EP.28 - Winning Without a Net: Tony King on Independent Leadership in a Consolidated World

What really happens after you buy a successful business?

In this episode, we sit down with Tony King, President of Power Bolt and Tool, for a raw, tactical conversation about ownership, margins, culture, and leadership in industries dominated by private equity.

Tony’s path spans corporate consulting, software leadership, entrepreneurship, and eventually SBA‑backed acquisition. After building and scaling a technology consulting firm from scratch, Tony stepped into full ownership of a Florida‑based construction supply company—only to discover that buying a healthy business can feel harder than starting one from zero.

In this episode, Tony breaks down:

• Why ownership hits differently than entrepreneurship
• How margin leakage quietly kills businesses
• Where leaders lose money without realizing it
• Why culture must be defined before growth
• The realities of competing against private equity–backed giants
• Why AI is powerful—but relationships still win
• What independent operators must master to survive consolidation

Tony also shares deeply personal lessons on resilience, faith, servant leadership, and the mental load leaders carry when there is no safety net.

If you’re an entrepreneur, operator, or executive navigating growth, acquisition, or high‑pressure leadership, this episode delivers real‑world insights you won’t hear in textbooks or highlight reels.

Connect with the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast Hosts:

• LinkedIn: Roy Richardson
• LinkedIn: Sean Murphy

If you found this episode of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast inspiring, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform. This way, you won't miss out on future episodes featuring other dynamic business leaders.

Check out our website here, and make sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel.

The Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast is brought to you by Aurora InfoTech, a Cybersecurity Firm that serves the information security needs of small—and medium-sized businesses.

Transcript

Episode Kickoff And Sponsor

Roy Richardson 0:03

Hello, I'm Roy Richardson, and it's the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. Welcome back to another episode of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. I'm your host, Roy Richardson, joined by my insightful co-host and first adving board, Sean Murphy. Sean, great to have you here with us today, brother.

Sean Murphy 0:30

Well, I am ecstatic as usual to be here. And thank you for carrying the water the last couple of times. I know I was not on the last show, so I thank you for doing a heavy lift in the last couple of shows, and I'm looking forward to that.

Roy Richardson 0:45

Well, you know, you you you were always there with us in spirit, and you know, you're my wingman, so where I go, you go and vice versa. So we know you were there, man. I felt you. I felt you. I'm I'm really excited about this conversation today because it's for leaders operating without a safety net. Our guest today is Tony Fresh and PowerBook and Tools, a Floud-based construction supply company competing against national guidance in an industry, increasingly dominated by private equity. Tony's journey runs through consulting, software leadership, and ultimately ownership built benefits from scratch scale teams, and in 2022 steps fully into ownership through an SPA-backed acquisition discovering that even when you buy a four-come company, it still feels like starting from zero. Because in this world, the pennies actually matter. Before we jump through on that, today's episode, as always, is brought to you by Aurora InfoTech, helping organizations grow with confidence by protecting the systems and data they depend on. So innovation never comes at the cost of trust. Tony, really glad to have you here with us.

Tony King 2:03

Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it, Roy and Sean. What an what an intro. You guys made me sound glorious. I mean, to me, when I look back, it's not that impressive. But uh but thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.

Underdog Drive And Career Risks

Sean Murphy 2:17

Very, very good. Well, Tony, well, as as Roy said, welcome to the show. A lot of folks in this community know me. I am very excited about life and about business. And your firm is the type of business that really excites me. So your story sits right at the intersection, man, of grit, numbers, sales, leadership, and reality. And I said, let's get into it and share with our people who you are and what you do. So you said as we were preparing for this that you've only had one formal job interview in your entire career. I don't know how it happened. Right, right, right. But it's it's like most of the jobs that I have. I knew somebody that that that's gotten me there. And and when I left the bank a year ago, there are a lot of opportunities and and deals that uh they all come through this type of scenario here. But you describe yourself as a little risky, a little ADHD, part sales guy, part numbers guy. When did you realize that that mix was actually a strength and not a liability? Maybe it's still liability.

Speaker 3 3:27

You know, I'm not sure. I mean, I I've all I've always felt that I was kind of the underdog and you know, always felt like I had I had to do better than the next guy. And oh when did it not become a liability? I guess I just started harnessing it more and just trying to to be the person I am. And you know, when I first me and the other guys, we started Xirion back in 2005. I at that point in time I just come out of Hughes, Hughes Supply. And you know, that was a corporate culture where you had to be the first to the office and you had to leave the latest and all that kind of stuff. And it at some point in there I realized I was like, man, why am I trying to impress everybody? Like I gotta I gotta figure out like when is it best for me? Like what do how best do I work? So I just started to to dissect it very early on to figure out when I was best and what I did best and just kind of just tried to work harder than the next guy. I mean, like when I when I think back about only being like one formal interview, I also think about like my uncle. My uncle used to be the vice president of Orlando Utilities Commission. You may know him actually, Doug Spencer. Anyways, he told me a long time ago, he's like, it's not who it's it's like who you know that helps get you where you need to be, right? But it's how hard you work that keeps you there. And it w I just always worked harder than everybody else. And sometimes that that risk and that sales guy, that ADHD, just it just helped help me in that situation. I just worked really hard.

Sean Murphy 5:00

Got it. Well, listen, I I gotta throw a curveball at you uh or at our segment. Early for a curveball, Sean. Right. Hey, listen. So so tell me what made you think that you're the underdog?

Speaker 3 5:13

I guess just all growing up, I just always uh I just always felt that. I just always Where'd you grow up at? I grew up in Oklahoma.

Sean Murphy 5:20

Small town, Oklahoma, Oklahoma City?

Speaker 3 5:23

No, small town, 25,000 kids. I mean 25,000 people, sorry, not kids. 25,000 people, you know, two golf courses, nowhere to eat out at night, you know, one high school, two junior highs. You you rode your bike across town.

Sean Murphy 5:36

25,000 and y'all had two golf courses in Oklahoma? That's it. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 5:43

No, it was only two, and you just made them work. That was it. So yeah, I just I just always grew up I you know, I'm the middle of three three boys, right? So I'm the I'm the forgotten one, I'm not the firstborn, and I'm not the young one, right? I'm the I'm in between. So I just always felt like I always had to do better, and I always felt like I was not quite I mean it's not the right way to say it, but not quite good enough, you know. Like you just always felt like you had to do better. And at some point I figured out that that was also the chip on my shoulder, too. And when I figured that out, then that was helpful.

Sean Murphy 6:20

See, see, see, I love America, right? Again, I love society. I love I if I tell people all the time, if I could go back to college, I wouldn't get a business degree, I would get a psychology degree to really understand people. And and the beautiful thing about my career is I worked for the truest leadership institute, you know, when I started my career back in '95. As a stockbroker, we used to like go to sleep listening to Tony Robbins, right, around mindset and all of that stuff. But this is kind of fascinating. Right. Jeff Gallo was on the on our podcast last year, and he was the youngest of like five, I think. And he got the tip on his shoulder because he was the youngest. And he's like, Man, I used to have to scrap with my brothers and sisters to eat. And so it's amazing how people figure out what's that purpose, that why of getting ahead. So interesting.

