EP.23 - From Kingston Dreams to Wall Street Ambitions: David Mulling's Path

In this inspiring episode, Roy and Sean sit down with globally recognized investor, philanthropist, and economic visionary David Mullings, founder and CEO of Blue Mahoe Capital. From his early years in Kingston and Miami to building companies before most people finish college, David shares a powerful journey driven by purpose, discipline, and a deep commitment to uplifting the Caribbean diaspora.

David opens up about discovering his life mission at age 15, the cultural influence of growing up Jamaican, and how intentional life design keeps him balanced and focused. He breaks down the roles of mentors, teachers, coaches, and sponsors, highlighting how each shaped his path and how he pays that forward today.

We dive into the origin story of Blue Mahoe Capital, its mission to democratize investment access for everyday people, and the firm’s commitment to impact-driven wealth creation across the Caribbean. David also shares the surprising story behind securing the NASDAQ ticker “IRIE”, the resilience required to survive the financial shock of COVID, and the leadership lessons he learned from billionaire mentor Michael Lee‑Chin.

From entrepreneurship and regional unity to building generational wealth and designing a legacy with intention, this conversation is packed with insights, energy, and inspiration. Whether you're an entrepreneur, investor, or leader looking to make a difference, David’s story will challenge you to think bigger and lead with purpose.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• How to define your purpose early and use it to guide major life and business decisions.
• How to turn cultural identity into a source of confidence and ambition.
• How to build a strong support system by leveraging mentors, teachers, coaches, and sponsors.
• How to access and participate in wealth creation, inspired by Blue Mahoe Capital’s inclusive investment approach.
• How to transform cultural pride into opportunity, through the story behind NASDAQ ticker IRIE.
• How to make clearer, less stressful decisions using simple, repeatable frameworks.
• How to take practical steps toward a meaningful legacy, starting now.

Be inspired by David’s journey—tune in now to hear his remarkable story.

Connect with David Mullings

• Website:  Blue Mahoe Capital
• LinkedIn: David Mullings

Connect with the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast Hosts:

• LinkedIn: Roy Richardson
• LinkedIn: Sean Murphy

If you found this episode of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast inspiring, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform. This way, you won't miss out on future episodes featuring other dynamic business leaders.

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Transcript

Welcome & Guest Introduction

Roy Richardson 0:03

Hello, I'm Roy Richardson, and this is the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. Welcome to another edition of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. I'm your host, Roy Richardson, joined by my insightful co-host and wingman, Sean Murphy. Sean, great to have you here today with me, buddy.

Sean Murphy 0:29

Well, thank you, and insightful, one of my favorite titles.

Roy Richardson 0:34

Awesome, awesome. So this podcast is brought to you by Aurora InfoTech, helping organizations stay secure, resilient, and future ready in today's digital world. And today, folks, our guest is a globally recognized investor, philanthropist, and economic visionary. Born in Jamaica and raised between Kingston and Miami. He built his first company at just 19, earned his MBA at 22, and has been committed ever since to uplifting the Caribbean diaspora through entrepreneurship, access to capital, and generational wealth creation. He is the founder, chairman, and CEO of Blue Mahoe Capital, an impact investing firm opening doors for retail investors and reshaping access to opportunities in the Caribbean and beyond, with plans to expand into Africa. He's a Forbes Business Council member, a former future leaders representative for the Jamaican diaspora, and a passionate advocate for minority wealth creation, financial literacy, and economic empowerment. Outside the boardroom, he's a former competitive footballer, rally car co-driver, devoted husband, and father of three, and mentor shaping the next generation of leaders. Please join us in welcoming David Mullings, an inspiring leader whose bold vision, courage, and purpose-driven journey have impacted communities across the Caribbean, the U.S., and beyond. David, welcome. We're excited to dive into your journey and really, really thank you for the opportunity to be here with us today.

David Mullins 2:06

No, thank you for that incredible intro. I need to find out who wrote it for you. Not my team.

Roy Richardson 2:15

Well, we Sean and I have a great team here. Happy to have you here with us.

Sean Murphy 2:25

Right. Right. Yeah, no, I am ecstatic. For years, I had heard about this David Mullins, this guy doing huge things in the financial business here in Orlando, that was a UM guy and very involved with the Alumni Association. And when I had the pleasure of getting to meet him about five, six months ago, it was incredible. And so, David, on behalf of all of the alumni around the world, and thank you for all of the work that you're doing. And I have the pleasure of, as the past president of the local alumni association, we got the incoming president for Orlando Central Florida, this coming June and Roy. And then we have you, who's going to be the national and international president for the whole alumni association in June. I am thrilled, man. And as we it's all about the you, right? It's all about the you. That's right. Well, again, great to have you here and looking forward to uh this time with you.

David Mullins 3:24

I'm excited for this. Thank you for for the invite. I really look forward to it, and I'm excited for what you guys have been doing as well. I think it's important that when you talk about the topic dynamic business leaders, I think that we don't want to be static business leaders if you want to be around in 20 years or more. So I love the the name of your podcast.

Rally Co‑Driving And Competitive Spirit

Roy Richardson 3:44

Awesome. Awesome. Well, well, you know, let's let's kick this thing off here with something light. Sean, take it away.

Sean Murphy 3:51

Yeah. Um, David, what's something about you that most people don't know?

David Mullins 3:58

Well, you already brought up the Rallied Co-Driver one in the bio, so now they know that. So I'm gonna skip past that one.

Sean Murphy 4:05

So listen, over lunch, when we met over lunch, I heard some things about you that I was like, oh. And I guess there was like a movie or some kind is it the Star Wars thing?

David Mullins 4:17

Yeah, but so yeah, my my oldest son's name is Luke. My holding company is actually called Skywalker Holdings. But I'll give you, I'll give you one that is that is very different. I don't talk about it much at all, but since you guys are something that most people wouldn't know, I'm going to go with one on the video game side of things. I I played a lot of, yeah, I still play video games. And there was a game called Destiny. Okay, a member of a small clan called Dads of Destiny, and and one year they they hosted a tournament. And raids are six-person raids. There was a way to beat this raid as a solo person, and I entered the competition and I I once I had the fastest time to beat this raid as a solo person in the entire world.

Sean Murphy 5:01

Very cool, very cool. Lewis Hamilton kind, huh? Yeah.

Roy Richardson 5:08

And and and so I I have to ask you, I want to go back on that rally co-driver, because when I read that, you know, that's not something we hear every day. How did that how did that come about?

David Mullins 5:18

So I I grew up in a house where we love driving. Grandma taught us how to drive. This is dad's mom. Okay. We always were into cars. My brother and I love cars. When we were in the United States, you know, we had a Lower Dundee Civic hatchback turbocharge branded for our first business real vibes. We owned I both of us had Evolution 9. And when I went back to Jamaica after undergrad, a friend of mine from prep school and high school were in class together. His family used to rally. He decided he was going to go on the rally and he was in circuit. And I jokingly said, Hey, I could be a navigator. That can't be hard. I could be a co-driver. I'll read the pace notes. And he said, Really? You do it? I said, Yeah, how much it costs? He said, No, buy a suit, buy a helmet. We will handle the car stuff. You need to help us with entry fees, tires, fuel, but it's not some insane numbers. And so I had to go and actually go and do a test. I had to do some courses, then a test. I got my rally license in Jamaica, and then for a year and a half, I was on that rally team, a front-wheel drive, Toyota Stylet with a blacktop engine. Very cool. And we actually won. We raced for the year and we rallied Jamaica for our class, JA3, and I have this massive trophy. And grandma took that trophy for a year and put it in the middle of our dining table in the started with her. Yeah, it was. We got to drive in parts of Jamaica that I didn't know exist, which which was incredible. We got to meet people from all walks of life. I mean, we had kids coming over and asking us to autograph booklets and had our pictures in there. It really was fun. But again, it's it's it's fairly safe, right? There's no other cars on the road at the same time. We get to drive at a speed that sounds crazy, but we get to drive on the road before. So we know what's coming up. We know when the corner is, we know what gear to be in. It was it was incredible. But for me, the most fun was in early December, you rally Jamaica finishes in Kingston. They do a new Kingston leg. So this is in the heart of the financial district. We're driving down the wrong side of the road, he's pulling up the handbrake, he's doing these 180s. It was so much fun with thousands of people and rooftops and along the street. And and I was in the car, I was there. We were doing this. Very cool. So listen.

Roy Richardson 7:33

He said just now the wrong side of the road. But you know, if we go to Jamaica, it's the wrong side of the road, right?

David Mullins 7:37

So I mean, you were on the wrong side of the road in Jamaica. That's the kind of because the way the course was designed, we couldn't drive on the left side. We had to go down the right side to do the handbrake turn to then do what we needed to do. So we actually drove the wrong way to get in in New Kingston to do what we needed to do.

Sean Murphy 7:55

Nice. So so how old were you when you got into it?

David Mullins 7:59

Oh, gee. So this this is me 25? Okay. Yeah, finished MBA, went back home, was working down there. And so this is 2006-2007 that I'm I'm racing. So 2006 through 2008. Got it. Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I will I will do it again. I I promised my brother before he turns 50, he's 44 now. Before he turns 50, he will get to drive a rally car in Jamaica with me as his co-driver, as his navigator. Because he's actually the better driver. He is a better driver than me, hands down. And he has never had the chance to go and do even one rally in Jamaica. So that's what I promised to him.

