From Football Fields to Boardrooms: David Sprinkle on Leading with Intention

What does coaching youth sports have to do with building a world-class recruiting firm? More than you might think.

In this episode of the Leaders Podcast, hosts Roy Richardson and Sean Murphy sit down with David Sprinkle, founder and managing partner of Veritas Recruiting Group and Inc. 5000 honoree, for a candid conversation about leadership, hiring, and what it actually takes to build something that lasts.

David draws a straight line from his days as a collegiate football player and youth sports coach to the leadership philosophy he runs his firm by today: standards matter, one-size-fits-all management doesn't work, and the moment you stop holding the line on expectations, you no longer have them. With more than two decades in executive search focused on accounting, finance, HR, and administrative leadership, David has learned to play the long game when the rest of the market chases speed.

He breaks down what separates a good hire from a great one (hint: it's about connecting the dots, not just doing the job), why contingency recruiting can quietly become dangerous for clients, and why the AI hiring revolution that's dominating headlines looks very different at ground level. He also shares why he turned down the path of aggressive scaling in favor of building a business that blesses his team and their families, and why that decision has never cost him relevance.

Whether you're a finance leader trying to make a critical hire, a recruiter trying to do right by your clients, or a business owner asking what long-term thinking actually looks like in practice, David's perspective cuts through the noise.

Connect with the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast Hosts:

• LinkedIn: Roy Richardson
• LinkedIn: Sean Murphy

If you found this episode of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast inspiring, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform. This way, you won't miss out on future episodes featuring other dynamic business leaders.

Check out our website here, and make sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel.

The Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast is brought to you by Aurora InfoTech, a Cybersecurity Firm that serves the information security needs of small—and medium-sized businesses.

Transcript

Roy Richardson 0:03

Hello, I'm Roy Richardson, and this is the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. Welcome back to the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast. I'm your host, Roy Richardson, joined by my insightful co-host and trusted sounding board, Sean Murphy. Sean, great to have you here. And today we have an amazing guest. And our conversation today sits right in the middle of leadership and noise, especially in a hiring market that feels faster, louder, and more automated than ever. Our guest is David Sprinkle, founder and managing partner of Veritas Recruiting Group, a boutique executive search firm focused on accounting, finance, HR, and administrative leadership. David has spent more than two decades helping organizations build teams, not by chasing transactions, but by playing the long game. He's a trusted advisor to CFOs and finance leaders, an Inc. 5000 honore, and someone leaders turn to when they're trying to make sense of a talent market that's changing faster than most people realize. But before we dive in, today's episode is brought to you by Aurora InfoTech, helping organizations grow with confidence by protecting the systems and data they depend on, so innovation never comes at the cost of trust. David, really great to have you here.

Coaching Lessons For Better Leadership

Sean Murphy 1:31

Thanks for having me. David, welcome. I know that this is going to resonate. Leaders who are tired of hearing noise or hiring noise and looking for real clarity. And I know that you're going to bring this to this session with us just today. Let's get into it and start with something light. I've known you a couple of decades. And early on when we first got started in our young journey as business leaders and business owners, you used to tell me about coaching your daughters and your days of playing pop corner football and stuff like that and having to make make weight. You coach youth sports, and you've said a lot of what you've learned about leadership actually comes from coaching. What's a lesson from the field that shows up for you in business all the time?

David Sprinkle 2:23

I I think especially with coaching, and I I was blessed to play a lot of sports growing up, and then even went in and played it football at the collegiate level. And the coaches that rubbed me the wrong way or that I didn't respond well to. And so the the lessons there are a big piece of it is having for the athlete to have somebody that believes in them and helps pull out the best in that person. Doesn't mean they're the best player, but but that they're there to help pull out the best in them. And a good coach modifies their approach to the person depending on what they need in that moment. A kick in the butt, a pat on the back, some words of encouragement, a hug. You just never know. And that translates so well into the business world. And so it's something that I've drawn on a lot. And in that it's just, it can't be a one-size-fits-all leadership mindset. It has to be what does this person need in this moment to help them be successful? So that without a doubt, it's something that I continue to work on because I'm not perfect at it. But it was a lessons learned for me.

Sean Murphy 4:08

I'm looking forward to some of the folks that you're going to talk about, they just bring back, you know, some some rocks of leaders that that led like what you're talking about, right? Where, you know, one size doesn't fit all. And I I know with having two children that are highly competitive in sports, and we we're on the west side of Orlando, and those kids, I tell them all the time, I'm like, look, this stuff that you're learning is transferable to downtown. You just have to believe in yourself. And so that that was my that was a part of my purpose of being out there in the Paramour, Washington Shores area is to say, hey, you know, encourage them. This stuff is transferable. But when you're coaching, you're really building confidence. And I again, I know that. I love that. I I remember the tight end at UCF, Dylan. I remember putting my arms around him when he was nine, 10 years old. You know, his coach would just lay into him, you know, Dylan, you're so soft, and you know, and and and you know, coaches, they have to do that in some cases, right? They're getting I know you too, right? And I would put my arms around him and just keep going, stick with it. But anyway, you're really building confidence, not just performance. How much of that mindset carries into how you work with candidates and clients?

David Sprinkle 5:30

A lot. And it it's more than just building confidence or trying to build confidence with the other person. Part of it is setting standards that that you have expectations for people to live up to. And and that's happens a lot. Good coaches set the standards for their program. I think we saw it this last year with with Signetti in Indiana and turning around a doormat into a national champion, and he talks about that.

Sean Murphy 6:03

Podcast is over, he cheated.

