Stop Painting Doorways on Brick Walls: How to Discern God's Will & Recognize an Open Door

What do you do when you're standing in front of a decision and you're not sure if it's God opening a door — or if you're forcing one open yourself? In this episode, Pastor Jess and Pastor Gabe unpack a framework for discerning God's will that has shaped Westside's biggest current decision as a church, and works just as well for parenting, marriage, career, and the everyday moments where you're asking, "Is this from the Lord, or is this just me?"

Discover:

• The "painted doorway on a brick wall" picture and what it reveals about forcing God's hand
• The 5-filter framework for discernment: Word, Spirit, Counsel, Circumstances, Spiritual Unity
• Why God's will never contradicts God's Word — and why that has to be filter number one
• How to tell the difference between the Holy Spirit's confirmation and His conviction
• The "rudder vs. rowing against the current" picture for Spirit-led living
• Why every believer needs a Paul, a Barnabas, and a Timothy in their corner
• The "squeeze the lime" principle — stewarding what you already have before asking for more
• Why favorable circumstances alone aren't enough to confirm an open door
• How spiritual unity protects big decisions in marriage, family, and the church
• Real examples from parenting school choices, waiting on a spouse, and Westside's current building decision

Most of us have tried to muscle our way through a wall we painted to look like a door. It hurts, it doesn't work, and it leaves us exhausted. The good news is that God isn't hiding His will from you. He's already given you His Word, His Spirit, godly people, real-life circumstances, and a community to walk with. When you slow down enough to let those five things speak together, what felt foggy starts to feel clear — and when an actual door opens, you'll recognize it because you won't have to break it down.

Key Takeaways:

• God's will never contradicts God's Word — if it fails filter one, you don't pass go
• The Holy Spirit is your rudder; peace and dissonance both have something to teach you
• Counsel that never challenges you isn't counsel — it's an echo chamber
• Don't mistake favorable circumstances for confirmation; run them through the other filters first
• Steward what's already in your hand before you ask God for more
• When the wind is in the sail, you know it — stop trying to blow into your own sails

Question for you to think about: What's a decision in front of you right now where you've been forcing a door — and what would change if you ran it through all five filters this week?

Calls to Action:

• Subscribe so you don't miss next week's episode
• Drop a comment with the decision you're discerning right now — we'll pray for you
• Share this with someone in a season of big decisions
• Connect with us at Westside Community Church

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, welcome to this week's Midweek Motivation. My name is Jess, and I am here with Pastor Gabe.

SPEAKER_06 0:06

Yeah, it's great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

It's been a minute, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

Nice to be back.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Yeah. So we're gonna jump into a conversation that um is basically what you promised on Sunday.

SPEAKER_06 0:18

Yeah, I made a promise, right? That we have to fulfill now. Yeah. Um, and that is that we uh we've as a church been kind of wrestling through some discernment about God's will for our next steps. And um it led me to want to teach like, how do you know then if what you're looking at is an open door from God versus the other alternatives, which I've you know, I paint like I painted the picture on Sunday of like what I've often done in my life and discerning things is um I wanted something, you know, and and I thought maybe it's not against God's will. Sure. So what I would do is I'd look at a brick wall and paint a doorway in it and then you know try to press my way through it, which never works. Right. Um, only only hurts.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:03

Um versus then, well, how do you know then if if what is in front of you is really an open door from the Lord? Yeah. So yeah, we want to talk about that. Welcome to the Midweek Motivation Podcast, where we bring practical help for your faith and life. Here's today's episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Wow, that's a really great thing to point out specifically is motive behind what it is that's like asking us to step forward. Is it our own desire or is it God's will? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:28

And I don't think those I I think my assumption is those are not in conflict um automatically. Automatically, you know, I mean I think sometimes we can get overly spiritual and go like, well, if it's my desire, it must be evil. Sure. No, not I mean, not at all. Like God's the one that gives us, you know, the his godly desires inside of us. Yeah. And so many of those things are, I think, from the Lord, but then it's the occasional um sinful or just maybe selfish or or maybe unnecessary thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah. You know what? I I don't we didn't actually talk about this, but you can you share a little bit about your own discernment? Because you've shared a little bit about how you've been excited about this idea of looking at another building or whatever, and then you stopped looking for a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 2:15

Oh okay, yeah. Okay, so let's yeah, let's zoom out and we'll back up a little bit. Um so we're talking about discernment. Really, we're talking about discerning how to discern if a door is open. And and we've got, I think the team's gonna put a graphic up on the screen that gives everybody a sense of what we're talking about. Um and in my life, many times I have again painted the thing on the wall and and that. And I feel like what we're talking about now as a church is the time is now, it's our opportunity to uh pursue a bigger building and a bigger property. And there's a lot of reasons behind that. And it's and again, this is now a season where we we believe we're looking at all these little check marks going like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. It seems like the Lord has led us that way. But for years, I've also been a bit of a nervous Nelly about, you know, what if we need a bigger space? Um I kind of I kind of want our area to experience so much gospel that all the churches need bigger spaces, you know, that the Lord really does a work that's measurable in our community. And so we want to be a part of that. And so almost like prompting that myself in some ways, and not every time, but there, I'm sure there are many times that I was just the one out there looking for a building. And I had realtors, I've always I like real estate as a thing that I'm interested in.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:32