Jamaican Roots, Mindset, And Overachievement

Sean Murphy 8:38

Nice. Very, very cool. So hey, look, you mentioned Jamaica. You grew up, not Jamaica, but Kingston. So you grew up between Kingston and Miami. What elements of the Jamaican, you know, um culture that still allows you to do what you do today or how you move and what you do today?

David Mullins 8:58

Well, I realized later on that I was privileged to be born and raised in a country that was majority black. I didn't think about race when I was in Jamaica. Because everybody looked like me. I didn't think it was weird to want to do be a doctor, be a lawyer, nothing like that. We have black business people, black CEOs, black president, you know, black prime ministers, presidents of the bank. So that was beneficial to me. And then as a country that says we lick about with Tollawa, right? The idea is that we punch way above our weight for such a country. That is the thing, I would say, more than anything else. You can tell when a Jamaican is in the room. It's as simple as that. Everybody knows that we are essentially overachievers, but we don't see it as anything special. Like we are expected to overachieve. We're expected to have the fastest man in the world. We're expected to have the fastest women in the world. We're expected to do amazing music and have this cultural thing and to try hard at whatever we do. So that is the most Jamaican thing about me. My question is always why not me? Very cool. Yes, excellent.

Roy Richardson 9:58

Like that.

Sean Murphy 9:59

Love it, love it, love it, love it.

Roy Richardson 10:01

I like that. And you know, when you look and and and perfect segue because when I look at your bio and all the different things that you're involved with, and I I, you know, one of the questions that comes to mind is, you know, when do you get true downtime and what does that look like?

David Mullins 10:19

So I, you know, the the wording, I love it. I saw it when it said it says get downtime. And for me, it's about make time for what matters. So I make downtime. And that's the first thing. I make downtime. But that's where delegation comes in, that's where building a strong team comes in. And so I make downtime. So right now, last semester, last year, I was saying semester, because I was on campus the whole time. Last summer I was in Jamaica for six weeks because I had football training, soccer, three days a week, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday morning because I'm playing in an over 40 competition. We have a Masters League, the team I used to play for the professional team as an over 40 team. Some of my guys are playing. I sponsor the team. So I trained all summer and then I would stay and play some of the games and fly back. I made time for that. This year in 2026, decided to go back to swimming. I used to swim for prep school and high school as a competitive swimmer. Now, one of my team members in Bloomah Capital took up master swimming last year. She did water polo for Jamaica.

Sean Murphy 11:18

Very good. Went to one of our meets in December, and I was blown away to see someone who is 49 years old who is swimming a 50-meter freestyle in 39 seconds in front of a stadium of people. And I was like, Yeah.

David Mullins 11:32

I could do this. And and the biggest catch, right? Four ladies all over 40 jumped on the blocks, went in the pool, and they didn't care. They were just there to swim for themselves. They didn't care about the time. Two guys stepped up for the guys' race, and I had to set her. I was like, oh, wait. You mean if I had entered the race as guaranteed a medal, sign me up. I've been doing training Tuesdays. This is Wednesday mornings, 5:30 a.m. for an hour, and then Saturday morning, 6.30 a.m. I make that time, right? I don't stay out as late on Friday when I'm in Jamaica and I go and trade. So I need a goal. That's what works for me. I couldn't have just I would not be waking up at 5:30 in the morning in the middle of the week to go and swim in a cold pool unless there was a reason. So my swim meet, my first swim meet as an adult, is January 31st, Saturday, and February 1st. Jamaica. So I'm going to be swimming at the National Stadium. So I make time for it. And I want more people to realize that it's not about getting time, it's about designing the life you want. And then you just have to sacrifice something. So I sacrifice the going out on a Friday night to train Saturday morning because I'm going to swim. And I do not want kids laughing at me and not being able to finish the 50-meter food.

Designing Downtime And Goal-Driven Habits

Roy Richardson 12:44

Right, right, right. Well, first of all, thank you for putting it that perspective. Because yes, you you are right. We we often look to see, you know, where do we where do we get time from? How do we how do we create an opportunity to have downtime? Whereas if we set a goal and drive towards that, you know, and and just even even I mean the training is trainous, but it it takes you away from from your everyday environment and puts you, how do you say it's what's the word I'm looking for? Therapeutic, right?

David Mullins 13:18

Ooh, that's the word. And and and that's for me, that's also a bit of a risk in the sense of I make time to play video games of the kids, but sometimes I'm traveling and I carry my Nintendo Switch with me and I'll play it. That is some downtime for me. But especially when it's puzzle-related stuff, I like doing things that keep my brain active, but I spend so much time on an average day dealing with so many things and so many juggling so many balls. Now, when I try to do something like meditate, I don't get to clear my head. I do yoga, my head is not clear because I can still think, in my opinion. I can't just focus. When I'm swimming, leave me, I'm focused on breathing and stroke. There's nothing else happening in my head. When I'm on the football field, I can't afford to think about this email I didn't respond to, or this. No, no, no. I'm on the field. I'm gonna get crushed if I don't pay attention. So I like when I'm forced to have to concentrate. The catch with the video games is that it can be easy and you it's therapeutic, but then you end up going so far down the rabbit hole, they keep wanting to do that, and you don't remember when to dial it back and they say, oh crap, two hours just passed. So I said I set goals in the game. I don't set time limits. Here's a goal I'd like to accomplish, and I have one hour to do it. So I'm in the game trying to go.

Roy Richardson 14:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Mullins 14:31

When the time is done, as I man, I didn't accomplish the goal. What happened? So it's not just a time limit. I'm playing with a purpose, and I do the same thing with the children. Guys, what do you want to get done today in the game? We set goals, right? I want my kids to be goal-oriented. Yeah. And if we don't achieve the goal, we're going to review why we didn't achieve the goal. Oh, I got distracted and I ran over here to go and chase this thing. Okay, fine. You're allowed to get distracted sometimes. Well, at least you recognize you got distracted. Yeah. And that's what you are from the goal. Sometimes we get distracted, though, and you find something new. And you actually find something like, oh man, that was a hidden space. It was beneficial to get distracted. Right. We have to be we have to know that this is the goal, this is a path. I am off the path. And that's the way I approach my whole life. Here's the path. Here's the goal. Oh, I'm off the path. I need to get back. Or guess what? This new path is actually better. Let's stick with this one.

Roy Richardson 15:26

Nice, nice. And and speaking about paths, I want to take it here to the beginning, you know, to share your origin story because I think that's, you know, really, really important. Sean, take it away.

Sean Murphy 15:38

Yeah, man. And so I was gonna I I was anxious to ask the question. You had asked, you had said something that I love. I have a really good friend of mine that she she has an art gallery in College Park, and she's Jamaican. Her family is still very much down in the islands. And so she's like she's like my big sister. So she's in her 70s, and I I was an advid collector of so the Edna School of Manly School of Arts. I got several pieces in my house of the guy who ran it. I I'm I'm having a mental lapse of his name, but that was a very good friend of hers. And so we'd always talk about what you said earlier, which was just it's expected that you're gonna do well. Yeah. And and I really, really appreciate that, you know. And and this is her dad, her dad was a shoe salesman all over the world, not just selling shoes in Jamaica. He was a top salesman, you know. This is in the 60s. She's telling me that she's like, Yeah, you know, me and my brothers, we went to the best schools. I went to NYU, I went to London for school, lived over there. I I get that. Did you all have, you know, and by the way, graduating at 19 with your MBA from UM, that's no small task. So very, very impressive. Did you have mentors growing up to, you know, maneuvering through this stuff? And even still today, do you have mentors? Is that a major part of helping shape your mindset and where you're going and stuff like that? It's good to see others doing it, but when you're running through those obstacles and things like that, you might get weary and stuff. And do you have someone, did you need someone to keep encouraging you?

David Mullins 17:24

So I was fairly intrinsically motivated once I turned 15. I finished high school in Jamaica at 15, started college in the U.S. So I had a plan laid out, knew what the goal is. So I became very intrinsically motivated at 15. Before that, dad was the main person. Mom was there, but especially dad, a lecturer at university in Jamaica, and a doctor who had to make his way, right? We learned their stories, we understand what they went through. We lived a life of more privilege than they did. Well, I want to make sure my children then also have an even better life, but understand what was required, the price the family had to pay to give each of us that, right? Each generation, in my opinion, should be better off than the last one. We need to pass on knowledge and allow them to remember where they came from. That's important. So I think of it as three kinds of people you need. And there's a sequence. You first start with mentors. I don't ever have to meet somebody to be a mentor. I think most of us think of mentors as somebody I can talk to. Mentor is somebody I can read about who becomes a role model and I can study what they did. Absolutely. I then move to teachers. Teachers are people I actually get to learn from. So my dad was my teacher, as far as I'm concerned. Richard Branson was a mentor. Read about him. But dad is a teacher. Certain life skills, certain things about investing, how to dress, how to present yourself. Public speaking. That's dad. Holding that. And then we move on to coach. Michael Leachin is who coached me. There's a difference, right? I think mentors spend a few hours with many people. I meet you once, I talk to you. I might check in once every three months, once every six months. Teachers spend many hours with a few people. And I'm in a classroom one to 30. That's a teacher. Versus coaches now pick who they want to help win. When I'm on the team, that's a smaller group of people, and the coach is giving me drills. They're helping to correct me. They're picking out what I'm good at, what I'm not good at. And they're coaching. So there's a difference. So I focus now on somebody coaching me. Who else can I coach? And then eventually you want that person to become your sponsor. That's the final one where they're not teaching anything, they're opening doors for you. Sponsors pick people, right? Sponsors pick people who already have proven that they're serious about what they want to do. It's not just about talent, it's about your attitude. All right, I like this person, they're serious about it. I am going to put them on. And so Michael Leachin has gone from being a teacher to a coach to a sponsor.

