Preparing for Retirement Featuring Dr. Sohail Gandhi

What will retirement look like for you? In Episode 7 of the Financial Checkup, we talk with Dr. Sohail Gandhi, one-time president of the OMA. He shares what retirement looks like to him and how he’s preparing for the retired life.

Transcript

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Dr. Gandhi: For your retirement, if you want to retire, put a certain amount of money aside every month, and just only invest in that. If you happen to be lucky enough to have extra money and you want to try these wild gambles, do that. And I think that was very sage advice.

Speaker 2: Welcome to The Financial Checkup, a podcast series devoted to improving the financial health and retirement readiness of physicians and their spouses or common law partners. This series is brought to you by the award-winning advantages retirement plan from OMA insurance.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Hello, everyone. I'm Preya Singh-Cushnie, director at OMA insurance, plan sponsor of the award-winning advantages retirement plan for Ontario doctors. This program is the first of its kind, group retirement savings plan designed to help physicians and their spouse or common law partners. The purpose of the program is to provide medical students, residents and physicians, a way to begin saving for the retirement at any stage of their life and career. The retirement talk series is where we invite physicians from across the province to get personal with us on what retirement will look like for them, and to share with us how they're preparing for that next phase. In this episode, we are excited to welcome Dr. Sohail Gandhi, past president of the interior medical association. Welcome, Dr. Gandhi. Thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Gandhi: It is always a pleasure there, Preya.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Great. And how are you doing today?

Dr. Gandhi: I'm doing very well, actually. We're still in the midst of the pandemic, but it looks like we're coming out of wave three as we talk. And that gives me hope, so I feel good.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Excellent. Great to hear that. And so before we dive into our conversation today, more focused on retirement, I'd love for you to take a few moments to share with us about yourself. Perhaps telling us just what led you to becoming a physician and any other interesting facts that you'd like to share.

Dr. Gandhi: So, I am addition towards... I guess, towards the end of my career now. I've been a family physician for 29 years in the town of Stayner, Ontario, which is a town of 4,000 people. I decided to become a physician when I was in high school. I thought that was a really noble profession to be, and I still feel it is a very noble profession. And I got into it because I genuinely wanted to help other people. I was taught by my grandfather who was one of my role models, if not my main role model, that is really important to always help other people. And this seemed to me to be an ideal profession to do that in.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: That is excellent. It is always interesting to see who inspires you to take flight in this journey because it definitely very noble cause, and a number of years of studying to be in the profession and a journey, would you say?

Dr. Gandhi: Yeah, absolutely. It was a little different in my time because when I got into med school... And this will certainly date me, but you could get into university or you could get into medical school after only two years of university, so you didn't even have to have a bachelor's degree. And I was fortunate enough to be in that group. And you could get into a practice after only doing one year of internship. I actually did a residency in family practice, so I did my two years. But it was certainly a different time. And it has been neat to see how medicine has evolved over the past 30 years.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Oh my goodness! That is fascinating. I'm sure any of the medical students or residents listening to our talk today are going, What! So definitely, it has evolved over time. But to your point, it definitely has come a long way. So is there any other interesting facts that you'd like to share with us about yourself, on a personal note?

Dr. Gandhi: Yeah. So, I am... As I said, small town family physician, so I still consider myself a rural family physician. I go to the hospital every morning, see my patients in hospital, then go to wherever I go to. I spend most of my time trying to keep my four sons in line. I'm failing spectacularly at that task, but I keep continue to keep trying. And I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where spending a lot of time outdoors is actually easy to do and I rather enjoy that. And it can be anything as simple as bicycling to the office on the trail that runs from my house right to my office, or it can be skiing in the winter and snow showing. So it is nice to be able to just spend time outside, I really enjoy that.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: That is awesome. And I give you kudos for raising four young men, I know that is no easy feat. So congratulations to you on that journey. And also, just being able to have that work-life balance. It sounds like with the outdoors, it is really important. So, that is interesting. So what we'll look at just other physicians that are thinking about retirement and just Canadians in general, what we know is that there is some professions that have the luxury of being able to plan and prepare and start that process of winding down their business or practice ahead of time. And some, it is just a journey and you get to an age and you then are retiring. So can you tell us in terms of your practice and what you're doing in your practice today, what are your thoughts about the next chapter of your life? Have you thought about that succession planning piece and what that looks like for you?