So I've always had connections with realtors and and I've uh almost always have had buildings come into my inbox that somebody's out there fishing, you know, going like, hey, what about this? What about this? What about this, you know? And so then sometimes I would grab a staff member or two and drag them on a little field trip, be like, hey, what do you think? And sometimes it's been like, hey, everybody, let's go look at this. Um and uh for some reason, more recently, even though we as a church had been experiencing a bit of a growth trend over the last five, six years, consistently 20 to 30 percent growth every year, which is a lot incredible.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

It's been fun to watch.

SPEAKER_06 4:05

It's been fun and challenging, and you know, we've we've needed more space often. Um, but there was this moment where I felt like the Lord was really saying, Stop, just stop. You're like antsie, just stop. And, you know, if I want to bring in a new building, I'm gonna bring a new building, but just stop. And yeah, in fact, we we really I felt led very much to go the other direction and and say, what about have we even for sure made the most use out of the space we have currently?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:36

So this is maybe a year and a half ago, and and I had this image of uh lime, and uh anybody listening to this that's super familiar with our church is gonna be like, oh, I remember the squeeze the lime thing. Because the image was you go to a taco shop and uh you go, give me two tacos, and they give you two tacos, but they only give you one lime wedge. Or worse, they give you three tacos and one lime wedge.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Right.

SPEAKER_06 4:55

And so you got to figure out, well, how am I gonna make sure that the lime juice goes over for all the two or three tacos and because you gotta squeeze it a little harder? And we were, we were like in a position going, that's what we are in right now, is we have to squeeze the lime. We gotta re-look at our service times. So we wiggled our service times around. We got to relook at uh, you know, how are we doing chairs in our auditorium? So we literally, we actually took the time to go in and re-engineer the chairs. We fit 20 or so, 25 more chairs on the floor. For somebody from a larger church, they're probably laughing, like, what in the world? That's a lot of time, a lot of intentionality for 20, 25 chairs. But we're like, let's be faithful over the little bit, because then Jesus goes, if you're faithful over a little, I'm gonna make you faithful over more.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 5:34

Right. So stewardship on them.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:36

Um so at any rate, we just said, whatever. If the Lord wants to bring us more, more space, he'll do it. In the meantime, let's make the most of the space we have. And so we did the chaired thing, the service time thing. We added a fourth service and wasn't even thinking about another property. And then it came.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:55

You know, and it came to us. So this is December of 2025, so pretty recently. And um I thought that was so interesting. You know, it's all it reminds me of like that. Uh I've talked, I've walked so many people through men and women, the question, like, when is God gonna finally bring me a spouse? Yeah. You know, they're because they're like, hey, I really saw in my future, I really saw marriage in my future.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Right.

SPEAKER_06 6:20

And it just hasn't happened. And it's kind of like, gosh, when is it gonna happen? And often my advice to them has been when you stop wanting it so bad.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Right.

SPEAKER_06 6:27

You know, when when that stops becoming your focus, and your focus can shift toward the Lord and waiting on him and his timing and and knowing that you you you it's not gonna take away your desire, but you're submitting that and surrendering that to the the lordship of God in your life. And and it this was sort of that look in the mirror, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, you know, it's almost like if it's almost like those desires can become an idol to us and more important than God. And so we've got to submit them and surrender. So that's cool. Yeah, very biblical.

SPEAKER_06 6:57

Yeah. So now all of a sudden, you know, this opportunity has come and it's forced us to ask a lot of questions. Yeah, it's forced us to communicate a lot to our church and to really seek the clarity together on is this an open door or is the because what we were all aware of in the beginning is this is either the greatest opportunity or the worst distraction possible. Yeah. And we need to know which one it is.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Awesome. I love it. Well, so then on Sunday, you you kind of directed us through what the process um that you've discerned through through scripture is of determining that. So should we jump into it?

SPEAKER_06 7:32

Let's jump into it. Yeah, we started off with uh the word, you know, the word of God. And you know, I think the big principle here is um that God's will never contradicts God's word. And you know, a lot of times at least in my own life, um and I suppose in lots of conversations I've had with the people, that has been overlooked. You know, to go, well, I'm just assuming that God wants things that make me happy.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:03

And then you go, wait a second, the Bible actually teaches about this. And so if it's it's teaching against this, then it's clearly a no. I mean, you it's shut it down right there. If it doesn't pass the first test, uh then it it you don't pass go. You know, and I think that's really important. Um and I can remember lots of times in my like I was thinking about parenting because this because this uh concept I think relates to so many aspects of life where it's not just about big corporate decisions for a church, but it's even more so, I think, relevant as an individual. How do I know if something in front of me is an open door or is a distraction?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

I agree.

