Welcome to Crossings Conversations. Recently, we asked for stories about the impact of CDSP’s innovative low-residence Hybrid Program. We heard about increased access and flexibility, rigorous theological and spiritual formation, and the power of learning both in the student’s local context and connected to a tight-knit community of peers.
Today, hear a portion of that conversation with a 2021 graduate, The Rev. Dr. Joél Muñoz, Curate at St. Francis-in-the-Fields Episcopal Church in Zionsville, IN. He shared with us his experience, which enabled him to pursue studies while also serving as an educator and principal at a local middle school. We are grateful for his time with us
Welcome to Crossings Conversations. Recently, we asked for stories about the impact of CDSP’s innovative low-residence Hybrid Program. We heard about increased access and flexibility, rigorous theological and spiritual formation, and the power of learning both in the student’s local context and connected to a tight-knit community of peers.
Today, hear a portion of that conversation with a 2021 graduate, The Rev. Dr. Joél Muñoz, Curate at St. Francis-in-the-Fields Episcopal Church in Zionsville, IN. He shared with us his experience, which enabled him to pursue studies while also serving as an educator and principal at a local middle school. We are grateful for his time with us
Greg Klimovitz: Welcome to Crossings Conversations, this is Greg Klimovitz of Learning Forte and on Contract with Church Divinity School of the Pacific. Recently,. we asked for stories about the impact of CDSP’s innovative low-residence Hybrid Program. We heard about increased access and flexibility, rigorous theological and spiritual formation, and the power of learning both in the student’s local context and connected to a tight-knit community of peers.
Today, hear a portion of that conversation with a 2021 graduate, The Rev. Dr. Joél Muñoz, Curate at St. Francis-in-the-Fields Episcopal Church in Zionsville, IN. He shared with us his experience, which enabled him to pursue studies while also serving as an educator and principal at a local middle school. We are grateful for his time with us
Greg: In a sentence or two, how would you describe the way the low residence program at CDSP has impacted your life and ministry?
Joél Muñoz: Sure. The low res program at CDSP gave me the tools that I needed,the background, the foundation that I needed in order to successfully go into ordained ministry. In my current setting it helped prepare me by giving me the background I needed, but also it connected me with leaders and mentors who I still connect with today as I have begun ministry at St. Francis in the field in Zionsville.
Greg: What life and ministry circumstances led you to enroll in the low res program at CDSP? I mean, you could have chose any options for seminary, why the low re program at CDSP?
Joel: Well, at the time, I served as the principal of Lincoln Middle School in Indianapolis, Indiana. And so, I was not in a place where I could uproot and leave Indiana. My husband was also in a doctoral program here in Indiana. So we were both navigating school while working full-time careers and. So when I came across the fact that I could complete this program in a low residential setting it was a perfect fit. It allowed me to continue to do the work in my school community while still maintaining a connection with my church community here in Indianapolis within my diocese [and] continuing with my educational studies and then allowing at home personally for my husband and I to both attend school while maintaining residence in Indiana.
Greg: So would you consider yourself multi vocational or a multi-site ministry leader?
Joel: I would definitely consider myself a bivocational serving both in the congregation but also continuing to serve in the K-12 setting and public education in Indiana.
Greg: In what way do you see the educational experience you had with CDSP intersecting with your identification as a bi-vocational person?
Joel: Well, I think that in my journey at CDSP, part of that formation that I received actually opened up the window for by vocational work. And seeing how ministry doesn't have to be done the traditional way that we've known ministry to be. I could do ministry, thinking outside the box while also continuing to serve the K-12 world of education here in my state.
Greg: Was there a particular experience or even a story you could tell us that affirmed that?
Joel: I actually took a course called the Gospel of the Masses at CDSP and that course itself, it was providing spiritual care for the marginalized. Those two courses, it opened for me, the world. It just opened the world for me in, in a different way, in ways that I hadn't looked at it before and seen how the work we do in ministry goes beyond the four walls of the church and into the world in which we serve. Those two courses [were] foundational for me in the ministry that I'm doing now.
Greg: For someone who's had such a strong professional background as yourself to then discern a call, as you will to what you're doing now, how did your understanding of that calling deepen in your work, your studies through the CDSP program?
Joel: I would say it's multilayered from the standpoint of while being at CDSP, my way of understanding ministry and the work that I actually did at the time as a school leader, I was pushed and challenged to think in new ways and grow in new ways as to how ministry is, is done in within the community, but then in ways that I could apply what I was learning.
In my program right then and there in the ministry I was doing, serving my school community. So think from that standpoint it really did challenge me to grow. And it wasn't one of these, here's a theory and we're going to just think about it. I was gonna go as soon as I finished my course, I was applying it as I worked with the families, the students, the community, the faculty of the school.
Greg: That's been one of my favorite things to hear from folks, how your context and your community became a direct learning lab or practicum for what you were engaging in the classroom. Was there a particular experience that you had where that was true?