David Sprinkle 6:06

But but that's the that's he talks a lot about that. And Saban, he was a Sabin disciple, and Sabin talks about that. It's about working the process and and and having standards for things. And some of that's as a coach is not letting your your athletes get away with stuff. And as simple as when you step on the field, you're running onto the field. We're not walking onto the field. And when the coach is talking, you're not talking. Little things like that, and then not tolerating it. And so when it when when that standard gets broke, not just ignoring it, because once you start ignoring a standard, it's not a standard anymore. And so the same thing happens in business, whether it be the candidates and the clients that we're that we deal with who aren't my employees. They're they're my customers. And so the customer isn't always right. And so setting good boundaries with the people that I work with, whether they be internal customers, my colleagues, or the external customers, candidates and clients, it's important to set good boundaries and so that they know what the expectations are and what I'm expecting of that. They may not agree with it, they can choose not to do business with me in that case. But if we set high standards, usually that attracts the people that we want to attract and repels the people we don't want to attract.

Morning Walks And Mental Reset

Roy Richardson 7:28

Well said. Well said. And speaking about boundaries, you know, sometimes we need to put them around ourselves, right? So uh before we rewind and go to your origin story, you know, what's your favorite place to think clearly and what actually helps you reset when things feel noisy?

David Sprinkle 7:46

I have two dogs who now are chomping at the bit every morning to go on the walk. And so I start just about every day on a two, usually it's a two-mile walk around my neighborhood. Sometimes I do the extra loop and go three miles. And that is a time for me that I don't use in the same way every morning. Some days it's I listen to a podcast. Some days I don't look at anything on my phone, and I just am one with nature and let my mind go where it's gonna go. Some days my wife goes with me, and we get to just talk and be with each other and invariably stuff uh you know about the family and life and all those things that we it's hard to make room to have those conversations sometimes. And so, so that opportunity to take my dogs, which you know, they go insane if we if if until we go, they're so excited. And but it's a it's a it's a really good place for me to start my day and and in many cases get my head right because there's always stuff that you know that that clogs up the noise you talked about. And so that noise in our lives, which is so loud with our phones and and there's so much coming at us. One of my mentors at when I first got into this industry really beat into me that when you're about to do something, do a checkup from the neck up and see where you're at, see where your head's at. What are you what what conversation just happened that is affecting you emotionally, psychologically? So if I'm walking in the door from my house and my, you know, and something happened with my family, that has nothing to do with the people that I'm about to interact with. But it's very easy to let it just bleed in. And I walk in with a scowl on my face and then it starts the day off wrong. So so no matter what I'm about to do, right before this podcast, it was all right, let me do a checkup for the neckup. I got I got tons of stuff going on right now, a lot of plates spinning, but no, I need to put those aside and focus on the task at hand. And that that echoes for me over the last 20 years since I got that advice, and and it keeps I keep reminding myself of it, and I try to encourage my team as well.

Sean Murphy 10:07

Awesome. I love that. Checkup from the neckup. Was he a former rapper? No, I'm kidding.

David Sprinkle 10:15

I you know, maybe who knows? He was a former preacher, actually, which was kind of interesting.

Sean Murphy 10:20

Was he a Southern Baptist?

David Sprinkle 10:22

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you'd never know. When I met him, I've never guessed that he was a preacher because he liked to have a good time. Former former preacher. So but but the the the psychological aspects and and really this the internal psych, your own psychological aspect is is what I continue to work on and and what I try to be mindful of and how that impacts other people around me.

How David Found Recruiting

Sean Murphy 10:46

Yeah, absolutely. I I again I I really like that a lot. I that's one that I'm going to write down and and and really make a part of. I try that, but I never, you know, that that uh the saying is kind of cool. But Roy, let's let's um rewind a bit. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Roy Richardson 11:02

Uh David, let's let's take a journey back. What pulled you into recruiting in the first place? And when did it move from being just a job to something that really felt like a calling?

David Sprinkle 11:14

I got recruited right out of college. So I went to Harvard University and they did on-campus recruiting. And I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up when I was graduating from Harvard. And I I had finished my football career and had really defined my life in many ways from second grade until 16th grade by being a football player. And then that ends, and then it's well, who am I? And what am I? What do I want to do? And so all those questions were going through my mind. I didn't know. I just figured I need to get into business of some sort, I need to make money, I'm not living at home, so it's time to find work. And one of the companies that recruited on campus was a security guard company. And I, amongst other, I had some Wall Street stuff and some consulting stuff, but but this uh security guard company said, look, we're we put you on a management fast track, and and where do you want to live in the in the US? We've got offices everywhere. And so that was attractive. So I said Atlanta, and management fast track sounds good to me. And so I took that job, not knowing what I was getting myself into. Security guards, that business is constant recruiting, constant staffing. Because what happens is they you you get a contract with a a building, and and you are contractually required to have a person, a guard, at that post 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And so when people don't show up for their shift, you have to have somebody to back them up, otherwise you go stay at post. And I was many times. So I did that for several years and and got a little tired of being responsible for that and having to show up at two o'clock in the morning on a, you know, at a at a location to get stuff done. And and so then, but didn't realize that it's really a staffing job because I wasn't familiar with the staffing industry in general. And so then when I looked to, okay, what how do I transition? Discovered my the my former company and interviewed with them for a sales job, and and they said, Well, this is you're overqualified for the sales job. I was by at that time, and but here's a management role within our organization, and just kind of fell into it and and then started learning. Wasn't wasn't all in yet. Didn't didn't know that this was gonna be my passion, my career. And it wasn't until circumstances in the in the branch that I was running changed. I I had to let go of someone, and then the person that was gonna do that function that was remaining a few weeks later told me that she had to move back home because her husband was cheating on her, and so she was moving back home and she was getting divorced, and and then she was gone. And then the other people turned to me as the manager and said, Well, who's gonna do that job? And I said, Well, I guess I will until I find a replacement. So I had to throw myself into that that role and and do it and and just really started learning.

Sean Murphy 14:31

But that's not your that wasn't your job description.

unknown 14:34

No.

Sean Murphy 14:35

Being funny that, you know, a lot of times you hear that, right? Right. And but most entrepreneurs, they they don't take that mindset, right? It's like we just got to get the job done. Done. So anyway, but keep going.