SPEAKER_06 8:43

And so, like sometimes parenting decisions, uh, which you know, we've got three adult children, we've had plenty of parenting decisions, big ones. I remember one where we were like, do we send our kids to public school or private school? That was a huge decision for us. And it and it and we knew that it wasn't like the Bible says send your kids to private school or or public. It doesn't, you know, God doesn't specifically address that wholeheartedly. So you then you gotta zoom out to principles. What does God's word say about principles on that? And um but even that wasn't quite enough to tell us which way to go on that. So we had to go to other aspects of that.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

That's so yeah. I I'll I mean I love that that you call that out specifically because um I know for myself when I've tried to discern whether or not something was the right move, I'd go to the Bible. And it doesn't just spell everything out like step one, step two, step three. There's like it it it gives you principles, like a wide overview to to review and to check out to make sure that you can align with it. Right. But I think it leaves enough space for us to um be able to go in and make some decisions, knowing, you know, whether or not we can fall in line, um, but having enough flexibility for it to actually uh like help us to make a decision in any given moment. I don't know if that clearly um makes sense, but like like uh one of for me, one of the big moments where I was um trying to uh discern whether or not something was right or wrong was when I was preparing to to meet my husband. And I had had so many different um experiences and in relationship and examples of relationship where for five years I just I didn't date at all because I wanted to learn the right thing, you know, and unlearn the wrong things. Right. And that was all Bible learning. That was all like getting in groups and getting around people and and relearning all that stuff. What that looked like for me is gonna look different. It's gonna look different for somebody else, but the principles are gonna be the same and the individual decisions look different because they should, because we're individuals. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:57

And but I think when it goes to the Bible, then you go, like, well, what principles are there? And for dating, as an example, there are some really clear principles in the Bible. Like, don't be unequally yoked. Yeah. And what we often coach people is, okay, so what does that mean? Well, probably dating somebody that you don't intend to marry, that you wouldn't marry, it it's a waste of time for one thing, and it's also dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:19

Um, so what's the principle? Don't be unequally yoked, meaning marry somebody who shares your your values, marry somebody somebody who shares your faith in Jesus. Yep. Because if those things aren't there in a marriage, it is so, so, so difficult. Yeah. And um, you know, the Bible talks about partnership, then that that's unaligned. And so I think we can look at that and go, like, well, there is a really clear principle there. Yeah. But still, you go, okay, so let's paint that canvas and and go, okay, so inside of that, there's all these choices. Now I still have a million choices, right? So now what's the open door? Yeah. And that's where sometimes you, you know, it's it's more than one filter.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah. Yeah. Does that take us to the next thing, you think? Sure.

SPEAKER_06 12:02

Yeah, the next one is spirit. Yeah, so it's the Holy Spirit. And um, this is this is really about conviction. You know, Jesus talks about um, well, like whereas Psalm 119-105 in the in the Bible says, you know, I've hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. Or no, it says your word is a lamp to my feet and the light to my path. And then a later verse says, I've hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. And so that's the word piece, but the spirit piece, I think, is is that conviction because Jesus said in John 16, he's like, I'm gonna send you my spirit, yeah, and he's going to convict you of sin and righteousness and judgment. And he's like gonna be your comforter, your counselor, your advocate, your guide. He's gonna teach you all things that I've given to you. So like he's he's presenting the Holy Spirit as uh the living embodiment of Jesus' presence that goes with us now. It's it's not the same as the Word of God, right? Because the Word of God is written for our instruction. And it's like the Spirit is our companion now, walking that out. And what I've experienced a lot of times, and I'm sure you have too, is either the confirmation that something is the right direction or the conviction that something is the wrong direction. And sometimes the conviction is super heavy, especially if you've already started off on a path and he's going back up, back up, back up, or get out of that fast. And um, you have that dissonance, you know, that inside dissonance that you have when you know something that you're doing is not in line with scripture, or it could be something that you're leaving out, right? So it's commission or omission, like you're either committing something or leaving something out, and the spirit is saying, This is the direction for you, and you're not in line with that, and you have this dissonance, which that's that's what keep keeps you up at night. Yep. You know, you're like that's the absence of peace, is that dissonance that goes, I'm two people right now. Yeah, you know, I know one thing, I'm doing a different thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

It is the the thing that says, I don't like the life that I'm building right now with my daughter, so I need to figure out what the right thing is, and so I'm gonna go dive in and and learn and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. That dissonance, that disease disease, I think this ease, yeah. Yeah, I think that um for me personally, I love the Holy Spirit because I love that that feeling in me directs me in the way the Holy Spirit's my BFF.

