GMP Ep 121 Nigel Fischer

Nigel Fischer is the Director of Business Development at Health 210 and the Founder of Uncharted-US, helping people with effective business decision making.

Featuring Sunny Sauceda.

Nigel’s profile: linkedin.com/in/nigel-fischer-6170b310

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

It's funny because Sonny was pissing me off uh a couple years ago. I redid the intro. And it was like 25 seconds long. And I sent it to him. He was like, it's too long. Make it shorter. And like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, he made a mistake to ask me, what do you think? Are you sure you want to know?

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Well, it's crazy because like I was doing it on an iPad. I didn't know what I was doing. I was just playing and things were working out. And I was like, oh, it's 25 seconds. That's not bad. I sent it to Sunny, he's like, too long. And so I 19 seconds. Send it back to Sonny. It's too long. I think I got it down to nine. So I think it's at nine seconds now, which and in hindsight I go, oh, that's pretty good. Like I'll tell Sonny that that was the dumbest thing I ever did listening to him. But when Sonny's not around, I'm like, ah, that's pretty smart. But it's funny because like he says that I've got about five guys that I don't ask them their opinion unless I really want it. And like there's things where like even after I got it down to nine seconds, I send it to the five guys. And they're the guys that are gonna tell me, dude, that sucks. You know, and they'll mean it, right? They're not gonna go, I like it. They're gonna go, it sounds weird, or it sounds like this, or it's too sh too long. And it's funny because like I don't go to them for a lot of things because I should I like I like being happy, right? If I go to these five, I'm like, oh. But there's times where it's like I feel very thankful that I have them because when I gotta know, I'll ask one of these five.

SPEAKER_07 1:37

You're listening to the Gabe Molina podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:45

Fellas, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, Sonny, you brought a friend. I did. It's a bring your friend thing. Bring your friend thing. Last time I had Sonny on, we were talking, and Sonny's kind of on heading into some uh uncharted waters, you know. And uh he talked about the process and what he's looking to do, and then he mentioned you how you've been helpful and and uh in your executive coaching, and I just wanted uh ask you a few questions and see what you got going on, man. I you know, what what have you been able to talk to Sonny about now that he's here? Uh let's pretend that he's not. Pretend I'm not here. What was that about when you how did y'all meet, first of all, but then after that, how did you get into you know lending a hand to Sonny?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Oh yeah. Uh so you know, I think it was really just uh a cool friendship that materialized pretty organically. Was it at a bar? Turned into uh no bar. Um maybe it should have been, I don't know. But um, you know, we met through a songwriter's retreat. Oh. And I was doing some work in nonprofit that um was music related, helping veterans through uh using the guitar as kind of a therapeutic outlet. Uh I'm a guitar practicer, I wouldn't call myself a musician.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Well, you you know enough to get invited to the to the cookouts open.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Yeah, well, you know, I got to go uh to meet some really cool people like Sonny, and you know, something really struck me about him when we met because there were a lot of people there.

SPEAKER_05 3:19

It's the really good smelling beard oil.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I think so. That must have the beer beard because that's what drew me in.

SPEAKER_05 3:26

Fair bones.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Fair bones secret weapon, you know. Strong pheromones. No, but we um, you know, I think we just really hit it off because we were just two dudes that weren't there about anything other than being just ourselves. We weren't trying to be anybody different. Not saying that anyone else there was different from that in their core, um, but there was just something really raw in that way, but in a good way. It was just very um positive, I guess is the best way I would put it. And that's something that I really like to try to focus on most in life. Um been through a lot of wild things which we probably don't have time for today.

SPEAKER_05 4:08

Uh well, give us a little background because you've got a long background, you don't have to get into it too deep. But you're in the military and some other things.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yeah. Um, you know, I was in the Marine Corps uh for 20 years, and so I got to have a lot of really neat experiences that were really an honor and a privilege to be able to be entrusted with the types of roles that I was able to earn through my service in the Marine Corps. I started out at 17, I enlisted uh as soon as I graduated high school, and I had this dream of being a fighter pilot. Oh, and uh people are like, but wait, why'd you go in the Marine Corps if you wanted to be a fighter pilot? And it was, you know, late in high school, I just really wanted something that was gonna be extremely challenging in a way that that was the best I could see in the world as like that utmost challenge, right? Like the Marine Corps is you know revered for um being super challenging and it it's no cakewalk. And you know, you probably remember the old posters, it's like you know, the drill instructor yelling in somebody's face and there's spit you can see in the calling you back it, yeah, exactly. And and they go, Hey, we never promised you a rose garden. Yeah, and I I grew up, my my mom was a cop, my dad was a cop, my stepmom was a cop. So we had really, you know, a lot of hardcore standards and rules in the house. And so I was used to that order and discipline, but I think more importantly, and and before we started, you were sharing some things about you know how you were raised, and I think that sticks with us and you know really ingrains those core values. And to me, that was work hard, contribute to the world. And so when Sunny and I met, and you know, totally different backgrounds in terms of how we spent most of our adult life at the moment that we met, and here this guy's you know the super accomplished, you know, Grammy Award winner and everything, and just a humble dude. And so I was like blown away. Yeah, I think you know, the Sonny that you get to see when you know him personally like Glinton.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

When you called Sonny humble, that I got that feeling when somebody says, Are you losing weight? And I know that I'm not. I'm like, No.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

No, but um, yeah, so you know, we we got to know each other a little bit through that, and he was asking me, so you know, tell me about you. And I go, you know, started telling him the story about the Marine Corps and everything, and he was telling me about family members and how much um, you know, he appreciated folks that um sacrificed in that way. And I think the thing that we really enjoyed was we all have a different role in this world, and so it's not like anybody is better than anyone else, it's just we all have our own journey. And so just learning about each other, we got to know each other more and more over time. And what we were focused on in the moment is both having a passion for serving, and that's kind of you know, for me, it came from um you know, service in the military, but then what do you do when you retire? And I just have that servant's heart, I think. You know, it's wanting to do for others with you know, whatever God's given me is I owe that to others. That's that's how I feel. And I could tell that he felt the same way through his music is let me do something good in this world with this talent. And hearing his story of you know, m being successful from an early age and and where that you know ended up leading later in life. That was such a cool thing to hear his journey in the same way, but it was driven from that same sense of, you know, it's a passion, but it still goes back to, you know, what can I do to make other people happy, bring joy in their lives and everything. So I don't know, did I did I miss anything in there?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

I don't think you did. I mean, it it kind of kind of it progressed, right? We I just remember this guy kind of real chill. We were doing we were songwriting, and I kept seeing this guy walk and say, Who's this guy? You know, very quiet, didn't talk to many people. Who was this guy? And finally, one day I just finally had the right opportunity. So I'm gonna talk to this guy. I didn't even know why. I just said, hey, I'm Sonny, and I said I didn't get to say hi to you. You know, I just you know, are you a songwriter? And we just kind of started talking. And like anytime I meet somebody in the military or you know, like the Marines, always I always wanted to be a Marine, right? They didn't have short fat according players in the Marines, I didn't qualify. But I I admire uh the Marine. I used to even wear a high-and-tight. So anytime I get to talk to a Marine, I'm excited. Tell me, you know, how was it? Or, you know, and it's those just those things. And we kept talking, kept, kept in touch. Um, and like Nigel said, you know, just kind of meeting people from different backgrounds, and you have like a commonality, right? Oh yeah, this, and I had no idea, right? Because you think, because you don't you just don't know who you're talking to. And that's why I always believe in, you know, I say hi to the owner of the place, and I say hi to the cleaning lady because you just don't know who you're talking to, right? Little did I know that there was this killing machine sitting right there like in front of me, like you can kill me with this pinky, with this secret marine uh move or something. And we're just having a great conversation and we just kept in touch, really. Yeah, you know, and and that's how it kind of started. Uh kept in touch, kept in touch, and um after that it turned into more, right? Because uh that's when I was working with folk life, and you know, that's how kind of I I mean I'm gonna let him talk about that part of Uncharted, but how that whole thing started. But it was it was just really cool to hang out. And really, and and it's funny because we as far as music went, the one thing we did have in common is that we, you know, uh love music and we serve through music, and he served uh veterans through music, right? He was like a conduit conduit for music, you know, therapy and veterans, and so that was kind of interesting to know. I had no idea. And so we had it was just kind of that was kind of something that I linked us together.