Roy Richardson 19:54

Very cool to me.

Sean Murphy 19:55

Yeah.

Roy Richardson 19:56

Very impressive. Very impressive. And you know, you are, how do you say you you uh first of all, I I love I love that how you you you you know kind of lay that out there from mentor, teacher, coach, sponsor, and and broke that down. Because you are right, we tend to look at mentors and and but anybody can be, you know, I can meet somebody once in a lifetime and they may have mentored me on something, but it's those who really take the time to coach are the ones who make, you know, who've made the difference and at least in in my life. And you, you know, when when I look back on on your bio here, David, you you started your company at a very young age. What made entrepreneurship click so early for you?

Mentors, Teachers, Coaches, Sponsors

David Mullins 20:37

What made entrepreneurship click so early for me? You know, so I'll be honest, I wouldn't say it clicked early for me. I designed this life plan. So at age 15, mom and dad sit me down and ask me, what do I want to be when I grow? And I said, that's actually really easy. I want to be a positive role model for young people around the world, especially young males in Jamaica. That was it. And and dad is like, oh my gosh, that's that's not the answer we expected. Right. And so they said, okay, well, how you plan to do that? You we know you, that means you have a plan. What is the plan? I said, well, I have four options, right? I have four different paths to accomplish this overall goal. Option number one is that I could follow in your footsteps, that I could become a lecturer at university and positively impact students every semester, every year. Right. I said, Oh, I'm flattered that you'd follow in my footsteps, but that's not big enough impact for you. Take that off the table. What's option number two? I said, Oh, I could become a politician and eventually prime minister of Jamaica. I could run the country better, get rid of corruption, and we could end up changing an entire country for generations going forward. And mom said, Oh, that's actually doable for you, but you're probably going to get us shot. So please take that off the table. What's the last two? And said, Oh, well, that's easy. The number three, option number three, is that I could become a Soccer player and then become a football player and use that for good. Option number four is that I could become a successful entrepreneur who then makes my own money and then uses that money to make music and films that changes the way Jamaicans see themselves and the way the world sees Jamaica. And mom says, Oh, those aren't mutually exclusive. We will support you in both of them. Dad says, No, you need to go and pitch us a business every summer and every Christmas that we can invest.

Sean Murphy 22:29

Man, that is awesome. I'm gonna steal that. Yeah, yeah. Even if it's a fictitious one. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

David Mullins 22:35

So that's exactly what happened. So I I had a I had four options. My parents narrowed it down to two. One is football, one is going to become a successful business owner. Knowing that I want to do money later, and then that's just great. You can read these books. Mom buys me how to win friends and influence people, right? For example, that's one of the books she gave me. She gave me, and and I now need to pitch every summer and every Christmas some business I can invest $10,000 in. And I said no from 1996 summer until December 2001. They said no. But they finally said yes in December 2001. And we launched that business February 1st, 2000. So I'll proximum and that. I I will forever big devil.

Roy Richardson 23:18

Nice, nice. And and you know that's how do you say it seems to be a theme, I would say, and for a lot of the Caribbean islanders. You mentioned earlier, Sean, about you know, the how do you say, what what was what what was the motivating factor, right? And and I can tell you as as an islander myself and the Caribbean, you you certainly have something amongst all family members, first and foremost, is don't embarrass me, you know. Embarrass me, right? And my last name enough. Yes, exactly. You got you have to represent that last name. And and you you had the opportunity, David, of of growing up in in two different locations, you know, between Jamaica and Miami. And and and how how did that influence the way that you saw opportunity?

David Mullins 24:04

Well, it was important because mom first was a nurse in New York. So she went to nursing school in the UK, came back to Jamaica, met dad, they got married, and eventually in the 80s, she starts working as a nurse in New York and then comes down to Miami. So she goes up and she's up there for two weeks, home for a week, two weeks again, and then back in Jamaica. So she got an apartment near Jackson Memorial. That's why I know University of Miami so well. So I would we would take turns. My brother and I would take turns flying up with getting to be at this apartment, hang out, and we got to see how different certain things were. So customer service, for example, or branding, the advertising that was on TV compared to what we had in Jamaica. So seeing this land of opportunity where immigrants came over there and made something of themselves, but also were more entrepreneurial. Right. In the Caribbean, it was more along the lines of you're going to be a doctor, an engineer, lawyer. Everybody pushed into those things versus in the US. I was like, man, these guys are all willing to be entrepreneurs, they're doing this thing. Well, you can actually make good money having a bunch of car washes, for example. That's not crazy. So it definitely got me thinking broader opportunities and traditional schooling. And it also made me realize that being an entrepreneur and failing is not a bad thing. In the Caribbean, it's looked down on to go and raise money, try and then fail, and then people talk all these negative things about you.

Sean Murphy 25:28

Right.

David Mullins 25:28

The US is a badge of honor. Your earns try for trying and failing and then trying again. And so it helped to, I think of it as splitting my my mind into it. It really bifurcated the way I thought about things. So it's Jamaican in some ways, but but American in other ways.

Sean Murphy 25:44

So were you running the business while you were UM or did you at that point you had sold the business or no?

Early Entrepreneurship At UM And Smart Money

David Mullins 25:50

So we we launched it the first semester at the University of Miami. So imagine in our MBA program, this is fall 2001, my brother and I are there together, and one class, we need to have a group project where we're going to present something to the class. The idea is to actually try and launch a business. We need to go through the exercise of coming up with an idea and then presenting it in the class to then get graded. That's what the process was about. But we came up with something, pitched it, and then one hand goes up in the QA session, Wesley, black American guy, and the first question, can I invest $10,000? That was his question. Very cool. And it turns out he says, Well, I think you're onto something. So we call mama and dad, hey, we got someone who wants to give us $10,000. And that's how it started. And said, No, don't take the money. You don't know if it's smart money. And we said, What? What is smart money? And so you don't know if the person is aligned with your values. I don't know if they're short-term or long term, don't take the money. We will give you $10,000. And we said, Oh, you actually have $10,000 you can risk. We didn't know. And I said, no, we're not giving you $10,000 up front. We're going to absorb your living costs up to $10,000. So we were living in their house in permit prize at the time. So they said, you're not paying us rent. We will take on the car payment, the insurance, the health insurance, your phone bill, your water bill, the light. Right.

Sean Murphy 27:08

Very cool.

David Mullins 27:10

And we were told that we have to take part-time jobs and all the money we make from the jobs we can put into the business.

Sean Murphy 27:15

Into the business.

David Mullins 27:16

So we took jobs in the nights, Thursdays through Sunday nights at the movie theater. There was a 24-screen movie theater that's still moving for 24 off Sheridan and I-75. We were there when it launched, and we ran or supervisors for the concession stand.

Sean Murphy 27:31

Very cool.

David Mullins 27:32

That's how we started. So we took that money and we'd pumped it into the business. We bought the cameras, we bought the computers, we bought Photoshop, and we launched a website that grew into the largest website for Caribbean music videos on the web, the Real Vibes. And so we ran that while we were at university. Yeah. So we got to literally go to class, do case studies, and then bring that knowledge right back to the startup. MBAs, however, don't teach you how to start businesses. I'll be very honest. They teach you how to grow existing businesses. But we did at least learn from some case studies that we could apply certain things to it. So it was helpful.

Sean Murphy 28:08

Was the Entrepreneurial Center open at the end?

David Mullins 28:11

The Launchpad opened not long after that. And we did go through the we did go through Launchpad. I am on the advisory board of Launchpad today. And so I'm the longest servant in terms of knowing about Launchpad. Yes, I know about Moon from way back when. Yes, and it was helpful to go through Launchpad. We understood learned about term sheets and angel investing. What does a deck look like in terms of actually trying to raise money? It was useful and it was free.

Sean Murphy 28:37

I had a um call earlier today with a good friend Omar Solomon who started College Hunks Moving Junks. Oh, look at that. Look at it. They won their first seed money came from uh pitching at the University of Miami. And uh they are him and Nick are great businessmen. And I was calling him earlier because I'd love for his franchisee here in Orlando to be a guest because he seems to be doing great work here in Orlando. I see their trucks all over the place.

David Mullins 29:11

I mean, I love that story as well. We followed that one closely when we saw that happening coming out of campus to Right, right, right.

Sean Murphy 29:19

Well, listen, you've given us a ton of good, you know, nuggets, man, and and I I know the audience is going to love it. At what moment did you realize that, okay, this path that I'm on is bigger than just starting a business?

David Mullins 29:37

Well, Norma, I I knew it was always bigger from the age of 15. It was never about starting a business, it was about being a positive role model. So I started with a big, hairy audacious goal of being a positive role model globally, and especially for young years in Jamaica. So from I was 15.

Sean Murphy 29:54

Yeah.

David Mullins 29:55

I knew this was going to be big. Now I needed to figure out what was the vehicle, what was going to allow me to accomplish this crazy goal, right? Somewhat delusional, but I think you have to be delusional. I love it.

