Another Mans Shoes
Interviews with fellow military veterans and adventurers about their experiences of war, the lows and times of hardship, joining them on their journey and how this has shaped their lives in the most extraordinary way. Comedy moments, dark humour and witty banter.
Another Mans Shoes
Big Phil Campion, Born Fearless - S1E1
What does it take to overcome a childhood filled with turmoil and rise to the elite ranks of the military? Meet Big Phil Campion, whose incredible journey from a difficult upbringing to an accomplished career in the Special Forces is nothing short of inspiring. We talk about his adoption, life in a middle-class family marred by his father's alcoholism, and the bullying he endured in children's homes. Despite these hurdles, Phil found his way through a government-run Youth Training Scheme, setting his path to enlist in the military just before turning 18.
Phil shares the highs and lows of his military career, from the rigorous training at the Royal Regiment to the life-altering decision to join the Commando course and P Company. With personal stories and vivid descriptions, he recounts the grueling physical demands and the camaraderie that define military life. We also discuss the ambition that drove him to attempt Special Forces selection and his eventual success in 1997, capturing the essence of determination and resilience required in the military.
Finally, we address the critical issue of mental health within the military, as Phil opens up about his struggles post-service. From a stint in prison to rebuilding his life from the ground up, his candid reflections shed light on systemic failures and the importance of mental health support. Phil's story of redemption, from living in a caravan to carving out a career in television, serves as a powerful reminder that it's never too late to turn your life around. Join us as we explore Phil's journey and the valuable lessons he offers for overcoming life's toughest challenges.
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Welcome to Another Man's Shoes. Today we've got on with us, big Phil Campion. Big Phil well known. He's former commando airborne soldier, 22sas mercenary, author, tv personality and internet influencer. He has crammed a lot in the last few years. So let's hear his story.
Speaker 2:Hello, thanks for having me Looking forward to having a chat. No, thanks for having me looking forward to having a chat we always enjoy your chats.
Speaker 1:I follow you on Instagram and we've caught up in the past at different events and I think you've always got something to say and everyone enjoys listening to it not always, right who cares?
Speaker 1:no PC on this show and I think obviously one of the first things we do, the whole idea of the show it's a journey through your shoes where you come from, what makes Phil Campion, and where you're sort of going. I mean, I think you've got some really interesting things to say tonight and I know we're going to all enjoy following your journey into the future. But I suppose, starting at the beginning, where do you come from? What's the sort of early childhood story?
Speaker 2:The early childhood was pretty grim, to be honest. I was adopted from a family in london who, uh, who, had me out of wedlock, you know I mean. So that was the, that was the showstopper. Phil's got to go, like you know I mean. Um, luckily, I sort of like I got terminated at the stage when I was outside, not inside, or else I wouldn't even be here. So, um, yeah, uh, I was brought up by a middle-class family in Southampton who split up after about six years. My old man had a drink problem. He knocked my mother about, he knocked me about.
Speaker 2:I wasn't particularly good at school. I messed about. I suspect I would have been diagnosed with something like ADHD nowadays. So eventually I went through the school system, but I dropped out early, having been sent to a public school in Oxford where I completely messed it all up, ended up full-time in children's homes, where I had a pretty rough ride there as well, bullied, I'd experienced, paedophilia, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, not good.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I ended up getting a job on the yts, on the youth training scheme, which was a scheme by the government for those that don't know that paid 25 pound a month and I I'd be rent paid and all that sort of stuff. And I was working out of a place called council activity center in as a skiing instructor, come boatyard technician, and it was cushy, it was all right, it was good fun. And from there the guy that the guy that was in charge of that place asked me if I'd had any experience with the military and I said yes, and at the end of my two-year term he said look, there's no job here for you because you know my only qualification I was a cycle proficiency and I took that twice. Do you know what I mean? So it was like I had nothing and he, he sort of like goaded me down to the careers office. He couldn't get me down there quick enough and they were recruiting at the time, as they always are, and that was it.
Speaker 2:I've done my little sort of egg box text, or whatever it's called, and pop your uncle infantry for you. My friend, off you go. And that was it. So that my childhood, that was. That was sort of the briefest summary of my childhood ever, but yeah, it was, it wasn't great so yeah, yeah, that was a proper rocky start.
Speaker 1:then I mean, when you sort of look back on your childhood, I can't imagine was there any fond memories or is there anything you look at particularly and think that sort of helped shape you, made you where you are today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know right and I always say this to people, I always say about getting a positive from a negative and I remember getting beat up by huge man and he used to sit on top of me and punch me and I remember the first time it happened I was really scared and the second time it happened I was not so scared and the third time it happened I thought actually I'm getting quite used to this, it's all right, it's not as bad If I don't wriggle about so much, he doesn't hit me as hard and in a strange way, the only basically, you know, I mean, and it was like, although that's pretty sad.
Speaker 1:It was my way of changing, adjusting my mind to deal with it. Yeah, so trying to bring sort of positive to the situation. Am I going to work?
Speaker 2:unwillingly, unwittingly, I was already, you know, as a small lad, always searching for something positive. That's one of my biggest lessons in life is that. You know, you've got to and I've had. You know I've been at points in my life especially my child at that low, when I could get under a snake's belly with a fucking top hat on, like do you know what I mean? But it's always been for me about trying to find a positive and move on.
Speaker 1:I think obviously where you went from there. That I think obviously where you went from there. That proves that you know you've got that resilience to basically take the situation and turn it to your advantage. So what age were you like when you joined the military?
Speaker 2:I tried to join when I was 16 years old as a junior soldier and I had a criminal conviction for a junior criminal conviction for violence. I was turned away and they said to me if you can keep out of trouble for the next year, we'll have another look at you. Well, I didn't get in trouble for two years because I did this YTS scheme. So that took me up to just before my 18th birthday when I got in and obviously I kept myself out of trouble in the meantime.
Speaker 1:So the YTS scheme was a big positive in your life then it was a big positive in your life then to help turn things around.
Speaker 2:It was a massive positive because, you know, for the first time in my life I had my own money. I was living in a string of shitholes, but I did have, you know, I did have the support of knowing that I had a job. The staff down at the Calshire Activity Centre were very good, they were very tolerant and I was doing stuff I enjoyed. And this is another thing I always say to people if you find something you enjoy, you're more likely to stick in it than if you do something just for the sake of the money at the end of it or whatever. Do you know? I mean, you've got to find something you enjoy, and if you do, it's not work, and if you don't, then it's hideous yeah, that's true, and I think a lot of people can relate to that, especially this year.
Speaker 1:Um so I don't know if they'd even do things like the yts scheme anymore. I don't know if that's one of the things that's in days gone past.
Speaker 2:All that's gone. All that's gone. So I don't know what they do nowadays. But there's similar schemes for young people to get involved with nowadays, which you know. I'll try and point out where I can. There's the mbtcs, the military preparation colleges. They're really good nowadays, um. So there are a few things you can get by. It's tough being a kid nowadays. You know it was tough in our day, but it's tough now and there's not a lot out there and with the last year's events it's really turned things upside down for a lot of people. Do you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, it has. Well, I suppose we'll see where that takes us next year. So Military career you joined, was it the Hampshire Regiment? It?
Speaker 2:was the Royal.
Speaker 1:Army. Oh, I see, took away your proper position we're rumbling. So you joined the good old Royals. Not that good. They're not around anymore, are they?