SPEAKER_05 10:23

When did when did y'all eventually kind of when did you realize that there was a me?

unknown 10:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 10:33

Oops.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

I thought I thought you just had the jams here.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

Oh, yes, I just wanted to turn it off. Okay, I was like, oh, okay. Y'all want to finish that song? When when did you realize that there was a service that you provided that Sonny might be able to benefit from? Yeah. How long in talking and and what kind of drew that to the forefront?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

I don't think he didn't know that. I told him. Oh, really? Because because when I went when I joined Folklife, Texas Folk Life, I surrounded, I made it a point to surround myself with people who I thought would be a great influence, right? And in talking to Nigel, I knew his background, and we had a long talk. We actually had a few talks. Um, and then I knew his background in corporate America, you know, background in the Marines, background in nonprofit. I said, I'm gonna keep him on my like list of people to keep in touch with. And so that's how we kept in touch. And I we kept, I said, hey, and I I think I caught you at the right time, right? It's the story of my life, at the right place at the right time. I said, Hey, um I'm serving in this new role. Um, these things are happening. Can you just kind of give me some, give me some, you know, put some guardrails up and just I want to make sure that I'm on the right track.

SPEAKER_05 11:47

Well, you know what that is, and it and it's funny because I feel like the majority of the podcasts I do, the the word mentorship keeps popping up. And it's like, when I was a kid, everything that I needed to know, my dad would teach me, right? And and as I got older, I was like, I don't need a mentor. I was very sure, and we talked about it earlier, I think I'm the man everywhere I go, right? And so, but as I've gotten older and I talk to people and I see people that are that are successful when whatever success looks like, sometimes it's a temporary success, sometimes it's long-term, uh, sometimes it's recurring success. There's always somebody that's been there that they're learning from. Yes, and it's like we take that for granted, and that mentorship is huge, man.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

It is, it is, and we had those talks, and I kept telling, you know, Nigel, you're you know, you're so smart, you're so brilliant, you have a great mind. And and I said, You you should consider being like a life coach or like an executive coach. And I said, You would do really good. I mean, that's just me, like, because we were having these conversations, um, and and I think you were you were uh you were taking a break, right? And y'all was like, this is perfect. I'm I'm kind of free. I said, Well, I want to book you once a week or every other week. Like when you have a time, 30 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever you have time for, I I'm glad that I can have it. So I would schedule, I schedule it in. Oh, yeah. And and I think even times where I was in Dallas, hey, we I would sit down and all right, let's have our talk. I'm sorry I'm running behind, but let's have a talk. This is what's happening right now. What do you think? Well, am I on the right track? Yes. Or, well, and I love his approach, and it's it's it's uh it comes from um uh from a um compassion uh side, right? It's not you need to do this, blah blah blah. There's no maggots involved in this in his talks. There's no you know you maggot. It's always like, well, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm not, this is unsolicited. And at first I would tell him, like, why do you say that? But then I was like, oh, I get it. Okay. But you're building that trust with that person because they're not people, I feel that people want to be told what to do, but when they're told what to do, then they're some resistance. No, no, no, but wait, wait a minute. Yeah, but when you approach it that way, and it's like, well, I'm not telling you what to do, but this is what I've done, this is what what I've lived through. Um, uh, and and and then I listen, I'm okay. And so it was a great approach, and I just kept telling them over and over, dude, you need to do this. Like, you need to do something here. Because I feel you have something to give uh to anybody in any kind of business. It doesn't even have to be what we call, I mean, and now that I think about business, business, corporate America, arts, music, anything, really, just any kind of mentorship, because somebody who's and I love I love your mission. Is it part of your mission statement? From the battlefield to the boardroom?

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yes. Oh man, that it was who can say that?

SPEAKER_01 14:39

I can't say that. Nigel. Nigel can say I can't say that. I can't say that. So when you say from the battlefield to the boardroom, man, that is powerful, right? You think about that. Somebody who has served their country, somebody who served in corporate America, who served the nonprofit world, and it's just all these different angles, and it just, I mean, to me, it's a no-brainer. So I'm I'm over here with the big, I'm the big cheerleader. I'm like, Najee Fish. No, no, and that's how it started.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

Yeah, no, it really did. You know what's interesting is like when I'm watching Sunny talk about it, you know, sometimes I sit there and go, How do you well somebody like Sunny worse like, hey, I got 15 minutes, right, before I gotta go in my next thing. You know, and you want to provide substance in that 15 minutes. But at the same time, it's kind of like uh Sonny, you know Sonny better than anybody else in the room, right? So it's kind of like it sounds like that maybe there might be an approach there where it's kind of it's maybe a little broad, like you said, you you don't want to you know dictate your next move, but it's it's another way to look at things. And what's funny, and and I'm guilty of this too, is I find myself uh not seeing the forest for the trees, right? And sometimes you need somebody to just go, hey man, here's a different perspective. And if you're open to it, if you're the type of person that's open to a different perspective, you can see so much more than you could before.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

So you really can, and I I think that's the game changer for all of us. And it's not well, I think I have honed the ability to do that more than a lot of people have through a lot of those crazy experiences and and in a variety of different environments, and so I've learned that the skills needed um are universally applicable, as as Sunny was starting to say, is it's more about how do I approach decision making and what matters to the people that I'm working with. And like in the case of Sunny, and you you mentioned it a very short amount of time. There were times where he'd be like, hey man, you got like five minutes, can I can I ask you something? And I'd be like, Yeah, I got five minutes, man. Let's, you know, and we jump on a call and he'd be like, All right, so here's what's happening, and you know, here's what's kind of tripping me up on this, and where do you think I should go from here? And instead of me saying, Oh, you should do, I try to always avoid that. Try. And always is probably not completely accurate, but I I check myself pretty vigorously in that way of reverting to a place of wanting to be curious about what that person's experiencing and what their options are that they can see in front of them. And then if I go, okay, have you considered this? And then Sonny goes, Well, yeah, but this thing stands in the way of that being successful. Okay, have you considered this? And he goes, Well, I'm not, yeah, I don't know that I have. Okay, let's talk about that for a moment then. Because if you haven't considered it, it could be an option that I see maybe possible, but you need to fill in some blanks as to whether you think it's actually going to be possible. So that's where the questions come in. And I think it's uh the skill that I have gained over time through all of you know these life experiences and challenging roles and unique problem solving around the world, um, is just the ability to think of the right questions that will help unlock the ability to see through that smoke, kind of, so to speak. You know, it's like uh what was that movie, Days of Thunder? And it was like, you know, the the driver's been in this big car wreck, and so he's like really scared about any time there's a wreck, you know, he doesn't want to drive through that because something bad's gonna happen in his mind. But what the guy that's you know working with him, coaching him on his team and everything to make him successful ultimately in the movie, it was like Tom Cruise, right? I think you know, just gets him to understand that sometimes the best bet is don't put on the brakes, like jam on the gas and take a line, because the faster you get out of that fray, the less likely you are to get caught up in it. And so that's kind of the approach I like to take is hey, let's not worry so much about all this chaos that's happening, let's see what's on the other side and figure out the fastest path to get there. So that's what we've done together, I think.

SPEAKER_05 19:06

Let me ask you this. Um I've heard people say, and he was a military guy as well, he kind of taught me to taught this to me, but uh I've heard other people say it where an 80% decision is still a good choice to make, right? Maybe it's uh maybe just going off of 80% is good. But sometimes, and this is something that I don't tell very many people because then my sister's like, you're lazy. And uh because she does that all the time. But uh uh sometimes I feel, and you can tell me your opinion on it. Sometimes I feel sometimes I feel like no decision is a bad decision, but sometimes I also feel like let me wait and see what it clears up. There's been there's been times where in the industry that I'm in where I want to make a decision and I want to make a move and I want to do it right now because there's so many problems on the table and I'm trying to knock out problems. But then there's been times where I'm like, you know what, let me let this sit. Let me let it sit a day, let me let it sit until after lunch. And amazingly, sometimes my problems sort themselves out.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

They do.

SPEAKER_05 20:10

Or I didn't realize it, but maybe somebody on the other end, somebody else on another pro portion of the design team already has that answer. And if I just pause for a minute, like the days of thunder, right? We can either go up to the top of the wall and hit the gas, but in my mind, sometimes I'm like, let me hit the brakes and let all these cars clear out and smoke clear. When is there a time for that and when there's a time for the other? Or is one a bad bad idea?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I you know, it's um one of those military answers that you go back to and people go, Well, it depends. And and I think that's true. Um I believe that some patience goes a long way. I really do.

