Westside Podcast

Can You Actually Trust the Bible? The Manuscripts, the "Mistakes" & the Canon

• Westside Community Church

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What if the most questioned book in history is also the most reliable? This week Jess sits down with Pastor Gabe for a follow-up to Sunday's message — a no-holds-barred FAQ on how we actually got the Bible, why there are so many translations, and whether you can really trust what's in your hands.

Discover:

  • Why there are so many Bible translations — and why you shouldn't pick just one
  • Word-for-word vs. meaning-for-meaning (verbal vs. dynamic equivalence) explained simply
  • What "God-breathed" really means — did God dictate every word, or something more?
  • The difference between the Holy Spirit being with you and in you
  • How the early church councils decided what counted as Scripture
  • How the Bible's manuscript evidence compares to other ancient documents
  • The different types of writing in the Bible (and why mixing them up trips people up)
  • How to choose a trustworthy study Bible — and the red flag to watch for
  • Where to actually start reading if you're new or starting over

Reflection: Faith was never meant to be fragile. The questions you've been afraid to ask — about copies, councils, and contradictions — aren't threats to your faith; they're an invitation to go deeper. As Gabe puts it, there's no end to the depth you can go with Jesus, and you're meant to feel pulled along, not overwhelmed. Whether you're a lifelong reader or cracking it open for the first time, the goal isn't just believing the right things about the Bible — it's getting God's Word into your heart, where transformation actually happens.

Key Takeaways:

  • Use multiple translations as different lenses — together they give you a fuller picture
  • A proverb is generally true; it's not a personal guarantee — read each book for what it is
  • The reliability of Scripture isn't built on blind faith — it's backed by manuscript evidence
  • A good study Bible names its translation team; if you can't find the scholars, that's a red flag
  • Start with John, then go back to Genesis — get on a reading plan, and don't do it alone

Question for you to think about: What price have you paid for what you believe — and would it hold up under pressure?

Calls to Action: If this gave you something to chew on, like this video, drop your own Bible questions in the comments, and share it with someone who's wrestling with doubt. New here? Subscribe so you never miss an episode — and come visit us some weekend at Westside.

Hashtags: #MidweekMotivation #WestsideCommunityChurch #Bible #BibleStudy #CanYouTrustTheBible #Christianity #Faith #BibleTranslations #HowWeGotTheBible #ChristianPodcast #Apologetics #Scripture #FaithJourney #Jesus

SPEAKER_05

Hey guys, welcome to this week's Midweek Motivation. My name is Jess, and we've got Gabe with us today.

SPEAKER_03

It's great to see you guys.

SPEAKER_05

Wood, wood.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for inviting me in. We're having a little nerdfest here.

SPEAKER_05

We totally agree.

SPEAKER_03

The books are everywhere.

SPEAKER_05

Like stacks of things behind us. Yeah. Yeah. We're jumping in to talk about the Bible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So like the making of frequently asked questions. And so it's a follow-up to Sunday, which was amazing. That was a really fun. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to the Midweek Motivation Podcast, where we bring practical help for your faith and life. Here's today's episode.

SPEAKER_05

You said that it uh during the message that you thought that maybe it felt like a little bit of a college course.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

But I thought, well, number one, I'm I might be biased, but I'm a little bit of a geek when it comes to this stuff, so I loved it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you like the deep dives.

SPEAKER_05

I do, I do. But I thought that you did a really great job of um, you know, just sharing it plainly so that it was understandable.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm glad. There were only like six or seven people fell asleep.

SPEAKER_05

Just kicking the chairs in front of us. Not a bad ratio. It was good. It was good. Yeah. So um I I've invited you to to join this week so that we could dive in a little bit deeper to some of the into some of the stuff that we talked about.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and this is like a blind thing because I don't even know what you're gonna ask me.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm kind of excited.

SPEAKER_05

I'm glad. Good. Not nervous at all.

SPEAKER_03

No.