Speaker 2:No, no, no. We was amalgamated with the Queen's Regiment, so it was all handbags at dawn, literally to become the Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment, of which I was a member of the 2nd Battalion. So yeah, and they've gone on to do some decent stuff. You know, you've got Bahari knocking out the VCs, you've got Untold Military Cross. They've done all right. They've turned themselves into a decent unit, which is cool.
Speaker 1:They have. And actually I did a couple of tours with PWR. When you were with PWR, you were with the PWRR. You obviously you enjoyed the physical side of life and you did P Company and the Commando course. Was that all sort of part and parcel?
Speaker 2:The Commando course. Purely by fluke. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. We had a big engineer attached to us in a tour of Londonderry and I was in the. I was the duty runner in the office and a phone call came in to ask if this private Boov his name was, if he was ready to go to Limston. And the site manager went Boov, you're having a laugh. He said he spent the last six months in a naffy. Do you know what I mean? He says there's no chance he goes. You know BFT to him means big fat twat. Do I heard the bloke on the other end of the phone? And he turned around and he says he says if you've got anybody, we'd fancy it. And I literally leapt across the desk and goes me, me, me, me, I'll do it, I'll do it. And he was like yeah, yeah, I've got someone right here right now.
Speaker 1:And literally the next day I packed my kit, and the day after I left, no training sort, I went to Limston and that was it.
Speaker 2:yeah, and I would have got the Commando medal in Limston if we hadn't have been on the infamous course which took the bus on the endurance course. Where is it? Well, you're supposed to walk up to the start of the endurance course, right? And we had this sergeant, chris Joynston his name was, and he booked a coach, but he booked it from the mt, the bloody idiot. So they knew. So. When we got to the start of the endurance course, they were waiting for us and they beasted everybody at the end of the tour. So I was told I would have got the commander medal, but they decided there and then not to give it anybody to anybody on that course, because everyone on the course got on the bus.
Speaker 1:so everybody's integrity was, was was compromised by getting on that bus, which was, you know there you go, make life easy where you can, and so did you serve in the commander unit then, or was it back to pw?
Speaker 2:I literally I got me buried in the field. That was the last time and only time I ever wore it. The next time I went down there, um was to have a couple of beers with bear grills and go and see some of the recruits going through training now. And I thought I remember walking around with the CO down there at the time, mike Tanner and we were walking across the bottom field and I'm like trying to do this funny little dance like I'm doubling, like I'm like you ain't made a walk on here, boss. Do you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean he's going no, no, calm down, he just felt. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like being back at Cataract. We've got to run everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they're doing this weird dance behind him. He's like what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 1:And then, how long after that, did you decide to crack P Company?
Speaker 2:Well, when we amalgamated we ended up in part five airborne brigade and every battalion had to have an airborne platoon, yeah, and so I got told I could do my jumps through having done the commando course. But I just thought it was wrong because everybody else had done P company and I knew if I went and just did my jumps course, everyone would go you shouldn't be wearing that. Do you know what I mean? So I just went and did it anyway.
Speaker 1:So you're well placed. I mean, I never did the commando course, I did P Company and I've got to be honest, I thought it was pretty nails. And for anyone out there, p Company is basically the parachute selection you have to do. It's a four or five week course and it's an absolute thrashing and anyone that serves in the airborne forces will know what I'm talking about. But one of the big debates that the soldiers have is you know what's harder? Sort of P company, the commando courses? Everyone's got their own opinion. But you've been in Dumbo.
Speaker 2:How would you rate them? I'm going to say they're both. They're both extremely tough courses, but I think you have to do a little bit more thinking to get through through your commando course, because there is actually soldiering on the course, whereas opposed to P company, which is just literally fist and boot violence from start to finish. Start to finish, isn't it? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:It's like you start that course, it's three, four sessions of every day, do you know what I mean? And just bash, bash, bash, bash, bash all the way through, whereas Limston take you down there for slightly longer, but you do do some soldiering in between. You do a patrol exercise, you do an OP exercise, you do some basic skills and drills and all that sort of stuff. Do you know I mean which, to me, was quite good fun. So if you said to me which one did I enjoy the most, you'd have to put your hand up and say, honestly, I enjoyed the commando course because we did some soldiering on it. If you had to say which one was harder, I would probably have to say, in fairness, p company, because it's just a straight bash from start to finish. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, completely fresh the moment you turn up that said.
Speaker 2:I do remember I was part of the course where at the end of it the brigadier asked one of my mates how he found it and he said he'd had a hard and long weekend.
Speaker 1:So I'm not saying anything there but you must have some hard and long weekends. I was talking, he's just finished B company and uh he says you got, you know any tips for.
Speaker 1:Or just before he went on it and he was taught, I said look at the water bottle, make sure you fill that water bottle up, cause if it's got, if it's one millimeter below the rim, you know that cold water is going over your head. He's like no, no, no, put the pebble in it and make the water overflow. I was like fucking hell, you clever bastard.
Speaker 2:I wish I'd thought of that I remember we we did a beat up with the log battalion and they were based out of browning barracks and uh, they did. They did nothing but thrash us because we were the infantry battalion. So they just there was, 12 of us went and they thrashed us. Anyway, when we went down there, the battalion 2ic had said to me look, he was airborne, trained. And he said can you just make, can you just keep a log of what you're doing down there? He said, because I don't know if it's going to be worth sending the next lot down there. So I kept this log anyway in my log book. I had this notebook and I'd written down everything they made us do. So I was like, yeah, we had to iron our denims this morning.
Speaker 2:They gave us a show and I was just holding them bullshitters and all that and saying how fucking they treated us like cunts and all that, and I wrote these big long-winded texts about. You know fucking how shit they treated us and how crap it was and how easy the fucking course was and all this shit. Anyway, we come in off this fucking tab and they took us into the gym and I the room picked up my notebook and he started reading from my notebook. Of course nobody else knows. So he's reading these fucking notes and everyone else's fucking shoulders are going. They're laughing and I'm thinking to myself oh my fucking god, he's got me notebook anyway. It was about 60 people on the course at this stage and they thrashed us. They absolutely thrashed us in this gym session, but the upshot of it was all 12 of us remained and they lost about 20 blokes.
Speaker 1:All right, they just jacked it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just jacked, absolutely walked out.
Speaker 1:It was ridiculous, but there you go and then, off the back of that, you went and served up at 5 air. That was probably at Aldershot, was it around that time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we were in Canterbury, that's where we were. You In Canterbury, that's where we were. You had three para up in Dover. We were in Canterbury and then obviously the main of it was down in Aldershot or wherever it was.
Speaker 2:At the time we didn't do nothing airborne. We did nothing. I mean, I think, to qualify for your jumps. You used to have to go and do a jumps program now and again you got treated like complete crap because you weren't para-reg and that was it. That was it. Do you know what I mean? So you just go, you go down there. You always end up putting the chutes away and picking things up and all the rest of this shit. The paris didn't want to do and I don't think we did. We didn't do an airborne exercise once in the two years. But what was nice was you've got your parapace. I was quite happy about that. Yeah, on the downside, or they want to wear their berets? Well, that's all very nice and well, but when there's only 15 of you in the battalion, every time something goes wrong, you get the fucking shit for it. Do you know what I mean? It was just like a shit magnet on your head.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and so I mean talk of this shit magnet you used to get yourself in a bit of trouble.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean I've been busted, I think, twice or three times, down to Tom, once from Fools Crew, I think, and once from Lance Jet or something like that yeah, I did get in a fair amount of trouble.