Dr. Gandhi: So, I'm fortunate in that I still have about... I feel like I have about 10 good years left in me still, as far as succession planning goes. So in terms of me actually having decided, Okay, I need to find someone or how I'm going to start to recruit from things, I'm still at the stage where I can sit back and say, So much has changed over 30 years in terms of how physicians treat people, in terms of how physicians offices are run, in terms of what is required us as physicians. That I think it would be a little bit premature for me to do that, but I do think it is important for everyone. Not just me, but for everyone to at least have an idea, even when they start their careers in terms of saying, If things are ideal and if everything goes the way I'd like to, I could see myself working until X age. And then at X age, whatever X happens to be, I'd start to slow down because that really helps you to plan a little bit better.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: That is interesting that you say that because it is definitely ideal when you're looking at the time horizon and just looking at where you are in your particular stage in life and in your career to see what that looks like. And one of the things that we looked at when we were evaluating group retirement savings plan for all made members was just a research. And so, just discovering that about 40% of physicians that responded to the research between the ages of 50 and 64, really felt that they were not confident and that they would have enough money to maintain their current lifestyle in the retirement years. And so just thinking about that a little bit, because it is a pretty high number, what do you think is leads to that? Is it just not enough time or just a lot of priorities happening? What would be your thoughts on that confidence not being there that they'll be able to maintain the same lifestyle?

Dr. Gandhi: Yeah. Well, I'll tell you the number that actually surprised me even more than that number, Preya. When I was president... And I remember looking through all the data that you had provided on the survey results, what really shocked me is that 25% of the people who were inquiring... 25% of the physicians, I should say, who are inquiring about the advantages program were already aged 65 and above, right? And these are people who should not be inquiring about that program. These are people that should already have some pocket of funds in some way put aside to provide for retirement. So, I found that number even more shocking.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: That is very true in a very telling because you're absolutely right. We did find that once the program launched under your leadership in 2020, that we had a number of retired physicians calling us and saying, "Where was this when I was actively working? And it would've been great if the OMA had this earlier." So it is definitely interesting to see that number is very high. And when you look at that, what would be your thoughts or views to physicians who are in that demographic or approaching? What would be your views on what they can do to maybe look at that journey for the next phase?

Dr. Gandhi: Yeah. So a couple of things, I think that to a first point that you'd asked that I don't think I got a chance to answer, which I think is also a very important question. I think we need to recognize as a profession that most of us, not all of us, we have some very, very bright financial gurus in our profession, and all power to them and congratulations on being that financially literate. But for the most part, we all tired, right?

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Right.

Dr. Gandhi: We're overworked. We are all working 60-65 hours a week to begin with, and that is before we look at call responsibilities on top of that. And it is all well for financial advisors and gurus to come to you and say, "Okay, you're someone who has got a decent income compared to the rest of society. Hey, guess what, we can help you make all sorts of money. All you have to do is spend half an hour a week, looking at your finance." Spend a half an hour every Sunday, looking at your financial situation and review it. I have to tell you, physicians don't even have that half an hour for the most part, right?

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Right.

Dr. Gandhi: We just don't have that time. And most of us don't really have the financial literacy, some do, but most of us really don't. And what is really important to help us would be to have our organization support us to provide a service where you can just say, Okay, you know what? I can afford to put in X number of dollars a month. Whatever that number happens to be because it is going to be different for different people. I will put X dollars amount a month away. And I know that when I hit 65, or most physicians were prior when they're 70 or whatever age, that means that I will be guaranteed X amount of income every month for the rest of my life, right? That is the kind of thing that physicians really need. And unfortunately, we've never had that until now, where we have the services that you can provide that will allow us to have that kind of guarantee and that kind of support.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Absolutely. Yeah. And that is very interesting point because those were key criteria that also came out in the researches, having something that was easy, right? Quick, flexible, because time is of the essence. And when you're starved for time because you're busy taking care of patients and doing the good work that physicians do in the province, it is very hard to find that 5-10 minutes to your point. So, creating the advantages retirement plan was looking at flexibility and making something easy online, available 24 hours, seven days a week. So that physicians have that control, they can go in, poke around, read. If they need help, contact one of my team members at OMA insurance advisor to get some assistance.