Sean Murphy 30:07

No, yes, I love it. Listen, yours came at 15, mine came at 18. Look, hey, see? And so when it was later. So yeah, when I left South State in June, it was, man, what are you talking about? I'm golden. We are living in purpose, and we're we what what I stand for is so much bigger than you, little bank, that it's not even funny. Because I'm changing lives one person at a time. And that's why, you know, my handle, and I've and I've posted my you know, my Wednesday warrior quote, right? And that's to change, make the world a better place. I want one of those hashtags on there that I've that I took, and I got that from the truest leadership institute, you know, back when I was with them. And I was like, oh, that's a fantastic handle. Make the world a better place. And that's all what we're about. And sometimes you cannot make it when you are on the payroll of you know a big organization like that because they hamstring you. And so I appreciate what you just said, man.

Roy Richardson 31:09

They don't allow you to be you. So, you know, that's right. That's right.

David Mullins 31:13

We have to put on masks when we go into those rooms. And I I don't like having to put on that's right. It is tiring. And then forget which mask am I supposed to wear today in this meet?

Sean Murphy 31:25

Right.

David Mullins 31:25

I was like, man, I don't want to wear the mask, right? And that's what I loved about Richard Branson as the role model I picked at 15 months. Well, who's a role model? And I said, Richard Branson. Right. But he never wore a mask. This guy wasn't like, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur, I'm gonna be me. And I was like, but look, he pulled it off.

Sean Murphy 31:40

Right.

David Mullins 31:41

Like what he's doing, right? He's the kind of guy that would have been on a rally team if he had the chance.

Sean Murphy 31:45

That's oh yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Well, listen, he probably was. And he's done so much other crazy stuff we don't know about it, right? That's like rally stuff is like, okay, this guy gets on a balloon and floats across the planet. Yeah, he he's he's going up into the atmosphere just for fun. It's like, okay.

Roy Richardson 32:07

Like you're crazy. Right. Let's talk a little bit about what you're doing with Blue Mahoe. You know, what what what sparked the idea of starting Blue Mahoe Capital?

The Spark And Structure Of Blue Maho

David Mullins 32:19

So I'll be very honest, you know, it it wasn't my idea. I love telling people this. So this is June 20, January 2014. I'm in Jamaica. And there's a Jamaica Stock Exchange Conference. The regional conference is every January. And I was invited to speak because I had been the future leader's representative for the Jamaica Diaspora Advisory Board. So all Jamaicans in the U.S., I represented them under the age of 35. And I was asked to speak at this conference. I'd worked in finance in Jamaica, worked with a low middle market private equity firm in the U.S. And I need to come and tell all the people in this audience, what does it take to get the Jamaica diaspora to invest back into Jamaica? That's all they asked me to talk about. I said, well, I can I can't tell you that. I said, no, but just tell us what it would take for you to invest down here. So I agree great. I go on stage and I talked about where Jamaica used to be and how we're not there anymore, our exports and so on. And then I wanted to point out that, you know, the diaspora is sending back at the time $2.4 billion area in remittances, is almost none of that has been invested. That's for friends and family. I said, if you want someone like me to write a check, we need it to meet some certain some criteria. Five simple things. And I went through the criteria. Essentially, it's related to trust. It's a low trust environment. When you leave a developing country and move to a developed country, we expect things to work a certain way and we don't just send money back home. We think the politicians are crooked or we can't trust them. The legal system takes too long, right? We can't deal with that approach. So we want a legal vehicle in our home country that we can invest in under their regulations and legal system that then goes back home with the right financial partners to then go and be invested. And that was it. And four years later, one of the guys that was in the room, Joe Matalon, chairman of ICD Group, he and I were working on a deal in the U.S. I wanted to take money from Jamaica to invest in U.S. opportunities they would normally not see that are private. Joe has first angels. He wants to learn more about early stage tech investing in the US so he can bring that approach to Jamaica as well. Showed him some projects and he says, by the way, whatever happened to that idea that you pitched us four years ago, right? This is 2018. What happened to the idea you pitched in 2014? And I was like, What? What idea? Is that a business idea? I was like, no, no, no. I was telling you what you guys need to launch for me to write a check into. And he says, No, but you're the perfect person to do it. You've worked in Jamaica, you're down there all the time. We know you from finance, we see you, we trust you. The diaspora knows and trusts you. You've worked in lower middle market private equity years. You're the perfect person to go and do it. And we will back you. What? Okay, let's go. And so we spend 18 months. I'm flying down to Jamaica every three months, meet with them once a month virtually, doing phone calls at the time to say, hey, what is this going to look like? Right. So what's he named it Bloomah, not me. Let's get a name that's Jamaican, but not blatantly Jamaican. So it's Jamaica's national tree. Trees happen to be, the tree happens to be a fast-growing hardwood that's here for the long term. That's great for an investment firm as well. Name it Bloomah. All right, here's a legal structure. Let's set this up in Orlando, in the US first, in Florida. Business, the office was in Orlando. Connected to your first lawyers, right? So 18 months to come up with the structure, and then we looked at Warren Buffett's approach, Berkshire Hathaway, and then get $15,000. This is friends, family, mom, dad, my brother, myself, and two friends. Put in the first money and we invest in the Jamaican markets in January 2020. It's the first time we actually go and buy any stocks down here to figure out does this even work? How hard is it to send the money down or how easy? So that's how we got started. Somebody else who is far more successful than me says, I see this as an opportunity for you. You're the perfect person and I'll support you. And that is something that most of us miss out. We're not listening to the person to say, hey, I think you should actually consider this. You'd be really good at this. That's what changed what I chose to go and do. I was going to take money from the Caribbean to essentially do Blackstone here in the US. And he says, Hey, no, no, you should go after the diaspora investing back home. Exactly what you said before. But you should actually do it. Don't wait on somebody else.

Roy Richardson 36:34

Nice. Nice, nice. So the the the You you chose you started with Jamaica and then you you branched out from there and expanded to the Caribbean as large as a whole. Was that more of a strategic choice or personal mission?

David Mullins 36:53

So it definitely was strategic, right? It was really simple. There was a Bloomberg article that had come out in 2019 that Jamaica had the best performing stock exchange in the whole world for five years, but no mutual funds or ETFs to give investors access to the Caribbean. So Jamaica now was on everybody's radar. It was easy to show investors, hey, here's Jamaica. You missed out on the best performing stock exchange. Here's our company, and here's a way to get access to that. For me, it was just marketing. I've an NBA, marketing and international business. Right? If it had been Trinidad or Barbados or Guyana that had that story, then I would have launched with the country that was the easiest sell. But I needed them to understand that there was geographic diversification, right? One hurricane, because that's what everybody immediately thinks. Man, but if one hurricane hits Jamaica, what happens to the portfolio? I said, no, no, guys, there's this thing called CARICOM, and we're going to focus on all of CARICOM. After two years, we realized that trying to explain to white Americans what CARICOM is was not working. So we narrowed it and said, hey, you remember the four Asian tigers? Yes. It was like, well, they're four Caribbean tigers. No, four. I went with Jamaica, Bahamas, Barbados, and Guyana. Let's pick four. And I can talk about Jamaica and the stock exchange. I can talk about Guyana and oil, right? Everybody's talking about that one. I can talk about Barbados and Bahamas with fixed exchange rates. So that gets the people to stop worrying about effects and how do I get my money back or convert it or what happened to the dollar sliding. So those were the four that we started with because it was a marketing problem. That literally was it. I want to invest across entire CARICOM, but we need to explain it in ways that are understandable. I don't have time to teach them about CARICOM anymore. I used to want to teach. I don't want to teach anymore. I just want to do, and then I'll educate you as we do the deals. Hey, we did a deal in this country. Here's why. Oh, I didn't know about that country. Oh, yeah, great. Now we get to teach it. But convincing them beforehand just it became tiring, to be honest. And so we moved on from that. So that is how we started. I'm from the Caribbean, so it was always going to be a Caribbean country. Right. The country was literally because oh, Jamaica was the one in the news and had a really easy story to sell. That was it.

Sean Murphy 39:02

Well, impact investing and minority wealth preservation, those are two big themes for both Roy and I, and it seems like it is for you. How does it show up in your day-to-day decisions that you make?