unknown

Good.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. Well, so let's jump into the first question then, if you're ready. Yeah, what's what's the first question? Okay. So the first question that we have here is um why are there so many Bible translations? Which you um talked a little bit about.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how many languages there are in the world. Um, but I can tell you there are not enough Bible translations.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Because we're still trying to translate We're still trying to catch up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And every time every time we get closer, what happens is a language changes, right? So think about English as an example. And it's changing every day. You know, if you if you if you look at the dictionary online one day and look at it the next day, there are there are new words on there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And and so we all have to think about there's not just the languages that we translate the Bible into, but there's the evolution of those languages, which happens quite a lot, especially in more relaxed cultures like you know, like the Western world, yeah, where it's okay for language to evolve. Yeah. It wouldn't be the same in some cultures where it's going to be a little more more set. But there's just a there's a lot, there's a lot of people in this world and it's changing constantly. So that's one of the reasons why there's so many translations.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um but I think the other piece is maybe like the big picture would be if we just focused on English, because there are an unbelievable amount of English translations of the Bible. And then people are asking the question, well, which one should I use? That's we get that question a lot. And I was just explaining this after one of our services this last weekend because somebody had the real question. And the the thing that we all have to understand is there are kind of it's a spectrum, it's like a continuum. Um, Bible translations are a continuum. And it goes really between the far side of what's called verbal equivalence, meaning word for word. So if you if I said to you in you know in English, uh the cat is brown, and then you were gonna translate that into Spanish, you know, you know how it is. It might be brown is the cat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Right? And it's gonna be Google Translate. Right.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah. So there's word for word. In other words, you're taking a word in Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek, the three primary languages that the new that the Old Testament and the New Testament were written in, and you're going, what's that word and what's an English equivalent for it? And sometimes that might be one uh one word, might be two words, might be three words, but you're going like it needs to be word for word. Then that translation of the Bible is going to be a little choppier in the sense that it's not meant for readability, it's meant for reliability. So verbal equivalence is one end of that spectrum, and all the way other end is called dynamic equivalence, which means it's meaning for meaning. So you're going from caring more about the structure of the words to caring more about the delivery of the meaning. And so there's this kind of dance that all the versions have to do. And some of them land more on the verbal equivalence, like the English standard version is gonna be a little more on the verbal equivalence, whereas like the new living translation is gonna be kind of probably just past the middle of that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and then some of the others are gonna be all the way over at dynamic equivalence. And and so that's where you go, well, which one is more accurate? And it kind of depends. And I think in that for that reason, I don't think people should choose one Bible translation.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I agree actually. When you say it kind of depends, what like what's the dependency?

SPEAKER_03

Like what do you what do you think the Well, I mean, you could say it's gonna be more accurate to go word for word, but if you don't get the real But to get to the meaning, so it's it's you know, is it is it more accurate verbally? Yeah. Is it more accurate meaning-wise?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know. You know, so I think in uh in other words, having a a a variety of lenses to look at something through, it can be helpful.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, that makes sense. I like it. Awesome. I don't know if if this tracks or not. Um, but one of the the reasons why I like using different translations is for like a um we talk about text variancy, and I'm not sure if I understand text.

SPEAKER_03

Text like textual variance. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I'm not sure if I understand this correctly myself, but like all like it when you compare Bible verses, um, I will I use the Bible hub all the time, which you turned on. Bible hub.com. Everybody should use it. Yeah, it's amazing. And um I will have like a a question or I'll want some more understanding about on one specific verse, and so I'll click on it and I'll read all of the different translations of that one verse. Yep. And it helps me to um number one, know what words there isn't an exact translation for, uh-huh. And to be able to be able to get like a fuller picture of what that word means.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Is that what you mean by text?

SPEAKER_03

Not necessarily. I mean, a textual variant would really more um would really more refer to like the original language that the like the original manuscripts.

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03

And let's say it might be uh it might be a misspelled word in one and not another, it might be one word that's different in one than the other. And and you know, you you could zoom out and go, we're talking about copies, we're not talking about the original documents.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Uh what we believe in what scripture teaches is that all scripture is given by inspiration of God.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so that, and Proverbs 30, verse 5 says every word of God is flawless. And and so there's the there's the original transmission. Yeah. The first copy.

SPEAKER_05

The very first one.

SPEAKER_03

The very first one, yeah. Then there's all the copies, and we understand that, yes, of course, there was God's providence guiding all of that. But we can we can say, are there mistakes in those copies? Yes, obviously there are. We uh there's a bazillion of them, and they were done by humans. Yeah. So uh yes, there are mistakes, and we can get into that more, but that's really what textual variance is like. Okay. One says this, one says that, which one's right.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, cool. Let's get to we'll talk about that later. Okay, well, so um on Sunday, you talked about how the Bible is God breathed. So I I think that that's something that's really kind of like woo-woo, if you don't understand. Yeah. If you don't understand what that means. So um so the question here is like, did God like what is God breathed or inspired mean? Like, did God dictate, you know, what to say? Or like you kind of talked about that on today, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, like most of these issues, there's gonna be theories on which mode of inspiration did God use? Was it dictation or or was it more more free than that? Was it almost like the translations, was it verbal, you know, word for word, like this is exactly what I want you to write down, or was it this thought? And then the apostles would have their own personality, you know, woven into it. It seems that there was at least a little bit of that because of how different the the different New Testament letters or Old Testament books are, you know, from each other, even in just the style. So you've got you've got place and time and culture and things like that that actually you can have they come through. And so the personality of the person writing it down is it's part of it. You can you can see it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so I think again, I don't like to say this is what happened because I believe that there is a a reasonable range that it could be.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think everybody, you know, you if you really, really care, uh, do the research and and come to your own conclusion.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but I think that it's it's a it's a range where we know that at least at the very least, because here's what I think is behind all these questions is can I trust the Bible?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, is this reliable? Is this does this really still carry, you know, the the spiritual truth that uh Iowa want it to and that it claims to? And I think you could say yes, whether it was the word-for-word kind of inspiration, or that God, you know, gave that person a personality allowance, kind of so to speak.

