GMP Ep 120 Jason Wolff

Jason Wolff is an Independent Candidate for Bexar County District Attorney. A 7th generation San Antonian, Jason is a Summa Cum Laude graduate of U.T.S.A., an Honors graduate from U.T. Law, and has over 250 jury trials to verdict combined as a Criminal Asst. District Attorney, Bexar County Court at Law Criminal Judge and a Criminal Defense Attorney.

https://www.tiredofthiscrap.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I bring in the officer, I watch a video, and I bring in the officer, and it was this white officer, UTSA officer. And he says, Here's the fact pattern. He says, Well, I was walking, I was walking, not in my patrol car, and she kind of went through the crosswalk with some students in there. So I wanted her to pull over so I could give her a ticket, and I bang on the back of the car and I tell her to pull over. And she didn't park in this space. She parked like two extra spaces from the one that I wanted her to park in. Evading in a vehicle. He goes up and he stands with, and that's not even close to evading in a vehicle. It's ridiculous charge.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

So can I get evading in a vehicle if I if I'm getting pulled over, but I want to find a safe place so I keep going for an hour?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Potentially, yeah, potentially. People use that argument a lot, like I wanted a safe place. But this was not evading in a vehicle. Literally, two parking spaces over from where he had wanted her to pull over, despite the fact he didn't say that. So he this idiot stands next to her window and he's yelling at her, right? Yelling at her. He has his foot under her front tire. She rolls forward a little bit onto his foot. He drags her out of that vehicle, he charges her with aggravated assault on a public servant because the dumbass had his foot too close to her tire. When he came in, he says, you know, yeah, I was watching all these pretty girls watch walking through the crosswalk. He was a racist piece of shit. He had too much power. I dismissed those charges. This this and she went on to graduate, get her nursing license. I don't know, you know, but I'm in my heart, I believe she saved people. Um, but she would have lost all of that. So it wasn't about numbers to me. It will never be about numbers to me. It's about what is the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

You're listening to the Gabe Melina podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

Jason Wolf, welcome to the podcast, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_05 1:55

Like I told you before, uh I feel like you're TikTok famous. Um you know, my friend Kitly told me about your page and and uh she follows you and she just texts me, she was like, He's he's great. Uh uh so I started following you on TikTok, and it was interesting because uh a lot of the content is uh has some playfulness to it, but there's also a lot of seriousness to it. You know, I feel like uh politics, and maybe it's because I'm getting older, I don't know, but I feel like politics are so much more prevalent in people's lives than what it used to be. Uh at least I feel that way. Uh I feel like everything's politics all the time, and people start watching that kind of thing. Less of what does this political figure uh what are they gonna do that's gonna impact me? And more so, do I like them and am I gonna like their content, you know? And so I know you're running for district attorney in Bear County, right? Uh, which is a big job. Uh there's a handful of other folks running too, right? There's even there's a guy who's in there currently, he's still running as well, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

No, Joe Gonzalez has uh did two terms and he says I'm not gonna run anymore. So it resulted in about eight candidates on the Democratic ticket. Uh it's been narrowed down to two. There's gonna be a runoff on May 26th between the two Democratic candidates, and then there'll be a Republican candidate, and I'm running as an independent. So yeah, I'm doing something very different. I don't think it's ever been done here in Bear County before. It's gonna take threading the needle from a hundred yards out, but I think if there's ever a time, you know, just kind of what you're saying, um, politics is more in our lives. Maybe we're paying attention for the wrong reasons. I feel like a lot of politicians are making statements or things that are dividing us to get that attention. And um, I just want to bring us all back to the middle. Uh being a district attorney is about enforcing the law. It really shouldn't be what party you're affiliated with. When I was a judge, it was you know following the law, being a district attorney enforcing the law. I just kind of I kind of want to remind us all that we're all human beings, you know? And at the end of the day, we want to be back with our families, be with the ones that we love. We want to go out in our community, we want to be able to enjoy ourselves, spend whatever money we have left over. And um, that's really what it comes down to, being safe and and not dividing us. We're all so divided. And so that's really why I'm running as an independent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:20

Well, you know what's interesting is I feel like politics, uh, whether it's a Democrat or Republican, a lot of times, and you can go back to old YouTube videos, thank God for thank God for YouTube. But it's like if the Democrat says that the sky's blue, the Republican's gonna say it's red. Until the Republic until the Democrat says it's red, and then the Republicans gonna say no, it's blue. Yeah. And it's like this weird game that they play with each other, and we just have to sit and watch it.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah, and you know, a lot of the candidates that, you know, there was eight that were, like I said, they're down to two. There's gonna be a Republican candidate. And I was amazed that listening to how often they would say, I've only voted Democrat, I've only voted Republican my entire life, like that was a badge of honor, and I don't understand how that makes them an effective leader, how that allows them to represent a county filled of Republicans, Democrats, independents, liberals, you you you name it at some point, you have to represent everybody. So I don't know. I think they're just catering to the base. I will tell you in Bear County, the Democrats have won the last few elections. I I don't think a Republican's going to win. Um they have been just shellacked, and that's just basically there's more Democrat voters in Bear County. But uh to just preach to that one party or to the that one mindset, I think is doing a disservice to to not only that party itself, but to everybody that lives in that county. So that's an another reason why I want to separate party. I want to I want people to put person over party.

SPEAKER_05 5:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Let's look at experience, let's look at what they've done with their lives. Why are they running really? Why are they running? Are they just looking to get another paycheck uh from the one that they lost previously? And we can talk more about the the candidates that are still in there. Um so yeah, and and even before that, you know, I'm not a lot of people are willing to say this, but I'm I'm saying let's put God before person and person before party. I think we are here for a reason. I think this is a test for all of us, and uh how we perform in this life probably affects how we uh our spirit evolves throughout the eons, and I know I'm getting a little out there, but really I think this is a test. And so if we can just kind of come back to the simple things, and that is we are all human beings. We've got to try to get along with one another, try to love one another as best we can. And you know, there's evil in this world, sure, and we have to deal with that. And and so if we can just get back to basics and and stop separating us, you know, I grew up in a well, I grew up in a Republican household, but my uncle Nelson Wolfe is Democrat. He was a longtime figure in Bear County, and he's still got his hand in politics, and you know, he's actually supporting the uh Democratic candidate. And I reached out to him when I was thinking about running, and I said, hey, you know, look, I I get if you can't endorse me, I'm not asking for your endorsement. I'm just, you know, can you just kind of step back on this one and let the voters decide? And at that time, uh he was supporting, I call him Trey Opportunity Fisher instead of Trey Martinez Fisher. But he's like, oh, well, he's a good friend of mine. And I thought, well, okay, I'm I'm family. And uh ultimately Trey backed out. And then now you've got Luce Elena Chapa who uh he's endorsed. And you know, she she's never been a prosecutor before. She's never tried a case in her life. She was a an appellate judge for several years. She kind of graded papers, she never called balls and strikes.

SPEAKER_05 7:47

And what is a an appellate judge?

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Appellate judge just um, you know, when trial lawyers or uh try a case when the judge makes rulings, and if the defendant or a civil litigant says, I think the judge made a mistake, they can appeal it up to the next level court and say, hey, you guys take a look at this. Most case law is decided. There's very rare novel new things that come up. Um most of these are you know cut and paste, to be honest with you. If you are I mean, it does require some real thinking at times, but you know, to sit there and have the time and drink your coffee and and look back and you know, hindsight is 2020, but when you're in the action as the lawyer, when you're in the action as a judge, and I was a judge for eight years on the bench and as a previous prosecutor who's tried murders and capital murders, um, I've had over 250 jury trials in those roles. So for somebody to come in and say that they're gonna blow up the DA's office, that it's dysfunctional all the way down to the to the frontline prosecutors is just a misunderstanding of how the justice system really works. And it's ego-driven to think that you can come in and actually several hundred attorneys tell them how to handle things when she's never handled it herself. And so he's so that's who he's supporting, and it was just really disheartening for me. You know, I didn't ask for his endorsement, but it really opened my eyes, and I said, okay, well, game on. You know, this is how politics works, and if you're not on the inside, you're on the outside, and that machine's gonna try to chew you up and spit you out. And so since then, there have been other entities that have gotten on board. There's the San Antonio Police Officers Association, the Bear County Sheriff's Office Association, they are endorsing her as well. Even if it wasn't me, I told those people that were interviewing us all there were really many, many qualified candidates on the Democratic ticket who had tried several cases, had been prosecutors, but it just shows me that it's the insider's game. And they look at somebody who they think, okay, well, you know, she's got uh she's got a good look, it's uh female Latina, and they've been on a pretty good run here in Bear County. And listen, I'm married to a woman from Guadalajara, Mexico. So this isn't about race or gender or anything like that, but the track record has been there for Latinas. Predominantly, most of the judges in Bear County now are Latinas. So I think they are just like, well, we don't want to look bad, we want to pick who we think is the winner, not who the most qualified candidate is. So that to me is what really kind of got me into the race and got me thinking about running because you know I practice in those courts and I've seen the district attorney's office just kind of go downhill with Joe Gonzalez, who's the current prosecutor, current DA. Um, he was given over a million dollars by George Soros, and that's kind of how he got, you know, the notoriety to win that position. I worked with him for the first four years after I lost my bench in 2018, and I realized along the way that it was more about what the media was going to say rather than doing what the right thing was. He took the discretion away from a lot of the prosecutors, and I want to bring that back. I want to give these prosecutors the discretion that they deserve. They need training. The young ones need the training, need to get rid of the backlog, and willing to say that, hey, this case is crap. I'm not filing this case, I'm not gonna clog up the justice system when we have real victims who need attention. So there was a number of reasons why I jumped in and ran, but um predominantly it's I wanna I wanna fix the DA's office, and I know how to do it. You know, I've been a defense attorney now for four years, a judge for eight years, prosecutor for ten years. I don't want somebody in there that's gonna have to have training wheels, or somebody that's been institutionalized. The other candidate that's left on the Democratic ticket is Jane Davis. She's w worked uh for over 40 years for I can't remember how many prosecutors she says she's worked for, six, seven different prose DAs. Um, she's not seen the whole big picture and she's wants to say, Well, I'm I'm a chief here with Joe Gonzales and just choose me and everything will change and the DA's office will be great again. You know, my argument is if she's had all these wonderful ideas, why hasn't she implemented them? Why hasn't Joe implemented them? So I just think there is a poor slate of candidates. And I mean, I think I can do the job.

