93: Jody Carrington - Feeling Seen

How can we re-calibrate our connection with others? What role do relationships play in our well-being—and our resilience?

Dr. Jody Carrington’s reverence for connection is deeply embedded in her work as a psychologist, best-selling author, and public speaker.

In her book, Feeling Seen: Reconnecting in a Disconnected World, Dr. Jody suggests we’ve never been as disconnected as we are now. But when we create connection, we re-discover joy.

Dr. Jody has a strong affinity for helping teams and organizations overcome their most complex, human-centred problems.
Her glowing energy and incomparable ability to connect with audiences result in compelling keynotes, life-changing workshops, and inspiring podcast episodes like this one!
Website: https://www.drjodycarrington.com/

Transcript

Cindy Thompson - A Resilience Project Podcast

Building Resilience Among Humans One Conversation At A Time

EP93: Dr. Jody Carrington – Feeling Seen

Cindy Thompson: Hello, friends. I am Cindy Thompson, and this is ‘A Resilience Project.’ This is a space where stories are shared and possibilities are discovered. I invite you to partner with me in cultivating resilience among humans, one conversation at a time.

Cindy Thompson: When I think about one of the greatest gifts we can share as a human race, it is connection. 

What does it take to cultivate and lean into more meaningful conversations?  To understand one another on a deeper level, to truly see others and be seen?  

 Building community and supporting one another is one of the foundational resilience practices that is an essential building block. Even though we are wired for connection, complex psychological elements like trauma can get in the way of cultivating meaningful relationships. How can we re-calibrate or change our course, lean into re-connecting and how does it play a role in our well-being?

 My guest Dr. Jody Carrington psychologist and author of Feeling Seen: Reconnecting in a Disconnected World, suggests we have never been as disconnected as we are now.  

 In this conversation Jody helps us build a bridge back to one another. This is why I wanted to have her back on the podcast as we add community and re-connection to our resilience practice.

 In service to your well-being, my friends, this episode is meant to challenge, invite, and encourage deeper, richer and more rewarding relationships not just with your closest family and friends but with humans.

 Let’s dive in…here is my conversation with Jody.

Cindy Thompson:Jody, I am so honored that you'd take some time out to be on "A Resilience Project" with me here today.

Jody Carrington: Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Seriously, Alberta Dei. This is what we're doing today.

Cindy Thompson: It's so good to revisit another conversation with you. I know I really enjoyed it when we had an episode a couple years ago. I bought your recent book and I've been diving into it and really appreciating so many gems. I thought I need to have you back on so that we can talk a little deeper into these pieces and the importance of reconnecting post pandemic. 

Jody Carrington: I think that's the issue right now is that when we've got nothing left in the tank collectively, how do we do that piece of being brave enough to look up, to see, to get back in the game when we're all like, "You know what? I would really like somebody else to do that from you, okay?"

 It's a universal response to so many things. Let's name it. Then, what do we gotta work with here? What possibly can we do to be able to navigate this? We just got back from New York yesterday so we're smack in the middle of the book tour for "Feeling Seen." So it's been great.

Cindy Thompson: I feel like this is so timely in that not just for us to be seen and to also see others. I feel like this is really walking us through one of the most important elements of being human, of community and about connection.

We all need that. Even those that might say they don't need people. We all need people somewhere. At least one person.

Jody Carrington: We are neurophysiologically wired for connection, and if you disconnect from an infant, they die. The more you've been hurt, the more you've been traumatized, the more you come into a story in this world of "people aren't safe." It introduces this really interesting conundrum. We're neurophysiologically wired for connection and it tends to be the things that hurt us the most are other people and those are the very things that are required to heal. 

It's such a great process for me as a psychologist, and I know you, when we talk about practicing, it's this place of how do we get to reconnect, almost reconvince, people that despite the fact that some humans with a heartbeat have crushed their souls and created tons of layers, it's actually in the relationship with those very same people with heartbeats, sometimes different people, that it's safe enough to bear it again. I think it is such a privilege to be able to do that with people. I think it's such an honor. I think it's holy work. I think that it can be done in a second, a reparative experience, or it can be done in a therapist's office over years and years and years. What I think we underestimate our power above the time is that truly our job on this planet as human beings.

 As Ram Das talks about, we're just walking each other home. Sometimes it's your role as a therapist, but most of the healing happens in everyday relationships. How you show up for your babies, your grandbabies, your best friend's kids, the kid at the 7-Eleven, how you wave at that senior, or you stop and kneel down and ask somebody who is having security issues with their housing, what their name is. The ones who need it the most are the hardest to give it to. It doesn't mean you tolerate bullshit, but the ones who need it the most are the hardest to give it to.

Cindy Thompson: Hmm. I really like that because I was actually thinking recently, we say kids, the kids that seem to deserve it the least, need it the most. And yet I think about that as adults. 

Jody Carrington: Here's the issue. We play by a, set of rules, I think, that were established for a world that no longer exists. It is this idea that you have to earn my respect. You have to show me you deserve it. You have to demonstrate, first of all, that I will give you my trust in my heart if you first of all do that for me.