SPEAKER_05

That kind of nudged them into what it was that he wanted to say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because the difference between the Ten Commandments, as I talked about on the weekend, and and scripture and the rest of scripture is that God wrote the Ten Commandments with his own finger, right? And then with the others, he breathed it, right, through a person. Yeah. And breathing, I think, is a metaphor for the Holy Spirit inspired those words. You know, and they wrote them down.

SPEAKER_05

I kind of uh equate it, and you can like redirect me if if you feel like that's necessary, but I kind of equate it to um you getting into the word and then standing up on Sunday and sharing what it is that you feel like God is, you know, wanting you to communicate to the church body. That's Holy Spirit led.

SPEAKER_03

And it's Holy Spirit led, it's not inspired, and it's not inspired inerrant and infallible, like scripture claims to be. Okay. You know, and so could I make a mistake? Yeah, I made a mistake on the weekend in um I I intentionally I did six different kinds of points, which I don't normally have that much content in a message, but I wanted to talk about how we got the Bible from from the very beginning to now. So I had six different uh you know parts of that process, and each one had like a passage of scripture, and then I wanted to use a different translation for each one. Um on one of them I listed the wrong translation. So then all of a sudden I'm like, okay, obviously I'm a human being. This is not inerrant.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I'm doing the best I can, you know. But the difference between that and scripture is no, no, no, you can like take this other one to the bank. Like the Bible itself, I believe with all my heart, and I would die for this, um, is inerrant, infallible, inspired.

SPEAKER_05

That's good stuff. I was kind of doing a little bit of diving into this myself and uh found some scripture that was interesting to me. Um, be just because it I feel like it it um reveals the transparency and like how seriously the um the apostles took this stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Like when you dive into um some of I'm like camped out in First Corinthians right now, and Paul is in there and he's like answering some questions that the Corinthians have asked, and he's like, This is from the Lord.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_05

And he's like, This I feel like is coming from wisdom that God's given me, but it's from me, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And so they they they took it real seriously.

SPEAKER_03

The the mantle of yeah, conveying that message, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then um, and then the other piece of scripture that I I um found was in John 14, and it's when Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit, and he's like, uh um, he's he's like, I'm here with you right now, and I'm giving you direct instruction. Right. And the instruction that I'm giving you is from God. When I'm gone, or from the Father, yeah, and when I'm gone, then I'm gonna give you the advocate, and he's gonna confirm what I've already told you, and he's gonna lead you into all truth. And it it almost feels like not necessarily a passing of the torch, but like a a uh I don't like I don't know how else to say it.

SPEAKER_03

Like the Holy Spirit's been here always, but um it's like a Yes, but um He's been with and not always in, right? Yeah So there were all these passages in in the Old Testament where the Holy Spirit would come upon someone, uh but in the New Testament, in the New Covenant, I should say, you know, when the the apostles were waiting in the upper room and Jesus said, Don't leave Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit comes. And then you see that Acts chapter two, the fire on their heads, and they're speaking in tongues and people are being healed, and it just goes crazy, right? Uh crazy in a good way. Um that's the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, right? So Ephesians talks so much about that. And then so the the difference then is that Jesus, yeah, Jesus was promising the gift of a permanently indwelling presence of God in our lives versus the come and go, because like in Psalm 51, even David had sinned, right, with Bathsheba. And so he says, Um, create in me a clean heart, and he goes through this thing and he says, Don't take your Holy Spirit from me. Well, the truth is that's an old covenant prayer.