SPEAKER_05 11:56

You know, you know, one thing that I find interesting is like uh I feel like there's a uh I feel like John Q. Public, the rest of us sit there and go, we we don't have a lot of faith in the electoral system and the candidates who run. You know, even on the on the all the way up to the presidency, right? You know, we talked a little bit earlier about Trump and Kamala running. You know, Kamala was running for president and she never won an election ever. You know, I think that you know, you see a lot of what happened, and these are my own opinions, but you know, when you sit there and you look at the uh initial uh Biden when Biden won initially, you know, you see the the spike in votes in I think it was Michigan or or Wisconsin in the middle of the night. You know, you hear about uh all of a sudden all these uh uh ballots start showing up in Georgia. Uh, you know, I played that video for you with Jasmine Crockett talking about being one of the the five hundred and something most powerful people in the country and she needs respect for that purpose, you know, and it's very irritating because you sit there and you see the political game being played and you feel like you can't do anything about it. You know, you just gotta watch these people play the political political game and they go along with it and and you're left with whatever the outcome is, you know. The DA spot is something where that impacts everybody, right? I don't want I don't want somebody to be not not even just voting, but somebody who to run for that spot because they fit a narrative or they fit an idea of what the city wants to present to people, you know, these people are gonna be judging the population, you know, and and it always bot it it always reminds me of like uh and and I keep things super simple in my brain, but like in school when you they started going to this whole uh painting everything with a broad brush, right? And it was like instead of looking at the indiv individuals and the situation that they were in, yeah, it's like, oh no, we're just gonna handle all these the same way.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 14:02

And that's not how I would want to be treated if I was on trial.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

I I think that that's what's happening is we are we are identifying people based on party affiliation, and we're saying, well, then I know what's in your heart and I know who you are, and with this big broad brush, when nothing could be further from the truth. And you know, people used to be able to have uh talks and could talk about politics and and you know break bread together. Well, now it's like get out of my house or I'm not your friend anymore. And it works both ways. Um, and and I think getting just back to basics can be where we can start from again. If we can just look to what the role is and the role of a district attorney, and you know, maybe people don't really know what the district attorney does. The district attorney says, Okay, look, law enforcement is out there, they're arresting people, they're writing reports, they send it over to the DA's office, a prosecutor takes a look at it and says, one, can can I meet the elements of this case? Are they there? Can I prove this case? You know, what is the appropriate outcome? And if the defendant says, I'm not guilty, let's go to trial, well, it's the prosecutor, it's the DA that that proves that case at trial in front of a jury. The Bear County District Attorney also handles civil suits, so when the city or the county is being sued or entities are being sued and different contracts among uh providers within the county, but predominantly the district attorney, as we all know it, is the chief law enforcement officer. So that's what the DA does. And the DA has more of a hand in our daily lives than just about anybody. There are good cops out there, there are bad cops out there. Same for prosecutors. Predominantly, you know, I'm I'm I'm out there supporting law enforcement, God bless you. People go running the other way, they go running into danger. But it doesn't mean there's not bad law enforcement officers out there. And it's the role of the district attorney to take a look at that case and to make sure is this person innocent, is this person guilty? Um, and to be a buffer between those bad law enforcement officers and, you know, a jail cell, pretty much. So you need somebody that has the discretion and the discernment to look at a case to say, wait a minute, something may not be right here. And you know, that's happened several times along my career, and some of the most rewarding times were dismissing cases, not getting convictions, but dismissing cases when I think people were railroaded or just treated poorly. Um so uh you've you better you better look at the person, not the party. And I think we've just gotten into this role where we're just voting party lines and look where it's gotten us.

SPEAKER_05 16:27

In your opinion, do you think that there's that there is a uh how can I put this without sounding like an idiot? Is there is there a certain point where you end up finding yourself in a position, let's say you're the DA or some other position, you know, in public service where you realize, hey, I've gotta play ball to a certain extent. Or is it possible to say, no, I'm not playing ball, and this is what I'm gonna do, and if you don't like it, you know, yeah run somebody who's gonna beat me in election. Because I feel like I feel like there's a lot of that where people don't just trust the process. It's like uh, you know, we were talking earlier about the um the lady judge who who uh recently got into some some trouble, uh and like uh I I didn't quite understand all that, but when I when I kind of heard bits and pieces and kind of read some articles, again it was kind of above my head. You know, I've heard other people talk about it a little more intellectually than what I could. And it to them it made sense the what she had done and that there wasn't nothing really out of line with it. But I'm I'm sitting there going, as a layman watching this from a distance or reading it from a distance and going, okay, well, why would you handcuff somebody and put them in a in a box just to uh uh to me it's like are are you just trying to show authority over somebody, or is that something that happens regularly? I didn't quite understand it. And then the fact that she ended up not being charged with anything was another thing that just kind of charged, they just dismissed it. They dismissed it. And uh you had a great um TikTok where you talked about this gives her the opportunity to go, hey, I was I was uh row wrote it, I didn't do anything wrong, or if had I done something wrong, they would have charged me. I think one of the uh I think you'd mentioned one of the uh charges was a felony. Yeah, you know, and I sit there and I go, okay, well, how how are you expecting the population to be held accountable for the things they do? But yet the people doing the judging are not held accountable to the same standards.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

There's a lot there, man. There's a lot there that you're talking about. And you're right. First, first and foremost, I think so much goes to ego. When you have somebody who is in a position of power and they are using that power and that ego, um, that can be a dangerous thing. For me, the role of a judge should be the most patient person in the courtroom, uh, the most knowledgeable if you can be. Certainly, there's a lot of smarter people out there than I am, but I tried to be the most knowledgeable. And if I didn't know what the answer was when I was a judge, I took a pause in the action and I tried to find it.

SPEAKER_05 19:08

There's a lot of responsibility with that judge.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

A lot of responsibility. And, you know, I never I there was not once that I ever held anybody in contempt, which is what Judge Rosie Speedland-Gonzalez said she was doing when she put this attorney in handcuffs. And does a judge have the authority to um to put somebody in handcuffs and charge them with contempt and there's a hearing process that happens later, and and maybe that can result in a jail sanction or a fine for this attorney?

SPEAKER_05 19:30

But does it let me ask you this real quick? I don't want to stop you there, but in my in my mind, I'm kind of like, okay, well, and maybe I'm wrong, but if I've got to put somebody, if I'm a judge and I'm gonna hold you in contempt and I've got to put you in handcuffs, why are you still in the courtroom?

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Yeah, I mean, she you could take the alternative and say, look, uh, we're gonna pause this hearing, you need to leave my courtroom now. We'll pick this discussion up later. That could have been something she could have easily done. Uh I will try to nutshell it, you know. Essentially, she this attorney was going in and he she was arguing for her client who was subject to having his probation revoked. Uh the state is has to prove the new allegations, whether that's he picked up a new crime or he stopped reporting or he tested positive for drugs. And when you're the defense attorney, the way that you make the state prove it is if they they read the allegation and your client is to say not true. And then the state can put on witnesses and they can prove it just like they would in a jury trial. The burden is a little lower. So that's kind of what was going on. Her client was um having trouble understanding the process. They had talked about it off the record. Hey, listen, you're gonna plead not true to these allegations, and we're gonna make the state prove it. And so Judge Rosie Speedlight Gonzalez asked, Hey, is is this allegation true or not true? And he said, It's true. And he was confused, and the attorney said, Oh, hang on a second, Judge. And she wanted to talk to her client, said, No, remember, you were gonna say not true, and that's the process, and that's how you handle it.

SPEAKER_05 20:50

And that's okay, right? I mean, that that's that is that's normal.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

It happens all the time. It's a confusing process for defendants, no matter their intellect, and it happens all the time. And an attorney is allowed to say, Hey, no, wait, we talked about this, remember? That one's not true. And and they're like, Oh, yes, I I got confused because it's nervous. They're nervous being in front of a judge. And so she's like, No, I already heard that, and you know, stop coaching your client, stop coaching your well, that's what a defense is. I was gonna say, isn't that the purpose of the attorney's? Exactly right. And look, I read the transcript, granted, it there was no audio attached to it, so I couldn't tell if this attorney was yelling or not yelling, but I highly doubt that she was. And so she said, No, I've already got it, we're gonna be moving on, and and she just didn't like the attitude and thought that, you know, the argument that this defense attorney was making for her client was inappropriate and uh told her to stop and stop, and so just said, put her in the box. And then she went on to say, Hey, listen, you know, you're gonna go back to jail unless you want a different attorney right now, and we can get you a different attorney to handle this matter. And the the defense attorney from the box was saying, Hey, stop talking to my client, and I think you need to recuse yourself and let another judge take over from here. At which point, Judge Rosie went on to say, Listen, I'm tired of you and you've been pulling stuff like this. And you know, for the last five years, and you're never gonna work in this courtroom again. And so um that attorney later went on and filed charges, and those charges were brought before the DA, Joe Gonzalez, and he recused himself, and it went to uh Brian Cromies, who's the DA of Webb County, I believe, and he took that to a grand jury, and the grand jury indicted uh Rosie Speedling Gonzalez for official oppression, which is a class A misdemeanor. Well, and uh indicted her also as well for unlawful restraint, which is a second-degree felony. She had those uh those allegations were brought before the Judicial Conduct Commission. There were three additional complaints alleging that she had uh also committed acts that would uh would amount to official oppression should they be proven true when she sent an email to current staffers saying, hey, listen, you're to have no contact with these previous staff members. And it wasn't limited into as to you can't discuss privileged information. It was you can have no contact with these prior staff members, which is essentially saying you you can't go to dinner, you can't be friends with them anymore, or you were subject to losing your job. So, in my professional opinion, if proven to be true, those would also equate to official oppression, which is a class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in the county jail. So she had all those allegations pending before the Judicial Conduct Commission. She was suspended when she became indicted, wasn't allowed to be back on the bench again. And um ultimately the decision came down just over two weeks ago where she had an agreement with the Judicial Conduct Commission in exchange for them dismissing all of the allegations and not pursuing them any further. She agreed to give up her bench and to well, she'd already lost the election, quite frankly, so she only had a few months left on the bench, but to no longer run for judge, to not act as a judge in any capacity, and not even to perform marriages. And the prosecutor separately didn't have to.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

Did she still run as an attorney?