Speaker 2:I think one of the CO's said that I had a chequered past. Do you know what I mean? Cam Gin's conduct is chequered, that sort of thing. But it was what you call soldiers crimes. It was all fighting, it was all fighting downtown and all that sort of thing. Do you know what I mean? But it was what you call soldier's crimes. It was all fighting, you know, it was all you know, fighting downtown and all that sort of stuff which is you know. I think, to be honest, at the time it was a fair one. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:It was part and parcel, wasn't it? Sort of the routine life. That was what sort of probably.
Speaker 2:I think it was, and don't forget, when we amalgamated, you'd already worked out the pecking order in your battalion, and when we amalgamated, it was like you had to work out that pecking order again. So guys were sort of jostling for positions up the ladder, as it were. Do you know what I mean? So it was like, yeah, you just needed to find out who was what. So it all went off again, didn't it?
Speaker 1:That's quite normal, isn't it? A? It's all friendly.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So at what point did you say to yourself I've had enough of the sort of the green life and I'm going to try for the SAS?
Speaker 2:Well what it was. Um, I did P company. I came back and whilst I was on P company I thought I'll tell you what with the amalgamation on. I'm going to ask you if I can go to power edge, because they're up in Dover, it's only down the road. I quite fancy a bit of transfer on the power rich right. So I had a word around with a couple of people and I went no, no, you've got no chance, they ain't going to let you. So I thought, no fuck that I won't give up. So I went on to the telephone exchange and I got the brigade commander, who was a guy called Johnny Holmes. I got Johnny Holmes' phone number, his direct line, and I phoned him up. And I got him, as you do, all right. And I phoned him up and I said it's Lance Corporal Campion from the Princesses' Waleses, regiment sir. I said I've just passed by your company and I'd like to be posted to Dover to free Parham when they move on out to Omar. Could I go there please? And he went Lance Corporal, yes, yes, of course you can. Where are you from, son? Princess of Wales as well. Regiment sir.
Speaker 2:Anyway, by the time I didn't walk back to the block. I could hear someone in RHQ yelling Camp here, camp here. It was the RSM, you'd already got back. He phoned up the CO direct. The CO had marched in the RSM. The RSM had come yelling out looking for me. So I'm making my way over.
Speaker 2:As I come down the stairs, the accident goes Campion. He goes you better fucking have some answers this time. He goes you fucking reached your ceiling in an afternoon, you idiot. So I goes upstairs and I'm already in the frame of mind for an argument now right. So I goes upstairs. The RSM is just about to go past the CO's office to get to the RSM. I'm walking towards the RSM's office and the CO goes don't bother going down there camp, you can get in here.
Speaker 2:So I sort of like side right into his office and he started giving me this loyalties lecture about you know who the hell do you think you are? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said you've got no loyalty to this regiment. I said so. I said in all fairness, I fairness. I said three weeks ago I was wearing a completely different cap badge. I said who's in check here? Do you know what I mean? Anyway, that was it. He just melted RSM. He screamed at RSM.
Speaker 2:Rsm's pulled me out. He's had a scream at me and the battalion two I see was a guy called Major Egan, lovely bloke, airborne, trained. He'd been in charge of the Pathfinder platoon. I think He'd been in charge of the Pathfinder platoon. I think he goes. Get in here quick. He goes. Get in here, he goes. You fucking idiot. He goes.
Speaker 2:You've reached the ceiling you really have in an afternoon. He said there's nothing left here for you. He says you've got two choices, the way I see it. I said what's happening, boss? He says you either go on, special Forces finished. He goes, you've done it. He goes well done. So I said, right, I'll fucking, I'll do SF selection. Then, sir, I'll do that, I'll put my paperwork in, and that he goes, go on and off, you go. And so, anyway. Then they wouldn't let me go because we had this operational tour of Omar coming up and the CO goes, no. And he said to me if you give me two years, he said I'll let you go. I passed selection. I said get in on it, do you know? Because he was a murderer. Yeah, so anyway, after all, this for all, anyway, I give him a year in the end. You know, there was a ceasefire and he let me train and go to selection and I passed first time and I was in luck. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:So what year was that you hit selection?
Speaker 2:97.
Speaker 1:Okay 97. Yeah, yeah, that was getting when it was getting, a couple of years before it started getting really interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got out right when it got proper interesting. I was sort of going down the road again. I was off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the problem here, isn't it? Some people have long careers and other ones aren't so long.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is what it is, but yeah, I had a good time there.
Speaker 1:So anyone who's listening to this, obviously you can probably answer this pretty well. If they're thinking about going on selection, there's always that. That's the other debate. Winter course, summer course which one do you?
Speaker 2:do. I'm heavy set, you know, so winter course all day for me. I like a bit of hardship like that. I'm heavy set, you know, so winter course all day for me. I like a bit of hardship like that. I don't like the racing snake season. I don't run particularly fast. In fact nowadays I can roll faster than I can run anyway. So I'm for getting up a hill in the snow mate. Do you know what I mean? I can hold me own.
Speaker 1:And that big old monkey on your back. That's a good old leveller events. Everyone sort of excelled. You know the runners or the tabbers, you know, depending on if they're carrying weight, but on selection it is just all weight and it is just long and yeah, and it's all uphill.
Speaker 2:It's all uphill, you know well, apart from Eland Valley. You go to Eland Valley and it's like it's just those babies and you go like great in it.
Speaker 1:Oh, they're horrible. Then you, I want to get back on the hills, but you know it's bad when you'd actually rather go up a hill than down a hill, because it would hurt your toenails less, because you might lose no, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm still like that today because of the weight in me. I went up a mountain the other week and it's just than you did.
Speaker 1:And so what would you say? The hardest part of selection was about the sort of four or five different phases, jungle hills, you know what? The hills?
Speaker 2:phase got. The hills phase is definitely up there, and I'll tell you why. The jungle phase is extremely hard. All right, it's, it's. It's long, it's hard, it's laborious. You're in, you're in, you know, an area which is like like north wales, but it's covered in trees, it rains, everyone wants you dead, everyone wants to hold you back. You've got thorns, you've got insects, you've got all that stuff going on and you're trying to learn stuff. That said, you are learning stuff in the trees and you are enjoying it because it is soldiering, so you're enjoying it. The trees I love the trees, although arduously, it was probably worse than the hills. The hills is just every day monkey on walk, monkey on walk, day in, day out, walking up and down hills. You know if you can navigate, well, you can navigate, can't you see? I mean, so that's not gonna. That's not particularly challenging, is it? So, yeah, I thought I thought the hills was particularly tedious.
Speaker 1:If I'm honest, it was strenuous and tedious yeah, I think a lot of people say the hills is navigation and injury. As long as you can get through both of those, you've got a reasonable level of finish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then you get into the trees and some guys you know yourself, some guys get into the trees and at the end of the day they'll hold their hands up and go this seriously isn't worth it anymore, do you know?
Speaker 1:what I mean. Yeah, but then you see blokes come out of the trees and you think how did they just get, how did they fail that? You know they come back to hereford. They think they got it in the bag. You know we had a number of guys from our regiment. We thought they're they're slam dunks, they're definitely through, and they see now they've got to stand up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we got, we got. We got. We got people stand up, failed, we found out if you passed or failed while we were still in the camp over there. So, yeah, the old grim re Reaper came and dragged you off your scratcher and you went and sat in one part of camp and people who passed went and sat in another. It was quite bizarre. It was like oh, what an atmosphere. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I said to me mate, because I'd passed and I had another mate. He passed as well, and I was like I want to run around camp jumping up and down doing backflips, but I can't because all those guys over there some of them are quite good guys, you know what I mean they've all failed and they feel like terrible. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, but they get another opportunity. I suppose the good thing is, if you fail at that point and it's your first go, you get a chance to come back yeah, well, I mean some, some, I can see it in their faces.