SPEAKER_05 20:50

Oh, I hate patience, but I agree with it. It's it's hard, it's hard.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

And I think um I also am an impatient person and I like to just hurry up, let's get done with it so that this problem goes away and I can move on to the next thing. I have found moments where just a slight intentional pause to wait for more information can be very effective. I like to use that time to educate myself and prepare for what may come next. And so while it's a pause, I find a lot of comfort in doing things that I know will aid me in a better understanding of what I believe I'm seeing. Because sometimes, and we experience this together, there were times where there was some urgency that was maybe self-created to a degree, right? Um, where we feel figuratively, and I I think we even use these words, it feels like there's a gun to your head. Yeah. Like you have to make a decision. If you don't make a decision, somebody's gonna pull this trigger. And the question I would ask in those moments, I'd go, Sonny, wait, is there a gun to your head in this moment? What happens if you wait? And what happens if you follow up with some questions to understand better what you believe is happening, but understand truly whether it is or isn't happening in the way that you think.

SPEAKER_05 22:26

So if there's something that's that's a huge fire that really needs to get answered, well then that's maybe where the 80% hitting the gas and going through the top of the wall comes in. And if there's something that's less critical, maybe that's a time for it almost sounds like a productive pause, right? We're not just pausing and not doing anything, we're pausing and maybe reevaluating a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Certainly. And and that's something I learned in warfare. Um, so leading Marines in combat, that's one of those times where there are very specific opportunities where the only answer is we have to do something right now. So even if it's a flawed plan, an imperfect plan, it hasn't been rehearsed and extremely well thought out, but we all agree that this is probably good enough right now. Um, we have this this phrase that we would use for those moments, and it was a you know, partially ideal plan is going to be more successful when executed with violence of action. So, in other words, get behind it wholeheartedly. No matter whether you think it's gonna be successful or not, if you just approach it like it's going to be and you execute that plan rapidly and with everything you've got, chances are you're gonna make your own luck in that moment. Um, because you don't have the luxury of time when bullets are flying and maybe people's lives are at stake. When all of that dies down, though, what do people immediately do in combat? They start assessing how much more ammunition do we have, where's the closest place that we can go to uh potentially link up with another portion of a force so we can gain greater numbers? Can we get those reinforcements? And immediately every second of pause is used with intention. And so when you get good at using what seems like a pause in a very meaningful way, I I think it's good for your mindset because you feel like you're doing something towards a productive outcome instead of just waiting. And that one's me, and that's gonna go away in a second.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

That's her well, you know what's funny is like uh, and I even told Sonny on the last podcast we recorded, I feel like um oh man. I feel like I'm a good person, but I got a ton of negative traits. Uh you know, and it's it's funny because like I feel like the majority of my life I've retarded my growth because I would talk myself, I I could sit in the living room and I could I man, I want to do this, and I get an idea and I think of all the negative things that could come from it, and I go, it's not worth it. Let me stay where I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

You know, and and it even like with the career, we talked about that earlier. You know, it's kind of one of those things where I like to stick with the devil I know. And it's like that doesn't sometimes I feel sometimes I feel like I haven't allowed myself to be where I should be. Because I feel, and this is another negative trait, like I enjoy a struggle, right? I enjoy I used to always say, I don't care what job you give me, I want the worst job we have here. Because I want to be able to say, hey, if I can do that, I can do everything else we do here. That was my mentality, and I think that came from dad somewhat. But at the same time, it was kind of like I get so comfortable with with not being where I think I should be. And and sometimes I sit there and go, Man, if if I would allow myself to explore, if I would allow myself to pursue I had a conversation with people a couple weeks ago, and this is embarrassing to say because I'm almost 50. But I said, I've never I've never pursued a goal, I've never pursued a dream. I've always taken what nobody else wanted to do, and I took that and made it mine. And and even with what I do now, like when I started doing plumbing design, an engineer called me and said, Hey, nobody here wants to do plumbing design, you want to do it? I said, Yeah. And it was the mentality, and again, that was from dad, where it was like, hey, your job's important, keep it, do whatever you gotta do. So if it was the guy that cleaned the toilets, if it was the guy that did the job nobody wanted to do, that's what I would do. And it was it was interesting because now at 50, you know, I'm sitting there going, I've never pursued a goal. And I look at Sonny, and I, you know, Sonny's career and and the things he gets into and how he's so open to pursuing other things. And I'm sure he has anxiety about things at times, but he's so open to pursuing things. And I'm I get I'm so afraid to. Like, I'm okay here because I'm used to, you know, arguing at work or being uncomfortable or not making enough money or being miserable. You know what I'm saying? All those things are things that I go, okay, you know, I I I can live with that, you know. My mentality toward a lot of things is like I like to find the worst outcome that could happen from this thing, and if I'm okay with that happening to me, I'll stay put. You know, but I never go sometimes. I feel if I pursued something that I really cared about, I would be less stressed, I'd be uh more enthusiastic. You know, we're talking earlier, it's like all I do is work. I wake up, I work till I fall asleep. And I'm so busy that I don't even think about what I don't have, or I don't even think about you know what I could be pursuing because I'm full, right? I'm full of things that I don't really want, but I'm full, you know. And so being able to talk to somebody, have a mentor, have somebody say, Hey man, why don't you adjust here a little bit? And before you before you know it, you might find yourself on the cusp of something new. That kind of stuff scares me, though.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, well, and it can be scary for a lot of people, really. Um, and I don't think that that's uncommon. Um we find things that are our comfort zone, even if they are uncomfortable. Um, it's where we're happy because we know the limits of that discomfort.

SPEAKER_07 28:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

And when we put ourselves out there in a way that is maybe beyond into kind of that unknown discomfort or that unknown risk or uncertainty realm, um, because you know, we've gotten good at knowing where the challenges are gonna come from, um, where the struggles are gonna come from, and we're okay with that. Um, but we go, but what happens if it's something that maybe I'm not prepared to address? And that's where um, you know, when we were talking about Sonny being, you know, kind of the the biggest fan, the person that encouraged me was he goes, Hey, you know, you you've got something here that you can use to help people. And I go, Well, sure, but you know, I want to be retired, and you know, I'm I'm kind of thinking about just enjoying retirement, seeing what that looks like, you know, doing volunteer work um and you know, being satisfied with that. And he goes, No, no, no, I think you know, you you really need to get out there. And I started thinking about it and I go, well, you know, how hard can it really be? You know, because it's really what we were doing together.

SPEAKER_05 29:52

I just said he does have three Grammys.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

I'm the annoying happy guy. You should do that, you should not be comfortable at home. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Retirement, retirement, retirement.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

But you know, I got comfortable in the thought of I've I've led, you know, this this crazy life that's been full of extremes. Um, traveling around the world, living in foreign countries, in, you know, a lot of them not super hospitable, where um, you know, there was a lot of risk to my own safety. And through the course of that, um, it it can get really exhausting. And so you get to a place and you're like, I just want to slow down. You know, I just I want to be comfortable. But as we were talking about, I go, you know, I I've shared with people that I think there is the ability for us if if we're disciplined and we approach life with a a certain focus, and that is we can achieve a balance of doing the things that are of service to others, um, allowing ourselves to be vulnerable, but putting in some boundaries. And that's something that I think we've spent a decent amount of time on, where it's been mutual support in that regard of, hey, where are the limits? Right? I don't have to just open the floodgates and go, okay, I am gonna start the business, and what do I want it to be though? And really I think that's where um goals, you know, priorities and goals come in for what I do and what I help other people do is help them understand what is it that they really want. And we kind of were chatting about this a little bit earlier, is there are people that go, hey, I want to start a business, and I I just have always wanted to do this thing. Okay, that's great, but that's not really a goal. Um, where do you want to be in terms of what are your priorities in life and what do you want to receive in return for all that you're doing? Yeah, you want to make a thing, uh, you want to do a thing. Maybe it's music, maybe you want to achieve a certain thing through music. But what do you ultimately want? And what I think a lot of us want is a much more balanced lifestyle. It's not just the sake of, do I want to win a Grammy? I think that's an awesome thing to be able to do is demonstrate um exceptional work that brings that much joy to other people that everyone around goes, that guy is so great, we need to give him an award because that was magic. Amazing to achieve. But if we find ourselves chasing it just for the sake of having the thing, we lose the meaning of the thing. It's no, I worked really hard at this and I am really good at this, and as a result, I got recognized for it. Not I just always wanted to have that thing and and be able to say, I got that thing. So that's where you know, when we take it back to a business or something, it's well, I just always wanted to own a business so I could be my own boss. Well, that's cool. You are your own boss, and your boss told you that you're gonna be working seven days a week for the next three years. Is that what you really wanted to do?

