Come along with Bishop Sankey, the former NFL and University of Washington star running back, as he discusses his upbringing in a military household, the significance of nurturing one's dreams, his experiences during his tenure at the University of Washington, his selection by the Tennessee Titans in the 2014 NFL draft, his journey into law school, and a plethora of other intriguing stories. Today, Bishop is a student at the University of Tennessee College of Law in Knoxville.
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Come along with Bishop Sankey, the former NFL and University of Washington star running back, as he discusses his upbringing in a military household, the significance of nurturing one's dreams, his experiences during his tenure at the University of Washington, his selection by the Tennessee Titans in the 2014 NFL draft, his journey into law school, and a plethora of other intriguing stories. Today, Bishop is a student at the University of Tennessee College of Law in Knoxville.
Want to hear more? Check out previous episodes, subscribe & leave a review.
APPLE PODCASTS: https://apple.co/32M5E2T
SPOTIFY: https://spoti.fi/32AyXFq
Connect with Collin:
TWITTER: https://twitter.com/CollinKushner
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/collinkushner/
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/CollnKushner
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/collin-ku...
PERSONAL WEBSITE: https://linktr.ee/collinkushner
EMAIL: ckushner1@gmail.com
As I'm learning and discovering new things about myself, I'm looking for new ways to give back to younger athletes, whether it be with sports stuff, academic stuff, approaching an athlete as a whole person, and looking at their like journey holistically. I think that's something that I've aimed to do and strive to do going forward.
Collin Kushner:Welcome back everybody, to another exciting episode of the Hayward You Go podcast. I'm your host Colin Kushner, and we have another epic guest, former University of Washington running back and former N F L running back, Bishop Sankey . Bishop, what's going on, man?
Bishop Sankey:What's going on? Colin ? Appreciate you for having me on.
Collin Kushner:You were born in Wadsworth, Ohio. You spent some time there with your mom and grandparents, and then you ended up moving to the West coast to Washington state where your dad's in the Air Force. Can you kind of talk about what it was like growing up in that Air Force environment and how it's kind of shaped you today?
Bishop Sankey:Not only my dad, but pretty much like both of my uncles and my grandfather served some time in the military. My dad was 20 years in the Air Force. Both my uncles were 20 years in the army. And um, I think it's shaped me. It's , you know, it's just taught me a lot about just like discipline and hard work, and that work ethic was really instilled in me at a young age. You know, my dad also coached little league football when I was growing up, so that's who really introduced me to like the game of football. And , um, he's still coaching to this day. He is a high school coach , um, in Nashville. So , um, you know, he's just done a great job of like instilling like hard work and dedication and just trying to always maintain that competitive age .
Collin Kushner:How was your dad as a football coach? Obviously with that background in the military, I I I I can only imagine what that was like for you as, as a little kid. You know, you know, growing up
Bishop Sankey:He was just there to guide me and make sure and hold me accountable and make sure that, you know, I was, you know, working hard to, because I, I had dreams of being a pro athlete since I was a little kid, you know, playing division one college ball was another big dream of mine. And so he knew this is what I wanted to do, and he just was like, all right, well this is, this is how you get there, you know, you gotta work hard and do the extra, do like one thing extra per day that's gonna get you closer to your dream. And so that's something that I did like as a kid , um, growing up.
Collin Kushner:Yeah , I was gonna say, as a little kid, you know, growing up with those dreams and those aspirations, like how imperative was it to kind of hold that in the back of your mind along that journey? Did it kind of help and make things a little bit easy for you knowing as you're sprinting up those hills and as you're doing those challenging workouts, like, hey, like this is ultimately literally and figuratively going to get me where I would like to go.
Bishop Sankey:Visualization is a big thing, you know, not only as an athlete, but in really anything, you know, it's important to like dream big. That's something I always wanted to do was just dream big and like shoot for the stars. I had this whole shoot for the stars mentality, and if you miss that, you'll land upon, you know, land amongst the clouds. And I tried to take that approach like during, while I was training and while I played little league in high school and co college, you know, always keeping the big picture in mind, but sort of backtracking and realizing like, what steps do I need to take in order to achieve that dream or achieve that goal? And so, yeah, when I was working, like working out running Hills, doing extra stuff outside of normal like team activities, I would always just think about like my goal, my end goal, my dream, and I would kind of just allow my dreams to like drive me in that way.
Collin Kushner:I love that man. I think it's important for all of us to, to be dreamers, you know, in , in some respect. I think that's, at least from my perspective, I'm, I'm a, I'm a fellow dreamer as well with lots with, with, you know, lots of dreams and aspirations and still to this day, but I think those have helped I think no matter how things ended up turning out for whatever it was that I was striving for. I think having that type of mentality really helped me remain positive. I guess I , I , I don't know, it , it helped even if I, even if I maybe missed a little bit.
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, no, I agree. I think just remaining optimistic about the possibilities is important. You know, obviously, you know, life happens, you know, adversity happens, but if you can look back on your experiences and really try to focus on the good of that came out of those experiences regardless of how they went, I think that's gonna help , um, give you like that energy and give you that , um, resiliency to just move forward and, and bounce back and go into whatever endeavor you have next or go into that next thing that you're working towards . So , uh, yeah, I think just remaining Optim optimistic about the possibilities and being , um, persistent in the face of adversity is something that I've always tried to remind myself of and stay true to.