SPEAKER_06 14:23

Yeah, and I suppose it'd be really hard if I didn't if I was a non-believing person, I just you know, somebody who's looking at Christianity from the outside, this might be a really difficult thing for me to get my mind around. I was like, the Holy Spirit, what do you mean? Like, so what does he look like? Well, yeah, you can't really see him, you know? What does he sound like? Well, you know, he doesn't really speak audibly to me. Um, but there's that sense that uh it's almost I think of it, I actually picture the Holy Spirit like a rudder. Like I'm a boat and he's the rudder, and so he's directing me. And so a lot of times I'm I've found myself in life like rowing against the direction that the boat's actually he's trying to steer, and I'm like rowing it the other direction. And and that is exhausting. Exhausting current. So I think like you can kind of tell if you're going against the Holy Spirit's current, yeah. Um, if you're just working so hard. And that's what that's what probably for me, going back to that building thing. Yeah, I can kind of look at that and go like, wow, how many times did I try to open a door? Yeah. And I'm not saying I was off my rock or or being sinful, but I just something in me relaxed when I just heard God say, just chill out. If I wanted to bring you a building, I know how to do that.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:36

And then, you know, just a couple of months later, um, something that was better than anything I would have ever actually imagined just came to us.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

That's awesome. That's incredible. I love that. Um, I've I've shared this a couple couple of times. I think I actually shared this in our last midweek motivation, but I um read a book called Ragged. And in the book, the author says that the word of God is actually the vocabulary of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

That's really good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

So so the Holy Spirit working in me now that I have the word of God in me more, like when I'm working against the current of the whole of where God's taking me, scripture will pop into my head. And it didn't used to happen, but it does now all the time. So it points back to getting the word in your heart and in your head.

SPEAKER_06 16:23

Yeah, those are yeah, probably like these two, I think might be you know, basic, basic, basics, like almost permission to play in the sense of knowing how to walk with the Lord is if you try to do that without the word, and and by that I think we both do this, but the it's not just you know, it's not just you getting into the word, it's getting the word into you. Yep. And I think that just takes time. It takes a lot of time and a lot of exposure. I agree. And you know, even they say that the law of seven is like a marketing principle where you don't even really hear something until you've seen it seven times, it doesn't even sink in. So advertisers are all like, hey, I gotta get this in front of you seven times. And now they're saying maybe it's the law of 14 because we're seeing more things. Well, then what it's the same with the Bible. Like, if we're not constantly exposing ourselves to scripture, um, it's not gonna be the automatic, it's not gonna be the reflex, right? You know, in those situations to remind us that's so good, the vocabulary of the Holy Spirit. I love that. And the same with the Spirit is like if we're not engaging with the Holy Spirit, which I'd love to ask you the question, how do you engage with the Holy Spirit to really to really walk this stuff out?

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Um, I think that it took a minute for I think it's understanding who who the Holy Spirit is and what the Holy Spirit's job is that clarified stuff from me. So I understand now that the Holy Spirit is like you said, it's Jesus with us and in us right now, right? Like to me, it's the closest relationship um of like with God that you can possibly have because the the Holy Spirit is in us, right? Knows every dark corner, every bright spot in me. So understanding that and what his job is is number one important. Number two, um, the way that I engage with him now is when I'm hanging out and like putting my makeup on in the morning and I'm thinking through just like the the reel of thoughts that's going on in my head all the time. Instead of doing that in a vacuum with myself, I do it with God now. Oh wow, and that's with the Holy Spirit. And I'm not perfect, almost like prayer time.

SPEAKER_06 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Yeah, yeah. But it's a it's like a conversation, regular engagement that I have with another person, but it's with God.

SPEAKER_05 18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

And so many times, like I'm thinking through something, and all of a sudden something will pop into my head that is an answer to an angst or a struggle or something, and that's how I know that it's God because that didn't come for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:52

Wow, that's very cool. Yeah, I think I probably do this, and people that are familiar with our church probably hear me say this all the time a lot through journaling. Uh, I just for me, that's a really good way, um, at least to kickstart this stuff. And then sometimes I find myself just in uh a few minutes of real absolute silence. That's me, and I'm just and I'm literally just kind of listening, you know. And I picture, I sort of picture this like silence and then this wind picking up, and and then I just kind of sense that like okay, he's he's showing me something, and then I'll actually see pi I see pictures. So this is sort of how God really, really clearly shows me things as pictures, like like the like the lime, honestly. Um I see a lot of pictures, and so a lot of times I'm journaling, I'm like, I I I'm seeing this and that is a confirmation to me, you know, and then I'm going back, is this biblical? Yeah, because it better be financing confirmation, yeah. And then so you kind of work this wheel, but having um your own style, I think, is really important. Okay. The point is that the Holy Spirit is there to walk us through um the the outworking of God's will in our lives.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Yeah, yeah. That's good stuff. I think uh like I like walking away with something something practical, and the idea of the Holy Spirit is something that's so hard to wrap your brain around. Do you have any suggestions for how to get started in this?

SPEAKER_06 20:14

That's a great question. Um I think I think honestly, find a mentor who's got some experience with this and and bounce your questions off them would be a really good start. Uh, I think of people in our church who's who've really helped me in this over the years. And you know, it's always weird as like a pastor going like, can can some can somebody teach me more about the Holy Spirit? I actually love it.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

It's to have a PhD in this, but it's uh a refreshing and like you know, helps I think it helps other people to connect to the fact that it doesn't matter if you're a pastor or what what you're doing.

