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Hey, where'd you go?
In this podcast, Emmy Award-Winning Journalist Collin Kushner dives into the stories of how former collegiate and professional athletes navigated the various challenges and transitions in their lives. From finding new passions and identities — to overcoming obstacles and achieving new goals — these competitors share their experiences and lessons learned. Join Collin as he catches up with some of the most inspiring superstars, discovering what it takes to succeed in the game of life.
Hey, where'd you go?
Colin Wilson, former NHL Forward || The Militant Voice Within
Join Colin Wilson, a former first-round NHL draft pick, as he discusses the complexities of living with OCD and how it influenced his playing career. He reflects on the rigid, militant voice that drove him to perfection, the intense pressures of professional hockey, and the role OCD played in his success and struggles.
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I have the whole OCD thing, but that's where I kind of like, look around. I think life is hard and everybody has their challenges and I think, you know, externally people have challenges, but internally, everybody's going to go through something at some point. Not to make everybody a, a mental patient, it's just, it's just life with a lot of bumpy roads and different ways of interpreting it .
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another episode of the, Hey , word you go podcast. I'm your host Colin Kushner, and we have another call in a very first for the pod. He spells it with one L , though , um, a little bit different. It's former NH lr , first round draft pick of the Nashville Predators. Paul Wilson . What's going on man? Thanks for jumping on.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. I was gonna add the , uh, spelling of the name. So glad you took care of
Speaker 2:It. My parents wanted to spell my name with one L and apparently at the hospital the nurse called me Colon. So from that point forward, my dad looked at my mom. He is like, we gotta add the other, we have to add the other L in there. Has it ever happened to you before?
Speaker 1:Uh, yes, the colon and actually, yeah, Shea Weber called me Colon as well.
Speaker 2:I always like to start with my guests from the very beginning. You grew up in, in Canada and both your dad and grandfather play the NHL. What attracted you to the game of hockey outside of your grandfather and your dad? Uh, playing professionally?
Speaker 1:Yeah. No , um, aside from my dad and , uh, my grandfather playing , um, just growing up in Winnipeg, I mean, that's what you did. And I, I don't, my parents tell me memories of me being attracted to hockey before my earliest memory . So , um, I think just the cold , uh, you know, where being from Winnipeg , um, and the community, you just kind of get drawn to it. But yeah, my whole life , uh, very passionate about it.
Speaker 2:You were selected by the Nashville Predators in the first round, seventh overall of the 2008 NHL draft , uh, third generation NHL player. What was that moment like for you? If you can kind of take us back there
Speaker 1:Again, a very validating experience. Um, I had , um, just amazing, I mean, to go in the first round and, you know, sometimes I forget that that all happened until you introduced me and you said, I was first rounder and I was like, oh, yeah, that went <laugh> . I was, it was a while ago, but , uh, I was , um, but obviously very cool. If you're in the first round, you get to go up on stage , um, you know, you get to go through some , um, formalities before the draft if you're ranked in the top 10. So the whole experience was very cool. And then finally be belonging to a club. Um, and it was Nashville and it's funny, like the draft was in there , very much older jerseys played a couple years in them, but , um, yeah, so a surreal experience. But I also, like everybody says you're kind of like, okay, now I gotta go stick. But you do feel pretty good about yourself after going in the first round.
Speaker 2:I'm curious about like attachment, you know, when you're such a a when you're a high level prospect, I think in , in any sport, like, is it challenging to not attach yourself to that, to that status and that level, you know, of being a top tier athlete or like, what's that like, kind of having that put on you at such a young age and then having to navigate that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Um, a lot. I'm sure every, I mean when you're 19 and you're not too , I don't know, you're not as psychologically developed. I'm sure you're gonna be very attached to it. Um, you know, there are some guys, I mean, when I look at the psychology of different guys that I've played with, I mean, some guys who just were more well-rounded and not attached, obviously took the pressure a lot better in my opinion. But , um, no, I mean, I, I, I wanted it, I've , um, felt a lot, a lot of pressure to stay in NHL or , um, but that's just kind of, you know, that's life.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I , I , I guess the reason why I was asking about that, you know, attachment to, to what you do, 'cause in previous guests have have said that, you know, this is not, this is not who you are, it's what you do. And , and those have been some of the most interesting conversations because like you, you have all this, you've worked so hard to get to a certain level, and then you , you attain that and then all of a sudden, you know, that like you live and you breathe it. So I just found it like fascinating how like different athletes have, you know, navigated a former NFL guy, you know, said that on his profile it says just a guy living life, you know, 'cause you know, some people have like their accolades and all that. And he pretty much told me he is like, none of that matters. You know, what matters is like who I am away and, and how I am with my friends and my family, and how I kind of walk through this life. I don't know . It was fascinating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that's a, if if all athletes can get to that place very quickly after playing , uh, or during playing, I'm sure that would be amazing. <laugh> , I , I mean, I know I only have LinkedIn, but I certainly put on their former NHL player 'cause people respond to my dms. But , um, yeah, I mean that it isn't what, it isn't who you are, it is what you do. But I think to truly embody that takes a little bit of time for everybody. I think , uh, that's why the transition can be hard for guys.
