Today we have Tony Ulwick on the show. Tony is the pioneer of Jobs-to-be-Done Theory, the inventor of the Outcome-Driven Innovation® (ODI) process, and founder of strategy and innovation consulting firm, Strategyn. He has applied his ODI process at some of the world's leading companies and across nearly all industries to inform breakthrough innovations - achieving a success rate that is 5 times better than the industry average.
Philip Kotler calls Tony "the Deming of Innovation" and credits him with bringing predictability to innovation. Published in Harvard Business Review and MIT Sloan Management Review, Tony is also the author of best sellers What Customers Want and Jobs-to-be-Done: Theory to Practice.
He is eager to continue sharing insights that will inspire leaders of organizations, executive teams, and innovators to change the way the world innovates.
Show notes:
https://strategyn.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/
https://www.youtube.com/user/strategyn
Qualio website:
https://www.qualio.com/
Previous episodes:
https://www.qualio.com/from-lab-to-launch-podcast
Apply to be on the show:
https://forms.gle/uUH2YtCFxJHrVGeL8
Music by keldez
Today we have Tony Ulwick on the show. Tony is the pioneer of Jobs-to-be-Done Theory, the inventor of the Outcome-Driven Innovation® (ODI) process, and founder of strategy and innovation consulting firm, Strategyn. He has applied his ODI process at some of the world's leading companies and across nearly all industries to inform breakthrough innovations - achieving a success rate that is 5 times better than the industry average.
Philip Kotler calls Tony "the Deming of Innovation" and credits him with bringing predictability to innovation. Published in Harvard Business Review and MIT Sloan Management Review, Tony is also the author of best sellers What Customers Want and Jobs-to-be-Done: Theory to Practice.
He is eager to continue sharing insights that will inspire leaders of organizations, executive teams, and innovators to change the way the world innovates.
Show notes:
https://strategyn.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/
https://www.youtube.com/user/strategyn
Qualio website:
https://www.qualio.com/
Previous episodes:
https://www.qualio.com/from-lab-to-launch-podcast
Apply to be on the show:
https://forms.gle/uUH2YtCFxJHrVGeL8
Music by keldez
Hi there. Welcome to the from Lab to Launch podcast by Qualio, where we share inspiring stories from the people on the front lines of life sciences. Tune in and leave inspired to bring your life-saving products to the world.
Meg Sinclair:Hello everyone and welcome to From Lab to Launch by Qualio. I'm Megan, I'll be your host for today. We're glad you're here. Before we jump in, just a reminder to please rate the show and share it with any of your science or biology nerd friends. We know you have some. Also check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today or request to be on the show. We're very grateful for all the interest in the podcast lately. Today we have Tony Ick on the show. Tony is the founder and c e O of Straten, a strategy and innovation consulting firm. He is also the pioneer of Jobs to Be Done theory and the inventor of the outcome-driven innovation, O D I. Outcome-driven innovation is a proven innovation process within 86. Percent success rate. Tony has worked with dozens of Fortune 500 companies, helping them make innovation more predictable. Tony absolutely has a lot to offer us and our listeners, so let's bring him in. Welcome to From Lab to Launch. Tony, we're so excited to have you speaking with us today. You're exactly the type of person and guest we love to have here on the show because our listeners can learn so much from you. So let's go ahead and get started.
Tony Ulwick:Great. Thanks, beg, I appreciate the opportunity. Great.
Meg Sinclair:Can you tell us a little bit more about your background, Tony?
Tony Ulwick:Sure. I'd be happy to. I started my, uh, career, uh, at I B M back in the 1980s and one of the first projects I worked on, uh, was supposed to change the way home computing was done around the world, and IBM was supposed to take over that position from Apple at the time. And, um, The day after we introduced the product, the headlines in the Wall Street Journal read the PC Jr. Is a flop. And it, and it was, it cost IBM about a billion dollars. They pulled it from the market a year later. It was just a, uh, colossal failure. And, um, that really got me interested in wondering, you know, how could a company like I B M with all its fast resources, uh, Waste all that money on a failed product. And I quickly realized it wasn't just i b m, this is common to nearly every company, and it's still a big problem today. So, um, that, that launched my career into really trying to understand the mechanisms by which innovation fails and, you know, how do you fix them? How do you make innovation more predictable so you can take, uh, a 90% failure rate and turn it into an 86% success rate, as you said.