Speaker 3 7:14

Yeah, here's a funny story. Is uh so back in college, you know, I went to a small Baptist college in Oklahoma, and I was in a business policy class. Like I to I only have an undergrad. I got an undergrad in just general business, and I had this business policy class, and I had two friends in the class with me. And it was like half your grade was on this little team. Uh, there's three of us on the team, right? And half your grade was with this project that you had to do. And these these two that were friends of mine, they were on my little three three-person team. They decided that they were gonna try to get me off their team. And they went to the professor, uh I didn't even know it, but they went to the professor and they said that they said that they didn't want me on on your team on their team, and I'm like, I get called into the professor's office, I have no idea what's about to happen. And I'm like, yeah, what's what's going on? And they're like, these Jeff and and Carrie, I think is who it was. They they said they don't want you on your on their team. And I'm like, what do you mean? And they're like, well, we we just think that you're just like you you're gonna kind of just coast through it. You're not gonna get you're gonna try to get an A. And I was like, whoa.

unknown 8:32

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 8:34

I was like, all right, so they they literally threw me under the bus to the professor, right? And tried to pick it on a different team. And what was crazy about it is the professor's name was Dr. Craig, and Dr. Cragen looked at both of them and said, Okay. And he asked me if I had anything to say, and I said, I'm not sure what to think at this point. I just got blindsided. And then he looks at them both dead and dead straight and says, says, you know, he said, if you want to switch teams, you can, but here's the deal Tony's gonna be your boss one day. Right, right, right, right. And he was saying it figuratively, obviously, but he was basically saying, like, look, you're you're probably making a mistake here, and he's gonna be important one day. And I couldn't believe it. It was like it was like a moment I was like, that's it. I'm going out and kicking everybody's butt because you know my own friends try to kick me off their team in school. And I was just average in school, so I don't blame them because I was like just a basic B student, right? So, anyways.

Roy Richardson 9:33

But so so I gotta ask you on that. Did did their resumes ever end up coming across your desk?

Speaker 3 9:38

No, they didn't actually. They didn't, you know, they probably interviewed a lot. I mean, I I just I didn't ever I think I prepared my resume maybe once I didn't ever have to do it. I just got I had a good nice track.

Roy Richardson 9:52

So nice, nice. Well, you know, that's that's perfect setup here. Let's I want to go into a quick light lightning round here before we rewind and start telling your story. You know, you you you mentioned before about thinking. What's the best hours of day for real thinking for you and and where does your best business ideas tend to show up?

Speaker 3 10:14

Yeah, I mean, I that was something I had to give myself grace for in the beginning too, because when I first started the entrepreneur journey, it was not a big thing to figure out you know the work hours and all that kind of stuff. It was still you needed to be first and last kind of thing. And so I realized that I work really well in the afternoons, in the mid to late afternoon, and then later in life, uh, you know, after when you really get into the entrepreneur journey, you realize that early mornings are pretty good too. So I I function really, really well and get a lot of stuff done from I'd say like six to nine in the morning, and then I get a lot of stuff done really oddly, like from three to six in the evening. So like I have this like six-hour window that I probably accomplish threefold what I get done in the other like mid-morning or around lunchtime, I'm like I'm barely even functioning.

Sean Murphy 11:08

Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. All of those YouTube videos and TikToks have you seen you doing at lunchtime and dancing and yeah, that's exactly it.

Speaker 3 11:20

When you want to do the recording, right? And so like I always schedule stuff on purpose that like is less important for the business side. It's important, but not quite as like particular. I I schedule that stuff in my kind of weak moments because that when I schedule that kind of stuff in the weak moments, it forces me to double down in those times because other people are keeping me accountable, right? I have the the video team shows up and they require a lot. So yeah, so anyways, I do that on purpose to schedule that at the time when you know I'm just kind of relaxing.

Sean Murphy 11:52

Got it, got it, got it. Well, not that we're warmed up and we we took it back to college for a minute. You went to Oklahoma Baptist, right? True, yeah. Yes, yeah. Let's go back to the business part of that.

Xerion Origin And Early Growth

Roy Richardson 12:04

Roy, go ahead. Yeah. So Tony, tell us, you know, what pulled you into business in the first place? And when did it stop feeling like a job and started feeling like like a calling?

Speaker 2 12:19

Oof.

Speaker 3 12:20

When did it start feeling like a calling? Man, it was it was well into the Xerion days when it really started to feel like, okay, this is this is like a thing. This is I'd been in there for five years or so, and it definitely started to kind of settle in. But up until that point, even when I was at Hughes, it just I always I I always envisioned myself being in the on the corporate ladder. You know, like I said, I wasn't an A student, I wasn't great in school, but I worked, I literally outworked everybody. I outworked people in uh like I worked construction jobs in the summer, I worked at a movie theater, I worked retail, like I just outworked everybody all the time and everything that I did. And uh so I always envisioned the corporate ladder, but at some point I I started to realize that the entrepreneur journey, which is probably about five years then or so, I was like, oh, this is uh this has a lot of legs here, and this is very, very fitting to me because I just personally I need a little bit of chaos. Like I I I operate well with a little bit of like lack of logic, and you know, it doesn't quite make sense, but I'm willing to get my hands dirty. So it w at that point, it's somewhere around maybe five years in, it started to kind of settle in that this is this is a thing and this is this is gonna be a good good direction for me.

Roy Richardson 13:43

That's amazing. And you know, you said five years in, and and you actually started a Zareon Group just three years out of college and grew it to more than 550 customers. At the time, you were you intentionally building a company or were you just solving the next problem in front of you?

Speaker 3 14:01

Young and dumb. No, no, no. What happened was at Hughes, uh, when it was Hughes Supply, I got hired. I had a couple internships with them, came down here, lived with my uncle for a couple of summers, and then I got they offered me a this guy, Jack Whitwom, he offered me a job. Basically, he walked by my desk and saw me as an intern. He's like, Hey, you want to come back and work for me? He didn't even ask me anything. He just said, You want to work for me? And he said that he would pay me to travel, and I was like, I'm in. So I literally took the job unknowing what I was going to get into. And then after I graduated, I flew down and moved down and didn't didn't go back to Oklahoma. But what was I saying though? Anyway, so I that's how I started, that's how that all happened. I started working at Hughes. So we were on this conversion team where we were shutting down like Hughes bought up all these independent supply houses, and they were called the diversified supplier, right? Like they had a plumbing division, an HVAC division, a fire fabrication division, electrical, all this stuff. So it had all these different companies, and there was like 50 of them, and they all ran on a different ERP. And back in the day, the ERP was called an enterprise resource planning, right? And an ERP is like SAP, Oracle, a very small version of an ERP that all of us know what it is, is QuickBooks, right? It runs your sales, your purchase order, your inventory, all this stuff, right? So this program called Eclipse was the one that Hughes Supply chose to convert everybody to. And so I was on that team along with one of your guests before, Alonzo Williams. He was he was my boss. He was my boss. Nice. And so I worked for Alonzo, and we were on a team of of people that travel the country teaching people how to sh train end users how to use the system. And in doing so, we shut down 45 systems. So we shut down 45 systems, put on just we installed just two, and that happened over three and a half years. So I get done to the three at the end of the three and a half years, and I basically am not gonna have a job because the job was done, right? So I could either go out to a branch and be a branch manager, I could go be a sales guy, I could, you know, I could join the corporate life and do all that thing. And me and Brad Riley at the time, which also worked for Alonso, we we were at this users group conference in Orlando, and these other users on that system, which were all from all across the country, they kept trying to hire us to take us away from Hughes. You know, at the time, what am I making? 35 grand a year? And so they're trying to offer us like 55 or 60 or whatever, and we're like our eyes are like saucers, right? We're like, this is amazing. We're like, well, at some point during that time, me and Brad were sitting there talking to each other, and we're like, well, maybe we should just do this on our own. And so that's when we had this idea, and we went to Alonzo and to went to Jack because we had no idea what to do, right? Uh how to do we we there was no forward thinking that says, oh, we need to go start a business. That was not like it was we had no we had no realm for what that is, so all we said was maybe we should do this on our own and let's go talk to Jack and Alonzo. Well, fast forward through that, Jack had convinced at the time Eclipse was owned by a company called Intuit, same people on QuickBooks. He can Jack somehow convinced the HD supply guys, aka Hughes, right, and Intuit to fire our whole department, branch 3802, which that was the Alonzo was the manager of, and and rehire us under this other name called Xerion, right? Zereon Group. And he convinced them to subcontract the whole deal. So we basically invoiced Intuit and Intuit invoiced HD. And so we started this company in August of 05 with 14, 15 people, right? That just got fired. And and I mean we had we started the company with one one account, which was HD Supply. And no, I had no business, didn't have any forward thinking for that. It was over a period of the next three, four, or five years that I started to figure out some more things. And anyway, the runway really started to happen in 2010, is when it kind of started to take off.