Speaker 2:You were diagnosed with OCD or rookie season in Nashville. Uh, can you kind of talk about that moment in time being so young and then , uh, you know, being sat down and then, you know, telling you about OCD and like, what, what was that like for you ?
Speaker 1:Um, I mean, it was, I was in a slightly distressing place , uh, where kind of the people who drafted me had noticed a cha a shift in me. So they kind of were trying to figure it out. Then they diagnosed me , uh, with OCD and I mean, I honestly didn't take very seriously for another eight years. Um, but yeah, at the time I just remember it being distressing. And honestly, I don't think I, I think I, it's been a minute since I've read my article, but , uh, yeah , I didn't do too much about it. I tried some things initially and then I was like, you know what ? I'm just gonna gut through it. I'm sure nothing's wrong with me. Um, but yeah, later on it would've been very beneficial <laugh> to have done something about it. Then for
Speaker 2:Viewers listening in, like , what is , what is OCD , uh, obsessive compulsive disorder? 'cause I , I as well have OCD Colin . And , um, it's one of those things where I, everyone just kind of, it thinks it's just excessive hand washing or excessive cleaning. And, you know, through my own journey, being 33 now and being diagnosed at 30, you know, that was 30 years of not knowing what was going on. So it's , um, it's kind of , it's, it's interesting to explain to people because they're kinda like, whoa, wait a second, it's more than that. I'm like, yes. Like it's a lot more, and it can be very distressing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So OCD , so you have an obsession, an obsessive thought, and to relieve that anxiety, you do a compulsion to rid yourself of that anxiety. And it actually dissipates for a moment , uh, from doing that checking. But then the anxiety comes on a little bit stronger, and then you check again. And then, so it turns into this cycle , uh, where the anxiety, I guess what I'll call anxiety , uh, grows and grows , uh, the more you do your compulsion. But it's, it's like it can make , yeah, like you said, it can manifest in many ways. When I played, I had to retime my skates all the time. Um, it's actually funny, just yesterday it popped up, I had like this one feeling that I get in my knee, but it's like, okay, there's pain and then there's like, I can't stop focusing on it. Um, so I just have to make sure, you know, today I don't start doing checking. I don't, you know, go bend and try to do a squat. That's my compulsion. Um, you know, try to just have the obsessive thought, be with it, let it die out. Um, but that is, that is OCD , but that's a very brief description of a rather complicated thing.
Speaker 2:It's super complicated, extremely complicated. And there, there are so many themes like associated with it. And, you know, it's so interesting that you talk about the skate time because I, I have, I hadn't , I guess I still have to a degree, the same thing when I lace them up. I'm, I'm a goalie and every single time I can remember as a kid, like, they just never, they never felt right. And I remember I'd like time around and then I would ontime and time and next thing, you know, like, you're getting to the rink like two hours before because this skate, this skate lacing ritual, you know, is, is taking so much time. And the craziest part about it's, they never felt right, didn't matter how, how tight or, or what they, they , they just never felt right.
Speaker 1:Yep . So we can <laugh> definitely, definitely , uh, yeah, be empathetic towards each other on that . No, I mean, yeah, exactly what I, yeah, how I felt , um, you know, took a lot of, took a lot of the joy out of the game. Um, but yeah, no, it was a , it was a , uh, all of a journey with that .