 The hard part about it is those rules were established when we had much more physical connection to each other. One of the biggest switches in the last two generations is we've never been this physically disconnected from each other. The very thing that we need to survive, we have had the luxury, the connection, the ability to expand our houses and communicate across provinces and countries and around the globe and into space and all of these things that make the world beautiful. But it really puts into question the necessity to stay connected. This is what gets me every time as a psychologist, despite the fact that it is what the healthiest amongst us are able to do. The hardest thing you will do, our great grandparents and us and our children will look into the eyes of the people you love.

Cindy Thompson: Hmm.

Jody Carrington: Ah, the thing that I know people need is to be seen. The thing that I know that allows you to see another is to be brave enough to allow another to see you. I know that if you are capable or if somebody assists you in repairing relationships or walks you home or does all of those things, provide you with that corrective experience, it's gonna require some sort of connection, ideally a face-to-face connection.

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm.

Jody Carrington: Never had this many exit ramps. Phones and TVs, and if we wanted to do a podcast even five years ago, it would've been necessary to get me to your podcast studio. That's different now. Which is great 'cuz we can do this, but the conversation that we would've been able to have, had your husband and I navigated the EarPods together, had I felt your space and we were in Parksville together and you were like, "Oh my gosh."

 We will have a different level of neurophysiological changes, our cortisol would be lower, our oxytocin. Our dopamine might be higher. All of those kind of things might allow us to be a little bit more vulnerable in this place that you can't replicate online.

Cindy Thompson: I wonder if you've been looking into that to see how our, neurophysiology is changing because of our disconnect around technology. I get it, like this is not a shame or a criticism, but little babies in the stroller waiting and mom's on the phone. Whereas would moms have been making more eye contact? Would they been talking to their child? I'm just curious whether this is something you see as a concern.

Jody Carrington: Oh yeah, the data around this is really amazing. The retrospective data would suggest that our great-grandparents looked at their children 72% more of the time than we look at our babies. If you think about, so what is the cost to that? There's obviously some buffer in the place that you get more opportunities and exposure and access to things. Your physical or even needs during most moments are met. But the payoff is not nearly equal in terms of the delight, the light up, the emotional connection that it takes to show kids that they matter. Because you can't tell them how to do stuff. You have to show them.

 This process of emotional regulation, which is, I think, the most fundamental, important skill that we will give to the next generation is how to stay calm in times of distress. When you lose your frigging mind, we don't like it. As a culture, as a society, we like it best when people can use their words, express their feelings, communicate well, do those things. And if you can do that, somebody has shown you, not told you. I think the last time we talked never in the history of telling somebody to, "Calm down! Use your words! Relax, Jackie!" 

 We don't get to that place when, violence is an issue or safety is an issue, yes. All bets are off. Then I do have to tell you what I need from you. But 98% of the time, if I want to teach you how to do that, if I want you to get better at that, I actually have to demonstrate it first.

"Okay? Okay. Okay. Look at me. It's okay. We're gonna be okay. Look at my eyes. Tell me more. What's the hardest part? I'm not going anywhere. We're gonna get through this together." That process of emotional regulation of security means from a neurophysiological perspective, I am regulating your prefrontal cortex, and that is where you have access to everything you've ever learned. 

If I shout at you or threaten you, or tell you to get back in line, I will slam your prefrontal cortex back on and I will not teach you how to do it. In fact, the only thing I'm teaching you is how to be like that to your people.

Cindy Thompson: Hmm. There was so many great pieces in the book that referred to how to calm ourselves, get out of the fight or flight freeze mode and back into our prefrontal cortex. I love your visual. Would you tell the listeners about that?

Jody Carrington: Yeah, that's Dan Siegel's work. It took me over 13 years to get a PhD and I learned a lot about behavioral changes. Lots of CBT, you change your thought, you change your behavior. Here's the interesting thing about it, is that if there is no visceral change, if there's no emotional change, you actually don't make long-term changes.

 "The Body Keeps the Score" is Bessel van der Kolk's work on trauma, which I really, really love. And Gabor Mate's work. 

Cindy Thompson: Yes.

Jody Carrington: All about this idea that you can process from a very cortical level about the events that have happened to you. But unless you process that from an emotional level, which is much deeper inside of the brain, it becomes very difficult to rewire that in any other way.

 So, topically it's like putting on a bandaid and it can feel momentarily good, or you can just limp along. But if you truly want to clean out a wound, if you truly want to renegotiate the way that you experience the world, it's gonna require an understanding that the most primitive parts of the brain are often the ones that get the most damaged.

 My first 10 years of my real life job was at the Alberta Children's Hospital on a locked psychiatric inpatient unit for kids. Some of the most dysregulated kids would go there because nobody else knew what to do with them. They would get admitted because schools and communities and family systems and foster care programs were like, we don't know what's going on with this child. Most of the time what happens is that when you bring a baby home from the hospital, the only thing they have on board to communicate their needs is fight, flight, or freeze.