SPEAKER_02 24:00

She's still an attorney. She still has her bar card. Should she have been found guilty of a second-degree felony that could also be considered a crime of moral turpitude, and she would have lost her bar card, her ability to practice law. So essentially, she was told you can't run for judge again, which in my opinion she had already lost by 65% in a primary. Um, I don't think she would ever be elected judge again. She she got worldwide news, quite frankly, over this event. And um, so what did she really give up? I'm not sure what she really gave up. And um that to me was disheartening. I thought that the prosecutor could have moved forward. And that you know, the the attorney said, Look, I guess that's good enough for me. I'm okay. If you just want to dismiss these charges, I guess I'm okay with that. But there were three other complainants that that could be pursued. And, you know, I think the I think the citizens had a right to see that outcome.

SPEAKER_05 24:47

Yeah, I believe so too.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Um and well, if it was guilty or not guilty, well, now she gets to say, Well, listen, I was I was not guilty of any of this. Um so I I've had a history with her. When I was a young prosecutor, she approached me in the hallway and kind of put her finger in my chest and said, You need to dismiss this case. And it was a case where this uh young girl was assaulted by her neighbor across the street, another young girl. And uh I said, no, this is a this is a good case, and there's nothing wrong with this case. And she was very aggressive the very first time I met her. Went to trial. I won my case, she lost it. I think it was her first trial, she lost. And, you know, just from since then on, she her and I just didn't have the best relationship, to be honest with you, but we were professional with one another. And then, you know, I was a judge for eight years. In 2018, I lost the bench and went back to the DA's office, was a prosecutor for another four years, trying the murders, capital murders, and then I did defense work for the last four years. I had a trial. Well, it was actually my first trial as a defense attorney, and it was in her court. And um, one of the rulings, I made an objection and she literally said, overruled, and in front of the jury said, I'm the judge now, which just goes to the heart of who she kind of was, right? Like ego, yeah, ego, ego. So um I think Which is probably the last thing you want in a judge. I that's the last thing that you want. You know, it's just so I think I am vocal, and I'm so vocal in regards to her and a couple other judges along the way, but I also support others because I did that job for eight years, and you know, 50, 60 judges in Bear County within the first year, I was ranked in the top ten among several categories. You know, shows up on time, knows the law, works hard, temperament. And so I was really kind of proud of that. So I think I can speak from experience when I see something that is just out of bounds. And so that's that's why I got on TikTok, to be honest with you. You know, I only had that thing on my phone to keep track of my older kids. I never thought I was ever gonna use it. And I posted some rant that I did and had about 40,000 views, and I thought, wow, this is this is amazing.

SPEAKER_05 26:48

Uh, well, I think a lot of it is is people are they can they uh they can connect with that, right? Because they hear those things and the you're talking about a lot of things that we see and feel, and and when we watch the news and we see things happen or we see stuff like this happen, and it's like, okay, had that been anybody else, had that been me, yeah, I'd be in trouble, you know?

SPEAKER_02 27:10

That's where most of the comments were. Had that been me, do you think I I I equated it to this. If I was a dog catcher and I was beating the dogs within my control, and then I was indicted for that offense, and then later said, Hey, you promise to never be a dog catcher again and not put on your dog catcher uniform and we'll dismiss these charges, is that truly justice?

SPEAKER_05 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

So many people said that I wouldn't get that result.

SPEAKER_05 27:35

Sure. You know, one thing that I think is is uh a little bit frustrating is I get that attorneys and judges are human beings. I get that. Uh but it's kind of like uh it's kind of like a cop too, right? It's like you're a human being, people make mistakes, people have bad days, people have good days. But it's kind of one of those things where those are the types of jobs that you know what when you go into them, you go into them knowing that you've got a certain responsibility, right? And you gotta leave your bad day out of the courtroom. You know, I I don't know how many how many uh uh cases they have on their docket per day, but you've got to treat each one of I would want you to treat each one of those individually like a whole new restart, right? If if I'm the last one of the day and you've had four or five shitty ones, I don't want you to come in with that attitude to mind. You've got to you've if you're gonna take that job on, you've gotta understand that you've got to learn how to handle that better. You know, you've got to look at each, again, look at each one of those cases for what they are individually. And not go, I've seen this a hundred times and you you're lying, you're, you know, you're not, you know, I'm the judge now attitude. Like that doesn't cut it, you know. And the handcuffing thing, which is I don't want to be hung up on that, but how often does that happen? Like, like in my mind, in my mind, if I'm a judge and I've got to handcuff you, I'm gonna have the bailiff take you out of the courtroom, right? If if I'm holding you in contempt and we're gonna press charges through contempt, you know, well, there's a booking process to that, isn't there? Yeah, and it's like why are you still in the in the courtroom?

SPEAKER_02 29:14

I think she followed uh the procedures. I I never held anybody contempt. I thought about it a couple of times, but I never used that power. I thought there were all alternative means to quell the situation, to get control back over the court, which, you know, a judge has that authority to do that, and there are proper times to do that. But I did know that if I was gonna do it, you know, there's a there is a step to it, and you gotta look like, okay, what am I supposed to do next? And I should do this next. Um, and she just kind of blew through all of those those things. And look, she she would, I'm quite certain she would have taken it to trial, and I don't know if she'd have been found guilty or not guilty. I do know she was indicted by a grand jury for for that. Um I do know that she agreed to give up her robe and not run for office ever again facing those allegations. So what does that tell you? Um, but again, I there was no ultimate finding that agreement with the Judicial Conduct Commission wasn't a finding of guilt. They didn't, if they had their opinion as to whether or not she committed those allegations, they're not telling us that either. Um but it's rare. It is rare for that to happen.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

One thing that is a little confusing to me, and maybe it's supposed to be confusing, is uh they probably should and and this isn't this is a knucklehead talking to an attorney and a judge, a previous judge.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

I'm knucklehead too many, many times.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

But I sit there and go, okay, if I was a judge, this is all speculation because I'm not, I would say we've gotta we've gotta pick this up later on. Because by telling you to shut up and putting your handcuffs, putting you in the box, this guy no longer has an attorney.

unknown 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:53

Right? This guy has no longer has somebody representing him. And I keep telling if I'm telling his attorney to shut up and quit talking or quit judging him, I've taken it upon myself to not he no longer has has somebody representing him.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Well, you know, she still represented him, but the judge at the time was saying, Do you want somebody else? You're gonna go back into custody and spend some more time in jail while this while we handle this, unless you want me to give you a different a different attorney right now. You know, so she's like, hey, stop talking to my client, Judge. And so, yeah, it's uh it's a it's and there's people that come on both sides, and she has her supporters, her diehard supporters. You know, I I will tell you if you practice in her court, give me your opinion after that, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

So well, you you know, I think people people stay loyal to a fault to certain groups or parties, or you know, uh whether it's Republican or Democrat or or you know, co-workers. There's a certain point where it's like, okay, we're we're friends and we're close and we work together for the past 20 years, but what you're doing is is maybe illegal, you know. And that's where I that's the type of person that I want in that room going, uh maybe they don't have the authority to stop it, but again, it comes back to the individual who's being tried. You know, those people need to have professional people around them, whether it's the judge and the attorneys. It's like if there's some sort of the mental health issues involved, we talked about earlier too. But it's like I want the best person in the courtroom, and I don't want you bringing your attitude in here.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

And you know, for the justice system to work, you really everybody needs to be doing their job. They need to be professional. The judge, the defense attorney, the prosecutor, the probation department, mental health providers, you know, they all need to be working together. So when one puts themselves above the others, it it gets in the way. When ego starts coming in, it it makes it more difficult to get justice.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Does the county or or is there any sort of I know that the uh attorney side there is kind of a an overseeing group of people that kind of say, hey, you know, this guy's kind of out of line or state bar. State bar kind of thing. Is there is something similar? Is the state bar in charge of judges as well?

SPEAKER_02 33:06

State bar uh is in charge of uh you have to be a lawyer first to be a judge, but yes, they're the state judicial conduct commission is who oversees the judges. So and they they have judicial canons, and those canons are holding them to a higher standard. You can't even engage in conduct that has the appearance of impropriety. I mean, it's there's some very high standards that they need to hold themselves to. And it wasn't her first run-in with the Judicial Conduct Commission. You know, she she had her gay pride flag in the courtroom, which I I don't care what your sexual persuasion is, that is between you and I that doesn't matter to me. But having that flag in a courtroom tends to show bias. Sure. Um, certainly when you're presiding over family violence cases, and then predominantly those defendants are are male defendants. Um, you know, she she made other comments along the way that that that just tended to show bias in my in my opinion. Ultimately, she uh was told to remove that flag. She did. I think she won her appeal. She carried a gun into the airport on one occasion. She had a gun at the Tobin Center, um, just paid a civil fine.

