for over 400 years. Like let's do it now. Let's not wait any longer, or white supremacy will just continue to pop up and rear its ugly head over and over and over. And we'll never put this to bed.
Sherri Powell:That that that's exactly right. And, and I would just add on to that, too. It's a matter of, you know, just really, in your quiet moments, think about what is it that you're gaining from being silent? How is that? How does your silence feel right? Like how does that help you what what good is coming from that? And especially to parents, I just I you know, if for nothing else, speak up and stand up and act for the sake of your kids in the future that they're going to inherit. And that sounds a little cliche, but it's so true. It's if for nothing else, do it to model what's right for your kids, and do it to ensure that they grow up in a safe country where people respect differences. That's it. It's not it's not complicated. And no one's saying that you need to. After a long day of work and parenting and cleaning and cooking and doing the dishes no one is saying that you need to sit down at your dinner table and write a long letter to your Senator or your member of Congress. No one's saying that you need to donate 1000s and 1000s of dollars There's no one saying that you have to travel somewhere to march. But just speak up. It's really, really that simple. Now, if you have the resources, I think to get involved financially, then by all means, I think that that's powerful. And that should be done as well. But again, the sacrifice doesn't have to be that big. You don't we all have a role to play. And I to your point, I'll say to that, this may be shocking, but as a black woman, a proud rulest even I until up in this up and up until this past year, even I I just, you know, I didn't use my mean, not that I'm by no means a social media influencer, I have a large following. And I just but you know, even on my social platforms, I never felt compelled to put my views out publicly or, you know, engage in dialogue around these issues. And I, you know, me for whatever reason, I just never, I just didn't. And so, I mean, even in personal conversations with friends and family, I just, you know, that was just I never felt compelled to, to be involved, not necessarily be involved, but lead those conversations. But, again, this is this is just all too important to be quiet.
Alissa Hessler:Yeah, we find ourselves at a point in history, where we are given no other option than to choose a side, the side of good is obvious.
Sherri Powell:You're exactly right, just now is not the time to straddle the fence. That's it, you are absolutely right, could not agree more. And again, when you're doing that, just, you know, just really go inside and do some inner reflecting and understand if you are choosing to do that, why? Why the Be honest, why is it because you don't want to lose followers? Is it because you think people won't buy your product? No, is it because you're afraid people are going to verbally attack you online? What are you afraid of? Because I can guarantee you that the consequences that you're thinking might happen? pale in comparison to what people are violently feeling when they're attacked on the streets, when they're shot by cops, when they're potentially murdered doing their job on Capitol Hill, right? So you're not a victim, you are not a victim right now. And so speak up
Alissa Hessler:being tired and like feeling like you don't have the emotional energy for something that isn't an excuse. Because you have the choice to do that. And that is a privilege. And you have to use that privilege for good if you want the world to be a better place. That's right.
Sherri Powell:Exactly. Right. Oh, thank
Alissa Hessler:you, Sherry, I hope that this conversation helps inspire people to feel more courageous, and to really understand the weight of what happened. I think that maybe, you know, this has been an extremely difficult time. And people are just putting their head down and trying to get through. But I want people to know just how important it is right now. To come together and say that this is not right, this will not stand
Sherri Powell:another thing that I will just add that I am I did this was this was this happen a bit in June through the summer. And it's a little bit now over the past couple of days. But you know, I'm, I tell people, if you want to email me, if you want to jump on a zoom, if you want to have a call to talk somebody something out, you know, if you're a mom who's, you know, juggling, working and parenthood is still figuring out ways to be involved and make a difference and in just really just show up, just DM us, right? Just it's not, you know, just this is this is not, there's no hostility here, just less have conversation. So DM us, you know, happy to, again, get on a call, talk it out, type it out, whatever it is we can, we can figure this out together if people are truly wanting to do what's right, but don't know how we don't be afraid to ask. Just, you know, I know there's a lot of chatter around the you know, the truth around the fact that people are, you know, we don't exist to be teachers and, you know, we're tired and etc. And I agree with that, and I understand that sentiment. But at the same time if there are people who truly want to dig in and be of help, but don't know how, just ask no when I'm willing to and I know there are many others who are willing to you know, just just be there to talk it out. And
Alissa Hessler:I mean, I'm there you don't have to that emotional labor, labor, if anyone wants to talk it out and wants to ask how they can be brave in this time you send me a direct message on Instagram, and I will empower you to make those moves in your life. And I promise that you're going to feel so much better. That this is real mean, this is the real person that you're going to get, I don't feel like I'm living a lie, or I'm putting any of these things on. And that's a weight that you carry, if you if you can't be your full, true self. And eventually, people are gonna find out one way or the
Sherri Powell:other. And also, I mean, this sounds a little bit, you know, this sounds more celebratory than then maybe it should. But why would you not want to be a part of change it to your point, it feels good, you're, it feels good. And I mean, it's just your to be a part of something bigger than yourself bigger than your own family, bigger than your own day to day responsibilities and exhaustion, it feels good to be a part of something just like high school, when you're a part of a club, or you're playing a sport, right? It's been a part of a team, who's going to do the right thing.
Alissa Hessler:Well, and if you want to see inspiring people doing good things, then like, seek those people out because they exist online. And if you aren't following those people, remove all of your followers of people who aren't in that category, and find those people because my feed is just the most incredible, inspiring, uplifting people that make me feel like I can continue to make me feel courageous and continue to make me feel like there's good in this world, and that we're going to be moving forward through this nightmare. And so I just encourage everybody to find those people. Because it'll make you feel a heck of a lot better right now. Because it is hard. The weight of everything. It's just it feels crushing. Yeah, that's right.
Sherri Powell:And that I would just add to that, that new community that you seek out and embrace, they'll buy your products to trust me. Don't worry about people not buying your stuff, because I, I, you know, maybe, you know, maybe that's the reason. I mean, maybe that's, um, that's just giving people the benefit of the doubt is that they're worried about the consumer power that their followers have. But you know, I'd rather have, I just rather have good people buy in and support in my business and people who are just not not up to par with where we're going forward in this country. Just it's just that simple.
Alissa Hessler:Well, Sherry, I know that you are getting an organization off the ground right now, you're still running your small business, you have a three year old at home, I'm not going to take any more of your time. But I felt like it was really important to have this conversation. You have just been such a guiding light to me this last year and an inspiration. And I hope that people listen to your words and feel as inspired as I have felt by you, and your power, and know that they have that power to. So thank you so much.
Sherri Powell:Thank you. And likewise, thank you for everything that you do, not only for me, but for so many of us. And I think that this is this is just the beginning.
Alissa Hessler:Thank you for joining us for my conversation with Sherry Powell. To learn more about yours rurally and peruse our beautiful collection of rurally based gift boxes, visit yours early.com or on social media at yours rurally. This was the last episode of our first season of the urban Exodus podcast. We will be launching an exclusive bonus episode to our Patreon supporters next Saturday. In our bonus episode, we'll be speaking with Luisa Conrad a big picture farm. Louis says a native New Yorker who left city life to build a goat milk confectionary business with her partner Lucas in the mountains of Vermont. We talk about their journey into farming and building a diversified farm based business through value added products and agro tourism. It's an informative and inspiring conversation. And I hope you'll tune in find us on Instagram and Facebook at the Urban Exodus. To read more in depth features on folks who ditch the city and went country. Visit our website urban exodus.com An enormous thank you to my whole team who made this season possible production by Simone Leon editing by Ari Snyder and music by Benjamin birtherism. I really couldn't have done it without you guys. Thank you so much. I'm Alissa Hessler, and this is the urban Exodus. Stay kind, stay joyful. stay resilient