SPEAKER_06 20:48

Yeah, nobody's got the corner on the Holy Spirit. So when you find somebody that you you go, wait, they seem to, and how do I know? Because I can see them being so tuned in. And what I see with people who are really tuned into the Holy Spirit is they know how to pivot in a moment to what God is actually doing instead of instead of what their agenda was. So it almost like somebody prayed the other day and they put this on Instagram. I thought I loved it. They said, God, give me a schedule that's interruptible.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:14

And I was like, ugh, that's very convicting.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:18

Because I like I love my schedule once I work it out in the morning, you know, because I actually because I actually feel like, wait, I prayed as I was building that schedule, so nobody better mess it up, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Me and God, we got this.

SPEAKER_06 21:30

And God, you I think we already got this, right? Like you're not gonna change this, right? And then he changes at midday, you know, like, oh man. But I love that when I watch somebody who has that in a moment's notice pivots, and then they're like meeting a need or like or like they're sharing an encouragement that's so important to somebody. Those moments are so where you go, like, okay, can I ask you some questions? And I think if you see somebody like that, ask them some questions. They're probably carrying a little more peace in their life than than you are, yeah, and um, and a little more power so. Sometimes. Yeah. Okay. Boldness. Get boldness. Like get those people around you. I think that'd be a that's probably how I would do it.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Cool. I like it.

SPEAKER_06 22:07

Third one is counsel.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I love this one. It's my favorite.

SPEAKER_06 22:12

Yeah, I hate it. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Community is my jam. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_06 22:18

It is, it is really, it is really important. Yeah. And and some people only have um like the community of peers.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:28

And that's powerful, but it's not enough. No, definitely not. You got any advice on that?

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Well, we have uh a uh imagery that we use at Westside a lot, that whole hand forward, hand back idea. And what that is, is you're grabbing the hold of a hold of the hand of somebody who's gone before you, maybe just a little bit before you, but they've got something they that they can teach you. And then the it's just important just as important for you to reach back so that you can pay it forward, I guess, maybe not be a broken link in the chain, as Steve Barker says. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 23:03

It's a great powerful, yeah, it's a really powerful imagery. Yeah. It's good stuff. Another thing I've heard before is um everybody needs a Paul, everybody needs a Barnabas, and everybody needs a Timothy. That's a little bit insider language to the New Testament, if that's not familiar, that Paul's like the mentor, Barnabas is like the friend, Timothy's like the protege. And everybody needs those people in their lives. Um, because there is power in having somebody that you're teaching, and um, but also obviously a friend who knows what you're going through, and then a and then a counselor who's been there.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:33

So having a counsel, super important. Like for me personally, I have a board that I'm accountable to as the pastor of church. So I'm not like some rogue leader that could just do whatever I want. I have report to a group of people who could fire me on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:45

And I and I need that in my life, and we all need that in our life.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

I agree.

SPEAKER_06 23:48

Um, so I think the counsel piece, you know, Proverbs says don't go to war without a lot of counsel. Um, first Chronicles 12, 32 says the men of Issachar understood the times and they knew what they should do. And so having people in your life that understand the times and know what should be done, and then bouncing these things off of them.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:11

Like, yeah. So, like for us, okay, back to the uh kids going to school thing. Which school did we put our kids in? We had some friends that had made a bold move, and we were like, really? And so we took them to dinner, or actually, I think they invited us over to their house, and we went over and we just sat there and talked. It was John and Jennifer Garrick, um, some great friends. They m someone someone they who knows, they might be hearing this. Um, but they had taken their kids and put them in the public schools nearest to their home so that their kids could be like missionaries in the school. And they were like, now here's the thing, because I'm all for public schools. I basically grew up in public schools, but I also know that um I my kids are gonna find things that are non-biblical, you know, they're gonna run into all sorts of different viewpoints in a public school setting. And as time has gone by, it's gotten more and more prolific in that way.

SPEAKER_05 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:02

But they said, um, here's what we would advise you is if you do that, you have to go with them. Like, so you need to be at the school as often as you can. So he goes, I, this is what he said, and I copied him 100%. He goes, I go to lunch with my kids once a month, and I go to the cafeteria where they are eating lunch, so I can sit at the table with their friends that they know, so I can know who they're talking to. And so that their friends can see that they have a dad that loves their child, and and then I also go out on the playground with them and I see how the kids are interacting, and then he said, and I also try to volunteer at the school. So I literally just copied what he said just to the T. So I was on the site council at the elementary school, and I did the cafeteria and the playground thing, but that was only once a month for me. My wife uh listened to what Jennifer said and is like, okay, more involvement. So she's now, you know, as we had three kids in public school, she's like in three different classrooms a week, um, you know, serving in the office, making copies, talking to the principal, you know, all of that because what they said was, you know, every kid deserves to have parents who were highly involved in their life, and that's a a price you're gonna pay if you want to have your kids in public school and um still shepherd them well. So for us, they were the counsel for us in that decision, and we need we had no idea what to do until we talked to them, and it was like click, that totally makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Wow, that's incredible. Very cool. Um how do you find the people?

