What will retirement look like for you? We talk with Dr. Audrey Karlinsky, member of the Advantages Retirement Plan™ Investment Committee and newly appointed OMA Board Director. She shares what retirement looks like to her and how she’s preparing for the retired life.
What will retirement look like for you? We talk with Dr. Audrey Karlinsky, member of the Advantages Retirement Plan™ Investment Committee and newly appointed OMA Board Director. She shares what retirement looks like to her and how she’s preparing for the retired life.
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: Financial planning needs to be part of the dinner conversation when appropriate. And we shouldn't shy away from discussing it, enjoying the fruits of our labors, but let's not get overly stressed about the financial planning piece. There are experts that will help us.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Financial Checkup, a podcast series devoted to improving the financial health and retirement readiness of physicians and their spouses or common-law partners. This series is brought to you by the award-winning Advantages Retirement Plan from OMA Insurance.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: Hello, everyone I'm Preya Singh- Cushni, director at OMA Insurance. Plan sponsor for the award-winning Advantages Retirement Plan for Ontario's doctors. This program is a first of its kind group retirement savings plan designed to help physicians, their spouse or common-law partner. The purpose of the plan is to provide medical students and our members a way to begin saving for their retirement at any stage of their life and career.
This is the first episode of the retirement talk series, where we invite physicians from across the province to get personal with us on what retirement looks like for them and to share with us what they're doing to prepare for the next phase. And with that in this episode, I'm really excited to welcome Dr. Karlinsky, family physician, member of the Advantages Retirement Investment Committee, and newly appointed OMA board director.
Welcome Dr. Karlinsky. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm really excited to hear your thoughts on what retirement looks like for you and how you've prepared. But before we do that, could you please go into telling me more about yourself, your practice and more about who you are?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: Thank you so much Priya, for inviting me. This is a wonderful opportunity. For those who might not know me. I'm a family physician very much closer to retirement than I want to admit. Full disclosure, I am now age 62. I've been in practice as a general family physician since 1985, so quite a while. I work in downtown Toronto in a group practice, which I've had the privilege to be a member of for all those many years. I've also had a lot of privilege to be an educator in the undergraduate and postgraduate medical education affiliated with the University of Toronto, the Department of Family and Community Medicine.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: Wow, that's amazing. And so your journey has probably taken you through lots of different avenues and paths. And so with that, when we think about just where you are today and where you're looking forward to, as you mentioned, thank you for sharing your age with us, where you are in terms of your career path, your practice, the profession. I want to learn a little bit more about what you are looking forward to when it comes to retirement. So can you tell me, what does that look like for you? What do you envision for yourself when you do determine that it's time?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: So I feel so fortunate that I've had a succession plan 29 years in the making in that fortunately, my daughter will be joining the practice with me this summer, and the goal between the two of us is to share the practice. And as I wind down and she winds up, my patients will never be orphaned. And for me, that is a great privilege and a relief. As so many of us know, it is harder to find replacement physicians to do full scope family medicine. And I've been in practice all these years. These patients are very important to me and I wanted to make sure that they had a handoff in such a way that they don't lose the primary care relationship that they so need. That's the first comment that I would make.
And then the second comment is yes, I am very much looking forward to a slower pace of work and more opportunities to do the things that have been so challenging during our recent pandemic times. I love to golf. I love to curl. I love to travel. I have two young grandsons who I miss terribly and are eagerly awaiting fully vaccinated summer so that we might rejoin spending time with them. For me, it's going to be a slower time line. A little bit more runway for me to fully retire. And I'm very much looking forward to that with the knowledge that my practice will continue.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: Excellent point that you make about succession planning and looking at first and foremost, your practice, what's going to happen when you do actually slow down. And so when you thought about that piece, what kind of elements went into that sort of decision making and how did it become your daughter? Which I think is great because that is definitely keeping it consistent for your patients? But how did you determine that that was going to be the right sort of flow for you as you wind down?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: Well, that's all very much happenstance and I am mostly kidding when I say that my succession planning started 29 years ago. A little bit of my sarcasm at play here. The healthcare field goes through cycles. When I started off in the 80s, people were buying practices and then decades later, people couldn't give them away. And then once again, things like a foe position seem to be attractive to some newly minted family doctors. And so I really didn't think at the beginning that I would need to plan for retirement with respect to handing over the practice. It seems that having a practice in a desirable location with excellent colleagues would always be attractive, and I didn't give it a second thought that I would be able to replace myself.
And then only in the last few years with the government denying or restricting the access to patient enrollment models, I began to have a bit more panic about how would I find a replacement physician? Would there be enough of my recently graduated trainees who would want to take on this full scope, family medicine work? And that's a whole and separate conversation that we might want to have another day about just the six cohorts that we've lost, who haven't been able to freely enter these patient enrollment models.