Collin Kushner:Who instilled that shoot for the stars mentality? Was that your mom, your dad, a , a friend, a , a coach, a an extended family member, or, or maybe was that something that you just discovered on your own?
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, I think it was just like a combination like my dad, mom , uh, family members, you know, they really do say it takes a village and I think, you know, just different like family members , um, through the years, I've just looked at their example, you know, I , I looked at my grandfather as an example on both sides, but on my dad's side, my grandfather, he's pretty much blind in both eyes and just , um, he's, he's been that way for a while . He is , had like cornea transplants and multiple procedures on his eyes to try to revive his eyesight and just looking, knowing like what he's gone through and , um, struggles he's faced and how he remains positive and he gets up every day and walks , uh, in his purpose or , um, what he believes his purpose is to be, you know, that's just something that I use as like motivation and I see like how he, you know, fights every day to , to , um, you know, do things even with his, you know, eyesight and his condition. So , um, just stuff like that. And then also coaches too, you know, like my high school coach who was a great mentor of mine , uh, I went to high school at Gonzaga Prep High School in Spokane. And Coach McKenna, you know, he is one of the more successful coaches in the state of Washington. I think he , he won the , they won the state not too long ago. And, you know, they're always like playoff contenders and he's just always expressed like, you know, he had like three words he would say, or four, I don't know how many, but he was like, he would always say like, adversity, you know, how do you respond? And while that's just like a simple message and it's easy to kind of gloss over, those words are just really like, couldn't be more true. It's like adversity happens, but ultimately it's not what happens, it's how you respond to what happens. And so those are just things that have always kind of stuck with me through the years and just messages from coaches, you know, people who have, you know, communicated positive messages to me. Like I've always kind of just , um, held onto those things and just try to remind me of those, of those voices and those people who have had that influence on me.
Collin Kushner:Well, your high school football coach, David McKenna, he described you as quiet, humble, the hardest working kid he's ever been around. Um, why was it so important to conduct yourself in , in that manner and how important are these characteristics just for athletes in general?
Bishop Sankey:It just goes back to just that dream I had as a little kid. You know, I grew up watching like Ohio State and, you know, Miami and like the early two thousands with like Willis McGee and, you know, Maurice Clare and Craig k Crile and Craig Renzel . And then as I grow older, I remember , um, when I moved out west, I really started focusing on like Pac 12, like University of Washington wazo , the Apple Cup , and of course like Reggie Bush too, like before that as well. But , um, just like my, I guess my imagination is something that, you know, has played a big role in that. And just , um, like I said, just envisioning the end goal and just thinking about the possibilities and listening to coaches and just trying to take what they said to heart and really try to like work hard and, and go the extra mile. And I think through time I saw like how my hard work was paying off and I saw that I actually had potential and I could, you know, really could potentially play division one football. So I just tried to keep that same mentality through high school. Um, and you know, Gonzaga Prep, it's a pretty like, challenging high school. When I first moved out to Washington from Ohio , um, I could remember like Gonzaga Prep was like, no , they're , um, they, they're a private high school and they like really pride themselves on academics and like where I like the school that I, the middle school that I came from previously before going to high school in Washington. Um, it just was a challenge for me to make that transition in such a, an environment that like is like demand so much academically from their students. But I think it just helped me pay off or it just paid off in the long run for me. 'cause like, I was never really the like smartest or like the biggest or the most like, or the fastest or just naturally talented. So I think being put in those environments that like force you to grow and challenge you, I think that's kind of just wired me a certain way to not be afraid to get out of my comfort zone and continue to push and, and , uh, strive to be better going forward.
Collin Kushner:When you knew in your mind, body and soul that you had a future playing D one football and , and the N F L possibly coming immediately after, like what did that feel like, given that this was a dream that you had since you were a kid? Can you kind of describe , is there a way to describe that feeling?
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, I mean it's, it's a great feeling. Um, you know, just seeing your dreams materialize, you know, you work so hard and just to see like , um, evidence that, you know, you're actually making progress and getting closer to your goals and stuff, I think it was just, it meant it was just important and it meant a lot for me and it was just something that was just a dream come true, really. Um, I remember going in at the University of Washington , um, I was like fourth, fourth string. Like, I, I didn't start off , um, you know, going to the University of Wa , university of Washington expecting to be a starter. Um, I really, there were other schools I could have went to where I had a better chance to play early. But , um, you know, I think just , uh, things worked out. When I went to the University of Washington, I really fell in love with the campus. I fell in love with the coaching staff and everything and I just, it just felt right when I visited. And so , um, I think, yeah, you know, a big part of just , uh, I guess reaching your goals is just betting on yourself and taking a chance on yourself regardless of how things look.
Collin Kushner:It's nice that things started, just started to just click and fall into place. 'cause I think a , a majority of the things that we do in life, there's always maybe a little bit of, of a fight, you know, or, or , and it doesn't always, it's not like an easy soft landing. It's , it's nice to hear that your decision to go the to the University of Washington, it just, it just felt right and you could just go with that feeling and move on instead of, wait, did it feel right? Did it not feel right? And then you, there starts that, that inner monologue of, of questioning decisions that , that you make.