SPEAKER_06 26:38

That's a great question. Um and I know you are one of the, you know, you're you're your level of this is advanced. Like you've done a great job building community in your own life. And I think uh where we actually found John and Jennifer was um we were supporting them. They were one of our mission project partners because they were leading an organization that called Eternal Impact that we were supporting at the time. And uh we had asked John to come speak at a men's retreat. Okay, and so we started getting to know each other a little bit, and then we were like, Oh, our kids are you know a little bit younger than yours, and you know, we felt like we had a lot in common. So we started hanging out, having coffee and stuff, and then we had this question, we're like, we should ask John and Jennifer, you know, because we know that we've we've seen them a little bit, and so we just asked, like, can we talk to you guys about this?

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Awesome.

SPEAKER_06 27:27

Um, and that's where we really started getting to know them better as a couple, yeah. And you know, because so we we kind of knew enough about them that we we liked the direction their life was going.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:36

We agreed with that, and we could we wanted to see ourselves where they were. And so that's why we asked them.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Awesome. I love it. I think that I think we do have to be really intentional about the people that we pick to be our counselors. Um, yeah, that which is really why I kind of asked that question. Yeah. I think um one of the the struggles that I've had, especially in my young years, was trying to tap into really peers, but people who didn't necessarily um have the maturity or the um the same trajectory that I wanted to go in.

SPEAKER_05 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

And I think that we can get into a space where we really just want people to tell us what we want to be in. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:19

Well, that's a good point. Because if you're not being challenged on your direction, you probably don't have the right counsel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even like, for instance, in this in this move that we're making, uh, we believe God's leading us to to move locations as a church. Big, I mean, and that's a huge deal. Holy smokes.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 28:36

And you would, you know, because I've I've been there is unity here on that. Um, however, I also have a board who's poked plenty of holes in it. And I actually had somebody come up to me the other day and said, um, you know, he's not on the board, but he's he's involved in leadership, and he said, Hey, can I ask you a question? I was like, sure. He goes, Who's poking holes in your plan? And I was like, Why? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but no, he had some really good questions. Yeah. And and and his questions have actually sharpened our approach.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:05

We slowed it down to actually take those questions and and go to our realtor and to you know, the people that are working, like a lawyer, and go like, okay, I don't like slowing down for anything, but I don't want to put ourselves in a position where we're we're vulnerable or we make a mistake.

SPEAKER_05 29:22

Right.

SPEAKER_06 29:22

And so, you know, we we we definitely slow down. So like counselors should make you irritated. If they're if they are worth their weight, you know, they should they should irritate you a little bit to go like, why are you messing with my plan?

SPEAKER_02 29:35

I like it. I've gotten to the point. I've I have a uh friend who is this for me, and we've been friends for over 20 years. And uh the other day she was holding me accountable to something that I said. I because I'm retirement planning and I've been a little obsessive about it lately.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

And she's like I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

But she, you know, I've been telling her all the things that I'm going through and uh like what what my focus has been on and she and how I don't really feel like it's healthy anymore. And so uh week after this conversation, I went back and I started telling her about some stuff that I was doing, and she's like, hey, I thought we said you were gonna do this and this and this. And it actually brought me like joy to hear that. Yeah. Okay. I think I've gotten to the point and am so intentional about finding people who will hold me accountable to things. And so if what we say is, I don't want this thing to be an idol, I want God to be lead. Like I want the people in my life to hold me accountable to that and to poke holes in my plans sometimes. That's how you know that they've they've got your back, you know?

SPEAKER_06 30:42

It's uh so true. Yeah, because because we can we've all gotten ourselves in situations we wish we wouldn't have. Yeah. And if we just maybe in those cases had a little more time to listen to wise people.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Thank God for those wise people in our life.

unknown 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:57

The fourth one is circumstances. This one's a little squishy, honestly, but I think it's important. And you know, you you look at like well, this is a good example in our church's history, the timing of watching all of these open doors. So uh just to share a couple of how you know, like circumstances that that confirm again. Maybe these are also um cumulative, I think. So you go, I think maybe the order matters to go word of God first. Sure. Because if it's not gonna align with the word, it's like don't even waste your time, right? But then word plus spirit, because sometimes you get the principles, but your exact situation isn't spelled out, and so then the spirit, and then it's counsel, so these are stacking, right? And then it's circumstances. And for us, like as we look back and evaluate this as a team, one of the things that happened was we didn't go after this, this came after us. So what happened was that somebody from the board of the church who was moving out of the space that we're now looking at called and said, Hey, I know you guys just added a fourth service on the weekend. I know your church has been growing. I know you are on the way to running out of space totally, and you need to know that this probably is gonna become available in this time frame here. And so you might want to check it out. So then that person gave me the phone number of the property manager. Um, and I don't know why, but I just felt like, well, let me just call it right now. I call, person answers right away. So direct right to the person. And yeah, and and you know, so it's like, well, that's kind of interesting, you know, just like that. It it just happened, like boom, boom, I'm talking with the person.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Yeah, you didn't even have to open the door, it was just open right now.