SPEAKER_05 33:10

Did you talk to my boss? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

So it can be um it can be interesting as we dig into all of that whole topic, which you know, I don't know that we need to explore every nuanced aspect of it, but really what we found, I think, through our conversations was a lot of balancing priorities and understanding deeply, you know, me within myself, even through the conversations that we had of what was it that I really wanted. I wanted that purpose. I wanted to be able to help others with the skills that I had so that they could achieve their purpose and do it as best as possible.

SPEAKER_05 33:49

So well, I think I think part of like my addiction to not chasing a dream is I enjoy being productive and helpful. Like I think I'm addicted to that. Even even when it's even when it's a crap thing that happens, you were in the military. Yeah, I mean you were you lived that, but it's it you know what it's like when you sit there and you go through the the worst thing you've been through and you get out on the other side and you go, man, wasn't that bad? You know, that felt good. The the accomplishment, the camaraderie that you built. But I think that's what I enjoy. I enjoy being productive and feeling useful, you know, and I I think I'm always concerned that if I try something new, I'm not gonna be as productive, I may not be useful, and now I just wasted three years pursuing something when I should have just stayed where I was. Like that's where my brain works. But let me ask you this. Um when what is something people need to recognize in themselves or in their thought processes where they can say, hey, this is no longer just a hobby. This is something that I might be able to pursue to provide for my family. And when are people being naive and deceiving themselves and saying, hey, uh because everybody's gonna tell you, hey, you're you're doing really good, you know, you're you're my you're always gonna be mom's favorite, right? Mom, Mihal's amazing, you know. Uh there's your people around you and the man, you you whether it's music, you play really good, or you make really good cupcakes, you should sell these. You know, a lot of times I feel like people are giving praise and that's great. But at what point is like is that gonna translate into sales? Is that gonna translate into people hiring for gigs? You know, what do people need to be looking for when they're pursuing something more than just a hobby? And when does it need to just stay a hobby?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

That is a really good question, and it can be hard to answer because I think that uh there are a lot of people that start businesses and they think they want it to be really big, but really what they wanted to do is spend more time on a hobby. Um, and when does it become something that's worthwhile? And I think there's a few things that can be indicators, and it is those unbiased perspectives uh that we can find around us, and that is folks that aren't our direct friends and family, and we can share ideas with people that maybe have been successful in a way that is similar to ours, maybe not competitors, but people that they have certainly lived that journey already, and we can seek them out and find counsel in them. And you were talking about mentorship, and that's where I think it it becomes a mentor type of person, or it can be um in the type of work that I do, is it's somebody that goes, Hey, I can look at your plans and tell you whether you have enough here to be successful or not, most likely. There's no guarantees. Um, but the things that someone might look at is, is there a need for what it is that you want to do? Um, and maybe that need is unknown. Maybe it's something unique. It could be completely novel and something that we really don't know. And so that's where just a little bit of meaningful time spent gathering information about the world around us from those unbiased people, those people that would be our consumers. And so we go to where people might be. And I can give you um an example that maybe isn't a great one. But if I said um I think I can raise uh the best chickens, and people are just gonna love these eggs, they're gonna be unlike anything else uh that you could buy at you know the grocery store or something like that. All right, well, where do I go to get feedback on those eggs and whether they're worth anything? I might go to a farmer's market, and surely there are other people with eggs there, and so maybe I gotta undercut the price a little bit and sell mine for a little bit cheaper just to get those out and into people's hands. And I say, hey, what I'd really love from you is just some direct feedback. Here's a QR code, scan this. Please share with me what you thought about these eggs. And it's not even a marketing ploy or anything, it's just I'm going to get information from them, hopefully. If I can get two, three people to tell me what they thought, then now I know where I stand among those competitors, and now it's starting to inform how I will proceed with marketing. Where I go, okay, I think mine are the best, but I need to be able to tell people why. And they need to believe it. Not just, oh, these are you know the most delicious eggs. Okay, that's great. But how is it different? And they go, Well, here's what I loved. I love that I could tell your eggs were authentic because they were all different sizes and the carton, you had a cool logo on there, so that was fun too, right? It's it's it's catchy. Um, but they see that okay, there's something real about this. All right, where's the story behind it? And so now I begin telling my story about, hey, I just, you know, my passion is I want to make sure you get really great eggs. And so I start working on those people that are fans of really great eggs. Not the most complex um example, but it's something that I can do to get myself out there, and that's in the hobby phase. Then once I get enough feedback, I start focusing on can I recreate this at scale enough for it to become a business? And that's where I think a lot of people get tripped up is they go, Well, I'm really good at doing this thing, but they don't understand that once they start to make it and people really have a demand for what it is that they are producing, whether it's artistic things, um, whether it's a widget, you know, something that they're actually making physically to be able to sell, or music, um, is it something I can sustain and repeat? And once I start making it bigger and bigger, am I going to be able to do that? And what does that look like? And those are the the deeper business details that really will differentiate uh whether it's going to be able to be successful.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

And oh I'm sorry, I I just I want to say this before I forget, but you mentioned you know uh talking to a competitor, and it's it's funny because I feel like I feel like if you people are so worried about talking to their competition and maybe seeking device. But if you can do it in a in a genuine way and your competitor uh s can see that that you're coming from a good place, that is some of the probably best place to get advice. The buddy of mine that owns this place, he's a home builder, and he used to work for a uh a big outfit uh out east, and one day he kind of threw in his head he might want to do his own thing eventually. So he went and got his contractor license uh that gets registered with the state. And uh his his employer uh saw it and said, Hey, what are you doing? You know, I see you got your contractor license. You know, and and my buddy said, Well, you know, I'm not there yet, but at some point I'd love to go out on my own. And it was interesting because the guy told him, uh, well, I can't keep you here, I've got to let you go. You know? He said, But uh, here's some small houses that we're not gonna take on and you can have 'em. You know. Give him his first two or three houses to build. And and it's interesting because man, if you can if you a lot of people I think shy away from that conversation with a competitor.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

I do.

SPEAKER_05 41:33

But it's like if you can have the guts to do it and they're a genuine person, that's the best place to get some advice from.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

It really is. Those people are likely going to be the most honest with you uh because they've seen what it takes, and they they will recognize that glimmer in your eye when you're like, oh, and this is my thing, this is what I'm gonna do. And they're like, that's great, but it's not necessarily what you think it is, yeah. And here's why. And when they go, hey, good luck, um, but here's where all those landmines are that you're gonna step on along the way, uh, figuratively. And so they can give you valuable information, even if they're trying to discourage you. That's one of those pivotal moments where you go, you know what, that isn't daunting to me. I know it's gonna be a rough road, and all the things that you just shared just sound like the cost of doing business. I'm not worried about that now. The best place to be is to start solving those problems with real actions. So, how am I going to overcome that? And we've seen cool success stories that movies are made about, and it's like, you know, if you build it, they will come, you know, and and there's just this dream. And that's great. And there are people that make it big, but the vast majority of people that think like that are not the people that are going out and being successful. The people that are going out and being successful have a very strong drive and high work ethic. They tend to be detail oriented and they tend to be undaunted by those naysayers, those voices that are gonna tell them you can't do that. And if anything, they turn that into fuel because they go, Oh, watch me. All right, challenge accepted, it's go time. I am going to figure out how to do this better than you did it, because I can see you took this route, but I think there's a a different way, and then go ask them about it, like you said. And most people I think they they value, and whether they're for you or against you, they're gonna be very honest. And you know, there's there's folks around us all the time that are like, Oh, yeah, you're gonna do so great. And you're like, Man, I wish you had just told me this is a terrible idea.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