Speaker 2:Was there ever like a moment, like when you reflect back on your life growing up, where maybe you're like, like signs of OCD maybe started to appear a little bit, little bit, of course you wouldn't know back then, but now, you know, being an adult and looking back
Speaker 1:Yeah, it , it is, yeah. I mean, it's hard to know, like how much of it is just a, I don't know. It's, it's hard. 'cause now I have like the cross breed of addiction where I hear some people who don't have OCD , but I have like addictive personalities who do similar stuff, but , um, they kind of are like cousins of symptoms of it. But , um, no, I mean, like, there is , there is definitely ample , um, signs of it. Um, and just some checking that it do or things that would be like a mental block for a full summer, just obsessive worrying at a very young age, you know, kind of like what you said about your skates not feeling right. I tend to feel, I mean, there's just so many times most things don't feel right and then I obsess over it. So that's , um, there's definitely patterns in signs, but at the same time, not enough where , you know , I , I've had talks with my parents and, you know, nobody's blaming anybody for not noticing.
Speaker 2:You said in your article the things you can't see , uh, via the Player Tribune. My OCD played a role in making me the player I was. Um, would it , like, can you kind of e expound on that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I, I think it, I, coupled with OCD tends to be like a pretty rigid, militant voice inside your head. And I mean, so I had that, I mean, like, I, I just was like , the voice inside my head's , you know, at whatever level I was at, just said, okay, well you wait until the last person gets off the ice. And that's how you know that you're gonna, you know, you spend another hour and a half and you do better, and then you see what every else said in the gym. And people talk about that, which is being competitive of it really, whatever drive inside , inside me was a militant , uh, type of voice and allowed me to obsess and hyperfocus on things. And I think that that was, you know, a rather, yeah, it's a large benefit if you , if you wanna perfect something,
Speaker 2:It's interesting that you bring that up because that's kind of how I feel the same way. Like, I , I don't want to take away, like, it really sucks. I mean, when , when the mind's on fire and, you know, like you're just like caught in that loop. Like it's, it's not, it's not a fun place to be in. It doesn't matter what the theme is, like it just, all , all of it really is, is super distressing. But if there's one thing I could say, it's like the hyper focusing on certain things, whether it be as an athlete or work, I mean, I think I could tell you from my perspective, that saved me from like a ton of roads, you know, that that could have led me to, to, to bad places like that hyper-focusing. So in some way, and I'm curious, maybe there's like a little bit of gratitude, you know, for it to , to some degree. I don't know. What do you think?
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I mean, my, I've lived a very interesting life and I continue to be pushed into different paths that are quite interesting. And so if I say no to a part of it, I say no to all of it. So, you know, I'm pretty happy , you know, I have a pretty, I've had a pretty cool life, and even though I've dealt with some suffering, you know, I could, I am grateful for whatever it is that's pushing me around into these very interesting places. Um, so yeah, so some gratitude for it. I can say that right now. But there's some <laugh> some other days where you catch me where I'm not so grateful for it. So yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess like with all this, like going on, like you're in the NHL, like, was there a sense, like, did you feel like you had to hide a part of yourself?
Speaker 1:Um, yes. I think I, I , I was doing it more subconsciously where I would just go like very quiet. Like, I don't even think about that. Like in my, I've always thought it was my , myself as a little bit more outgoing and then, you know, I have to talk to my old teammates who would describe me as like the most quiet guy in the team. And I'm like, really? But it's, 'cause I was like so in my head all the time that people just, yeah, I was just seemingly quiet. Um, but um, yeah, I mean, you just don't, you don't tell anybody. It's hard. Like, I remember it , it wasn't until my, at the time, girlfriend moved in with me and all of a sudden somebody had to like, see me doing some of this crazy stuff or like being in my head where, you know, suddenly I couldn't really hide. Like I, you know, you could put it on a face at the rink for three hours, but you can't do it when you get home. So I was more , um, more time where I couldn't necessarily hide too much.
Speaker 2:Was there like a teammate or a coach or a general manager, like somebody like you were able to really like, confide in and kind of , you know, lean on like, while all this is going on?
Speaker 1:No, but I did, I mean, the team psychologist in Nashville was solid throughout my whole career, him and I still, him and I still talk. Um, I don't know, I had my friend , like Tyson Barry was just a very good friend, and we would talk about things outside of just hockey, talk about life. He knew that I had OCD , all that stuff. Like we were quite open in our conversations. Um, so that was helpful. But no, there was , um, none until I, <laugh> got like a , uh, proper therapist when I was about 29. Um, was there, did I feel like there was necessarily a , um, some form of support?
Speaker 2:Was there any way like that you thought like, okay, if I have success on the ice and I just keep, you know, focusing on this, that it'll all just go away?