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, I think like it was one of those, I guess rare times or special times in my life where everything kind of did like work together and everything kind of worked out. 'cause like it takes a lot. It's, you know, just to have the opportunity to play in the N F L , you know, so many things have to go right. Um, you know, not only as a player do you have to be a good player, but you also have to, you know , play for a coaching staff who trusts you and believes in you and trust you, you enough to put you on the field and give you an opportunity. And then you also have to remain injury free and, you know, just be in the right, you know, system and environment. And I feel like so many other factors sort of play together , um, that, you know, that enable success. And so at that time at Washington, like everything just kind of worked together and things. I I was healthy for those, you know, three years I didn't, you know, face any serious injuries. And my coaching staff, they trusted me enough to put me on the field. So I just, you know , everything kind of like worked out in that sense. So I'm , I'm definitely thankful for it to this day. 'cause without my experience at UDub , you know, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have had an opportunity to play in , in the N F L and then , you know, do what I'm doing now. So
Collin Kushner:In 2013, your junior season at the University of Washington, you rushed for 1,870 yards, which is still a school record in 20 rushing touchdowns. What made that season so special for you?
Bishop Sankey:Really? I just think a combination, again, of things like , um, I , I was coming off a strong sophomore season, so my confidence level was higher than it was the previous year. Um, I was, you know , what you would call battle tested as a player. So I , you know, I had been in tough games, I had faced tough defenses. I had that game in-game experience that I didn't have the previous year. So I think I was able to build off of that. Um, also , uh, coach Sarkisian, who's our offensive coordinator that year, and um, he's, you know, been an innovative offensive mind for years. And so he , um, you know, at that time I think uptempo offenses were just now coming to the forefront, you know, of course, like Chip Kelly ran the uptempo offense at, at Oregon back then around that time. And then I think SART kind of took a page from his book and implemented that at the University of Washington. And that just helped a lot because just based on that offense and how things are run, like if the defensive line or linebackers fit the wrong gap, or they're found like out of position, like literally that just opens the lanes up for just big runs, big plays . And so I think that was just that and just my mindset and confidence that the player really , uh, you know, attributed to that my junior season and just all the success that, that came with it.
Collin Kushner:After your career at Washington, you ended up declaring for the N F L draft after your junior season, and you were drafted by the Tennessee Titans in the second round of the 2014 N F L draft, the first running back taken in that draft. Can you kind of describe that moment, that feeling like, I don't know if you, if you closed your eyes for a second, if you can kind of bring us back to that moment in time?
Bishop Sankey:It didn't feel real, like, it just felt like , um, all the years of preparation and that moment was here where you get, you know, get drafted and you're lucky enough to get your name called, you know, during the draft. And I was just at my dad's house and I had family out and uh , everybody was just having a good time and I was celebrating with family and, and , uh, yeah, we, you know, I just remember getting on the phone and just thinking about like what was next and trying to anticipate like, you know, what it would be like moving to a new city, playing, starting with a new team, getting your start in the N F L . And so there were just so many thoughts, I guess, racing through my mind at the time. But it was just a good moment, a special moment, and uh, yeah, it was just like that was the day, like where my, you know, dreams came through . So I was just excited for that.
Collin Kushner:The Titans had Chris Johnson, they released him shortly before they drafted you. Um, was there any pressure on your end to , to fill shoes like that? Because Johnson rushed for more than 2000 yards. I think it was in 2009, then they , did you feel pressure on that end or was that something that didn't even cross your mind?
Bishop Sankey:Um, I think it's hard to just ignore like all the noise and like, you know, knowing that you're gonna be the , um, suce what successor of like Chris Johnson and , uh, you know, he was just obviously one of the best running backs in the N F L at the time. So I did feel a lot of , you know, pressure coming in and , um, not just pressure from like the external noise, but just from internally myself, you know, wanting to do a good job and wanting to, you know, pick up the plays and just get acclimated to a new system. And so I definitely felt pressure, you know, as a young rookie. And um , you know, that's, that was one of my main things, like when I first moved to Nashville, was just trying to pick up the playbook as quickly as possible and , um, get used to the new system that I was playing in.
Collin Kushner:How are you able to temper those expectations? 'cause I think the , the noise on the outside, of course, like that's what everyone sees. That's what everyone hears, the internal noise, you know, what's in our own mind, you know, that's unique to us, you know, and that's almost like , uh, it's , it's just something that we hear. Like how, how were you able to kind of work through that internal noise or just, and , and I don't just mean that playing in the N F L just in a general sense throughout your life.