They're lucky they get they have a great um mentor, or not uh an employer or somebody who who supports them, right? You know, and uh I think that's important. I in every the perfect situation would. Be that one. I and not the how home building, but I always tell my guys, I mean, I I I always encourage them as you know the the things that we're doing here with the band, how to run the band. I want everybody to know how to do this so that when you have your own band, you know how to do it. And so this is I know it sounds like we're always in class, but I'm teaching you how to do this so that number one, I don't have to do it anymore, so I can just show up and be a diva and they can do, they can run the rehearsals, they can run the band. But when they have their own thing, they know how to do it, right? And I've always believed in that because I mean there's a saying in Spanish, and I've I've said it to you before, is that para todos sale el sol, you know, the sunrise is for everybody, you know, and you know, that guy that gave them three houses, you know, if we most people live in a scarcity mindset, right? Like, oh, you're gonna go into business, oh well if this is mine. I said, look, there's enough for everybody to go around. And if you're that good, they're not gonna want to come to me if you're that good. If you're that good, but if you're not, you're gonna be scared. But I mean, some of my best mentors told me, you know, like uh Steve Jordan, you know, one of the greatest corn players of all time, he says, he tells me you can't compete with me. And I was so cocky back then, and I was like, I'm not scared of you. He says, No, Sonny, I don't mean like that. I mean you do what you do and I do what I do. And he put me in my place. I was like, oh, okay. But you know, and that's what I mean. It's like everybody has their time to shine. It can't be sunny every day. Well, it can't be sunny every day. It's raining tonight, but but you know what I mean? It's it can't be about me every day. So everybody has their time to shine. You know, maybe there's uh, you know, I always say, today me, so you know, tomorrow you, right? So, and that's it's uh me and Nigel always talk about how iron sharpens iron, right? So it's always I think that the approach that that Nigel always has is that you always need somebody that's kind of over you watching, over overview, watching, you know, has the overview um viewpoint, right? To see what you're doing and how because it's always hard, like you're always on the grind. It's hard to see when you're in the grind what's really happening, and you have to you need somebody else's eyes to say, Oh, well, I see you're doing all these different things, but wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Time out, hold on. So I said all that to say that if they're lucky, but I I think Nigel's right on point with all everything he said. It's and you want me to buy, I want to buy eggs now. You are you selling eggs?

SPEAKER_00 46:30

I'm a little bit I got like a gazillion chickens now, but it's not Mexicans. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

You know what's funny is I got a buddy named Sergio, and Sergio's last name is Guerrero. And it's funny because he's got a son named Nigel, uh Byron, and Seth. And uh it's funny because I'm like, uh I'm like, how come you give him white names? You get a hardcore Mexican last name. Is it because by the time they realize they're Geneto, it's too late there together from the door.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Nigel Guerrero. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 47:03

But look let me ask you guys, and and somebody can lend to this too. We talked earlier about like somebody who makes cupcakes, somebody who's a musician, somebody who makes art. You know, it's this passion that like I really enjoy doing this thing. And this podcast, for example, I used to love doing it. Now I fucking hate it. I hate it because it turned into a job, right? You know, all of a sudden it was like, okay, well, I introduced video, now I've got to edit it, now I've got to get other software, I've got to figure out the software. It turned into something, but my OCD and my my uh uh my love for pain is like keep going. When's the next one? Let's do another one.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Well, that's why I told you, I said, well, you need to meet Nigel because Nigel used to be business develop business development, so he could help you bring in so that this could be what you do all the time.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

I love this.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Well, yeah, but you can you can you can uh set it up to where this like you're it'd be nice to be able to thing though. I mean that's it's what you do. That's true nine and five, right? Yeah, um, that's what I always say, but again, I'm I'm Nigel's biggest cheerleader, so I always that's why I said you need to meet Nigel because he can probably help you with those things. He literally did that. And that I literally said that. I believe it. It's like anything else, it's like in sports, right? I mean, the the quarterback has his own coach, the linemen have their own coach. In business, you need your own coach. Sure. So why would you want to do business without a coach? That's true. Why would you just want to go out there and well, let me see what I can do? Wouldn't you want to have somebody with experience? You know, somebody who has who's been lived in corporate America, who has that, you know, just broad overview of what has happened, what can happen, to kind of watch you for your blind spots. So again, like anything else you do, if you're in sports, you know. If you're in band, you have a band director. So you why would you want to do business without somebody kind of making sure, hey, hey, hey, get get back in get back in the lines?

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Yeah, and so that's important. No, I think it really is, and I think we all need that. I need that too. I I still have people that I go to, and and Sonny's one of them. So as much as there are things that I think I've been able to um add to Sonny's perspective through our conversations, he he's done the same for me in return in many ways, not with uh deliberate roles and responsibilities that we like lined out in our relationship. Okay, well, we'll focus on you for a little bit and then now we're gonna focus. No, it's just the natural flow of every time I help somebody learn a different way to look at what they're going through and to approach what it is that they're passionate about, I'm discovering things about myself too, because I'm learning, okay, this is a different situation that I've seen 57 times very similar, but I've never seen this specific one. Right. And so I gain one more bit of perspective myself. And there are thoughts and ideas that come to me from those conversations that I meant may never have been exposed to before. Through the course of gathering all of that information and all the different people that I work with, I go, wow, I am learning so much about what I can do in a better way because I I need to understand what I'm delivering has to be understandable in a way that makes sense to them. And it helps me differentiate, okay, I think this person is gonna respond better to these types of questions, and that makes me better at what I'm doing. Um, and there are times people share things with me and and I'm kind of speechless for a split second and I pause. So when is a good time to pause instead of just blurting something out? I take this seriously. Like this could be someone's livelihood at stake if I unintentionally guide them the wrong way because I'm too hasty.

SPEAKER_05 51:09

You know, maybe right or left d dictates whether they succeed or not, you know.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

So and yeah, that that can be daunting.

SPEAKER_05 51:26

But uh uh I'm sure you have plenty of experience in this area. Sure. But like when you've got somebody who's got a passion and they don't know the business part of the passion, right? Uh, you know, we talked about it earlier, and I think we've talked about it before. Like, there's so many people who focus on let's say uh there's a lot of people from back home that love Texas Country and they play guitar and they play music and they pursue that goal. And it's like that's where their 20 years of experience is is honing this craft. But at a certain point, he become the tour manager, the business manager, the guy who does the you know, Chuck Bresenho, the the guy I get his number, he's from George West. Chuck does everything, you know. Chuck does, yeah. He he and it's kind of like I feel like a lot of times people want to pursue a passion and they don't have the foresight to see everything that goes in that. All of a sudden, your thing that you love doing is now 10% of everything you're doing now. And it's like is there a time where you kind of have to talk people through that, explain that to them? And is there a time where you where you're have you ever had to be honest with somebody and say, hey, you're just gonna have you're just gonna have a good time playing on the back porch because you don't have the drive to do this other portion, you know, to pursue that the industry or I didn't start being really not honest until about maybe 20 minutes ago. Nah, what's the time? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

I think about I would say uh man, maybe six or seven years ago, right? Because we always trying to be politically correct, right? But now, and I've probably said this to Nigel before, I said, I want, if you want to be my friend, I don't want you to tell me what I want to hear. I want you to tell me what I need to hear. I don't need a fair weathered friend, I don't need any more of those. I have plenty of fair weather friends, and I was a fair weather friend for a long time. Oh, yeah, yeah, great. I mean, I now it's like, hey, if you want to be local, do this. But if you want to be taken serious, you need to do it this way. So I've had to have those conversations with those people. But I think I feel that they respect you more for being really honest because you're you're not telling them that they're not good, you're just telling them like if you want to be taken seriously, this is the road you have to take. This is how you conduct yourself, this is how you do business as a business professional in the music industry, right? Um, but we've I've had to have the other conversation where like, hey, what are you doing? Like, that's not what we do. We don't do that. Almost like talking to a child, right? Like, we don't touch the fire, we we don't, let's use it, let's use our inside voice. You know, we're not using outside voice here, let's use inside voice. And so we've had to have those conversations, but I feel like, you know, sometimes you do have to have that tough love, a little bit of tough. My mom was a tough, tough love mom, so I I respond better to that. I even think I mentioned it to you. Like, don't you, I need you to be really, really on am I messing up? Am I doing it right? Not everybody responds well to that. So yeah, we had those conversations, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:34

It's funny because Sonny was pissing me off uh a couple years ago. I redid the intro. It was like 25 seconds long. And I sent it to him, he was like, It's too long, make it shorter.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

And like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, he had he made a mistake to ask me, what do you think? Yeah, are you sure you want to know?