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I mean, I, I just didn't, I don't even know if I was trying to get rid of it or I just kind of was like, it's weird again, like I didn't, even though I would tell, I would say I had OCDI also just did , it didn't seem like it would ever go away or I don't know what the heck, heck was going on. Um, so I was more just kind of like plugging through, making sure I got to keep my job and whatever that took, I think I was just so focused on keeping my job and like whatever came up, I put my head down and get through, but wasn't thinking there was anything even wrong, even as I was having a tough time.
Speaker 2:In terms of the addiction component , um, would you say, was that a mechanism to, to hide, numb into quote unquote , you know, feel a sense of normalcy, you know, throughout your everyday life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe. I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, with, with OCD definitely would've driven me that way. I think that it certainly could be correlated. I think Mo you know, being a , being around the rooms of aa, it seems as though most people who come to addiction feel off in some way, and then , then all of a sudden you find a drug or a , or just alcohol and it seems to bring them back to a base level everybody's else is at . So to that degree, there was some definitely a form of relief I would get that , you know, everybody gets, but maybe it just sparked me a little bit harder.
Speaker 2:It's like the addiction component is so fascinating because, you know, we get, we get that relief, you know, we're, we're feeling good, we get that relief. But then after a while , like it's almost like you kind of like max out and then it has like, it has the inverse effect, you know, and then you, and then it makes whatever is going on in your mind a million times worse.
Speaker 1:Yes. I think that is just the breakdown of how addiction happens. Something that's a Yeah , gives you that relief. Um, just the way that these chemicals work in our brain, you end up developing a dependence. You don't get the same relief as before everything that you described, and all of a sudden your brain has flipped over a little bit. Now you're addicted. So it's a slow moving , insidious process, then all of a sudden, yeah, you're not getting relief and you're addicted and everything's worse. So certainly the uh, point I found myself in ,
Speaker 2:You know , I listened to a couple other podcasts you're on, and of course, you know, the two players Tribune articles and you talked about like the, the different variations of therapy and counseling and help that you got. And I kind of want to talk about like, you have like your, your exposure response therapy or like your OCD therapy, then you have like your regular talk therapy, and then maybe you have like some stuff that's maybe like a little more spiritual. How has like the combination of all three like helped shape you and help you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's different. Yeah, you need different things at different times, I'm sure throughout life and maybe with, maybe with OCDI need a little bit more <laugh> , a little bit more of the support than the average person. But no, I mean, like the, my first therapist who kind of was like, Hey, you should also probably get sober. Um, she was solid. She was basically psychoanalytic , um, somebody who's just felt, felt good that , um, kind of guide guided conversations , um, around kind of what I've been through. Um, and then, yeah, the CBT aspect with specifically for OCD developing exposure responses for myself to do , um, because you're basically just blunting your anxiety further. So , um, that is very challenging to do. Uh, <laugh> it sucks. Um, but I do , but I do that. Um, but yeah. And then, yeah, just my own kind of spiritual macro program go through reading different , uh, texts. But within all this I could do have to step back sometimes and wonder, or like, I always have to be, I always have to discern between what my motivating intention is, because sometimes it ends up being my OCD that's like, well, you need to perfect this and hammer this thing out. And 'cause that was like my original intention. And honestly, I like wrote those articles I wrote, I thought I'd be like, I thought <laugh> . I thought like, okay, I'm gonna write this and in the next five years I'll be like, good anyways. And it's like, oh no, this is a long, long enduring battle. So yeah,
Speaker 2:There's the sitting in the, with the uncertainty aspect. And then, you know, I've learned, and I'm curious what you think. There's, there are two questions. Like I'll ask myself, is there somebody I can call who has the exact answer to this? And can I take a time? Is there a time machine I can use? And most of the time, like that's how I'm able to discern whether it's something related to, to OCD .
Speaker 1:That's good. I like that. I think I , I mean, I, I end defining similar insights, but that definitely, that resonates.
Speaker 2:Are there any like, tools you can kind of walk me through or like sayings or certain things like in regard, not just necessarily in the world of, of OCD , but just psychology in general that you find helpful that you, that you use on a daily basis?