Meg Sinclair:Great. You are, uh, excuse me. Your consultancy organization is called Straten. Can you tell us how this idea came
Tony Ulwick:about? Sure. So as I was working at I B M, uh, it was quite a natural progression, uh, to, to leaving and starting, uh, Straten in 1991. Uh, as I was working in I bm trying to find a better way to innovate, uh, I researched. All different sources of, of, um, processes, uh, around the globe. And I got to practice some of these, uh, processes inside b m. So I was more or less an internal b m consultant. And I worked in the, the whole variety of projects. And when I got, when I felt like I good enough at it, I said, well, you know, maybe I should take the show on the road, so to speak, and, uh, and go try my hand at, at consulting on my own. And that led to the creation of Stratas in 1991. Uh, so spent 30. 31 years since, uh, since I've been doing this, and, uh, we've applied it, uh, applied this approach to so many companies, uh, especially in the, uh, medical device space. Uh, Medtronic, j and j, Siemens, Abbott Lab, Stryker, uh, Zimmer Bio, uh, it, it goes on. So, uh, we've, we've really been able to fine tune the approach, uh, for the medical device community and others. We've, our clients range from, and. 30 different industries, but we've always had, uh, a large percentage of our work in the medical device space.
Meg Sinclair:Why do you think that is? Um, that you have such a high, um, Rate of, uh, companies with medical device
Tony Ulwick:backgrounds? That's a great question because, uh, I, and I believe the answer is they have some of the longest development cycles and they can't afford to get it wrong. Okay. If you miss a cycle and you don't have the right product at the right time, you're gonna be sitting on the sidelines for. Quite some period of time before you can recover. So it's, it's a high risk environment and, and of course a high reward environment as well. So, uh, try to mitigate the risk, um, before you, you know, develop the product before you take it through all the regulatory agencies to try to get it approved. Uh, makes great sense. And we see other industries like that too, that have very long lead site, uh, development cycles that, um, just can't afford to get it wrong. Right.
Meg Sinclair:Is that where the outcome-driven innovation comes in?
Tony Ulwick:It does. That's exactly right. Uh, you know, we've developed a process that's, uh, just, it comes from a different perspective. Uh, uh, you've probably heard the quote that people don't want quarter inch drills. They want quarter inch trolls. And, um, most companies look, look at the world of innovation through the lens of the drill maker as opposed to the homemaker. And when you look at the world through the lens of the homemaker, everything looks very different. And the first thing you notice is why people buy products in the first place. Which is to get a job done is the way we say it. They're trying to accomplish something. They're trying to avoid something. They're trying to achieve a set of goals or objectives. So now if people are buying products to get a job done, then instead of defining markets around products and technologies, why don't we define markets as groups of people and the job they're trying to get done. So it could be a surgeon who's trying to repair a rotator cuff, for example, would constitute a market as opposed to defining it in any other way. The advantage of this, of course, is um, those markets are stable over time and now you can anchor your strategy on something that's not gonna change when the technology changes or when your product changes. So that's a big advantage. But, uh, the other advantage is you can actually go study the job the customer's trying to get done. And extract what we call their outcomes. This is where outcome-driven innovation comes from. You know, how do they measure success as they go about, get the job done? And, um, it turns out that these are the metrics people use to judge the value of products, and they are knowable, discoverable in the customer discovery process. So extracting this set of outcomes, which there's usually a. Anywhere from 75 to a hundred or more. Uh, we, we can then, uh, quantify them with customers to figure out which ones are unmet. And which ones are really important to them and not well satisfied with today's solutions, and we can pinpoint where they're struggling to get the job done at a level of granularity that makes innovation predictable. And so that's why we call it outcome-driven innovation. That starts with the end of mind. What are they trying to achieve and where are they struggling to achieve those very specific goals? And then how can we help them get the job done better? I love that.