SPEAKER_05 34:12

Well, I'm I'm a little less uh uh picky on the gun thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

I'm I'm with you, but carry the airport that makes me a little nervous if it's in your carry-on bag, you know.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

I say carry is ever everywhere that you can. Yeah. Okay. If you can't maybe you shouldn't go there because I'm I'm all for that.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

So there is an overriding uh board, and that's who that's who keeps it check on judges.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

Well, I mean, even and not to be fickle, but you know, even the you know, the the gay flag in the in the courtroom. Yeah, you know, this is this we talked about this earlier, and maybe I'm just uh being a little baby about things, but I get irritated because I'm like, these are our spaces, right? These are the people if of Bear County. This is their courtroom. I get that you're the judge and this is your courtroom, but this belongs to the people of Bear County. Absolutely. And it needs to be neutral for everybody in Bear County.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

I mean, I wanted to put a Kansas City Chiefs in my courtroom. Sorry, Texas, but I was, you know, my older brother got the Dallas Cowboys jacket for Christmas. My middle brother got the Raiders, and I got the Chiefs jacket. I mean, I had to wait 50 years to before we started rolling and winning Super Bowls. But, you know, I mean, I wasn't flying a Chiefs jacket and got a Chiefs flag in my courtroom. And I mean, that's kind of a trivial example, but I it's true. It should be a neutral space.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

Yeah. No, I I totally agree. You know, um, I feel like San Antonio is a reasonably safe city. Uh from your perspective, how how is the crime rate in San Antonio now than what it was maybe 10 or 15, 20 years ago?

SPEAKER_02 35:45

I think recently the the major crime statistics have decreased. Oh, good you know, I think the murder murder, aggravated robberies, those types of things have decreased. I think COVID did a number, you know. They they they rose during the COVID years to to rates that uh I think that we hadn't seen in a while. Really? I think so. But everybody was supposed to stay home. Yeah, well, gosh, I mean I think it just drove.

SPEAKER_05 36:08

Maybe that's why aggravated assault window, because they were all home together.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

You asked me, COVID came out of a lab and it did some crazy things to everybody's minds. Absolutely. For sure.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

Um they got a new one queuing up right now, by the way. I saw that earlier, but anyway. No, I hope not.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

But uh they they have decreased. Um and of course, there's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics. So you go ask yourself. But I I think it has gotten a little better. But you know, I I think we can do much better than we are. I think we need to do a good job on if you've got a hammer over somebody and you find them to be repeat offenders and habitual offenders, and and it's not something like, you know, they've got a drug problem if they're just possessing it, they're not dealing it. There's there's time for compassion, but there's also time to say, look, enough is enough. I'm gonna give you a sentence that that you deserve to get off these streets for a while. I think we need to clean up our streets. There are some areas of San Antonio that are just they're they're like war zones. You you go you go by the jail. When's the last time you've been by the jail in Bear County? Under that bridge, it is frightening. And there are homeless people along there, and there's drug use all along there, just steps away from Salazar's uh main hangout. So we need to do better at protecting these people, letting kids being able to walk to school again in some of our neighborhoods. Um and I think by putting the hammer down when you have the hammer in your hand is one way of doing that. I think we've just gotten too lenient. We're trying to give services to people that don't really want them, you know, that are just playing the system. You know, Haven for Hope came in and it's just a beacon for people to come and, you know, they don't really use those services, but they can get the free meals, and you know, then they're breaking into homes in and around that facility because they want to stay in close proximity to the free handouts, and they're not doing anything really significantly to change their life. And so that that area and around there is just the the neighborhood. I went to a homeowners association meeting out there, and it's I just it's a war zone that they're living in. So we've got to work with law enforcement. That law enforcement relationship between the DA and and and it just went south and they weren't communicating with each other anymore. Um, there's a real disconnect there. These these what caused that? You know, uh between SAPD and Joe Gonzalez, I think they were both pointing fingers at each other, and I think Joe started pointing the finger first as to, you know, why crime was the way that it was. Um, I think maybe law enforcement got tired of cases, certain cases being dismissed as well. But they really just kind of stopped communicating with one another. You have Sheriff Salazar who is wearing his uniform out there stumping for Kamala Harris at the Democratic National Convention, and that that's fine. If you're a if you're a Democrat and you want to vote Democrat, God bless you. You live in the United States of America. If you are the sheriff of a county that has Republicans and Democrats and liberals and everything in between, why are you only advocating for one party affiliation while also saying that Republicans are corrupt and thieves and you know, and I I don't believe the majority of Americans think that just because you have a particular political persuasion that you are this or you are that as a whole. Um so it's disheartening to see that. I think that's divided the community. Um I think that the discretion that we've taken from our law enforcement officers, they are afraid to get out there and do something sometimes when they could because you know, look, they're gonna pick up charges, they're gonna get charged with something. Um so I I think we need to give them the freedom to to good acting officers, good intention officers, give them the discretion that they need and then back them up with prosecutors who know the law, who are willing to say, you know, I think this requires a lesser charge, or I think this could be dismissed if that's what they think justice calls for, um, be creative. But when the hammer needs to come down, they can do that as well. I think that's been taken away from our prosecutors a lot because they're afraid of what the, you know, Joe's afraid of what the media is going to say. Um so there's some simple fixes. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 40:15

Is that is it that is it that simple that the uh the DA it dictates how all this process happens? Sure. And a lot of it's just, you know, one in the same face, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Absolutely. I'll give you an example. When I was still working with Joe, he came and asked me, you know, hey Jason, what do you think about this obstruction of a highway? So there's DWIs, right? DWI driving while intoxicated. Uh a couple of you know, Judge Reed or D.A. Reed and then even Nico Lahood both embraced obstruction of a highway. Obstruction of a highway was really meant for the farmer that parks his tractor on the roadway and says, Nobody's getting past me, right? I'm obstructing the highway. Uh Susan Reed said, well, what if by way of their intoxication they're obstructing the highway and that kind of meets the elements? Let's give them something that they can plead to early on. We can put them under supervision, we can put an alcohol monitoring device in their vehicle so they can't start it. And most people are self-correcting, you know. We've all, but for the grace of God, there go many of us. Most of these people are self-correcting, and you're not going to see them in the justice system again.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

That way, that's interesting. You you talk you talk way faster than I think. But so I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, okay, so they've implemented an additional charge that will allow you to plead something lower so you can kind of get your shit together, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yeah, and and that's interesting. DWIs can be, they will follow you around forever, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't. You know, your first one is a class B. If you have above a 0.15 alcohol content, that can be a class A. But that second one is a is a class A. That third one is felony now. So, you know, the obstruction of a highway allowed people to be monitored, to make sure that they weren't a danger to the community. They paid their fines and fees and community service hours just like they would at DWI. Um, but then they could put that behind them and there wasn't these onerous license suspensions or super fine charges that were put on them. And, you know, it was a case-by-case, fact by track scenario.

SPEAKER_05 42:07

All right, we're good. Oh Jason, that was interesting. Yeah. Speaking of law enforcement. Speaking of law enforcement, where were we?

SPEAKER_02 42:18

We were, can you plead to something other than a DWI? Yeah, I'll try to keep it simpler, but obstruction of a highway. And so quite frankly, you asked, you know, is there getting in the way of that? And Joe had said, yeah, listen, do you think we should still allow people to do that, or should we set this blanket policy that if you have been in an accident or if you're over a 0.15, you know, should I still keep that open to certain individuals? And I said, Well, yeah, I think you should. I'm I'm leery of any blanket bright line policy when it comes to that. But he essentially said, nope, if you've been in an accident, which could be your tire hits the curb, right? Or if you have over a 0.15, he's not gonna offer that to anybody anymore. It's his decision.

SPEAKER_05 42:58

He's the DA, but how many drinks is 0.15?

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah, well, listen, every generally every beer or shot or glass of wine that you have, 0.02. So as you start consuming them, uh you start absorbing it, right? Okay. You've got to let it eliminate before you add on to that. So, you know.

SPEAKER_05 43:16

So we're looking at five or six.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

It's it's it's not it's a high look, a 0.15 is is a high number. It's almost twice the legal limit. But you know, you it's not about letting people off. This is certainly not letting them off. It is a probation is probation and it's not fun. Uh, but it's just the the point of k taking the discretion away from from prosecutors, you know. Somebody who's a 0.16, well, they that's off the table. We won't even consider that. Sorry, prior military, or sorry you've done this and never been in trouble in your life. Okay. And that's his job. He can do that if he wants, but I think it really took a lot of discretion away from the prosecutors. And and and and for for what? Really? For what? If you don't think this individual is going to be out there picking up DWIs again, you're still monitoring them, you're still putting an initial lock in their car so they can't start it. Um it it gets retribution, but it doesn't forestall somebody's future. You could have, you know, you're lose your nursing license, uh, but there's an alternative way to till get them for the conduct that they engaged in.

SPEAKER_05 44:21

And that makes sense. You you know, it it's funny because like uh DWIs are one of those things where it's like uh it can be very, very serious.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Oh absolutely. As a judge, those were frightening as a misdemeanor court judge. You know, I laid awake wondering, hoping, you know, please, I don't want anybody to kill anybody. Um we gotta make sure that they're monitored appropriately. And Barrett County has a lot of people that like to party, man. Sure. You know, and uh now they just need to do it responsibly. But um it is it can be uh a scary, scary thing.

SPEAKER_05 44:53

Well, I guess even even making that that uh judgment call on how to handle those cases, because like you want to make sure you're not destroying somebody's potential to earn for their family, uh, but at the same time, it's like am I am I I mean, with all the information you have, there's no priors to it, you know, maybe they have a clean record, uh, you know, you you get some information on their background, but that's kind of one of those things years and years and years ago back home, there was a there was an incident where a police officer let somebody who had been drinking go.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:35

They drove about 10 miles down the road and killed somebody.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:38

And it's kind of one of those things where it's like, man, I don't I don't want to destroy your life.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

But hey, look, you know, that's a that's a tough call for a law enforcement officers who have to make that decision on the spot. Once they've made that decision and arrested somebody, and if you can prove that case, then it's about how do we keep the community still safe, how do we change this behavior, and what what can be appropriate? It's not dismissing the case, it's not getting rid of the case. Right. So it it just comes down to you know, were there instances in the past where you can make this decision and and it and it can really change outcomes when when there could be an alternative that might be a better alternative. Yeah. So and I and I think he was afraid of what the media was saying, you know, like, oh man, I I made this decision.