 And to your point, the along awaited guaranteed lifetime income product was recently launched two weeks ago. And the influx of calls have actually gone up. And it is thinking about longevity and thinking about outliving your money. And so with this guaranteed lifetime income piece, we're trying to protect that, give physicians an opportunity to purchase some of that guaranteed lifetime income that is going to outlive or outlast if you will, their life. So, very important piece. And when you think about your own retirement, when you decide 10 years from now that it is time, what does that look like for you? What is your vision?

Dr. Gandhi: So my personal vision is that I will have enough money that has been put away. That there will be during my retirement, a reasonable income. I won't need as much then as I do now, because hopefully by that time, the kids will be all grown up and out of the house and no longer in university. But that will allow me to be comfortable, I'm not looking... I'm personally not looking to own a yacht or have a private airplane or some such thing, but to allow me to just live comfortably, take a couple of trips every year, have a vehicle where I can drive around different parts of Ontario, because I really enjoyed doing that when I was president of the OMA, those kind of things are really important to me. And I don't want to have to worry, I want a certain amount of money deposited into my bank account on the first or 15th or whatever day of the month it happens to be. And know that money will be there every single month so that I can do those simple things that I'd like to do.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: That is excellent. And so when you're thinking of that vision and having that ideal view, what plans have you put in place today to help you with realizing that goal in your retirement?

Dr. Gandhi: In terms of planning, I think that I've been through the different financial advisors and stuff in the past, all of whom were very well meaning and all of whom certainly were very well qualified, but all of whom also... They also wanted to make money. They wanted to give me good advice because if they give good advice, they make money as well. But also who required... Again, it is the time aspect, right? They offered online booking and stuff or an online looking at your information and stuff and all of that. But all of whom required me to go through, these are the stocks that you've got now or these are the funds that you own now, and this is how you track the funds and this is how you see the progress and all this is who you call if you think the progress isn't, what it should've, all that. It was time, right?

There is just that extra time that was involved. And that is why I'm... As you know, I'm a member of the advantages of timer program. I've got income that goes in there and it is just, I'm putting the money away. Some professional who is taking a very low margin and Preya, you know what the points are on it. I don't even know, but I know they're the lowest around, is investing that and is making the money for me. And there is just a sense of security, right? That when I decide, Okay, it is time for me to stop working, there is a sense of security that there'll be funds there. And I will have a monthly income that is going to carry me on through my later years in life.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Excellent. And you know what? It is to your point, the idea of looking at your own portfolio and trying to pick your stocks or read up on this fact sheet, this fun fact file, it all becomes a lot and it can be quite daunting to try and figure that out while also doing your regular day job. So definitely fees were considered sit quite closely when we created this program because it was one of the pillars that differentiates the plan. And using the buying power of OMA insurance group, insurance product, we were able to negotiate a very cost effective and low fee for the group retirement savings plan. Only insurances program has been around for 65 years. So building on that success is what allowed us to launch and provide this program, which is as close as we can get to a pension like plan.

And so when you think about just all of those things of easy... Someone is looking out for you, governance is also a big important factor for OMA members. So we do have that advantages retirement plan investment committee that has a complete oversight, industry experts to make sure that you do receive that value and that return when you're ready to take that income. So definitely took into consideration those pieces. And so it is important that we're listening. And so Dr. Gandhi, it is great to hear you say that because when thinking about that next step and how you prepare, from your experience and looking at your peers and colleagues that are probably in the same situation where they've got families, they've got practice, right? What would be any advice that you would tell them when it comes... Well, not even advice. I would say, what would be your view? What would you want to share in part on them that made you join the program?

Dr. Gandhi: I think the best advice that I could give would again, be that it is really important to recognize that if the company that you are working with for your retirement, whatever organization there is. If they are an organization that is supported by your own membership organization, then I think the value that you're going to get out of it is going to be higher. I think that it is important to realize that one of the most successful products that we've actually had as far as the Ontario medical association goes, and it is through our subsidiary at OMA insurance, of course, is the disability insurance policies, right? Those policies have been around for a number of years and they've been lauded for reasonable rates, they've been lauded for not gouging physician members. And that is because they're run by a subsidiary of the OMA whose role is to protect physicians and to have physicians' backs.