Meg Sinclair:Starting with the end in mind, um, can you tell us about your first client to I implement this approach and what the outcome was for them?
Tony Ulwick:I love that story. Thanks for that one. Um, yeah, the very first client outside of I B M, uh, was a company called, uh, Cortis Corporation, and Cortis eventually was acquired by j and j. But, um, here the story is they, uh, They were in the angioplasty balloon market. Uh, they had been steadily loser market share. They were down to about one and a half percent and they had to do something different. So they used this approach, uh, that we talked about, and we talked to interventional cardiologists. Uh, we figured out. You know, how do they measure the success as they're, as they're trying to restore blood flow in an artery? And, um, we captured 70 ish needs. We quantify them, and we found that there are about 15 needs that were highly underserved or unmet as we say. And so we got the engineering team together and said, If we can solve these for these 15 unmet needs, you can create a product that will win in the market. You know, at least there's the opportunity to get the job done better. Uh, so they proceeded to put together a, uh, new line of angioplasty balloons. Uh, they've released them a year and a half later, so, uh, they're 19. In total. All of them became number one or number two in the market. Their market share, their market share went from one and a half percent to over 20%. Uh, their stock price climbed quite dramatically, uh, about an eightfold increase. They get acquired by j and j a couple years later. And there was one other kicker in there too, which I found interesting. We, um, We discovered that there was one need that was off the chart in terms of being unmet, and that was minimized in the likelihood of stenosis, which is the recurrence of the blockage. And, um, they said, well, we're working on a device in our lab along with 50 other things, uh, that. Can actually minimize the like of Osis. And we said, well, you should have really double tripled down your resources on that and get it to market before anyone else does. Uh, which they did. Uh, they were the first to come up with the, the stent, the heart stent back in that timeframe. And that in and of itself propelled them into a, uh, a billion dollar market in just two years. Wow. So when you, I can go on too. There's one other element of this, please. They, uh, they had the foresight to, uh, file patents on drug eluting stents. And, uh, that ended up paying off because Guidant copied those drug eluting stents a number of years later. I think the payout was$600 million. Because they could protect their intellectual property, and they knew enough to patent that once they discovered the opportunity and, and understood the value of the, the invention that they had at their, in their hands. So even
Meg Sinclair:though they weren't able to capitalize on that, just protecting that IP ahead of time really helped made the opportunities. Yeah.
Tony Ulwick:Great. Yes.
Meg Sinclair:Um, yeah, we talked a lot about the life sciences industry. Are there other applications outside of life industries and does it change the approach? Um, depending on the
Tony Ulwick:industry, the approach doesn't change, and we've applied it in three 30 plus industries from, you know, medical devices as talked about, to financial services, to industrial equipment, to test equipment to, to pumps. Um, Right. We've done over a thousand different projects and the approach works exactly the same. Um, and this is something I really like about, uh, the, the approach, because it doesn't take a it, it doesn't assume a solution upfront. It assumes people are trying to get a job done. And once you figure out where the needs are unmet, it helps inform product development. It helps inform service development, it helps inform digitalization strategy and software tools and so on. Uh, what we found, like in the agriculture space, for example, uh, we studied the job of growing a crop. And, um, there, it's a complicated process, believe it or not. And there were about 150 different outcomes associated with growing a crop. Um, and roughly speaking about a third of them had to do with the hardware. We'll call it the seeds, you know, the equipment that you need to harvest, things like that. But another third of them had to do with, uh, surface components. Yeah, that. Require people's help, uh, somewhere in the process. And another third related to information that the, uh, grower needed to make decisions throughout that process. So studying that job led to their, our clients' development of better products, improved services, and to digitalize farming as a platform, which wasn't a thing. 15 years ago when we discovered all that. So it's, uh, so you can see the breadth and depth of the application and it's pretty powerful. That's
Meg Sinclair:amazing. Um, can you tell us more about your jobs to be done theory?