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, well, I think , um, norm , I mean, I feel like I'm normally pretty good at that, at working through like that I guess work focusing or working through that internal , internal pressure and noise. But , um, during that time, that was just kind of like a challenging time, you know, of just a rollercoaster of a season, my rookie year and then second year as well. 'cause you know, our coach was fired and everything and just , um, we weren't the best team. We were , I think we won two games my rookie year, and then my second year we won four games. And a lot of that time we were like rotating running backs. We had like a running back bike committee, and so we were rotating quite a few guys. And so it was just hard to really kind of gain that same confidence that I had as a player in college , um, with just like, you know, 'cause I, I wanna say sometimes the running back who had the most touches in a game would only really have maybe like five or six touches. And that's because we like would rotate so many guys throughout the span of a game. And then by like halftime, unfortunately, like we would be in situations where we were like forced to throw the ball more so than run the ball. So I think just , um, working through those, that internal noise was a challenge. Um , my rookie year and my like rookie year and second year in the league , um, just because things weren't going, how they were, you know, expected I guess on the field. So , um, but normally I guess in a big, in the big picture, like I've always tried to be one to like think positive and remain optimistic and , um, continue to move forward, you know, like, and just try to use your past experiences to build off of and just, you know, just do things like everyday things like just words of affirmation, like, you know, speak positive, positive self-talk, you know, stuff like that. And so that's kind of what I focused on , uh, throughout my college career when things were going great. And then professional career when things were like a little more rocky or just more of a, I guess a role uncertainty , um, as to how things would, would turn out. So yeah,
Collin Kushner:I think those little things like affirmations or journaling or meditation, I think those are all so important. And it's not just doing it when things are good. I, my, my counselor and I chat about it all the time, and it , it's not only about like when things are good, but when things aren't good, continuing to do those things, whether it be the affirmations of journaling or meditation , um, you know, to, to keep that like consistency level and to kind of maybe mitigate those moments , um, of turmoil, I guess would probably be , would probably be the best, the best way to describe it on, on, on my end. I, I do want to, you know, kind of touch on something you mentioned earlier. You said that your high school coach, David McKenna over at Gonzaga Prep, he talked about adversity and, and how you, how you handle adversity and you know, in the N F L , you definitely had your share of that. After, after two years you were cut by the titans. How did you handle the adversity and how'd you push through that?
Bishop Sankey:Um, I just, you know, again, just tried to move forward and keep, I guess look focusing on the positive. You know, like even though things were happening, like getting released, that's never good. That never feels good, you know, getting cut, it sucks, but it's like, okay, now what can I do next? You know, don't let what you can't can no longer do affect what you can do. Like, you know, I think bad things that happen , you know, it's , they're in the past, you know, like how do you move forward and how do you try to look for new opportunities and, and stuff. And so when I got released, you know, from the Titans , um, you know, that wasn't the first time I was cut , uh, or that wasn't the last time I would've was cut. So , um, for me it was just like I called my agent up and, you know, wanted to just hear about like the options and what's, that's kinda what you do. Like you just call your agent and hope for the best. And so through this whole time I was just like continuing to train and stay ready , um, in case I got a call. And so I ended up bouncing around my third year, played with , um, the Patriots, briefly, the Kansas City Chiefs, and then , um, the Minnesota Vikings. Then I, I did, I ended the year, my third season with the Vikings and then was called back my fourth year. Um, and played with the Vikings as well. And so I , uh, you know , I ended up tearing my a c l that fourth preseason, which wasn't, that was just bad timing is also, but I think , um, yeah, I just try to always think about like, what could I be doing despite the circumstances to get better and improve my , uh, you know, for down the line for the future.
Collin Kushner:I don't know if you have an answer to this, but you know, the Titans only gave you two years. And when I think about just sports in general, giving somebody two years to understand a system, to deal with coaching staff, coaching staff changes, player personnel, changes like that, that's not, that's not a lot of time. The short leashes that , that you have in pro sports are it , it's crazy man. 'cause like two years is not enough time , there's not enough time for my, for my p o v . Like what , what , like what are your thoughts on that?
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, I think that's just kind of the culture in sports. You know, they want production instantly, you know, in a lot of sense or a lot of , um, times. Like they want guys to come in and just be, you know, remarkable, you know, from the bat off the bat. And , um, that's kind of just how it is with, you know, in sports. I think with the Titans, they wanted to just give me a chance maybe somewhere else, you know, even though it didn't work out with them , they were probably thinking like, Hey, you know, he'll get another chance somewhere else and , um, you know, be able to make the best out of it , um, you know, somewhere else. So I think that's kind of just what their thought process process was at the time. But going into my third, my third preseason, I felt like I had a really good, you know, preseason. But of course they , you know, they drafted Derrick Henry who's like one of the best running backs in the league now. And then they brought in DeMarco Murray who was like pro pro bowler at the time. So it was just a full running back room. And I was also kind of dealing with like, you know, little injuries. I had like a , um, like a high ankle sprain , uh, during my third preseason that I've suffered the last , uh, preseason game that year. And looking back, I probably should have like brought more attention to it, but I kind of saw the writing on the wall and I felt like if I would've like , um, you know, spoke up about it or said, you know, brought more attention to it, that that could affect like my potential opportunities down the line with other teams. Looking back, I probably should have said something and then would've had to, you know, get it x-rayed and stuff. But I was just like , oh , I'll tough it out, you know, I'll , I'll deal with it, it'll get better through my whole third year. So , um, really my whole third year I was just like battling this high ankle sprain that I kind of swept under the rug. And then going into my fourth year, my ankle started, started to finally started feeling better. And um, you know , I had a good preseason with the Vikings was doing well. I had a legitimate chance to make the roster my fourth year. Um, but you know, they drafted , um, Dalvin Cook, they brought in Latus Murray and Derek McKinnon was there who's, I think he's still playing. So that was another full room . So I had a , I had a , but I had a legitimate chance to make the roster 'cause they did keep a fourth back that year, you know, even though I was on ir, they brought another guy in who was like on the roster that year. So , um, but unfortunately my tore my a C L that year and it was just, you know, bad timing. So for me, like after that happened, I just wanted to, you know, my biggest thing was working to heal up and come back from the a c l tear , but then also like try to figure out like what , um, think about like, you know, what I want to go into after football ends. Because at that point in time I wasn't sure of like what my future in football looked like, just given how things had gone up to that point. And I know like running back shelf life isn't long, you know, it's like one of the , um, you know, most devalued positions in the league. And so I just think that's just, we, we see what's going on now with running backs . So , uh, you know, and those are like guys that are, you know, super productive, you know, main, you know, main, main guys on the offense. So I just think that's , uh, at that time knowing that like how, how running backs were viewed . I just tried to figure out ways to set myself up for, I guess, life after football or start working towards that now. So when the time did come to actually transition completely, it would be like as easy as possible.