 When Dan Siegel explained this from a neurophysiological perspective, he said, if you put your palm out in front of you, tuck your thumb on the inside of your palm and wrap your fingers around your thumb, so you make this fist with your thumb tucked underneath your fingers.

That is a hand model, an anatomical model of your brain. And it's about the same size of the brain that is sitting in your skull in this moment. If you hold it up beside your ear, you can imagine that your arm represents your spinal cord, your wrist represents your brainstem.

Dan was so brilliant because okay, flip your fingers up. Still keep thumb tucked on the inside. Your thumb represents your limbic system, the most primitive part of your brain. As humans, we develop from the inside out.

Okay. This is the most primitive part, and I say to my husband, he feeds cows for a living, even cows have this, mammals have fight, flight, or freeze. That's how they communicate. So that is the most primitive part of our brain.

 What separates humans from most other mammals is we have the prefrontal cortex that wraps around your thumb. So if you can imagine now wrapping those fingers back around your thumb, back to that sort of whole brain idea. Your fingers represent everything you've ever learned in your life. So how to speak a language, your first phone number, the pin number to your bank card, how to be kind, how to judge a heifer, how to bait a hook. Anything you've ever learned in your life lives there, including empathy and kindness and compassion. Dan said, I want you to think about this as a lid. When that lid is on, you have access to all those things.

Now, it's necessary for our brains when we get scared or frightened or threatened to flip that out of the way and get back to fight, flight, or freeze. Because if a bear jumps outta the bushes in Parksville, I don't want you to be like, shoot, I wonder if that's a bear. I want you to do this automatically. That's the protective part of our brains right? Is we flip. Now when you bring a baby home from the hospital, they flip their lids because there's nothing up there that can help them communicate yet. So they flip and they cry, or they scream. So we unpack that. We change their bum, we take them for a walk, we feed them. Every time we put that prefrontal cortex back on, we're creating neural pathways that as they grow, they will have access to them. If you're surrounded by a village of people that can put that lid on relatively consistency, even 30% of the time, you start to create neural pathways that then that baby has access to when they go for their first sleepover, so they can stay longer periods of time away from primary caregivers.

Then when they get into kindergarten, they can last some of the day. Hopefully once they get older they hold it together and then they have the capacity to give it away. If you've been surrounded by people with multiple generations of abuse, neglect, and trauma, people who are drunk, high, absent, unable to stay regulated, you only give away emotional dysregulation to your children. When their lid gets slammed on again and again: " Shut up, you're an idiot. I don't wanna talk to you." That's what they have to give away cuz you can only give away what you've received.

 You also cannot learn when you're in a state of lid flip. It's neurobiologically impossible. If I'm gonna communicate with my partner, if I'm going to indicate something that I desire for my kids, if I'm gonna give a consequence, I tend to wanna do that when their lid is flipped and when I flip my lid. 

 I often say this about my first book "Kids These Days." It's a bestselling book on parenting and teaching. And if you watch me with my own personal children you wouldn't buy the book. Cause I wrote that when I was regulated.

Cindy Thompson: Take my advice. I'm not using it.

Jody Carrington: Yes. That's true for most of us. We're usually better with other people's children. We're usually more enamored with other people's partners because we tend to be regulated in those exchanges with other people's partners. "Oh, he's so nice. Why don't you be more like that?" We tend to not see that in our situations. And the more comfortable we get with people, the more we are supposed to flip our lid because the chaos is necessary to learn the calm.

You can't tell anybody they matter. You have to show them. When couples say, "We never fight," and fighting doesn't mean that we're having a knock down juni mode. There is a place where we have to then at least have the skill and continue to practice being safe enough to flip our lids in the presence of another human being and understand that at least relatively some of the time, they will have the capacity to walk us home. To regulate us. Because that's why we stay in love, is that we stay connected enough to help co-regulate with each other.

Cindy Thompson: Hmm. So good. I feel like that piece is so important and I made a little note for myself. We're preparing the soil for connection. When we are regulated, when we have our limbic system in place, our prefrontal cortex, we're hanging out there, we are more likely to be able to connect with people in a meaningful way.

 Now we've prepared the soil. We've talked about flipping our lids and understanding that more. Can we talk then about why it's so important to connect, and also sitting in our emotions? We do have a lot of emotions that we're experiencing and I really wanted to draw that out because I think today we are really uncomfortable with all kinds of emotions and we wanna escape that, run in the other direction. I really loved your encouragement to really sit in and understand those emotions.

Jody Carrington: I think this is the thing that I think about the most these days, is that no emotions are bad emotions, and Schwartz just wrote a phenomenal book around internal family systems that happen in our own bodies. It's called "No Bad Parts." And it was the first time that I really thought about this process of, we put a high emphasis for our children, for our partners, for our employees to be happy. And we are often putting so much effort on the good ones. Here's the issue, emotions will not kill you. Like anxiety, depression, humiliation, rejection. They're just emotions. But not talking about them might.