Roy Richardson 18:21

I would say, I mean, being a person in technology, you know, consolidating 40-something different business operating systems into two over, you know, the short span that you guys had. Wild. That that that's that's incredible. That's incredible.

Speaker 3 18:38

I mean, we were on the the the end user side, so it was like 30, 35 of us, but there was a whole project team that was behind us and programmers and stuff. The the whole team that did all the conversions was probably 70 people. It was a big team, yeah. And it was a lot of project management. A lot, it was a very, very significant deal.

Sean Murphy 18:57

I mean W were they all here in Orlando or were they domestic or what what's the uh everybody was domestic, yeah.

Speaker 3 19:03

I mean, they just all came from divisions that Hughes had purchased. Most of it was most of it was here in Orlando, but then there were other, you know, all the ones that were the corporate corporate was here, right? Which I the IT department was here, and that was where everybody was centrally located. But then a lot of people traveled throughout the country. I mean, I spent months in other states, months.

Scaling Lessons From Software Leadership

Sean Murphy 19:26

Yeah, got it. So you later became president of a US division of focus software. Yeah. What did that experience teach you about scale? You know, that's the scale is the big thing that I hear in the business market today, scaling up business as quickly as possible. What did the ownership later force you to learn the hard way?

Speaker 3 19:49

Well, focus was so that kind of flourished when, let me see, in 2012 or so, something like that. Yeah, 2011. After I had bought out my other partners in 2010 and Zion, I I started changing the way we went to market. And so as as a consulting company, and I started doing a lot of these partnerships and integrations and different work for third parties. And one of those was Focus Software, and the owner, Miles Glacier, he was from Australia, and he called me one day and just said, Hey, like can you help me do this integration with Eclipse to our software? And I said, Yeah, sure. So I did one and we worked on it, and we kind of made a little set of programs for it, and then we did a couple more, and you know, we did probably I don't know, 40 or 50 of them. And then he just he liked he liked working with me and our team and stuff like that. And so at some point he had asked me to run the sales division, and then I ended up running their US division for a couple of years. But as far as scale, I mean, the software world versus where we're at is just so different. Like certain services and there's software, and then there's like physical goods, and they're all three in vastly different categories when it comes to scale. Like focus was a subscription model, and you know, it's a software model, so like it's just a different way to go about it and build it. Like you you need new clients and new additions, right? But it kind of gets becomes an engine of itself after a while, even if you're doing light like licenses and then you know annual recurrence and stuff. But in our space, the the hard goods distribution is just so so much different. It's and it's way hard to me, it's way harder to scale it. Like when you have software, you can scale it one way. When you have services, like a podcast service or something, it's just way different to scale that versus when you need to scale like I'm selling a bit and a blade. How do you what am I gonna do? I can't like multiply that or put a subscription service on it on like a a blade, right?

Sean Murphy 22:00

That's why private equity is buying them all, right? Because that's the that's the the fast way of scaling.

Speaker 3 22:04

Yeah, you can do it by p here a lot of the doing it because they need the people, right? They need the people or and the customers. And the fastest way to do that is to gobble them up. Yeah. Yeah. You can't there's not really a way to like do double and triple the growth without gobbling up other people.

Sean Murphy 22:22

Well, you you've touched on a couple of points that at some point and uh down the road we're gonna touch on. One, we touched a little bit on it, that I hope that the listeners take away from this one, about that chip on your shoulder. And two, you've taken huge risk, right? The guy walks past your desk and you could have been like, ah, you know, your mind could have nope, uh, it it could have been a scary moment. And then, you know, the the other scary moment I I would imagine is when you brought your partners out. And it's probably uh a moment where uh it's now on you, not on Jack and Alonzo who are were senior to you and and you had this uh this other person. So there's four of y'all that that that came with the organization. So to me, man, those are those are very pivotal moments, I think, in your journey that I hope the listeners take. Again, you had a chip on your shoulder and and and took some risk there. But anyway, you said buying PowerBoat felt harder than starting from scratch. Why did ownership hit differently than entrepreneurship the first time around?

Speaker 3 23:29

Well, I didn't know what I was doing the first time around. And I had Jack, which was very, very experienced, right? And I also was young and had no kids. And I mean, what do I have to lose? And later in life, you start to take a more calculated risk and you know what you're you kind of know what you're doing, but it's just this one's this one's way harder than the last one because there's so much more on the table. It's so much more you know, you just have so much more responsibility in life. I I really admire the entrepreneurs that decide to do it and really get after it late in life because you didn't have an opportunity when you were young and less really less risk. You have a lot of time to recover. But when you start doing it later in life, you have less time to recover. Like you don't really, you can't you can't mess up as much. So now there's just so much more on the line that you just you just don't have time to mess up.

Sean Murphy 24:29

Let me ask you this. You mentioned it yourself, and again, I know Roy believes in this, and I am a huge believer. Again, you talked about not having a resume, and I said that all of my jobs came through relationships, and the resume was just a formality. That was the only reason that I I I had it, because it was a formality. But do you think that at this stage, if you have the proper team and you can really leverage your relationships, that it would make it easier?

Speaker 3 24:56

I don't know. I got a lot of lot of team members and a lot of relationships, and it doesn't it it doesn't seem to make it necessarily easier. It's still it's I mean it does help. I mean, you just I think what's helpful for me right now is I've been doing the entrepreneurial journey for, I guess what is it, so 21 years now, right? And or almost 21 years, and it you just have a better idea of what the the menu is, right? You just you kind of have an idea of what you need to be doing, what you don't need to be doing, what it's like. And in the very beginning, you're just kind of ignorant. You just don't really know.

PowerBolt Jobsite Delivery Competitive Edge

Roy Richardson 25:33

Oh, and and you said something there earlier. So my company today is my my second technology company, previous one was a telecom. And and I I I often tell people that you know it was really successful with that, having success with this company, but different levels of success, right? That first journey of mine was I would say colour effective tools to do that because we were bringing something new now with cybersecurity working fast, and 55 years of 50 seconds for rather than targeted first because we've got because we not like this that we not allowed for now, right? And if we have things that we can talk about school and expensive, if we've got cool full stages. So let's talk a little bit, and I want to talk a little bit about the stuff we're leading today. Powerful school. And how a 25% independent operation competes against national players with massive capital.

Speaker 3 26:44

Very carefully. Yeah, so we are a uh we are a brick and mortar hard goods supply house. We we supply job site supplies, mostly I would consider consumables, right? Things that they need residually, right? And we deliver them on-site to different jobs throughout the throughout Florida, but mostly from I-4 South. I mean, we do go up to Jacksonville and stuff too, but we have four brick and mortar locations, and we sell anything from hand tools and and power tools to safety to bits, blades, fasteners, and generally anything anybody wants delivered that is you know needed on a construction site. Like we we ship pallets of water daily to our job sites. And you would think there would be a more efficient way to deal with water on the job sites, but no everybody does deals with bottled water. And so we we ship that. I mean, we we deliver zip ties, we deliver caution tape, deliver duct tape, power tools, you name it. So, and we we carry all the major brands that all our our big competitors do. And then, you know, a lot of people, a lot of my friends and family, they're like, what's the difference between you and Home Depot or Lowe's? And yeah, I mean, they they carry all this a lot of the same material, not all of it, but they carry a lot of the same material. But you know, when you have, let's say, Sam on the fourth floor of a building that's being built in on the Space Coast or in Titusville or wherever, right? And he he or she needs a roll of duct tape, 10, 10 bundles or a bundle of strut, some nuts, some washers, and oh, by the way, I need some water, right? He can't call, you can't call Uber, you can't call Lowe's, you can't he doesn't have a credit card to it's not like he has a card, it's got to be purchased on account, and there's only you know, there's a minimal number of companies that are in the space that will deliver to all those job sites like that. And so you're the Uber Eats of the Kinda. Yeah, but we're but there's a lot there's many of us that do it, right? And there's some really big guys do it, and you probably see them drive around town, but it's not like an endless number of them, right? Like you can't, we we ever in fact a lot of us buy from each other, right? We we buy from our our competitors, they buy from us because it's like this big cohesive thing of just trying to service all these customers. So, anyways, job site supplies with delivery is kind of where we sit.