SPEAKER_06 32:41

It was open. And then I was like, I wonder if someday we could get, and they were like, just come over here right now, basically, and we're gonna walk you through. I was like, okay, we walk through, and it's just like one thing after another, that's the way this thing has come together. So much so that we've been looking for problems with it because the circumstances have been so favorable that we like, that almost seems too good to be true. And but so we can look back and go, you know, because you know when you have to really try to push something versus when you go, it's the the Lord is doing something.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Right.

SPEAKER_06 33:16

And I think that's where you can evaluate and go, is it the Lord doing the work, or is it me trying to generate something and and then and then go back and say, uh, you know, look what God did, even though it was me busting my tail behind the scenes, you know, without the favor of God. And you know, you know, I I think maybe picture it like we're we're in a boat, we're on the lake, and sometimes it's us, you know, blowing into the sail. And if you get enough people blowing into a sail, I suppose the boat might move, but but then there's when the the wind is really in the sail, and it's just undeniable that the circumstances are arranged by the Lord. I think that's when you go. Yeah, that's a confirmation.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

That's awesome.

unknown 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

A couple of pieces of scripture here.

SPEAKER_06 34:00

Yeah, I think um the Isaiah one is interesting, where in Isaiah 30 he says, Your own ears will hear him. Right behind you, a voice will say, This is the way you should go, whether to the right or to the left. So he's like, um I'm giving this. You know, this is like a gimme, I'm like giving it to you.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah. Wow, that's good stuff. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

I'm saying I'm trying to think of circumstances for myself. Um the the um this kind of pairs with counsel, I think, in a way. Um, circumstances being favorable. And I think as like as we move through these, I think that this speaks to the compounding of it, but I've heard of friends who are like, yeah, I know if I get confirmation three times in a row, like that's just the pattern that I know that that's the right direction. Um for me, going back and thinking about um uh marriage and and meeting my husband, like I spent five years not dating, and then all of a sudden I'm sitting in a group and feel like uh something lifts and and God just say, Okay, it's all it's cool for you to start dating. And then the next week my best friend introduced me to my husband. You know, I'm like, yeah, okay. You know, those types of things, I think.

SPEAKER_06 35:18

Yeah, that's really good. That's a great example. Yeah. Yeah, because it's um it's easy to chase something, uh-huh. Yeah, but then when you surrender it and the Lord brings you something, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Yeah, yeah. So, so then you go back to those ideas where circumstances don't necessarily uh like things aren't opening, like doors aren't just automatically opening opening, but you're having to work at a little at a little bit. Like there are certain like circumstances in which God is actually leading you through that process. So if we're widening the scope and just talking about how to discern, sometimes you do have to work through circumstances where God's trying to strengthen you or teach you something.

SPEAKER_06 35:59

No doubt about it. Yeah, and I do I do fear sometimes that in saying this, we're like going, if you have to work hard at it, it can't be God's will. That is so not true, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah, and I like I've leaned into that in my spiritual immaturity so much as a young person in faith. I'm like, oh, I've like this is a closed door for sure. Like this isn't what God wants me to do. And that's that's not always the case for sure.

SPEAKER_06 36:22

Yeah, true. Well, even in uh the passage that we taught from on on the weekend, yeah, Joshua chapter three, uh, you know, the Israelites crossing the Jordan River was our example of you know, similar, kind of parallel to what we're facing right now, is that you know, that was much more dramatic, but we're looking at moving to a new space, and they were crossing the Jordan River to go to the promised land. And so if you think about all the work that was in it for them, not only the work, but also the initial risk was on them because he's like, go, you know, stand uh at the edge of the river of the priests with the ark and put your, you got to put your foot in the river first. And so we almost see the principle that he's gonna do the miracle, but he's gonna require us to take the first step.

SPEAKER_05 37:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:02

And I definitely see that principle in scripture a lot, where uh whether it be um, you know, one of the apostles are gonna pray for somebody, or like Paul, in this weird passage in the New Testament, Paul had to lay down on top of a of a person, like stretch himself out on top of a person, and then they came back to life. You see this miracle happen. Or uh the lady uh had to actually reach out and touch Jesus' robe. You know, there's a risk involved usually that he's asking us to take a step of faith, and sometimes that step of faith is 10 years of hard work, or you know, it could be lots of things. Um, you got the lady with the jar who had to make uh make the prophet, you know, the the last use the last bit of oil and and flour to give it to the prophet, even though her and her son were starving.