Collin Kushner:Did you have any idea of what you wanted to , what you wanted to do post-football? Like, did you know, like, hey, like I want to be a lawyer or <laugh> ?
Bishop Sankey:No , I mean, I just, I knew, I knew I wanted to, I knew I wanted to work in sports, you know, I wanted to work in sports like management or sports administration. And , um, somebody like dropped a seed , um, in my head at uni at the University of Washington , um, about law school. Like, they were like, oh, have you thought about law school? 'cause they were in the , they were, you know, studying for the LSAT at the time and they were like, well, you, you know, you write good papers, you know, you like reading, you don't mind reading and stuff like that. So have you ever thought about law school? Like if I'm like, you know, so that's really the first time the seed was dropped in my head about like potentially going to law school. But I knew a law degree would just provide like versatility and provide you with different options and the skill sets and knowledge to work in really any sector. And definitely in sports because you know, like I think , um, you can do so much. Like you learn about contracts, you learn about like regulatory issues, you learn just , uh, I mean I just , I just think like law school can , uh, provide versatility in the job market. So that's kind of something that was like in the back of my head. But I knew I wanted to still like stay connected to sports somehow, some way . Um, I remember the University of Washington when I was like playing my freshman year, like I was at, we were playing like , uh, it was during like preseason or training camp, basically. So, you know, we're going through the dog days of training camp and I'm like looking on the sidelines and you know, people are out there watching. And , um, I see Scott Woodward just, you know, kind of walking around. I didn't know who he was at the time 'cause I was like a freshman. And , um, he wasn't really aware like who that , who he was. I was like, I was like, oh, who's that guy? Like ? And it's , he's the athletic director and he is just like walking around like, you know, talking to people, talking to the players. I'm like, dang, I mean, he looks pretty happy, you know, like he's just hanging out, like watching like University of Washington football team, you know. And that was sort of my first impression of like an athletic director. And so not knowing, I'm like, he deals with way more than that and he has a ton , tons of responsibility, but that's kind of was like, oh , okay. Like that kind of sparked my interest in working in like college athletics or athletic administration. That was like my first impression of what an athletic director was. And obviously he's at L S U now, he is doing a great job. So , um, but yeah, that's kind of, you know, I took you all over the place. But yeah, that, that was kind of something that , um, I knew I wanted to do was , which was like work in sports. Um, whenever football ended, not , I'm not exactly sure how that looked, but I knew like law school would help me get to that point,
Collin Kushner:Well dude, this is gonna be perfect. We're gonna get you, we're gonna get you to , to be the next director of athletics at Arizona State <laugh> . You'll bring, you'll bring, you'll bring the Sun Devils back to the Promised Land and then everybody at University of Washington is gonna be like, what the heck? And then you're gonna be like, Hey, this guy Colin , I jumped on his podcast. We were talking about life and my career and my journey and he just, he planted that Arizona State ad seed <laugh>.
Bishop Sankey:Hey , you never know. You never know. You never know down the line. I mean , I would love to work for like I pro team or college team or you know, a union or something. So my , um, yeah, my keep trying to keep my options open, I guess in the sports world
Collin Kushner:Now , um, you're in law school at the University of Tennessee and Knoxville, you're an SS e C guy. Now I had Brandon Lloyd, the former n F l wide receiver on the podcast not too long ago. And it was super interesting because he went back to the University of Illinois, I think like 20 years after he left for the N F L to get his undergraduate degree. And in an article , um, somebody said to him, you don't need a degree, you are you . Why was it so important to go back to Washington, get that undergraduate degree, and why is it, do you think it's even more important to go back to school to further your education now?