SPEAKER_05 46:23

Well, I mean, that's that's another thing that irritates me, right? Is like I don't I don't want you to make decisions based on what the media might say about you. I want you to make make decisions on what's best for the population, you know, in the county that you're serving.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 46:36

And it's like until you start, until you can say, hey, this is how I'm gonna handle these things, yeah. My concern is the people. I don't care what what comes down, what goes on TikTok, what people say, because you you can't let that you can't let that affect your judgment.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

That's that's why I'm running the way that I am. If people pay any attention to my videos, Call the Wolf is where you can check me out. You're gonna see that I am 100% telling you how I believe it is, and I don't care. As long as I feel like I'm coming from the right place and this is the right thing to do. And look, justice is an ethereal term, okay? It really is. You can't just see this is the definition of what justice is. It's based on facts, it's based on prior criminal history, it's based on can I prove the case, right? And that's another thing. Right now, that DA's office is so backlogged. One, it's understaffed. They've lost a lot of prosecutors who have left over 140 prosecutors left over the last few years. Wow. They are practicing in Comal County, surrounding counties. I see people that I used to work with. What's the purpose of that? Is it more money or is it just it's it's a few things. Yeah. Comal, these smaller counties, they've gotten some increases from the legislature. They can sometimes tend to pay more, but it to me it's not about that. A lot of these prosecutors that are here in these surrounding counties still live in Bear County, have families in Bear County. Uh, the drive is longer for them, the commute's longer. Prosecutors want justice. Uh, I see a lot of people throwing the word corruption around. It's very rare have I ever seen corruption, both through law enforcement or through judges or through prosecutors. Most of these prosecutors are trying to do the best job that they can, and they're they it it is a scarring job. There are images and videos in my mind that I will never get out of my mind and that are difficult when I think about them. So it is a hard job, it is a stressful job. You've got families depending on you to prove murder cases, capital murder cases, some really difficult things. And look, it it's one day after the next, and it's one docket, and here's the next docket. So you need smart people, you need people that can handle the job, but it is a taxing job. So they left, in my opinion. I know why I left. I I lost faith in the DA. That's why I left. I I thought I was gonna be a lifelong prosecutor. Um, I'm glad I'm doing defense work. It's brought me a unique perspective, a well-rounded perspective now. Um, but they left because they weren't being backed up. Money does have something to do with it, but they were overworked and understaffed. And so, one, we need to bring prosecutors back to Bear County. We need to make sure that the county commissioners are paying them uh the appropriate w wage for the work that they do. And we need to make it fun again. I I I had fun as a young prosecutor, man. It was like going to college, and you know, after we went to classes during the morning, we all kind of went to lunch together and we kind of told stories about judges, and you know, we had a good time, and now they're all kind of compartmentalized and they're putting their little pods, and I don't think they really get to associate with one another as much as they used to, but they they they need that camaraderie, that that teamwork needs to be put back together, and there's gotta be a way to do that.

SPEAKER_05 49:34

And well, the backlog's gonna kill you too, right? It's it's like every job. You you can't you know, I I tell my bosses we've got deadlines all the time, and I always tell them I'm never gonna tell you no, but I can't keep this pace up forever. Yeah, you know, uh yeah, if we've got to work every day or we've got to work late every day or you know for the next two months, yeah, okay, fine. But I'm but I'm also 49. I'm not trying to do that for the next five years.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Yeah, and you've got to have some peace at what you do. You still love it, right? But at some point you just say this is too much. This is a very good thing.

SPEAKER_05 50:07

Let me let me tell you this real quick before you go there. Uh the backlog. I knew somebody that had gotten DWI. Because of the backlog, it took them three years to go to court. And it was interesting because I told them, I said, you know what? I said, You you've been on probation for three years.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

You know, because of the backlog, it's like you couldn't go do th certain things, you had to do, you had to behave, basically. And it's like because of just the back, there was still probation after that.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 50:33

But it was like, okay, well, you've already done kind of you've kind of done three years of probation because of the backlog. So that's another thing is you're putting people who are trying to go to trial and maybe maybe clear their name or maybe get on with the rest of their life, and it's on pause for because of the backlogs.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Well, look, it makes my job easier as a defense attorney because there's such a thing as a speedy trial motion, you know. Look, if if the DA drops drags their feet for a minimum of eight months, then you can start doing an analysis and you can say, look, it's taken so long that even if you were to give me my trial, it wouldn't be fair. It's presumptively prejudicial, and so this case should be dismissed. And that can happen when you have a backlog that you can't overcome. And speaking to the backlog, for instance, I went into the family violence court, misdemeanor court. When I was a judge, I used to call the docket, and occasionally there was a one red file, meaning it hadn't been filed yet. Somebody was arrested. They were sitting there in court, but the DA hadn't formally filed the information in the complaint. So, really, as a judge, I didn't have any authority to do anything. Went into a few months back, I went into one of the misdemeanor family violence courts and was talking to the judge, and she said only, gosh, like I think 16% of the cases had been filed.

SPEAKER_05 51:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

And the rest were still awaiting filing. I've had clients who have gone back to court three or four or five times over a year, waiting for the DA to file a case, which by the way, many of these family violence cases, it's an assault. Okay, so assault requires pain. Punching you in the nose, making you bleed, that's an assault if it's not permanent disfigurement. But scratching you can be considered an assault. Things happen, couples argue, right? And many times law enforcement shows up and they're like, hey, what are you doing here? Yes, we were loud, sorry, everything's good. Oh, well, yeah, I do have a scratch, boom, cuffs go on. And they say, look, I don't I don't want to pursue this. I have clients that are presently dealing with this. They tell the officers, I don't want to press charges. This is, I'm not a beater, he's not a beater, she's not a beater, we just had a bad night, we want to move on with our lives. We don't want this hanging over our heads. And they are forced to come back to court time and time again. I'll give affidavits to the DAs and I'll say, look, this is they're saying that this is, they don't want to pursue these, it wasn't exactly how it went down, or if it's how it went down, it's it's nothing. It's it's and that's they will still sit there and the DA will offer you, oh, do you do you want deferred adjudication? And then it comes to trial and they're like, oh, do you want pretrial diversion? And you said, No, I I don't want this. I want the trial. And then they dismiss it because they know they're never going to be able to prove that case because they have an unwilling, uncooperative complainant, yet those cases sit there for over a year. You have to have a DA that's willing to say, okay, look, you two had this little thing together, you come on in complainant, you sign right here, you say, Listen, if I if I end up getting the shit beat out of me later on again, that is not on the DA, that is on me, okay? I'm not gonna, of course, I'm gonna pursue cases where it is a wife beater or somebody that is assaultive or coercing their victim. Yeah, you know, that kind of stuff. But when you have somebody saying, we want to get on with our lives, I'm fine, I'm safe. This was a minor event in our relationship. I am not under any fear of future violence headed my way. As a district attorney, you need to say, okay, I believe you. Certainly the district attorney represents the citizens of Bear County, but when you have a complainant who is saying, I'm fine, I want this to go away, yet you can't.

SPEAKER_05 53:57

Well, you also have access to the police report that shows, hey, there was minimal damage here. You know, like you said, it could have been a scratch on the hand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Uh but Does that technically meet the element if it caused pain? Ow, that hurt, does that meet the elements? Yes. Is that something that the DA's office should pursue to the point where we have a backlog where the real victims are waiting for their day in court or the real innocent defendants are waiting for their day in court, and it's wasting taxpayer dollars. So you need to be serious about getting rid of the shit and pursuing the actual cases that matter.

SPEAKER_05 54:32

One thing I want to ask you, and uh this will kind of tie in, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about the uh being accountable as as an attorney, being accountable as a judge. You know, we talked about the Ukrainian lady that got stabbed from the guy that got out of jail 14 times. But one thing that drives me batshit crazy is when people abuse and sexually abuse children.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:56

You know, I I had uh I had a friend of mine on a while back. She was working at a facility here in San Antonio where they basically, and I don't know if it's still open or not, I know she doesn't work there anymore, but they basically take in uh 18-year-olds who were sexually trafficked. Uh apparently there's services and things for children or minors, but when they hit 18, they basically got the boot out of the program. So this program was to kind of help them get on their feet, get work, a little more education, some therapy, stuff like that. And it was interesting because talking to her, she said, you know, a lot of the a lot of the trafficking happens from the family, you know. And she told me, you know, on our podcast, we're talking about it, and she said, you know, a lot of these girls come to me and they go through our therapy program, and a lot of these girls are no, no, no, it's okay. It's okay that it happened. I was helping the family. You know, my mom told me we're I was helping the family, so it's okay. My uncle said I was helping the family. So it's like I know that happens everywhere. I know it's out of control. But to me, it's like I don't know that our punishment for people who abuse children, whether it's physically or sexually, I don't I don't feel like you can throw the book at them hard enough.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

Yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 56:16

You know, and and it what process has to happen to change those punishments? Because I I feel like I feel like we got into this weird place, and I'm not gonna say the last couple of administrations, but I'll say even before that. There was this weird time that I was barely paying attention. And I feel like the thought process was like, hey, you know, uh person A sexually abused this child. But why did person A do that? You know, yeah, he's 48, uh, but he had an abusive childhood too. And all of a sudden we started getting really lenient on the people who committed the crime. And all of a sudden, the the people who were uh abused or had this crime committed on them, they almost got pushed to the wayside. And I feel like that just gradually there was, I th I think it was late 90s, early 2000s, there was some guy in Florida who had uh sexually abused a little girl, killed her, and put her under the porch. And it came out that he had been arrested 24 times for abusing children. And it's it's a slap to the face to to the population where it's like, what are we doing? You know, when you can't take care of the most innocent, most vulnerable people in our population, what are we doing? You know, and I feel like we don't come down hard enough on people, like the guy that stabbed the girl. He'd been arrested 14 times. Why? Why do you get so many chances as a criminal in this country now?