Speaker 1:Off the top of my head right now, it's , um, I don't know . I think at the basis of like most, most religion and most psychology is just accepting what is, I mean, you're suffering. I mean, like, that's the , the background of Buddhism is like, if you're suffering, when you're not accepting what is suffering pain, pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Um, so, you know , always reminding yourself that it's, you know, they're , you're have , you're having, if you're suffering, you're having a reaction to what is versus accepting what is, and that's a whole life, you know? And at the same time, you're never gonna perfect it, and this is gonna be, you're gonna have to have a constant reminder with your own neuroses and everything like that. But that seems to be a sweet spot around kind of acceptance and compassion that I try to work with at the moment. I
Speaker 2:Did want to touch on , uh, the psychedelic component. Like how has that helped bring you peace and, and helped you heal?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so psych , the psychedelic component, it gave me a , I mean, I had these like beautiful ex spiritual experiencing something outside of myself type of events, which kind of, you know, it shifts your life , um, a bit. But with that being said, there's like, I mean, it's a , it's all about, you know, now you're in this world now, what type thing? Um, so you know, it , it was a pretty amazing experience. But I, I know other people, and I think I've spoken about this before, other people kind of go a little bit more panacea, you know, this is everything. And I certainly see a lot of my friends who do ayahuasca twice a month, you know, I don't know what they're searching for anymore. But , um, I, I, it's gonna be interesting to see how it integrates into society. It was a beneficial thing for me, but I'm somebody who I don't plan, I have no plans on going back and doing more, and it didn't believe me, it didn't cure my OCD, I still have to deal with it every day , but it certainly gives you a kind of a , you know, it allows you to accept more when you maybe have a more macro , um, take on what life is or something like that. A little bit more of a spiritual experience.
Speaker 2:Would you say it's like another like tool in the toolbox? Obviously I know it didn't totally, you know, it didn't just rid you of the OCD , but like you can maybe reflect back on that experience and then access it, like remind yourself like, Hey, like, I am not this, I am not this thing.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I try to live like a more contemp of life , um, a more ritualized life, not an OCD ritualized, but you know, like a , you know, try to be grateful, read a spiritual text and it does give you something, you know. And I think that there's , um, and then at the same time, I mean like, I was atheist up until I did psychedelics and now, like to give something o you know, to give problems over to something higher than yourself, which is a mainstay in the 12 steps, and to have experienced something that I feel like I can give problems over to is a pretty great psychological tool.
Speaker 2:Going back to, to the hockey component of your life, do you think your NHL career made you feel pressured to be perfect or to present yourself or be perceived in a certain way for others?
Speaker 1:I think I felt as though I needed to be perfect, and I was driven, was a little too attached to status playing in the NHL, making money , um, and accomplishing things. So I think that that's more where I felt pressure , um, and I went to the , a place that would provide that pressurized situation. And , um, so more, so, more so that, too much pressure on myself to accomplish those things. But at the same time, I don't know, I think you're, if you see a lot of successful people, most of 'em are bordering on mental patients, <laugh> a lot of crazy people who are successful. So not all
Speaker 2:When it comes to like, where you are now, like, you know, having graduated with a degree in , uh, in psychology and now, you know, getting your master's like in like how do you kind of move through the academia world? Like where , where you want to be successful, but like, it's not, like it doesn't mimic, you know, maybe the certain things from the NHL. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I mean, like, I have to work, I, I mean, when I went back my first course that I went back and took, I, I didn't because I wasn't prepared for it, but I , I had never experienced it. 'cause I didn't even have this when I went to school in college, but I like wrote an essay for the first time, and then this one line, I was like, no, that's wrong. And I like, went back, corrected it, and I was like, you know, it still doesn't feel right. Went back and corrected it, and then it was like eight times and I was like, freaking out. Couldn't, couldn't stop. Like, I was literally like putting my laptop in another room, going back and checking it, and I was like, oh, wow. So I have to work on that. Like, I just turned in a data analytics homework that I wanted to check a bunch of times, and now I just turn it in, I just let it go. So, no, it's been very, very similar because I turn into a perfectionistic person , um, with anything , um, that give , has a grade in it. So yeah,
Speaker 2:The reason why I was asking is because like I've learned like through my own like learnings that like, like the, like I was always like so caught up in the theme, like whatever the theme was or whatever, like I was obsessing or compulsing about, and I was always, I, it was, it , it would always be like the worst one. I realized then like, through like a lot of, like the therapy and stuff that it's, it's all the same thing just in like a different costume. So like, it's obviously like, you know, you had like your stuff in the NHL like perfecting, perfecting now in the classroom, like it's in a different environment, but it's literally like the same, like the same exact thing with like going back and like checking the papers and all that. How has like the, like the self-awareness aspect, like, has that been a game changer for you? Like, I know it doesn't take away like the pain and the distress, but like, just knowing, like does that help to in any, in any way, shape or form?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, gaining awareness and then choosing a different, a different pattern , um, or a different behavior is kind of the basis of CBT. And I try to do it. And at the same time, I think now, you know, you know, there's a CT, the acceptance and commitment , um, and now having a wife and a kid, I just know where it brings me if I really let myself go into a OCD loop. So, you know, going back to school now, doing a master's , I have a kid , you know, I didn't have a kid previously. Now I just go, okay, like it's time to make a decision here. Do I really wanna sit here and ruin my day or do I wanna feel , be with my daughter? Um, so that's, that's helped. And then knowing, yeah, again, a lot of acceptance around having it, even, even as I wrote the article, I still like sometimes didn't, I was like, I don't have OCD . I think I , I think that's just all made up, but , um, but now I'm really accepting over that , um, and more ready to work with it.