Cindy Thompson: Mm.

Jody Carrington: If you don't have an emotional language, if they stay stuck, those hard emotions in here, then they keep your lid flipped and you feel those a lot more than you allow yourself the most vulnerable emotion on the planet. You have to be emotionally regulated to feel joy. Neurobiologically impossible to feel joy when you're emotionally dysregulated. Which is why joy is one of my first indicators in any organization that is doing well. If I come into your staff room and I hear laughter, if you take me on a school tour and I see people engaging with the principal, the students laughing with each other, that there's safety. When somebody can say, " Ah, no, we do not speak to girls like that." When we engage in that process, it's really fascinating because there is emotions that we desire, but you have to feel them all in order to get through them. 

And women, historically and currently, have a much greater expanse, generally speaking, of emotional language than men, because historically we've put a high standard of practice on, " Boys don't cry. You're tough. We don't talk about it. Move on." We fill that in with all of the words that we call people who we think are weak, but they're always condescending terms. 

We also don't like it when girls get overly dramatic or emotional because we don't want the messiness of it. The truth is, the messiness of it is where the healing is. When you name it, you tame it.

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm.

Jody Carrington: Brene Brown's podcast is called "Unlocking Us," and it's really brilliant because it really is how do we get back to that places of unlocking and opening that armor around this soul that's been necessary to get there because of our experiences or our ancestors' experiences or the things we've either committed against another or have been committed against ourselves, or we've experienced that situation, really understandably, allows us to have to be defensive in those moments, or not process. 

I think about this as first responders all the time. When you go to a scene where there's multiple bodies or you have to be on high alert for your own physical safety. If you have nowhere to put that again and again and again, you get stuck. Which is why PTSD is so common in our first responder world. 

Why are we not building in experiences to integrate those emotions? Why aren't we surrounding them with people who have emotional languages? In any of those very patriarchal, misogynistic cultures, there's no place to put them. Unless you have a really good standout or you have a really good victim services advocate, who tends to be a woman who has snacks and they can just drop in and just talk.

Cindy Thompson: As you're saying that, Jody, I feel like we're doing boys a disservice as they grow up and they're going to get into a relationship. We want them to be equipped with all those emotions, with the language to name those emotions. Because if girls have that advantage, I'm gonna call it an advantage, that we get to express all those feelings, we have permission. Men are really uncomfortable in that because they haven't had that practice with it. And if we can equip both genders, all genders, all across the board, equip people with that ability to have that language, then we are going to be able to connect in a more real way. 

Jody Carrington: Here's what's really interesting to me. This one statistic brings it all home. Highest rate of suicide in our country is middle-aged men. 

Cindy Thompson: Right. Scary.

Jody Carrington: We think we're getting better with our boys, but we're not. I coach minor hockey in this town and I hear this probably like once a week. "Boys don't cry. Toughen up." If you and I walked into a toy store today, there's a very clear delineation. Gender is very divisive still, despite the fact that it's a spectrum. There's a very clear delineation between the pink side where the vaginas go and the blue side where the penis es go. And what is in the blue side?

Cindy Thompson: The guns.

Jody Carrington: Wrestlers and I will shoot you! Giant blankets, and the food, and the nurturing, and the dolls, and the place to be able to put emotions. People say to me we tend to have a penchant or a desire to play with certain toys. I know I have boy/girl twins. They came out of the same place on the same day and they are two very, very different kids.

 My son would be very traditional. He loves hockey and sports and he's got wrestlers in the bathtub. And my daughter is doing tik toks and is very fancy. She wants her hair curled this morning. Both of them have the exact same emotional makeup.

Cindy Thompson: Yes. 

Jody Carrington: if one has many more opportunities to put it somewhere and one doesn't, the question then becomes, how does that affect them when they get into adolescence?

 Typically what happens is we see our girls and we don't like it. Cause we don't like a lot of emotion. They're so dramatic. They're cutting and showing their boobs and trying to decide who they're gonna make out with. The boys are easy. They don't say anything. And then those same humans are the ones who are killing themselves at higher rates when they enter into adulthood.

 The question is, when you have the ability to integrate a much more emotional language into your conversations, into the sporting activities, or the separate table discussions or the, things that give our children an opportunity to tell us what they're feeling. Bedtime is a great opportunity.

Instead of trying to fix kids when they get really frustrated, saying things like, tell me more. What's the hardest part? And not what do you think about it, but what do you feel about it? Really getting kids in particular to trust that intuition.

"You wanna go to the party tonight?" "Yeah, I really do." "Well, where do you feel it? Does it feel like it's gonna be a safe place to go tonight?" "This just doesn't feel right. There's something about tonight that doesn't feel right to me, mom." "Okay, let's trust it." Really being able to navigate anxiety versus true intuition is always the funnest part, but it takes practice.