SPEAKER_05 54:51

Well, it's crazy because like I was doing it on an iPad, I didn't know what I was doing, I was just playing and things were working out. And I was like, Oh, it's 25 seconds, that's not bad. I sent it to Sonny, he's like too long. And so I 19 seconds, send it back to Sonny, it's too long. I think I got it down to nine. Uh, so I think it's at nine seconds now, which and and in hindsight I go, oh, that's pretty good. Like, I'll tell Sonny that that was the dumbest thing I ever did listening to him. But when Sonny's not around, I'm like, ah, that's pretty smart. Uh but it's funny because like he says that I've got about five guys that I don't ask them their opinion unless I really want it. And like there's things where like even after I got it down to nine seconds, I send it to the five guys, and they're the guys that are gonna tell me, dude, that sucks. You know, and they'll mean it, right? They're not gonna go, I like it. They're gonna go, uh it sounds weird, or it sounds like this, or it's too sh too long. And it's funny because like I don't go to them for a lot of things because I should I like I like being happy, right? Like doing on my parade. If I go to these five, I'm like, ah. But there's times where it's like I feel very thankful that I have them because when I gotta know, I'll ask one of these five, or I'll ask all five. You know, I'll ask them the same question, I don't ever put them in a group text because I don't want them because at some point they'll go, all right, let's screw with Gabe. You know, so you gotta keep them separate. But that is that's very important to have that honesty, it really is. And to have somebody to say, hey man, you're blowing it right now. You know, I think that's probably the best thing somebody can have in their corner is somebody's gonna tell you when you're blowing it.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

And and we all really need that, and that I I you said it much better than I did when you asked the question about how do how does somebody know whether this is always meant to be a hobby or it is actually a viable business opportunity, and it's that type of perspective from somebody that knows the difference between the two, probably because they've already done it and they're not afraid to tell you, and that's where going outside of you know, more of our day-to-day friendships and family and that sort of thing, because I, you know, we all we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but unintentionally, we set people up for failure because we're so worried about their feelings, and it's not that we have to be mean, and I grew up very similar. My mom, I I told you, you know, she raised me as a single mom and she was a cop, so she didn't mince words, she was oh, she loved me. I was her baby boy, her pride and joy. So I was mama's boy, no doubt. But she would snatch me up in a heartbeat and tell me when I was screwing up, and when in those moments, she did not mess around. She she and she'd use German words a lot of times. You know, we didn't speak German, but she spoke some German, and and for whatever reason, she just really liked it.

SPEAKER_05 57:49

And she'd be like, I got the same problem my parents in Spanish. Never thought of Spanish.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

I never do us. But she'd be like, Dunkoff, basically dumbass. I I knew that was and and I was like, wow, my mom's calling me a dumbass, but it it was great because even though she cared deeply about my feelings, she cared more about lying to me or misleading me and then watching me fail long term. She would rather have my feelings hurt short term, knowing that there was no irreparable damage done, because she realized that at some point in time I needed to have the right perspective and drive to truly be successful, and that that wouldn't come from constantly being told everything I did was amazing and it's great and you're you're doing all these wonderful things, and so she would snatch me up regularly, and like she was constantly telling me stuff I was screwing up. Love that lady, yeah, and and it was amazing, and God rest her soul. I mean, she she did such amazing things to and still daily she's with me in that way because I realize that you know it's not really my job to manage how you feel about the truth. If you ask my opinion about something, I'm not gonna be like, oh, you're so screwed up and you're an idiot and so on and so forth, but I'm gonna be like, no, I I don't think that that is the best approach for this. I think that that is going to fail, and here's why. And I think here are some things that can be done to avoid what what I think will happen if you go that route. I think you should consider taking you know one of these other approaches, which one matches the best, uh, rather than just following this because like I can tell you're enthusiastic about it and I don't want to hurt your feelings. Um, because I'd rather see you be successful and thank me for being raw and direct and to the point when you are successful and go, man, I can see it now. Thank God you didn't lie to me. I'm so grateful that you just told me the truth. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

You're welcome. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:00

Thank you, Zeddy. You know what's funny is that as I've gotten older, I've uh I've had to learn to adjust my myself. I've I have to learn to adjust my approach to people. And it and it's funny because like I've I've gotten I've got to the point where like I almost have to do it for myself because I grew up complete opposite somewhat. My parents, my mom was super loving, uh, my dad was the disciplinarian. Uh my siblings and friends crapped on each other all the time. All the time. And it was it was it was at a carinho, right? It was at a love, we loved each other and we we knew it, but they never allowed you to feel good about yourself. They would all we would always amplify the negative, right? The positive, we'd be like, eh, whatever. We always well, we'd always amplify amplifies the negative. So as I got older, it got to the point where if you failed, you caught hell, right? If you did well, nobody praised you. And so as I as I grew up, it was almost like I hated failing more than I enjoyed succeeding, you know, because I knew if I failed, I'm gonna catch it, I'm gonna catch hell from everybody. And as I've gotten older, you know, I have conversations with my siblings and other friends, and everybody changes, right? You get older, you change. And um but I find myself, and I had a conversation with a buddy of mine the other day, we love, especially in the Mexican culture, we love to criticize. We love it. But if to me, now that I've gotten older and I'm a little different, you know, if you're gonna criticize something or you're gonna try and redirect somebody, you've gotta follow up with a plan of how to do it better, or at least just some advice, right? And a lot of times when I talk to my younger nephews because they're not like we were, you know, they're they're they're soft, man. And so, but it's kind of like sometimes I'll talk to them, but they're very cerebral, they're very smart, they're a lot more intelligent than we were at their age. So a lot of times the approach is hey, I I know that you're looking at this problem this way, but what about if you look at it these other two ways? You know, what makes more sense to you? And a lot of times I approach it that way, even though I want them to go to plan C, I want them to, I want that thought process to happen. Because I feel like, especially in the younger people, that thought process isn't there. They're so used to being told, hey, drink this, eat this, go here, do that, and they're so involved with the technology that they're better at the technology, but they're not better at the problem solving, you know. Exactly. And so kind of getting into what we talked about earlier. I I feel like technology is coming in a lot more into people's uh work environment. You know, and so I had a conversation with a buddy of mine just earlier, and I was kind of like, thank God we'll be gone by the time this stuff happens. You know, but you know, even with somebody trying to pursue a goal, let's say there's a young person that says, I have an idea and I want to pursue this thing, I don't feel like there's any way to bulletproof those careers. And you almost have to stay fluid in your ideas and your pursuits, because I feel like technology when we were younger, you know, it was kind of like, hey, go into programming, learn how to work computers, computers of the future. And now I feel like the new technology that's coming down the road doesn't need us at all, you know? And it's kind of like if you want to be somebody that that pursues goals and starts careers or even becoming an artist, like AI makes music now, you know, or they make pictures or they make uh promotional ads. And it's like that's super scary to me because it's like, okay, well, what do you tell a younger person when they're fresh at a you know when we were younger in a small town, you go do what your dad did. You know, you go work at the refinery, you go work at the prison, uh, you become a musician, right? And it's like now I don't in the next generation, I don't see them having that option, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

That's interesting. Um those types of thoughts and questions really make my brain do somersaults. Sure. Um, because it's there's a lot of uncertainty, and you know, what I've seen happen over the course of life, and I think you guys have seen this too. Tell me what you think. But we've seen instances like this before, maybe not to the same degree or magnitude, right, as AI and um what we're seeing in the current day and age, but there's always been that thing of each generation, and oftentimes it's been musically related, right? Oh my gosh, the Beatles, they're gonna turn everybody into you know whatever people thought. And they just thought it was the end of civilization.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:56

Staring at guys' crutches on the Ricket albums.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

Exactly. I know who who would do such a thing. I knew, I knew it were gonna come up. But you know, it's um there's always been things like that that we fear the most because it's new, it's different, we haven't navigated it, we don't know what's on the other side, and so I think there's a natural fear of it. What I think happens is there's a balance point where it does sometimes go a little bit too far, and we've seen that in history where there are aspects of cultural change that that go a little bit too far. But what I think is always gonna happen is there's a natural balancing factor that comes about, and we we kind of pendulum swings both ways, and eventually we start to reach equilibrium. In some cases, uh it just goes away altogether very abruptly. And one of those things was we were terrified. You guys remember Y2K? Yeah, nobody even thinks about that. Twenty here we are 26 years later, and it's like, what was that? That.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:00

But I still have MREs from Y2K. I think that was bloated and swollen. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Some rotten lines of that. You bought a generator and everything, right? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:14