And I think the same concept should apply to the retirement. If the retirement funds are run by a subsidiary of the OMA or governed or overseen or whatever the legal term is because I don't want to get tripped up by the legal terms, then there should be that same level of confidence that these are low cost, high value products that will provide an income for you. I've got some peers who buy... Was it the Motley fool or something or some investment magazine?

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Yeah.

Dr. Gandhi: And are going through this all the time. And some stocks hit and some stocks miss and... You can do that kind of stuff. And if you're... Again, if you are one of those few physician members, I got to tell you, there really aren't that many who are financially very literate and financially really bright, then absolutely go do that kind of stuff. But most of us truly just aren't really good at it. And we should go to an organization that really has a history of supporting us, having our backs, who our own memberships dues go to support and that we'll look after us properly.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Thank you for that. It definitely... The organization is being responsive and just focusing on the values of the old may of being innovative and bold, putting those two core values in play by offering this program is really trying to capture everything you just mentioned. And to be able to provide that as the subsidiary, OMA insurance that is, it just builds on the long tenured history of other risk management products we've been providing just to make sure that... Physicians are busy and they're taking care of patients and you know this more than anyone else. Who is taking care of you, right? So that is why OMA insurance and OMA wants to look at that piece, like taking care of yourself first, because often, physicians are not thinking of themselves as their number one asset.

So you have to protect your number one asset, which is you. And so, that is the entire purpose of... When you look at the journey of building your career, getting into practice, thinking about succession planning, which we talked about and then where you are right now, it sounds like you're well under on your way. Dr. Gandhi, is there any last words or comments that you would like to share as a parting note, before we wrap up today?

Dr. Gandhi: Probably the best piece of financial advice that I got was from a preceptor that I had when I was a resident. And what the preceptor emphasized to me was that there would be rather a lot of people who will approach you as a physician. A lot of... And in fairness there, well, meaning no one actually or very few of them actually want to do you harm. But people who will have all sorts of financial advice, stock tip advice, advice on how to invest your money in foreign currencies and all this kind of stuff. And he just said that if you're not careful, you're going to learn the hard way that you're really not as... Just because you're a physician, doesn't mean that you're a financial advisor. And just because you're a physician, doesn't mean that you can day trade properly. Very, very few of us can.

And at the time, the only thing that was available for him and for people in that era was to try and invest in funds that were indexed to the Toronto stock exchange 35. And he just said, "Just for your retirement... If you want to retire, put a certain amount of money aside every month and just only invest in that. If you happen to be lucky enough to have extra money and you want to try these wild gambles, do that." And I think that was very sage advice for the time because he pointed out that there are all these traps that you can fall into as a physician. Now of course, we have this great new product, which is supported by the OMA and Ooma insurance, which is an organization that is designed to work for physicians and only work for physicians.

So now, we physicians have this other option where the retirement money that they want, they can put aside through OMA insurance. And if they really want to try being financial wizards and make killings on day trading or whatever, then you can do that with extra money that you may or may not have. But your retirement income should go into something that is reasonably safe, reasonably conservative. And it'll get you there.

Preya Singh-Cushnie: Thank you for that. A hundred percent, it is... There is the money that you need to set, forget, let it do its thing and be secure. And then there is the play money, the money that can spend and maybe not be too worried about if you have some losses there. I do want to say, thank you so much Dr. Gandhi, for your time today. It has been a pleasure speaking with you, getting to know you better and getting your perspective on retirement readiness for yourself. And for those listening, thank you so much for listening to The Financial Checkup. If you are an Ontario physician, do check out the advantages retirement plan program @oomainsurance.com/retire, for more tips, education and to engage with an OMA insurance advisor for any other educational pieces or information that you need. Thank you so much in wishing everyone a wonderful day.

Speaker 2:  The financial checkup series is producing collaboration with OMA insurance and Commonwealth, the administration and technology partner for the advantages retirement plan.