David Sprinkle 14:46

Yeah, so fast forward, I ended up finding uh ultimately finding the the person to replace me. And but but it it made me get into the meat of the business and and really start to do it and understand it and and understand the how rewarding that it is and how impactful it can be. And and so fast forward a year and a half, and and that branch, one branch of the year for for the company, and it was you know over 150 branches, and my boss said at the big party while I'm holding the trophy, she said, and to think I almost fired you six months into your job. I was like, what are you talking about? You almost fired me. She was like, You were you were one foot in, one foot out. You just you weren't all in, and and until until you got all in. And once I went all in uh in terms of embracing my job, in terms of embracing the business and really doing it, I discovered it. I discovered that I like this, I'm good at it. Uh I I it fulfills something in me that isn't because I get to impact people's lives and in a in a positive way, both candidates and clients. And so those pieces of it really made me discover the passion. So I always find it funny when people say, took young kids, follow your passion. They don't know what they're passionate about. They're passionate about video games right now. So if that's the case, then they're all gonna go to EA Sports. But that's that's not what they're what they're passionate about is scrolling TikTok, right? That's just not that's not success. And so I found something that I was good at that then I that I got passionate about. And a lot of people in my industry will say they fell into it, and because no one goes to school, college to to do this type of work, but we end up finding it and then realizing, wow, this is very rewarding.

Roy Richardson 16:39

Wow. So so how did your background in economics from Harvard help the way shape the way you think about value judgment and long-term decision making and you know a people-driven business?

David Sprinkle 16:52

Yeah, it's been a it's a it's an interesting. I have an economics degree, as you said, and and so most people with economics degrees, if you're gonna actually use the degree, you're usually either going to like an economic think take or you get into some form of government agency that has to do with economic policy. That's that wasn't my route. However, the the perspectives and and and the interest in what's happening on a macro level, and then how that impacts things on a micro level, and and how that plays with the clients that I serve and that my firm serves, I'm able to give insight and give them advice and help and that perspective that they don't have because they don't have that background, that interest. Those things don't jump out at them in the news where it does for me. And and so I'm able to then take that that that type of information and distill it in a way that can be valuable to my clients in terms of how they make decisions with what's going on with their business, because all they know is their business and their industry for the most part, because they're hyper-focused on that. Where my business in industry is over all the industry. So I'm looking at all of it. And and so that's where I'm able to distill the right pieces of information to help be a good advisor for them.

Sean Murphy 18:14

Makes sense.

Roy Richardson 18:15

Makes sense.

Sean Murphy 18:16

I actually love David's story. I remember when I met him years ago and we were talking about he went to high school here, you know. So hanging out downtown Orlando at either ACG or one of the organizations, he's like one of like 300, you know, one in 300 that went to high school here, went off to college, and came back. And so I was I was always intrigued, you know, highly up with that. So I I had to throw that nugget since this is you know the section about the origin of the city. I never thought I'd be back.

David Sprinkle 18:47

Once I left, I thought I was done with Orlando, done with Florida, but I was 18, right? So you you you your priorities shift. And then I lived in Los Angeles for eight years. That's where I met my wife. And and then when it was time to get married, we didn't want to raise a family in Los Angeles. And so we started looking at, well, where would we? And we wanted to be closer to family. She's from Oregon, I'm from here, so that was the opportunity to move back here.

Sean Murphy 19:18

Right, right. So so you made it easy to come here and to leave the the the West Coast and leave her behind.

Responding Instead Of Reacting

David Sprinkle 19:26

Yeah, leave her family, yeah. So we it's a priority to go back and visit the family a lot. And and so those are long flights, but we we make it work and and she got used to it. It was a tough transition. I moved her to the suburbs, you know, and she we were just getting married and in our still in our 20s at that point, like late 20s, but so yeah, it took a little adjustment before she started making friends and right, yeah, and feeling comfortable here.

Sean Murphy 19:54

So all of these years later, um, a couple of beautiful daughters um that that are highly competitive, but but you've talked openly about early seasons where your confidence took a hit because the results felt tied to things that you couldn't control. Uh and I I I know that, right? Especially early in our careers, man. We have high expectations and things like that. What did that chapter teach you about identity and and leadership?

David Sprinkle 20:23

It's so important. My my own emotional state, it it impacts the people that I work with. And so from a leadership standpoint, the emotional energy that I bring to the people around me, whether I'm being negative or optimistic or anything, it it impacts them and they feed off of it. It's hard not to. They're not doing it consciously, they're doing it, you know, so it's mostly a subconscious thing. And so that checkup from the neck up that we that we talk about, I, you know, before that time, I was in management roles, and looking back, I was not a good manager. And I would operate emotionally and react to things and instead of responding to things. And so what I learned by a couple of and I there's a couple of points early in my career where I had people check me that reported to me, and and it was like, look, you gotta you gotta be better. You you you can't risk you can't sit there and react emotionally like this because it it it ruins everyone else's day because you're the boss. And and so keeping that in mind of like I I try to be very intentional about responding rather than reacting. And I can respond with emotion, but it's intentional in that case, and I try to make it intentional. Because when I react, usually a reaction is probably usually going to end in negatively. And and I've recognized that in my life. And I watched it in other people.

unknown 22:02

Yeah.

David Sprinkle 22:02

And so I said, You're not responding, you're reacting to this. And so take a beat. Think about how what you how you need to respond to this. And so that's that's been key because I can't control other people. And I'm in the people business. So this is, you know, if I'm if I'm hung up on one deal and and and one candidate and one one client making that hire, and I I can't control any of that. They they both get to make that decision as to whether or not they move forward. And and so knowing that, I have to one try to disassociate my emotions from my expected outcomes on that.

unknown 22:43

Right.