SPEAKER_05

Because the Holy Spirit wants he's with you, he's not leaving, yeah. Yeah. Not with, in. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's good stuff. Yeah. So I don't know, it like it kind of to me that paints a picture of like uh clarity of the woo-woo. I don't know if that makes sense. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Like we're we're where in that case the spirit was in those apostles, like he's in you and I.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

And you know how they say it's not how much of the Holy Spirit you have, it's how much of you he has.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because you have a hundred percent of the Holy Spirit, how much of you does he have? And so they had you had to get to the place, and I think this is the real the real appreciation that I have for the apostles and those who were chosen by God to to do this work, to, to be that messenger, is that they had to be one hundred percent yielded right in that moment to the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Where there was no gap. And and I do believe that we can all have those times, those moments, uh, but you have to be so intentional to be in that place and and that that total that total oneness where he's got all of you in that moment. Yeah, and I think that's yeah.

SPEAKER_05

That's good stuff. Thanks for letting me share just my research.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, well, so question number four that I've got. Um you mentioned on Sunday that the early church had to decide what was actually scripture. Um, how did that work? Is there like some more clarity that we can have?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well I think it's really that was like the councils, and there were several, you know, over s over the centuries there were there were councils, several councils um that got together, and so it'd be um church fathers, it'd be you know important, respected leaders, um the the the scholars among them, um and they would evaluate scriptures. So they might be looking at a variety of letters as an example, and in their collection there would be some that they would look at and they would carefully consider on the the there were a f several criteria that they were using, um and some of those letters wouldn't have passed the test. And so those those are now considered, you know, extra biblical writings.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And when even when I say that though, there's some people that would say, no, they're not, because they're in my Bible.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so depending on your tradition, uh depending on your theological background and and and that, you might have a different view of that. But uh what we know about the sixty-six books that are in Scripture now is that 39 of them were the Old Testament that were the canon, it's called a canon, meaning a collection. So the canon of the Old Testament was fairly well decided by 400 BC, um, which then led the church in or the the people of Israel into their silent years where God did no more speaking for 400 years, and then Jesus was born. Um and then Jesus rises from the dead, the the Holy Spirit comes, the church is born, and a while into that, you know, letters start to be written that turned out to be scripture, as as attested by the councils who would say, Well, is it um is it consistent with the rest of what the sacred writings say? Um, you know, was it written by an apostle? Um so they had these criteria that were very, very rigid, and many of those letters then or those writings were not accepted as scripture, even though they're important still, and they can still shed light on our faith and maybe even some of the times that people were going through, some of the history, et cetera, but they're not held at the same s same esteem as scripture. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I was looking through um some scripture. I think one of the the questions that people have is is like, how is it that we can compare scripture to cons uh to scripture for you know reliability and authenticity? Right. But like if if we're looking at it from a historical perspective, if we're looking at it like it's a historical document, I think there is validity in that. And even just in scripture, you can tell what kind of scrutiny it is that they had on what was uh like esteemed, you might say, what was actual, like over and over they say like you need to test these things. Like when a uh scripture that I found, I think it's in first John, talks about how you gotta test a spirit.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_05

Right. Like, and if it says this, then it's not it like uh you know, it's not authentic, it's not something really that's reliable.

SPEAKER_03

Because so much of what gets uh uh what got a New Testament book into the New Testament is like eyewitness accounts, yeah. And things like that. So is so if you got some other writing that maybe says something about Jesus, like for instance, for example, like maybe was he married or something like that, which then none of the eyewitness accounts would have would have said. None of the you know, none of the other scripture would have said. Yeah. So then you've got to look at that and go, well, is this authentic?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so let's let's so that's one piece. Then what are the other are the other pieces in place?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good stuff. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

But I mean it to me, I'm I'm relieved when I think about the fact that let's say uh today, let's say somebody met with a small group of people that behind closed doors and and just made a huge decision um in kind of a vacuum and came out and be like, the this is the this is the Bible, you know, we'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, who else did you talk to? You know, and so that's why this takes this took them so long, hundreds of years. It wasn't done until 400 AD, really. Yeah, you know, where it was it was super clear and universally accepted this is scripture.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So what a journey.

SPEAKER_05

No kidding, yeah. You know what I love about it too is um just from the research that I've done this is the transparency piece of it. Yeah. Because you can actually go back and do your own research and look at the letters that were excluded from that. And and I think that it that it's um uh cool and I think it's fair to be like, well, like you can still look at them and they're you know valid for historical purposes and stuff. But um, I think that um that that transparency lays some of my like questioning to rest, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, there there aren't many secrets in all of this. It's it's all out there to find.

SPEAKER_05

You just gotta find it. Yeah, that's good stuff. Cool. Anything else that you would add?