But at that time my daughter was entering residency, and then we began to have a conversation about, was she even remotely interested in joining the practice with me? And that's when the real work began of trying to figure out between the two of us, what might work. And it's an ongoing process. She's going to start in July and we're going to continually reevaluate whether this is a good fit, not just for myself and her, but also the patients and other colleagues. And she's young enough where she may still want to do other work or locate in other places. Nothing is ever fixed in stone. I guess that's the point I'm trying to make.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: And that's a great point. And I think it's great, it's exciting to even have those conversations and be able to share those experiences, especially with your daughter going into practice and learning and growing with you. So that's really exciting. So when you think about that next phase, what do you think you're going to miss most when you do decide to slow down?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: In slowing down I don't think I'll miss too much. Once the retirement is actually fully implemented and I do walk away from practice, that's when I feel that the longings are going to be more challenging for me to deal with. I mean, we're talking about a practice where I deal with four generations in one visit. I call myself grand doctor delivering babies to the babies that I've delivered. These are deep relationships built over decades. Very privileged to have those. I call it a sacred space when I'm meeting with the patient in my own mind, at least. That these are privileges that we have, and it's very important work, so I will miss that.
As I wind down. I think I'll be truly happy because I'll have the best of both. I'll be able to continue the meaningful work that I've always done, but it'll be a slower pace and I'll have more opportunities as I said, for the grandchildren. Maybe a little more time for golf, curling, travel. We hope that will resume in the time. I certainly am not going to miss the hundred plus HRM reports a day. Labs and messages and the terror I experience every time I look at my inbox that just seems to fill endlessly. And no matter how hard I try to get it down to a manageable amount of reports waiting to be dealt with, that I'm looking forward to.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: So I can see that there are some things you won't miss when you do decide to enter into that next phase. And so when we looked at our research for the Advantages Retirement Plan, it was interesting to see that we found some really interesting data and we saw that about only 47% of physicians that were 65 plus felt that they were somewhat financially prepared for retirement. And 51% of that same demographic said they feel in some way that their family will have enough money to maintain their current lifestyle in retirement. And then another 48% said they do not have a registered savings plan.
What would you say to the 48% of 65 year olds that don't have a registered savings plan? Should they be worried about it's too late or is there still time? What would be your thoughts on that piece for those physicians who haven't really prepared themselves yet for this piece?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: Full disclosure, which isn't really necessary. I'm not an investment counselor, that's not my training, but I would say it's upon us not to worry. We can always step up and make a new plan. We can change the old plan that we had or create one that we didn't have yet. We're fortunate in that most of us can continue to work into our more mature years and there are fewer restrictions than in other professions. And even though you might not have the long runway, if you're older, the compounding effects will be different than if you had started younger.
I don't believe that it's ever too late. And we have a myriad of ways that we can work part-time and continue to save as well as take advantage of what life has offered us. Maybe we're holding good real estate. Maybe we can dial down some of the lifestyle decisions that we hold so near and dear while we work full time, but may not be as critical for us as we slow down and retire.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: Great points, indeed. It is definitely not too late and definitely the ability to change and transform is always within us. So I love the fact that you raised that don't penalize ourselves, don't feel bad. But just having the thoughts about what that would look like and really taking some time to put it on paper or whatever, in terms of giving yourself that view to help you kind of see what that picture looks like when the time comes. I think that's great input.
And so just going back to you a little bit more. What are you finding that's going to be exciting for you to explore that's new? Something that you're not doing today that you're looking to explore when you do retire? What are some of the things that you'll get yourself involved with that you don't currently do today?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: I'll probably do some more volunteerism. I do a little bit of that today, but not as much as I might like to. I want to do more learning. I want to go back to adult learning in ways that I haven't had opportunity to do. There's just so many opportunities out there to acquire new skills, reinvent myself in some way, become more talented. If one can do that, maybe take up painting or drawing, things like that. So many possibilities, right? The world is our oyster. As long as we have the health and wellness that we can get out there and do something, the rest is easy.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: Excellent. Those sound like very interesting activities. And definitely sounds like you're a lifetime learner, which is always a good thing. Because there's always something new that is interesting to learn and get yourself sort of familiar with. Now, just looking from I'm a female, so I'm going to ask you. With a female physician lens and looking at retirement, would there be anything that you would want us to pay more attention to sooner as a female in professional industries? If so, what would that be? Where would you, if you were looking at your younger self, what would be the thoughts that you would share with your younger self about retirement and preparing for it?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: So we know that women live longer than men. So we have to prepare for a longer life expectancy and probably a longer period in retirement. We also tend to be a little healthier towards the end of the life cycle so that's a bonus. I make jokes with myself and friends that we don't want to outlive our money, but I think that's a fear that we all have, especially as we enjoy a certain lifestyle as professional women. And it's hard to see ourselves doing the same with less.
But what I'd like to say, and I didn't say earlier is, our wants and needs do change over time. And for me, the determinants of happiness or my own happiness, have always been the relationships. Who do I love, who loves me? What am I able to do with the people that I care about? Not so much the stuff, right? Yeah, I would love to take more trips or have higher quality goods and services. But at the end of the day, I've realized over a lifetime, that those are not the determinants of happiness, at least for myself. So I'm optimistic that I'll be very satisfied doing more and not necessarily having more financial backing to the endeavors that I pursue.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: Excellent. Thank you. Needs and wants are very important to identify and you raise a good point about longevity and women living longer and not necessarily sometimes planning for that. Which is not a bad problem to have, especially with health being better amongst females. I think that's another reason why the guaranteed lifetime income product was really important to round out the Advantages Retirement Plan. It was really that concept of being able to somehow guarantee income for as long as you live versus you having to worry about not having enough.