Cindy Thompson: Again, this is all preparing us to connect in a more meaningful way. When we understand ourselves and we have that insight, then yes, we can then hold space for someone else. Can we talk about empathy? Can we talk about that being a nice conduit to actually having a meaningful connection?

Jody Carrington: I would say that the two prerequisites for seeing in another are emotional regulation and empathy. Neither of which you're born with. Somebody has to show you how to do them. So now we've talked about emotional regulation, keeping that lid on, and then the idea around empathy. You can't give away unless you've received it. And empathy, truly, is the temporary suspension of judgment as you try to understand deeply, truly, what it might be like to be in another's position.

It doesn't mean, it's not projection. You don't have to be there. As a psychologist, I don't have to have schizophrenia to have empathy for you. I don't have to have experienced cancer to have empathy for you. I don't have to have buried one of my children to truly be empathic. It's not about experiencing the same thing. It's also not sympathy. Sympathy is so much easier than empathy. It's so condescending compared to empathy. Empathy is a lot of work. It's hard on your heart and it is brave because you have to be emotionally regulated to do it your own self, and you have to wonder what it must be like.

 " I can't imagine what it must be like to experience a cultural genocide." "I can't imagine what it must be like to live today and have no running water or have to be relegated to a reserve." " I can't imagine..." Yes, you can. You just don't want to, which is the definition of privilege. 

We can all imagine those things and that's part of it. You need a curiosity and imagination and empathy to really feel that. And we often don't want to. Can you imagine what it must have been like to have somebody apprehend your children because of the color of your skin?

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm.

Jody Carrington: "No, I can't." Yeah, you can. Yeah, you can, you just don't want to. The experience of empathy is really an emotional journey. You have to be brave enough to do it with another. 

The other thing that I really love about Brene's work around empathy is that it's not a giving of your soul. I think some of the best psychologists or police officers or physicians have to do this well and have to do this multiple times a day. To truly understand, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna just be you in that moment. It's that I just wanna feel what it might be like to be you so that I can truly understand and see your perspective, and then with practice, I will step back into my own shoes and give you my opinion, my advice, my insight, my offering, or just my support. Which is often the only thing we can do. In this very sort of scary place of trauma or of death, there's nothing I'm gonna say that can bring back your baby, but if I meet you there, we're just walking each other home.

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm. 

Jody Carrington: That's where the healing is.

 Cindy Thompson: I have been thinking a lot about this in terms of work and leadership organizations and how there is much more awareness, not that we're there yet, around empathy and really taking the time to hold space for what people are going through. Not that, you're gonna take up a whole day, but just even a few minutes. Or carving out space to check in on people can make a big difference in people feeling seen at work. 

Jody Carrington: We're just creating this course. It's called "Lead Like a Human," and it's really just this concept of, we want so much more productivity out of our people and we wanna get back to normal, particularly in this post pandemic phase. I think what we lose in the rush of things is we're gonna get back to policies and procedures and demanding.

What we miss all the time is that it's not that you let everything go. There's certainly an intolerance that is necessary when you wanna get productive employees. They need to know where the limits are. But this idea of really being able to acknowledge each other is where we get the most direct and fastest access to the most creative, innovative parts of our people.

One of my favorite hockey coaches said this, "You should see how fast I can get a kid to skate when I know the name of the dog."

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm. 

Jody Carrington: I really love that. We will never automate relationship. For me, feeling seen, it's timeless because there's never gonna be another suggestion or an opportunity that gets better than this. You need to acknowledge each other. Relationship will never be automated. We will always need each other if you want to psychologically be healthy.

Cindy Thompson: I'm really glad that we got to talk about that because I feel like this is important to find that sweet spot for people to be heard and understood, but at the same time, like you suggested, access their creativity in that way by first seeing them and being able to encourage them to show up fully, even in the messy parts so that we can hold space for that and know that we don't have to have it all together all the time. We can show up and have a hard day, but if we acknowledge it, I think that often we can move through it sooner. 

Jody Carrington: Hundred percent. 

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm. What is one thing that people might be surprised to know about you? 

Jody Carrington: That I adore my children more than anything on the planet, but I'm not a huge fan of being a mom. I think that in this experience, this time, in this one generation being very different. The role of men and women are changing dramatically. I forwent relationships to be a mom. I really knew that in my heart I wanted children. They are the best thing that ever happened to me. I love my work almost as much.

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm.

Jody Carrington: I think oftentimes we misattribute kindness, caring, connection, the role of a woman, as somebody who really just desires to spend all the time in their world with their children. Or they're working their jobs so that they can spend more time with their children. I want our life to be one where we spend lots of time with our kids. That's what I love together. But I think what we often do in this shift is we misunderstand sometimes the importance of loving everything else. I hate cooking. I don't know how to do it. Both my mother and my mother-in-law are so skilled. The expectation was of course, "You are gonna make the..." No. No, no, no. I'll bring the buns! We can only be good at so many things. 