SPEAKER_03

I was just thinking if somebody's really like maybe somebody's like, oh, I really want to do my own work on this.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We were actually just talking about before we pressed record here, we were just talking about a resource that's out there, it's new, it's called biblicaltraining.org.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And it's um been put together by a guy named Bill Mounts and a crew of people, and it's absolutely fantastic, top-notch quality resources training, right online, free. And just go to biblicaltraining.org, create a little account, it's free. You can take uh a course from Craig Blomberg, who's like the leading thinker on this, the leading scholar on this right now. Um he's got so many books on this, but he's teaching a course that you can take for free on the historicity of the New Testament. And just he would do so much better of a job than I ever will on this, but he's he's just right there for free. So available. Go get it.

SPEAKER_05

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, that like the that brings up a thought that I feel like is um uh important to talk about, and it's the why behind like why is it important to get the answers to these questions? Why is it important to do the work? And I think that the biggest um why is because of what the Bible claims to be. Yeah. Don't you think?

SPEAKER_03

Like it's uh well, yeah, I mean, because it's so preposterous, really, that you know, and it's it's why I I think honestly so many copycat, I would say copycat things have happened in history because it's so preposterous that who wouldn't want the power of saying, like, look, we have this, you know, this authoritative thing, and uh, you know. Um, but yeah, I think that's a big why. And I think then if you accept that with no processing, I just wonder how hard the world's gonna have to push on you or circumstances are gonna have to push on you until you just reject it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because sometimes it's like, what price did you pay for your beliefs? If there hasn't been a price for your beliefs, they probably aren't gonna hold up to storms and trials and you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So these guys went to they died for it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. They yeah. I mean, there's so much sacrifice in it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I think that's an important question is what what have you sacrificed for your own beliefs? Has there been any blood, sweat, and tears in it and and journey and struggle, you know, and research. And work and questions and going out and asking questions. And because there I think the world needs to know that um there is something solid to stand on.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. The truth, right? It claims to be the truth in a world that says everything is the truth. This it's yeah, it's good stuff. Okay. Well, so um let's see, you showed a slide. Next question. I did.

SPEAKER_03

I thought you might bring this up, so I brought this slide with you.

SPEAKER_05

Um uh comparing the Bible to the ancient historical documents, which this the first time that I'd been exposed to this information that was really shocking to me. Yeah. And I think really for me is because I didn't know how historical documents were um, like what the process was for historical documents to be considered authentic and true history, and you know. So this it blew my mind. Um can you go through that a little bit more? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I can take a crack at it. By the way, this is uh a graphic and and uh comes from Josh and Sean McDowell from Evidence that demands a verdict. This is from their updated version from 2017. And so it says comparing ancient manuscripts, and it's got like ancient work, what's the title of the ancient work, and then the earliest manuscript, and then the total manuscripts. And so a couple of things matter here. So it's got a list of like Tacitus' annals, Herodotus' His Herodotus' history, um, Sophocles' plays, Plato's Tetrologies, all these different ancient works that nobody debates the validity of. You know, these are like just universally accepted uh things that have shaped the world. And the what they say the gold standard of all these is the his Homer's Iliad, just because it had so many copies of it made. So we're looking at volume of manuscripts because then you can compare how accurate they are to one another.

SPEAKER_05

Sure.

SPEAKER_03

So the more manuscripts you have, the more comparisons you can do, then you can say, oh, this is really, really reliable. Look at all the, you know, we know what it said in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And uh if you only had two copies of something, you'd be like, well, it could be anything, right? We don't know. So total number of manuscripts really matters, but also the earliest manuscripts matter because if you let's say uh somebody That actually blows. Let's say we we write down what we say today, and then in a thousand years somebody finds a a copy that had just been made of what we said today. You'd be like, Well, that's a long ways away. And by then our names would be changed, you know, we'd be in living in a different state, you know, all this facts could be totally twisted. And so how close the the earliest manuscripts that we currently have are to the time they were written is a huge factor in how reliable are they.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so as an example, Tacitus' annals has thirty-six manuscripts available today. And the original work was done in 110 A.D., but the earliest manuscripts that we have are from 850 to 1050 A.D. So it's a gap of 750 years. So that's a long time for history to rewrite these things in and us maybe not to have even Tacitus' thoughts. And and yet no one would say that this is suspect, right? Right. Because it's Tacitus. Um and then you can just go down the list and find like Plato's Tetrologies as an example were written in the 400s BC, but the earliest manuscript we have is from the third century BC. So so that one's actually pretty close. So that's like within um what would be considered like almost a memorable lifetime. You know, somebody speculatively could be still alive who maybe heard Plato speak as a kid or something like that.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so so that's a bigger deal. And and there are 238 of those manuscripts. So you got more volume and closer to the original writings. The New Testament really is the best of both worlds because it's got five thousand eight hundred and fifty-six. We have five thousand eight hundred and six fifty-six total manuscripts of the New Testament.