David Sprinkle 22:44

So that I can be helpful to make sure that both sides are making educated and informed decisions. And and that they're not making reactive, emotional, overly emotional. People make emotional decisions and then they back it up with lot with their own logic. That's just kind of how the world works. So the more I can help them not just be emotional about this decision that they're making, but actually look at things from all sides without pressure from me. That's the that's the hard part. So I've got to detach from the outcome and and focus on helping the person get what they want, not my outcome. And that's that's really hard, especially when if money's thin. And at the beginning, when I started this company, you know, I was I bootstrapped it. So there were definitely thin moments of time where it's I needed it. And that's not a great place to be. So for me, also as the I when I experienced those moments, those sleepless nights, because money was tight, I I wanted to make sure that we built this business to a point where I could take, I could cushion ever any blow that happened. Doesn't matter what comes at me, that that we've financially stable to be able to, as the economy shifts, if a customer tells us to pound sand and they're not doing business with us anymore, that that we're okay and that we just keep moving forward.

Sean Murphy 24:12

And David, you've been around uh a couple of decades now. How long have Veritas been around?

David Sprinkle 24:18

Veritas is uh coming up on 17 years this September.

Sean Murphy 24:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Sprinkle 24:22

And you got some people that have been around uh just a couple of 15-year people and and yeah. Our our average tenure uh for my team is over seven years for average. And I've got an a new guy that's three months in and a 15-year and everything in between.

Sean Murphy 24:39

But you have about what, 15 people working for you, right? Or working for you. Yeah, there's 15. Yeah. That's right. Right. That's that's fantastic. Now tell me tell me about the Inc. 5000.

Building A Cushion To Grow

David Sprinkle 24:48

Yeah, so the Inc. 5000, they look at what your revenue is at this year versus three years ago. And so it's a three-year growth. And when COVID happened, 2020, that year, was again being in a financial position to be opportunistic was what allowed me to grow when everything was uncertain. And so you see, a lot of the the some of the biggest companies out there were started during recessions.

Sean Murphy 25:22

Right, absolutely.

David Sprinkle 25:23

And and so that was a a s a short recession, but it was a recession nonetheless. I mean, the it was very uncertain. And so I had confidence that this wasn't gonna last forever, even though there's a part of me that thought, what if it does? Uh I was confident that that we would come out of this, and so I wanted to be opportunistic to say, look, there's a lot of companies that are that are cutting recruiters and laying people off and closing offices. And and so when that happened, there was an opportunity to to hire a key employee in our in the Tampa market, which we weren't in, not in in a meaningful way. And and so when when he became available, then that was the the opportunity to say, okay, we're gonna choose this time, even though it's still to the world, it feels uncertain. This is gonna be the time that we're gonna invest and expand. And and so you have to have the capital to do it. And so the lessons learned from 10 years prior was to be able to have that cushion and not only to absorb absorb the blows, but also to invest when other people are not. And so that's that's going against the grain of what probably at the time I got on some Zoom calls with you know the American Staffing Association, and I did a couple of them with other business owners, and I had to stop going because there was so much doom and gloom out there at that time. And I said, God, I I I can't I can't be the light for you guys because that's what we're doing for our clients right now. So it was I just had that that eternal optimism that things were going to that the economy was going to come back because it always does, and and then also the fortitude to make the investments when the opportunity presented itself. And so when we did that, I hired a team, and and so we immediately expanded the amount of people that we that we had, and then combine that with the economy rocketed back. And so the hiring went through the roof, and and so you you combine that with we were ready. We I I observed I I got more people, and then when it came back, then we were there. And so that enabled us to really double our business from the previous three years and and keep it. And it wasn't a spike, right? We were able to keep that going. And so that's why we had three years in a row of making that list, because those previous three years prior to COVID, we were, you know, we were at this level, and then we went up to here and kept it. And that was the that was the ability to get it. So it's a nice recognition, and it was nice for the team be part of that.

Sean Murphy 28:11

That that that is awesome. So so those short-term wins, you know, not focusing on that, thinking long-term, strategic, it it clicked during that time. So let's talk about the work you're leading today.

Boutique Executive Search For Finance

Roy Richardson 28:24

Yeah. So so, David, for listeners who don't know what Verthas recruiting group does today, give us the snapshot, who you serve, what you focus on, and why staying boutique is a deliberate choice.

David Sprinkle 28:39

We are a staffing and recruiting and executive search firm. We focus on on the functional positions. So we place CFOs and everyone in the CFO's org chart. So that would be mid-management, director level, all the way down to staff. And so in many cases, we'll place a CFO and then help them build out their team or or change their team in a way that needs to be changed for them to accomplish the outcomes that they're looking to get for their team, for their organization. We we cross all industries, and and why that's been helpful for us is that as economic cycles happen, the some industries are doing good and some industries aren't. And then so every industry's got cycles to it. And when you're tied to one industry where some recruiting firms do, they they niche on manufacturing or they niche on construction. It's great when it's great, but then they go out of business. Yeah, when it's when that when construction plummets, they go out of business. And and so that enabled us to like back in COVID, if you remember, where everybody was talking about pivoting, we got to pivot. We we're constantly pivoting. We're constantly looking at which industries are doing well, which companies are doing well, which companies are growing. You know, let's let's make sure that if there's an opportunity in that industry, because it's the industry is growing and doing well, well, then let's go deep in that industry, but not only in that industry. So we've we're able to we're able to play in the markets that are doing well at any given moment. And we've been very blessed, we're focused more geographically on Florida, and we're very blessed to be in Florida because it's the economy continues to to do well and be resilient here, and and a lot of that has to do with net migration of people moving into the state from other states that aren't as business friendly.

From Doing Tasks To Connecting Dots

Sean Murphy 30:42

Right, right. You just talked about working closely with CFOs and and all of those that are underneath them or other you know finance leaders. From your seat, um, what separates a good hire from a great one?