Strategy: From Jamaica To Four Caribbean Tigers

David Mullins 39:15

So two things for sure, right? On the impact side, we care about how the money is actually being used and what that company we invest in does. And this is not just about climate, right? Climate is part of that. It's not just about being green. I want to understand not just the water usage and your power usage. I want to know who is benefiting from your business. So we're investing in affordable housing, for example. That has a positive impact. When we provide capital to a business that does personal loans or does business loans and they're helping small businesses, again, to me, that is impactful, right? Whether it's a woman or a man is impactful. I want to know how many people are benefiting from that. There was a company we had like money to call Instant Save JE. And we did that during COVID. And they were able to then hire additional staff. This is about reducing water, right? Water usage, water conservation. And I love that we're able to invest in a business that's profitable but also helping to preserve water. That was an impact investment. The first thing is that it still has to be an investment. I want to make money. I'm not a non-profit. So it has to make sense from a dollars and standpoint. Then I lay on top of that. What is the impact it is having? Because, in my opinion, every dollar that's deployed by a company has an impact, whether you measure it or not. It can be positive or it can be negative. But it has an impact. I want to be intentional about having a positive impact in the communities that we invest, because I believe in stakeholder capitalism. I think that has changed to become shareholder capitalism. But the stakeholders matter. It's not just about me making money as a shareholder. If the button plant is going to then pour some chemicals into the river around the corner, then that affects the community negatively. That's why we do invest in cigarette companies because they kill their stakeholders. Right. They kill their customers too. I'm not interested in investing in something that has a negative, net negative impact on people or the planet, just because it's profitable. So that's the impact side on how we look at that. And we're going to move into measurement next. We're actually measuring stuff and can report on an annual basis. Here's a portfolio, and here's specific metrics we're tracking impact-wise. Yeah. On the minority wealth creation part, though the key is who we get as investors. So that is why our minimum is $100. It's $10 a share. It's a $100 minimum investment. We started with $500, where you could buy $500 worth of stock. And we did that using the Jobs Act here in the US. So we did a regulation crowdfunding offering, Reg CF, and specifically targeted people for $1,000 checks. Yes, you can write the $100K, the $250K, the $50K, but I can't leave out the rest of the people. That bottom of the pyramid, middle of the pyramid, has been looked, overlooked for far too long. But there's a lot more people at the base of the pyramid, and if we can help to uplift them, guess what? The entire society wins. That's a good thing. So I specifically go to target those people and talk to them because we want to educate them as well about financial. Most of these people never bought a share in their entire life. If they think about investing, they're considering real estate, and what they want to do is buy a property, live in it, move, keep that one, and buy another one, and build this, slowly build up a real estate portfolio. I don't think that's actually the best way for everybody. I think you should just buy stocks and keep building their portfolio. I don't like being a landlord. So we got towards them, target them, educate them, and then as we provide our updates on a quarterly basis, they get to ask questions, they get to learn. But that's exactly what Warren Buffett did with his shareholders, was educating them. He did it on an annual basis.

Sean Murphy 42:54

That's right.

David Mullins 42:55

So we're just copying the same thing, right? Warren is now the role model. He has a recipe. I'm following that recipe. But I'm intentionally looking for people who look like me. And to educate them. Because we never, most of us didn't grow up talking about money and investments around the kitchen.

Sean Murphy 43:10

That's right.

David Mullins 43:11

I was lucky to grow up with parents that did that and even brought me to their Solomon Smith Barney meetings when they were meeting with their financial advisor. I got to do that. I thought that was normal until I would talk to more friends. I was like, what? Your parents don't know.

Sean Murphy 43:27

Yeah, you don't have David. You know, I was I spent five years at Solomon Smith Barney. So I could have been.

David Mullins 43:37

Yeah. There's a whole generation that has no idea what we're talking about right now. No, no, no.

Roy Richardson 43:41

And you're absolutely right on that. But you know what? I want to go back to something that you said earlier. And you all you said that, you know, growing up in Jamaica and being Jamaican, you're forced to think, you know, naturally and even today, you know, you know, think big, right? And and and achieve greatness. And and and nothing is Nothing is unachievable. We just have to find a path there. And so when I when I read about you being, you know, first I know pre-COVID you had ambitions and dreams about Nasdaq. And and and then and then that sort of took a turn there when the world went upside down. But you were able to come back and actually secure the ticker IRI on NASDAQ. What did that moment represent for you, David?

Impact Investing And Minority Wealth Creation

David Mullins 44:29

You know, we were on a call, so it was interesting because I didn't plan to actually go public. I was keeping it private. And met with a friend of mine here from the Rotary Club who connected me to the founder and CEO of a very large asset manager here in the US, 60 billion under management. And I'm here promoting the fact that Jamaicans send back X billion per year. I just want 0.1% in one year to create a successful business investing in these 15 companies that are undervalued. And the CFO just says, you think you're too small, you need to think bigger. Bigger. Okay. Should we do it for 1%? And he laughed again. He's like, no, no, you misunderstand. He's like, we have a $300 million Latin American Caribbean fund with no exposure to the Caribbean because nothing is publicly traded here in the US. We can't buy the companies. We don't know the companies, don't know the culture. You know the companies, you know the culture. Right. You are listed. We would put 1% of our AUM into your stock. $3 million. And that's one fund under one asset manager. Every fund manager, every endowment for every pension fund that wants exposure to the Caribbean would have to buy your stock because you'd be the only game in town. Just get listed. And that was a Wednesday morning. So I called NASDAQ that I have to do. I said, hey, I need to talk to you about how I get listed. Who do I speak to? And the economy to the head of listing, speak briefly, and then we set up a call the following week. And then he says, Here are your different ways to get listed. Here's the one we recommend. I pick this option for direct listing. Here's how we qualify. We start working towards that. And as we get closer and sign the with the investment bank, now we need to reserve the ticker symbol. And so we reach out to Nasdaq, we're doing a call with Jay. I want to figure out which ticker symbol. I didn't think about it yet. I want to know what's available. And he stops. He says, No, no, no. This is Jay Heller, the head of listings. And he says, Oh no, no, one second, one second. I know the perfect ticker symbol for you. We're going to reserve it right now. One second. That is the same thing. And he's his assistant is on the call and he just tells her, Hey, I just sent you the ticker to reserve. Reserve it right now and then send the confirmation to David. And I was like, No, no, no, you didn't even ask me. And he said, Don't worry. I guarantee you're going to love this one. Right. And then this email that comes across, and I was like, no. I cursed. I was like, no way. How? Wow. What? And the dude said Iri. I was like, wow, that's crazy. So once we got that done, we actually couldn't talk up. We reserved it for over a year and a half before I actually talked about it. We when we announced it, we already had the reservation for almost two years. But we had the form out shut for so long. But I remember I flew down to Jamaica. We can't ask Jay. I was like, hey, so what do you like? Rum or coffee? And he's like, why not both? And I said, Alright, I got you. So I went to Jamaica, did some meetings, I bought an Appleton 21-year-old rum, and I bought a big bag of Jamaican coffee in a little brown crocus bag, right? Jabbling. And I bought him a little book, like 54 Saints from Bob Marley, and I bought him a Bob Marley coffee mug. And I bought one of those fridge magnets that say Iri on it. A fridge magnet that says I read. And then I flew to New York and personally hand-delivered it to Nasdaq's quarters for Jay. So it's not our idea. It's a marketing coup, but it was a reminder again about how big our culture is. Culture. It's a big course. And now I look like the marketing genius. And I told Jay, now I'm giving you credit forever. For me, though, getting the email confirmation that we reserved a ticker symbol. Yes, we still have to go public, but I don't know any other Jamaican that's reserved a ticker symbol at NASDAQ. So I took that as man. The day we announce this until the public reserve this ticker symbol is the day I'm telling people, hey, we're actually trying to do this. And we've gone as reserve a ticker. Like I'm not playing, I'm not here just talking. I'm not on social media mode tonight. We're actually working towards this guys. And that helped to transform the way some people thought of it was, oh, you're you're really trying to do this. I'd say, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like you, you see real. Yeah. Like I'm I'm I'm writing you a check.

Roy Richardson 48:38

Nice, nice. You know, Sean, real quickly, we we've had on previous episodes, we talked about, you know, creating your opportunity. And that that's just an example there of how an opportunity was created. And an opportunity with such meaning, you know, and in the sense that what it represents as a whole. And and credit to Jay for, you know, the two of you. I mean, that that's that's amazing.

Sean Murphy 49:03

Yeah, right.

Roy Richardson 49:05

Incredible. Nice.

Sean Murphy 49:06

Well, listen, let let's um let's talk about your leadership side of this journey. You know, we've talked a lot about your purpose and love every minute of it, and it resonates with me as someone that, like I said, 18, I knew what my purpose was. And I've been, matter of fact, I posted on LinkedIn the the Victor Frankel book this morning, you know, Man's Search for Meaning, right? And I've been a big proponent. And when you know what your why is, you can endure anyhow, right? So there's nothing that no one can do to get me off point, right? And so I've been, I've been, hey, give me my computer and let don't let the door hit you with a sun on shine kind of moments. And it's like, oh, okay, you think you're gonna rattle me? No, that job doesn't fit in my purpose, so you can keep that, and I'm gonna go find my purpose. So anyway, with that being said, you've been committed to a lot of um boards, advisory councils, and mentoring of individuals. What drives that level of involvement by you?

David Mullins 50:01

I benefited from other people pouring into me. And so I didn't want to do what Ray Dalio has said, right? He talks about first you learn, then you earn, then you return. I didn't want to wait until I'm 70 years old to then start retarding. I figured that why not do it right now while I'm in the middle of it and say, hey guys, here's here's what I've had to go through to get here, here's what I've learned, here's what I'm reading now to learn to get better as well. I preferred showing right now rather than telling later on. So that's really what drove me. People poured into me. I think they waited until they were 55 or I don't want to wait. I I would rather just be right now because I don't know how much time I actually have on this planet. That's how I kept looking at that. I don't know what happens next year, but I could share something right now. Okay, well, I guess I should share something right now. Let's let's go.

Roy Richardson 50:52

Nice. And you know, you you it incredible, incredible. You you're so right on that because we tend to, by the way, there's nothing wrong with being 55. So I just want to put that out there.

Securing NASDAQ Ticker “IRI” And Thinking Bigger

David Mullins 51:02

I never said that as the other week. People wait to do that. Nothing wrong with that. I think it's actually imposter syndrome why most people wait until return and start pouring to other people. They in all our heads, we want to hit a certain level of success before we think people will take us seriously. And I don't think that's true. I think what happens is that people take it seriously based on the energy. They can tell the doubt.

Roy Richardson 51:28

Yeah, that's true. No doubt. That's true. And you, you know, you you you spoke earlier about the mentor, teacher, coach, sponsor. And you know, you you've had the incredible opportunity to build an incredible relationship with Mr. Michael Li Chen. And and and that that move, as you said earlier, from a coaching into a sponsorship relationship. You know, what what are some of the defining lessons that he passed on to you?