SPEAKER_05

Of the entire New Testament.

SPEAKER_03

The entire New Testament, total manuscripts.

SPEAKER_05

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

And the which is which blows everything else just completely away. I mean, the closest thing is Homer's Iliad at 1900. And uh Homer's Iliad was written in about 800 BC, and the earliest ones we have are from 415 B. C. So there's a 400-year gap. The New Testament uh was written in the second half of the first century, all the way up to 95 AD, they think John might have written as late as ninety-five AD, Revelation. And the copy that we the copies that we have come from 125 AD. So that's only a 30-year gap between when it was written and the earliest manuscripts that we have. And so for sure, in that case, there were people still alive when those manuscripts were being circulated that witnessed some of the New Testament events. Just this like Jesus' ministry even, yeah. Yeah, maybe. I mean probably maybe not that early, but at least could have talked to the apostles, you know, and all of that. And so you can so the the validity of those things just skyrockets then because you know people died for those things. And and you don't die for a lie. Right. That's what Lee Strobel always, you know, was popularized by saying people wouldn't willingly die for a lie.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so I think that that really boosts above everything else. And I always say it's not even in the same universe of reliability as any other writing that's ever been written. Because look at the just look at the evidence.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I I was having a conversation with somebody about this very specific thing because it kind of blows my mind that um that those other documents that you um talk about aren't even questioned, and yet the Bible is so heavily. And I feel like it a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's a religious text. Um, but there are so many different types of writing that are found in the Bible.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Right? Like when we consider the makeup of it, which um I think is interesting to for two reasons. Um, number one, because if you don't know what it is that you're reading, it can be really confusing what you're reading. Um, that's the number one reason. We'll just leave it at that. So can you talk through that a little bit?

SPEAKER_03

Sure. I mean, um maybe generally, I might have to dust off my brain for a second on this. But I mean, you basically you have like in the I've got uh I've got a bunch of my Bibles here and you do too. We both just, you know, we don't carry these all around all the time. It's just fun to bring them out sometimes. Yeah. So you got history, you know, so think about Genesis as a historical book, right? Where it's it's a history book in the in the Bible. That's the function that it takes. Um you've got prophecy, uh, which would be like let's say um, let's say I'm getting to it here. Hang on, like Isaiah, right? So you got old, you you got prophecy, major and minor prophets in the Bible. Um, you got the writings, like Psalms, wisdom. It's called wisdom. Yeah like Psalms, Proverbs, Um, Job, you know, things like that. Uh you've got narrative or gospel in the New Testament. Um you've got Biography. Yeah, you got uh epistles or the some some people call that didactic, or it's just straight up teaching. Um apocalyptic, which would be revelation, you know, so there's different and they do all play a different role. So like for as an example, um sometimes people look at uh one of those categories and they apply the rules of a different category, and and so then that becomes a problem for them. Um but so a prophecy is not not doesn't function the same as, you know, a proverb or or or something like that. As an example, Proverbs gets I think gets misused sometimes because like I have always heard this a million times. Uh Proverbs 22, 6 says, train up a child in the way they should go, and when he is old or they are old, they won't depart from it. And sometimes parents look at that and they go like, okay, there it is guaranteed. If I just tell you what to do, you're never gonna you know, which so it's a proverb, it's not a promise. So it's generally true. That's what the word proverb means. It's it's a generally true. Okay. Uh so I think again, it's knowing some of those things about scripture that can help you relax a little bit about if you feel like, oh no, is scripture broken?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Understanding how to apply it is really important. Yeah. Yeah. So so that brings me to like all of these different types of Bibles that we have here. I don't know if uh uh I don't know, you've got some of your favorites. What you got, what do you got going on?

SPEAKER_03

What I got, I thought it would be fun. Well, I had some of these on uh the weekend at Westside. So I just have like I have a Swahili Bible that my friend in Kenya gave me when I went to visit. I have a German New Testament um that I can't read. I have my great-grandfather's Norwegian Bible, so it's got his little name etched in there, and you know, I just I love looking through this. Um I can't understand a single thing in there, but it's very I think it's very special. Yeah. Um I have I have my first uh kind of real Bible as a teenager that I that I used for study. It's a King James Bible, and um, you know, so it's old English and and I I'd love to talk for a minute about how different translations are based on different text families. And so um, you know, there's been there's been sort of iterations of translation, and archaeology changes that a lot because the more people have unearthed more manuscripts, uh it it gives more to go on, right?