Speaker 2:That's one of the questions people ask me a lot. If I'd have failed, would I have gone back to do it again? And I honestly can't tell you that, but I don't feel at the time that I would have felt like it. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:It was rose-tinted, didn't it? Give it six months, you think, oh wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2:Those long drops, they weren't. Yeah, it was all right. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So when you finish that, you sort of because you'd already done your jumps course, so do you go straight on and do your halo or that sort of.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't do all right. So here's a funny one about my jumps course. So I did my jumps course. So if you've done your jumps, you got stood down for a week while everybody else did basic jumps, while they did the old 22-foot steerables right, which is a round shoot with a steerable. So I thought to myself right, I'll tell them what, I'll just bluff it and say that because they didn't do a proper check, they just said who's done 22-foot steerable. I went yeah, I've done it. Because I thought to myself, it's only a round shoot.
Speaker 1:How difficult can it be?
Speaker 2:I was like, fuck it, I'll just so. I got the weekend off. Come back on the Monday and we're doing a water jump off of Brownsea Island, right, and you've got the 22 foot steering wheel on. Anyway, the first thing I know about it. I picked this chute up and I thought what the fuck's that? I'm looking at this thing. It's got the old cape belts on it. It's a totally different rig. I'm like, oh my god. So I flagged my way into this parachute today. He's like, yeah, no problem. So he's done it up. Yeah, you're right, just give it a check, mate. I said I'll put a stiff, so he sticks me in it.
Speaker 2:Right, we get on the plane. I'm waiting for it. I'm waiting, they've lined us up and I'm like we ain't going out the side door, we must be going off the back. I've never done that before either. So I'm like, oh my god, here we go. I'm the second one to go, all right, so I'm the second one coming out this plane. So I've only got one chance to see how you do it, and then I'm fucked. Do you know what I mean? So I'm like the ramp comes down, we're up there, we get booked on and all that sort of stuff and we're tapping each other on the elbow. Yeah, one, two, three, four, five, tell off All that sort of stuff, right? So I'm still on the ramp. Red comes on. I'm thinking fuck it, boom, he's gone, he's straight down. I don't really see him go, so I just hurl myself out. I'm almost sort of diving out. I look a right mess. Anyway, I come out, pop 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, check canopy. Look up, there's a fucking hole in it. I'm like shit, fuck, ah, I start yelling.
Speaker 2:I'm like, ah, right, I'm yelling and I'm like and then I realise I'm only doing two miles an hour. And then, when I look around, oh, he's just got an old and old. It has an old, hasn't it anyway, because he's so quiet. They've heard me yelling down. The folks in the safety boat have heard me fucking scream. What was the matter up there, mate? Oh, nothing, nothing, no, I've got my nuts caught in there.
Speaker 1:No bluff too tough. No, my instructor said you've got to remember two things. He goes your parachute always wants to open and whatever happens, you will land. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought that's reassuring when I thought about it.
Speaker 2:Every jump's a night jump for me. Yeah, see what I was going to say, oh man, we were in Africa last year.
Speaker 1:I thought about it. Every jump's a night jump for me. Yeah, see what ways it's shut. Oh man, we were in. We were in Africa last year. Similar story. And we're driving through this sort of dusty old place, we're riding on these motorbikes and we saw this old airfield and it said you know, parachute here and I thought I'll pull in there.
Speaker 1:We popped in and this old, rickety old plane lands and I speak to the instructor. I said, oh, can I have a little jump, can I mate? And he went, have you jumped? I said yeah, yeah, yeah, loads, mate, loads, loads. And he goes. All right, he chucked me this rig. I mean I'm well out of date at this point. And he chucks me this rig and he's like come on, let's go. Yeah, it costs like 20 quid or something stupid. And I go up on this plane up to 15,000. And he opened the door first out. I was like, oh my God, never jumped. You know. Same, similar situation, sort of out. At what positions do I need to be in? I was like fuck it in for a penny. And all that did that was a fantastic exit, great recovery.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I jumped, doing it all the time yeah, it's incredible what you go for we can't dwell too much on the SF career sort of things, but you've got a few interesting journeys there.
Speaker 2:Did you a couple good ops yeah, we was always in and out of the Balkans at that stage, and then obviously Sierra Leone I was on that, there's no secret there not giving anything away, but I was saying I was on fucking up Barris, yeah.
Speaker 1:Did you do both of them? Because there was two ops.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I went out just purely for the part where the royal irish got taken. So I wasn't out for the main, for the, for the, for the other operation.
Speaker 1:It was there, no, just just the hostage one yeah, we were running the net on the uh, the royal irish, and then in the trees for the other one. But I mean that was. That was pretty quickly put together yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:I mean, we were, we were in exercise in Kenya one minute and then the next, the next, we were getting ready to go, like do you know what I mean? So it was, yeah, it was quite. That was probably. You know, that was, that was my big thing, that was, you know, that was probably. You know, in terms of, in terms of operations, that was probably the best thing I did, to be honest that was big.
Speaker 1:Oh, you were on Kenya, so that was yeah. Well, there was obviously there was a nasty accident on that, wasn't there? A couple of guys got seriously hurt yeah, that was yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, mark, you know that was on the way back to being recovered to go and do this we recovered from there back to. Hereford for the funeral. Literally in the wake, got told that we was going to be deploying. Almost turned around straight away, kit pack gone yeah, it's relentless, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I suppose there's no time to sort of think about these things, which is something we'll touch base later and it's not until years later when your sort of mind slows down, you start reflecting on bloody hell.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just a whirlwind yeah, I was only there four or five years, but you know he, it was good, so that was you know.
Speaker 1:So you sort of decided to leave Hereford, Sort of thought. Right, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had a few run-ins we checked and passed, started catching up with me a bit. I'm always honest about this. You know, I fell on my sword, I PBR'd, but it could have gone either way.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean I could have ended up getting RTU'd. I would. So I PDR'd after that operation. I ain't going to get no better than that ever. That's the one I did. I got out on the 1st of September 2001 and obviously a few days later I'm sat at home going fuck it now, you twat let me back, let me back yeah, that was that, so yeah so how did that work out?
Speaker 1:so you, do you ever try, do you try to get back to Hereford, or you sort of went private.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I don't think that avenue was even open to me, because what happened was, because I PBR, they moved my paperwork to Hereford, so I was sort of like I'd gone full Hereford or nothing. Do you know what I mean? So I couldn't even go back to the PWR at that stage because that my paperwork was heralded, so that that avenue probably wasn't open for me. Then, um, and I decided, right, looking at it, I'll probably be able to get some half decent work in afghanistan. And sure enough, you know, within a couple of months I was, I was heading up a team in a in a european embassy over there. So, yeah, earning, earning for the first time in my life, proper money, like you know, I mean.
Speaker 1:And how was that over there?