Sean Murphy 29:24

What what what does excellent look like for you?

Speaker 3 29:28

What does excellent look like? Yeah. I mean, it's a hard business. We uh the customers really need perfection. You know, when you have a concrete pour that's happening in the middle of the night or at 6 a.m. on a Monday, they need the stuff and they need it when they need it. And they might have five guys there, they might have 30. And if you don't have their their trowels there or their shovels there or anything like that, then you can hold up a job significantly. And in our world, we don't get we don't get the the POs in the beginning when that when they first get awarded the job, right? We get POs as they need it, so the day before when their hair's on fire.

Sean Murphy 30:13

Yeah, right, right, got it. Yeah, sounds like my industry. Right. Right. Sounds like mine as well.

Speaker 3 30:20

Yeah. So you just so excellent. They expect perfection. They expect what they asked for when they asked for it with the right price and no back orders. Right.

Roy Richardson 30:31

It's a lot that your your customers turn to you as the you know the one-stop cop for all their let's call it their field needs, right? And and for construction, I mean you're you're you are delivering orders supply tape. I mean you are going down to that and picturing the diver. I don't know I don't you know it's it's that that does a lot for itself there, Tony. You know, when when it comes to construction supply and the distribution business and that and that field, uh what what's the biggest misconception that people have?

Speaker 3 31:07

I think sometimes they just maybe that it's easy or that there's a lot of money in it. It's just the margins, it's very di it's difficult. You know, you have you have some very sophisticated customers out there, some very sophisticated vendors, and it's it is a a product and pricing war at times because you know you have these really big vendors that sell into Home Depot and Lowe's and all that stuff, and all of our competitors, right? And it's like, how are you gonna differentiate yourself from the next guy when they have the exact same product? Like there's some white label stuff that's going on in our business. Yes, there's some of that, and there's some proprietary stuff, but in general, you're really selling, you have to figure out on the daily like how you compete against the next guy selling the same widget. And it's not it's not straightforward. It's very, very difficult.

Margin Leakage Pricing And Tariffs

Sean Murphy 32:03

Got it. Well, I got an I got another question. It it sounds like a negative question, but it's it's not. It's about the business, just so we can get our audience to see more about how to run the business. It's not just about leadership and encouragement, but you've been very clear about margin leakage will kill you. Where do most operators lose money without realizing it?

Speaker 3 32:24

I mean, I think people you lose I have two, I have two businesses to think about, right? The Xerion days and then now the brick and mortar days with the the products, right? And to me, you have the margin leakage the most in both cases because you forget about the details. And there are in each business, there were a handful of things, like maybe two or three things, that significantly impacted the overall margin that kind of got you you just kind of forget about it and you you take your eye off the ball. So in Xerion we had an issue with unbuild time. We had an issue with that the consultants oftentimes wouldn't bill they they like the guy, they like the customer, right? So then they wanted to they were they worked for him for an hour and a half, but they only billed them an hour. And you know that kind of works for a little while and until you start to put it on a sheet that you start to add it up over a year or six months or two years, whatever, and you start to realize you're like, well, hold on a second. Let me kind of go back, look at this again, and and you realize that in a way you have 15 people stealing from you, right? And seven hours add up. They they just add up, right? And so it's not their fault, right? It's just they're they're human and they're just trying to do what they think is fair. But that is the leakage, is that like when you are when you're in a service business like that, you your inventory and your product is your time. And you can't, it's not free. You have to, you have to be very, very anything involving any of your people and their time is like it should be under a microscope. And in the beginning, for the first several years, we didn't understand how much it needed to be under a microscope. We made some big changes a few years in. Well, here in in the brick and mortar space, selling products, the microscope is to the individual products, right? So last year we had a a huge influx of tariffs, right? And your pricing model out to the customers, you know, everybody has we're we're in it to make money, right? We're not in it to like pass through your perfect, your your cost exactly what you get from the vendor to give it to your your customer. You're not doing that. And nobody expects that. But you are trying to make sure that what the cost is today is what you're charging it for. So as the price goes up, like you have to manage that perfectly. And if you don't manage it perfectly, it just kind of leaks out the door. And in both cases, the problem is the people, consultants that would give away time before. And in hard goods distribution, you have all these different people that are writing tickets. And they're right, you know, we have 5,000 different products we sell in a year, we or we that we stock, we sell 10 to 12,000 in a year. You know, there's a lot of things in flux. And I can't touch every ticket, I can't touch every item. We, you know, we key 1,200 tickets a month, let's say. And they just it's uh it's kind of an engine. And that engine that's there for pricing and for what you're doing for certain customers, it has to balance with them, but it also has to translate and resonate with the individual people that are writing those orders. And so like last year we had a huge influx of the tariffs and all that stuff, and that was so hard to balance because every month, you know, we have 50 to 75 vendors, let's say, and when you get a price increase for their entire line every month or every 60 days because of some new tariff, now what? It's like hard to keep up with. And it was so hard to keep up with last year with all of it, and everybody's like, oh, your prices are going up. It's like, well, kind of, like they're never gonna go back down. I mean, I just have to manage what I have and to make sure that we don't lose. We have we we lose as little as possible in this situation.

AI Hype Real Wins And Limits

Roy Richardson 36:33

Interesting. How do you see, or and maybe I should I should change the question, and you you you hit on a couple points there that that's home here, by the way, and particularly in the service industry. And you know, I'm probably one of those guilty parties that are getting away a couple of half hours on the case. Yeah, exactly. But let's let's let's let's move forward a bit there. And you know, the buzzword today in any industry is AI, right? And artificial intelligence. And in your state, what do you see as actually being useful for independent operators like yourself? And what's just noise?

Speaker 3 37:12

What's what's useful? I mean, we have a lot that we have a lot of data in our industry. And we we also have in our industry software has made our lives really great and also really complicated. And so I think that AI is gonna help with a lot of that. It's gonna streamline some things and make people better and faster. But I I think a couple of the ways that it's gonna it's gonna help a lot is we we're starting to see a lot of the AI with with pricing, but also with inventory control and being able to scrub through that data to figure out what makes sense to how much you need to stock, when you need to bring it in. And I think that there's gonna be those engines, those things that help. But the biggest one of the biggest hurdles that we have in this industry with us is again the people, is this industry, we have people that stay a long time and they do not like their cheese to move. They do not like it. And like bec why do they not like it? Because you see some very, very, very successful independent supply houses across the country that they they do things the way they did for the longest time, and they do well, but they do well by counting every single penny and not spending anything, right? They do it that way, and they do not want to change. And that is inherently that is throughout the whole business, is you don't you don't see people leave the businesses that are in hard goods distribution very often. They kind of stay in their spot and they don't like to change. So I think that that's gonna be really disruptive. But the thing that's gonna halt, like not halt, but it'll be difficult for AI in some cases, is you really have an industry, like it is a very personalized industry. You know, we are a traditional brick and mortar, a traditional outside sales force. So my you know, Randy in Fort Myers, he is he goes, he shows up on site to a customer every morning at I think 4.30 and 435 in the morning to double check what they need and make sure all the trucks are covered and all that kind of stuff. So it's a super, super personalized service. And the moment that you take that out, that customer won't be okay with it. So they really, in fact, all the customers that I look at that we are really successful with, there isn't a very, very trusting, exceptional amount of personalized service. And a lot of our a lot of our sales folks have become very good friends with these people. That AI is not necessarily going to take that over. It's gonna be, it'll be difficult for that to happen.