I think we're really caught in this first generation of being in this place of not only can you be a successful author, speaker, psychologist, teacher, business owner, CEO, whatever the deal is, and still be able to pick up the kids, make the cookies, get everybody matching outfits, do your family pictures once a year and like kumbaya and there's a little bit around the normalization for me of, I adore this work, and I fear so many times that I'm gonna let my babies down in this process. But I think the honesty around knowing that it's okay to love motherhood just marginally more than my work. 

Cindy Thompson: I love that you said that because I can remember when our kids were little, we have two kids, and I would get together with my next door neighbor who had kids about the same age. She would just say, "I love being a mom. It's just the best thing ever," and secretly inside of me, I'd feel like, what's wrong with me? It's hard, it's messy and it does trigger you. And you really dial into that on a regular basis as to what's going on for yourself as you're raising them. 

I also love work. And I remember then meeting another mom who was just volunteering at the YMCA at the same time, and we were looking after kids at the daycare in order to then be able to go work out. This is how I knew she was gonna be a friend - her opening line to me was, "How about that labor?" I went, yes! This is my kind of person! Some people truly feel that and I get it, but I really appreciate getting together with people that tell it like it is. I think that's something I respect about you, Jody, is you talk about the scratchy parts, you talk about the hard parts. You don't just pretend to speak from, this is what I know, but this is what I live, and this is the really messed up parts about being human, and I love that you bring that to the table and I suspect that's what people see in you too.

Jody Carrington: Yeah. That's cool. I really appreciate that. I think it's that authenticity that we so appreciate in other people and then sometimes find it so hard because for fear of judgment or retribution or comparison. Do we really feel like that? I don't know. God, after you say that, what if my kids heard me say that?

 And they have said to me many times, "Hey I read that post that you did where you said that you like your work as much as you like us," and I was like, "Yeah, I do. Do you wanna talk about it? What does that mean to you? What does that mean to you as my kid? Who's gonna be your biggest fan for the rest of your life? Your dad and me. Not a question in real life. Did it also mean that we also have things that we love to do outside of you? You got it. You got it. I'm so confident in your ability to create your own village, know that I will be in the front row every single time that I can get an opportunity to, but I also am quite confident that you're gonna have a village of remarkable people because people are so lucky to have you in their world."

 And I think that's the thing we often say to our kids, chase your dreams, be great, but you can't tell 'em that if you're not doing that yourself.

Cindy Thompson: Mm-hmm. That was just coming to mind because it's modeling for our kids that if you are pursuing your passion and this is what lights you up, they're gonna look back on this as an adult and really respect that. 

I've had the opportunity to have that discussion with our daughter just recently, who's now 29, who remembered me doing my master's degree and I was working almost full-time. And she said, I remember you coming in and maybe getting an A on your paper and us celebrating together. It was kind of cool to hear that feedback. Now as adults your kiddos are still, developing, growing, but I'm sure they're gonna give you that feedback and be very proud of the really cool, meaningful impact you've had. 

Jody Carrington: Yeah. Let's hope, but I think there's always that balance of none of us are gonna get it right. So you could stay home every single day. Every single moment, hate it or love it, and there will still be something that your kids needs to go to therapy for. 

Cindy Thompson: Right! They're gonna be talking about us!

Jody Carrington: It doesn't matter, right? It doesn't matter. So you might as well, find some joy.

Cindy Thompson: I love that. 

It made me wonder, as I picture you sitting down and writing these books, like you seem like such a people person, it made me curious as to where you get your cup filled. Is it in writing? Is it about going out public speaking? Is it about seeing people one-on-one? Where do you get filled up the most?

Jody Carrington: Mm-hmm. I really, really love people. I love good conversation. I love being around people who are insightful and funny and find pieces of life that are great. I really love being on the road. And then I just so value my time by myself to dig into a new research project. Oftentimes when I write, I love to be in a hotel room by myself and my preference is always that there's like a mountain or an ocean outside the window. My favorite things on the planet, at Staples you can get these big white sheets which you write on what do you call...?

Cindy Thompson: Like a flip chart?

Jody Carrington: Yeah. But the ones that are, have the sticky things on them, and you pull them off and you write your ideas and then you can move them. You can also do this with sticky notes, but apparently I don't play small. Both of my masters and my PhD were qualitative research and so I did a lot of narrative analysis of pulling thoughts and ideas out and how do they group together and how do you fit those together and really what these people are, you distill it down to these things.

 I love when I'm writing to think about that. Who wrote this? Huh? I love that she says this. Or, Harriet Lerner had said this three generations ago, but we're saying right now, instead, Perel says very much the same thing. And Brene says this, but I think that if we put this and this together, none of us are right. But I love the idea that the concept can be pulled together in a way that what do you think, world? Do you think that this makes sense? And do you think this would be helpful to unpacking? 

What I truly know is that concept of when you name it, you tame it. When you can organize the messiness of the world. And I feel like that's probably my superpower, is being able to organize the messiness of the world. I really enjoy it. And I have a full-time job in my own head. Also, I married a full-time job and my parents are full-time jobs. I think the things that are messy with emotions and experiences and traumas and past hurts, if you enjoy that, which I adore, I think it's so fun. And so you get your fuel from other people, but I do my best work when I'm by myself.