David Mullins 51:58

Yeah, well, wow. So some key lessons, right? One of them I I love bringing up now is called rhino mode. He talks so now, right? So that's that you want to be a rhino, you want to have thick skin, right? People are going to say what they're going to say. You need to have thick skin, you need to put your head down, and then you're going to charge at that target, right? If you know what you want to do, you have to ignore what people are going to be saying, right? In terms of the negativity, right? Constructive criticism is good, but in general, you have to have thick skin. Put your head down and focus. This is what I need to get done. And know what I need to get done. Let's get it done. So that one was important because I knew, especially as a Jamaican, right? We have a scene in Jamaica, the higher monkey climb is the more embatty show. So in somewhere like a trailer, it's called poppy syndrome, right? Or in Japan, they say the nail that sticks out is the one that gets hammered. We really are really bad at that. In Jamaica, we call it bad mind. When somebody decides to go and elevate themselves beyond the group, we essentially turn them on first and then we want them to fail, and we want to kick them when they're down. So I knew that me saying we reserve a ticker symbol or I want to listen to NASA was going to open up a lot of talking. And I don't want to have to do that. So Mike helped me because I was like, how do you deal with all the negativity that people talk about you? And so he explained that one. I was like, great. Another one for me though is ensuring that we think about our framework, our decision-making framework. So what Mike would say is that you identify a role model, you get the recipe, you don't change the recipe. You can only change the recipe when you exceed that role model. Warren Buffett was his role model, that's mine as well. So that's great. But that recipe now becomes a framework for making decisions, which allows you to control your emotions. Once you have control of the emotions, because they always go back to the framework, then you need access. You need access to capital, you need access to good deals, you need access to people. So he has instilled those things in me and forced me to really think through what is the simplest way, not the easiest way, but what's the simplest way to achieve the goals of listing this business? And when opportunities come, whether to invest in that business or an opportunity to take capital, right, to raise money, how do I decide that those terms are good for me? Because the emotion is, man, somebody wants to write that, wants to write a check for $5 million that allows me to go public right now. Right. Wait, wait, slow down. Don't get all happy. Let's go back to the framework. Does this work? What do they want in exchange for writing that check? Got it. That does not fit the framework or this investment opportunity. This sounds awesome, but let's run it through an investing framework of do we understand the business? Is it domicile in a strong long-term growth industry? Do they prudently manage other people's money? Right, just go through the framework. And if it doesn't check one of the boxes, don't do it. Doesn't matter how exciting it sounds, doesn't matter how amazing the person is at presenting. Framework, not emotion. So Mike has been the one that brings that up. And it's been fun to talk with him. And he he's literally listed in all our SEC filing. That's awesome. He's our main advisor, and he has been eye-opening when it when I got to him for advice. It was cut through, clear as day. Why would you do that? Because he knows the framework. Why would he do that deal? And then I would explain, it's like, no, no, not happening. You're doing that out of, you're considering it. The fact that you're even speaking to me are considering it out of desperation. You need to stop and think. If you had things going the way you want, would you even consider the terms of that deal? If the answer is no, then he shouldn't be considering it today, because it is out of desperation that you're considering. Yeah. That has been extremely helpful. It's somebody that can bounce ideas off. And it he is no longer this coaching, right? He talks about he calls it the five principles of wealth creation, of how wealthy people have created their wealth. Not won it, not stolen it, not inherited it. Right. Look at both people. And I remember saying to him, I said, hey Mike, you know, you're the richest black man in Canada, and black Americans don't know who you are. You need to do more to get yourself. Right.

Roy Richardson 56:03

Yeah.

David Mullins 56:03

And he said, okay, well, what should I do? And I say, you should post more stuff. You should be on Twitter, you should be on Instagram and sharing. So he stuff. He's like, okay, well, send me something to post. So I jump onto Canva and I create the five principles of wealth creation. And then it dawns on me. Well, he's been involved in three companies worth a billion US dollars or more. I'm not calling these principles. There's the five laws of wealth creation. Right. I remember that was beside me, Jamaica. Mike messaged me back. He's like, oh, this looks awesome. Why would you change it from principles to laws? I've been calling it principles since 1979, before you were born. Why would you change it? I said, Mike, you're involving three companies that are worth over a billion US laws. You're about to have a fourth one now. That means it's repeatable. And he's like, yes. And I said, okay, well, it's not called the principle of gravity. It's called the law of gravity. It's truthful, isn't it? And the guy replies, he says, Wow, the teacher is now the student. And I remember I showed that and I was just like, oh, what just happened? What just happened? So it's weird to me that he sends me stuff to read and giving feedback. He'll send a speech, he'll send a presentation to work on and send him back. And I'm just like, I'm I'm not I'm not your parent. I'm still a student. Last year, he year before last, 2024, he had me on stage, June. First time ever we're on stage in Jamaica. He had me present, then he presented, then we did a fireside chat teacher and student on stage for the first time ever. Oh wow. And so I'm thinking, this is awesome. Mom and dad are there, my mother-in-law is there. Right. One says Mike. And of course, most of the questions from moderator are going to Mike. This is a multi-billionaire beside me. I I haven't even gone public yet. And he would ask some questions, and Mike would say, you know, actually, I think that's a better question for David. David, what would you say? And he would throw the question to me, and he kept doing that. And in internally, I'm on camera, so I'm trying not to have the whole world sit at that camera leave him. I just he's really sharing the spot. This is incredible. But yeah, he has said it to me and some of his team members, his COO. I'm his best student ever. I am a student that follows Twitter T. I can finish his sentences. I study Warren Buffett as much as him. And he sees me all over the world. So for me, again, though, that's that's oh, no pressure. Thank you, Mike. No pressure. But it's fun to have a teacher who wants you to outshine him. They're proud that you have taken their lessons and then moved forward. Most teachers, it feels, don't want you to outshine them.

Sean Murphy 58:33

Right, right, right.

David Mullins 58:34

He has never been like that. He's like, no, no, here's my best student, and elevate. So he's the reason why I ended up on Bloomberg. He got me on Bloomberg. When I'm at NASA. That's what I'm talking about. We do a call before every major interview. Mike does a 30-minute call with me where he's the interview and I'm answering, and he helps me to hey, slow down. You remember you're a Jamaican, you get excited when things happen and you talk too fast. Slow down. Here's the answer you should give. Tweet this. You need to actually have a pause right there. You should have a pregnant pause and let it land. I mean, he's coaching me before I go on air for each of these things.

Leadership Frameworks From Michael Lee-Chin

Roy Richardson 59:09

So that's amazing.

David Mullins 59:11

I feel two ladies. I have a second dad, and dad said, Well, he's proud to have a co-father that's that good, right? Because I'm mad. And they they know each other now, so it's awesome that zero jealousy between the two of them.

Sean Murphy 59:25

That's what's uh that's beautiful. But listen, when we look at the the Caribbean diaspora, what opportunities? I know you've mentioned, you know, the dragons. I remember those back in the day when I was at Smith Barney. What opportunities do you think we're leaving on the table? And what do you think we need to do to start doing to unlock that potential?

David Mullins 59:47

Yeah, well, so the biggest ones are related to our culture that we're really leaving on the table. So when you think about the fact that a Bahama Breeze is a Caribbean restaurant here in the United States that's not owned by Caribbean people, wasn't founded by Caribbean people, Margarita Ville, Caribbean again, not owned by, not started by us. Where's the comparison? Where's the one that we've launched? We've done the mom and pop stuff, but where is the big franchise that's Caribbean founded with us owning the because that's our culture. So I don't know.

Sean Murphy 1:00:16

Well, listen, while you're saying that, I just gotta interrupt you for a second because I I think we might have to conclude this because I'm a little upset. My wife's uncle is the creator of the Bahama Breeze concept. Matter of fact, I called him yesterday just to check in on him. I didn't talk to him in a minute, and so I was like, I gotta call my Uncle Johnny and check in on him, say what's up to you.

David Mullins 1:00:38

We need to talk to Uncle Johnny for you saying both tracks and records. That's what I need to do. Wait, I'm not seeing, right? We have not taken advantage of our own culture. It's almost like we don't realize how big our culture is. I look at reggae music, I look at dance hall, I look at soccer, okay. The record label is one. It's VP records. Thankfully, it's it's Jamaicans, but they're in New York. There's more opportunity around that. We look at film coming out of the Caribbean. Okay, well, we build sound stages in the US and they shoot in Atlanta, but they come to Jamaica, they come to Trina, and they come to the Bahamas, they use it for outdoor scenes. There's no sound stage. Okay, but everybody wants to come and shoot in the Caribbean. Let's make it easy for them to shoot down there.

Sean Murphy 1:01:19

You look at what the Asian community has done with, you know, the stuff that they've taken public and national and global.

David Mullins 1:01:28

Look at K-pop.

Sean Murphy 1:01:30

Yep. Yeah, yeah, that's their new stuff. If you look at, you know, what's P. F. Chang's, if my memory, you know, what came out of an Asian family.