Sean Murphy 39:59

Those relationships are still key, huh?

Speaker 3 40:01

They're still key. They're still key. Now we do have we have customers that push us for they only want what they want, right? They don't want a relationship, they don't want us to sell them on service so that we're just as we're better than the next guy. They want their price, and that's what it is. And so Jeff, my VP of sales, actually, it's him and Randy both, they both say like there's three, it's a three-legged stool, right? There's there's service, there's price, and there's availability. And you can only have two. You can't have three. You if you want price, then you're gonna go. Do you want price with availability or do you want price of service, right? Which one you want? Like you be you can't have it to like you can't call me up and say, hey, I want to bag a wing nuts delivered to the Space Coast uh tomorrow morning, and I want the best price that beats out 10 other people. It's like sorry, that's not gonna work. So yeah.

Sean Murphy 40:52

Got it, got it. Well, listen, let's talk leadership, and uh, we want to talk the real kind here. So, Roy.

Roy Richardson 40:57

Yeah, so you know, you've been a founder, an executive, and now an owner. How are the CEO and COO muscles different? And which ones did you have to build later than you than you would have liked to build?

Speaker 3 41:13

Well, well, let's see, they're they're all they're all hard. I'm a B again, a B student, right? I'm not great at any of them. But the thing that I think I'm good at is I I'm good with people, right? I'm good at recognizing talent and getting people engaged as a group to build and grow. But you know, when I first started the founder side of things, I just was a salesy kind of guy. And I just was good relationally, I was good selling, and uh that's just what I did. So I took on that kind of directionally as a salesperson, and then I didn't really figure out the executive side of things. It took me a long time, but when I bought out the other guys in Xereon in 2010, I I learned that I needed to be able to do a little bit of everything. And so when I got rid of so Jack was a CPA back in the day. Right? He was he was the numbers guy, and they he kind of handled the numbers side of the Xeron piece in the beginning, and then when he's gone and Brad's gone and Alonzo's gone, like all of a sudden, like now I have to manage people, I have to manage people, which I could I could do that, I could do the sales side, but now I need to know the numbers. And I realized that I needed to learn all of the the CFO stuff and like the controller stuff. And now, thankfully, I I've learned all that stuff, but I didn't go to school for it. But I I guess you just kind of learn over time that you've got on the job training, you've got to be a little bit of everything in the entrepreneurial role, whether you like it or not, you have to be you have to put on every hat. And some people say, Oh, like I gotta be the janitor when I need to be the janitor. It's like, well, just more practically, right? It's just like, no, I gotta be able to converse intelligently with the CFO, and I gotta be able to lead the VP of sales, and I gotta be able to lead the VP of operations. And I think in my the beginning of my journey, I only knew how to do maybe one of those, and you just kind of navigate to the rest of it.

Sean Murphy 43:23

Yeah, got it, got it. You also said that you wish you would would have fired faster and protected your culture sooner. What did waiting too long actually cost the business?

Speaker 3 43:38

Well, I I am I'm not a huge proponent of conflict. You know, some people are very good at it. I'm not uh I've gotten to where I'm okay with it and can deal with it, but I for a long time in my life who just you know decide not to deal with it, right? But I guess in the last I You just learn over time, right? And I realize when I'm looking back is that many times my gut instinct about certain people that were working for me or with me, could be vendor partners, customers, anybody, could be anybody, is that my gut was probably pretty right. And and it also like you get a certain amount of feedback from certain people that were engaged with those individuals, right? After it happens, after you let somebody go, all of a sudden you get this like feedback from people. And you just look at them and you say, Why did you not tell me? And they say, like, why didn't you fire that person before? Like, because everybody knew. And so, like, what's I've seen it happen several times where I let somebody go or we change course with somebody and there's like it's like somebody pops a balloon kind of a thing. Like you just, it's just all all of a sudden the pressure is relieved in situations, and those people start performing better. And in some cases, it I thought I was gonna lose a lot of business or whatever, and maybe I did, maybe I didn't, but it all ends up working out all right. It just, I just wish I didn't realize in the beginning how much I thought like you had to hire right and just manage them after that. And it's like it's almost like you need to fire faster and then still put in the time to hire as best you can, but realize you're gonna make some mistakes. But like when you realize the moment that you realize that this is not gonna work or uh it's not this is not a long-term gig, whatever with the person, customer, vendor, anything. You just you're better off just to cut it quick. As fast as you can't do it fast enough. And I still to this day, I can't seem to do it quick enough.

Building Culture With Hiring Systems

Roy Richardson 45:46

Well, you know what they say, right? Hire slow, fire fast, right? And and I I think every entrepreneur has sort of learned that on the flip side, meaning, you know, we we we tend to hire people, and a lot of times, you know, we look to move them around in different positions or maybe not doing well here. Let me let me let me try this round object and a and a square hole that uh that's much smaller and and and if it's not working, we end up really losing time, energy, and and and momentum, right? You you've you've talked about learning to cut your gut, and and I can relate on everything you said there. And realizing it was usually right. So let's fast forward to today. How do you evaluate people now to make sure they're you know no bad seeds that quietly spread and and how do you retain your culture?

Speaker 3 46:41

Carefully, carefully. So I went to a a networking event, like I do a lot, and most I try to like go to the ones that appear to be like they'll have a good topic, and I can take something away. I went to this one in Jacksonville, and it was it was CEO roundtable, and there was a guy up there named Pete Martin, and Pete Martin had wrote a book, but I didn't know he wrote a book. So he's doing this this uh roundtable conversation and he starts talking about things and and I was like, man, I really resonate with some of the things that this this guy is saying. And I'll fast forward to your answer because I know you're gonna come back to the book idea later. But you know, I'm what happened was is when I started to engage with Pete, I'll fast forward, I I did decide to start working with him, and one of the things that he taught me was about how important culture is. And it was it was not first on my list, like when I came into Powerbowl three or three and a half years ago, culture was not number one. In fact, I had all this laundry list of IT stuff that was number one, right? And then I was just gonna rely on me. Familiar territory. Yeah, me is familiar, right? And I'm a person and I'm like, I know people and I'm gonna get them rah-rah raw and like just I'm just gonna conquer the world, right? And that worked for a little bit, right? And I got a lot of things accomplished, but when I I hired Pete like a year ago, the first thing on his agenda was culture. And we need to we need to figure out who you want Powerball to be, how you want it to be represented, how you want it to be portrayed in the in the industry, and then we need to dissect it and make sure that from now on you hire people that way, and you get the right people coming in. So he really made us dissect the culture side of things. And so I to go back to your question is it wasn't on my agenda before. And now it's on my agenda, and so now what we have is we have uh we have it broken down by job, job role, all the way down to the job role, what we expect out of that that person, what we should do, and then we've navigated it to like a specific process with different companies to be able to hire a certain type of person. So before when I came three and a half years ago, uh all of my direct reports they would get indigestion about hiring anybody. They would hold on to everybody because they didn't want to have to replace them. And when Pete came in and helped us, he showed us that, like, look, you've got to make this thing way easier than that. And so we put in a process that literally, like, I don't none of my direct reports have an indigestion about bringing in the right person anymore. It's it's not a big deal. They used to stress about it, get a referral, do this, do that, and it was such a big deal. Nobody wanted to do it. They would hold on to everybody. And now it's become a nice, easy process where we can bring in the right people. And so bringing in the right people is allowing us to keep the right culture.

Roy Richardson 49:48

Nice, nice. And so we've covered culture and how you think about people, but growth usually earns us cars. And so let's talk a little bit about yours during the challenges, turning points, and lessons learned.

Sean Murphy 50:04

Yeah, so you've been through COVID, you've been through the housing crisis. Very difficult. Huh? Very difficult. Right, right. And then a SBA finance acquisition. What made purchasing PowerPoint more difficult than people would assume?