Tony Ulwick:Sure. Well, the theory is, is pretty straightforward and I, I, I, I briefly touched on it, it's the notion that people buy products to get a job done. Well, if that's the case, then again, as we said, let's define markets as a group of people getting a job done and. What's really fun about this theory is that it gives you a, uh, a very meaningful way that from which you can grow growing from the core. Um, at a high level, uh, most products don't get an entire job done. They just get part of a job done. And if that's the case, then a next logical extension to your product would be to get more of the job done. And there's, even as you lay out the job, you can lay out the different steps in the job. And it's often the case that there's some adjacent steps like, like your product may get step number four, done really well. And that's it. Well, why don't we consider step three and step five and you can start expanding your product to get more of the job done. And over the years, all products evolve. And markets evolve to solutions that will get the entire job done on a single platform. It may take 20, 30 years, but that's the direction it takes. And Jobs theory says if you recognize this and you, you know what the job is and you understand at a deep level, you can accelerate the pace at which you, uh, get more of the job done and claim that ultimate position is the platform owner in that market. And the, and the re the rest is just details,
Meg Sinclair:identify those jobs, those things to be done. And then the rest is just details to fall into place. Yeah, exactly. Great. Um, we talked a little bit about industries and types of clients. Um, what stage do clients usually reach out to Straten.
Tony Ulwick:Uh, I'd say, you know, about 95% of our clients already have a product in the market, uh, but some don't. Uh, you know, some, uh, some don't even have a product in mind. Uh, they haven't even picked a market yet. Uh, but that's, that's kind of rare. Uh, even people that aren't in a market yet, they already have a product in mind, which means they've inherently chosen a market. So, in other words, as, as soon as you. As soon as you have a product in mind, you're assuming that there's a group of people trying to get the job done, and they might want your product for that. So you're assuming a group of people and a job to be done. And oddly enough, a lot of, uh, startups don't recognize that. Um, you know, they, they'll have an idea, but they don't know who the job executor is. They're not sure of what the entire job is. And of course, the success rates and startups aren't, aren't very good. They're, you know, somewhere around, 5%, 10%. So, uh, but applying this at the strata level makes good sense. We have a number of companies that do that, but the bulk of our client base, uh, you know, are Fortune 500 companies.
Meg Sinclair:And are those Fortune 500 companies looking to improve existing products or innovate new products or both?
Tony Ulwick:Uh, both, uh, a lot of'em, uh, you know, I, I told you the quarter story. That's interesting in, in that their motivation was to regain market share, right? They, they, they were struggling, so turning the business around. Others just wanna make sure they stay ahead. Uh, Fred, if you're already the market leader, you wanna make sure you remain in the market leadership position. You don't wanna get disrupted. You know, you're looking for these opportunities that are underserved and you want to get to them before your competitors do. So that's, that, that makes sense too. So we, we see it from a lot of different angles, but it's often the case that there's a struggle or a challenge that companies are facing. And they're trying to overcome some, some barrier, a competitive barrier, regulatory barrier, uh, that's causing them some friction and, uh, uh, you know, standing in the way of their, their growth basically. Hmm, that's a great
Meg Sinclair:insight. Uh, what has been a really interesting product for you so far at
Tony Ulwick:Strat? Let's see. Um, there's been a lot of interesting products, but I, I would have to say one of the more interesting things that we have been involved with was, uh, we, we, we were working with, um, we used to do these, uh, events in Aspen, at the Aspen Institute, and we'd have people come in from all, all around the country or different parts of the world for that matter, and we would. Um, you know, talk about innovation, talk about outcome driven innovation, how to apply it. We take people through, um, you know, mock exercises and so on. And we met, uh, three gentlemen that were visiting from, uh, a military company. And, uh, turns out they weren't working for the military company. They were actually working with the cia and they loved the concept and they thought. This could really be, um, helpful idea, uh, in developing products. For the CIA a as well. Now we never got to personally develop those products, but we did get to go to, uh, Langley and, and, and at the c i A headquarters and train people on how to, um, execute the ODI I process. And, uh, that, that, that, that was just a remarkable feeling, you know, contribution where something like that could happen.