It won't turn on, but I got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

But we all feared that so bad. And that wasn't really a cultural thing, but it was computer related. And it was fear of what would happen if there were this universal widespread glitch. What will we do? Well, we'll probably figure it out. I mean, we're not just gonna sit here and oh, well, none of the computers work anymore. We probably would have figured something out, and because of that fear, some people did figure out, okay, here's how we go in and fix this. And yes, there were some mild outages and everything, but at the end of the day, we prevailed. And it was because of the humans that remained in the loop, not because a computer fixed it. With AI, we're in a different realm.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:55

And and robotics they go along with that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

Exactly. I we still got to do all those things.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:01

I LinkedIn stalked you, and I saw you had worked for Amazon. And I don't know if y'all saw it, but I saw a video the other day, and they had a robot who sorted packages for 250 hours non-stop. And you know, when you see that, and granted it was one robot trial or whatever, but you when you see that it's like, okay, well, why would I hire, you know, somebody, some old fat guy who has back pain and needs a lunch break, you know, or a woman who might end up having to go on uh maternity leave. You know, it's kind of like if if we can implement these and and money talks, right? It does. You know, when it's so crazy to me because I always hear about profit margins, and it's interesting because every year those profit margins have to go up for the stockholders. And it's like how can something increasingly uh increase as far as like percentage points without having a limit? And it's like, okay, well, what do you do then? Well then now we we go build these robots that that can work 250 hours nonstop and we don't have to pay anybody and they don't have to take a lunch break, and you know, so that kind of thing scares me. But I will say this, and and I I this is gonna go away at some point. I can f I can feel it. But as of right now, and every time, even during Y2K and some of the other things that have happened, I always tell myself there's always gonna be that guy with the denim Metallica jacket who smokes cigarettes behind the dumpster. You know, there's always gonna be that guy who wants to hear that combustion engine make noise and blow smoke and burn gasoline. And I think as long as we can maintain that as a population, as humanity, you're always gonna have somebody pushing back against the most efficient next thing. You know, and and and when you look at like electronic cars, how long they've been trying to come out with that, you know, Tesla's done a little bit better, but you still got that guy in the shop that wants to do a burnout, you know, he wants to smell that stuff. And so that kind of gives me a little bit of like, ah, maybe there's some hope. But man, I tell you what, maybe I'm just in a weird algorithm, but you see more and more of that. You know, I think UFC caught heat from people the other day because they used their first uh um promotional thing that was made with AI. And it was the first time they had used an artist. And uh, you know, the UFC, and you know what, it's it's coming, right? We're not stopping it, you know. Um I talked to a buddy the other day, we're talking about my father-in-law being older and needing help. And he said, dude, by the time we need that, there's gonna be robots in our house, you know, picking us up and helping make our bed. And and I sit there and go, it sounds you know, fantastical. But at the same time, it's like then you watch these videos and you go, Man, there's not much they can't do if they wanted to send AI in that direction.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:57

So it's a little bit scary to me, but no, I think it is too, and and although I think AI can do a lot of things, and I so I'm typically an early adopter with things, and by that I mean something new comes out. I'm fascinated by oh, what is this? I'm just curious naturally. When AI came out, I go, ooh, I I'm not sure I'm ready for this yet. I I want to see where it's going to go because I was concerned about um a variety of things that that aren't super material in the moment, but that I just had concerns about how it would be used and what it might be able to do once unleashed. And so I go, let me sit back. I'm going to wait and let all of this kind of run its course. Now I'm at a place where I feel comfortable dabbling a little bit, and the ways that I use it in very limited fashion is if I've got a large amount of information that I want to do a quick comparison where I'm not going to base a major decision off of the information it it shows me in comparison, but it's going to help me understand the totality of this way faster without doing all the research and reading book after book and doing a ton of you know hours of research on the internet or something. I am happy that it's going to give me that information neat and tidy in a very short period of time, maybe a minute, and it can tell me an answer. Now, what I always ask it to do though is show me what the references are. Show me the credible source that told it, you know, this is better than this, and here's why these facts. Where did those facts come from? Because I also know that it will hallucinate, it'll just draw information from social media and it takes a volume of commentary and believes it as truth. Well, when I see like Facebook, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, or something like that, I go, okay, I don't believe this is credible. This is what people are saying and believing about this, that doesn't mean it's fact. So if you can't prove to me uh that it's fact, then now I go, okay, there's not enough information here to go by, and I'm going to have to do this a little bit more manually or you know, old school. I think it can be helpful in some of those ways, and so I do use it in limited fashion, but I think most of us recognize AI generated videos for the most part, AI generated uh photographs, uh AI generated music. Hey, some of it's really good. I'm sorry. It is. No, it really is. Yeah, it is. Here's the thing that I think all of the things that AI does, though, they're always still missing, just that littlest human element. And I think we sense that. Whether whether we know it like, oh, it's that thing that is not quite human, we just know where there's just something about it, and we crave, we want it to be human created. And you know, we go back in history and especially with music. Um, there was that whole thing video killed the radio star. I forgot about that though. It did not.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:17

No, it didn't. No, just it was just a whole reality TV killed MTV, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:21

Oh, it did, right? Yeah, got God rest MTV, right? I remember the first day MTV was on, too, by the way, which that blows my mind that we've seen you know this whole uh life cycle occur. But I think when I reflect on music specifically, we saw that whole progression of video and how that came about and what became more important. We have seen significant changes in the music industry, and I can't remember uh when this came out, but it's been within the last 10 years, and it was basically a graph showing the progression of music and um the different sounds and how the um amplitude of the sounds has all started to narrow into the same box over time. So no matter what the genre is, no matter who the artist is, the the record labels that are doing all of the recording and marketing and selling of the music, they need it to fit within certain parameters. And so no matter whether it's um, you know, country or rap, it there's just a certain range that's pleasing enough to be on the radio that isn't wildly all over the place and hurting your ears, and you're having to adjust the volume where it's turned into just kind of this cookie cutter box over time, so that is kind of a negative. But we also look at what are kids doing these days? They got turntables. You go into Walmart and there's turntables again, and there's vinyl all over the place again.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:50

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

And we thought that was dead forever. But what's old is new again. And here's something like I couldn't wait till I got my first cassette player, man. That was like revolutionary because now I don't need you know this vinyl record that can get broken and warped and scratched and everything. And man, I got these cassettes, and I got my little walkman I can put in my pocket, but now here we are.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:11

Did you get the yellow one?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

Yes. You had to have the yellow one like that thing. That was baller.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:20

Oh, yeah. That was the oh man. Oh, I never got a yellow one. I really got a walkman, period. You were poor, so I was poor.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

I was bored. Well, I didn't tell you. I didn't get the 25 in my first house. No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:33

I'm joking, I was bored too. All my friends had it, I didn't have one. I had the black Panasonic knockoff.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:41

But yeah, man, so I think you know, when we take a look at AI, while it is scary, and and the things that scare me about it are those non-human elements, but I think when we look at what it would take for it to replace all of us in all ways, like who's going to manufacture the robot? Is it another robot that's manufacturing the robot? Maybe I and maybe it is.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:02

Well, you know, it's funny because I've I've had this conversation multiple times with people and I tell them, you know, we grew up without that stuff. We can call BS when we see it. But my my nephew, who's 12, you know, when he's 30, and all he's known is what AI has told him. Like he's not gonna be able to call BS when he hears it or sees it, you know, because he didn't have that ex life experience that we do before it came. So and I guess one thing that I that I when I think about AI, and AI is not terrible. I I would imagine like a small mom and pop organization or something, or uh uh even a new artist, right? They wanna they want to do some digital art, right? They just want to do it on their own because they're doing everything in their startup. Um maybe it helps the uh cupcake lady, you know, or or the the the chicken egg seller scale a little bit. But I I guess at a certain point this is where me and and love with nostalgia is as a business owner, I would hope there'd be a point where you can say recognize when AI is no longer allowing your product to be authentic. And now it's taking you out of what you're creating. And I think for me, we talked about the ice cream place over here, like when it's authentic, when it's rare, when it's when it's something that you can't get everywhere, like that's value to me. You know, that's high-end to me. You know, when you can get something that's mass-produced, I don't want it anymore. You know, I want the thing that somebody spent time making or baking or or you know building or writing a song, or you know, this song has to do with you know growing up in a small town and with my parents, and these are our experiences. And I can and Sonny can put it in a way that it it it resonates with everybody who has that similar life, you know, and it's like that's what I hope we don't lose with AI. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:59