Speaker 3 50:22

Well, you know, when you buy a business that is has already been running, you feel like you're getting a turnkey situation. And now I realize that that's not at all the case. You're actually just starting over again. Because the business that it is today, the previous owner couldn't walk in here and know anything. He wouldn't know what to do with anything, right? It's a it's a completely new business, completely changed. Even though it's the same name and the same EIN, right? It's not the same, it's totally different. And so I think with when people buy when you buy a new a business that's already established, it's you're starting over, but you're starting over with a menu of people and things and customers and vendors that has already been put in place. You didn't pick any of them. And it's very, very difficult. And then when we started Theoryon, we started it with $10,000. And that's it. It was very little capital, all risk was just on your gut and like your your whatever grit, like you didn't didn't have a lot at play. It's like, oh well, if it fails, I'll just go find a job. And now when you when you do it and you do it with SBA financing, not only do does the SBA hold everything over your head, and it's very, very difficult. But when you're paying off a note, you're sucking out of the cash account, and it's it's not coming out of the PL. And it's it's difficult because you got to make enough to cover that and your expenses. And it it's just difficult. The the weight of debt in a business is extremely difficult. And and on top of that, to be able to grow with that, to be able to grow a business at all when you have some leverage, it's it's very difficult, very, very difficult. So uh anyway, so the the summary on that is debt's difficult, but it's also walking into a business that you already have the menu set for you. It's you got to deal with the pieces that you have.

Roy Richardson 52:25

Well, I mean, if you if you look at it, what what you what you said there actually makes a ton of sense. And particularly you when you're taking it from the standpoint of culture now, right? In order for you to establish the culture that you want in that business, uh you you've got to hit control alt delete in in many cases to to really reset it so that you can build it the way that you want it. But yeah, I I I hear you. I hear you, I hear you.

Speaker 3 52:50

Yeah, because you have it, you have the pieces in play, right? That you can't just go get them and change them. You know, like for example, like let's say my number one customer, right? I can't just sub that guy, sub I don't want to do that, but look, if I did, I wouldn't have that play. Like you just can't, it's a long-term thing and a long-term change. And that goes for the people, that goes for the trucks, I mean, for the the br the our locations. I didn't pick any of them. Just gotta take it as it is.

Roy Richardson 53:21

And so how did that whole concept of of realizing that it was almost literally hitting reset, how did that change the way that you think about risk preparedness and control today?

Speaker 3 53:34

Well, when it hit me that I'm starting over, you know, I the last year has been super hard, but you really I don't have any choice. You just every day you know, you have family, you have employees, you have all these mouths to feed and they depend on me. And at the end of the day, I just you just get up and you just get after it, and you do the best you can. And you try you can I can only do each day what I think is the right move and the best way to do it, and I don't have a quit in me. So I just you just make the best decisions you can today and and go forward.

Sean Murphy 54:21

Sounds like the chip is still on your shoulder. Oh, it's there, it's there in a big way now. Oh yeah. So hey, look, what what beliefs about leadership didn't survive all of these experiences that you've been through? And then what beliefs got stronger because of those? What what beliefs didn't survive?

Speaker 3 54:40

I think I realized at some point that not every that entrepreneurs are different. You just ha you're just a different dude than everybody else. And that the corporate mindset or the you know the expectations of a corporate ladder are just different. They don't really apply. And so that has really gone out the window for me. And just it's not because I feel like I don't get to do whatever I want. Like I actually people ask me sometimes, you know, how much do you work? It's like, well, I don't know, I work seven days a week. And but it's not I'm not it's not from six to six. It's just there's always something every day that I do, whether it's an hour or two or some getting caught up on the weekend, or it's at the wee hours of the night, like there's always something. And I had to throw away the idea of what a nine to five or a five-day work week looks like. It's just it's just all the time, and like very, very rarely do I ever actually have a vacation where there's no work involved. Like it's just it's just not. And I had to I had to realize that that is just that's me. I'm good with it. I actually, when I'm working, I love what I do. So when I put in a couple hours, like on a if I'm on vacation and I get up before the family gets up, and I go sit in the coffee shop and I have a coffee and I catch up on emails and I I do I feel good. It was relaxing for me. And I realize that some of the work that I have and that I do, I love it so much that it is in and of itself relaxing to me. So I just didn't I had to throw away the the subscription of what what everybody thinks work is. And it's just not really that much, it's just not work to me. I love it.

Data Discipline Without Slowing Down

Roy Richardson 56:35

Yeah, it's different, it's it's differently when you're passionate about what you do and and and when it's yours, you know, in a sense and I've I've had I'll give you an example. I had a a meeting this morning and and at 11 out of 130 preparing and and setting the stage for that meeting with Google and what points and topics and and some other things that somebody earlier today and after 130 at 100. Every modern organization is difficult age. Every company is a data steward in your world, e-commerce vendors, customer systems, et cetera. How do you build discipline around data without slowing the business down?

Speaker 3 57:46

Oh, good question. It's difficult because you the data gets in the way, right? But one of our I just I had a town hall meeting today where once a month I do a presentation to the whole company and I give them kind of the state of the union and what's going on, what did we accomplish last month, what are we doing going forward, what are our goals for the year, and all that kind of stuff. And one of the things that I reiterate often is just that look, we don't make decisions based on feeling or a hunch at PowerBolt. We need we make decisions based on data, based on information, and we make good quality, sound decisions based on data with what's best for PowerBolt and its customers. Like we literally try to function like that. So data is very, very important, right? We put the right data in the right hands with the people that we trust, but then we also require that we get a lot of input back from everybody, whether it's in the CRM solution, whether it's in our application that everybody uses, but we give everybody the right tools to do their job, and we require engagement from them, right? We require that they're all giving us feedback. And one of the best things that we've done is create an environment where people give us information back and we engage with them, right? And it as that happens, then you can make better decisions, right? So for example, CRM, like it's only as good as the information you put into it, right? But the business intelligence application that we we have, right, that does a lot of our reporting, it just spits it out. It's like, oh, this is your report of the day, right? Which is great. BI is great, it's just right through your fingertips. However, it's only as good as as people actually open it up and do something actionable with it, right? So again, you need engagement. And so what I've realized over the last couple of years, but really probably the last year, is just as as the leader in the business, like it is of absolute requirement for me to force communication and force engagement. And I think it's incredibly important to not only force it, but to get them to want to do that, right? And so it's almost like I I spend half my day selling to my own people. It's like, dude, look, as a sales guy, I want you to make a ton of money. Okay? So like stop doing it that way and start doing it this way. But look at what how far you've come from where you started to where you are now. And did you do that by coming up with that process yourself? And the person might like he might say, no. I was like, well, maybe you should start listening a little bit. But it needs it requires engagement. And what I find myself realizing is just how much they all need to be reminded and and encouraged because you want them to engage with it, and you can't get them to engage with it if they don't like it or they don't see it. Like they have to tangibly like recognize that it this is a good thing to put food on my table and money in my pocket if I do this. And if you can't get them to figure that out, then you might as well just be not not talking.

Sean Murphy 1:00:57

Very true, very true. Incredible insight, Tony. But from your perspective, what makes the biggest difference? The systems, the training, or just everyday habits?

Speaker 3 1:01:10

Man, those are those are three really, really important things. Like, how could I pick between those?

Sean Murphy 1:01:16

Well, we know it's like trying to decide which one of is your favorite kid, but you know, let's see.

Speaker 3 1:01:21

You can't do anything if you don't have the system, but if you don't teach them how to do it, I I think I will probably go back to education. Whatever the systems are in place, like you have to teach them how to get to the next step. And then you have to teach them how to get the next step. And the system in a lot of ways is just it's somewhat irrelevant. Like it is very important, but you have to you're dealt the people that you have, and your company culture is what it is, and it's like this moving thing, right? And you have to engage with them to get them to get better and to take the next step. And you you can do that with any platform that you have. You just do with what you have and make them get better.

Roy Richardson 1:02:03

So it sounds sounds more to me that the process is the most important aspect of that of that triad there.