Meg Sinclair:That's amazing. I imagine there were some security clearances involved, um, to get, um, on site and such there. So, uh,
Tony Ulwick:there, there was indeed.
Meg Sinclair:That does sound very interesting. Um, what are some tips you would give to someone who is currently in the process of wanting to bring a new product to market?
Tony Ulwick:Well, I'd say the tip is, uh, just make sure you do your cust your customer discovery work before you get too far. Down the road. Um, you know, a lot of people are afraid to talk to customers and because it's a, it's a skill first off, and you're not sure what to ask them. Uh, so it can become an uncomfortable conversation. But basically just ask'em what they're trying to achieve. You know, what is that job they're trying to get done? How do they break down those steps? How did they measure success? And, uh, by, by asking those questions, you can get a good feel for. Whether your product is gonna get the job done better or not. And, and one thing that we've discovered over the years is there is a threshold, uh, for success. Like if, if your job's, if your product's only gonna get the job done 1% better, then you may rethink it, right? Uh, the threshold's somewhere around 15%. If you can get the job, then 15% better or more, you, you stand a pretty good chance of taking some market share in the space. So, um, The advice is make sure it's getting the job done significantly better. Otherwise you're gonna be a me too product and it's gonna be very hard to succeed. That's
Meg Sinclair:some great tips. Thank you. Um, some, so switching gears back to you, what has been one of the biggest challenge or lessons in your career if you had to pick just one?
Tony Ulwick:Oh gosh. So many lessons learned. Um, I'd say, uh, one of the biggest lessons is just being persistent, um, at perfecting something, um, like the innovation process. It's. You know, it's, it's a journey. We're still on the journey. It's still not perfect, right? Uh, there's still risk that needs to be mitigated, but just staying focused on, uh, one thing and really being good at one thing as opposed to spreading yourself too thin, uh, I think is a really good bit of advice for startups too, for if you know, for anyone in their careers as well. You know, spreading yourself too thin, uh, can dilute your ability to excel in any one area. So, being really good at one thing, uh, generally, you know, pays off.
Meg Sinclair:Yeah, I think that's some great advice kind of in all areas of life. Um, can, can't do everything. Right. Um, so thinking back to the start of your career, um, what piece of advice would you give yourself looking back
Tony Ulwick:and why? Oh, I would say, um, enjoy it because it goes fast goes, it goes by quickly. It does. And, and just make, you know, every day enjoyable, see the joy in it, not the, the grind in it. And uh, and then years later you'll be able to look back on it and be happy with what you did.
Meg Sinclair:Yeah, that's great advice. Um, one question we like to ask all of our guests. If we run into you at a bookstore like Barns and Noble, what section would we find you in?
Tony Ulwick:That's a great question. Uh, I, I would probably be in the business book space, um, uh, and I've spent most of my career there. But if I had to jump out, I'd like to find things that just are funny, just, you know, more along the comedy front. So I, I, I could be, I could be found over there as well, you know, laughing in the back corner.
Meg Sinclair:That's great. Laughing is so good for the soul. Well, thank you Tony for joining us, um, here from Lab to Launch. I learned a lot from you today and I know our listeners did too. Where can we go to follow you, learn more about your theory and the odi? I.
Tony Ulwick:Oh mate, there's a number of different places. Uh, our company, website, website@straten.com, it's a great place to go. People could contact me@wickatian.com and we've just released a new, uh, innovation platform as well that people can use that guides'em through the ODI process. It's called odi ODI Pro, and that can be found@strategy.com as well. Perfect. Thanks
Meg Sinclair:so much for joining us today, Tony.
Tony Ulwick:Meg, thanks so much for the invite. I certainly appreciate it.
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