Speaker 2:you there for a while yeah, I was there for three years. I really enjoyed it. I had a great time. I've met some great people, learned lots about lots of different stuff that I've never done before. Um traveled around afghanistan all over the place with an ambassador, you know, introduced to hammer cars. I met all sorts of high-flying diplomat people, which is a world I've never, ever, ever seen before. So it was all new, it was all different, it was all good. It was a very interesting time and place to be, to be seeing what I was seeing, which was the European Commission getting its teeth into a sort of capacity-building fucking regime over there to help the Afghan people. It was really interesting.
Speaker 1:Did you go back to Afghan. So you did that three years out there. Have you ever been back there since?
Speaker 2:No, no, I haven't. Not just because there's been no work there, I just haven't gone.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? I'd love to go back to be honest. It'd be interesting to see people that were out there in the early days compared to how the country has change.
Speaker 2:There was a guy. There was a guy, a little corner shop here, one of these little corner shops built into his wall and we used to call him Ronnie Barker because he was open all hours. He never went past and he wasn't open and me and a friend of mine bought him a bread making machine so that he could make sliced bread, because the embassies all want to slice bread. Anyway, it went so well he ended up with about 20 machines in it and I reckon he probably owns a cooperative of shops over there. Now He'll probably be a multi-millionaire. I want my bread-making machine back.
Speaker 2:With a bit of interest, I'm going to take it to Syria and see if I can make some money out there.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the next place, isn't it? Do you do Syria? Have you been out there and done any correspondence?
Speaker 2:No, I've made that documentary for Sky News and went to Syria, went on the front line at Sinjar, went all up into Al-Hasakah yeah, went all over the place. Yeah, I had a great time over there and saw a lot of action over there, which was good.
Speaker 1:How did that compare to Afghans? The people and the environment?
Speaker 2:Again, you know the YPG and those sorts of people. First time I ever saw women on the front line and they were phenomenal. They were really, really cool people. I really enjoyed my time with them. Uh, yeah, I had a great time there. So they they were a similar sort of animal, but yeah, very, very nice people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's a shame what's happened over there. You've been ravaged. It's such a wonderful place, yeah.
Speaker 2:Prior to all this. Yeah, I mean I know I think all of the girls that I met are dead now, that's horrendous.
Speaker 2:They were all. It was never looking good for them and they were. You know, the front line was sort of it was fluid, it was always moving and they got caught behind it and they were losing people left, right and centre over there. I mean, they were trained, but not phenomenally well. They were struggling and if it came on top they were getting whacked left, right and centre. And certainly when I went although it wasn't the Syrians so much when I went down to Sinjar and spent some time down there, it was absolute chaos. It was just belt fed incoming for the whole time we were there and there's no real organisation, I suppose the troops there.
Speaker 2:To be fair, their ammunition conservation was really good with some of them, and they had to be because they knew that they couldn't get the resupply and even sometimes the resupply wouldn't come because they physically didn. They physically didn't have it. So they'd learned, you know, they'd learned lots of skills that had possibly been born out of being in battle. Do you know what? I mean? That they they'd been forced upon them. So it was quite interesting to see how people that hadn't received a massive level of training had adapted to you level of training had adapted to. You know. Some of these guys have been down there three or four months, day in, day out, full on firefights, every day. Do you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean they're getting some real experience. Was any of your past able to come in and help you? Did you have any instances where you thought this is getting close and you're fortunate to be able to fall back on experience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean some of it was on film. I mean I come down, we got, we got, we went along this track to film these, film these guys, and we actually ended up behind a small team of ISIS who were fighting sort of like over the top of and we were trapped in between the two and we literally had to wait for it to calm down and we sprinted up this like bun line and got ourselves back onto the right side of the fence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how I mean working with people like Sky.
Speaker 2:News and what have you? What are the correspondents like? I mean, they're used to this or are they flapping? No, this is the thing.
Speaker 2:So when I went to Syria, the reason that I went in the first place was because they they didn't have the capability or a correspondent that could get half the things that I got out there, and the success really was my undoing within Sky, because all of a sudden, I remember being interviewed by Eamon Holmes and he said well, why did, why did you go, phil? Why didn't they send one of our people? I said well, eamon. I said when you watch the football? I said I know you like football, eamon.
Speaker 2:I said who makes the better pundit? Gary Lineker or some yocker that's never kicked a ball in his life? I said, of course it's Gary Lineker, isn't it? I said, well, I'm a soldier. That's primarily what my business is and I, you know, my primary role within the regiment was information gathering and I, like you know, I like to think that I can bring back information and spread it out accurately, because if I can't, then my colleagues are going to be at danger should they have to go and act upon the information I've just brought them.
Speaker 2:So I said I'm perfect place to go behind enemy lines or go into a situation you know, with a limited small team I'm happy to operate there and bring you back the results I did, which are phenomenal. And he agreed with me. But of course, the other fucking, the other Sky correspondents all complained about me, all said he's not qualified to do this, he's not qualified to do that, he shouldn't get another show. You can't send him. They should have been sending us and of course, because they are all so clicky down there, it resulted in me not getting another crack at a whip really.
Speaker 1:That's a shame, because I remember seeing a couple of those. They're brilliant.
Speaker 2:It was a real shame. It was a real shame because the documentary the documentary I mean Ross Kemp was one of the biggest people who were behind pushing me out because it just made him look a complete idiot well, old henno, yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a few of the blokes have met him. Obviously, you did afghan and stuff and uh, I think he portrays that character on tv, but I think he's anything but behind the scenes. No, he's absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, no, no. He's nothing like it. He doesn't you know. His response was he then made his own documentary, feigned a Firefight. Do you know what I mean? It's just absolute. And my thing still had more hits on YouTube and all the rest of it. Do you know what I mean? It just absolutely murdered him.
Speaker 1:Well, anyone who's watching this, get them to Google it.
Speaker 2:His name's bigger than mine on there. Yeah, if you do get a chance to Google it. Yeah, go and Google it. Big Phil's War Syria.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. Well, big Phil's War you heard it here on Another Man's Shoes. Go and Google it, get the hits up and put a derogatory so. So I mean, have you had anything else on the tv world?
Speaker 2:have you sort of explored that or did you sort of try and avoid it? No, well then I then moved on the very toppers guy. Um, they, they realized that they, they needed to give me something and they put me on that program. It was a bit of a poison challenge. They put me on that program called the pledge, which was like a debating show, um, and you would pick a subject every week and I always picked a veteran's subject and tried to promote it, and other people on there, you know, included that that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:The trouble for me was they portrayed me as being on the right side of politics, which I'm not really, but they portrayed me that so that they had an argument against these blatant left-wingers, like, do you know what I mean? And they were blatant left-wingers, you know, and I'm like, and so I used to end up in tear-ups with them, you know, verbally, and all sorts of stuff. And yeah, it didn't, although it gave me massive exposure in terms head, like you know, I mean, he's a just a great big thug, like you know, I mean yeah, I mean, that's the problem with tv and everything else they portray what they want yeah.
Speaker 2:And then eventually I say channel four thought they'd done an expose thing on me where I'd taken a boat myself over over the channel and brought back, brought back some people portraying to be refugees, to show how easy it was. They moaned about me, sky stood me down for a bit and then what happened? Then Channel 4 went and did the same thing themselves. It was insane. Do you know what I mean? And I never got an apology or nothing from Sky for not standing by me. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 1:I imagine it's a different environment People. They were shouting was ridiculous, I imagine it's a different environment, people.
Speaker 2:They're so out for themselves. Oh, it's horrendous, it is honking, and if I've ever experienced bullying since I've been an adult, that was one of the biggest places that I've seen it. So was it around. They bully you.