David Sprinkle 30:56

Yeah, the the great hires uh understand what they do and and how it fits into the the overall goals of the organization. A good hire just does their job and so and but but doesn't care or or maybe they do care, but no one's ever explained where and how this impacts the rest of the organization. And the great hires do, and and that way they're able to do their jobs in a way sometimes it's different, and especially like accounting. Accounting is very there's a lot of routine in accounting, and and mistakes, you know, you they're the the more accurate the better with accountants, but not all accountants are are the same. And so within each job, there's gonna be there's gonna be things that make one better over the other in terms of accuracy and speed and the combination of the two. But but good to great is do I understand and do I embrace what I do and how it impacts the organization? And are there ways that I can look for additional opportunities to have greater impact from my seat doing bank reconciliations? Or you know, it does you don't have to be the CFO to want to impact the the company in a positive manner.

Roy Richardson 32:21

It's you you hit on something there with regards to you know people going above and beyond and really having a passion for what they do versus those who are just filling a seat and carrying out an automated process from eight to five. You know, we we we see it all the time. It's one of my I would say my my biggest uh pet peeves today, so to say, is you know, wh why why don't we as a society dig deeper and do more, right? It's it's even from a knowledge perspective, right? And if you think of it from, hey, you know what, the job is, you know, maybe I need to learn these skills for the job, but I'm I'm only gonna focus on doing that between eight to five because that's what they're paying me for. But truth be known, you know, the intellectual property s lives here, whether you're in that job or not, right? So you're just feeding your mind.

David Sprinkle 33:10

So here's the phases. One is they come and do their job and they do it well. The next is they ask for more. That's better. Best is they're connecting the dots. And they're they're connecting the dots beyond what they do. And so that's the difference is the the desire and the interest in connecting the dots beyond what I do. So just asking for more is good. That's better than not asking for more. I mean a lot of people stop there and and don't have a let me let me figure out what is my boss stressing about. What keeps my boss up at night? What are the problems that my boss, what my boss's boss, what are the problems that my boss's boss is trying to solve? Maybe I've got the solution for that. But if I'm not thinking about that and trying to connect the dots, because maybe the root is with what I'm doing that connects to here, that connects to here, that is the problem that my boss is trying to solve. And so maybe, so that's where good to great happens from an employee's perspective. So as a as a leader, it's how do I help them to understand that and help them to buy in and and and want to connect the dots.

When Transactional Recruiting Gets Risky

Roy Richardson 34:27

And and in in your industry, I'm sure you you run into, I mean, you you are running a specialized recruiting firm, but you run into too many others out there and like you know, who are playing the role of recruiter. And and so the question is, you know, at what point does a recruiter stop being helpful and become dangerous? And when does transactional hiring quietly go sideways?

David Sprinkle 34:51

Yeah, the biggest uh problem in our industry, a little bit of it is set up in the in the how we get paid. And so uh so retained search is one thing. Retain search is you pay me a retainer, and now just like you pay an attorney a retainer, and now they represent you, and then then there's payments along for the whole process. But when when it's contingency, which is kind of like personal injury, if if we're taking the same analogy, personal injury attorneys are on a contingency basis. You don't have to pay them anything unless they get the result. So, so for a lot of direct hire recruiting is contingency based. And so when I have the conversation with my clients about the difference between retainer and contingency, I say, look, if you've worked with a recruiter to help you hire for your team, do you feel like that recruiter represents you because you're paying them? Do you feel like they represent you and your company, or do they represent the candidate that they're trying to place? Contingency, they represent the candidate. Because if their candidate doesn't get placed, they don't make money. And so what unfortunately that does across the industry is it makes it very transactional. It becomes more about speed to market and getting that, just throwing that person out there and seeing if it sticks, rather than representing the client and really being extension of the client and helping them to find the right fit, not just the person that you know that was the first person I found, and I'm just gonna throw them at you. So so that's where it gets dangerous because it gets very transactional and it just gets very sloppy, and it the level of depth and thoroughness isn't there because it's not incentivized to be there. And so a lot of uh we we've been doing more and more engaged and retained work. Uh we still do contingency work, but but that's part of a point of difference between how we approach contingency work because we're not because I'm not desperate, because we're financially stable, I don't have to rush and throw a bunch of crap against the wall and see if it sticks. And we sometimes we lose out on deals against other recruiting firms because they do, and it just so happens they got lucky and something stuck. I would rather be intentionally more thorough and take a more retained approach to the contingency search because then that that helps the client better. And dangerous is a is a is a funny word, and I I think where where recruiters can really get dangerous is is when it becomes worse than speed to market, when they start lying and and start hiding things intentionally because they're desperate to get the fee and and desperate to make the money. And that's really where it gets, and they hide it from both sides, and and that's that's where it gets bad.

Roy Richardson 37:55

You know, you you you just laid out and took me back about 25 years on my first technology company, where we hired a recruiting firm to look for a telecom engineer. Met with them on a Friday, and on a Monday, the the guy called me back. We found your guy, and he just happened to be in the area, and blah, blah, blah. And you know, my firm did a search and blah, blah, blah, etc. Long story short. Months and months later, after trying to fit a circle and a square hole and doing moving seats and doing everything, finally we said, you know, it's not gonna work. And and when we sat down and said, hey, let's play open card with each other, the the candidate at the time told us, well, I was, you know, I was at a location enjoying a drink, and this person, I struck a conversation, and he said, I have an opportunity. And uh so yeah, I I hear you.

AI Tools That Help Versus Hype

Sean Murphy 38:49

Well, David, we know AI is like all over the media, and I thoroughly enjoy your LinkedIn post almost every other week when it comes to economic data that affects recruiting, staffing, uh, people. I I I haven't seen you post in about a week or two, but I I really enjoyed those. But you know, the last couple of months we've heard about AI. AI is everywhere in hiring right now. In your world, what's genuinely useful and what's just adding noise?