SPEAKER_05

Like more context to meaning more context to go on.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, um, so we can get to that in a minute. But this is an NIV study Bible that I got in Bible college. It was funny because I was at a very conservative Bible college and uh and they really only used the King James Bible. This is for the first year of college. I didn't like it, I left, but um, but anyways, my roommate had an NIV uh study Bible, which had been given to him, but he kind of felt like he shouldn't have it because it wasn't the King James Bible. Yep. And I was like, I'll take it. So he gave it to me, and I said that's this. You're a rebel. Yeah, exactly. So bad. Um but I think it's kind of fun to look at the difference between uh how things are said. So, like for instance, um uh I'll just read John 3.16 from a few different versions because this is the this is where I think sometimes people go, see it's different. Well, that's just because it's looking at it from a different angle. It's not because the source material is any different. Um, but John 3.16 and the NIV says, this is the the older NIV says, for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life, right? That's that one. Um that's NIV.

SPEAKER_05

What's that? That one was NIV. That was NIV. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I've got the Greek New Testament, which I probably wouldn't be able to pronounce all correctly. Um, but it it, you know, if you look at it, my Greek is super dusty, super, super rickety. But uh I mean, but I can make out the words and I know what they mean, and it says the same thing. And you know, it just says it in a different order, though.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So it's like it's a different word order, but it's the same concepts. Yeah, words mean the same things.

SPEAKER_05

Well, this is word for word, then if it's Greek, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, it's the original. I mean that's actually what was written. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, um, and if we were to look at a translation, like if I were to go into Bible Hub and look up the Greek, yeah, then it would be word for word translation. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so then you can go to the Bible Hub interlinear thing and you can see Greek with English. Man, we're probably going way off the DP here. Sorry about that, guys. Um so here's here's something. This is interesting. This is called the Bible, a new translation by James Moffat.

SPEAKER_04

Oh.

SPEAKER_03

From 1935.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And it says in 1935, for God loved the world so dearly that he gave up his only son so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life instead of perishing. Which I think for 1935, like that's pretty um pretty modern language, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but not as modern as this. This is the Gen Z Bible.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so this somebody gave me this, and I just it's so fun. It says, Yo peeps, God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only son, so anyone who believes in him won't get wiped out, but will have life that goes on forever.

SPEAKER_05

Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03

So, you know, but so then the question would be do they all say the same thing?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. They all say the same thing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And and I think we can all relax a little bit because it's it's not that different than saying, today I'm gonna go um talk to some people uh in this part of town. Or to or tomorrow I'm gonna go over to a university and talk to some people, or and you're gonna use different words.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. But you're gonna say the same thing. Yeah. That uh I reminds me of Paul, like talking about I'm gonna talk with I'm gonna be this for these people because that's who they are. I'm gonna be this for these people because that's who they are.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

That's just that's just mission.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. At the same time, there are some erroneous translations.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think one of the things you gotta watch out for is if you cannot find out who the uh supervising translators were, who who's the who's the scholar team that's behind a translation, yeah, that should be a big red flag.

SPEAKER_05

Oh my gosh, that tran that like is a perfect segue into good study Bibles.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I don't know. Uh I've got like a whole bunch of different Bibles here too, and these are all my different study Bibles. And one of the things that I always recommend to people when they are looking for a Bible is to find not just a regular Bible, but a study Bible. Um, and if a good study Bible will have some really great um articles and stuff, but that the very beginning of it, it will talk to you about their translation process and it'll it'll give you a list of all of the people that were like the team involved in it and all that stuff. So that's cool.

SPEAKER_03

And I mean, I've done this before where you go, okay, who's that person? Let me just look up like well, what schools do they teach at?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, or do they have they ever um you know been active in like an actual church ministry, or you know, you can find stuff like that. And I think that's really important to to go like who are we who is shaping the the way this translation was done or the kinds of notes that we're gonna read here.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. And so the other thing I think um that's really cool about uh different study Bibles is it can they can the study Bibles will meet you wherever you are. So I've got right here, I've got a new believers Bible that we hand out. You can mount like candy at West Side all the time. And so the articles are gonna be shaped around explaining the content of the Bible for you.

SPEAKER_03

I just got to give a uh I went behind your back because Jess at our church I know I know Jess at our church manages our team that hands out Bibles, but I was I was at church when somebody came up and talked to me and had a 12-year-old daughter who had some questions. So I got to go get one of these Bibles and give it to her, and I was flipping through here reading the titles of the articles, and she's like, Oh, really? A 12-year-old was like, Oh, I I want that.

SPEAKER_05

That's incredible. I love it. Yeah. So um the commentary and the um the content of the articles will speak to you. They'll explain the stuff. So I've got this, I've got a chronological study bible here.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, cool. Wow, really?

SPEAKER_05

Mm-hmm. And I haven't really dove into that one so much, but so it's chronological.