SPEAKER_05 37:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:50

And that was their work and their risk. And then God goes, now you're never gonna run out of oil, you know, you're and all of that. And you know, I think we can't we can't over, we can't misuse this one. Right. It's easy to misuse.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Yeah. Yeah. And and let it be an excuse to not take a step forward a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 38:08

And I think the other uh caution on this one is don't look at circumstances that seem favorable and just assume it's God's will without running it through the filters. Yeah. That's a big mistake that we've all made is to go, oh, look at this. This is God must be open to this door because the circumstances are aligned, yeah, even though it's directly in opposed to the to the word of God.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah. There's a reason why it's number four on the list. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. Okay, well, the last one.

SPEAKER_06 38:34

Should we wrap up?

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:35

Spiritual unity, spiritual unity, spiritual unity. Um, this is really that sense, and I think this only works for people who are part of community. And that might be why, if you're not part of community, you're never as sure as you want to be about the things that God is leading you to. Because you've got counsel, that's a little different, but this is this is more about that sense that when you're doing something together, um, that it's the thing that God has opened the door for. And so I definitely think this requires us to have a little more time. And maybe that's why it's here is so that God can slow us down just a little bit more before we make big moves or big decisions. And to go, do we do we agree? Are we in one accord? That's like what scripture talks about, one accord. Jesus prays in John 17, and he's like, Oh, I want them to be one as we are one Father, you know? And he's like, when they're one, the whole world's gonna know you sent me and how important that unity is. And um, so in our in our church situation, we've really s tried to slow this down, and it's been about lots and lots and lots of conversations and lots of opportunity for feedback from peers, from all, you know, and and we're talking about like now as a body.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:46

Um in Ephesians 4, it talks about make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace. And you know, this is this is the collective sense of do we do we all have the the confirmation of the word and the spirit and the counsel and the circumstances? And do we all see that? Because this is a really big move that's gonna require all of us to participate, right? With our time, talent, and treasure. So we all believe in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Yeah, do we all believe in it?

SPEAKER_06 40:14

And I mean, again, I think this could be misused too, because you could go like, well, nope, two or three people don't think it's the right thing, so it can't. I mean, I think we gotta use common sense with that.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 40:23

Um, as well. Because you know, and and then it might even be well, why? Why do two or three people not agree with this?

SPEAKER_02 40:30

That's the I think that's the kicker right there, is to be able to investigate because it it kind of goes back to the whole idea of people poking holes in the plan. Like uh we have great unity. I sense that as well in this whole move, but that doesn't mean that people aren't asking questions. It doesn't like there this isn't just blind following. Right. You know, it's it's every part of the body doing its job to really discern, right?

SPEAKER_05 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

And so at the end of that, which I think that I agree, that's probably why the time is so important because it gives each part of the body time to do its job, you know.

SPEAKER_05 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

And then at the at the end, like even in those places where maybe some of us might have reservations, we're s we're in it, you know, as a a body. So it's great.

SPEAKER_06 41:18

Yeah. Maybe back to the kids in the school situation, I think maybe the word would apply there if if anybody's facing a a you know, a personal kind of open or closed door question is like as parents, we could say we want our kids to go to public school, but did we did we talk to the kids about it? And how they feel about that, you know, or vice versa, if we're gonna move them to schools, you know, like have we prayerfully pursued this as a whole family so that we're all moving this direction together, rather than just, you know, a mom and a dad going like boom, this is what we're gonna do. That's where we see kids start to feel, you know, disconnected, and sometimes that leads to rebellion or to hard relationships, you know. Right. But the same could be true of a workplace or um a church or whatever, is is like, well, can we figure out how to march together? Because that's and when we see all five of these things line up, oh my goodness. Then then it's like, man, I think we're supposed to go this way.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Right, right. Um, I I was listening to an actress tell a story about how she finds and she's a believer about how she finds the right thing. And she says, she goes, I pray about it and I run for it. So I pray and I run toward it. And I know that if I'm praying about it and I run toward it and I don't get it, then I've done everything that I can. And I know that if I'm praying about it and I run toward it and I do get it, then it God's hand was in it. I like I see that with the body of Christ, you know, when we're all in it together and we're all invested and we're all praying together, which is how we started, was just like covering this thing in prayer. And then, you know, we're all running together. I think that whatever happens at the end of that um can only be what God wanted to happen.

unknown 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:00

Don't you think? Well, let's hope so, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:04

Yeah. Well, we hope that uh anybody who's out there facing any decisions that this could be a useful tool to just go, oh, yeah, let's let's look at it through this lens because it's it's definitely there's layers here.

SPEAKER_05 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:15

And it so it's not a quick thing to go, let me really discern the direction of the Lord in my life. If it's an important decision, it's worth the time.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Yeah, good stuff. Well, thanks for breaking all this stuff down. I always love your teaching. I think that you're you're great at it, and I always learn so much much. So thanks for breaking this down and and walking us through this.

SPEAKER_06 43:34

Yeah, glad to be with everybody.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Cool. All right, guys. Well, um, thanks for joining us, and we'll catch you next week on Midweek Motivation.

SPEAKER_06 43:42

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Midweek Motivation. To make sure you don't miss any content in the future, please subscribe, share. And if you enjoyed this, give us a like and consider popping by a Westside service some weekend. You can find out more at Westside Community Church.com.