David Sprinkle 39:26

Interestingly, I I would have expected our clients to be talking to us more about it than they are, and they're not at all. Like it hasn't like when we do an intake of a of a position and to to determine what what are what are the needs here for this role, what are the outcomes they're looking to get, what are they hoping to find in terms of a skill set and so forth. It it has yet to be, we have yet to write a job that they said they have to know how to utilize AI. That hasn't happened yet. I I'm confident that it's coming at some point, but it's not there yet. Now, again, we do a lot of accounting and finance stuff. I also was expecting that some of the lower level accounting photos, like AP accounts payable, I was expecting those to this year to disappear. And and they haven't. We still have the same level of I need a person to process the invoices. And and so they have a hard enough time figuring out the software platforms that they have to use in accounting, especially the cloud-based ones, which most of them are now cloud-based, that have AI tools that keep popping up that they have to like X out of because they're like, no, I need to just I just need to process the invoice. And and so AI adoption, I think, uh in a in a boots hitting the ground standpoint is is still not quite there yet. Internally, we've been looking to how can this enhance what we do? And a lot of it's more enhancement of of what we do and and try to speed things up and can we get better understanding and and clarity on on things using AI rather than having it do the job. And and it's prohibitive at this stage to to really embrace it as an employee, yeah, have agents as employees. You can be intentional. I know some companies that do. I have my my brother-in-law is is uh was just featured in Forbes because they're they're in a startup and half their employees are AI agents.

Sean Murphy 41:40

AI agents, huh?

David Sprinkle 41:41

So they're having their AI agents work as employees, and and I think that's fascinating and interesting, and but they started that way, and and I think it's easier to start a company with that structure than it is for you know a 30-year-old HVAC company that is going, I don't AI, I mean, I don't know, it helps me write stuff, but you know, uh that's about it. And and so I think that's the harder part for them. And Orlando is filled with medium and small size companies that don't have the ability quite yet, because there's no off-the-shelf stuff that that at this point yet, except for when they plug, like I said, they plug into QuickBooks and it starts hitting them with AI stuff that they just X out of and then go back to doing what they're doing. So I think it's coming. I I think it's in terms of more adoption.

Sean Murphy 42:38

Right.

David Sprinkle 42:39

But old old habits die hard. And I was just having a conversation with a client who was telling me, you know, that they were implementing just a new software system, not even AI, and yet there were people in the company that were like, that's great, but my spreadsheet works just fine. And I'm gonna continue to keep using my spreadsheet.

Roy Richardson 43:00

Change because it changes because it works just fine. Right, right, right. Yep.

David Sprinkle 43:05

Yeah. So why would I try to figure out how to use the new ERP system, that module in it, when it ain't broke. So why am I fixing it?

Roy Richardson 43:15

So now, David, think think of think of all the the evenings you probably or days you probably could have saved when you were running that security firm if you could have just sent over an AI agent to replace the worker who never showed up.

David Sprinkle 43:28

The droids. If I had some droids, I'd send them out. But man, I I stood post several times in the middle of the night going, somebody wake up, and that was before cell phones, so I was calling home phones.

Seek First To Understand

Roy Richardson 43:40

Yeah. So, David, how would you describe your philosophy around leadership today and how different it is from what you believed in earlier in your career?

David Sprinkle 43:50

I started out of college and had no real leadership or management training at all. And so I just was winging it and trying to figure it out as I went and was really the only models that I had were my were the coaches that I had growing up. And as as good as some of that is I I mean I play football. I had coaches yelling at me. And so I went into the workplace and I mean I remember raising my voice with people and and that sort of thing and so and being emotionally charged when things would happen and and then starting to recognize how that was received and usually not well.

Roy Richardson 44:34

And so the results were the results were not expected.

David Sprinkle 44:37

No no not what I was hoping. I mean there was people would comply but it wasn't it wasn't the it wasn't effective and it was and it wouldn't have been the way I would have wanted to have a manager. So so then as I as I grew and one of the formative books for me that I read was Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And all seven are really good and and but the one that that really impacted me the most from a leadership standpoint was to seek first to understand before being understood. Because I up until that point had managed from a I'm the manager, I'm the boss, do what I say. You need to understand what I'm trying to communicate because I'm the boss. And then once I read that book and and how that that principle really applies to a lot of things in life but certainly from a leadership standpoint to come in first to try to understand where that person's coming from and and then talk about what my objective is or what my agenda is what I found was that in many cases, especially in one-on-one conversations even though I had a performance issue let's say that I was sitting down to to talk to this person about their performance and and it's not good. First asking questions and probing and and and getting an understanding of where they're coming from and their circumstances and everything it it gave me more information that actually changed what I then coached them on and instead of just laying into them was like okay well then let's let's talk about that and by doing so then they were way more receptive to hearing what I wanted to get across. And otherwise they wouldn't they would have just sat there because in one case this Lady Michelle she was she was upset with me and she was being passive aggressive and during the day. And so finally I pulled her aside and I was like we need to sit down and talk because this isn't going to work and and then instead of just laying into her about her performance and her attitude and and she's got a crappy attitude all those things first I just stopped and asked open ended questions to see where what was going on with her. And then she was able to feel comfortable to explain what you know how she was feeling about me at that time. That totally changed my approach at that point because then I realized oh this is me. This isn't a her issue I mean it is but it's it's a me issue she felt heard and then I was able to then go okay well we've we've got to figure out how to solve this because we've got work to do. And and so it enabled us to actually have a stronger relationship at the at the end of the day because she felt heard.

Sean Murphy 47:23

Yeah very cool. And and I would imagine that's how you build culture right some some of those things when I was with the the truest leadership institute we really talked about that with our clients and and culture and and and you talked about it was me not her. And so often's leaders it's always about them and not the leader. And so that was going to lead into my question and because I I what he shared is really how you build culture especially for high performing finance teams or high performing sales teams or executive teams it doesn't really matter.

Pink Flags And Onboarding Plans

Roy Richardson 47:58

You have to take that approach so when you're advising leaders what traits do you look for to protect culture and not just fill roles?