SPEAKER_02 57:43

You know, a couple things there, speaking to the guy that stabbed that that poor woman. Um we all have to work together in this justice system. Uh bonds are set, bonds are set by the magistrate, by the judges. Those bonds need to be really high when you're looking at somebody who is a repeat offender who you know is just gonna be right back out there doing the same kind of stuff again. This uh no cash bail stuff, I think, has gotten out of control. Um certainly, you know, we we want to try to find a way to get people out who are nonviolent crimes who aren't gonna be repeat offenders. We don't want them sitting in our jail cells taking up space. Taking up space, yeah. When we know that they're gonna report, they're gonna show up to court, they're not going to uh repeat again. But you know, that's a that's a judgment call and that's not always easy to figure out. But however, when you know you've got somebody who is in and out of the jail cells and you are giving them personal recognizance bonds, are you not setting that bond high enough to keep them in there to keep the community safe? That's what happened with that case, and that's disgusting. And we need our judges to So he was getting out on PR bonds? I don't know if he got out on he might have. I I don't know specifically, but I'll put it this way 14 times. It was either a PR bond or it was a very low bond, right? And those law enforcement and it goes to our law enforcement officers, they're tired of arresting the same people over and over again and uh you know feeling like what are they what am I doing here? I'm just spinning my wheel. So that that is important. We have to have judges that are willing to, you know, set high bonds, to be willing to keep somebody in custody until the DA can prove that case. And that goes to the next point. Knowing what happened and proving what happened are two different things. The ability to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt, doubt is the standard, prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And it's frustrating from a prosecutor's perspective when you may have somebody who you know is guilty, but you need the cooperation of witnesses, you need the cooperation of the complainant. I don't think there's anybody in that courthouse that feels sorry for sexual predators. It's a difficult job to be the prosecutor who is prosecuting those cases when you have these victims who are vulnerable, vulnerable victims. You know, it it makes me want to cry when I think about some of the cases that I've looked at, quite honestly. I've been sitting in the district attorney's office bawling my eyes out, listening to the evidence before. So I don't think there's anybody that doesn't want to bring the hammer down on these people. And yeah, are there times where I think we could be getting uh longer sentences? Yes. The plea bargain process is maybe misunderstood by people. When you have thousands and thousands of criminals that are coming through your justice system, you cannot try every case. You just cannot do it. You don't have the capacity or the ability to do that. You have to try to find something that is appropriate, something that, you know, closely resembles what you believe you would get at trial should somebody be found guilty. Many times you have to take into recognition that the victims are not cooperative, or maybe they are co they're somewhat cooperative, but they don't really want to be there and they don't want to relive that trauma of going through a trial again. And that can be very devastating for many victims. There's so many things that come into play. Um so I think it's it's it's hard. Sometimes it can be very difficult to prove what happened to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. And a plea bargain can be just that. If I feel like as a prosecutor, I could get 20 years on a case, but somebody was willing to plead to maybe 16, 17, then I would say, okay, I think I think that is appropriate. Um that's what it should be. It's yes, they should get something maybe that incentivizes them. Otherwise, you know, look, if you if you give them an offer that they think that they could get less from a jury, well then you're just setting yourself up for a trial and you're not being realistic as a prosecutor about what you think your case is worth. And I've said it before, it's it sounds callous and it sounds cold to say to put a number on somebody's loss of life. And and it is, and there really is no number that is ever appropriate for the loss of somebody's life. But prosecutors have to do their jobs, they have to say, okay, this is what I think I could get from a jury. This is the difficulties with my case. Do I still have my witnesses? What is my proof? What ri what am I risking? I'm risking this person walking out on the streets again rather than getting a sure plea bargain where I know they're gonna be in prison for this amount of time. But but having said that, there are times where you're just like, okay, you know what? I am going to try this case. I'm gonna take those risks because I think you need to go to prison for a very long time. Um so there's so much there. I have faith in our prosecutors.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:29

Yeah, you know, even even with a jury, you know, I I think the I think people need to change their mentality towards that kind of thing because when you when you assault a child Oh, it's terrible. Well, you in my opinion, you've killed that person because it's forever. Yeah. You know, they'll live with that for the rest of their life, it'll affect their marriage, their children. Absolutely, it affects them forever.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

Absolutely, it does.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:55

You know, I I did a podcast with a friend of mine, and she talked about uh being abused when she was younger. And uh the guy which was uh I think boyfriend of the mom, he ended up going to prison for several years. Uh he's supposed to get out in I think maybe two or three more, so she's kind of uh worried about it. But one thing that she found frustrating, and if she remembers correctly, which I I have no reason to believe that she doesn't remember correctly, because she was younger. Uh it started when she was like four, I think. But when he would get arrested, her and her mom would leave or go stay with somebody or move somewhere else. And uh it was her understanding that he kept finding them because they wouldn't tell him where they lived, but they would tell him what area he couldn't go to in the county.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:45

And so he would drive her around till he found her car, till he saw her getting off the bus. And uh, she was a neighbor of mine at one point, and I remember one day uh she was ran home frantic because he found her. And she got off the bus, she ran to the house, uh, the mom was scared, uh, you know, they ended up calling us, and at the time it, you know, it was one of those things where we had no clue this was happening to them. You know, we had no clue that this was their experience and it was continuing to happen until that day, and it was kind of like, okay, what's going on? And then all of a sudden you have the backstory of what was happening. She was already 14, 15, 16 at the time. Yeah. You know, and it was like something that reoccurred. And one thing that in that conversation with her, there was a time where he tried to break into the house, and the mom pointed a shotgun at him, didn't shoot him, the cops arrested him.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Should have shot him.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

That's what I said. I said, it would have been more trauma to you, but that night shooting your mom shooting him wouldn't have been the worst thing that happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:45

You know, and and I hate to say that to somebody to put them in that position to have to take somebody else's life. Yeah. But it's it's so frustrating because well, you think about all these kids that even they came across the border and went missing. It's like it's an industry. Let's be real. It's gotta be stopped.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

You asked earlier, what do you think about the capital death penalty? Okay. I've been in this this long enough, this system long enough to know there is some evil in this world. There is some evil in this world. And you know, Susan Reed was the DA when she hired me, and she had that was a question, you know, do you support the death penalty or not? Um, was a new father, a couple of kids, and and I thought to myself, you know, there are some scenarios that I can consider where I would do it myself if given the opportunity, if you if you touch my kids or you affect my family. Um, so I support the death penalty. Um and and and look, let's be okay, what does it take to get the death penalty, right? You have to kill a small child, you have to kill multiple people, or you kill or you murder somebody in the course of committing a robbery or aggravated robbery, or law enforcement officer. If you're found guilty of that, then you have to prove some additional stuff to the jury. And I didn't quite understand this as a young prosecutor. You have to prove that they are a contend. Danger. And I thought, well, if they're in prison for the rest of their life, how are they continuing danger? Well, they can be a continuing danger to the other inmates, to the to the guards that are there, right? And there's no other mitigating evidence that's that explains or mitigates, that is, minimizes or kind of makes you understand why they behave the way that they did. Were they schizophrenic or were they, you know, not quite crazy enough for Texas to be not guilty by reason of insanity, but where there's some other things there. Um, so it's rare that you get the death penalty, but there are times when it is appropriate.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:42

One thing that's frustrating with that is the appeal.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

Real quick, you know what I wish we could do to those people that do that to children? Say, okay, look, I'll give you a little off of your prison sentence if you just set it on that block right there and let me take a hammer to you.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:55

I don't know why we don't uter them.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

You know, people will tell you it's not it's a psychological thing, but I don't think it's psychological. If you're hurting a child, I'm fine with breaking. Look, I'm I'm I'm down for breaking up a lot of their body parts.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:09

Well, I I mean if you're already hurting children psychologically, what are you going to damage on them? They're already fucked up psychologically.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

Oh, yeah. You know? Yeah. I just you know, I think they are you know, people oh, chemical castration doesn't do anything. Well, you know what? Why waste some some good chemicals?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:26

Well, and this is just the appeals process too takes so long. It does, you know. And it's like you sit there and you you think about I think about my friend, and it's like, let's just say uh granted he didn't get uh sentenced to death, but had he, like the appeals process is forever, you know, and and it's it's so frustrating. Like I get it. People are so worried about having somebody who is innocent be put on trial and put to death and finding out later on that that happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

And it happens, it happens for sure. But Michael Morton wasn't sentenced, but that's a it's super rare though.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:00

You know, it's super rare. It is, but it's kind of sitting there saying, Hey, we've gotta we've gotta do this for every single one. Some people are just fucking dirtbags, you know. And when you do such when you do that good of a thorough job in court, you go through all the evidence, you find all this information, you hit all the criteria. Why are we waiting another 10 to 20 years to put them to death? Yeah, you know, it's like you're putting to death an old man that, and I'll be honest with you, like, I'm 49. 29-year-old Gabe and 49-year-old Gabe of two different people. Yeah. You know, let's put them to death, you know, let's put them to death when it's when it's time when when it's time to put them to death. Let's not wait 40 years. You know, because you're just putting the family through it even longer. You're prolonging things.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:45

I don't know why the appeal process takes so long, quite frankly. I really don't. I don't understand why it takes that long.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:50

Is there any way to for people to, or not people, but is there any way for the system to be remedied in some of those areas? Or is it just is what it is? It's always going to be that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