SPEAKER_03

In other words, the books are not in the same order as what we might see them. Yeah is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That's so cool. Is there a table of contents in here?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I have the one my favorite thing in here is the timeline. Um because I like I'm to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm looking through all of the reading through all of the historical chapters, and I'm like, I I don't know, like, how does that lay out historically? You know? Yeah. Like I want to know what happened and then what happened next, and then what happened next.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. So yeah, this has Genesis and then Job.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because Job was was actually uh an early, early, early account. Yeah. Even though it's much later in the layout of the Bible that we typically read. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And then I've got um, this is the Bible that I use the most. It's my uh theology study Bible. Okay. So it gets into like um the theology of the Bible and like all of the main big um topics that um that the Bible covers. Like, you know, where's my little G here? Uh sacrifice, like covenant, like all those types of things. Sin, all those types of things.

SPEAKER_03

I think maybe as as those who are listening are possibly feeling a little bit of information overload here. Maybe just to go back to the point of all this is you know what's fun? Being a follower of Jesus, there's no end to the depth you can go to.

SPEAKER_05

None. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, and and I don't think that should intimidate anybody because every single step is a deeper step, and which you God wants us to go, you know, at our He's gonna have a pace for you that's just right, you know, and and I think if you do this following the Holy Spirit's leading, you're never gonna feel overwhelmed by this stuff. You're always just gonna feel pulled along. And I just love that, you know, where it's like he's pulling you along, it's it's your heart's beating fast, and you're you're you love it and you're learning. And if you get to one of those seasons where there's just stall, I I just hope that you'll you'll just just break that season. Just you know, just jolt yourself out of that by taking one of these steps or you know, getting just a step further in in your belief. And then of course, all of this is about not just what we believe about the Bible, it's about getting God's word in our heart. Absolutely, and that's gonna be the place of transformation.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. It circles back to to the fact that the this Bible, this book, claims to be the truth and the word of God.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And people died for it for a reason, right? So, okay, well, so last question then. Okay. To to wrap us up. Um, somebody is listening and maybe they have drifted, or maybe they um they used to like be in the word and they're not so much, or maybe they're exploring it for the first time. What next step would you recommend? Like, how would you um how would you instruct them to take a next step, or where should they start in the Bible?

SPEAKER_03

It's so good. Uh, I know there's a lot of different opinions about this. I just I personally I love the flow of Genesis to Revelation. I I I always am going back to the old, this is my take, and other people might tell you other stuff. I love going back to the old testament to see the foundation of what the new covenant was built on because all of it, all of Jesus' stuff points back, all of the New Testament stuff points back, and you can find so much parallel there. And with the one caveat might be that, and I think Pastor Ken, my father-in-law, my main mentor, would probably say, No, no, no, start with John. I do like his point because if you go to the New Testament book of John and you start reading that, you do meet Jesus, and it does become pretty quickly like you're like, oh, that's who Jesus is. And I do think that's the beginning of a relationship with God. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. And you learn all that stuff about Jesus in John. Uh if I had to probably pick, like if it was me starting over, I'd probably go John and then start back at Genesis and just go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. That's that's probably what I would do. But I think the the big piece would be uh get yourself on a reading plan of some kind, whether you create it yourself and you keep track of it, or you go on the Bible app and you're like, okay, I'm gonna read John, let's do it in 21 days, great, and then it's gonna remind you every day, one chapter a day. You know, then go through the whole Old Testament. Um, and and I would say don't do this alone because you need you do need the device, you do need the reminder, you do need the structure, or else you're probably not gonna stick with it.

SPEAKER_05

Have it for me, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I think the biggest, biggest, biggest thing is don't do it alone personally, like get in community to do this. I agree. There's no way you could grow any faster than discussing scripture in community. That's like shh rocket, rocket ride. Yep, good stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I like it. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for joining in nerding out with me.

SPEAKER_03

I'm disappointed that we didn't get to talk about our colored pencils because I thought we were going to go to like how we highlight stuff.

SPEAKER_05

Blue is question for me. Oh wow, you do have a system up there. I'm kind of not surprised. It's fun. Uh uh, I don't think that you can go wrong when it comes to this kind of stuff, but definitely take your next step. Thank you again for nerding out with me. No problem. Thank you. Thanks guys for listening to us nerd out. Absolutely. I hope you got something really great, and uh, we'll chat with you next week.

SPEAKER_03

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Midweek Motivation. To make sure you don't miss any content in the future, please subscribe, share, and if you enjoyed this, give us a like and consider popping by a Westside service some weekend. You can find out more at Westside Community Church.com.