Speaker 1:And then sort of around. This time then was that when you wrote your book.
Speaker 2:You've done a couple of books, have you? Yeah, well, I wrote the book. I wrote the book quite a few years before I got on television born fearless, um. And obviously there was no, no reference to me being in the regiment or anything I did in the regiment in born fearless, other than the fact on the cover it said xsas from children's own to xsas um and beyond, or whatever it was. But uh, that book did quite well. I mean, that was a times bestseller from a complete unknown nobody knew me from adam then and that book did really well. So that got to number four, which, you know, when I've had no teller nobody knew me whatsoever, do you know, I mean, and that book went straight into number four. So that was, that was quite an achievement. It went. It did really well, uh, and it was from there.
Speaker 2:I got picked up, first of all by channel four, and I did that drugs live, where I took a, took a disco biscuit and they put me in a brain scanner and it all went wrong for them because I turned violent and that you know, I mean, and then, yeah, that I say, then I realized that I was quite articulate enough to do television, I could talk, I could hold my own, I was confident enough to stand in front of a camera and I just decided to give it a bash. And then then that's what I said I spoke to my mate, who was a producer with a small company. He then subsequently became a producer with Sky and he introduced me, and the rest is, you know how it happened, but Sky didn't do me any favours in the end, if I'm perfectly honest, and they never really stood by me when things went rough. And yet, ironically, they still have me on the show several times since, when it's suited them.
Speaker 2:So I don't really, you know, I'd like to do some more television work, but I wouldn't touch politics again and if I do anything television wise, it would be, it would be, it would be. It would have to be something positive. Now, do you know what I mean? Definitely, or history, because I love my history, I love history. So I'm working on a couple of things with brucepton at the moment.
Speaker 1:We were talking about him earlier. What a bloke.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, great bloke, and hopefully me and Bruce are going to stick some history stuff together. So yeah, that would be really cool, can you?
Speaker 2:start a movement bring back combat dealers. Yeah, I'd love to be on it. I did it. I mean this COVID thing I don't like to go on about it because I've it's it, but it's, it's. It's put so much stuff on ice. For me at the moment it's unbelievable, cause I did have a little bit. I had a walk on part on combat dealers just for one, for one show, and it never happened because of this COVID thing.
Speaker 1:So oh, guys, we, we won at one. Whatever bid on one year for a day at Combat Dealers with Bruce, Go out on the tanks and do all the shooting. My son was well looking forward to it. Obviously, the Chinese came along and ruined that for us.
Speaker 2:He's got his own parachute regiment museum in his house. It's phenomenal. He's ex-paradise. Yeah, he's ex-paradise. He's got Hitler's toilet and he's also got Churchill's toilet sat next to each other Incredible Both authenticated Hitler's toilet and Churchill's toilet.
Speaker 1:What a bloke, and he's just got everything about him. So, oh, mate, if you can pull that off, that'd be fantastic. See you both together.
Speaker 2:We've got something in the pipeline which we're trying to get off the bat next year. If it that off, that'd be fantastic to see you both together. We've got something in the pipeline which we're trying to get off the bat next year. If it comes off, it will be an absolutely phenomenal show. Put it that way.
Speaker 1:Well, best of luck with that, and I think anyone that's listening to this would certainly be wanting to watch that. So obviously at this point you sort of you've had an interesting upbringing. You know you pretty much hit your the sort of the dizzy heights in the military. You passed all the hardest courses, you've written a book, you've been been around the world, but then ultimately there comes a point where everyone's almost hits a brick wall. We hit a bit of a low. Have you been? Have you? Have you had your struggles that you've sort of had to recover?
Speaker 2:from I had. I had mental health issues, you know, which I never wanted to talk about, and I'll tell you for why. It first started when I was inherited. I had a few things going on. I didn't want to speak about it in case I got RTU'd, and I was actually encouraged not to by quite a few people. All right, so I never spoke about it there. Subsequently it blew up and I ended up going out. You know behavioural, you know ended up getting out early. It followed me into Civvy Street. I didn't think I could talk about my mental health in Civvy Street because I would be unemployable and I wouldn't get a job. All right, so I harbored it. I harbored it. It got to such a state that you know about. Six years ago I ended up smashing my own house to pieces, threatening loads of people, and I ended up in Winchester Prison on remand.
Speaker 2:All right, I'm sat in Winchester Prison. I'm absolutely distraught. Everything's in tatters, all right, everything I've ever done is completely destroyed. I'm sat in Winchester Prison with myself and I just sort of like what I call a come to Jesus with myself. All right, I'm literally like like Don Logan on that. Um, dexy Beast, I'm looking in the mirror going Phil, you fucking idiot. You fucking idiot. Who the fuck do you think? You? Fucking idiot, what the fuck are you? And I'm talking to myself and I'm having this conversation and that's not the first time in my life, I've ever done it and I just work it out myself that you know you've got to turn things around. No matter how this goes, what's the result of this? Pending court case. Whatever happens, this, you know, pending court case. Whatever happens, you've got to sort yourself out and I've literally turned myself around from there.
Speaker 2:I got out on remand. Eventually my lawyer got me out, so I'm remanded now. Um, I got through the court case. It all got dropped, but I had nothing then, nothing at all.
Speaker 2:So there was a lad called tom blakey. He lent me a caravan. I know where to live. He lent me a caravan, right, I got this caravan I've towed into London and my cousin was working on the building site. He says, cuz he goes, bung your caravan on there. He says I'll give you 50 day to 50 quid a day to fill skips and if you sleep there at night, you're the security for the site. So I'm like that yeah, brilliant, awesome. So what I've done was I put this caravan on the building site. I worked a few days. I've got a bit of cash behind me.
Speaker 2:I went down to the charity shop. I bought a couple of suits. All right, I've got a couple of suits, so I'd work all day on this thing. I had no running water, nothing. I used to wash in a bucket right used to wash in a bucket. Get my suit on. I'd run down to the ivy. I'd go all these places in leicester square. I'd meet all these producers. That's how I got myself on the telly right. A total bluff, an absolute bluff, and that was it. So it was just for me. It was my mindset, but my mental health played a massive part in it and I literally sort of like self-cured, if you want my mental health. It was horrendous by talking to myself.
Speaker 1:It is, and I think what you just said then was going to string. A lot of people will be able to relate to that, because it was very much years gone by. Say nothing, keep quiet, just get on with it.
Speaker 2:You couldn't talk about it, you couldn't talk about it and it was the worst thing ever.
Speaker 1:And you know when.
Speaker 2:I did actually talk about it when I came out of prison and I finally went fucking hell. Phil and I spoke to a few people about it, I to a few people about it, I spoke to my missus about it, you know. I admitted there was a problem. I started to look deeper into it. Um, there was a few things that might have triggered it. You know the larium that they've given me, that probably had an effect at some stage and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:But there was mental health issues there and I had to acknowledge it and that was the hardest bit. And once I acknowledged it and opened it up and spoke to other people, that was when the I was in such a rage. You know I could have done anything and it was scary, but it was because I built it up and built it up. So look, now I just encourage people that the biggest thing to me is that if a soldier speaks about his mental health, his position, from where he is, shouldn't be affected. And I'll say you know, if a young trooper in a squadron has got some mental health issues, if he flags it up, it shouldn't mean to say that he's going to get RTU'd, Because if he broke his ankle. As soon as his leg got better, he'd be back in the squadron again. If your mental health flags up and you get better, you should go back to your squadron, and that was what stopped me from talking about my mental health when I was in the squadron.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Too many people are being lost Good guys through mental health and I had problems and I had problems and it was easier for me to just for me to fucking PVR than for somebody to go. I'll tell you what let's bring Phil to one side, let's get this in the open and let's see if we can talk about this and let's sort of it was just easier to let me go.