Speaker 3 1:02:10

Yeah, I I think I think the process is incredibly important. Like you've got to because the process can be can repeat, right? You you can do that again and again and again.

Rapid Fire Habits Faith And Pride

Roy Richardson 1:02:20

So awesome. Awesome. All right, well, let's get fair to care. I would like to delve into the technology part a little bit over at Aurora InfoTech, you know, about helping organizations grow and innovate without ever compromising trust. So we're gonna go into the rapid fire section here. Sean, I'm gonna kick it over to you. Uh just your ballgame.

Sean Murphy 1:02:40

Yeah, Tony, first thing that comes to mind one book do you get the most and why?

Speaker 3 1:02:45

Well, probably uh Pete Martin's book, Scale Up Faster. His book uh is basically like the good to great, uh, but it's for independent, self-funded entrepreneurs. And it is it's an awesome, awesome read.

Sean Murphy 1:03:02

What's the most overrated buzzword in business today? AI. All right. I bet that makes tomorrow easier than today.

Speaker 3 1:03:15

Probably just taking notes. Just I routinely I still write down, I do a lot of things on my computer, but I still have a notepad and I write down kind of my my short hit list of like the things that are most important and the things that I can't let go of. And it helps to make sure at the end of the day, like I check some off and then I kind of get organized in my head for the next day.

Sean Murphy 1:03:38

Cool. Now now what calls or commitment outside of business keeps you grounded? Just chilling out.

Speaker 3 1:03:46

I uh peep, I I at work, I am like I work faster and harder than everybody else, and I just I get after it and I'm relentless, right? I just with the details and like with being successful and getting what I want and where I want to go, right? I just don't I don't have a quit in me. I just keep going. But home, you would be a lot of people would be surprised because I'm just very laid back. I'm just like, okay, no problem. I'll do that. Yeah. Because I tell people what to do all day, every day, right? And people are always talking to me. So if I get to go home and people tell me what to do, then that's great. Whether it's a nine-year-old, nine-year-old, or my babe, whichever one tells me what to do, I'm like, sweet, I'm in.

Sean Murphy 1:04:33

So as an Oklahoman with a chip on your shoulder from Oklahoma Baptist, what achievement are you most proud of that's not showing up on your balance sheet today?

Speaker 3 1:04:46

What achievement am I most proud of, work-wise or personal wise? Whatever you feel like would be beneficial for the audience. Being a dad, right, is is such a big deal. But uh, you know, I'm most proud of just being an entrepreneur. Like I'm just so proud of that. It's it's such a hard thing. And with how easy it is for people to spin up a business now, and uh, and a lot of a lot of people become very successful very quickly. But really, what you see in the data is that like most fail in the first year, a lot more of them fail in the first three, a lot of them feel in the fail in the first five, and if you make it to 10 years, you're in the like the 1% category. And so that my very first company that we founded, right, it it's still going, it's still going today. So it's got 21 years on it, and I'm running one that has been around for for 22 years. So like very proud of being an entrepreneur, true and true. I started one, I bought I've sold one, I've bought one, and it's just such a hard game. And it takes a very, very unique person to be able to do it. So I'm proud of that.

Sean Murphy 1:05:55

Cool. Uh we're gonna we're gonna slow it down just a little bit. Um you you you mentioned uh Your first business partner, Jack Whitman. Trusting you early, you know, walking by your cube and saying that you're going to work with that, which is amazing, right? Again, that you even took him up on it. How did that relationship change how you see yourself as a leader?

Speaker 3 1:06:16

I mean, he just believed in me, right? He gave me a shot just thinking that I could be successful. And for all I know, he was thinking in his head, he's like, we'll see if this works. Maybe he didn't see anything, but uh you take you take you take risks on people, and at times I've taken risks on people too, and it hasn't worked out, and sometimes it has. But you see what people can be and the potential that they have and and you run with it. And so, yeah, fair forever grateful that he did that. He taught me a lot of things, but just by taking a risk on me, he allowed me to dip my toe in the water of being my own boss and being an entrepreneur, and had no business doing it, by the way. But it really, really ended up fitting me very, very well as a person.

Sean Murphy 1:07:05

Right. So you can't you can't say you had no business doing it. He saw something in you that you didn't see in yourself. He was better suited to see it than me, I guess. I mean sometimes that's important, right?

Speaker 3 1:07:16

Yeah. I mean, somebody needs to see it in you before you do, right? Because you know, a lot of times your own perception about yourself isn't quite right either. And uh yeah, he he apparently saw something that he wanted to give it a rip, so I'm glad that it was me.

Roy Richardson 1:07:33

Right, right. And so and so that that relationship gave you a new lens on leadership, and along the way, themes like fate, perspective, and servant leadership keep coming up. How do those show up for you when things get hard?

Speaker 3 1:07:49

Well, things do get hard. I went through the the housing crisis, and that was really, really difficult. That was nobody saw that coming, right? Except for those that are really smart. And that was difficult. COVID was obviously really smart. Lived on me and the the family, we lived on savings for like a year that way, but didn't let anybody go. So that was that was very, very difficult just navigating that. You know, my faith keeps me grounded. It's you know, it's always your true north, it's what you you fall back on it at really hard times in my life. You know, I had my youngest son had cancer, and you know, when you go through that, that's that's obviously very difficult. So it kind of resets your your north, and then actually Nolan actually passed away at three, and he he you know, that resets you even further, right? So it resets like whatever faith you had, you need to figure that out. And so just getting situated in where you're at with your faith is always very important. And then that that sets up your morals and how you treat people and all that kind of stuff. And one of the things I realized as a as a leader is not only do you need to be willing to do every job, but you're really there to serve all the people that you're trying to get to do things for you, right? It's like you're on a constant sales pitch to try to get each person and each role to do certain things, but you also you have a duty to try to help them be better, but also a duty to help them want to do better and want to do the job better. So you can get them on board very easily, not easily, but a lot easier if you prove to them that you're willing to get in there with them and you're a servant to them as much as they are to you.

Roy Richardson 1:09:43

You know, Herring Dad, it's it's clear that you value guidance as much as conviction. And if you could build a dream board of advisors from any point in time, who would you have surrounding you and why? A dream board of advisors. From from any from any particular point in time, past or present. Hmm, man.

Speaker 3 1:10:12

I think probably that I I would probably pick the people that that I know that I know and and I believe in. And I would the two people that had the most impact for me on the business side of things is is definitely Jack. And then I would also probably have Pete Martin involved. Yeah, they they both those two people taught me so much about business and about what to do and and what not to do. And I feel like just having them as a sounding board would just be helpful. And I I in a way I do. I can always call them, but if I if I had them on the board, then it would be it would be pretty good.

Roy Richardson 1:10:53

Nice, nice. So let's make this practical, Sean.

Sean Murphy 1:10:58

Yeah, I I seem to have the questions we're asked in threes, right? Sometimes it's hard to answer all three of them. What are the three rules you operate by? And where did each one get written into you the hard way?

Speaker 3 1:11:14

The three rules that I operate by. Always be selling. ABS, right?

Sean Murphy 1:11:22

You're not getting no coffee over there, huh?

Speaker 3 1:11:24

Always be selling. What was the other one I was I was thinking of? Was oh, ki communication will win wins all the time. Is I I told my guys at Zereon, and I still tell the team today here, is that any answer any answer is better than no answer. And on top of that, don't lie, there's no reason to lie. Like just be truthful. It's it's not it's not always what they want to hear. And but being truthful and communicating is always better than zero. And you know, like if a sales guy has a bad update for a customer, then or telling them they totally forgot, then that's that's better than nothing, and it you are communicating. So communication is is key.

Roy Richardson 1:12:17

Well, those rules were written through experience. I mean they clearly guide how you operate today. So for operators coming up behind you, entrepreneurs, etc., what's one skill they should build this year and what's a real project where they can practice it?