And so starting earlier, age 50, this product was really innovative, unique to the plan. Just want to know if you had any comments or thoughts around that guaranteed lifetime income portion of the ARP and when it comes to helping with preparing and that whole concept about living longer?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: Yeah. I'm very excited about the guaranteed life program. It's sponsored by Brookfield Annuities and it's going to offer a lot of members that kind of peace of mind to say that if they've invested an amount that they can expect, that guaranteed annual return income. So lived experience. My father recently passed a couple of years ago at age 93. He was fortunate enough at a very young age to take out an annuity. And I don't think he expected to live as long as he did. But he used to really enjoy what he called payday, which was about every January 13th, where he would get this lump sum. And it was his great pleasure and privilege to then spend it in the ways that gave him joy.
So whether you need it to maintain the ability to pay your bills or the absolute necessities or whether it's just your slush fund. It is something for the toolbox to consider that gives you that knowledge that every year you're going to have this amount of money to use towards the priorities that you set for yourself.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: That's amazing. I love the fact that he referred to it as his payday. Wouldn't we all want to have that later on in life? Something to look forward to. It's the art of saving for that rainy day. But to coin it as a payday, I think is even more fun because it's great to have that added cushion. And I agree with you to that point of you may not necessarily need it, but it's great to have it. And as long as you do have it, then it's a bonus. And I think that was the whole intent with the ARP program was to allow physicians no matter where you are in your learning to become a physician, to practicing, to entering into the retirement thinking phase, to actually retiring.
The OMA wanted to give something foundational and I think the Advantages Retirement Program allows a lot of our members, regardless of where you are in your life, that opportunity to do some of that foundational savings. And then having sort of that payday capabilities with the guaranteed lifetime income product is definitely something I think physicians would find valuable. I know that the ARP Investment Committee was instrumental and yourself with bringing this forward. And we're really excited to see the engagement on that piece of the program.
And so with that, I'm heading into my sort of last question for you, which is really just around any last words that you would give to your peers that are listening with us today, on just this topic of being comfortable when they're ready to retire. Any last final thoughts that you'd want to share from your perspective on that?
Dr. Audrey Karlinsky: Thanks. Absolutely. In some families, we don't talk about money. It's not a comfortable conversation. In other families, it's just part of everyday conversation. I would encourage all of us to normalize it. That financial literacy, financial planning needs to be part of the dinner conversation when appropriate. And we shouldn't shy away from discussing it, enjoying the fruits of our labors, but let's not get overly stressed about the financial planning piece. There are experts that will help us. There's lots of education that's available.
If you are somebody who wants to be very hands on, if you value managing your own financial future, that's great. So many resources. I remember back in the day when I was starting out, there were books that you could borrow from the library or even buy that would instruct you how to invest, and that was about it. Now, you have so many learning opportunities, it's just a wealth of information out there. If you're someone who doesn't love doing that work, don't stress about that either because there are many low cost options such as the ARP Program that will safely help you to save well into retirement and beyond, as we said, with a guaranteed life time investment product.
And don't feel bad that it's taken us this long to get to a place where we can start to invest adequately. We have that longer educational period. We have high debt loads. Most of the newer trainees are walking out the door with six figures of debt. That's not something that I had to face personally, and so I recognize that there's lots of delayed gratification that comes with having to manage that high debt load. You don't have to delay all gratification. You don't have to live on a, what should we call it? I call it craft dinner budget. Not everyone will know what craft dinner is maybe. And know what does a really good life mean for you, right? What really are the priorities that you want to set for yourself and your family going forward?
And meaningful work, but also work that allows you to be who you are and grow in the way that you see for yourself. That's so important to your quality of life and the determinants of happiness. So digital age is going to give you a lot more knowledge. I'm so grateful that we live in this age where there are global opportunities for ESG investing. That's something I like to think about. So that's the environmental, social, and governance based investing that can be part of your future planning. There's just so many more opportunities.
The advice the end of the day is wherever you're at today, just start. It starts with one step. Whatever you can put aside, start doing that. Pay yourself first, I think was old advice. I don't know if that was from the wealthy barber, but that's how old I am. And when you need help, there is help available and take advantage of the advantages. Thanks.
Preya Singh-Cushnie: Dr. Karlinsky, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure to have this chat with you and to learn more about you and to hear from you and your experience. And I want to thank everyone listening to the Financial Checkup. If you are an Ontario physician, please do check out the Advantages Retirement Plan at omaininsurance.com/retire. For more tips, educational and material, to help you with your retirement readiness and to Dr. Karlinksky's point, we do have OMA Insurance advisors who are willing and able to help you when you do make that decision that you want to learn more about the program. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: The financial checkup series is produced in collaboration with OMA Insurance and Commonwealth, the administration and technology partner for the Advantages Retirement Plan.