Speaker 1:That's a broken system, though, isn't it? It's not a fault of yourself. It's the system that's failed you.
Speaker 2:It is. They have failed me and I don't like to excuse. Look, I did do some stupid things. I did get pissed off, I did get in fights and all that sort of stuff, but and I think you know, I took it on the chin when I left.
Speaker 2:I did the honourable thing and all that sort of stuff and it was all about honour. And you know, do the right thing, phil. You know you've done this, you've done that. You need to hand your cards in and all that, and I did that. And I'm thinking, actually I've done the right thing. You've done the fucking wrong thing. You never stood by me. You've never let me know that it I felt because I didn't feel like I could do that, and that, to me, is a broken system. You're right, and I'm not asking for anything. I can't get that. 10 years soldiering back, which I missed out on, which would have been belt-fed operations I can't get anything. All I can do now is try and take what I've learned, take my experiences and hope that I can feed it into the system somewhere where it will make a difference to other people.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think that's what you are definitely doing. I mean, you'll really help shape other people. You know you've got a good following on social media. You've done some some, some great stuff out there. You know, with like the charity work putting on, you did the rumble matches with the sort of UK, the Americans, and you know everything you do it is very positive and upbeat the army cadets, and so I think you've obviously been through some shit times but off the back of that, you're now helping other people, probably unknowingly, that they look up to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know, helping other people actually helps me. You know, I mean, I'll get, I'll get messages from people saying you know, I've watched your fitness videos, phil, and I'm now. I'm now six weeks into my own campaign and I've lost ten pounds or whatever. Do you know what I mean and I like that. That makes me feel really good, do you know?
Speaker 1:Fantastic, do you?
Speaker 2:know what I mean. And the same as the young cadets. I see young kids there, you know, probably in the same sort of like predicament as I was in you know all that sort of stuff. And I'm telling them go on, have a go at it, go on, go on. You might just surprise yourself, son, do you know I mean? Or young lady, do you know I mean you might just surprise yourself. Go for it, set your sights up there. You know I mean, you might land there, but at least you went that way. Do you know what I mean to start off with? And that's it. And I I've read something the other day and I think it's very true and it's it's when you're six years old, if, if somebody said to you what do you want to do, you just said something outlandish like I want to be an astronaut, or I want to be this, or I want to be it would have been immense, all right.
Speaker 2:And then by the time you're 10, you've probably toned that down to a fireman or a policeman or a soldier or whatever. Do you know what I mean? By the time you're 18, you've been told you might just make the checkout in Sainsbury's. Where did that ambition go? It's still fucking there isn't it?
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? Bring that ambition with you, keep it on you at all times. Do you know what I mean? That's what I try and do Always aim for where I want to go and not where I'm told to go. That's totally right, isn't it? You'll never write a book. You'll never write a book a special forces soldier. I've done all of those things.
Speaker 1:Exactly, mate, and you know you've done extremely well. I mean, I think if you'd look back at you know, if your six-year-old self looked at you now, he'd be like fucking hell yeah, I'm smashing it. He'd be happy.
Speaker 2:Just to get on telly he'd be happy, wouldn't he?
Speaker 1:I mean year, yeah, you know. And then the divorce course the year after, yeah, but what a year can't be any stranger in this one. So you know, you never know what happens.
Speaker 2:So where's that sort of?
Speaker 1:take you then. So that sort of brings you up to up to now. So what are you?
Speaker 2:up to these days. Full circle. I'm all about full circle, right, and my my aim in my aim now in life really is to do exactly what I just mentioned alluded to there was that, with what I know and what I've done and where I've been, I'm in a great position now to help other people who haven't been along that road yet. Do you know what I mean? So I've got this role within the cadets where I'm the champion of the ACF. I'm in a great position where I can meet young people, help young people, help young people, encourage adults to help those people as well. I get invited to places like Harrogate to go and speak to young soldiers. I still go down to Limston to visit young Marines and that sort of stuff. Do you know what I mean? I'm in a great position to help people. I'm in a great position to not just inspire them but to say, look, you will have times in your life that things don't always add up. Yeah, but just keep that dream alive. Do you know? I mean, and I think for me my very first interview in the army, um, as a young lad, royal hampshire regiment, I walked into y companies, uh, company commander, a guy called major finclair and he said to me you know, champion, welcome to the battalion.
Speaker 2:And rah rah, rah, rah. And he says where do you see yourself going and how do you see your life panning out and all this shit? I said, sir. I said, look, I want to have a great time in the army. That's what I've joined for. I want to have a great time, I want to enjoy myself, I want finished in the army.
Speaker 2:I said I owe, I owe the system, I owe the system, all right. And he said what do you mean? I said, look, I come from a children's home, I come from a broken home and I've been helped along the way and people have helped me to get to here and people have continued to help me move my career and push me forward. And so when I've taken all that help and I've built myself into the man that I want to be, I want to take it all and I want to put it back where I got it from and I want to spread it around people that are going to need the same stuff that I need now, and that's advice and help and guidance in my life and career. And that's exactly where I am now.
Speaker 1:I think that's really honourable doing that sort of thing. We're looking for that figure, someone we can look to, and we think that we can do that. They've done it, I can do it. We don't want the people, like you said earlier on, just sort of sucking that ambition out of you. We want a positive role model in life.
Speaker 2:And that's exactly what it is now. You're not always going to get things right. You know, I've co, I've been busted, but what I haven't done is is is make the same mistake a hundred times. I've made the same mistake twice, a couple of times, all right, but I've learned and I've pushed forward and I've tried to keep things positive and every time I've been knocked back, I've got up again. Yeah, and that's the way it's been. You know, I mean, and I've always found a reason or right. And, like I say, when it really came on top, when I was sat in that cell in Winchester you know what I mean I looked at myself in the mirror and I debriefed myself.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean that was a turning point then, really massive turning point.
Speaker 2:Massive turning point in how I felt about a lot of things so what are you going to do next then?
Speaker 1:So you're living in Spain. Now looking to head back to the UK.
Speaker 2:I came over to Spain a year and a half ago because there was going to be some filming done here and I've got a good friend here who's got a production company. Unfortunately, you know, brexit isn't doing me any favours. There's no work at the moment with this COVID, so I'm probably going to come back to the UK and I've got a couple of opportunities there. So, with this COVID, so I'm probably going to come back to the UK and I've got a couple of opportunities there. So I should do a few things. But I want to put some quality time into the cadet force next year as well.
Speaker 2:So I'm probably going to do some sort of UK tour with the cadet force, visit as many of them as I can, maybe put a little programme on for them so that I can do some training with them and all that sort of stuff. And basically, you know, just just see where it goes from there. I mean I fancy buying myself a little canal boat if I can find one cheap enough, and just living in a canal boat somewhere. It's all about. It's all about I just want to do simple family stuff, you know. I mean I just want to and, and, and and reach out to the people that that help, that help put me where I am, do you know I mean?