Uh the appellate process is there for a reason, and it's there for us, really. It's there for constitutional protections. Um, let's just go back to a law enforcement officer who didn't have the reasonable suspicion to pull you over in the first place. He ends up finding drugs. Okay, you're you were right, but you need a legal basis to stop somebody. Otherwise, you're in our freedoms are not protected, right? The law-abiding citizen could be stopped at any time for any reason. So you want to make sure that whoever has that position of power is acting under the proper color of their authority, and people either lie or they make mistakes or they're just not smart enough, and that can go through the whole process, which is why you need a judge who's knowledgeable, you need a prosecutor who's good at what they do, you need a defense attorney who's good at what they do, so that when you get that guilty verdict from a jury, it is tight and it is solid, and there are no appealable issues, and that record can go up and it can be a much quicker process where the appellate court can say, I don't see anything here of the city. So that's one way to handle it. It's affirmed, yeah. You got to have good people on the front line, which is why we're going back to why I'm running for district attorney. When you have somebody who has never been a prosecutor, never tried a case, Lucalena Choppa has never tried a case, and she wants to go in from the bottom all the way to the top, district attorney, and tell everybody else how that office is supposed to be run? Ridiculous. You have uh Jane Davis who's been in that office for four or five different prosecutors for 40 years. She doesn't have the perspective of a judge, she doesn't have the perspective of a defense attorney. She has been, in my mind, institutionalized Jane Davis. So what kind of change are we getting to get from somebody who's already been on the inside of the Bear County District's Attorney's Office, and we all see where that's led us. So you need somebody that has the experience that I have, quite frankly. You know, been a judge for eight years, a prosecutor for 10, defense attorney for four years. I've tried over 250 jury trials in my role in all those roles together. So you and it's a system, it's a three-legged stool, you know. You gotta have all those strong, strong stools to hold it up, right? So let me ask you who's running on the Republican side? Uh her name is Ashley Foster. Ashley and I worked together quite some time ago. She was at the DA's office when I started in 2004. She hasn't been in the DA's office for a long time. I think it's been 10 years. She's raising a family, good for her. She's been doing some civil work. I don't know how often she's practiced, quite frankly. And things change, let me tell you, things change. When I was on the bench for eight years, lost in 2018. I went back to the DA's office. I kind of had to learn how to be a prosecutor again. Technology had changed. Um, uh a lot of the way cases were handled, case law had changed. Um, you had to kind of learn what what is this case worth? Can I prove this case? So she has been out of the game for a very long time. Um, I get along with Ashley. She's she's an intelligent woman. She has been a prosecutor before, but you know, she hasn't been a judge, and if she did defense work, it was briefly. Um so, and again, I I think I don't think a Republican's going to win in Bear County. I just don't think so. They they haven't won in quite some time. And, you know, I again that's why I think now is the time. I think we're my website is www.tiredofthiscrap.com.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

And that puts it in a nutshell. I think we are all tired of this crap. We're tired of what we're seeing, we're tired of the parties dividing us. Let's get back to the middle. Let's get back to basic law enforcement. Let's give discretion back to the prosecutors that know what they're doing, make sure that they're coming from a good place. Same with law enforcement. And um, let's open up communication with the citizens. Let's give them a chance to come in, whether we do it by districts or city council districts. If we, you know, have citizens who want to come in and form a committee and say, hey, what's going on in your neighborhood? Tell me. Um, what is wrong? You know, look, you're gonna get your share of crazy people too, people that don't understand the process and think this wasn't justice, and they don't always get to hear everything, and the media rarely gets it right, and there's often another backside to that story that can explain it. But we need the communication. They've lost faith. They've lost faith in people who are in positions of power. So they may not like the answers, they may not like the results that I'm gonna give them, but I'm I'm happy to tell them why I did what I did or why a prosecutor did what they did.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:28

So well, I think I think that's important to people because I just feel like there's there's a there's a disconnect, right? If I commit a crime and I come to the courtroom and I'm I'm before you or before somebody else or before a judge, I already am on the defense. It's it's a you against me. Yeah. And I feel like if I understand that those jobs are already, you know, uh maxed out as far as capacity and what they're trying to do, and they're they're uh overworked and underpaid in some state in some instances. Yeah. But there needs to be there needs to be some sort of connection between the people who are judging the folks, the people who are the attorneys, and the population. There needs to be an understanding of just in one city, and this goes for every city, but when you think about San Antonio, all the different cultures that there are, the mentalities are different. You know, when you're talking about, you know, uh Stone Oak, or you're talking about, you know, now, you know, Southtown that's all kind of redone and nice, but then you get to some of the poor areas, you go to couples in General McMullen, you know, it's a different mentality, you know, but yet you've got to sit there and work with all of them. But you can't do a, I feel like you, and I see I'm using the royal you, but I feel like you can't do that job without understanding the population that you're serving. Yeah. You know, and yes, it's easy to go, okay, this is my job. I go to the courtroom, I'm I'm there from nine to four, I leave, I go take my kids. I I get that. But like we talked earlier, when you take on certain roles, when you take on certain jobs, certain careers, there's more expected from you. And if you're not willing to do that, if you're not willing to engage with the population, if you're not willing to do a little more legwork, instead of saying, hey, we're gonna try all these people the same because I've seen this a hundred times and it's always the same. No, I want you to do it individually. You know, we need to bring back, like you mentioned, wanting to bring back more prosecutors. You know, what I don't know how the funding works, but all this stuff needs to happen. It's one of those things where when you decide to do that job, you have to understand that there's more expected from you.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:39

You know, it's not a matter of, you know, when we talked about um Speedling Gonzalez, you know, it's not a matter of, hey, I'm the judge now mentality. No. You know, you're serving the population. You know, you're serving these people that you're judging.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:54

You know, and it's it just I feel like people run for office these days. And maybe again, maybe I'm I'm I'm an idiot and I'm just paying attention to politics as an adult. But I feel like people run for office, they don't understand how serious that job is. You know, you're affecting people's livelihoods, you're affecting people's abilities. And now, granted, maybe they did screw up, maybe they made a made a big mistake and they need to be put away. Yeah. But in some cases, like you mentioned earlier, in some cases, somebody just fucked up, man. And you know what? They need a look, they need an opportunity, they need to make it up to whoever they need to make it up to. Absolutely. They need to serve some sort of penalty.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:36

But a lot of cases, you don't want to ruin their life. You don't want to ruin their ability to provide for their family or to make things better and to get through it. And at the same time, you don't want them to wait five years before they can move on with the rest of their life. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, like I talked about my friend with the DWI. Three fucking years. You know, yeah. It's it's a it puts life on hold for people.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:59

You know? I ran for judge for county court at law number two. I was a prosecutor in there, and when I it was the biggest backlog court in Bear County, and I would announce ready for trial, and the judge was doing weddings in the back chambers and would never bring in a jury, reset after reset after reset. There was one kid that was charged with reckless driving when he was maybe 17 years old, 18. By the time I took the bench after I won, 10 years had passed. He had been wanting his trial. He had graduated from high school, graduated from college, he had a wife and two kids, and he was still waiting for his jury trial. The, you know, the uh You're not even the same person anymore. No, defense attorney filed a speedy trial motion, and I granted it in a heartbeat. But yes, these are real power, and and you've got to take your job seriously and you've got to treat people with respect, even though they may be guilty of something. And so, yeah, I mean, look, when I was a prosecutor and I would read a file and I just started, I would think to myself, oh shit, that's a crime. I didn't know that was a crime. You know, you mean me throwing eggs at my buddy's car at the school when I was in the middle school. Yeah, right. And I'm like, oh, every Halloween? That was a crime. Um But so there was times where I would say, hey, go take this class or pay this restitution and you know, scare the shit out of a young kid and and you know, dismiss the case. And that's still appropriate. And I think there's you know more opportunities for pretrial diversion where you can say you get that little bit of flesh, but you're not forestalling somebody's future. Somebody who you know is just gonna be a self-corrector, right? Yeah, you've got the people that are automatic self-correctors, they they screwed up. Um, as long as it's not, you know, I mean, you don't just make a mistake by sticking a gun in somebody's face and robbing them, right? We're not talking about those kinds of offenses. But um, so and then you have the people who are just always gonna be back, you know, that don't don't take advantage of the services or the opportunities. And so you and then the people that are in between. So discretion matters, um, and justice is ethereal, but you know, you gotta have the training, you gotta have a little bit of the experience, and then hopefully that gets you to the best outcome, even though maybe not everybody's happy, right? There's seldomly is there happy people in the courthouse.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:10

Jason, what do you want to tell people about that job? What do you want to tell people about the judges and the attorneys that all work in that at that job that they don't understand? You know, earlier you mentioned about the things that you've seen, uh evidence that you've had to go through, uh things that that will stick with you for the rest of your life. You know, uh I hope there's some sort of I hope the county pays for some sort of of uh therapy or somebody to talk to because I I'm sure there's times where you know I always start working at jail and we'd go through some of the case files, and it was amazing what people would do to each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:48

But what do you want people to understand about the people that work in the courtroom or the courthouse?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:52

I I think really I never thought I was going to run for this job. I didn't want to run for this job. I think it's a thankless job, but I became really disheartened with the state of the DA's office. I saw too many people having to come back time and time again, not getting their day in court, or victims not being listened to or heard to. Um, saw who the list of candidates were, thought, gosh, I I don't think I have faith in those individuals to do the job that I think I could do. Um, so I wasn't called to be a judge. I wanted to be a judge. I thought I could clean up that court and I did. I really feel like I'm being called to do it this time. And um it's not a job that I'm I'm wanting to seek to so I can get re-elected and re-elected and re-elected. I'm okay if I get elected and it's only four years, but I know I've done the best that I can to support the prosecutors that are good prosecutors, to give training to these young prosecutors who are being thrown into these courts by themselves and have no idea what they're doing and learning on the job without somebody there next to them saying, no, that's not appropriate or this is appropriate. I want to again give some discretion back to our law enforcement officers, tell them thank you for what they're doing when they are coming from a good place and they're being smart about the way they approach their job, backing them up. I want to call out the judges that are ego-driven, that think that they are the only thing that matters inside of a courtroom because they they aren't the only thing that matters. They have the most immediate power. The prosecutor has the next most immediate power, or maybe just as powerful from a different perspective. The defense attorney is in there just smiling and shaking their head and saying, Well, thank you when somebody is being rude to you, but they are just as important too. So we all need to work together to make the justice system work. And I'm really just doing it because I've spent my life in this and in that in that courthouse, and I want to make it better. I get emotional over it.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:56

No, it's it's uh it's an important job, man. And and you know, it's it's interesting because when you talk about wanting to provide more, I guess, mentorship to younger prosecutors, you know, it it it kind of blows my mind to think that somebody could be in that job with um minimal I guess uh knowledge on certain things, maybe you're not being exposed to certain cases, but yet you're still responsible for the outcome of somebody's life. Yeah. Like that's that's a serious stuff. It's not scary, isn't it? It's serious stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:30