Bishop Sankey:I'm biased 'cause you know, I I just always have been one to I guess see the value in education and that really like , um, I guess was crystallized when I went to the University of Washington and I just re you know, that's the first time I was like, okay, like what, what would I wanna do after football? You know, like you hear it all the time as an athlete growing up, like, you know, sports don't define you, you know, sports, you're more than an athlete and, you know, sometimes it takes more time to , for that, for you to actually start believing that and taking actions towards being more than just an athlete because sports is such a big part of your identity and society holds sports at such a high value. But like, really when I was at the University of Washington , um, you know , I just always knew that like, there was like life after football and that's when I really first started like taking those steps and, and working towards , uh, thinking about what I wanted to do when like football ended. But I think , um, getting your education is important because it just, not only like do you get a degree or a piece of paper, but I think it also just develops your character in a lot of ways. You know, especially when it comes to discipline and study habits and developing a love for like learning and stuff like that. You know, you never know, even if you're a professional football player and you play 10, 15 years and you make, you know, life money that to last you for your entire life, you still want to, you know, sort of have this , um, intellectual curiosity that would , that's gonna allow you to do things after you're retired. Like if you, if say you start a business or you start a foundation, you know, you kind of want to like know at least what's going on or know about the different moving parts of your organization or , or of like, know the basic concepts of like business. I think , um, you know, you don't wanna just passively like push those responsibilities on people who are running your business or organization and not really, and be ignorant to all that's going on and all that you need to know to like actually run a successful business or have a successful or know what to do with your money, like in terms of like investing and stuff like that. So I think , um, and education sort of just lays that foundation and teaches you like ways to like basically teaches you how to more be a more effective learner. And also, like for me , um, like I knew like, well given how things were going, you know, I didn't make enough money that would last me for like the rest of my life. So I knew like an education was also a vehicle to just , um, provide a second career and allow me to like, pursue other interests and fall into like a second passion. And so that's kind of , um, why I chose to like always val value like education , um, even, you know, even post-grad education like a master's degree or, you know, doctorate's degree or something like that. But I think definitely like education's important, even if it's not , um, formal education, you know, always trying to educate yourself, like self-education and just learning whatever your interests and passions are. Like , uh, just I guess learning how to, you know, operate in those spaces and, you know, I think it's just like, you know, help helps in so many different ways. So
Collin Kushner:I don't really think I hit my stride educationally until I was at Arizona State. Then things, I just , I loved it. Like, I loved going to class . I had never loved going to class prior to college in my entire life, and I'm in this environment. And I remember after I graduated with a degree in broadcast journalism, you know, I , I told my mom like , I'm never going back to school ever again. And she actually <laugh> , she said like, Hey, like, don't, like, don't say that I haven't gone back to school. But, but it's interesting now as a 32 year old man, like I really have thought to myself like, it would be ki it would be cool to go back to school and, and to learn and to learn more and to expand and, and to grow. And, and I think those are the opportunities that it provides.
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, I mean even like guys like Brandon Lloyd, you know, like if they're , if he's, you said , oh , like the guy was like, oh, you don't have to go back to school, you're Brandon Lloyd. It's like, okay, down the line you may have marketing deals or different endorsement opportunities just based off of your name and you know, you, you would want to like kind of know what's going on in the contracts or be able to maybe learn more about the marketing space or the n i l space to kind of know how to leverage your brand, leverage who you are as a person and just try to utilize yeah, utilize your brand , um, for, you know, your benefit. And so, like I said, you never know, you know, I think, you know, education is is just important and no matter who you are, you know, just to always educate and grow and continue to learn.
Collin Kushner:Well, you hit on such a great point, dude. It's like you want to know, like, we're not gonna be a professional in everything that we do that's just not physically or mentally possible, but you want to somewhat be in the know or have like some level of understanding. And to your point, like yeah, like if you're in on those big deals, you know, and you have that, that educational backing that was able to kind of give you a , a bird's eye view into that, I think you're gonna be more confident and you're gonna be more confident in your ability and you're gonna be able to ask those questions as opposed to just like, I play in the N F L , this is who I am, and you, you and you, and you take care of it because I, I understand that that is an easier avenue to take than going back to school or, or learning about whatever it is that you're trying to do.
Bishop Sankey:Yeah. Or even like, I would say like in with investments, like you hear horror stories all the time of like, you know, investments and financial advisors and stuff. And I think I'm not, I know there's only, you know, sometimes oftentimes a few bad apples can sort of ruin the , uh, ruin it for everyone. But I I would say like as players, you know, just kind of knowing at least the basics of like investment strategy and like different types of investments and just like you said, knowing how to ask those questions, you know, about like, you know, ask your financial advisor or ask someone like, okay, what's going on or what, you know, explain more to me about this just so you can kind of know what's going on. Because you hear , you hear a lot of horror stories about pro athletes and stuff and you know, them just making bad investments choices. And, and so I think a lot of that could be avoided if , um, you know, they valued just educating their and learning about those types of things and not just going purely off of, you know, the fact that they are a former athlete and really just for them to work. Like, I think it's important for athletes to just work, to always work to expand their identity beyond just being an athlete, because life is long, you know, your professional career, even if you play 10 years in the league, you're like, what, 30 years old? And you still have all this like, life to live. So there's so many, there's gonna be so many more like things you'd be, you're gonna be a part of and opportunities that are gonna come that aren't necessarily , um, tied to like you being the best athlete possible. So I think, yeah, it's just important to, to know these things and education can help support prepare players for life after football in numerous, in a lot of ways. And it doesn't have to be a whole degree. Like guys can get like certificates or just, you know, YouTube now, you know, YouTube University, you know, that's a , that's a thing. So, you know, <laugh> , I think there's so many different resources out here to like learn from and prepare yourself for whatever it is you want to go into when, when the game's over. This
Collin Kushner:Is why I love what you're doing and how you're thinking about going back into athletics, like athletic administration at a university or going to work for an N F L team because I mean, Bishop, you, you played the N F L , you played division one football. Like if anyone understands all this stuff, it, it , it's gonna be, it's gonna be you. Like you, you lived and breathed it for so long, now you have an opportunity to maybe help. I mean, you're gonna have tons of other duties if you take on like an ath uh , director of athletics role like Scott Woodward, but you're also gonna be able to help the next wave of athletes , uh, you know, maybe navigate some of these things because you yourself experienced it.