Speaker 1:and put it back into where I got it from I'm sure you will be able to help people and start giving back as such. So I've got a couple of questions for you. Here's one I said to a friend of mine earlier on. I've got Phil Campion coming on tonight. I'm going to have a chat with him. He went oh, big Phil, big Phil, he goes. Ask him about throwing fridges at Somalis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was I did it, I did it oh, it's true one of my, one of my early days on the on the anti-piracy stuff, and I went up there and the lad I was on there with he was he was really ill but he had a bit of a drink thing going on as well and, um, the captain of the ship, he was a total drunk and we ended up we were coming through. Um, oh, where were we? We were, we were down the bottom of the Reds or whatever. You know. You come through Sue's you go down the bottom.
Speaker 2:There you turn left and you're in the Gulf of Aden proper. We were going down there. Anyway, we were around that area and I remember I see two skiffs coming out and I'm like, yeah, yeah, we could have been tagged there and anyway, they get along a bit closer. And we could have been tagged here and anyway to get along a bit closer. And, sure enough, before you know it, there's a few shots being fired and all that sort of stuff. The crew are non-existent, the captain's in his scratcher, I'm up there, I've got the boats in there. The other lad that I'm with is completely zonked. He's gone and we didn't have.
Speaker 2:It was before the days when you had weapons and all that sort of stuff. Anyway, these things come, they're buzzing, they're trying to get on the ship and all that sort of stuff, and we've got the thing cranked up as fast as we can. We've shown it the lee side, we've got everybody we could in the citadel and all that sort of stuff. And the last thing was they managed to hook on to the side of the ship and I'd thrown everything bolts, rockets, flares, we were down to actually hook on. Anyway, he's got this makeshift ladder and he's got it and it's rolling up and down the rails like that and I'm like fucking hell.
Speaker 2:So I run into the bridge and the captain used to have a fridge about yeah big, only a small one. He's got his cokes in it. So I tip the cokes out, just hooned it as hard as I could down the side of the ship and it hit the thing. It snapped it and the hook come off and the boat went back and I've seen his eyes were on stalks he's like Jesus and they just peeled away and left. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Well, that brings it to throwing the kitchen sink at it, throwing the fridge at it Jesus.
Speaker 2:Christ, yeah, but well, fair play, you know, you improvise and adapt it.
Speaker 1:That's it, yeah, so I mean it's been fantastic having you on and I was watching one of your programmes earlier in in lockdown. You were doing like a Phil's review thing on on Instagram where you were reviewing various products, and one of the things we sort of ask all the guests on this show you're free, must have bits of kit if you're going somewhere. Is there three things you have to take with you?
Speaker 2:do you know what? Nowadays I do take my TRX straps everywhere. They go everywhere with me. I've got my battle bag that goes everywhere with me. I've got my battle bag that goes everywhere with me now. So I've always got the capability of doing some fitness and probably my passport, because you never know when you're going to get deployed. You never know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you don't and you're going to do some more fitness programs that guys can follow you on.
Speaker 2:I mean, my personal thing at the moment is is I put loads of weight on, as people can tell. You know, I'm quite out of shape. I'm working on my fitness extremely hard and it's one of those things I've now. I've now documented it from day one, yeah, so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go and see where it takes me, but I won't give up on it and I'll say I've got a lot of people joining in with me now. Next, next year as well, I'll probably do some sort of UK-based thing where people can come and train with me and all that sort of stuff. And that's the plan. The Mike's Gym, the gym I've been using in Marbella superb place. I'll probably put a week with Phil over there at some stage as well. People can come and train there because that is a phenomenal facility.
Speaker 2:And that's it, yeah, so that's it, yeah, so that's, yeah, so that's. You know, a massive. That was all born out of the lockdown, by the way. Um, if I'd have been the lockdown, I'd have probably carried on just scratching about, doing my thing and getting fatter and fatter. So the lockdown, actually the lockdown. Give me a kick up the bum, are you?
Speaker 1:taking a positive out of it. I mean that, that mike's gym. I've seen a couple of the videos you've put on absolutely every time he's. He's got a pretty epic setup up there, hasn't he? It doesn't look like your normal gym. You've got like water crossings and all your bars.
Speaker 2:He's a great bloke number one. He's a great bloke number one. He's a great bloke. I get on really well with him. He's an old London I think he worked. He had a market stall in London. He used to do jet skis. He's into his fitness. He came over here he bought a jet ski shed and then turned it into a gym for himself and then thought I'll tell you what I'll be by and it just grew and grew and grew and grew and he's phenomenally fit. He's a really good guy and we get on. We get on well. So it just, you know, like there's been a few gyms that I've been to which I've absolutely hated. They've usually been these corporate types. But there's two gyms that have stuck to me really uh, the one that I learned the boxing, which was the Peacock in London, which was an absolutely phenomenal gym, and Mike's gym is an absolutely phenomenal gym. And again, they're people that are helping me get what I want out of life. Do you know what I mean? Which is just so cool. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:I think anyone who's obviously listening to this look up that both the Peacock and Mike's gym. If you're in the area, pop in. So obviously, last thing we sort of finish off is you know, try and get sort of a bit of extra exposure for you, what your sort of Instagrams, your handles, your various tags to follow everything's at Big Phil Campion.
Speaker 2:So Insta, facebook, twitter, it's all at Big Phil Campion, yeah. And then, obviously, I've got my own brand, my Born Fearless stuff, which is sold through Forceware. Yeah, that's me really, I've got. Born Fearless is the first part of my life story. Next year who Dares Wins is coming out, which is the second part of my life story. I've got two fictions and a survival guide as well. So there you go.
Speaker 1:I can feel they're going to be a huge success and I think your following is growing and growing and people just enjoy listening to you. You're a down to earth bloke. You've been there, you've seen it, you've lived it and you're very humble and it's been fantastic to hear your journey tonight.
Speaker 2:I'm living the dream right now. I'm doing what I said I was going to do when I started off. Do you know what I mean? So I'm quite happy, you know, and I think it's taken me a long time to get to where I am and there's been a lot of rollercoaster moments and all that sort of stuff, but at the moment, you know, we're rolling it in and I'm actually enjoying what I'm doing. For one of the first times in my life, I feel like I'm doing something that I should.
Speaker 1:I mean properly that's the thing to take from it, isn't it? You're enjoying it and you want to do it. No one's making you yeah well, no, no, it's great well appreciate your time tonight, phil. Thanks for coming on and sharing your story with us and I'm sure everyone's going to really enjoy this.
Speaker 2:Don't forget to send me the link so I can bang them out there.
Speaker 1:I will send you the link. We'll get it all pushed out and then we want to see you next year. We want to see the books, we want to. We want to see you and Bruce, you know, let's just watch your journey continue, mate.
Speaker 2:I really because me and Bruce really get on well with each other. We have a really good laugh to that. We do have a fine laugh, so it would be really cool if I could get something.
Speaker 1:Hope to see it and, um, well, for everyone who's listened to this, if you've got any questions, obviously you can follow big Phil on Instagram and on various other sort of social media platforms. So, uh, drop them a line, you know, get yourself a born fearless t-shirt by the book and, uh, you know, let's just keep helping him live the dream. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Cheers. Cheers buddy, all right.
Speaker 1:That was Big Phil Campion on another man's shoes Brilliant episode. Thoroughly enjoyed talking to him and recording that one. Let's all help him. So Born Fearless, get the book, get the branding, get the T-shirt. Follow him on Instagram, go on Twitter and I look forward to seeing you on another episode.