It is. Um it is. I remember like, hey, this should I do this on this case? And you know, the prosecutor next to me who had some experience was like, Are you crazy? No, that's way over the top, or no, that's not enough, or just like trying a case is difficult, right? And you gotta get it right. Picking a jury is not easy either. When you don't really get to pick them, you just get with what's left over. So I've seen way too many cases being found not guilty where the state had all the evidence that they needed to get a guilty, but it's only because they didn't have the training necessary to prove that case. And that even you know, I'm a defense attorney now, but that's disheartening. I'm still a citizen of Bear County. You still want to make sure that if you've got a good case that you prove that case. So it's just it's I mean, I have just as an example. I'm in trial as a defense attorney. The prosecutor says, ask the the complainant, hey, are you on this video? And she's like, Yes. Like, Judge, we offer states one. Like, and the judge allowed it in. And I'm thinking, that's not even close to the predicate that you're supposed to lay, right? You're supposed to ask things like, was this made on a device capable of uh taking an accurate recording? Does this uh fairly inaccurately represent the situation for which it captured? You know, were you capable of recording this? Has there been any alterations or deletions? And who the person who's just on that video can't answer those questions. So it was a complete lack of understanding of the things you're supposed to ask in order to get that into evidence so that if you do get it guilty, you are protecting it, right? Had they found my client guilty, which they didn't, it was a not guilty, had they found him guilty, that would have been an appealable issue for me. And I guarantee you that video would have come back out, and I could have made the argument that it adversely affected the outcome, and so that that would have been game over for the state. So it's important to know how to get the evidence and get it in the right way so you can't attack it on appeal later.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:27

You know, uh you've you've you've mentioned ego a couple times, and I've done a couple of podcasts with some some friends. Uh one of them we've become pretty good friends, and another one we still stay in contact. Uh and and the the mentality that I think that we got out of those conversations was Gary Brugman was one of them. And uh Gary Brugman had uh uh gotten to a fight with a couple of illegals when he was working for the Border Patrol. Uh this was under Bush and uh Johnny Sutton. And uh Gary said, I'm in the urinal and one of the attorneys that are with the you know with Johnny Sutton comes and stands right next to me to pee next to me. He said, and uh I asked him, I said, Do you really believe that I'm guilty of everything you're accusing me of? And he said, Gary, it doesn't matter what I believe. He said, I have fifty million dollars to make sure you go to prison. He said, You're going to prison. Holy cow. The other gentleman was an FBI agent who sold a gun to another police officer. The police officer took that gun, put it on consignment at a gun store, I think, in El Paso. The owner of the gun store was being investigated by the DEA. They allowed that gun to go into Mexico. The guy's two purchases removed from the gun. He ended up doing two years for letting his gun go into Mexico. And it's interesting because the attitude that I got from talking to them is there is an attitude of ones and zeros. We're gonna win or we're gonna lose. And it needs to be what's the truth?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:19

Are we getting the truth or are we winning the case? And I think a lot of attorneys want to win the case, they're less concerned with the truth.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:26

And I'm not saying that every prosecutor comes from the right place, and there's some who may have that attitude, but you know, I talked about some of the best moments I had in my my career was dismissing a case. I had this young African-American woman who um was getting ready to take a plea, placed on five years deferred. I just got put into that court, so that offer had come from a prior prosecutor, and I kind of read it real quick, and and I said, you know, the defense attorney says, well, she's ready to take the plea. And I look over and she's sitting with her father, and she's very well kept, and she he he says she's a nursing student at UTSA. It just didn't make a lot of sense to me. She was charged with aggravated, aggravated assault on a public servant and invading in a vehicle. And I'm like, that that girl? Uh huh. I said, let me let me look at this, okay? Let me look at this offer, let me look at the evidence. So I got a reset from the judge. I bring in the officer, I watch a video, and I bring in the officer, and it was this white officer, UTSA officer. And he says, Here's the fact pattern. He says, Well, I was walking, I was walking, not in my patrol car, and she kind of went through the crosswalk with some students in there. So I wanted her to pull over so I could give her a ticket, and I bang on the back of the car and I tell her to pull over. And she didn't park in this space, she parked like two extra spaces from the one that I wanted her to park in. Evading in a vehicle. He goes up and he stands with and that's not even close to evading in a vehicle. It's ridiculous charge.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:47

So can I get evading in a vehicle if I if I'm getting pulled over, but I want to find a safe place so I keep going for another?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

Potentially, yeah, potentially. People use that argument a lot, like I wanted a safe place, but this was not evading in a vehicle. Vehicle, literally two parking spaces over from where he had wanted her to pull over, despite the fact he didn't say that. So he this idiot stands next to her window and he's yelling at her, right? Yelling at her. He has his foot under her front tire. She rolls forward a little bit onto his foot. He drags her out of that vehicle. He charges her with aggravated assault on a public servant because the dumbass had his foot too close to her tire. When he came in, he says, you know, yeah, I was watching all these pretty girls watch walking through the crosswalk. He was a racist piece of shit. He had too much power. I dismissed those charges. This this and she went on to graduate, get her nursing license. I don't know, you know, but I'm in my heart, I believe she saved people. Um, but she would have lost all of that. So it wasn't about numbers to me. It will never be about numbers to me. It's about what is the right thing to do. And in that case, she was completely innocent. So that is one of the best moments that I've had. So yeah, you it I and I've I haven't really met any prosecutor that has said, man, it's about getting a conviction on this one. Although I've had bosses tell me, like, look, you're just gonna have to try this one. Um, I almost lost my job. I was almost fired because I it was an incident where uh Bear County sheriff officer was building a house, a white guy, and the contractor was this older black man, and the contractor, the sheriff said, Oh, he stole over $200,000 from me. The prosecutor indicted it without ever really looking at it, in my opinion. It was a box disheveled when I took over the case. And again, I talked to the defense attorney. He's like, No, this isn't what you think. And so I took the time to look at it. I brought in the bank, I brought in the loan officer, and the guy said, No, man, these draws were made by the sheriff. And if anything was misapplied, it was the sheriff, it wasn't this builder. I told my boss, I said, Look, I'm dismissing this case. And this was a first-degree felony. He says, You're not the goddamn DA, and you don't decide what to do. And if you you know, you better try this case. And I said, I took an oath to do justice. I'm dismissing this case, and I don't give a shit. I almost lost my job, but it was the right thing to do. So, yeah, it's never going to be about numbers with me.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:10

I did uh I did a podcast with a gentleman named Gilmer Hernandez. He used to be a law enforcement officer, I guess, I think it was Calviny, uh, in like Rockwall, I think it was. This was probably like 20 years ago or something. Uh I met him through Gary. There was a uh uh van full of illegals um tried to run him over, he shot at the car, chased him. Long story short, he ends up being found not guilty. Uh I think uh Texas Rangers came and investigated the state troopers in. Found him not guilty. Uh the lady that got hit in the face, they believe that it was a ricochet of the bullet, but it also could have been a part of the vehicle that she was laying down next to. Uh there in there it turns out there's a letter from a Mexican consulate who's who sent to the state of Texas telling them, hey, this is what happened. This officer needs to be uh arrested. He ends up getting arrested. And it's funny because there's Gary, who's a border patrol, there's uh John Shipley, who's FBI, and it was uh Gilmer, who's a county police officer, and they all got one to two years. And it's interesting to me because it's like if these guys are as bad and are as guilty of what they're saying, why are we giving them just the minimum the a one or two years? You know, and it starts to look like, hey, we're just trying to get a w a win. We're just trying to say, hey, look how many people we've prosecuted. You know, look the fast and furious thing was bananas, because that guy was tw two uh purchases removed from that gun.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:47

Still came back to get him, still did two years.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:49

That's what that was. I knew that sounded familiar, fast and furious. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:52

Yeah. So it's crazy. Hey, and you know, I just want I just want there to be some accountability with folks, and not just in Bear County, all over the country. There's to be accountability on law enforcement, there needs to be accountability in the justice system, there needs to be accountability in the people, the the population. Everybody needs to be accountable.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:12

You know, one thing that's important that people need to understand, and it goes for friendships, right? Trust is very difficult to earn, but it's so easy to lose. You know, and that goes for the people in the neighborhood, that goes for the people, you know, in uh in the justice system, that goes for the cops. And it's like if you sit there and you concern yourself with, hey, I want to have the the respect of the people around me, you'd act a little differently, I think, sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:39

I think so. You know, I want to say something real quick. Uh, the procedural running as an independent is difficult. I have to get 500 signatures from people who are eligible voters in Bear County, who didn't vote in the last primary, this primary, or who don't vote in the runoff. I'm gonna have one month starting May 27th to get these 500 signatures. I've got a lot of people willing and waiting, wait for Wolf is my uh slogan for that. Um so come May 27th, I can start collecting these fig signatures. Uh, once I have those 500, I'm gonna need 500 signatures that are good signatures. Then I can petition the state uh secretary of state and I'll be on the ballot in November. So for those individuals who haven't voted in the primary, who aren't voting in the primary, who are registered in Bear County, you can still register. You have plenty of time to do that. Reach out to me, www.tiredthesscrap.com, or you can hit me up on TikTok at Call The Wolf. Send me a message, I'll put you on the list, and we're gonna have volunteers and I'm gonna have events that will go on, and I can get your signature and you can get me on that ballot.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:35

It's awesome, Jason. Yeah, Jason, I appreciate your time. Hey, I appreciate you coming out. I know you made a little bit of a drive. Oh, thank you for the invitation. I really appreciate you coming out, and and I've enjoyed talking to you, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:45

Yeah, same right back at you. May 27th. May 27th. I can start collecting my signatures, and then I'll be on that ballot and come November, the November election, you're gonna have a Republican, you're gonna have a Democrat, and you're gonna have me, independent.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:58

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:58

Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:59

Jason, very nice meeting you, bud.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:01

Thank you so much. Yeah, you bet. Take care. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:07

Thanks for listening to the Gabe Molina podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:16

Yo, Barry.