Speaker 2:I did want to talk to you about like the self-love like component. Like how important is that and how, like has that been an important component for you? Just the self-love aspect of all this?
Speaker 1:It is, that is going to be a life of work. <laugh> . It , I've , I , my, my original or pardon me, my, I always have a , you know, my reaction to everything is typically very self-critical. So it's almost like the second or third wave I have to start is when I have to find kind of self-compassion. Um, and I'm also accepting of that because I think it's always gonna be my first response. Everything is gonna be the critical voice, but , um, when I find most peace is when I'm kind of being more flexible and easy on myself. So, but that, that really will be a lifetime of work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that, but that's like such like an awesome thing to like, I don't know, like, I, I , and again, I think like in , in , when we're in good places, like maybe there's like a sense of excitement to kind of like work on these like little like nuanced ideas or, or things that I think get overlooked in, in society. 'cause like you, like I definitely have like that inner kind of general who's like, you, like you better do, you know, 10 more, you know, air squats, you know, or like, keep going, keep going. And then , um, you know, it's like some days like when you know the body and the mind are just, you know, wiped, you know, that it makes it worse. You know, if that, if that part comes online. So then it's nice when you can kind of add in like that self-compassion, like, Hey man, like catch it at some point, be like, Hey, it's all good. No worries. We'll get after it tomorrow or the next day. It's time to rest.
Speaker 1:Yes, is a very good feeling. I think one of the things, one of like my mantras is you like speaking to myself, like, oh , you don't have to do anything. And that kind of , and it's like, gives me such a relief. Like, I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't have to perform. Like, there I'm always like, performative for some voice that's making me do things that sounds a little bit more schizophrenic. But , um, <laugh>,
Speaker 2:I know what you mean, man. I got you. Yeah .
Speaker 1:But yeah , but like to just say to myself like, oh, you don't have to do anything. It's just like , oh my God.
Speaker 2:Wow, <laugh> .
Speaker 1:That feels pretty good.
Speaker 2:I kind of want to go back to that Player's Tribune article titled The Things You Can't See. You described a moment during the Stanley Cup finals against the Pittsburgh Penguin saying quote , my brain blew up and quote , what do you mean by your brain blew up? Like, what happened
Speaker 1:There ? Uh, previous, so like about two seasons before that, it was just like I, my brain had been <laugh> been on its way or like could literally couldn't sleep. It was all day dread and anxiety for a full season. Um , and then this time it was that coupled with, I mean like for the th past three or four year, three or four seasons, like the only way I could sleep was with sleeping pills. Um, and that just started adding on. One of them was addicting, it's an addictive substance, the other one wasn't. And I actually wasn't, I I can admit when I'm addicted to something, I wasn't addicted to the sleeping pills. Um, but I think just I started going up to such high doses just trying to sleep. 'cause I was using it for every day combined with the partying, combined with OCD that I wasn't doing anything about. Um, kinda the pressures of the NHL the extended season. And yeah, it just wasn't , uh, things blew up. It was a combination of the OCD , the addiction , um, self-medicating, but it was a, yeah, very, very dark place <laugh> . So I don't know, like combined of , uh, yeah, kinda hard to describe, but it , I still will stay with the , uh, brain blew up, not very functional, not a functional human being. At that time I was like, just so used to being able to play through everything and live through this type of feeling. And it just seemed normal. Like I, I don't know, like I , again, I never really sought too much help. I, I didn't know anything was going wrong necessarily that wrong. So it , my brain blew up and this is me, the article of me reflecting on that. But at the time, I like kind of brush it . I , I don't know, like the fact that I didn't <laugh> I didn't go get like seek professional help as soon as the season ended. Like that's really what I should have done , that place that I was in. And I still managed to skate by for another year and a half, probably <laugh> .