Joel: I would say what's interesting, I took a course called, “White Supremacy in the Bible,” and at the time I was also leading a book study with my faculty. As a professional development, we were reading, Dr. Kendi’s book, How to Be an Anti-Racist. And so seeing how both the work I was doing in seminary and the work I was doing in preparing our educators and growing them and challenging their thinking, how those two came together and looking at just ethically the work that we do, the importance of the work we do, and ensuring a safe and an equitable learning environment for all students. I mean, for me it just showed that, you know, we're not separating like this ministry as an important work and that we're doing within the community. And so, you know, I think if I wouldn't have had this opportunity to complete this low residence program I would've gone to a traditional seminary. I wouldn't have had this opportunity to have my community as you mentioned.
Greg: I love it. I love it. And I mean, a side note, I can't think of a better intersection right now of someone with your gifts holding. The work you're doing in the church with education. I don't know the dynamics of where you are in that space, but I just wanted to take a moment and just say I'm grateful for that.
Joel: Thank you.
Greg: The other way around? How did your relationship to your local communities impact your studies?
Joel: Oh, for sure. Well, I think for me, I have such an involvement in my community and so having that relationship where I had already built a relationship with, with my school community, with my faculty, Of one of trust and one of, , of knowing that anything that I was going to bring to our staff is for the betterment of the services that we provide to our students and to help support our, our, our educators, I think was, was, is huge.
Joel: I served as the principal of a middle school with about 1100 students. The majority, 65% African American, 25% Latino. We represented a lot of different countries and languages and we had a large percentage of families who were new to our country and were navigating the school system for the first time in the U.S. I had a handful of students who came to the school during this time, who had been in the detention centers, were refugees and had been held at the detention centers at the border. I think that was where I was called to be at the time for the work. I was doing it while also continuing my seminary study. So it was, I was at the right place to do this important work in the community. I think for us, it made it so real because being the principal who was bilingual, I would often help our registrar and seeing the paperwork of the children who had been released. And seeing how many days they had been detained at a detention center, 70, 80, 90 days. I am looking at the face of a 11 year old, a 12 year old who came unaccompanied to the U.S. and they're enrolling in schools. Just made it all, all so real at a different level, but also made the work that was being done even more important.
Greg: And so you communicate that in a classroom setting and saying, this is, you can preach all you want, but this is what matters. How is your theological education and practical ministry experience impacted not just by your community or this academy, but what about the cohort of students that you're learning alongside? You've got folks from all over that are bringing in their various learning labs and contexts. How did that impact your studies?
Joel: I think that it further enriched my studies for me personally because, you're right, that's exactly right, we were all in different parts of the U.S. in different settings and were able to connect and share. We were doing different work and that work that we were sharing with each other, challenged our thinking or encouraged the work that we were doing. And so I know initially I wondered how this cohort would work, the cohort model with us living in different places. However, we stuck to having a date and time that we always got to the point where we really counted on that time together because it was so important for us.
It was very valuable time where we could share ideas, we could share challenges, we could just come together and pray together and be together supporting one another in this program. And so hearing the different work that others were doing in my cohort, I think for me, helped me to also see just the different work that is being done, the different ministries that are possible. And I think it pushed us all a little bit, a little bit more.
Greg: What about the formative interactions and relationships with the other students? I mean, the context is one thing. We've heard from other folks talking about the general relationships they've had formed and shaped and have sustained even after graduation.
Joel: Yep. I would say that that holds true to me as well. I have from seminary still kept many friendships and relationships with individuals. From the cohort, but even outside the cohort with those who were in my courses who I either did some classwork with or just really connected with when looking at the ministries and work that we were being called to do. And then the rest was with us. And because,I would say of those who were in my cohort, I don't know how the cohorts were selected, those who were my cohort were in the majority of my classes. And so we were able to, you know, connect in class, check in outside of class even when we didn't have these scheduled meetings to check in with each other. And I still keep in touch with many of the individuals who I connected with, even now post seminary. And so we've been to each other's ordinations as well. And so it's, it has been a family dynamic.
Greg: I love that. So what year did you graduate?
Joel: So I graduated last year, so 2021.
Greg: So it hasn't been that long, but since graduation, how has your educational low rise program impacted what you're doing now?
Joel: Well, I would say that as I finished the low res program, and I finished my studies and was ordained, I really wasn't sure what to expect. As I've transitioned to St. Francis in the Field in Zionsville, I have jumped into ministry with a very strong foundation, with tools and the educational background that I was provided at CDSP. I'm leading adult formations and youth formation and outreach work and I have mentors. They have been very helpful. But at the core of it, I have a very strong foundation from my seminary.
Greg: Can you describe the impact of your studies on you as a leader, particularly as a leader since graduating from CDSP?
Joel: I would say that since finishing seminary, I look at my impact as a leader in my church community, CDSP helped me to see ministry from a different lens, thinking outside of the four walls of the church, thinking of finding ways of connecting with the community and creating a welcoming environment, welcoming space for everyone. So seeing ministry from different lenses has been something that I wouldn't have, I don't think I would've gone into ministry, with this new perspective had I not been CDSP. But the big takeaway is welcoming everyone and creating that welcoming space for all.
Greg: So I am so glad that we have folks like you in Indianapolis, or at least in that part of our country.
Joel: Thank you. It's a lot of work, but you know as we get people, more people involved in the work, you know, makes the work of everyone a little bit easier.