David Mullins 1:01:40

That is. Yep. So, and then they create a quick service version as well. That's right. That's right. That's right. To me, it's not about reinventing the wheel. We can't look at what other minorities have done. We just need to do the same thing, but we need to we need to work together though. Right? Why is it that we have how many global party companies do we have? We just haven't turned around and try to work together to go and build something. Everybody wants to do their own thing and be king of a tiny kingdom. Which sounds like Africa as well, right? We're all fighting against each other in these 50 plus countries rather than coming together and say, hey, let's form a block. When I look at the European Union versus CARICOM, the EU is actually focused on working together. CARICOM is busy fighting with each other.

Sean Murphy 1:02:25

Right.

David Mullins 1:02:25

The African Union is busy fighting with each other. We're too tribal in the way. And in some ways, it is our former colonial masters that kind of push that and help that as well. So we need to emancipate ourselves from mental slavery, as Marcus Gavi said, and recognize the value that we're bringing to the table and other people are using, whether it's our pimento or our coffee or bananas or our rice. We need to leverage those things, including our culture, our music. If you want to learn to run fast, you should be coming to Jamaica to do free things. Just realistically. That's that's what you should be doing. I don't I honestly don't understand why why that's not a thing.

Roy Richardson 1:03:07

Well said. Well said. Well said. And so let's venture a little bit. And you talked about, you know, just now about you know us coming together and building blocks, etc. Tell us a little bit about, you know, taking a company public and and why why that's such a massive undertaking and what made you say we're doing this.

David Mullins 1:03:30

If I was to show you a picture of me 10 years ago, you'd say a lot more here. Me too. Mine too.

Roy Richardson 1:03:35

Don't worry. We're brothers. Right? I think we're all against the same side.

Missed Cultural Opportunities And Regional Unity

David Mullins 1:03:40

Right. Even today, I'm getting a message from one of my investors. This person wrote a 100K check asking, just checking on some updates, and they asked for a timeline to go public. I said, I don't think you understand how this works. We don't get to decide when we go public. The SEC ultimately decides it, but we have to qualify, right? We've chosen this path is not an IPO. So we have to raise a certain amount of money, have a certain amount of stockholders' equity, assets minus liabilities, you build a board, pay $100,000 plus for audit, right? Pay $55k to apply to NASDAQ. There's some stuff in there. And then we need to then go public. So I said the timeline is when we have $5 million of stockholders' equity. That is a timeline. So if you are not helping me to get to the five, you need to just wait. Like it's really, even though I've been very clear with the investors and every quarter, we're updating them to say, here's what's needed, here's where we are, here's what's needed, here's where we are. Their brain is just now. There's a timeline. Like we're going public suit. Like, guys, we need to meet this. If you have never had to build out an independent board, coordinate a PCOB audit and the audit prep, how the CFO, the sign, we need to literally go and find directors and officers insurance for people to serve on the board. Otherwise, their personal liability they can get sued. It's like, wow, guys, the easy part is get the money to buy assets. That's actually easy. It's the structural stuff behind the scenes for governance. Good governance. This is a regulated entity. It's going to be the first one, first Caribbean-owned business to list on a major U.S. stock exchange. We'll only be the eighth majority black-owned publicly traded company on a major U.S. stock exchange. Only eight. We have seven right now. That's crazy. It's not easy. If it was easy, everybody would have done it already. So if we stayed private, great. It could work. But to me, that only solves a problem for people based in the US if we stay private and not have to keep replicating that entity in Canada and in the UK. If we're publicly traded, automatically everyone can invest. And it unlocks the pension funds and other institutional investors who do want to get exposure to the Caribbean. And it brings a different level of capital that's more patient to the Caribbean. So I want patient capital that comes home, that can sit there, be invested there, and turn over. For the next 10 years, not go down there and then be extracted every quarter in dividends or every year in dividends. Because that's what's happened in the past. Right? Put together their vehicles, invest down there, whether it's Asia, Africa, or Jim, or the Caribbean, and then they get paid a dividend and they extract all the profits. We need the profits to stay there and keep building. And the benefit, of course, to a country like the US or Canada or UK is that if those economies have the money to stay and grow and people's incomes can move up the chain, there's fewer people needing to migrate. Right. Because they don't need to leave.

Sean Murphy 1:06:35

Totally. Listen. Yeah. Richie and I have been talking about this. A good friend of yours and mine in our podcast. We've been talking about that for 20 years. Before he even got on the World Economic Forum's young entrepreneurs, I was like, I want to be on that board. Um, and with kids got sideways. But let me ask you a question. You know, COVID hit, you had all of these big dreams and plans. You lost commitments of, you know, five million dollars, and and that was probably not easy to take.

David Mullins 1:07:07

Yeah.

Sean Murphy 1:07:08

What kept you focused? So, well, during COVID, it was hard because we really didn't know what was going to happen next. So, so what kept me focused during COVID was that I didn't think that that God would actually plant this idea in my head to have us get this far and then pull the rug from under me if we weren't capable of doing it. So I was like, no, you you gave me a shot. There's no way you really would be that mean. Just there's no way you're that mean. So that was the first thing I kept thinking. Believe I could do this, timing wasn't right. That's fine. No problem. So that was the first one. The second one was having so many people come into me during that time. I started doing a weekly Facebook live show on Wednesday called Island Forward. Oh, so you got creative. Yeah. I couldn't travel. So we we set up right under, we had a two-story house. I set up under the you know, like I call it Harry's Closet. So we set up under the stairs in that little couple hole. And so we got the mic. I got started with the phone first, then the laptop. I just started. I just started doing a Facebook live for two hours talking about the different areas we could grow in Jamaica. Actually, I have the book here. So Jamaica has a Vision 2030 document. It's really thick. Actually, I'm going to show you because it sits right here on my desk. Right? Most people have never read this, but this is Jamaica's national development plan. What would Jamaica need to do to become a developed country by 2030? Obviously, we're not hitting 2030 because we're Caribbean people, we're late with everything.

Roy Richardson 1:08:33

But we can have a goal.

David Mullins 1:08:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And then I would go through and say, all right, guys, here's a plan with agriculture. Here's a plan with health. Here's a plan with education. Every week was a different topic, and then every other week I'd bring a different guest. So I talk about agriculture this week, I bring somebody the following week that's in the farming space. I talk about sports and tourism, I bring somebody in that space. Nice. And it literally turned into a show. People were commenting, asking questions. They were blown away with my knowledge of the Caribbean and the economy and opportunities. And so many people were like, I need to ride a check in the Bloombo. I need to write a check. And that re-energized me. I said, man, I need to go hard again. We need to be a little bit different. I shouldn't depend on the investment bank to go to white Americans to get the five million. I need to go to our crowd, our people, to raise as much of the money as possible. Show the investment banks that hey, there is retail investor interest in this. Get me the rest of the money and come and do it. So that's how we got through COVID. It really was one, there's no way God put me on this path and did this to me. There has to be light at the end of the tunnel. And number two, I started going online and talking on Facebook, right? Put the camera in front of me, and people loved it and started saying, hey, we want to write a check.

Sean Murphy 1:09:51

Awesome. Hey, so listen, raising money is not easy. And for you to do what you did is crazy. I know I tried to raise some money and back with my idea, but I'm also raising money now for independent sponsors, friends that have, you know, ideas and things like that. What's the smartest first step that we should let our listeners that are founders that they should consider when raising money?

David Mullins 1:10:23

So I'll be honest, what I tell everybody they should do is the first thing you should do is write down the ideal term sheet that you want. That's I want to know what are the terms that I am willing to accept to take the money. So if you're going to write a check, this is what I want. Whatever the dollar amount is, whether it's 10 grand, 200 grand, a million, here the terms. Is X dollars per share? Is it a convertible note, a pref? And if you don't know those terms, then you shouldn't be raising money. You need to know those terms. You need to know what a term sheet looks like because that's what somebody's going to give you. So find the ideal term sheet, write it down. And when somebody gives you one, you can compare it. Or if they don't have one, you send them yours. Hey, I'm raising money for the project. I need two million. Here's how it would work. Here's a term sheet. Let them negotiate the term sheet from yours, then. But that's why I'd say write your term sheet first. That's what I think you should do.

Sean Murphy 1:11:17

Got it. Let's lighten it up a little bit. We've been asking you all of this leadership and purpose and all of that stuff. We're going to ask you just some rapid fire questions. So just coffee or tea. Hot chocolate. Hot chocolate. Not even coffee or tea. Hot chocolate. Nice.

David Mullins 1:11:33

Hot chocolate. I don't drink coffee. Imagine that. I'm a Jamaican who doesn't drink coffee. Milo? You know, so it's funny. When I'm in Jamaica, any business meeting I go to, I ask for Milo when I'm in the office. Nice. Okay. Nice. So favorite Jamaican dish.

Roy Richardson 1:11:46

Joe Matalan drinks. Sorry?

David Mullins 1:11:47

All his meetings. Joe Matalan has Milo at all his meetings. Nice. All of them. Nice.

Roy Richardson 1:11:52

Got it. Favorite Jamaican dish.

David Mullins 1:11:55

Oh, Escovige Fish. Escovage fish.

Sean Murphy 1:11:57

Okay. Very cool. A book you would recommend to everyone. We typically ask you, like, give us like your top five books, but we we we we didn't on this time, but give us a book that you would recommend to our listeners.

David Mullins 1:12:11

How to win friends and influence people. Excellent.

Roy Richardson 1:12:14

Nice. Love that book. And what's the most Caribbean dad thing you do?

David Mullins 1:12:21

Go outside barefoot all the time. That's funny. I don't care that the neighbors are out there. I don't care if a toenails are a cut. I'm barefoot. I'm barefoot.