Cindy Thompson: I wondered about that because I can imagine the beauty of that process for you that goes into this book. I'm imagining all of the flip chart sheets hung up around the room as you're correlating and designing where this book is going to show up at the end of this line as to how you create it, how you develop it. I would imagine there's just a bunch of sticky charts around your room as you're collating. Yeah. Jody, as we get ready to wrap up, what other resilience practices have you come to rely on that you might wanna share with our listeners?

Jody Carrington: Okay, I think about resilience and reconnection. I love the "re-" that starts both of those words. Because it's indicative of the fact that it's not an end game. You have to get back to it again and again and again. How do you practice becoming resilient at something? It's that you do it again. How do you get connected? You have to reconnect. It's not just that one shot deal. Connection is the easy part. Being purposeful or strong in a moment is the easy part. But the resilience it takes to show up again and again is the relentless effort or belief that you're headed in a direction that's gonna be worth it, okay?

 For me, it really comes down to, again, that bigger picture. I don't necessarily need to know or can't know how I'm gonna get there every day. 'Cause I don't know if my kids are gonna get sick or my husband and I are gonna be together forever. Or, I can't predict that in the moment. I do know that the purpose in this life is that we're walking each other home. I do know that I'm gonna give my kids the best shot at having the best mom on the planet. I wanna be a New York Times bestseller. I would love to be able to take my children around the world. I would love to grow old with my husband on a golf course. The bigger picture for me, the why, the walking, that ideal of this world. I have so much hope in humanity and connection and showing people how to do it.

 The other thing that I think in terms of being resilient, relentlessly in pursuit of something where you have to check yourself again and again and again, would be the necessity to surround yourself with good people. I think what you take in, who you listen to in terms of who you follow, who you support, who you read, I think becomes so critically important because you have such little space in this brain. 

So whose opinions do you rely on the most? The people who will catch you when you fall and can give you the harshest feedback, but are your biggest fans, if you have one or two or three or four of those in your world, hold onto them tight. I often talk about my people. My husband comes on and off the list, depending on what we're talking about. But generally speaking, they're not just your friends, they're your people. They know you. Okay. 

The third thing about resiliency for me is really the necessity to understand the connection between your head and your heart. That when you treat your vessel well, like when you drink water, when you move your body, when you just drop your shoulders, when you find gratitude, when you wiggle your toes and can remember that breathing deep of bathing the soul every so often is what's necessary to bring you back down in that prefrontal cortex.

 Those resiliency practices for me are always like, what's the bigger picture? Because we can get caught in the weeds so easy. Who are you sitting with? You sit with the winners, the conversation is different. And then number three is really that idea of can I just be still?

Cindy Thompson: Yes. And breathe.

Jody Carrington: Mm.

Cindy Thompson: Yeah. It sounds like you've found that sweet spot of being with the people, which also fills your cup, but also finding that balance to just be home, be in your space, or sit by the ocean , even if you're away. Find those moments that you can reconnect to Jody. You're giving so much away every time you are doing one of these speaking opportunities or at a big conference with hundreds and hundreds of people there. I love that you would take that time to replenish your soul and thank you for sharing those practices with us.

Jody Carrington: Mm-hmm. Thank you for asking me. It's so good to remember them.

Cindy Thompson: Oh, good. Once again, really wanna express my gratitude that you would take some time outta your busy schedule to be here in conversation. And I feel like together we are growing a resilient community all around the world together, Jody, and thanks for letting me be a little part of your world too.

Jody Carrington: And thank you. Your community is phenomenal too, so it was such an honor to sit with you again. I look forward to the next time.

Cindy Thompson: Thank you, Jody. It’s been my pleasure. 

Cindy Thompson: Before I share some take-aways from this amazing conversation with Jody, I have a favour to ask.  If you have been enjoying this podcast I would love for you to rate and comment on your preferred podcast platform. This allows us reach even more people as we strive to cultivate resilience around the world.  

 I am grateful for the work Jody is doing to remind us just how important it is to continue re-connecting.  Growing a relationship is not just about hearing or seeing but feeling seen. Which means It also involves our willingness to be brave and allow others to authentically see us.  

This part of the podcast, I pull out some of the highlights from my conversation with the guest. It is worth mentioning that these takeaways are all working together and preparing the soil for connection. A staple for any resilience practice.  

In our conversation, Jody identified three essential resilience practices:

1.     Resilience and reconnection go hand in hand: it isn't a one-and-done. She reminds us that it takes resilience to show up again and again for one another. Even when it is hard.

2.     Surround yourself with good people. Make sure you have individuals in your life who you can rely on.

3.     Understand the connection between your head and your heart: drop your shoulders, find a gratitude practice, allowing time to rest and be still.

This will also help you get back in line with the prefrontal cortex).