Speaker 2:Yeah, the , uh, that's hard though, man. Like, when you're in it, and of course like the hindsight like is is always gonna be 2020, but that's, that's hard though, dude, with like, so much like going up, like I know now it like, seems easy , like , oh, like why didn't I just go seek like immediate help? But dude, I under, I understand like in that type of space, like everything's like, I don't know, like when the walls are like kind of caving in to me, they're , you're not like looking out for options, you know, like to see it's just kind of like, what the heck is going on?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, well I think in the last, since that happened in the last like five or six years, I mean, the amount of guys who have taken a month off mid-season or something like that is pretty, like, it's not uncommon. And actually when at that time you just never heard of it, like nobody was taking a month off to go to a facility. And that seems to happen more and more, which is amazing. I'm happy for those guys. But I was so, you know, all I thought about was like, even in the off season , I'm , I'm like, well, I only have two months and I have to get ready for the next season. Like, I can't, I can't take time to get this thing better time to ramp it back up. So yeah, you're just , uh, just thinking about how , how to get , uh, how to get to the rink the next day.
Speaker 2:Was there a maybe a little bit of fear that if you did take that time that like, you wouldn't be able to go back in the sense of like, you wouldn't like the NHL, like that would be it? To, to, to a degree?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so that , yeah, just a whole lot of thing . I mean , embarrassment around it. Um, embarrassment around it, not being able to come back. Yeah, all I'm sure all those things.
Speaker 2:When you reflect back on your hockey career today, do you feel fulfilled?
Speaker 1:Yes and no. It's yes and no. I think it's, I don't know , I still gotta play 11 years, gotta play 11 in the years, 11 years in the NHL like you said, I was a first round draft pick and I think I had a lot, a lot of talent that I was able to show off at different times, but it could have been more consistent. But then also I look back on the other hand and be like, oh, I went through a lot with injuries and mentally that I'm actually kind of impressed, <laugh> impressed that I was able to make it through all that and somehow , uh, you know, get as many years as I did.
Speaker 2:What does OCD obsessive compulsive disorder mean to you today?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. It it is a, what I, off the , off the top of my head, I will, it means to me a worthy adversary, <laugh> is what came , what it came to me. It's , um, it's a cr you know, the acceptance around it being a chronic condition in life, you know, this is just the thing I was dealt in life and it has its benefits, has its negatives, but , um, it is what it is. I guess
Speaker 2:With everything, you know, now, Colin, you know, all the ups and, and all the downs, like, what advice would you give to your younger self and, and just people in general today, if , uh, you know, if someone comes to you, you know , and, and you kind of get the feeling that there may be , you know, in a similar space that you were once in, like what advice would you give them and how would you help?
Speaker 1:I would say process versus goal oriented, thinking that that's life. If you can be pro , that's it . Like , I think that that's the holy grail. It's just process oriented and, you know, building good relationships. And you'll do that if you're process oriented. 'cause you're looking around kind of enjoying the moment while, you know, not being unaware of the goal, but not making that your main priority. So you can kind of balance whether or not you get there.
Speaker 2:In terms of kind of the, the process, you know, over the outcome, Colin , we live in this society where there's just so much that's being thrown at us. We're oversaturated, you know, social media , uh, just technology, just all these things. Like how, like how do you become focused on the process when everything around you is more goal like, or like climbing up the ladder focused?
Speaker 1:Um, well I actually, separately I'll say with social media and all that, I mean like, everybody should delete most of it. I, I only , I I only have LinkedIn because I need , um, I'm trying to get into having a job <laugh>. But , um, I think yeah, also on that front, if you understand your cognitive biases, it's helped me so much digest information more properly. Um , but yeah, in terms of , um, culturally, I don't know, again, just always reverting back to the process and it's hard to do, but there is enjoyment in it and , um, I don't know, trying to stay focused on that. 'cause at the same time, I don't want to tell people like, oh, don't try to be successful , um, in any way. 'cause I don't think that that's the message. And I think there is something to American culture that's pretty impressive and we accomplish a lot of great things as a nation from our culture that's pretty competitive. So if you can, I mean it , when you slip into goal oriented thinking, it's okay , um, be easy on yourself, like you said, self-compassion. But , um, again, all this stuff is easy, easy in theory, hard in practice.