The Hard Road To Going Public

Roy Richardson 1:12:35

That's awesome. That's awesome. So let's shift a little bit into reflection time here. Sean, take it away.

Sean Murphy 1:12:42

Yeah. Yeah. You said you don't believe in work-life balance that you believe in. Work hard, play hard. What does that look like for you? Help us out.

David Mullins 1:12:50

So it means that when I'm working, I'm focused on getting this thing done. Here's what I need to get done by this time. Here's my day. When the day's over, I'm not working anymore. I pause, my brain is off here, and I can go and do something else. So whether it's going out to play ball, right? This is Thursday evenings. I tend to have football training. I'm not in Jamaica right now, so I do have trading. Right? But that's what I mean by work hard, play hard. When I'm doing it, I'm actually focused on doing that thing. I'm not multitasking. I'm not half you go and you do it, right? A football match is on Sunday. I'm there, I'm playing my match. I'm with the guys, and that's what I'm doing. So I I think that's to me, that's the best way. I want to be fully present in whatever I'm doing. So present in work, not multitasking, present in the sports or with the family, and not doing separate calls while I'm at Disney World with the kids. I'm here with them.

Roy Richardson 1:13:40

Nice. You know, you you you just said present there, and you reminded me of when we hosted the event here in Orlando where where you were the the keynote for you. And you said something in that where you you said that your your dad said presence over presence over presence. Right. Yeah. And that that that always stuck with me, you know, and and but it's so so true. And so, David, how do you protect your energy in a world that pulls you in every direction? I mean, when I look at your at your bio here in this list, and I'm like, holy mackerel. I mean, how do you how do you how do you protect your energy?

David Mullins 1:14:17

Oh, well, now I have a chief of staff, so Cheryl handles that stuff and deals with the protection, but up until I had a chief of staff, it really came down to me coming up with a little matrix for myself. So we thought about framework. And so I decided that I can't do more than five things in my personal life, and I can't do more than five things in the business life, right? And then no more than five boards. And I I came up initially, it was four things that I looked at and I said, okay, well, I need to grade them low, medium, and high. So this is, for example, how much risk is involved in this thing that this person has asked me to do, how much of my time is required, how much capital is required, not from me, just in general, for it to work. And then what's the potential payoff? And then I realized that that still wasn't good enough, right? And I looked at, okay, there are two things missing. A big one for me is how much do I enjoy it and the people that I'm going to work with is actually one of the most important things that I needed to think about. And then I can only do five. So if I have five already and a new one comes to me, I grade it. I grade that one and then I compare it to the existing five. And if it's better than one of the five, I get rid of it and change. Right? Just always focus on being ruthless with I cannot do more than five. I chose five. Pick whichever number it is. I realize I couldn't do five things in terms of sports, personal life, hobbies-wise. So I can't play football and the tennis and the golf and the no swimming. It actually will kill me. And I'm I'm older, it takes longer to recover. I'm not Superman anymore. So I was like, okay, I can do three things competitively. What are the things I'm going to really go hard at? So it's football and swimming right now, and I will pick one now. I just turned 45, so I'll pick one thing. It's probably going to be golf because we just we play a lot of golf, obviously, in the finance world. But that means I need to get even better. And I don't want to just be a bogey golfer. Let me actually go under the lessons again and let's take it seriously. For me, it's not about playing the thing, it's about trying to get better at the thing. Whatever I'm doing, I want to get better at it because the better I'm at, the better I'm I am at that is the more I enjoy it.

Roy Richardson 1:16:25

Yeah.

David Mullins 1:16:27

The better you are at something is the more you enjoy that. That's right. That's right. That's right.

Sean Murphy 1:16:30

That's true. Well, let me ask you if you could pick, I want to talk to you about uh, you know, something that we ask is about a board of advisors, right? We know that Michael Lee Chan is someone who's near and dear to you, and uh I've followed him just peripherally for a long time. And if you could pick anyone from any point in the past who could be on your dream of advisory boards, who would it be? Steve Jubbs. That is a very, very common, man. We get that. Yeah, we get that we get that one all the time. That's and when we start going twice a month, I was listening Rob, when we start going twice a month, we're probably gonna get it every we're gonna get it twice a month.

David Mullins 1:17:10

Fine. We can't change. I can't give you some money. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Sean Murphy 1:17:14

That's just a testament to who he is. Keep going. He was, yeah.

David Mullins 1:17:18

The guy was incredible in his focus and his ability to present, his ability to motivate people, even if they hated him, he still got the best out of people. He changed the world in multiple ways, not just through Apple, but with Pixar as well. So, yeah, Steve Jobs for me is is essentially almost like a Zen master.

Sean Murphy 1:17:34

Right.

David Mullins 1:17:34

In in his ability to narrow your focus. Very, very much. I would love. I had the opportunity to be in his office. He wasn't there though. So I did get to see his office. Well, he he wasn't in the office when I got in. Anybody else? Yeah, Richard Branson. Okay. Yeah, you've mentioned without a doubt, Richard.

Sean Murphy 1:17:53

Got it, got it, got it. Well, that that this is a perfect lead into the legacy as we get closer to wrapping this thing up. What legacies do you hope to leave behind for your family and for the desperate the diaspora and the community you work that you're working back?

David Mullins 1:18:11

You know what? I'll go into the something. I've never done this on a podcast before, but I want I want you guys to be the first ones to get this. So I have my legacy written down. Very good in my plan.

Roy Richardson 1:18:22

Wow.

COVID Setbacks, Island Forward, And Resilience

David Mullins 1:18:23

Right? And I did update it for age 45 to 50. But this was a plan I wrote when I was 15 years old, and I update it every five years. And so my legacy here it says, I literally wrote an intended obituary. That's what it says. My intended obituary. That's what it says in there. So it says David P. A. Mullings made a dent in this universe through his inspiration and help of millions of people, through his foundation, charitable contributions, and approach to policy making. He represented a forgotten era of service of oneself, where politicians and business people truly cared about the good of society more than just their personal gains. Even with his public work, he was always present in the lives of his three children and a loving partner. He leaves behind a legacy that few may live up to, but all should strive to attain. That is my intended legacy.

Sean Murphy 1:19:12

Very, very cool. That's awesome. Wow. Wow.

David Mullins 1:19:14

And and you know you can live the life so you can write that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that's live that life now.

Roy Richardson 1:19:22

Nice. And so let's talk a little bit about the legacy of Blue Mahoe Capital. You know, 10 years from now, what is what does look like? What does success look like with with what you're doing?

David Mullins 1:19:34

Yeah, so so 10 years from now, we would want our investors to gotten at least an 8x return in the movement of the share price. An 8x in capital appreciation helped to finance 100,000 affordable houses in the Caribbean that are climate resilient. We'd have contributed to food security in the region, but most importantly, we would have changed the way that the Caribbean was looked at as an investment opportunity, not as an add-on to Latin America. Because right now it's Latin America and the Caribbean. We want the Caribbean to be seen as its own region that is different from Latin America and worthy. And that we would have played a role in changing the way the world sees this emerging market region and understands what we bring to the world. That would be our legacy, is getting them to talk about us differently, deploy capital to us separately from the Spanish-speaking region, Latin America.

Sean Murphy 1:20:26

Well, David, man, this has been incredible, fantastic. There's so many other words that I can say that in that same vein. And so we actually, you know, this has gone on a lot longer um than we normally do. And, you know, it's just rich, rich, rich, rich content. Let's wrap up here.

Roy Richardson 1:20:45

Roy? Yeah, no, David, thank you for sharing your story with us. And I will say this, it's it's truly an honor to first and foremost, I would say, sit together with a fellow, you know, Miami Hurricane, but also a fellow Caribbean islander who is so passionate about, you know, what the Caribbean should look like, or the Caribbean should look like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? As as a as and and wanting to put our people, you know, at the at the very top. And and not not necessarily and what I like what you said earlier about in the sense that, you know, there's always the money that flowed back to the islands from those who went on, but it was really money going back into families that was quickly spent versus investments and how can you grow that money, grow the opportunity, improve life, improve, you know, for the people in the region as a whole. So thank you for everything that you're doing. Thank you for being you. I thank you for being here with us today, and much appreciated and and big up.

Sean Murphy 1:21:49

Yeah.

David Mullins 1:21:49

Man, I I appreciate you guys. Thank you for the opportunity. I cannot wait. Yeah. Listen to the comments and the feedback. And just one person saying that they were positively impacted by this for me is is a win. When I totally agree.

Sean Murphy 1:22:05

Uh, again, thank you, David, for sharing your story for our listeners. You know, follow David, follow Blue Moho. I know he puts out a lot of incredible positive content, you know. So very active on social media. Until next time, keep leading with purpose.

David Mullins 1:22:21

Yeah.

Roy Richardson 1:22:22

Amen. Thank you. Amen. One love, guys. Thank you, guys. Thanks, everyone, and we'll catch up next time. Hi, I'm Roy Richardson, host of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. Are you a business owner or leader of a successful business? If yes, we'd love to have you as a guest on our program. Our goal is simple: we provide a platform for leaders to share their experiences to benefit others. We want to hear your story, how you got started, the challenges you faced along the way, and your passion today. If this sounds like you or you know someone who fits these criteria, then be sure to get in touch with us by visiting our website linked in the episode description below. Also, don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and click the notification bell to be notified when our next episode goes live. Or if you'd rather listen to us during your car rides, you can also follow us on your favorite audio channel using your podcatcher. Thanks again, and remember, keep crushing it.