No, I'm I'm with you, man. And I I think there's always gonna be a demand for folks like Sonny.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:06

Yeah, I agree. I don't I don't think it goes, it goes, it's like it's it's goes in cycles. Like, you know, who would vinyl, who who would ever thought that vinyl would come back? And I forgot what year. Not too many years ago, vinyl outsold streaming or CD cells. Yes, yes. So it's a big movement. Um you know, vinyl is a big thing. Uh, even now as an artist, like it's kind of cool that you can do graphics with AI, but I can see an AI graphic when I see it. I'm like, oh, it kind of all looks the same.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:39

When you see the sixth finger, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

I mean, I can just tell you. I can just tell when I can see AI, I can just tell. I'm like, oh, that's not authentic. Because they all all they all start looking the same, yeah, or all the songs kind of sound the same. It's kind of the same AI voice. And so people will start like, uh, it's it's too much. Like it was cool, it was novelty, it was too much. And I think that um once you learn how to prompt AI the right way, like uh learning a new prompt, like like uh we call her Chatty G. Like Chatty G. My my my son calls her chatty G. Chatty G agrees with you most of the time. She's very biased or he or whatever, but you have to prompt it to be you have to prompt it, say, be honest with me, be you know, don't don't agree with everything I say, challenge me, challenge my thoughts. So it's all about you know learning prompting it the correct way. But everybody is really right now, I'm they're saying people that don't adopt AI are gonna fall behind.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:38

That's true, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:39

If you don't adopt it, because they're still gonna need people to prompt it either way. Like AI can't prompt itself unless you start getting into workflows. But I don't even know you start getting into workflows, like I have a friend who designs workflows, but I think you still need somebody to prompt the workflow to get started.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:56

So there's there's always gonna be a need for that human touch, that human element. I don't think that it's gonna be completely gone, go away, honestly.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:06

All I know is when Tesla comes out with a robot that dry humps an accordion, it's a rap. I don't even know what kind of world that's. I've got an event coming up, right? Or was that an old one that I saw on Facebook?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:28

No, no. So there's some cool stuff coming up. Um, I do a lot of work in the community because really my passion is is helping people. Um, so it's not so much about uh the money that is made, it's more about the outcome. And I think we were talking about that. Money is it is, and I don't work for free, right? There are volunteer things. Somebody's gonna walk into the nightplay, thank you, money, you know, volunteer things that I love doing because I think there's a time and a place to give freely, but there's also a time where um we all deserve to be paid for those things of value that we can deliver. Um, so I've got a workshop coming up, it's a a cohort, it'll last several months, and it's um in partnership with a nonprofit over in Bernie called Das Greenhouse, and it's called the the cultivating success.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:17

That means the greenhouse.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:19

Yeah. Since you don't know German in Deutsch.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:21

Oh, is that what it means?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:22

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:24

Okay, he lives in New Brunswick. Sorry. Sorry. Um but yeah, it's it's really cool, and and that's gonna kick off next week. And so we just finished uh receiving all the applications, and we had some great funders uh that are sponsoring this so that we can make it um deliverable to businesses that may not be in a place where they could afford what my services might go for one-on-one and for that length of time, but hopefully they'll be able to see you know some very meaningful change. So that cultivating success workshop kicks off on uh June 1st. And then uh I've also got a smaller workshop that I'm partnering with some folks that do other types of things in business, things like benefits packages, um financial officer bookkeeping type of roles, and really it's meant to educate people in business uh about how they need to start with their exit strategy in mind. Uh you you always need to look at where you want to end up so that you can build everything along the way.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:27

So you know what's funny is you say that uh, you know, and I don't want to put people's information out there, so it'll be kind of broad, but I've talked to friends of mine who've talked about the exit. And it's not as easy as you think when it's a very successful business. You know, and in in one case, the exit is difficult for them because the company's valued at several million dollars, right? And it's like, well you don't want to lose that value of the company, but at the same time, you don't want to put your children in debt from them buying it from you. You know, and so retirement hasn't happened yet. You know, it's taken longer than what they expected. And it's it's so crazy because like we're so focused on uh the future and the now and and maybe the past, but we don't think about the end, right? And and I mean I think we're all guilty of that. We you know, you're so focused on you know next month or this month or this quarter, and then all of a sudden you get to the end and it's like if you were successful now what? You know it's so funny to think about that, think about it that way. It's like, what's my exit plan? You know, and what what how can I maintain staff or how can I keep because that's what you're doing, right? When you're successful, you're providing a living for other people. A lot of people relying on you, they rely on you, and you can't just drop it or you can't devalue it, but what do you do with it? So that's that's uh interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:02

Yeah, it's gonna be really neat, and I'm grateful to have so many cool people that I get to stand alongside and share value in the community through those efforts. And you know, some folks in particular that I'd like to mention because although um we started doing business together through my company, and then I started working for them full time in addition to the work that I continue to do through my company because they realize how important that work is, um, the great folks at Health 210. Um, so there's a group of doctors, privately owned primary care practice, and really they were my first major client. And then they said, Hey, this is going so well, we want you to help lead, you know, this longer-term plan that we have in mind for growth of our business. And so we went from doing work together on limited projects to uh they said, Hey, we we really want this full-time, keep doing all that other stuff too. Um, but it resulted in this really interesting mix of me going to work for someone full-time employed again while maintaining this business and all of these additional projects um in balance, you know, and so that is something that just demonstrates uh how universal all of this approach can be. Everything from the Marine Corps to work in the government, Amazon, nonprofit, and now something I've never been involved with in my entire life. I have no healthcare background. Um, and the things that I've been doing in partnership with um those great doctors has been amazing. So um I'm grateful that not only did they believe in me and trust me with their business um helping grow it, but also trusted me that I could maintain these other projects and still continue to deliver that that same benefit to others in limited fashion. So uh those that are interested in learning more about that can absolutely find me on LinkedIn, as you mentioned, Gabe. And that that's really probably the best place because uh I've been kind of a black sheep in the sense that I don't have a website. Um and people are like, Man, how do you have a business without a website? And I'm like, that's just one of those many things that I didn't follow the standard route, and I have a lot of reasons for that, but yet here I am um succeeding quite nicely in in what I set out to do, which was truly deliver that value with certain goals and objectives in mind. So really grateful that I got to be here and and make yet another new friend and uh spend time with uh a great friend and well, so much for being retired, sir. I know so much for being retired. That was a funny joke that I made when I said I was gonna be retired.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:53

I know that was funny retired, what I tell you, I tell you what, I hope you're extremely successful because I think a byproduct of everything that you're doing is improving the community and and the places around you. You know, when people can pursue their goal and be successful because they have the right mentorship and guidance, like it only benefits the community, you know. And at the end of the day, that's that's a huge payoff, man. So I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:20

Well, it's the best purpose for me, that's for sure. And I'm grateful to to be blessed to be able to do it every day. And man, thank you for having us big guests. And I appreciate turning in the next time. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:32

Anytime. I'm I'm just waiting for my check to come in from that all that great business he's doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:38

The royalty is I forgot to put it on.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:46

I did. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:48

I'm glad to see he's doing great. And it's just this is just the beginning. Uh the good thing is, like he said, he was he's retired and and he can do it at his own pace, right? There's no sense of urgency. I think that's the probably the best thing. It is that there's not like you don't have to have that, like, oh, I gotta get a client because I need to make this much money. You know, he's selling his eggs, and that's good enough. That's good enough. Selling eggs. And and so um that's great to see. I I'm just I'm excited. I'm excited for an Iigel because I just see so much before, you know. I just I just have these visions. I don't know how to explain it. It's just this sense I have always with people. Um as you were talking earlier, I don't know why I saw you on TV. All of a sudden I saw you on TV somewhere. I don't know why. Was I alive or dead? You were alive. You were alive. You were still alive. That is a good thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:38

I don't know if it was an AIU or UU. It was probably a UU because I'm trying to do something different. So we'll see, we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:45

But I can't wait to hear about this. It probably is. More for next time. So you have to schedule a follow-up now. I gotta know. We're gonna be interviewing you about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:55

More than likely, it'll be also be doing what I'm doing today to an extra now. So awesome. Fellas, I appreciate you. Nigel, thank you so much. Yes, sir. Sunday. I always appreciate you coming out, man. It's always fun. Thank you, fellas. Yeah, thank you. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:12

Thanks for listening to the Gabe Molina podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:21

Yo, Barry.