Ten Year Vision Private Equity Risk

Speaker 3 1:12:35

I think one of the skills that the skill that was like so important to me that I didn't have, that I had to figure out, was the accounting side of things. And when I look at the up-and-comers in the entrepreneur world, right, and AI and everything else, all the software at your fingertips, everybody has this misconception that they can sub out the things that they're not good at, or they can hire this person to do that, or they can hire this person, right, that they can just figure it out, they can just do what they love, their passion. And it couldn't be further from the truth. Like I would encourage everybody that is up and comer in the entrepreneur space. You have to be two things. You have to be a sales guy, like you have to be able to sell whatever it is that you believe in. Like you have to. You may be very, very dull and and have an amazing product and people just buy it because it's the product. That's fine. But you're still selling it. You have to be a sales guy. But you really, really, really have to know the accounting side of things. Like you just have to. Like you can't, you can't entrust that totally to somebody else. Like, even if it's as simple as QuickBooks, like you just have you have to be able to do it. And the the last thing I would say is never let anybody like just couldn't make sure you control the bank account. Just whatever you do, don't give, don't give the admin the rights to the bank account. Make sure that you're signing all the checks, just putting in very simple things, like even to this day, like this in this really big company that I have, and the last one that I had, I literally was the only person that can send something out of the bank account. Like zero people are getting paid with anything without me saying, I signed that. And you you have to know what is going in and out of your business. And the only way you can do that is you know the accounting side of things.

Roy Richardson 1:14:36

Really, really great advice. And and and I will underscore that and bold it. Um get your hands dirty, get your hands dirty. Looking ahead, 10 years from now, what does success look like for PowerBolt and Tools and for you personally?

Speaker 3 1:14:56

See, at this, what how am I 46? So like that's kind of like it starts to become a question. It's like, what is it? Like, am I would I move on from PowerBoot? Would I try to, you know, just run it for the next 20 years? I don't know. You know, I want I want the business to be thriving. I personally think we're gonna have a very difficult, I think the economy is gonna be a very difficult economy in like 2030 and beyond for the just because of the baby boomers leaving the workforce and just I mean just the the numbers with that in that situation and the politics that we live in, I think it's gonna be hard. And so I think that if you know, if I still have Powerbowl come 2030, then like it's just gonna be a hard stretch. But I think a successful business would be one that is not leveraged, right? Not in debt, but also is is thriving, and it's one that's thriving for the families and the people that are here, and it's it's recognized as the premier supply house. I mean, I tell my team members all the time, it's like, look, I want to be not necessarily the number one on sales volume, I want to be the premier supply house in the southeast. And so when people think about job side deliveries, I want them to think PowerBolt. And and until I get that that would be success. It's like when people are like, you know, you drive around town and you see a van, it's like, that's the guy.

Roy Richardson 1:16:26

That's what I want. Nice. Nice. And and and if that's the destination, the terrain to get there matters. Where do you see consolidation and AI creating the biggest risks? And uh, I would say biggest risks and opportunities for for independent operators.

Speaker 3 1:16:46

You know, AI is AI is gonna make AI is making everybody smarter, right? It's there's we we hope. AI. But it is it has some great opportunity, right? But I actually think for our business is I think it's the private equity side that is the biggest risk. Is the venture capital folks and the private equity, you know, we call ourselves the the small to medium size independent, right? The independent supply house is becoming less and less and less and less. And all the private equity guys and the venture capital guys are buying them up, and rightfully so, they need a a way to move on for and retire or whatever, but there's none of none of the VCs are going back to private, right? And the problem in our industry is they take the personal side out of it, and they take the it's just an it's just a numbers thing. So you think that's sustainable? Well, I mean it sure seems to be ever since it came around, they keep getting bigger. But I don't know, but I mean the problem is that I see in our business is they make decisions that are just not they just make decisions differently than than we do. Like you're looking at a new SKU or a new product line that you want to carry and why you want to do that, right? And you're looking at how you're gonna get it into the customer base, and you're making all these logical decisions on how to do it, and then they come up and just buy somebody else, and then they either like it or they don't. They might even shut it off, right? And it's like there wasn't anything, they're making it on a sheet of paper, and because of that, it's very disruptive. It's very, very disruptive with the competition because you don't really know what you're competing against or why they did that. Like, why why did you do that? I mean, we we compete against many VCs, and there's times where we get into deals against another one, and we're like, like I literally have a I have a vendor that we got picked up on a couple of years ago, and they were a very, very specialized screw manufacturer, and they picked us up, and we we started selling their stuff. We were ecstatic to do it, right? But then we we were excited to pick up the line because they were exclusive with another with a competitor. We get in there and we figure out we're trying to sell this these screws, realize that the margins are already like in the tank, they've already tanked. They're already so low. And we're like, how did that happen? You were literally the only company selling it. How did you get how did you let it tank when you're the only one that has it and everybody loves it? Like, how did that happen? And it only happens because lack of education, right? But making decisions uh in a certain way that like they just it's you just make decisions that don't really make sense, and you end up in that situation, and so they they just crushed the market. And it's sad, but that those kind of things happen. So I I see it as like they start to buy other people, it just is very, very disruptive. More disruptive, the the VC and and private equity guys are more disruptive to RSpace than the AI at this point.

Sean Murphy 1:20:10

Well, Tony, I'm gonna take us home here. Thank you, Tony, so much for your time. This one meant a lot to me. I've known you for a few years now, and every time I see you, I I've enjoyed um our interaction. But from across different seasons, different roles, and different pressures. And what really stood out today is how consistent you've been the whole way through the time that I've met you and even today. Um you've always shown up as someone who's honest about the numbers, uh, clear about the trade-offs and willing to do the uncomfortable work that real ownership requires. Like you said, you found a window between six and nine, and then three and eight. And then I think a lot of people talk about discipline and grit, but you really actually live it. Especially in a world where it would be a lot easier to blame the market, you know, blame consolidation, blame the capital gain. Instead, you take responsibility and focus on on the details and uh lead with clarity. Uh and personally, getting to hear you reflect on your fate, perspective, and the people who shape your journey is very powerful to me. I know that um there are operators listening to us right now who feel the weight you carry every day. And that's why we wanted to do this podcast. We really, you know, something like that when I first met you three years ago. And I promise you this conversation will land exactly where it needs to. And I'm grateful for the friendship that we've formed over the years. I'm grateful for the trust. And I really am glad that finally got to have this conversation on record. Um thanks for being here, Matt.

Speaker 3 1:21:55

No, thank you so much. I appreciate it. You know, I would definitely flattered that you guys even asked me to to be here. You know, I don't not sure who wants to listen to me talk. I'm very flattered that I even got the invite. So I appreciate you appreciate it so much. Thank you guys.

Roy Richardson 1:22:10

Yeah, I know Tony, this has been great. And and and you know, following up on what Sean said there. I mean, we started this this podcast and this journey to really bring about change. But you know, thank you for the honesty discipline you brought into this conversation. What stood out to me the most is that your responsibility and responsibility to your people, to your customers, and to the reality of building something that has to hold up under pressure. We talked about margins, culture decision making, and the weight that comes with on the ship. But I don't think all of that is something deeper storage. You're storing a business, a legacy, and a trust in an environment that doesn't give anything a lot of room for error. And the way you've chosen to do that with definite clarity and humility matters. The story is an important reminder that real leadership isn't allowed, it doesn't take shortcuts, and it doesn't outsource responsibility. It shows up in the details and the hard calls and the willingness to keep going when it would be easier not to. We're grateful, Sean and I, that you shared that journey with us today. Thank you for being here, and thank you for leading the way you do.

Speaker 3 1:23:20

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Sean Murphy 1:23:23

I want to say to our audience, um, thank you for tuning in to the Dynamic Business Leaders podcast. And until next time, stay curious, stay driven, and continue to lead with purpose.

Roy Richardson 1:23:40

Hi, I'm Roy Richardson, host of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. Are you a business owner or leader of technical business? Yes, we'd love to have you to get on our program. Our goal is a very good idea.