Bishop Sankey:Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, that's really been my main thing. It just looking to grow as a person and provide value in those spaces that I've, you know, been in and to like former athlete or to other athletes and , um, younger athletes and and former athletes. Just be able to, my biggest thing is to provide insight and just share any advice I have to like, about ways to navigate the high school space or the college football space or during the pros or like life after the game and how to like, transition from that or steps you should be taking to like transition , um, from playing football. And , uh, you know, I'm , so as I'm, you know, learning and discovering new things about myself, I'm , I'm looking for new ways to give back , uh, to younger athletes and you know, whether it be with sports stuff, students that , uh, academic stuff. Um, I think , uh, just looking, approaching an athlete from like a whole list , like as a whole person and looking at their like journey holistically, I think that's , uh, something that I've aimed to do and strive to do going forward. And, and I look to help like younger athletes coming up after me as well.
Collin Kushner:Was it hard to walk away from football and, and , and move on to the , this next chapter of your life? Like, I'm always curious about that once you make that decision. And again, it's not like it was finite necessarily, but once you made that decision, was it difficult for you or, or did you struggle with it a little bit?
Bishop Sankey:Um, I mean I definitely struggled, you know, even some, even to this day, some days you just miss it. You're like, man, you know, like, you know, you miss playing and you, you think back like, you know how things, if this went that way, if that went that way, you know, things may have been different, but I think , um, through time you sort of, the more action you take towards like your goals and new dreams, like you kind of , um, I guess build the capacity to like move beyond the game and look toward , look forward to like future things that you, that you have going on. And so, but I still miss it, you know, some of the , some days, you know, I still miss playing. Um, even, you know, the game ended for me sort of , um, you know, I , I was in the C F L at the time, like after I played in the league, I kind of wasn't sure of my football future then I played for a startup league, the a a f I don't know if like people remember what that is, but it didn't , didn't even last for like a whole season. Um, you know, it was, I had a good time playing with my teammates and like, it was a good experience, but it just was unfortunate how it ended. And then after that, I played in the C F L towards the end of 2019 for like two weeks I was in the C F L and then they signed me , uh, for the 2020 season. And I was like, you know, looking forward to really like preparing for that 2020 year. That was like the big comeback year for me. And , um, I wanted to, you know, ball out in the C F L and get another opportunity to potentially play in the league. And so , uh, obviously the C F L season was canceled in 2020 'cause 'cause of covid and everything. And then same thing in 2021, it , while it wasn't canceled, it was postponed like, you know, a few months. So at that point in time I just kind of knew like it made better sense for me to like move on officially from the game. 'cause given my age and position, like I was 29 years old, I was running back and so, and I hadn't played in a game in quite some time, so it just made sense to like officially move on and pursue other things. So , um, you know , that's kind of, that's kind of how my football journey ended. But I think, you know, now it's good to actually be like working towards something long-term . And through my football career, it's just provided so much, you know, opportunities for me to , um, work in sports like, you know, through like the N F L Players Association and others , um, internship opportunities. And so I just try to , um, like take advantage of that and utilize my experience as a player to go and continue to work in sports and, and do stuff going forward.
Collin Kushner:Bishop, what does it mean to be seen as more than just a football player?
Bishop Sankey:I think it means a , it means a lot, you know, I think , um, I don't know, I think it's just like, it's important to know that athletes are just more than their sport. You know, they're human beings , um, who are , you know, capable of doing great things, not just in football, not just in their sport. But beyond that. And like I said, a lot of pro sports careers, like, and when the athletes are pretty young, you know, like even the longest careers, like, I mean unless , unless you're like Tom Braider or someone, you know , play inte like mid forties and like probably could play until he is like 60 and still, you know, still ball out. But most athletes, they're , they're done by like, you know, early thirties at the, at the latest. And so I think it's just important to recognize like, you know, athletes are more than just their sport and these skills and traits that they , um, develop while, while being an athlete can be used and transferable in other professions and other interests and other passions that they have. And so I think it's just a challenge because like athletes, our schedules are so , um, I guess rigid, like up until the end of our pro career because like pretty much our entire identity is spent like trying to be the best athlete and you know, it's a year-round thing, you know, around the clock. Even in the off season , we're always working towards like being the best athlete and it's , there's always like a timeline, you know, preseason, offseason training, preseason prep , preparation in season , uh, games and recovery and you kind of just have to be on this sort of like upward trajectory since like the time you begin playing. And, and so I think like when the game's over, like it's hard to sort of , um, even if you consciously like tell yourself like you're more than a football player, more than an athlete, like sort of you just like, you just feel a little off because your body and mind is , there's , it's so used to, to just like pouring so much into the game and that's really your sole purpose is like, be the best athlete you can be because you know, that's what you've been doing forever. So I think it does take time, you know, I think it takes time to tr you know, become and grow and really I guess do things outside of your professional sport. But , um, yeah , I think it's just important for athletes to be patient with theirselves and just remain optimistic about the possibilities and start taking small steps towards like, things outside of the game and I guess to become more than the athlete and really, you know, remember that you are more than an athlete and that you're capable of doing, you know, whatever you put your mind to.