David Sprinkle 48:10

It's it it it is about understanding first and foremost there isn't going to be a perfect candidate. Because what happens is they sit down with HR and they write out their wish list of this is what I want in this role and I need everything to happen this way. And in many cases it's what the previous person did and how they did it and if they were really good at it or they weren't and so they want the opposite of that. And so it's usually because of some previous person that was in the role. So then they have this idealistic view of what they want and and so they they start looking for perfect. And so the first step is I have to remind them there is no perfect candidate. There's no perfect employee there's no perfect candidate. And and one of my mentors that I reported to back at my old company Bill DiMario he the first time I brought someone to him that I wanted to hire and he was going to hire him he he said okay before I before I interview this person I want to know what your flag assessment is. I said I don't know what you mean flag assessment. Flag assessment okay he said yeah so he he goes let me explain there's red flags and there's pink flags red flags we're walking away from this candidate I don't want to talk to him pink flags are there's something that's not quite right. He's like and if you don't have pink flags then you haven't asked enough questions you haven't dug in deep enough because no one's perfect. You should have some some sort of concern points. So those there's two types of pink flags typically one is it's a training learning and development issue. They don't have the knowledge yet but with the training and learn and development they can get there. Two it the other kind of a pink flag is this is just who they are. This is their circumstance maybe it's their could be their family situation could be just their personality could be something that's not going to change. There's no amount of training and development that can change this piece and it's not quite ideal. So if it's the not quite ideal personality or thing that's not going to change do you have a plan for how to accommodate that or how to mitigate the negatives of that trait if you don't have a plan then it's going to rear its ugly head and it's going to derail this higher the other kind from a training and development standpoint do you have a plan, an onboarding plan and do you have the bandwidth to be able to provide the training and development and what do you think the runway is and and the learning curve and is it going to be short enough in the in the bandwidth that you have so if you're not pre-planning for that and addressing and it's not universal it's person by person. So and each person is going to present a unique challenge when you hire them. And so if you're not thinking about that ahead of time then your onboarding is not going to be as successful as it could be. But if you have the plan and then you put it together then great. And so then I had to bring it to them every time if I brought a candidate I would also go here's my flags and then you go okay great those are things I'm going to dig into in my interview to try to give you clarity so that you can make this decision. I'm not going to decide whether you should hire them or not. I'm just going to give you clarity on the flags and so that you can make a good hiring decision. So I've taken that and and and really use it with the companies and the and the hiring managers that I work with to help them to think through it. Because most of them have no concept of onboarding or or assessing a candidate and how to set them up for success. That's not what they do for a living what they do for a living is the accounting or the finance or the FPNA work or the budgeting. They don't think about and strategically onboard and and think about how the how the hiring process and the onboarding process have to happen in order to have a successful person that's going to be there a year, two years three years down the road.

Books Buzzwords And Leadership Models

Sean Murphy 52:08

Right, right so let's do some quick hits real quick and and on these just you don't have to give a like you've done um with all of the other answers so give me some quick one book you recommend most and why I'd come back to seven habits of highly effective people.

David Sprinkle 52:26

I think that is that one is is those traits and if you can use them and think about them and it it can positively impact all aspects of your life not just business.

Sean Murphy 52:38

I've said for decades that and another book that you listed Napoleon Hills the How to Win Friends and Influence People that I've said that for decades that I think that those should be staples of high school senior year coursework. You know I'm saying this it's all about people man.

David Sprinkle 52:58

It is all about whether you make widgets or anything you it's all about people interactions and I remember the first time I got exposure to the senior VP of my company at my old company and and he was telling me about some of the things that they were dealing with. I said that you're dealing with the same stuff I'm dealing with seven levels below you at the at the at the branch level you're dealing with the same stuff. He's like yeah there's just more zeros at the end of that but it's still people issues.

Sean Murphy 53:28

There's still people I also one last thing about that and I and I and I'll move on is I really believe that that book teaches you not to covet other people's stuff that it teaches you about you and again what you said earlier first seek to understand to be understood right and so again if we if we understand what the neighbor has and how they got what they have we wouldn't necessarily covet what they have you know and so I love that book. Most overrated buzzwords in hiring these days buzzwords.

David Sprinkle 54:04

AI yeah I mean AI is is talked about it it's talked about in the news more than it is like I said with the hiring managers that I talk to okay. So you you you hear it way more in the news and the it's always usually from a negative how's this going to impact you know hiring and and layoffs and that's the only thing they report on and every now and then there's a little spotlight that where they they talk about how it's actually being used in in most companies which is to enhance productivity not to get rid of people that's usually the big right now it's been the big IT companies that have been doing that and and so it's overused right now but but it's it needs to be talked about but not sensationalized in a in a in a way that's scary. I think from a hiring standpoint the ability to communicate generationally we're still the the the the stereotypes on like the younger generation is is though those buzzwords that surround Gen Z and and and so forth that are mostly negative is that's just not the case. And and and people tend to embrace those stereotypes instead of saying okay well maybe on a broad sense there's some general trends but let me let me not have biases when I go to interview this 23 year old. And so checking our biases is important. And a lot of it comes from the buzzwords that surround right the Gen Zs I'm I I'm I'm blanking on right now on what some of those are but you but it that's the topic.

Sean Murphy 55:50

This was supposed to be a quick hit and you'd like you stood at the plate you thought about it a long time and now we're going to go we're going to slow it down for a moment but we can't slow it down too long because you you have a hard stop and so we want to make sure that we we we get through some of the other questions that we have.

David Sprinkle 56:07

David you've mentioned Warren Buffett John Wooden herb celle her before in conversations what do they all teach about leadership that still applies today I I love how the steady hand that Warren Buffett has and that how he portrays that in in his approach to his craft of investing and so every exposure that I've had whether it be reading one a book about him or through him and or that he's written or just hearing him talk over the over the years it's a very measured steady hand approach with a little bit of self-effacing humor. Not he, you know, he's at one point the richest man in the world yet didn't take himself too seriously. So those pieces I I've admired a lot. Her Kelleher with with Southwest I read that book nuts about the founding of Southwest and how that happened and there's a lot of takeaways from from that book and and from from that journey that that he took that airline on but the the thing that really resonated the most with me was that love was the kind of the centerpiece of kind of everything that they did and and they made it fun and and they loved on their people and and their people weren't just their employees but their their customers. And so for me that's been a impactful to have that perspective of we're humans especially in this day and age where AI is is becoming more prevalent. And I've gotten the calls from AI agents that sound human but they're not and there's no love there. And and so being able to love on the people that you're around is is an important aspect that I think is some people shy away from it in business and they don't think that that love has a place for it. And I think loving your people is a big part of it and and your people are everybody that you that are in your circle of influence and whether you're doing a podcast and me loving on you guys or my my employees you know or my coworkers or my clients so those are the things that that jump out the most and then Wooden just has time tested philosophies on work ethic and teamwork and following the process. I would venture to say that the Signeti and the Sabins probably have taken a lot from wooden in their approach to to coaching even though that's a different sport. It's the principles that apply.