 When we create connection, you can re-discover joy. And in order to feel joy, we need to be emotionally regulated.

 This conversation is timely and meaningful to our healing. Thank Jody, again, for partnering with us on the A Resilience Project.  I hope you will check out her latest book because it is filled with so many thought-provoking concepts, stories and an invitation for all of us to strive for better.  

 As we wrap up this episode, I would like to leave you with two questions and a quote:

 1. Who do you have in your life that helps you co-regulate?

2. What can you do today to lean in, heal and repair a relationship?  

 Quote:  

 In choosing a quote to share with you, I was drawn to Brene Brown’s work from her book "Atlas of the Heart." 

 “Story stewardship means honouring the sacred nature of the story – the ones we share and the ones we hear – and knowing that we've been entrusted with something valuable or that we have something valuable that we should treat with respect and care."

 The idea of Story stewardship leads me to reflect on how I show up daily in my work, with the podcast and my personal life.   I hope you will consider the extraordinary moments we are given each day to  hear and share our stories with one another.  

And remember, friends, Adversity is inevitable while resilience is a practice.

 Cindy Thompson: Thank you for listening to this episode of ‘A Resilience Project.’ We would not be doing this podcast without you. If you or someone you know has an inspirational story or is helping to build resilience in their community, please e-mail me at cindy@aresilienceproject.com. In fact, e-mail me either way. I would love to hear from you. My hope is to feature an episode periodically on your letters of resilience. I'm very interested in hearing your story of how you have tackled hard things and what worked for you. With your permission, I hope to share some of these stories along the way with our listeners. Also, check out my website, aresilienceproject.com to learn more about our amazing guests.  

Your presence here is important because together we are cultivating a village of resilient individuals. You are creating a space for their stories to be shared and a sacred space for learning to occur. I also have a favor - I would love for you to go to your preferred podcast platform, rate and review the podcast so that we will know how we're doing. I also would like to express my gratitude to the amazing team of volunteers that have jumped on board to support this project. You will find each of those beautiful people on my website on the team page.  

As you go about this week, I invite you to think about one way that you can continue to grow your resilient muscle. What is one thing you can start with today? See you next week.

 HELPFUL RESILIENCE INFORMATION

Definition of Resilience

Capacity to cope with and recover quickly from setbacks, difficulties, and toughness; to adapt well to change; and keep going in the face of adversity.

Types of Resilience - how the body deals with change and recovers from physical demands, illnesses, and injuries. 

Physical Resilience how the body deals with change and recovers from physical demands, illnesses and injuries.  

Mental Resilience ability to adapt to change and uncertainty.  

Emotional Resilience ability to regulate emotions during times of stress. 

Social Resilience community resilience – ability of groups to recover from difficult situations.

Areas of Life or Situations That Require A High Level of Resilience:

·      Resilience in Adoption

·       Resilience in Adults

·       Resilience in Anxiety - Depression

·       Resilience in Body Image – Eating Disorders

·       Resilience in Change

·       Resilience in Children

·       Resilience in Chronic Illness

·       Resilience in Death & Dying

·       Resilience in Divorce

·       Resilience in Immigration

·       Resilience in Non-Profits

·       Resilience in Marriage

·       Resilience in Parenting

·       Resilience in Post Secondary Education

·       Resilience in Pregnancy

·       Resilience in Racism

·       Resilience in Relationships

·       Resilience in Suicide

·       Resilience in Teens

·       Resilience in Trauma 

·       Resilience in War

·       Resilience in the Workplace

 Traits, Qualities and Characteristics That People with Resilience Possess:

·         They are authentic

·         They adapt to change and see it not as a challenge, but an opportunity

·         They make commitments and keeps them

·         They feel in control – strong internal locus of control

·         They have close and secure attachment to others

·         They set personal or collective goals

·         They become stronger with the effect of stress

·         They learn from past successes and mistakes

·         They view themselves as survivors – Survivor mentality

·         They have a good self-image

·         They are confidence in ability to make good decisions

·         They have a sense of humor

·         They have an action-oriented approach to life

·         They have patience around people

·         They have optimism in face of uncertainty

·         The have Faith or some belief in a higher power

Ways to build Resilience in People

·       Create more purpose and meaning in all that you do

·       Develop a good support system – supportive network circle that they can engage for help

·       Maintaining positive relationships

·       Work towards developing good communication skills.

·       Develop the capacity to make realistic plans and to carry them out

·       Maintain a well-balanced routine lifestyle of diet and exercise

·       Practice emotional regulation to manage your feelings, impulses and emotions 

·       Practice good problem-solving skills to rationally develop solutions

·       Find ways to help others

·       Set time aside for journaling

·       Develop new skills to respond differently to situations. ... 

·       Turn setbacks into opportunities for growth. ... 

·       Maintain a healthy perspective. ... 

·       Maintain Proper sleeping habits

·       Practice meditation

Organizations that promote and support Resilience

Resilience Quotes

Resilience Books