Speaker 2:That's well said dude, because it's like, if you think about like all like the micro things we do every day , like you wake up and you make breakfast, like the goal, like the goal is it's easy to like lose sight of the actual process. You're, you know, putting your oatmeal in the pan, you're washing your berries , uh, you know, if that's, if that's what you choose. Um, and then as opposed to just , you know, I think most of the time, like I, I'll get like caught up in like, just, I can't wait to eat this as opposed to like, and then I have to catch myself being like, Hey dude, like, it sounds crazy, Colin , but I'll literally, it's like an internal dialogue right now. You're washing the fruit, like, and I'll literally like wash it and like be like really mindful of it then I'm not perfect. Because as we both know, perfection is an illusion. Um, but I feel like those like little micro things are, if you can practice the process in those , I think it maybe makes it the larger, the larger, you know, things maybe a little bit easier. You kind of sharpen that, sharpen that tool a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that you're just definitely very well describing mindfulness and why Buddhists find it to be a skill very much worth giving up your life or to cultivate. I mean, it's, if you can be mindful in situations like that, try to broaden it, try to have longer moments of mindfulness, that's Yeah, incredible. I think to have that goal and to be mind and you recognize when you're mindful and more aware, you are able to enjoy that process more. Um, so yeah, I mean that's a great goal. It's a great goal and a worthy goal of having, without saying to enjoy the process over the goal. Now I'm getting wordy, but Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's crazy man. Like how, like, and it doesn't , and it doesn't matter. Like this is OCD anxiety, like aside , I think mindfulness is like a, is a wonderful practice for everyone, but especially with like an ooc or an anxiety, like it can really help you bring you, it brings you back to exactly what you're doing in that moment. And there's no, you're not, you know, searching for that, that time machine I was telling you about, you know, thinking about like what's happening or the future. You're not going in the past thinking like, oh, did I did that one thing, offend that person. It's like you're thinking about like your feet, like walking into the concrete as you're walking to the gym.
Speaker 1:Yep . No grounding being in the moment. Yeah, that's all, it's all great things to cultivate and that's things I'm working on for sure.
Speaker 2:To me, this was , this was so powerful. You wrote, be kind to yourself, to your mind. Have patience with your soul, your body, and know that you don't have to do it alone.
Speaker 1:Mm . That's, that's good writing. I've been <laugh>
Speaker 2:Who wrote that. That
Speaker 1:Definitely helps that I , uh, that , uh, I had a professional writer with me during that. Um, well that , I don't know, I think that that in terms of being process oriented , um, I think that that's a more poetic way of putting it , uh, kind of at the end, being kind to yourself along this journey. Um , and I think that I might have cut you off with this , um, and where you're going with it, but , um, no , I mean that , yeah, that's definitely the message throughout and , um, you know, having the support and kind of feeling the support is , um, another vital aspect.
Speaker 2:I know like you have, like according to your LinkedIn page, dude, you have like so many irons in the fireman, like you're getting your masters like you, you have, so you have so many interests. Um, in terms of the psychology aspect, is, is the goal to be able to like, help people, like, like in terms of like what you're looking to do next, Colin? Like what, like what are we thinking man?
Speaker 1:Um, I thought, so I , I got my degree in psychology thinking that I would go into that field and I actually worked, I went and worked at a rehab , uh, for about a half a year and it was enjoyable. But now I've actually pivoted to global affairs , um, studying , uh, the global economy and doing data analytics, but I want to use it. Um, I wanna use it either for environmental challenges or, you know , um, inequality throughout the world, kind of helping developing countries build and kind of doing it from a more systemic way versus a one-on-one way where I feel like, you know, solving , um, the economics and financing that allows for a country to, you know, further develop and high , you know, get larger wages. Something like that is , um, a better use of my mind and one that I would find more rewarding. So that's where I'm at. But then using the psychology degree, I mean , everything's psychology, so it doesn't matter what I'm doing. Um, always thinking about it.
Speaker 2:Colin Wilson, everybody appreciate the time.
Speaker 1:Thank you .