Roy Richardson 58:40

So David if if you had the opportunity to put together a dream board of advisors from any point in time past or present who would be on your board and why?

David Sprinkle 58:52

I mean if I if I had the opportunity to get Buffett on that board I don't know that there's there's quite a better person to how to build wealth and and invest and invest in companies because see it wasn't just investing in stocks. I mean that company they invest in in companies and in people and so to have that somebody like that in my corner as an advisor would be would be pretty amazing. I definitely think that you know I've my my dad passed away three years ago and so I miss him as an advisor in my life both from a business standpoint and and just in life you know dealing with kids and you know he was he was there for me all through my kids' development but now he's gone and they're still going through those different phases of life now that I I I haven't been able to talk to him about it and and get his perspective. So I definitely would be bringing him back. I probably should have said him first. You know I think I go back and I look at at some of the Titans of industry at the beginning and you know the Biltmores of the world I I think that that that there's some wisdom there in terms of how they do it. And I know a lot of it was cutthroat back in the day in terms of building those monopolies but I've really started to to I've started reading a book about Rockefeller right now and that's one I'm I'm currently just starting to read and getting exposure to what he did and how he did it and what his philosophies are to drive success beyond you know building the monopoly and and driving your competitors out but but the good parts about it. And one of the things I just literally read last night was surrounding yourself with people that are motivated, have the skill and not being okay with medium you know that you're going for high and and that you've got to have people around you that have that similar mindset. So even little nuggets like that I start to look at and go, okay, you know what there's wisdom there in terms of who am I surrounding myself with on my team to be successful. So very cool.

Roy Richardson 1:00:58

And you you know they say you know you you could either fly with the eagles or hang with the pigeons.

Ten Year Vision And Lifestyle Business

Sean Murphy 1:01:02

So and you can't fly with eagles if you hang with the pigeons. That's right. That's right. So let's look ahead a bit ten years from now what does Veritas look like or what does success look like for for Veritas and for you personally?

David Sprinkle 1:01:17

Yeah Veritas has always been a lifestyle business for me from the get-go. My dad traveled a lot when I was he was in sales and and had a big territory and so he was gone a lot visiting customers and so I didn't that was the one thing I didn't like growing up was my my dad not being able to be there every day. And he was very present and he coached and all the things and made time but there'd be a week or two weeks where he'd be gone and and we were just talking on the telephone you know at the dinner time and on the check-in. So for me this has always been a lifestyle business and and so I I know I could have put the hammer down if I wanted to and and expand into other geographies and and 10x this thing but that would take a lot from me and from my family. And so for me the balance of of why I'm doing this and why I do this business is is because it's a it's a vehicle to bless my family and and we put that in our mission statement that that it's that we want this business to be a blessing for our colleagues and their families. And so if we're asking and and demanding of things that unduly take away from their family it it always is a trade off work is a trade-off with the other things that you could be doing. But for me 10 years from now my life's gonna be a little bit different. I've got an eighth grader right now so in 10 years she'll be out of college and so we will be real deal empty nesters and I'll be in my low 60s and looking at so I so quite frankly I don't really know if am I going to be is my wife and I gonna be in an RV you know running around the country like going to wherever our kids are trying to visit grandkids maybe or are they going to come back to us and then I've and then I'll have the opportunity maybe to do a little bit more expansion of of what we're doing. But this like I said this has always been a a lifestyle business and it's I'm I haven't ever been a in a position where I said I'm gonna grow this to sell it. And and so you do that by scaling it in many many cases and I don't have to scale it right now.

Sean Murphy 1:03:27

Got it got it well we're going to wrap this thing up knowing that you have somewhere to be soon. So David really good conversation. What stands out to me isn't just what you do it's how consistent you show up. Through market swings, new technology and all of the noise that comes with this industry that you're in you've stayed grounded in relationships, trust and long-term thinking that steadfastness has always been a big part of why people respect you, why leaders keep coming back to you. I know a lot of the folks listening in to hear this perspective today. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your story with us.

Roy Richardson 1:04:11

My pleasure appreciate you guys having me on yeah David thank you for bringing clarity and depth to a topic that's often reduced to speed metrics or buzzwords. Your story reinforces that leadership hiring and growth are ultimately human endeavors shaped by judgment thrust and consistency over time. And what really comes through is your discipline around playing the long game even when it would be easier to follow the noise that perspective is something leaders at every level can learn from we genuinely appreciate you spending the time with us and sharing that lens today David thank you very much.

Sean Murphy 1:04:45

Good to be here thanks for having me guys finally to our audience thank you for tuning in to the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast.

Roy Richardson 1:04:52

And until next time stay curious stay driven and keep leading with purpose of the Dynamic Business Leaders Podcast are you a business owner or leader of a successful business? If yes we'd love to have you as a guest on our program. Our goal is simple we provide a platform for leaders to share their experiences to benefit others. We want to hear your story how you got started the challenges you faced along the way and your passion today. If this sounds like you or you know someone who fits these criteria then be sure to get in touch with us by visiting our website linked in the episode description below. Also don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and click the notification bell to be notified when our next episode goes live or if you'd rather listen to us during your car rides you can also follow us on your favorite audio channel using your podcatcher. Thanks again and remember keep crushing it