Collin Kushner:I love how you mentioned patience and , and small steps because you're, you're talking about that whole identity shift football, it's, it's not who you are, it's what you do. In order to, to unravel all of that, once you move on , you a hundred percent need patience and you 110% need to take those small , uh, baby steps, you know, over the course of a long period of time to unwind that rigidity and that schedule and that life, you know, that you once had
Bishop Sankey:Whatever your interests are, you know, 'cause people often try to like say it's hard to find their passion. Some people say, oh, I don't know what my passion is outside of playing the game out outside of my sport. But it's like, whatever you maybe like have the slightest interest in, you know, that may be like a sign that that's something that could turn into a passion if you just begin taking steps towards learning more about what it is you're interested in. Um, look to gain experience and what you're interested in and, you know , just grow in those areas. So I think that's something to remember as well as like a former athlete.
Collin Kushner:I love that man so much knowledge. Dude. Bishop Sankey dropping knowledge here. He's now a juris doctor candidate. I always mess that up. My brother's a lawyer as well. And so I remember when he graduated from law school I was like, Juris doctor, Juris doctor, Juris doctor candidate at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. And when do you graduate, dude? When do you graduate from law school?
Bishop Sankey:Uh, I graduate 2025, so that's when I'm scheduled to graduate. So I have two more years going into my second year, my two L year, and I have my two L year , three L year . They say your one L year is the hardest, so I , I'm hoping they're right, you know, I hope , I'm hoping like the, the tough parts behind me, but I'm just excited to learn and, and continue to grow. And then hopefully looking to give back in the sports realm still when I'm done grad, when I'm through with law school.
Collin Kushner:I'm excited to see where this journey takes you, man. I mean, it's been, it's been an absolute pleasure to hear your story from the beginnings all the way to where we are now in law school and shoot for the stars, man. Yeah.
Bishop Sankey:Appreciate it. I think, yeah, my, my journey's been good so far. You know, I'm just looking to continue to grow and, and continue to, you know, I'm doing the law school, I'm, I'm in law school now, so , um, you know , even with my internship this past summer, I've learned so much just, and I saw, I was able to see sports from another vantage point, you know, see it through like, sort of like agreements and looking at different sponsorship agreements and stuff like that. So it's, that's been cool to see because sports is such, like, everybody loves sports. I think it's such a big part of society. So for me it's been good to explore the different , um, areas of sports, like the business side and then play as a player and then like scouting and coaching and kind of like connect the dots in that way. So it's been a really cool journey for me so far and I'm, you know, looking to continue that going forward.
Collin Kushner:That is super cool that your internship with the Jacksonville Jaguars, how you're able to see the other, the other side of it. 'cause before you were a player, now you're more on the, the legal admin side. Could you imagine if you had, you went to law school first and then you played in the N F L , you would <laugh> you'd be negotiating the largest, largest contracts, man, <laugh> .
Bishop Sankey:Yeah. Not even that, but just like learning well that, but also learning like about , um, just the business side of like marketing and just sort of like how to utilize your brand off outside of the field or off the field. I think like having that knowledge and seeing it from this point of view would would've helped me as a player. Um, and just like you see, like, it's not just like about like the athletes, that's a big part. It's like being the best athlete you can become, but it's also about the experience, like the fan experience and you know, how athletes connect with fans. And I think a big way they do that is just through like the media and , and different ways that , um, like different ways that fans can see the game and connect with athletes even with like social media now, you know, young fans connecting with athletes and that's really what makes sports so great is like, it connects people, players and fans. And , um, it's interesting that it's like be able to learn and see it from different vantage points, like, like how I'm doing now and just seeing how it all works together. And ultimately I think sports, you know, it just connects all people from all different backgrounds, cultures, and it , you know, inspires people to just be great and be their best self . You know, like as a kid when I was a fan, you know, I watched like athletes all the time and I just like was so, I was so inspired by what they did on the field and things that they, learning about what they did off the field and just like listening to little messages and commercials and stuff. So I think it just, it's an important part of just the human experience in general. So it's cool to see sports like, and how it works and , and see the different areas.
Collin Kushner:It's an integral part to society and I think, you know, this conversation, you know, I know a lot of people are gonna get a lot of , uh, whether you're a University of Washington alum or fan or just an N F L or football fan in general. I'm excited for people to kind of hear, you know, what, what you've had to say about your journey and just in a general sense about like how you can , you know , overcome some of those. We're all gonna have obstacles in our lives. Um, it's always , it's always makes, it always makes it a little bit easier when somebody who has played at the highest level, who's gone through those similar obstacles can, can give you maybe, maybe a little bit of a insight on how you can navigate 'em. So, I appreciate the time, man.
Bishop Sankey:Yes, thank you, Colin . I , I really appreciate you for having me on, and I , I enjoyed the convo as well.
Speaker 3:<silence> .